#Byleth discourse

[problematic-fodlan]

Indeed, they're two different things.

That's not the issue.

The real issue is people having this assumption of Byleth automatically being incapable of ruling because of xyz, when the real reason people like to discredit Byleth as a ruler is because she's not their favorite primary color lord.

-

[raxistaicho]

An ill-fitting throne, like an ill-fitting crown

When I was last playing Three Houses, I was struck again by how small Byleth looks, seated on Sothis's throne:

They just look so fantastically unfitting for the throne.

Female Byleth can't even touch her heels to the ground, and while male Byleth can do that much, the arm rests are too far apart for him to use them properly, and he visibly has to sit so far forward that he can't rest his back against the back of the throne, either.

A pretty common theory is that Sothis was huge when she was alive, and aside from just the sheer size of the throne this is supported by, of all the grotesque things, the Sword of the Creator itself:

It's pretty easy to infer that the serrated portion of the blade was crafted from Sothis's spine. A person's spine generally constitutes 25% of their total height, and the Sword of the Creator is huge, especially compared to Female Byleth:

With Byleth being 5'4'', Sothis could easily be between seven and eight feet tall. She'd easily dwarf everyone else in the game, including Dedue and Nemesis.

Where am I going with this?

Byleth not being big enough to sit properly upon Sothis's throne is symbolic in a way: they're being pressed into a position that doesn't suit them. Just look at how uncomfortable and uncertain they seem, particularly female Byleth.

[butwhatifidothis]

I think the main thing that makes Edelstans' version of Edelgard so annoying is that she ultimately has every ounce of agency stripped out of her, by people who insist that they're "making her grow" into a character they already made her out to be from the start. We get told that Edelgard has this amazing character arc, and then are presented with a Mary Sue with no discernable flaws and/or who makes no substantial mistakes.

This Edelgard is perfect out the box, no discolorations or tears to be seen. She just has a bit of dust, but the doll itself is flawless. And that is, in the end, what ruins her. She’s not prideful and arrogant, she’s not stubborn and narrow-minded, she’s not manipulative and deceitful, she’s not violent and abrasive, she’s not nationalistic and imperialistic, but nor is she fearless and confident, she’s not ambitious and resolute - she has none of her character flaws or boons, because they make her too full of agency. They drive her to choose to do anything; they're not forces outside of her control that make her do things that she would just never, ever do were the WORLD not so broken and flawed.

The few "flaws" Edelstans begrudgingly allow her are only meant to further endear her to the player. She’s childish, but only because she’s oh so traumatized and that should be accepted as who she is and not something to grow out of (nor something that is truly wrong of her to be even in her 20's). She’s self-unaware, but only because the world made her unsure of who she really is, which is a perfect little angel. The only "mistakes" she makes are because others failed her; Byleth and the Black Eagles fail Edelgard in the Holy Tomb, that wasn't her fault, they didn't ensure her that they could be trusted, for example.

Claude and Rhea have flaws - real flaws, that aren't "they just don't wove themselves enuff." Dimitri makes mistakes - real mistakes, that aren't "he twusted the wrong people and got hurt fwom them." They are allowed to misstep and stumble, to steer off of a purely good path due to actions that they chose to make, they get to grow as characters. But any imperfection found in the Edelstan Edelgard is only due to her environment, not her own nature. Narratively, she never does any wrong; anything bad she ever does is really someone else's fault.

She’s just a little flower plucked of all her thorns, safe and easy to pick up and admire, weak, meek and too innocent and pure for this dirty dirty world, coveted by all for her perfection and beauty.

Which is just so... boring? And annoying? That literally no matter what happens to her or what she herself does, it's never a result of Edelgard doing something but something being done to Edelgard? UNLESS it's a purely good action, then suddenly she has all the agency in the world and should be responsible for it? It's so clear that this Edelgard is one that is sanitized of any pesky little flaw that could make people dislike her or like her in the "wrong" way (because liking villains for being villains Is Wrong), and that is ironically the exact reason why she's so insufferable.

Like, it's almost kinda hard to explain why having a character choose to be an asshole is so much more engaging to watch than having a character be entirely reactive UNTIL they can get Good Noodle Stars because.... yeah? Of course? Because there's more meat to bite into whenever a character makes a choice - whether kind or spiteful, whether good or bad - over someone else forcing a character to do something.

