#DQM:J

[retphienix]

Strong monsters. Weak monsters. That is only the selfish perception of people. Truly skilled scouts should try to win with their favorites.

[monstrous-m]

DQM:J

Wulfspade Ace / Wildcard

[redphienix]

It's always baffling when I play a game and come away from it with what I feel are very well thought out and easy to see critiques but then reading quotes from 'main stay' reviews that have like... batshit unrelatable criticism to offer.

Specifically I'm playing DQM:J and I'm enjoying myself- but there are definitely parts that feel weak or lacking.

Things like:

"Music is doo doo"

(possibly a console issue? Weaker than previous games, also fuck Sugiyama- remember kids- say it every chance you get :))

"Utilization of story"

(compared to previous entries, it's just not present overall and there aren't fun smaller stories per island like older titles did per zone. This isn't a complaint of 'quality' of story, the series traditionally had light story- it's just kinda ignored almost entirely just like the first game but the second game handled story so well so??? a step backwards)

"Slow combat"

(Due to full 3D engine change slowing things down without lowering the inherit grind which means it's noticeable. Having the same high grind amount as the older games but adding load times and flashy long animations makes it more of a slog)

And the review quotes on wikipedia are like "It's a pokemon clone" alright, expected, next "Scouting is tricky" WHAT???? "Camera angles in combat are annoying" WHAAAAAAAAAAAT?

Like, there are things to critique!!!! TONS!!!! THIS GAME IS UNDENIABLE A STEP FORWARD FOR THE SERIES IN A LOT OF WAYS THAT STRUGGLED TO FIND FOOTING ON ITS INITIAL GO!!!

SCOUTING???? THE SYSTEM THAT SIMPLIFIES RECRUITING TO A BRAIN DEAD BABY LEVEL OF SIMPLE??? TRICKY?????

Scouting is literally "Press the scout option and if you're stronger than the enemy you might recruit them :) We even show you the % chance!"

TRICKY????

And the camera angle thing is just such a bizarrely empty critique too.

Anywho I wanted to yell about it because "Scouting is tricky" is bizarre, it's like saying "Pokemon has a "Bag" option in combat, I found this very confusing"

I mean, clearly that's why I'm here, I just browsed wikipedia and then thought "That's stupid. I wanna yell about that being stupid" and here we are :) lol

To clarify for my own sake: The battle camera is flawed- it swaps angles a lot so if both sides are using similar monsters it can be hard to read- but it's a problem like once every 3 hours of gameplay, and it's easy to see the result of combat each round so it never really becomes detrimental so it's hardly a "top of my review" critique in the face of much more weighty issues.

[retphienix]

Wait wait wait, I gotta harp on this because it's a good thing!

So Joker 1 had music that dragged on me so much I had to mute it, which I found especially noticeable because the GBC games had wonderful chiptune and Dragon Quest as a series has recognizably good music.

Here's an example of what I think is the absolute worst of the soundtrack:

Like it just sounds out of tune, and maybe that's the point, but it's fucking bad on the ears so who cares.

The best tunes were the ones that most closely resembled their initial versions (since DQ regularly recycles tracks) but even then, this isn't how I'm gonna want to listen to any of these songs.

And to be fair, this is the WORST they have, most of the songs are just... boring, or minorly unpleasant- or just forgettable.

And I gotta be honest, if it isn't terrible it really is just "Here's the town theme from DQ1, again, with no real improvements or new soundfont, we just snatched it from like DQ7 or something shut up."

Now follow that with like, this fucking banger classic of Dragon Quest being revamped for Joker 2:

Like so many tunes in DQM:J are meant to cover vast landscapes and just poke holes in your eardrums before they even get to loop. But here's one of my fave oldschool tracks with a fresh coat of paint, that fuckin' rocks man :D

Or this remix:

These are delightful!

WHAT THE HELL!

WHY DID JOKER 1 SOUND THE WAY IT DID? WITH ITS ""HIGHLIGHTS"" BEING THE MOST BAREBONES TRACKS?

THIS IS GOOD!!!!

And just to point at something that I don't recognize as a remix (pretty sure it's wholly unique) here's another track from J2 that's got some feeling behind it and isn't just bleh like J1's tracks.

