#Fix and Flip

[wauln]

[ DJ Envy Subpoenaed For Alleged Ponzi Scheme ]

[fixandflippers]

Fix And Flippers

Fix and Flippers are always looking for investors for trust deed investments.They work with individuals, corporations, pension plans, or IRAs. They are experts at matching private investor funds with low risk, high yield, secured by a hard asset and solid loan opportunities. They have solid systems in place that allow investors to earn between 8%-13% per annum, compared to the low-interest rates currently being offered by banks. Fix and Flippers has developed a relationship with many such brokers, mortgage companies, and lenders worthy of a referral.These lenders and mortgage companies have many years in the business and have vetted for their reputations as closers and being a preferred lender among the industries elite. Their referral sources are loyal and provide steady repeat business that affords them an overflow of business.

[foresightproperties]

In the fast-paced world of real estate, timing is everything.

[unitedstatesrei]

Turning Flips into Freedom with Debt for a Life of Wealth and Wisdom with Nathan Turner

Key Takeaways Note investing offers a highly flexible and passive alternative to traditional property ownership. Performing loans can provide consistent income and resilience in uncertain markets. Understanding creative finance opens powerful new options for both agents and investors. United States Real Estate Investor The REI Agent with Nathan Turner https://youtu.be/IqNSdPYXN38 Follow and subscribe to The REI Agent on social Facebook Instagram Youtube .cls-1fill:#fff; Linkedin X-twitter United States Real Estate Investor It's time to have an investor-friendly agent on your team! It's time to have an investor-friendly agent on your team! United States Real Estate Investor Discovering a New Frontier in Real Estate When most people hear “real estate,” they think about houses, rentals, or maybe the occasional flip. But in this riveting episode of The REI Agent, Mattias unlocks an entirely different strategy with note investor Nathan Turner, a strategy so overlooked, it might just be the secret sauce to long-term wealth and freedom. Nathan doesn’t own the properties. He owns the paper—the mortgages themselves. And in doing so, he’s created a system that’s not just lucrative but shockingly flexible in a world ruled by rigid banks and slow institutions. “Just keep going. There’s so much opportunity and so much to learn.” This conversation reveals how investing in notes isn’t some risky gamble; it’s one of the oldest, most reliable wealth-building tools ever created. In fact, it’s biblical. Literally. From Frustration to Fortune: Nathan’s Backstory Nathan Turner’s journey started like many investors, in the chaos of flipping houses during the mid-2000s boom. He bought properties across Canada, sleeping on floors with a tool bag and a dream. But when the market turned, he got burned. What came next? A powerful pivot. “I didn’t even know what I was doing was called note investing.” After accidentally creating seller-financed notes during a rescue mission for overvalued Midwest properties, Nathan found himself in a niche no one was talking about. He wasn’t just selling homes—he was creating income streams. And soon enough, he realized something profound: "If you buy the debt, you control the asset without the headache of ownership." Why Notes Might Be the Ultimate Passive Income Vehicle Nathan walks through how he shifted from buying non-performing loans to acquiring performing ones, notes that bring in steady monthly payments. The returns? Consistent. The effort? Minimal. “This is the mailbox money of all mailbox monies.” With his fund targeting a 12% yield, Nathan explains how investors can participate passively, especially through a self-directed IRA. And unlike big banks, he’s willing and able to get creative when borrowers fall behind. “Because I bought the note at a discount, I have the flexibility to modify it. Big banks can’t do that.” For agents and investors who have felt the frustration of rigid underwriting or narrow lending boxes, Nathan’s approach is a breath of fresh air. Creative Power: When You Control the Terms Mattias shares his own personal seller-finance deal—a hybrid solution tailored to his parents and a unique property. The beauty of the transaction wasn’t just the numbers; it was the flexibility. Nathan agrees. He’s seen it time and time again. “There's all kinds of flexibility here. Let’s figure it out.” Whether it’s reducing monthly payments, adjusting the timeline, or even increasing the interest rate, owning the note lets you play with the rules. It's real estate on your terms. And the cherry on top? If you ever want to exit a deal, Nathan, or someone like him, is ready to buy your note. No refinance required. The Market Is Shifting. Are You Prepared? Nathan doesn’t sugarcoat it. He’s seeing signs: rising defaults, increased stress in the short-term space, and the waning impact of COVID-era bailouts. But he isn’t worried. Why? Because his investments are protected by discounted debt and cash-flowing notes.

“Nothing is recession-proof, but we’re definitely recession-resistant.” His advice to listeners is simple but profound: prepare for the worst-case scenario first. If the numbers still work, you’ve got a deal. And when asked about the risks of note investing? “We know exactly what the return is the moment we buy the note.” No guessing. No waiting. No wild projections. A Timeless Opportunity That’s Hiding in Plain Sight Most agents don’t know this strategy exists. Even fewer understand it. But that’s exactly what makes it such an unmatched opportunity. “Literally, you can go back in the Bible and find verses about buying and selling debts.” Nathan Turner isn't just investing; he’s preserving a timeless system of wealth building. Whether you're an agent looking for better investment vehicles or someone chasing passive income, this episode is a masterclass. The Final Wisdom: Just Keep Going Nathan closes with a message that speaks to every entrepreneur, agent, and investor grinding through the ups and downs: “Sometimes you have to learn it the hard way. I did. But that’s what makes you better. Just keep going.” And if you're ready to learn more? He’s not selling a course. He’s running a conference. He’s building a community. And he’s proving that note investing might just be the smartest path to a bold and balanced life. Because in this corner of real estate, it's not about doors, it’s about dollars delivered monthly with the grace and wisdom of someone who’s been through the storm and came out with a strategy. This isn’t hype. It’s The REI Agent way. Stay tuned for more inspiring stories on The REI Agent podcast, your go-to source for insights, inspiration, and strategies from top agents and investors who are living their best lives through real estate. For more content and episodes, visit reiagent.com. Related Articles Therapy You Didn’t Know You Needed (Holistic Wisdom for Real Estate Professionals) From For Sale Signs to Life Design (How The REI Agent Transforms Real Estate Into Holistic Wealth) Achieving Holistic Wealth and Success Through Real Estate (Insights from The REI Agent) Partnering with Investors (How Real Estate Agents Can Exponentially Maximize Profits) United States Real Estate Investor Create healing and connection within yourself, your family, and your community. Create healing and connection within yourself, your family, and your community. United States Real Estate Investor Contact Nathan Turner Earnest Investing United States Real Estate Investor Mentioned References Invest in Debt by Jimmy Napier United States Real Estate Investor Transcript Welcome to the REI Agent, a holistic approach to life through real estate. I'm Mattias, an agent and investor. And I'm Erica, a licensed therapist. Join us as we interview guests that also strive to live bold and fulfilled lives through business and real estate investing. Tune in every week for interviews with real estate agents and investors. Ready to level up? Let's do it. Welcome back to the REI Agent. Your friendly host Mattias here. We had Nathan Turner on the show today. Nathan is a note investor and he has a fund that you can potentially invest in if you're interested. I think it's a really interesting way of diversifying maybe if you're into that syndication or fund to funds phase of life. But yeah, I think with anything that comes to investing and learning your trade, your business or your finances in general, I think it's just good to have more information to kind of make a better decision about where you can kind of allocate your funds. So this is certainly something that you could do within a IRA, a directed IRA. He has something that you could, a contact that could help you do that with. But yeah, I think it's interesting. It wasn't a topic I knew as much about. So it was a good conversation for me to have. So I hope you also learn from this and I don't just look naive. But it was, yeah, like I said, it was a good conversation.

I mean, I'm gonna keep this one short since it was a great conversation and don't wanna take up all your time with my blabbering. So without further ado, here we have Nathan Turner. Welcome back to the REI Agent. I have the honor of having Nathan Turner here in the podcast today. Nathan, thanks so much for joining us. Pleasure to be here, thank you. Nathan, tell us a little bit about your niche first and then let's kind of get into how you got there. Yeah, so I know you're specifically targeting real estate investor agents and people who are getting in from that direction. So mine's a little bit different. It's real estate related, but it's not exactly real estate. So I'm buying residential mortgages, loans, contracts for deed, land contracts, whatever you wanna call them in different states, but essentially loans against property. That's what I'm buying all over the country. So that's my niche. It happens to be secured by real estate, so that's the real estate piece of it. Sure. Okay, well, we definitely had lenders on the show as well. So that's not too far off. But before we dive into the nuances of that, let's kind of get into how you got started in real estate in general or in this space. Sure. Yeah, I got started in real estate in the heyday, I wanna say, 2005, six, where everything was going so well and it was really easy to make some money off of real estate and it was great. Timing was perfect. I started doing fix and flip. I live in Canada, so I was living in Montreal. All the houses I was flipping were in Saskatoon. So just to give you some context, Montreal is right above Vermont. Saskatoon is just straight north from Eastern Montana. So clear cut across the country, but I would buy it with the help of a realtor in town there and I would fly out with my suitcase full of tools and a sleeping bag and sleep on the floor, just work like crazy for 14, 16 hour days for a week and bang out whatever I could. Mostly cosmetic, I wasn't doing anything too crazy. Because the market didn't demand it and so it was easy enough just to clean it up and then resell it for a really nice profit. And again, like I say, the market was a huge help in that. Honestly, I could have just bought it, waited a month and resold it for a profit back in those days. Yeah, I heard of people doing that, actually. Yeah, yeah. I had a guest on my show, he got burnt from it. But yeah, he was basically just doing that, just sitting on it for a little bit and selling it. Maybe a year. Maybe there was a year lease kind of situation. Anyway, keep going. Yeah, yeah, so I did that for a couple years and then just as the market turned, I got hung with one property and it was my last one. I only did half a dozen or so, eight, seven or eight, something like that. But it was this very last one and I didn't know very much about real estate and so I ended up renting it out because that's what you do, of course. If you can't sell it, you rent it and so I did that. But it was one property, one residential door basically in the middle of town, not a very nice neighborhood and no volume, it was one property. So I could find one guy in this city, small, small cities, 200,000 people but prairie town, very sleepy. There was one guy that I could get to take care of this property and he was terrible. He was absolutely awful where every single month I'd have to call him up and be like, hey man, so did we get paid? Like what's going on? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, I just gotta do some accounting, I'll get this to you. And they did and for the most part, people paid and it was fine but every time we did have turnover, it was actually cheaper for me to hop back on a plane with my suitcase full of tools and go fix it up and then rent it out to the next person. I was like, I don't know, man. This is a lot of work. I don't know, I don't really care about this. Do you still own it? No, we ended up finally selling in 2009, I think it was. Okay,