"Edelgard believes in imperialism because she has been raised in and agrees with a culture that believes itself to be the rightful 'owner' of the continent due to it being the progenitor country, and she genuinely believes Fodlan would be better if back under this 'glorious' reign of Adrestia, even despite her being around those outside of Adrestia for almost a year" says so much about her AND Adrestia. "Edelgard DOESN'T believe in imperialism, it's just that everyone else is doing so badly that they FORCE her to kill them or otherwise get rid of them" says things about the ones DOING things badly, MAYBE, but all it says about Edelgard is that she Doesn't Like Bad Things. Or, oh so much deeper, it says she likes *gasp* Good Things! How brave, how stunning! And before you can try to say "Well maybe Edelgard went to violence so quickly because she views fear and control to be the best way to force a society into being 'good' over trying to convince people peacefully," the Edelstan Edelgard is already packaged with "Edelgard went to war first because literally everyone MADE her go to war because THEY wouldn't let anything else work."

"Edelgard tried to assassinate Dimitri and Claude at the very beginning of the game because she wanted to make her eventual war go way easier" turns into the infamous "Edelgard was just trying to scare THE TEACHER away to get JERITZA installed in their place, and CLAUDE ruined it by running away; she wasn't ACTUALLY trying to hurt anyone." "Edelgard let Remire be massacred because - like she literally said she would - she was willing to sacrifice her people's lives in service of her higher cause" turns into one of "TWS forced her to be compliant" or "Edelgard definitely didn't know anything because she would have stopped it had she known." "Edelgard directly assisted in Flayn's kidnapping because TWS having more tools to work with means she gets more weapons to fight with" turns into "She was forced to do that." "Edelgard helped hide Kronya among the student populace even as she kidnapped students and mutated them into Demonic Beasts because it will help in giving her Demonic Beasts to work with in the war" turns into, you guessed it, "Edelgard was forced to do that." "Edelgard sent her army and Demonic Beasts onto either her direct Black Eagle classmates or otherwise innocent students to stop them from stopping her from getting Crest Stones to use in her upcoming war"? Oh, a surprise! "She HAD to do that, because OTHER PEOPLE were going to take the Crest Stones if she didn't!"

She was forced to, she wasn't hurting/trying to hurt anyone, she didn't do anything wrong - if her actions lead to people getting hurt and/or killed, those are the exclusive reasons allowed as to why she did it. These reasons being excuses to alleviate her of any accountability, not genuine explanations that still demand her to take accountability.

Meanwhile, Rhea distorted history to keep her and her family safe - which in verse is said to be something she was still wrong to do, and which in verse she ADMITS was wrong of her to do. Dimitri was absolutely willing to torture Randolph because he viewed the guy as less than human and felt him getting such inhumane treatment was justice - which he directly takes accountability for to Randolph's remaining family. Claude weaseled up to Byleth because he felt he could use them for his own ambitions - which he owns up to and grows out of doing. Regardless of context explaining why they did this or that, they did this and that. They own their actions and are responsible for them, no one else. And, you know, because they own their actions, they can, uh. Grow from said actions? Look back on what they did and go "huh, shouldn't have done that, I will choose to not choose to do those actions again"?

Like I'm sorry but you can't choose to not get fucked by literally the entire damn world and that's what makes Edelsue so fucking boring and uninteresting and annoying. All of that meticulous planning Edelgard did for years to enact this war, in this interpretation, boils down to "she didn't do shit, everyone else did, she was just forced to be the fall guy." Any action that isn't squeaky clean in moral whiteness has nothing to do with her agency and that sucks ass

[youngerfrankenstein]

Look. It is 2025 and therefore WAAAAAAAY too late to still be complaining about the FE3H fandom. BUT.

The fact we got a game about an emotionally stunted person, who grew and changed and came out of their shell by interacting with others and learned they had a knack for helping people grow, who learned more about the world they were a part of in a year than their previously isolated existence, who found meaning in leadership and guidance roles, and who ultimately saved a continent no matter the route.

The one in which they are the main character and end up in a leadership role over said continent, where they can help the most people and get to stay in the first place they could call home.

“Well they’re unqualified.” “It’s unfair to them.” “Why?! What do they hope to achieve?” “They should just go back to aimless wandering and killing, it would be better for them.” “It’s dumb and they don’t know what they’re doing.”

Like were you paying attention at all???