J2 has better music than J1 I rest my case.

[retphienix]

I will say it was really interesting to finally play DQM:J after owning it for so long and being a fan of the GBC games since childhood.

I was kinda hoping it'd end up being a hidden in plain sight gem but ah well.

I'm glad I played it, I'll probably play a tiny bit of the post game just to enjoy breeding some new mons.

But oh buddy is that a mediocre game that just made me further appreciate those GBC games, especially DWM2.

Though seeing what DQM:J brings to the table- I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest by someone claiming it's a fave of theirs, so that's nice too :)

[retphienix]

What a pretty meaningless part of the story that was, eh?

Like, was me being a spy relevant ever? Nope.

If I was never involved with any of that then I would still be in the contest- talking with the contest manager dude- meeting the incarnus- ALL of this.

My orders included "Talk to the manager dude to distract him so we can steal some stuff" which could have just been a side note as I naturally talk to him- or I could have been manipulated into unknowingly playing along into that plan.

Alright.

Anyway.

[retphienix]

I Have A Lot To Say So I'll Read More This.

The short of it?

I'm glad I played Joker- I played it because I wanted to know how DQM evolved when it reached the DS and I got my answer.

It's mediocre. Not bad exactly, I enjoyed playing it, it adds some REALLY appreciated features to the DQM series and if you were playing it at release it had online play which plays well with the post game content which I haven't touched by the time I wrote this:

-but there are some engine/console specific things that made it a drag and there are some parts of the game that are just weaker than the previous games which is amusing since the previous games were simple GBC titles.

And finally, I don't really recommend playing through Joker 1. Can't speak on the sequels, but Joker 1 was a pretty middling experience for me so I'm the wrong person to get a positive recommendation from.

And since the opportunity presents itself: If you like monster RPGs and haven't tried it- go emulate Dragon Warrior Monsters 2 for the GBC, it's really good and also if you emulate you can fast forward the GBC era grind if that's your taste- really a win all around.

On to my rambling:

I debated on writing, rewriting, rewriting, and better presenting my thoughts on this game and the series as a whole but nah, Joker ain't getting that, I'm ramblin'- lol

I will split it slightly between "The ending" and "The game as a whole" though.

Ending:

1:07 - This is slightly a 'game a a whole' thing but honestly it's funny to me that you unlock a permanent repel in this game by doing the main quest. I entered this dungeon feeling strong enough to beat the game, so I just avoided 90% of encounters entirely.

5:00 - I genuinely got a laugh out of Sparkpug's whole deal in this finale. Not story wise, that's fine, no complaints- I mean that Sparkpug is clearly built to be a monster that can carry an ineffective team. He's clearly meant to be bred a few times and a god tier member of a potentially inexperienced player's team- but I literally never used him after the intro.

So during this scene it's supposed to be like "I'm a demi-god monster, you can't possibly beat me" and I'm thinking "Dude, you're like level 10 and shit tier, you can't win, this is hilarious."

Obviously it's a real boss fight and not 'face the monster you once had' but I was having fun roasting him behind the scenes of this recording.

45:00 - What an entirely unexpected change of pace.

Like, I had it spoiled for me by a screenshot that Dr. Snap becomes a monster or something- but I thought maybe he was always a monster or something, and also I got a bad look at him.

HE TURNS INTO A BODY HORROR BEAST, THAT'S NUTS.

Genuinely a highlight of the game.

52:00 - I fucking laughed what a meaningless exchange where the payoff is saying "He was stupid!", it's honestly just silly and dumb but not necessarily bad just dumb lol

55:00 - Not a great 'you won' victory lap. Like at all. Kinda feels like they should have just made this all a cutscene where I appear back at town and see that Solitaire is the leader now etc etc.

I kinda don't understand why it's a victory lap at all? Because all anyone says is "They picked a weird successor to Snap >:(" or "Snap went to the island? I bet he was stopping the calamity :)"

If you have 2 lines of dialogue prepared, maybe don't make a victory lap???