but was it long enough to realize a profit or did you just kind of take a hit and move on? No, we still turned a profit but you know, and then with the market conditions at the time, I really liked flipping and I thought that was really fun but this renting thing, the market wasn't right for flipping anymore at that point and the rental, I was like, I don't know. It seems like a lot of work for whatever it was, 400 bucks a month or something like that. I'm like, I don't really get it. So I was kind of turned off to tell you the truth and then it was about a year or so later. So this is like fall of 2008. A friend of mine called me and says, hey, do you wanna help me out with this real estate project in the US? I'm like, sure, what you got? And I just sold my other business and so I was ready for something else and it was, we had all these properties, about 60 properties, mostly centered in the Midwest and it was a situation where they had bought these properties in like the spring of 2007. So like top, top, top of the market. So they way overpaid for this stuff. It was supposed to just be a quick flip. They were supposed to just sell it off to another organization and then deal went sideways. That deal never happened. So when I got on board, it was like, oh shoot, what do we do now? We're stuck with all these properties that were in really rough shape, spread out all over three or four states and how do we deal with it? They're all based in California, so none of them knew anything or had no real estate experience at all. So that was the charge and so we kind of thought we'd, a couple of Canadian boys, we thought we'd invented seller financing. We started selling these houses on terms and creating notes and didn't know any of the terminology, didn't know that's what it was, didn't know how to do that properly. So we made all kinds of mistakes, but at the same time, it was a great base. It was a way to get started in it. So that was my introduction to notes, was creating notes without knowing that's what they were. Okay. Okay, so now you are, this is your primary thing and you are, tell me how you, let me, walk me through a deal that you would do to kind of help me get some more context on this. Yeah, so you mentioned you've had some lenders on the show, which is great and I would love to meet them because what I do, I don't actually lend out money. I look for somebody else that has already done that. Then I approach them and say, hey, any of those loans are you looking to recapitalize? For a variety of reasons, whether it's because they're not paying anymore for some reason, or because they're just looking to get cash back out so they can turn it around, do it again, or they've got a different investment or they want to send a kid to college, whatever it is, they want cash for that long-term payment stream, they would rather have a lump sum today. Sure. And that's where I come in. And so I say, well, you've already done the work to create the note. I will cash you out of that, of your position and take over as the new quote unquote lender, even though I'm not actually technically lending the money out. Yeah, so the terms don't change. Right. And, okay. So is this then primarily, I think, is it primarily seller financing kind of deals that you're doing this with or? It is today. When I first got started, it was all about non-performing loans and the vast majority of those were bank loans at some kind of institution. But it's shifted over time, like as the economy has changed and there's less and less of the defaulted notes out there, which is great, but the banks aren't necessarily selling, not in small quantities to a guy like me, they're performing loans. So I'm now turned around. It's kind of fun. I'm going back to full circle and looking for those people that were doing exactly what I was doing when I got started and creating notes. And then I'm offering to buy them out and step into that place. When

you were doing the bank ones, was that, I mean, were they like Freddie Fannie kind of loans? I mean, were they big institutions, not just like your in-house loan, that your bank at the corner. So these were big institutions that you're approaching about buying their mortgage from? Yeah, typically the way it would go is like a bigger hedge fund would buy a big pool from the banks. Like US Bank, we got a lot from them. No, not like Chase or Well. Well, we did have some Wells actually, but typically, you know, tier B type banks is kind of smaller banks. But they would, the hedge funds would go in and do a purchase for a hundred million. And then they would say, okay, here's our parameters. This is what we want. Anything that falls outside of that, we sell off. And so that's where I came in and I was the guy buying whatever didn't fit their box. Okay. Now, is this on like Facebook Marketplace? Is there a portal somewhere you can go to like where, I mean, I understand this isn't happening as much now, but like at the time, this is just having a connection to these places or? All networking, like so much networking. So I started going to conferences in 2009 and that was it. It's just, I, you know, called myself the Canadian note guy just to help, you know, get some recognition, some kind of branding. And it worked pretty well. People got to know who I was. And, you know, if I say I want to buy that, I would actually follow through. And so got a fairly good reputation that way. And people knew I was for real. So yeah, it worked out great. And we've been just doing that for years and years. And then, like I say, we transitioned over to performing more these days. Yeah, okay. So now when you're looking at, yeah, the owner finance kind of deals, how are you finding them? Are you looking for like delinquent kind of things or what's that look like? It's still the same kind of thing, a lot of networking. So I actually took over a conference a few years ago. So we're running that now. And that's been huge where people, again, just recognition to know kind of who I am and what I'm about, which is great. And so I'm actively looking for loans that people are looking to sell off for, like I say, all kinds of different reasons. And is there, so obviously you'd be getting the interest that Azori agreed upon. I would imagine you can't change the terms to the borrower. Do you get a cut then off the top as well for like kind of doing this? Like, do you get like some sort of fee like to, yeah, like I have $100,000 note currently. Are you getting like, am I getting like 95,000 so that you or something like that? Right, yeah, it's gonna be some kind of discount and that's, it's calculated. There's a few factors. So very first thing is what's the interest rate on the note? If somebody wrote a note at 4%, 5%, my target yield that I'm looking for for my fund is 12. So my discount is gonna be pretty hefty. If it's 100,000 balance, maybe 50% and that's not great. You're probably not gonna like my offer. So if it's a note that was written at nine or 10%, we're gonna be much, much closer. My discount is gonna be much smaller. So we're more likely to make a deal. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah, and there's probably more of those out there. Is there, I mean, just hard money, I know that's usually short term. Is that ever kind of come into play as well? Yeah, and it's funny. So I look for either short term or really long term. So it's either, you know, one to two years or 25 to 30 years. But that in between time is not so great for me actually. So it's either gotta be really short or really long. Okay, and if there's a person that is lending at a nine or 10% interest rate, and is that ever like a 25, 30 year product? And if so, what are like the circumstances? Is it just somebody that couldn't qualify otherwise? Yeah, we actually find those a lot. More often than not, that kind of a loan, like a long term higher interest seller finance note, you find a lot of those in Texas.

Not to say that's the only place, but that's the biggest concentration for sure. The buyers are gonna be anything from somebody who's self-employed to ITIN borrower. So like they're not here illegally, but they're not citizens either. Those are kind of the two major qualifiers, or just somebody that didn't qualify to a bank because of whatever. It could be lower credit score, or it could be, you know, any number of things that made it so that they couldn't qualify. Okay, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, that's interesting. So you said you're investors, so you have like a fund, is it a fund set up then to, you know, people can invest with you? It is secured by real estate, so that's probably a selling point there. Then you have like a target return on investment there. Does IRR come into play as well in this circumstance? Like do people get paid out at a certain time, or is it kind of more of a long-term kind of holding? I would consider it more of a long-term thing. It's a debt fund. Because we're buying performing notes, when I resell that note, there's not actually a bump. Like we're not selling for more at a future date. So because of that, we're not doing an equity share because there's no extra equity to be had. So this is your, you know, set it and forget it, use IRA funds, something like that, where it's just collecting interest and off you go. You can compound it if you want, you know, instead of taking the distribution, you just reinvest it. That compounds, that's another option, but yeah, it's the long-term stuff. That's gonna be your best bet on this. Well, yeah, and I mean like 12% is great. Okay, so then on top of that, I'm curious how often you've had to like, if people have defaulted, how often you've had to foreclose and what that process looks like. Yeah, it's interesting. So when I got my start, it was all non-performing. So foreclosure is, it's a great tool. I'll tell you the vast majority of the time, like more than 90%, 95% of the time when I foreclose, it's because the house is vacant. So either they've passed away or they've abandoned the property. Those are really most of the foreclosures that we do. It's really rare that I actually foreclose on a person. I'm mostly foreclosing just on an empty house. So I, and I don't like to be that guy, you know, like that's not what I'm about. I don't wanna kick people out of their homes. So we've got all kinds of options because I bought it at a discount, I'm far more flexible than the bank would be initially. So, or whoever the original lender was. So because of that flexibility, I can go in and say, look, you know, your $800 payment isn't working for you, obviously. So what's more realistic? You know, maybe we get this situation all the time where somebody, you know, lost their job and now they've got this other job. Okay, great. So first of all, do they just need one or two months to get caught back up? If that's the case, no problem. We can tack that back onto the end of the loan. All right, no issue. We'll just keep on going. If it's the better job or the other job doesn't pay as well. Okay, so $800 a month doesn't work. Could you do seven or how about 650 or six? And we come up with whatever terms are gonna make sense for both of us. And then it's a modification of the loan, it's recorded the county and now that's the new loan. That's those terms. So in that circumstance, I would imagine you're adding years to the end of the loan to make up for the less payment? You know, maybe that's one option and that's where it gets really fun and creative because we can say, okay, and I've done all kinds. We've raised interest rates or lowered them, stretched out payment time or shortened it. Payments have gone up or down and it just really depends on what really the borrower is looking for, the person living in the home, what's gonna make most sense. And then we come to terms and that's the new law. Yeah, no, I've done, I've personally done one owner financing creative deal, if you wanna call it that.