[bowbowis]

In a World for Humanity... There's No Need for Gods...

People trying to make out that CF is the bad ending because Byleth loses their godhood really need to learn about context. As Edelgard says in the very same scene, "when humanity stands strong, and people reach out for each other, there's no need for gods." Byleth's loss of divinity isn't a tragedy because because their godhood is, and always has been, redundant.

Byleth the god didn't show Edelgard she could be loved, or help Dimitri find redemption, or teach Claude to trust others; Byleth the person did. Only one person in the game reduces Byleth to their status a vessel for Sothis's power, and that's Rhea, something even she admits she was wrong for doing in her S-Support. Edelgard doesn't weep in the end of CF because she's mourning that Byleth lost the Godess's power, she weeps because she's overjoyed that the person she loves, the part of Byleth that truly matters, survived.

[emblemxeno]

What do you think about Edelgard's popularity in lesbian circles?

I support women's rights and women's wrongs, with the "wrongs" in this case being liking Edelgard /s

But really, I don't mind people liking her so long as they're not trying to claim moral superiority when their fav does textbook villain-politician shit. Besides that, it's all good. Not a lesbian myself, so it's not my place to judge.

[jamberii]

I've been doing a Black Eagles run

[real-fire-emblem-takes]

Byleth is the biggest player-insert in the franchise and not in a good way

They're better in heroes and hopes, tho

!

[luigicat117]

[problematic-fodlan]

Probably Byleth gets ignored in these debates because fandom has this double standard about avatars. They don’t count as characters on their own merits, which conveniently allows people to dismiss Corrin’s gay S ranks or Alear getting their pick of pact ring partners. But at the same time avatar S ranks get treated as the benchmark for a character being canon queer, hence Lyn and Ike get overlooked since they don’t have that feature.

So Byleth being a self insert means they don’t matter as queer, but they enable other characters to be called queer. Yes, it’s stupid.

-

[raxistaicho]

Like a teacher would

There are those who might wonder, "why doesn't Byleth criticize Edelgard for her indirect involvement in the destruction of Remire and the death of Jeralt," and that's a fair question. Let's ask Byleth!

Wow, it's almost like Byleth is consistently portrayed as a patient, understanding, and forgiving person! Like a teacher!

[deathbirby]

I wonder what this could mean...

[cartoonnonsensegirl]

My Fire Emblem: Three Houses Ending Ideas for Byleth

Some may have ships, others not.

Male Byleth

Verdant Wind: Becomes Claude's leading general and advisor. Could also serve as an ambassador to Almyra.

Azure Moon: Same as above, but for Dimitri. I think M!Byleth would go well with Mercedes.

Silver Snow: Becomes Archbishop. Either Mercedes or Flayn is his wife.

Crimson Flower: Can either be a general or an advisor. I'll let you know that I ship Edelgard with Hubert, so a marriage between her and M!Byleth is not on the table for me (and I do really like her character; I just personally can't separate her from Hubert in any way, shape, or form).

Female Byleth

Verdant Wind: May either marry Claude or remain one of his advisors (should Claude make Hilda his queen). Maybe even an ambassador to Almyra. (this one is hard, since Claude x Hilda makes more sense to me, yet I did marry Claude on my first playthrough)

Azure Moon: Becomes Dimitri's Queen.

Silver Snow: Becomes Archbishop. Possibly marries Seteth.

Crimson Flower: I'm still firmly in the Edelgard x Hubert camp, which brings me to my favorite idea: F!Byleth becomes her personal handmaiden/lady-in-waiting who tends to her, styles her hair, designs/makes her clothes, and will eventually become her midwife/nanny.

[pathetic-gamer]

"Dimitri's redemption arc was rushed" "Dimitri's redemption arc is right for the themes and pace of the game" "Dimitri should have had to face even more consequences" "Dimitri is a murderer who doesn't deserve a redemption arc"

okay well I think he should get to kill more. I think he should kill without remorse forever and ever amen. Edelgard too. I think they should get to kill everyone and then each other. And also Claude and Byleth. I hope Byleth dies. I hope they all die, hand in unlovable hand.

[eastgaysian]

What made you mad re: FE3H? Not being able to gaymance Dimitri and Claude is a given but what else?

girl the racism...

[flaynbestgirl]

realising that edelgard is a vriska has finally made it clear to me why i could never get behind her like so many others could lol