1:00:00 - What a fucking stupid payoff lol

Like sincerely, Solitaire does NOTHING the entire game! She's meaningless from start to finish! And the 'surprise' is that she's the new commish??? And she got the position because she's a rich spoiled brat??? Like LITERALLY that's why????????

What a stupid fucking ending lol

Now her proposed evolution of the contest is fair enough, I mean it's childish as hell, but to be fair- more contests is a fine idea especially since prior games and this game demonstrated the public's interest in watching monster fights. And the goal being to fight her as the final fight is fucking egotistical and stupid- BUT- it does play into the fact that the player didn't get to fight her the whole game so it's whatever?

1:03:00 - This is both the best and worst lol.

This game has no story, like at all, it's fucking empty front to back, and only explodes with like- 1 event at the very end.

This moment is a montage of memorable moments with your 'best friend' Sparkpug. It's cinematically very nice to be honest! Even includes a moment I don't remember at the arena which probably didn't happen lol.

So visually it's cool- I dig seeing the camera zoom out as we run across the beach, and the flashback moments intersplice over us making our way to the scout memorial- that's very well done.

The content is empty lol

As I said there's no story, these moments are nothing lol

And that's that.

All said the ending was a very nice challenge to face with my team- I had to abuse items like mad but I MADE IT! It was a GOOD fight.

The rest I've already said.

On to the game as a whole:

I have issues with this game, but there's good too. It's really like 4 steps forward 6-7 steps back it's weird, it's really weird.

Positives are neat!

> First and foremost- TRAITS!

Monsters in Dragon Quest Monsters have always had a problem with keeping their identity for long. The way I'd explain it to an outsider to the series is that Monsters DO have special stat variance and intended movesets and all that jazz- but the breeding system completely and entirely destroys that relatively early into the game.

While a monster might normally have really high defense and low other stats while knowing buffing magic- breeding, EVEN UNINTENTIONALLY, will have that same monster come out with 9 billion attack and all ice magic.

Monsters in DQM have a habit of becoming canvases for the breeding effects rather than their own mons- and this is undeniably a downside. It makes the game feel unique, it doesn't 'hurt' it, but when by mid-game monsters are more easily identified as sprites rather than strengths and weaknesses or even types (family) it's a slight downer on the series.

Traits fix this a lot by making every specific monster have unchangeable traits which offer things like "immunity to x type of damage" or "higher crit chance"- it's small, but it gives each monster more identity.

> Second and secondmost- SKILLS!

The older games didn't use trees, it used each individual spell as a potential pass on during breeding.

Each monster could have 8 spells, and when you breed two monsters you pass on all 16 spells to the offspring (they don't learn them all at once, they learn them as they level up) as well as the natural spells the monster would learn by level up.

So in the older games it is really easy to end up with a refined and overpowered list of 8 spells on each of your monsters.

Now spells are tied to Skill trees and your monsters can have 3 skill trees total (which are passed on as OPTIONS when breeding).

All to say skills do a lot for removing the "Master of all, weakness of none" spell lists that the older games made trivial to make, now you have to limit your builds and be more specialized- also they added skills like "Attack up" to add more variance to a build- instead of having spells you might just have high stat buffs as skill trees.

Overall I think Skills are an improvement because coupled with Traits it makes each monster feel much more specialized and unique and less like a sprite with no identity.

> Breeding is improved.

This is very much because of skills and traits- again- but also the system is just improved in general. Instead of being told "That's a monster you haven't had before!" and judging your decisions based on the name of the offspring breed, now you get to see a small sprite of the resulting monster to help you decide- ALSO instead of getting 1 result for every combo (to the point where you have to back out and choose Monster A + Monster B and Monster B + Monster A as separate options), you now get up to 3 results to pick between for every breeding opportunity.

It's just better.

> The engine is impressive.

At least to me. This is a DS title using (from what I read) a rework of the DQ8 PS2 game's engine- it certainly looks like it.

Combat models are nice, using moves looks nice, overworld exploration looks nice- it looks nice.

Now for some negative and general nonsense- all of which is more often than not 'weird'.

> I gotta be unfair and say "The Story" first and foremost.

DQM 1 and 2 are not intense story games. They aren't.