There was a lot of moving parts with it. It was kind of a unique situation. My parents were buying one, it's a very nice quadruplex or it's actually two duplexes put together. They were buying one apartment to live in, to downsize in. It's a perfect scenario for them in a great location, beautiful, beautiful place. We did owner financing on the rest and I actually put it all on one half of the duplex. So that half of the duplex is over leveraged, but an appraiser, it doesn't matter, right? It's the same thing as the owner. And then now that allows me some flexibility to, if my parents were like, God forbid, they had an emergency, they need to get to a nursing home or whatever, I can do a refinance on just that half and get their money out and let them do their thing. There was just, it's just fun when you get to that space because you can kind of custom tailor, yeah, perfect for that situation and where it's a win for everybody. Yeah, love that. That's awesome. And at the time I felt like I was probably paying too much for it. I don't know if maybe that was just my ego, but at the end of the day, I got a great term. So I only had to bring $30,000 of my own money into the deal, which made it a win for me. And like I said, it's a great property. My parents are super happy. So it's just a win-win all around. Yeah, that's perfect. And then, so one other option is instead of refinancing, you can sell off the note. And that's where somebody like me would come in and say, well, I mean, maybe it's because you don't wanna refinance with the bank because of, I don't know, because you don't like the bank, or maybe it's because this is faster or whatever the case might be, but it's another option. Me or somebody like me, and if it's not me, I can refer you to one of my colleagues and say, so this one's not really in my wheelhouse, but you know what? Call Dave, he's got you. Well, and the thought was securing more debt on it. So is that possible as well? Yeah, it's a little unusual, but yeah, that's doable for sure. That was kind of like a worst case scenario where we don't really have, they may need to move faster than we have really built up the equity or the appreciation to be able to do other options. And so worst case scenario, then we're very over leveraged if we have to be for a period of time. But again, we structured this on a 20 year note with the owner and that hurt extra because again, the rents were lower. I felt like I overpaid because of that, but it's all turning, so it's great. It's a really good situation. And again, I'm just bringing that up because it's the beauty of this space is that you can really fine tune the situation for, or fine tune the note, the scenario, all the details of it, all the terms for the scenario itself. And it's cool that you had the flexibility to do that. Big banks, they can't. I mean, they just don't have the capacity. It's just like, this is our box. That's the thing, the capacity, the imagination, I'm not sure which it is. In any case, yeah, they just, they won't do it. This is what we can do and that's it. And anything outside of that, well, you're out of luck. And then somebody like us takes over and we're like, oh man, are you kidding me? There's all kinds of flexibility here and there and we can structure this way or that. Let's figure it out. And yeah, I mean, any agent listening to this probably has had experiences with a bigger bank that they, one thing that comes to mind for me is I have a, we don't have a ton of condos in my area. And there's a condo that does, it's warrantable, whatever the word is, for Fannie Freddie. It's sold multiple times, tons of them have sold this way. But have a big bank come involved and they see something in the disclosure pack that they don't like and they're out, they're just done. And now we have a buyer thinking like, this place, I won't be able to sell it again. I'm like, no, like we've literally had VA, FHA, every kind of different loan you can imagine happen.

It's just, it was a big bank that has a box and they have very low risk tolerance and they don't care about their reputation going forward because they have plenty of business coming in. Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. And they're big enough that, yeah, you don't actually matter to them. Not at all. You work with a local lender. Their skin is on the line every time. They wanna make sure that deal goes through unless there's absolutely something they can't avoid. And that's gonna be the same for you. I mean, your reputation's on the line, you're networking to get your business. So it's important to you. Yeah, yeah. And then really where I like to come in in that situation is I'll let you go ahead and do all of that part of it. Qualifying the borrower and figuring out how to make the payments work and all this and that. I'll let you do all that part and then I'll just come in and say like, so what are the terms again? Okay, this is how much I'll give you for that. I'm the after effect. Sure, sure. But it's cool that if there is a bumpy road you can get a little creative. Yeah, definitely, yeah. For everybody. Yeah, that's awesome. So is there any other, well, I guess, a better question. Yeah. How is the market in your area now? Do you see things slowing down at all? Has there been any price drops since the craziness of 2021 I guess may be the peak? And if so, what similarities do you see from the 2008 kind of market? Yeah, it's so interesting to see and you kind of look back over time and see how things have changed and there definitely has been a change. So just to give you an idea, my first non-performing note purchase in 2010, it was a package of three different loans on three different properties, all based in Columbus, Ohio. Three different loans, three different properties, total purchase price for me was $10,000. And that was, I was talking with a friend, a colleague and he had the deal and I'm like, 10 grand, really? For all three of those? That's insane. Okay, and so I'm like, you know what? It's worth a $10,000 experiment to see what happens. And it worked out amazingly well. And I'm like, okay, this is awesome. I love this, let's do this. Go from there to coming up 2018, 19, non-performing notes were trading at almost the same price as a performing note. So in other words, if the balance of that note was $100,000 and it was, it had not been paying for the last year, the purchase price for that at the time was probably around like 70, 75, maybe 80 cents even. And if it was performing, if they had been making payments, I could buy it for almost the same amount. And so it just, the margins got so slim on that and just availability went way, way down. And so that was- Are you interested in this? Is that why? You know, it was a combination of things where there's much more interest in non-performers and so demand was much higher. And then at the same time, just market conditions had changed. Enough of the 2008 inventory had moved through. So there was just less availability there. And they didn't have to lower the price as much, that whole supply and demand thing. Yeah, interesting. Because of that, we started really thinking and then when COVID hit, it was like, okay, let's rethink what we're doing here and how do we want to change things up? And it just gave us, for me, it was kind of nice. We had a little bit of a break just to slow down enough to say, okay, let's start working on the business instead of in the business and rethink some things and decide how we want to go forward. So that's where we kind of first thought of, you know what, maybe we should just change over and start doing some performing loans. And the biggest advantage, disadvantage there is with the non-performers, the potential for higher returns is much greater because you're buying at a bigger discount and then it can take several different paths and all of them good. And depending on how you bought it and if it goes this

direction or that direction, you're still making money, maybe a little more, maybe a little less. But it's generally speaking, you're gonna get higher returns off of that. There's a lot more work and more time involved in those things. But like I say, it tends to be worth it in the end. With availability and pricing changing, it didn't make as much sense. Then you started looking at the performing loans. Performing loans have been around forever. Like that's been the mainstay of note investing for literally centuries, for a long, long, long time. Lower returns generally, but a lot less work, a lot less involvement needed once you've purchased this loan. Not none, but less. And so we started looking at that and looking at my kids are getting older and those sorts of things and looking at how I wanna be spending my time. And that was really the catalyst for everything that we're doing today with the fund. Yeah. And then it's just interesting, you start looking at it and going, okay, so not only is it better for me, but it's actually also better for the investor because then they're instantly diversified into a pool of funds and there's increased safety, there's increased predictability on when and how much they're getting paid. Like, yeah, okay, all right, we'll do it. Okay. Yeah, I love it. I love it. I've definitely talked to different people in different areas. And I think the areas that are seeing price declines are definitely in the opinion of maybe those markets being the canary in the coal mine for something bigger. It's really interesting how differing the opinions are between different people as to like kind of the future. I really say, obviously nobody has a crystal ball, but to me, it definitely, especially in my market seems very different than anything in 2008. Inventory levels alone is kind of the biggest thing. The lending practices seem to be much cleaner as well. So yeah, I guess it's just always interesting to hear people's opinions on. Yeah, and it was really interesting. So we just ran, I mentioned we took over this conference. We just had it just a few weeks back and same kind of thing. We had somebody there from Mortgage Bankers Association. So he's got all his charts and all his graphs and everything showing trends that have been happening over the last, I don't know, going back 20 years and looking to see where the line's going. And it is going up. Yeah, from like defaults and things like that. So we are definitely seeing like, and I would kind of consider that mainstream where that kind of information is coming out where there is an uptick in a lot of these defaults and people starting to struggle with the mortgage payments. Right after the Mortgage Bankers guy, we had a different panel on, and it's more people that are like in the trenches and doing this day-to-day. And I think a lot of that information that they've got at Mortgage Bankers doesn't account for a lot of the smaller investors like us and smaller being under a hundred million where we're not reporting to the same agencies. So that information is not included in those bigger charts. And we're definitely seeing that on our side where there is definitely an increase in short-term especially has been struggling just with payments and defaults. And even in the long-term, there's been a small uptick. It hasn't been massive, but there has been a small uptick. And so we're all kind of watching and waiting to see what's gonna happen. And are we gonna see a bunch of these non-performers coming back? We'll see. Yeah. I talked to, he was a realtor that helps people avoid foreclosure. And he had kind of a whole fund. He had went through it himself in 2008. And so he went through the whole process, has a lot of pain with it. And most of the time people just don't really understand their options and what they can do to try to advocate for themselves and try to right the ship. So he does his best to help them. And he was saying that he

believed that there was a lot of, like the bailouts that were happening that are happening are a lot more consumer related as opposed to like a big bailout to a bank which he thinks is a good thing. But he also wonders if that also kind of artificially creates a backlog of future foreclosures that could come and yeah, down the line all of a sudden. So yeah, it's hard to know. It's hard to know for sure what's going to happen. Actually, I would agree with that because like in 2019, we were all doing our thing and having conversations about like, okay, just if you look over history, we're due. Timing is such that we're due for some kind of a downturn and it wasn't happening yet. So when COVID hit, same thing. We all got on these calls and had this big 20 person Zoom call and we're like, okay, so this is it, right? We're gonna see all these defaults coming through. And then it didn't. And a whole bunch of money got pumped in and really artificially propped everything up. And so good or bad, right or wrong, I don't know. But I'm just looking at the aftereffects and I think we are starting to see and I think we're gonna continue to see and over the next year or so, a lot of those COVID payments that were helping prop things up are starting to fall apart. And it's getting tough for people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Certainly if people didn't take advantage of or bought something after those crazy low interest rates, it can be a high payment. I mean, we actually just, we did a cash out refinance on a property we were flipping. And I think our payment on a house that's about a thousand square feet is I think a little bit more than our payment on our 46,000 square foot house. So it's just like, I mean, we got it a while back too. So there's a lot of appreciation and yeah, anyway. But it's just kind of interesting to see and it can be tough. So I guess anybody out there looking to buy, definitely I think it's good to try to be conservative on the numbers and make sure you got, yeah, you don't max out your possible mortgage payments. Yeah, if you're looking at that like worst case scenario, middle case scenario, best case scenario, maybe stick with the worst case scenario for now. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, and other news, I think, did it get past that the 100% depreciation would come back? I guess that wouldn't really apply to your world since you're not actually owning the asset. Yeah, and it's really interesting. And as much as things are going on in all over, inflation and different rules changing and announcements coming out every day and changing the next day, there's a lot of uncertainty. And again, I don't care what side of your aisle you're on or whatever, I'm Canadian, so I'm totally agnostic when it comes to that. But really the key word today is uncertain. And which means change and it means fear for a lot of people and uncertain is the word. The cool thing is with notes is because what I bought is an established set of terms, very little of that matters. Whatever inflation is doing, whatever it's doing, pricing and this, that and everything else, eggs can be more or less. For the most part, it doesn't really make a difference to me. Yeah, monthly payment is the monthly payment, the interest rate is the interest rate and it is what it is. And either you can pay or you can't. If you can't, I can probably help you fix that. But we're relatively unaffected. So it's, nothing is recession proof, but we're definitely resistant. That makes a lot of sense. I mean, yeah, you're not again tied to the pricing of the house so much. I mean, if it's not really bad and you owe more than what the house was worth, that might be a different story, but buying at a steep discount, that's a really good point. Which actually brings me to my next question, which would be like, are people that are investing in your fund, do they have to be accredited investors or what does that look like? Yeah, for my fund it is. It's one of those government rules and again, government, good or bad, right or wrong, that it is what it is.

And so that's what they've set up. And yeah, accredited. I wish we could do something different to tell you the truth, but my hands are tied. Yeah, so to hash out what that means to people that are listening, that's a net worth of a million or more outside of your primary residency or making what, 200,000 single, 300,000 married. Is that right? Yeah, that's right. And that's what, for the past two years, I believe? Yes. And I mean, if you've just had that one year, still come and talk to me and we'll see what we can figure out. But those are the, that's what's on the records. That's what's in the books. Yeah, and it's good to know about these options. I think like one of the things that I think is really good for agents to know is that this world exists. And as for many syndications, they can take advantage of the tax benefits with apartment buildings or whatever. Getting that accelerated appreciation is all gravy as well. But the beauty of all this is, is you can look at it kind of like a stock portfolio as well where you can kind of diversify and place a certain portion into something like what you're doing, where it's gonna not be as dependent upon what the value of the asset is. And you can get that steady kind of income from it. And it's hands-off and related to your field, so. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And that's what I say to people as well. It's like, look, don't put all your eggs in any basket. Split it up. And if you wanna put some into some kind of a syndication, great. Truth is, over time, you're probably gonna get a higher return out of that. But you're probably also gonna have to wait for it. Where something like mine is, it's, you know, we're generating income day one. As soon as the money comes in, we buy a note, and that money is coming in month after month after month. So it's not a promise of some future projected return. This is, we know exactly what the return is as soon as we buy a note. So it's, in that way, I like the security of it. And then, you know, you mentioned like the housing prices going down. That's another beauty, you know? So that $100,000 balance that we bought, the house is probably worth more like 150. And then we also bought a discount. So our investment to value is really, really low. And so we've got a lot of room there for the what if, just in cases, whatever happens at some future point. No, it makes a lot of sense. So when people are investing in a fund like what you have, I know that with syndications, this is different than a fund, of course, but with syndications, you're kind of presented the deal, right? Like you have to like vet kind of the operators, which would be an operator. You would have to vet the deal itself. But in this circumstance, you're more like kind of giving like your buy box, if you will. And so it wouldn't be, they're not gonna be presented each mortgage you're gonna buy or each note you're gonna buy, right? Right. Yeah, no, and I think the important thing is for people getting involved in something like this is make sure you have just at least some understanding of how it works, so that you can be comfortable knowing what you're investing in. But after that, you really don't have to think about it. It's the mailbox money of all mailbox monies is it's just coming into you without you really having to do anything at all. You can review the report, that's it. Yeah, no, it is the beauty of it. Because I mean, again, with like a syndication, like there's kind of a game plan they usually lay out. And so, it's not a bad deal to check in to make sure that that game plan is kind of being executed. So even though it is very passive, it is also maybe a little bit more work than what you would be providing. So, yeah, I mean, and the whole accredited investor thing is really boiling down to people. The government doesn't want people like just spending money that they don't have or they can't afford to lose. It's kind of like an asset class that would be a little bit less traditional.

Some might see risky, and there's risk always with all this stuff. Always, yeah. But yeah, so that's kind of the point behind it. And when you become successful enough in your pursuits of real estate or whatever, it's just open some more doors where you can kind of, the sum of all this money piled together can kind of, the magnitude of what it can do, it becomes a lot bigger. No, exactly. And again, this is a great IRA investment or a solo 401k or any of those retirement plans, any of those work for this kind of investment. And then it can grow out there. Does it have to be self-directed to do that? I guess. And if you're with Fidelity or somebody like that that doesn't let you do it, we can hook you up with somebody that will let you do that so that you can put it wherever you'd like. Yeah, that's a great point. A lot of people could take advantage of that as well. Well, yeah, I mean, so this has been a super interesting conversation. Not one that I really was as familiar with, to be honest. So it's been educational for me. I hope it's been good for everybody else. Before we sign off here, I'm curious if you have any golden nuggets you wanna share with our audience. You know, you mentioned that before we got on and I think first and foremost is just to know that this kind of thing exists and that it's not some weird idea. Literally, you can go back in the Bible and find verses about buying and selling debts. Like it's been around forever. So it's not a new idea. It's not a new concept. It's been around for a long, long time. For some reason, it's not very well known, but know that it's out there. And if you're a realtor where you're looking to sell a property and maybe you're having a harder time selling it, seller financing is a great option. And there's different ways that you can set that up and I'd be happy to have a conversation with you. And knowing that there's a backend, if you've got a seller who is looking for total cash out, that's still a possibility with seller financing in place. So we can have those kinds of conversations if you'd like. I think my last thing that I like to tell people is I think back in those days when I was flipping properties and things like that, that was almost 20 years ago now. And I just think, you know, if I can go back and talk to that guy 20 years ago, me is just, things are bumpy and there's always gonna be ups and downs and there's always gonna be some kind of roller coaster. Just keep going, just keep going. There's so much out there. There's so much opportunity and there's so much to learn. Sometimes you gotta learn it the hard way. I did, but that's what makes you better. So just keep going. Yeah, I love that, having that perseverance. Yeah, not getting too bogged down on the current moment. Yeah. Do you have any books that you think are fundamental that like you think everybody should read or maybe something you're just currently enjoying? If you want, so there's, man, I like to read. So there's a few books on note investing. There's not a lot of books out there. The one that I would say is kind of the granddaddy of note investing is called Invest in Debt by Jimmy Napier. It's a little bit harder to come by because it's older. It's like four or five years old. From the early 80s, late 70s, maybe. So it's an old one and the numbers are kind of frustrating, kind of embarrassing almost. But when he talks about buying a house for $50,000 and this is the kind of payment, I'm like, really? But the principles are there and add zero or whatever you gotta do, but the principles are there and they're correct. And so it's a great read and that's a good base for what we do in the note investing world. That's a great one. That's a fun one. Okay, cool. If people are interested in learning more about what you do or potentially wanting to invest with you, where can they find you? Best place to go is my website. It's earnestinvesting.com and that's E-A-R-N-E-S-T. So earnestinvesting.

com and then there's links there for the conference. Won't do that again until next year, but if you're interested in being more hands-on, that's a great place to come and learn about that. We don't do any coaching or anything like that or nobody's gonna try to sell you anything at the conference, but it's a great place to come and learn and network. But otherwise, there's a little more information about note investing and some ways to contact me through the site, but that's the place to go. Well, Nathan, thanks so much for being on the show. It's been a pleasure. Hey, thank you so much. Good to be here.

[thebesthomelender]

Fix and Flip without Limits!

Lots of questions on buying a fixer upper and reselling it. There are videos and books on the subject. What they don’t tell you is how hard it is to get financing normally. Most mortgage lenders are what we would call fix and hold lenders, in fact, they often have penalties for paying off early. Until now… One of my lenders came out with this nice list of expanded criteria, check it out and…

[corridorfundingusa]

Fix and Flip

Fix and flip projects are a lucrative way to invest in real estate, but securing the right financing is crucial for success. Whether you’re a seasoned investor or just starting, accessing quick and flexible funding can make all the difference. Private lenders like those at Corridor Funding offer tailored loans for fix and flip properties, allowing you to move fast and maximize returns. With fewer restrictions than traditional lenders, you can focus on renovating and selling properties with confidence. Fix and Flip

[closingqueeen]

E 20th St, Indianapolis, IN 46218 Property Size: 1,536 square feet Lot Size: 9,017 square feet Bedrooms/Bathrooms: 2 bed / 1 bath Year Built: 1952 Current Status: Vacant Rehab Costs: Estimated at $10,000 Asking Price: $130,000 After Repair Value (ARV): $190,000 Price Per Square Foot: $251/sqft (based on ARV)

[accolend]

[thebuyeragency]

Fix and Flip with Advance Draw

Fix and Flip with Advance Draw Fix and Flip is a rehab purchase loan, that is based on the approvement of a investment property based on the appraisal value after repairs are complete. 620+ mid credit score 1/3 of the rehab value paid up to $30k within 5 days of closing and no inspection required. We can lend up to 90% of total cost (purchase price + rehab)  We can close on average in 5-7 days…

[capitalton]

Fix and Flip Loans

Loans to flip properties without relying on personal income.

Close as fast as 10 days

No prepayment penalty

No appraisal

Fix and Flip Loan Terms

Loan to purchase: Up to 90% LTC Rehab financing: Up to 100% After-repair value: Up to 75% ARV Loan amount: Minimum $75,000 Interest rate: Start at 9.25% Credit score: Minimum 680 Loan terms: 6, 12, 18 and 24 months

Learn more about fix and flip loans.