But they both knew how to handle their story well for what they wanted to tell, I can and will praise both for their narratives because they know what they are and do it well.

DQM:J does not. It's fucking bad.

Basically: The overall story doesn't exist- you're told to be a spy, but that comes up 1 time towards the end of the game and LITERALLY doesn't matter at any other moment INCLUDING the one time it comes up.

You have NO meaningful objective from the start up until near the end of the game. You show up and have no goal- so you get told to get some crystals with no meaning behind it (not even a lie because they are clearly evil- not even a lie to motivate you! NO MEANING IS PRESENTED! JUST DO IT! TO DO THE CONTEST I GUESS! WHY? SHUT UP!)

So 90% of the game time you're not doing anything meaningful. So what about the islands? Any small narratives to keep things moving?

NO!

NOT AT ALL!

So you go 90% of the game having no real objective, just kinda wandering forward mindlessly- and then the game suddenly goes "Oh! Guy who seemed sus! He's evil! He's gonna unleash the calamity that you were 'kinda but not directly' working towards with your dog! You know, that plot point that's kept vague and paid 0% attention to the entire game? Yeah it's happening! Aaaaand you're done! GG!"

Basically there's just nothing going on in this game, it's all background noise until the last 10% of the game. And that's lame.

DQM1 had a light story- but from the very intro cutscene you have a clear objective which makes every action you do seem relevant as you are working towards that goal.

From the start of the game you know "My sister is gone! The king says a magic wish can get her back! I'll go do that!" and then you do!

DQM2 has a much better story!

You have a goal from the start (The kingdom is physically dying and you have to save it by getting a new plug!) AND it has stories for each world you visit!

THAT'S MILES BETTER! THIS GAME COULD HAVE DONE THAT FOR THE ISLANDS!

Anywho. Story is lacking and empty and lame especially when DQM2 has a similar format but does every part better- you have a clear objective you're working towards AND side stories to keep the light narrative moving!

WTH!

The spy plotline doesn't matter! It could have been used to build suspicion on who's the good guy!

The islands are so empty of story!

DQM2 has a fun mix on how a rival character works which makes every world interesting to see how they get involved!

This game has a rival that does NOTHING!!!!!!!!!

It's just such a step back from the previous games, it's weird to see DQM 1 land a solid simple story and DQM 2 build a great format to expand the story going forward- and then DQM:J just slams its head into the dirt and wipes out.

> Game's slow.

The engine switch is a good thing overall, but it makes combat slower (a lot), adds loading screens to combat (primarily), and they didn't bother speeding up the grind from previous games.

Because of the grind still existing which isn't a problem in and of itself- the game becomes SLOW AS HELL because the engine makes that grind take longer.

Also world exploration is slow which is to be expected when moving from 2d to 3d, but this is countered by adding things to the world to find or do- and Joker tries but it's still noticeable. The world exploration isn't a problem, it just stands out alongside the combat being slow as hell.

The engine change was a great thing- but it feels like they should have put more work into speeding up combat to counter the slowdown of load times and flashy animations.

A GOOD WAY TO FIX THAT MIGHT BE XP!

> Music ain't great in my opinion.

DQ has amazing music. This game has some weak renditions in my opinion. The CELL HQ theme song is a pretty good poster child for the worst there is, but just in general even the better music is lacking compared to the chiptunes of the GBC or the better mixes of the main series.

Maybe it's unfair, it's a DS game, I don't know, I just know I ended up just muting most of the game because it didn't sound great. I played the GBC games OSTs instead for a large portion of my playthrough. I listened to videos instead for the bulk of the game.

It's just not pleasant to me, sorry to say.

> XP!!!!!!!

I'm being a spoiled ass on this but yeah!

XP SUCKS IN THIS!

There aren't good placed to grind until you beat the game! (apparently)

The first level blatantly has too low xp which makes you grind before you can tackle the boss of the island- and the late game has you mindlessly grinding low xp rewards in order to be ready to face the final boss.

It's WEIRD!

Why is it so low!

> Tech is weird!

I could ramble on this alone but here's the short version:

DQ has a unique fantasy world aesthetic that each game has explored in its own way. It's basically "swords, magic, monsters, and charm- things feel light but aren't afraid to get scary sometimes :)"

This game... doesn't.