[andrewgesuele]

Fix and flip- is a popular real estate investment strategy that involves purchasing a distressed property, renovating it, and then selling it for a profit. In this article, we will explore the fix and flip strategy in detail, including its benefits, risks, and best practices. The first step in the fix and flip strategy is to find a distressed property that is undervalued and in need of renovation. This can be done through various channels, including real estate agents, online listings, and auctions. Once a suitable property has been identified, the investor must assess the renovation costs and potential resale value to determine if the investment is financially viable.

The next step is to secure financing for the purchase and renovation of the property. This it typically done through private lenders who specialize in real estate investments. It is important to have a solid financial plan in place before embarking on a fix and flip project to ensure that the investment is profitable.

Once the property has been purchased, the renovation process can begin. This typically involves repairing or replacing any damaged or outdated features, The investor may also choose to update the property with modern finishes and amenities to increase its resale value.

After the renovation is complete, the property can be listed for sale. The investor must carefully consider the market conditions and set a competitive price to attract potential buyers. Once a buyer has been found, the investor can sell the property and realize a profit. While the fix and flip strategy can be highly profitable, it is not without its risks. One of the biggest risks is underestimating the renovation costs, which can eat into the potential profits. Additionally, the real estate market can be unpredictable, and a downturn in the market can result in a loss on the investment. To mitigate these risks, it is important to follow best practices when executing a fix and flip project. This includes conducting thorough research on the property and the local real estate market, working with experienced contractors and real estate professionals, and having a solid plan in place.

[strategic-passive-investments]

Oil's Roller Coaster: Navigating Supply Surges and CEO Insights in a Volatile Market

Oil prices experienced a significant drop, hitting their lowest point in five months, as indicators of abundant supplies continued to mount. West Texas Intermediate (WTI) saw a decline of up to 4.3%, falling below $69 per barrel, a level not seen since late June. Despite efforts by OPEC and its allies to implement new output cuts, crude oil has witnessed a continuous seven-week slide.

The ongoing pressure on prices is fueled by fresh signals that global supplies remain plentiful. Russia's seaborne crude exports reached their highest weekly average since early July, and a US government agency revised its estimate for the country's oil production this year, increasing it by 30,000 barrels per day compared to last month's projection.

Concerns about oversupply persist, evident in the spreads between monthly contracts. The front end of the Brent futures curve closed at its lowest level since June this week, reinforcing the perception of ample supplies in the market. Dennis Kissler, Senior Vice President for Trading at BOK Financial Securities, remarked, "Futures are trying to solidify a bottom from last week's selloff. The contango structure of back-month futures gaining on the front month is setting the tone that current supplies seem ample."

The oil market is currently enduring its longest weekly losing streak since 2018, with prices down by more than a quarter from the peak observed in late September. The outlook for demand in the first quarter appears gloomy due to forecasts of slowing Chinese consumption growth and lingering recession risks in the US.

As the market navigates these challenges, Charlie Sells, CEO of Strategic Passive Investments,

expressed his opinion on the situation. He emphasized the need for a strategic and adaptive approach in the face of evolving market dynamics. Sells suggested that investors should carefully assess the changing landscape and consider long-term strategies that account for the current oversupply conditions.

In the coming week, key industry players such as the International Energy Agency, the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, and the US Energy Department are set to publish their latest monthly assessments of market fundamentals. Additionally, investors will closely monitor the Federal Reserve's final rate decision of the year, which could have implications for the broader economic landscape and, consequently, oil prices. 

[unitedstatesrei]

Mom Guilt, Real Estate, and Building a Legacy of Love with Cheyenne McGriff

Key Takeaways You can be a successful businesswoman and a devoted mother, but it requires setting boundaries and embracing support. Delegation is not a weakness—it's a strategic move that unlocks growth and presence at home. Legacy isn't just what you leave behind; it's what you build every day with intention, balance, and love. United States Real Estate Investor The REI Agent with Cheyenne McGriff https://youtu.be/W9MQvDhYLWY Follow and subscribe to The REI Agent on social Facebook Instagram Youtube .cls-1fill:#fff; Linkedin X-twitter United States Real Estate Investor It's time to have an investor-friendly agent on your team! It's time to have an investor-friendly agent on your team! United States Real Estate Investor Navigating the Intersection of Business and Motherhood On this episode of The REI Agent, Mattias and Erica Clymer welcome South Dakota real estate powerhouse and podcaster Cheyenne McGriff for a deeply honest conversation about balancing motherhood, business ambition, and building generational wealth. Cheyenne’s journey is not only inspiring, it’s a powerful reminder that you can create a fulfilling life on your own terms, even when the odds feel stacked. Cheyenne, who co-runs her real estate team with her grandparents and raises a four-year-old daughter, brought raw vulnerability and wisdom to the mic. Through stories of her journey from rural beginnings to a growing real estate career, she shares what it really takes to make it all work, without losing yourself in the process. Breaking Free from the Rat Race with the Cashflow Quadrant Mattias and Erica set the tone with a quick dive into Robert Kiyosaki’s Cashflow Quadrant, highlighting how real estate agents often mistake self-employment for true freedom. Cheyenne echoed this lesson throughout her episode by describing how delegation and building support systems has shifted her from overwhelm into ownership. “You become more than your hours put in. It’s not like you work eight hours and get paid for eight hours—you start building something bigger than you.” The discussion reminded listeners that escaping the rat race isn’t just about grinding harder; it’s about thinking differently. Cheyenne’s path illustrates this shift with her strategic moves into investing, flipping, and planning for long-term passive income. From Prairie Roots to Powerful Presence Hailing from a town of just 800 in South Dakota, Cheyenne was mentored by her grandmother, a real estate agent since the 1970s. That foundation, combined with her own modern-day marketing skills, has created a deeply rooted, service-oriented business model. She’s not just selling homes, she’s creating experiences that leave clients feeling like family. “The people part is really what I like about this job… I want them to feel like they’re part of something bigger than just one transaction.” From personalized welcome gifts to seasonal community events and even a private online client community, Cheyenne has elevated relationship-based marketing into an art form. Letting Go to Grow: Delegation and the Power of Support One of the most transformative parts of Cheyenne’s story is her shift toward delegation. After resisting the idea of hiring a transaction coordinator, a stressful moment on the job pushed her to take the leap—and it changed everything. “I wasn’t good at asking for help, but once I hired my first TC, I knew I could finally start working on the business, not just in it.” That shift allowed her to stay present at home, plan ahead for another child, and avoid burning out. She reminded listeners that you don’t need to do everything alone to be a great agent—or a great parent. The Shadow Side: Mom Guilt, Identity, and Real-Life Balance This episode didn’t shy away from the hard truths. Cheyenne and Erica tackled “mom guilt” head-on, especially the emotional whiplash of switching between demanding clients and emotionally needy toddlers. “Sometimes client conversations

aren’t that different from talking to a toddler—both are needy and expect you to drop everything.” Cheyenne shared how she’s had to draw boundaries, set Sundays aside for family, and challenge the inner dialogue that whispers she’s not doing enough at home or at work. Her story resonated deeply with Mattias, who acknowledged his own growth in fatherhood and the importance of intentional presence over perfection. Legacy, Leadership, and Living Life on Your Terms Cheyenne’s episode is a masterclass in long-term thinking. From modeling leadership to her daughter, to inheriting and evolving a decades-old family business, she embodies a vision that’s bigger than today’s to-do list. “I want my daughter to see that you can love working and love being a mom at the same time.” Whether talking about avoiding real estate "jail" or describing the safety and values of her South Dakota community, Cheyenne inspires agents to redefine success, not as a sprint, but as a legacy. You Can Have It All, But Not All at Once Cheyenne left listeners with a profound reminder: seasons matter. Some seasons are for the grind, and others for the people we grind for. “You can have it all, but you can’t have it all the time.” In a culture obsessed with hustle, this episode was a breath of fresh air, showing that slowing down, delegating, and showing up for what really matters might just be the greatest investments we’ll ever make. Ready to build your legacy while living a life that feels full and aligned? This episode is your blueprint. Stay tuned for more inspiring stories on The REI Agent podcast, your go-to source for insights, inspiration, and strategies from top agents and investors who are living their best lives through real estate. For more content and episodes, visit reiagent.com. Related Articles Therapy You Didn’t Know You Needed (Holistic Wisdom for Real Estate Professionals) From For Sale Signs to Life Design (How The REI Agent Transforms Real Estate Into Holistic Wealth) Achieving Holistic Wealth and Success Through Real Estate (Insights from The REI Agent) Partnering with Investors (How Real Estate Agents Can Exponentially Maximize Profits) United States Real Estate Investor Create healing and connection within yourself, your family, and your community. Create healing and connection within yourself, your family, and your community. United States Real Estate Investor Contact Cheyenne McGriff Cheyenne Summer 605 Real Estate Mama Collective @cheyennesummer605 United States Real Estate Investor Mentioned References Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki The Let Them Theory: A Life-Changing Tool That Millions of People Can’t Stop Talking About United States Real Estate Investor Transcript Welcome to the REI Agent, a holistic approach to life through real estate. I'm Mattias, an agent and investor. And I'm Erica, a licensed therapist. Join us as we interview guests that also strive to live bold and fulfilled lives through business and real estate investing. Tune in every week for interviews with real estate agents and investors. Ready to level up? Let's do it. Welcome back to the REI Agent. Erica, let's talk about the cashflow quadrant. Great. Let's do it. I'm so excited. This is the stuff that keeps you up at night with excitement, exhilaration, mental stimulation. Yeah, so the cashflow quadrant is just simply like, you know, there's being an employee, then being self-employed, then moving over to being a business owner, and then going down into being an investor. And the goal is to kind of work your way through it and try to be more on the business owner and investing side. I think that a lot of people, when they first get into being a real estate agent, feel like they've kind of like broken out of the system and have made it. And I think that is a huge step and a very intimidating one, a very scary one. I mean, you did the same thing. Coming out of like being in a company that you did your therapy services for.

It's being having a private practice. You became a self-employed person as well. And that is a big step. However, it is very much dependent on you as a person, right? So moving into, you know, trying to get our businesses or trying to, I don't know if you have any interest in this at all, but you know, trying to move things over into that business quadrant more and investing quadrant. So obviously we're doing the real estate investing. An idea for, you know, private practice is that you could, of course, you know, buy a building and then have people kind of lease it, but maybe also somehow work under an umbrella of yours. Is that something you could do as a private practice counselor? Yeah, yeah, I could. I could be where I would just be in a consulting role and have therapists under me seeing the clients. And how would that work? Would they get like you had a cut for every client they see? Yeah, I would take a percentage. Um, and I think it's, it is attractive in some ways. I think it's also being a therapist is not the best paid job for the amount of work that you do and the amount of emotional investment you put into the job. And so, but, and so I guess in saying that, it's really nice to be able to be just in private practice on your own. And so I would almost want to maybe create something where I'm encouraging and helping other people being able to do that. And like more of a coaching or creating some sort of a class supportive role there, as opposed to being, having therapists underneath me. Because when I do that, everything rides on my license also. And that the liability there skyrockets. Sure. Yeah, I mean, the same would be for real estate teams or brokerages, certainly brokerages more as far as the liability rides on them. So that's definitely a big factor, big consideration. I mean, and there's always the fact that you don't necessarily even have to own a business that would be related to what you do. I mean, you can buy businesses. You can buy, I mean, each, you know, they say that, you know, every multifamily unit or apartment building you buy is a business. And I mean, really each investment in general, each single family even could be seen that way. Airbnb, blah, blah, blah. They can all be seen as businesses. Of course, there are investments as well. But basically, that you become more than your hours put in. You are becoming greater than the hours you put in. So it's not like you work eight hours, you get, you know, X amount of money. You instead have your money work for you and have others work for you as well to kind of free yourself up. And I guess the reason for the conversation is we just had a great conversation with Cheyenne McGriff and she has a podcast and she talks a lot about mom guilt and how to kind of balance the life of a real estate professional and a mother, in my case, a father. And it's a tough balance. And I think, you know, trying to aim or trying to steer the ship in a way that is intentional, that you can not, you know, always sacrifice to, you know, you still have the moments with your kids, with your family as you go, but maybe also try to set yourself up to be less dependent upon the hours you put in so that you can have more time with the family. It's kind of where that was all going. Did you like the Cashflow Quadrant? Are you going to think about that tonight? As always, when we talk about financials like this, I try really, really hard to stay present. And so thank you for bringing that conversation back into the forefront where I can't walk away or do something while you talk. I just, it's probably the best place maybe for me to sit here and be present and listen to you. Can I lay out our next five years for you real quick? You guys have the time? No, but it's definitely, I think, demanding. I mean, it's the gift and the curse of branching out on your own and not being an employee is that it's harder to shut it off when you're not on. So it's definitely something that I think everybody has to work through.

They have to find their own way through this crazy world of real estate sales. And yeah, having that goal, having that North Star of trying to become 100% passive income is one of the goals. Owning a business could be another one for sure that maybe you can have enough delegation, management, et cetera, in place that you don't have to be 100% active. But yeah, trying to work towards that bigger picture is something that motivates me, especially when things are insane and I have very little time with the family. Anyway, without further ado, let's get right into Cheyenne McGriff. Welcome back to the REI Agent. We are here with Cheyenne McGriff. Cheyenne, thanks so much for joining us. Hey, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. Yeah, we were talking a little bit before that you have your own podcast as well. I do. Yeah, it's fun. I love connecting with others through podcasting and just hearing about everyone's journey in real estate and life and this kind of crazy world we're living. When did you start your podcast? I just started it late last fall. So it's a baby podcast but it was born out of a desire to connect with other, primarily moms in real estate that were dealing with the same things we are. Comparison with dealing with imposter syndrome, dealing with mom guilt, all the things. It's just been a fun way to connect across really the world with other agents. Have you found that those themes have been pretty common? Absolutely, yeah. It seems like something we all deal with but we don't share online because it's not the fun, pretty houses. It's the deep background, everyday hard work and sacrifice that comes with this career. Oh, yeah. I almost want to connect you with somebody we had on the show a couple weeks ago. I might send her your information because, oh my gosh, I feel like she would love your podcast. Well, tell us what you're coming out of and tell us kind of how you got into real estate and then we can get more into that theme as well. Absolutely. My office is in Rapid City, South Dakota. So if you're familiar with South Dakota at all or Western South Dakota, so think Mount Rushmore is where I am. But I live in a small town of about 800 people. So if you've heard of the Waldrug store in the Badlands National Park, that's where I am. So I work a lot of rural areas and also a ton in Rapid City, which we only have two cities in South Dakota and Rapid City is the second largest. And I think surrounding areas is maybe around 80 to 100,000 people. So that's a big city for me. I have, of course, my husband and I have a four-year-old daughter and a little puppy and been in real estate since 2018. I got into the business encouraged by my grandma. So I work on a team with my grandparents. My grandma's been in the business since the mid 70s. So I had a built in mentor basically my whole life. She had always encouraged me to join her. But after college, I mean, I just wanted to try to do my own thing. And then, of course, eventually ended up jumping into real estate. Wow. And since the 70s, she's really seen a good bit of change, huh? In the way advertising works and marketing. And just even how the relationships work between agents, buyers and sellers. So many things have changed. So much more paperwork now. Wow, that's amazing. Yeah, our company just had a 50-year celebration. And they're talking about how the contract was, I don't think I even filled up a whole page at the beginning. So I'm sure she saw that as well. You gotta love lawsuits to make things more paperwork heavy. Yeah, absolutely. It's just fun. When I was, I remember I was taking my classes, I would call her and ask her questions. She's like, yeah, that was because of this that happened. And now we have this paper. Like, oh my gosh. And now we've been seeing it with the change in the last year in our industry. So it's just, yeah, it's a wild world. It's always shifting. It kind of keeps things exciting though. And if you want to look at it as a positive.

And that's why I feel real estate's been a good fit for me. Because I had good jobs before I started in real estate. But I just like physically cannot handle being in one place for eight hours a day. So I just love the dynamics of real estate. I love how you can get into not just sales and investing and connecting with others. It's just an ever-changing industry that keeps me on my toes. So true. So what kind of a rhythm are you in right now in your day and your week at this current season? I know we over here, it definitely changes for us, depending on whether it's spring, summer, winter, fall. What's it like for you right now? Right now has been very busy. And I've been in a season of change and growth in my business for 2025. I had just one transaction coordinator for about two years. And now I'm up to, I have an in-person part-time admin, a marketing admin, a TC and an event planner for my client events. So I've just kind of grown my support team around me. And then of course, my team members with my grandparents. So I've been in a season of growth and working to delegate more. I started to feel like I was starting to kind of get, I don't know, drown in the work that I had and trying to do the things to make client experience better for everyone. And I just felt I needed some more support. So that's been a big shift for me this year. As far as day-to-day, I try to keep the same morning routine every day. But as you know, in this world, you can try to plan your day as much as possible. And something's going to change or shift, someone's going to need to see a house in five minutes, that kind of thing. So I would say I don't have a great rhythm, but I'm working on setting good boundaries with at least having one day that's off work for family focus a week. Mm-hmm. Okay. And your daughter, you said she's four. So she's in pre-K right now? She just finished her first year of preschool. So she'll have one more than kindergarten. Okay. Wow. Our middle daughter is heading into kindergarten in the fall and is very ready to get on that school bus that she sees her older sister get on every morning. That's exciting and hard. Yeah, I know. I'm curious what kind of client experience stuff you do or wanting to incorporate with your admin staff that you have. Yeah. So this year, I had always done at least one client event starting maybe two years ago. I do one client appreciation event. And this year, we're on track to do five for the year, all very different, all trying to hit each dynamic of my clients. One was kind of female focus that I did. Another was Valentine focus. And then we've got a family focus one coming up in August, and then a fall festival, and then a Christmas. But I could not do that on my own. So I contracted an event planner and a friend to help me out. And it's been amazing. I just like to do that little extra. I do client baskets for every client. I try to be very present in the transactions. Because one thing I don't want to do is get so busy that I just write up a contract and then hand somebody off to my team, which there's nothing wrong with that. There are all so many very different ways to run your business. But the people part is really what I like about this job. I do feel like my clients become my family. So I just very much try to stay as involved as I can while delegating the things that I do not have to physically do. Yeah, I love that. I've heard of, there's different, what's the word? Archetypes, business archetypes. And people have, companies have different brands. People have different brands. And one of them is kind of like the Disney. I don't think it's called the Disney. But it's like trying to keep that magical experience throughout the whole process. I toyed with the idea of, one idea I had heard that you have champagne or something delivered to them when they get pre-approved, like a buyer at their work. I haven't done that. That's a little extra, a little maybe too far.