This game has fuckin' tech watches, jet skis, TOWER PCS????

This ISN'T dragon quest on a world building level.

It's like, contemporary modern world but with slimes.

And that could be good I guess, but it feels so fucking weird to see PCs right alongside swords and axes and a dracky.

Like... why?

It's a poor aesthetic according to my tastes. Maybe I'm an ass for that. The tech is weird.

All to say, in a poor rambling "I gotta get this out of me" kinda way, is Joker was fine.

I enjoyed breeding. I enjoyed seeing the engine. I enjoyed the unique additions like a 'hero monster'.

But I also had to grind mindlessly on a slower game.

I had to endure a story that forgot to show up until the very end.

I sat there thinking about replaying the older ones the whole time.

It was fine.

It's mediocre.

I'm glad I played it.

I'm done now :)

[retphienix]

Alright, I beat the main game of Joker.

Just because I missed doing it because it feels like a sort of catalogue of the event- I just recorded a big chunk of that final dungeon and the story up to the credits, that'll just be uploaded probably tomorrow with closing thoughts which I might have so many that I make a read-more x.x

But before all that I wanted to say in no uncertain terms, in a text post someone *might* see.

Joker ain't a bad game. But if you played DWM 1-2 and thoroughly enjoyed them and how 2 built on 1, maybe uh, maybe don't bother with Joker. To clarify I mean Joker 1- I do not know how Joker 2 and 3 hold up in the slightest- maybe I'll play those some other time to sate that curiosity.

I enjoyed my time with it, but I'll be crystal clear, I did not enjoy it as much as either GBC outing and beating it just made me think "Man, I wouldn't mind replaying 1 or 2 instead of this."

It's flawed, and in weird ways. There are sublime additions to the monsters themselves which I'll go on about tomorrow, but it really REALLY feels like a step back in a lot of ways- some of which being positives of the GBC games that you might not even realize were important until they are lacking in this one.

It's a mediocre game. Hell, I think that's the word for it.

I can't really say it's disappointing because I didn't come in with high or low expectations, I was optimistic but not expecting the world- I got plenty for what I hoped for.

It's Mediocre.

Word of the day there.

Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker for the Nintendo DS is Mediocre, and that kinda sucks because DWM and DWM2 are still, to this day, very interesting entries in the sub-genre of monster RPGs- both of which being personal favorites with 2 being one of my all time favorites for the genre as a whole!

So again: If you are familiar with the GBC games, maybe don't bother with Joker- and if you're looking at Joker as a newcomer to the series (for whatever reason, it's 2021 as of this post so who's looking at Joker?) then I would personally recommend trying Dragon Warrior Monsters or Dragon Warrior Monsters 2 (Cobi or Tara's quest) for the GBC- and I would specifically recommend playing them through emulation because in a modern context they are still quality games but do have some grind to them that a fast forward option would entirely eliminate.

Give THOSE games a try, maybe not this one.

I mean honestly I say 1 and 2 and I stand by saying both are worth exploring, but hell, if you want quality that trumps this game- try 2. Just try 2, it's so much better in a lot of interesting ways, I mean just the way it frames itself similarly with a handful of zones (like the islands) but gives each zone a GOD DANG STORY makes it immediately less mindless and more interesting.

Also Squeenix stop being horrible shitters and release the remasters of DQM and DQM2 in the west- just toss those fuckers on the switch and call it a day, it's a crime that I can't play those games.

/But maybe not for long since I believe I saw that the english patch for DQM2 remaster is out and I'll gladly play that/

Anyways that's my PSA before the finale post.

DQM:J is kinda mediocre. But it definitely has some ideas and improvements to the series that I liked a lot. More on that tomorrow, go play DWM2. That's all.

[retphienix]

OOOOH.

I read this and thought "No, this is old news, he isn't on Fert or Fern island"

He's on infern island, probably behind that big door I couldn't interact with.

And sure enough.

[retphienix]

Oh that clears things up :P

[retphienix]

New day new team.

We have Large, LARGE, and Beetroot.

Still the same roles really, I feel pretty happy with the "Double attacker but one uses at least one form of AOE spell" + "healer" deal.

I wouldn't mind expanding more towards the kind of thing I'd do in the older games- but the skill system really lets me specialize quite a bit more while also making it a lot harder to be 'everything' lol.

My usual would be "Attacker with all good attack skills and high physical" "Mixed user who has buffs, debuffs, some disrupt, and some AOE spells with high wisdom" "Healer with buffs and heals and a metric ton of mp"

It kinda feels like I'm tunnel visioning the wrong thing but I have to admit- while I COULD have an attacker with cool attack options- the literal stat raising Attack skill is too tempting to stack like crazy.

Why have creative spells on my attacker when he could just HIT HARD REAL GOOD lol

[retphienix]

I... HATE this?

Like COME ON MAN.

I shouldn't hate it this much but I really do is the thing?

So let me explain a 'little' bit.

Here's a small collection of observations around this:

> XP is terrible in this game. It's not THE WORST, but prior entries were more welcoming with giving you XP if memory serves.

> The hardest zone I can enter in the game right now offers roughly 210 xp per "quick to farm" fight (if it's 3 enemies) which is "FINE" but "LOW", it also has a small chance to include a metal slime for a sick 1k which is reasonable.

> Early on this island teases you and says "There is a metal slime section of this island~ But only for end game grinding! Come back then!"

So here's the gist, xp sucks, this island offers a solution, but the devs decided to make it.... tedious as all fuck?

And like, I KINDA get it? Metal farming is a win button I guess, but previous games didn't hide from giving you reasonable XP? The main DQ series often has dungeons with TONS of metabble to farm?

Why's it hidden behind so much tedious BS in this one????

So here's what's happening:

I show up, they tell me to do a tedious mini-game which was neat in the main 'plotline' but seems entirely out of place at end game, I have to run out and kill 15 slimes who die in one hit but sometimes use skills to stay alive, alright.

I do this, I get 2:30 in the metal area (including time in combat). Neat!...

They can still run away. Meaning this is worthless unless I stack metal slash skills and even then it's a lot of busy work before I even get to farm so?

Oh and what's this! The busy work gets HARDER LONGER EACH TIME? 16 now? NO.

This is stupid!

Anyways, fuck that then, I was excited to farm some xp and breed some more and then tackle the contest. Guess I'm not grinding effectively and it's back to 210 xp island for me. I don't like this.

[retphienix]

Would ya look at that, I think that means I've visited all the main islands now.

This one has some tougher fights, as expected, so it's a prime spot to grind a bit while exploring before tackling whatever the contest has in store for me :)

Also this:

[retphienix]

Ran into some memorable "faces" :) I always loved Goopi a ton :D er, Muddy Hand.

As for "Winky" I honestly recognize him more for being a monster I usually breed by accident when I'm trying to get one of my (many) favorite monster designs-

Good 'ol Darkeye, not to be confused with another favorite-

Anyway.

Goopi is a good monster and I want to get plenty of him :) But I'm a little low on damage to reasonably recruit him, so I'm mostly grinding instead.

I think in the older games breeding two Goopi got you a Golem? Maybe you needed a certain 'level' for that, like trying to breed King Slimes.

I might see if that's true here too.

[retphienix]

Aw man. I got excited because I slammed my ill-prepared team into a wall until I won S rank... but then he hits me with the "X RANK TIME!" speech and I know I can't take that on.

For gags I tackled it- made it to round 2 and fell flat on my face, ah well.

Back to the story instead lol

The commish left a breadcrumb trail of witnesses leading me to my stomping ground on Fert island- and to Jacques who tells me there's a secret jetty that leads back to the HQ from the start of the game (where we're heading yada yada yada).

Oh no... I just realized this means I might have to listen to that terrible music again.

I really don't like the HQ music... if we're lucky it's been replaced with some darker theme because of what's going on- man I hope so.

[retphienix]

Man, magic regeneration is incredibly useful.

Anyway, now he's a little dragon guy. Not nearly as bad as the ugly chicken, but still not great.

I guess there's one more shrine? We'll figure that one out hopefully before the contest :)