Because you also get into the thing, what if they don't drink? So anyway, but just trying to make that experience be memorable and fun for them and feel like everything's well thought through. And you're right, when you have so many things that you're doing and you're just in your car nonstop going from appointment to appointment, it's hard to try to figure out those details. Let alone have quality time with your family. Right. And I never want anyone to feel like I'm too busy for them. So I try to just have my support staff help me with the things, like I said, that I don't physically have to do. But I never want to be too busy to actually take care of my clients throughout the process. And after closing, of course, there's a gift and all that. But I have a community, an online community where I put my clients into. So every time after closing, I just say, hey welcome so and so to our family. Give them a shout out. If you're their neighbor, tag them. So that everyone feels like they're part of something bigger than just one transaction. That's cool. That's an excellent idea. Is that on Facebook? It's a private client community, yeah. That's awesome. That's a good idea. Yeah, so how long ago did you... When you first got a transaction coordinator, at what point was that that you decided to bring that on? Well, very much. It was after I went on a podcast and said I would never get a transaction coordinator. And about two months later, I had a transaction. Well, actually, the story is I was very busy and I was doing a deal with another agent in my market. And I just could not get back to her on time for our response time. And I said, I'm so sorry. I'm out showing houses. I can't get this back to you. Can you please give me more time? And she's like, you need help. And she actually referred her transaction coordinator to me. And she said, you got to call this girl. She's going to help you out. And I had been toying with the idea for about a month or two before this. But I couldn't find anything that really fit. Like I didn't want somebody that wasn't... I wanted somebody not... They didn't have to be local. But I don't know. I just wanted to make sure that there was a little bit more in-house feel to it. And she doesn't have a huge list of agents she does TC work for. So she can really pay attention to my clients and what we need. And I had one interview with her and signed her on the next day. My biggest fear was before my shifting I've done this year, I wasn't... I have kind of a scattery brain. So my things made sense to me. And I was embarrassed to say, oh, here, can you fix my scattery brain documents? And she just knew exactly what to do and got it started. And I didn't even have to do... She just knew what to do. So that really helped me kind of level up as a business owner, I feel. And gave me more confidence down the line to continue hiring. One of the hesitations I had with that was... Or one of the things that I kind of did for a long time was I had a transaction coordinator kind of keep track of things in the back end. And then CC me that I would then... Or like make a list for me basically that I would then follow up with my clients with. And they would come from me. And I kind of wanted them to feel like it was coming from me. But ultimately, that became a bottleneck that I would... It still required me. And so it was something that would slow me down. And ultimately, sometimes it just wouldn't get done then because more of the communication piece wasn't getting done. I'm curious, did that ever... Was that a concern for you at all? Is that one of the reasons you were against it? And did you have them communicate with the clients directly? That was one of the reasons I was against it. So I had done deals in the past where I felt like myself as the agent on the other side. And the clients were just handed off. And I never wanted that feeling to come through. Like you never spoke to the listing agent again after you went under contract. And I didn't want that vibe.

So that was my biggest hesitation. But I exactly like you. I was like, well, I don't want my clients to think that I'm not working for them or that they can't call me or that they need to call her. But once I did that first deal and I just said, hi, myself and my TC will be reaching out to you. She can help you out. But you don't call her. You call me. If you have questions, you respond to both of us. We'll both help you out. And they seem to not care at all. As long as things were getting done and balls weren't being dropped, they didn't care. They always knew they could call me and get ahold of me for anything. And she's just made me much more efficient. As well as if I'm out showing houses all day, I don't have to be stuck in my office until 10 o'clock at night responding to everything I need to for other transactions. Yeah, totally. So it sounds like that too has made a difference just in you feeling like you can let go and be present then when you're home. Yeah, that's huge. Yeah. Let's get into the bomb stuff. Yes, I've been waiting. I've been letting Mattias ask his questions. Yes, I want to hear about that and more of the shadow side of what comes along with the real estate career. Yeah, absolutely. So mom guilt's very, very big. And it's gotten better now that my kid is a little older. She goes to preschool. She has daycare. She loves socializing. So during the day, I never feel like she's getting left out of anything. But what's still a challenge is getting home at night and still having work to do. Because sometimes work doesn't really start until like four or five o'clock when people are off work. And then they can call you and ask you questions and set up showings. So it's challenging really for me to stay present at home a lot of times. I have to set pretty clear boundaries that I'm still not very good at because I'll get on the phone and I'll be like, oh, this is just going to take a minute or I just need to respond to this real quick. And that real quick turns into an hour of following up and catching up on work, especially when my kiddo will sometimes say, mom, I really want to spend more time with you. Mom, can you stay home from work today so we can be together? That just breaks my heart. And so I've been working on this year implementing Sundays off or at least one day a weekend when she's home. Like this week, it was Saturday. And so I try to at least have a day where we can have a family day. And she understands I have to take a call here and there. But the goal is to not have showings, to not have things I have to physically be gone for. And it's not a perfect system. But it's been improving for a long time. My husband was mostly stay at home dad. But he recently started working again. So we're just kind of rebalancing, which has been a challenge. But I feel like we're doing the best that we can. It's so true. I mean, can you really go through raising kids without feeling like you're just doing the best you can? Yep. Exactly. It's chaotic. Amen to that. Yes. And we're hoping we're going to have another kid within the next year or so. So that's really been my biggest push for getting more support and more organized. So that because when I had my daughter, my husband was home. So now that he's working, it's just going to be a whole nother set of systems and time management and relying on others. So that was my big push for getting more organized and having more help. Yeah. So with some of the other women that you're talking to on your podcast, what are they saying that's similar to what you're mentioning? It's the balance between having the, I don't know if this is the best term, but like the boss babe energy, like the energy at work where you're trying to be in charge, trying to be in control, and then letting that go to have that softer energy at home. When you get home to really be present and let the work go and having that mom guilt is just so real. And I know what

happens for dads to just hearing my husband talk about it since he went back to work because in our, in our household, because he was home most of the time, he's really the primary go-to parent because my daughter's more used to me being gone because it has been that way basically since she was a month old. So the moms I talked to all have different experiences. Most of them don't have a husband that would stay at home like I did. I know it's more of a rare case. So just dealing with them, be having to be the primary parent when daycare's closed, they have to be home. When school lets out early, they have to be home. When summer care is over, they have to be home and take their kids to things. And most of the time we find that our clients are pretty okay with it as long as you let them know upfront if like, Hey, something, you know, I've got to bring my kid. But then it's finally like, okay, in this moment, am I mom or am I your agent? How do I balance these things? So it's just kind of a growing, I don't know about growing, but continually changing way to live your life. Yeah. Well, and I was also thinking, you know, in the evening, and I don't necessarily have this experience. So you guys would have to tell me if this is true, but I would imagine that it would be just a lot of extra work to transition from an adult conversation where you're maybe managing something that's super stressful and then having to be calm enough on the inside to then transition into maybe like a child who's really needing something and frustrated that you're not there as quickly as they want you to be and having just be calm on both sides. Yeah. It just takes a lot of work. Client conversations aren't all that different. People are very needy and they need you to do something right now and you're not paying enough attention to them. Sometimes they're similar conversations. I honestly, with my kid, one thing that I have tried to really work on when I get home is to get out of like problem solving. How do we handle this? How do we damage control and get through this? Instead of being like, okay, let me hear you. Let me listen to you. Let me hear how you're feeling and help you through this. Instead of in my job, I'm very like, okay, this is what we're going to do. This is the way through the problem. I'm not super woo-woo, but I feel like it's very masculine, feminine energies that you have to shift back and forth. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. I am reading the Let Them Theory right now. Have you read that book? I haven't read it, but everyone says I need to. It is. It's so good and I told Mattias he should read it too. In one of the chapters, she talks about how adults really, most adults, unless you had amazing parents that taught you actually what to do with your emotions, are mostly at the emotional maturity of an eight-year-old child. Adults tend to respond very similarly to children if they're not getting something they want or it's not happening fast enough, like throwing a tantrum or shutting down, those kinds of things. It's true. We're not that far off from our kids. Right. One thing I feel good about, though, with working is one reason I really wanted to get into real estate is because my grandma, she was at all of my sporting events, all of my plays when I was in high school, all my graduations, everything. She may have been on the phone, but she was there. Always showed up. She would take two days off to travel across the state to watch me in some athletic event. She was always there. I knew that that was a life that I wanted to be able to build, was that I didn't have to ask for time off to go watch my little kid's program. I didn't have to ask for time off to go to a volleyball game in the future, that kind of thing. I also want to show her that if you want to do something like real estate or entrepreneurship, you can do it. You just have to put your mind to it. I want her to see that mom loves working and mom loves being a mom. You can love both things at the same time.

I got to say, Cheyenne, I've been sitting here, because one of the stories I've told myself is that her being the preferred parent has a lot to do with her being a mom. There's the connection that mothers have. She's also a therapist, so soft, easy, all the time. Not all the time. That's not true. But I really appreciate you saying what you did. I think it really strikes me as that's been some BS that I've been telling myself, and that I can do better. I can try to help figure out more how to be more for my kids or to shift. That's definitely something that I've wanted to let the gender kind of thing and the parental role kind of explain a way where there is just something that I can maybe work on a little bit more. Not that I knew that to some degree, but whoever puts the most time in with the kids is going to have that extra connection with them. That's definitely something that you have, for the most part. Here recently, maybe case in point here, but here recently, Erica had a meniscus tear, and she couldn't really put our son down. He's almost three because he would fall asleep, and then she couldn't hold him and move him from the rocker. I was doing it every night, and I was forced to do it every night, but now we're tight. It's just a good reminder that you really get out of life what you invest in. I appreciate that perspective coming from you. That really means something to me. I was curious, did you feel that yesterday? I was watching this when we were all in the kitchen, and I was thinking our entire family was in the kitchen. Everybody's cooking something different. I was making sourdough bread, and you were with Ayla making dinner, and Azra was making cookies on her own. You guys were there and present with each other, and you were really involved with it. It seemed like everybody was really enjoying it, too. Yeah, yeah. I think it's just one of those, in our season, I was also just coming off of a really, really, really busy spring, a busier spring than normal. I think there's just seasonality with our business as well, and trying to be, I guess, more intentional when you can is another. Having the boundaries, but also understanding that sometimes it's just going to be, you got to make hay when the sun shines, right? Right, yeah. One of my friends that I spoke with, she had a good point. She said, as a mom or a parent in real estate, you can have it all, but you can't have it all all the time. So you have to find, like you said, in your seasons, am I in a season right now where it's a work push? And then you talk to your family, like, okay, this is a short term. This is a busy season. It's a work push season. I'm going to be less available at home. But then taking advantage of those seasons where it's not. For us, it's winter. So I try to take way more time off in the winter, take my family on vacation, things like that, so we're more intentional with our time, and just go in with the understanding that, okay, this moment. Right now, mom's in a push season. So it's just really, like you said, finding the balance in those seasons and making the most of the time where you can be more available. That's so true. It's interesting, too, because the push season for me as a therapist happens between Thanksgiving and New Year's. Oh, sure. Everyone's with their families. Everybody's having a hard time. But it is when you guys are much more free and available. That being intentional is another huge thing. So I'm in this kind of accountability, mastermind group. One of the ideas that another guy did was, A, that he tries to track having 10 minutes of undistracted time with his kids a day with the hope that it would be more. You sit your phone down for 10 minutes, and you're going to engage with them, and that's going to help. So that's been a cool practice. But another one that he did that I've been trying to implement as well is having a special mom-free outing overnight, ideally once a quarter.

So we've kind of had our life kind of get thrown off balance here. But I need to do one with the girls yet, at least. I don't know if that's going to be camping or what. But even in the hecticness of the busyness of the spring, summer season, I think you could still probably get a weekend away or a night away with your kids. So the thing that I want to keep going as well to kind of keep that special relationship time with them. I love that. I love putting it as a mark on your daily tracker. That's a really good idea. And you don't want to think of your family as that. But sometimes if you don't put it on the list, it gets pushed as, well, I need to get this other thing done. But does it really need to get done right now? Probably not. So it's good to have that. I love that idea. But it's hard, I think, in this world to step back and take that time away because it is competitive. There are so many other realtors out there trying to do the same thing that you are. And if you go on social media for five minutes, everybody's selling a house every minute. And then you think, oh man, well, I need to be doing what this person's doing or advertising like this person's doing or sending mailers like this person's doing. And then it's like, yeah, try to do everything. And then you forget about, why do you even do the work? Right. If it's not for making a way to spend more time and be more present with your family, why was everything worth it? Yeah, I did want to ask you, working with your grandparents, has that opened up any new opportunities for just a different kind of relationship with them? What has that been like? Yeah, it's been really cool. So like I said, I started with them, it's been seven years. And at first, it was very much I was just learning as I went, followed them around, went to appointments and got to see what I had always seen from the outside, my grandma doing, got to see it from the inside. And I learned a ton. And it's just fun to have that. It's just a special relationship to have. I feel very honored to take on and continue the business she has built for decades, because it's quite an opportunity that I don't think very many people get. And it's fun that we can go to lunch and we can talk about some things like silly that my brother did at dinner the other night. And then we can talk about how I'm handling a home inspection request. So it's just a fun relationship. That's really cool. Yeah. Do you have something? Go ahead. No, I was so I'm trying to get a picture for how big your family is. Are there a lot of other grandchildren in this picture? And you mentioned your brother. How many are close by in the area? So for my parents, I have four full siblings, and then my mom has three and my dad has two. So there's a lot of us. Yeah, out in the world. But for my grandma, it would be the four or six of us. And we all have very different. And it's just fun to I think at first I was nervous about working with family that it would affect our dynamics, but it hasn't at all. Yeah, I love it. It's a really unique way to get to know your grandma in a different way. I think sometimes, particularly with grandparents, we only know them in their older phase of life and maybe not even in their working phase of life. We just hear about it through stories. It's cool that you get to live some of that with her. It is. And one story I tell pretty often is when I first started in real estate, I was going to show some houses and I told her where I was going and she said, you're not going to show a house there. I was like, why am I not going to show a house there? It's everything my buyers want. She said, Cheyenne, that subdivision was built over a mine and it's probably going to fall in someday. And I said, okay, I guess I won't show any houses there. And literally, I think it was like two, maybe three years ago now, the subdivision started sinking. No way. Yep. So just that knowledge and history of the area is huge.

So especially if I'm going into a new subdivision that I'm not very familiar with, I'll ask, hey, what do you know about this? What do I need to know about this? And it's just, it's such a big benefit for our clients. Wow, that's incredible. Yeah, that's crazy. I thought you were going to say like an Indian burial ground at first. An actual mine. Wow. It's very bad. So I guess this is kind of for my own curiosity, but so my parents lived in South Dakota, I believe, for a little bit. I have never been up to that area. My parents live in Kansas now. And of course, we live in Virginia, but I'm just curious how you would describe the culture where you live, any major themes that run through just the people that you work with and what's kind of expected there? Absolutely. So I love living here. I've been here my whole life, except for a short stint in Nebraska for college. And what I love about South Dakota, especially Western South Dakota, we like to pick on Eastern South Dakota, of course, but we are kind of like a big, small town. Really all put together, we have fewer people than a city. Our whole entire region. So it's kind of everybody knows everybody. Everybody really treats people, people treat people well here and really care about one another. It's just a friendly environment. I feel like I can go downtown in our city and I know like all the business owners and everyone's pretty supportive of one another. It's just a big, small town and we're all just proud to be members of the Black Hills community. Oh, cool. That does sound a little bit like what my experience and my parents, probably their experience in Kansas. They also live in a very small town and it's just it's very friendly. It's very open and generally pretty safe too. Yeah, it is here. And that's one thing I so I live, like I said, in a real small town. And one thing I said I sometimes take for granted is that I can go out on a walk at like five in the morning or nine o'clock at night and I'm never nervous. I'm never afraid. I'm, I mean, more afraid of like a mountain lion or something. But it's just a nice feeling. And that's why we chose to raise our kid in a small town like that. Just because everything I hated about it as a teenager are the things I like about it as a parent. Oh, how interesting. I have a, I have a attorney in town that for settlements that he's from, I think, Michigan and or I think Michigan or around there. He's a big Michigan fan at least. But anyway, so we had, I have another really good friend from Illinois that, that came in and he just talked a little bit, like they just had a little bit of a conversation and he just looks at me. He's like, you're from the Midwest, aren't you? And he's like, yep. He's like, I can tell you're a good person. Oh, that's perfect. It's so funny. But yeah, people are really nice. And we have, we're in a tertiary market ourselves. And there's a lot of benefits to that, like to having, you know, we're not seeing the first movers and we're not seeing the huge spikes or, you know, huge falls either in the markets. So it's definitely, there's some advantages to that for sure. Absolutely. We had a big spike during COVID. Of course, everyone was moving here from especially like Colorado, California. We had just had a big influx during that time and it did affect our population and our housing prices pretty significantly. So our housing market has been tough for first time buyers, but I know that's basically across the board from what I hear market-wise. One cool thing about working and investing here is a lot of times like for my rentals, like, oh, I know your mom. I'll just call your mom if you don't pay your rent, you know, that kind of thing. Yeah. So have you all gotten into a lot of investing as well? I would say I'm a very mini investor. So our first house that we bought, we were living in a, we were living in my family's place and I joke, we lived in a single-wide down by the river because we quite literally did live in a single-wide down by the river.

And it was great. We were 21. We didn't have anywhere to go and it was perfect. But a couple of years later when I was pregnant, we needed something different. So we bought a fixer upper house and we fixed that up, refinanced, used that to pay off debts. And then a year later we needed a bigger house. So then we bought that house and we just rent out that first fixer upper house. And then we did a flip and we used our flip money to buy a fourplex. And from there, we've just kind of been waiting. We're not super risky investors, I would say, like we haven't ever taken on like hard money or investor money. We've just done it all ourselves, which I know we could really grow if we wanted to go in that direction. But just for this season, it was like, well, we're just going to wait to take that on. No, it's such a great way of having a retirement plan and trying to build up that escaping the rat race. Because even if we are self-employed, it is still a bit of a rat race. And being work optional is always a great place. I'm too busy. I don't think I could just drop everything. I need something to do to climb, if you will. But yeah, kind of building up that portfolio as you go just really is amazing. Yeah. My husband always jokes when I get overwhelmed, I'm like, I'm just going to quit. I'm going to sell everything. We're going to run away to a beach. He's like, yeah. But then, Cheyenne, you try to be the mayor of the beach town, start a job. And then you do all these things. You just would never relax. I'm like, oh, that's probably true. I do have to ask if you have any golden nuggets you want to share with our listeners. It could be for first time agents or new agents, I mean, or seasoned ones or anything that comes to mind. Absolutely. So the first thing I would say to a new agent is make sure you have a mentor. Don't just hop in to the business without being around people that have been in it for a long time that are willing to offer you support. I tell everyone that I feel like I was put at least five years ahead being with my grandma and being I'm in a very established office. So being here with so many seasoned agents, I feel I was really able to learn quickly and learn what not to do even faster. And for seasoned agents, so I'm in year seven now. I wish I would have started delegating two years ago, at least. So I would say don't be afraid to start delegating and make that first hire and even hire a coach to help you if you need to, because it's really going to be a game changer. Yeah, there's been a lot of people that have done this before us, and it's huge to take advantage of that. Why slam your head into the ground to try to learn it yourself if you can learn from others and what worked well for them? I love it. Absolutely. And have a lot of fun, get yourself in real estate jail. Yes, that too. Speaking of learning from others, are there books that you recommend that you think our agents should read as a fundamental thing or ones that you're enjoying now? Yeah, the best book I would say I read as for real estate and investing was Rich Dad, Poor Dad. I'm sure that's been echoed on here often, but it really was the biggest one for me to change my mindset. Yeah, 100%. If you're not from an entrepreneurial family, which I was not, and my dad was a professor, so it's kind of perfect for that story, right? But yeah, it's just a whole different mindset. I hear it's a completely fake story that he made up to sell board games, but it's really effective. But it makes sense. Oh, yeah, no, but it's a really good... Yeah, because it's a story, the message lands more, and it's really good. Cheyenne, if people wanted to follow you on social media or find you, want to invest or buy in your area, where can they find you? Yeah, so my brand is all based around South Dakota, so our 605 area code. So if you find me on Instagram, it's my name, @CheyenneSummer605, so at @CheyenneSummer605. Very simple. And you can find me that way on my website, too, at CheyenneSummer605.

com. For Facebook, it's Cheyenne McGrath, but it's with our team. So the Soderquist team is where I am on Facebook. I'm most active on Instagram. And my podcast, you can find it on Instagram as well, but it's called The Real Estate Mama Collective. Okay, cool. Love it. Awesome. Thanks, Cheyenne. I really appreciate you joining us today. It's been so good to talk to you. Well, thank you, guys. This is so fun. You guys are so awesome and easy to talk to, so thank you. Maybe I can be a mom on your podcast sometime. You know, we need all perspectives. Yeah, thanks so much. Thank you. Thanks for listening to the REI Agent. If you enjoyed this episode, hit subscribe to catch new shows every week. Visit REIAgent.com for more content. Until next time, keep building the life you want. All content in this show is not investment advice or mental health therapy. It is intended for entertainment purposes only.

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