#If this has errors in it pls don't be afraid to point them out

[rook-o-nines]

Robert McKee's Thematic Square: My Analysis

I've been doing some research lately on story structures. This article by Campfire was great for giving me a basic summary at a cursory glance of a lot of different kinds! However, I felt stumped by Robert McKee's Thematic Square.

It's described as more of a writing guideline for character work than precisely a structure, especially useful for pantsers. I'm mostly a plotter, but I was still intrigued! I'll take any tool I can get for character writing!

But the explanation given here, along with other, contradictory descriptions I found elsewhere, left me feeling confused and frustrated. So, I tried my hand at breaking it down! I don't expect my understanding to explain it perfectly either; it might miss the mark. However, I hope this can be a useful writing tool on its own, if not for understanding McKee's work!

Okay, so this is Campfire's graphic of the Thematic Square. Since it is arranged like a graph, I did what I love best: turn it into a Punnett square/alignment chart!

The horizontal axis should be understood as "Morality" or "Honesty". The Thematic Square gets really into another literary concept, which is the idea of characters believing in the "Truth" or the "Lie". The Truth is a fundamental idea about the universe which generally works as a moral principle to live by and is supported by objective evidence. The Lie is a misunderstanding about the universe, whether that be accidental (such as due to trauma or prejudice) or intentional (for selfish gain or willful ignorance). The left side of this chart should be labelled under Truth, while the right side of this chart should be labelled under Lie.

The vertical axis should be understood as "Proactivity" (or something similar I can't think of a good title for this axis pls send help lol). Essentially, characters are either active (acting on their beliefs first) or passive/reactive (only acting on their beliefs if provoked or engaged with, sometimes not feeling very strongly about their beliefs). The top half of this chart should be labelled under Active, while the bottom half of this chart should be labelled under Passive.

Following along so far? Take a minute to make sure you understand before continuing, and please don't be afraid to ask questions about my crack theory lmao.

Okay, now that we have our axes set up, we can cross them and see what we find in each box!

In the Positive quadrant is the cross of Active and Truth. Characters in this corner understand a fundamental, moral truth about the universe, and act on it accordingly. Be the change you want to see in the world! These are commonly known as "heroes" around these parts. Under ideal circumstances, they're even our paragons of virtue (Overly Sarcastic Productions ftw), such as Captain America or Superman. They believe in the right thing to do, so they do it.

In the Contradictory quadrant is the cross of Active and Lie. These are our antagonists, often even our villains. These characters don't understand the truth about their world, but they act just as much as the heroes do. They perpetuate dangerous and false beliefs, in direct opposition to the protagonists.

In the Contrary quadrant is the cross of Passive and Truth. This corner had always been described as the "path of least resistance", or as I like to think of it, "centrism" (pls don't take that too seriously lol). Characters here may understand the truth of their world, but they aren't really going to do anything about it. If it's not convenient to them, they can understand all they want, but they won't enforce their beliefs or be much help. It can be tempting for protagonists to take this path when the going gets tough, because they can still claim their morals without actually having to put up a resistance against the antagonists.

In the Negation quadrant is the cross of Passive and Lie. I like to think of protagonists who fall into this as those experiencing their "eleventh hour". It's the combo punch of allowing the worst to happen, and believing that evil must be the only way. Resistance is not only inconvenient, but futile, so what's the point in trying to push for a naive belief? These characters allow the evil force to wash over them and win (even if only temporarily).

I am now also of the opinion that, unless something really dramatic happens, characters should not be able to move "diagonally" across the board. I suppose a huge revelation of some kind could be enough to shake people from one corner to the complete opposite one in short time, though!

Essentially, if you want to break a character down from the Positive quadrant, you first must get them to become Passive, then introduce the idea that the Lie is correct. Show them both at the same time, and they'll probably reject that direction. As for your writing, making both occur at the same time would come off as forced. If you really want to make them go from hero to zero, you can complete the negative character arc with them ending up in the Contradictory quadrant.

Likewise, I think a villain on a redemption arc is likely to go from Active and Lie, to Passive and Lie, to Passive and Truth, then end on Active and Truth (it does not have to work that simply or linearly ofc).

The main instance I can think of a character jumping from one Active quadrant to the other (Truth to Lie or Lie to Truth) is if being Proactive is more important as a value to them than being Honest.

My favorite example of this is Sevika from Arcane! She starts on the "good guys'" side, working as a henchman to the boss trying to bring peace to their people. But when he doesn't act the way she thinks he should, she switches teams without much internal conflict about the morality of it. She wants change, which means her most important value is being Active, not with Truth or Lie. That's such a specific case, however, I struggle to think of many other characters (especially non-henchman kinds) that fit this paradigm shift!

In any case, those are my thoughts on the matter! I really wanted to understand this Thematic Square. I'm not sure I still do as McKee intended. However, I feel I've learned a lesson about carving my own path to understanding and relating my new ideas to stories I know! Hopefully someone else can make sense and use of my ramblings too lol. Thx for reading!

[brilliantfantasticgeronimo]

joy to the world

i tried to watch this one when it came out but couldnt get through it. let's try to get it over with…

opening with ww in england gives me such automatic zzzzzes . (explenation: the problem when u like doctor who so much is that by this point ive seen / read / heard So Much doctor who that every story is competing with every other story. and there's been so much "ww england doctor who" that it's like… yeah yeah ok i've seen this. let's move on)

the other thing with this episode is i'm already prejudiced against it because from the premise, i just think of el ministerio del tiempo, and how i could be watching that instead of this, bc although eMdT many times was a homage to DW, it ended up surpassing it many times sdkfj

(like in how DW is dead afraid of doing Pure Historicals bc they are "harder to do" since like, 4th's era and eMdT was 90% Pure Historicals)( with longer episodes even)

the Other thing is i think RTD made a tactical error by not asking for this special to be with ruby and 14, instead of a companion of the week. we rlly needed more time with ruby. even if it was her having a parallel storyline to this or smth. idk, i just feel like im gonna watch an hour of filler / something not connected to the main arc…. (happy to be proven wrong)

"two women in fact" "well that doesnt surprise" i have warmed up to moffat a lot of the year but this kind of frat boy humor of his…still grating lol

"democracy itself will fall" Topical Moment (tm) #1

THEME SONG!!!!!

imagine getting on the orient express after reading the orient express. that's like planes showing disaster movies on flight

(this montage is so euro-centric with its locations lol)

"there's always a door like that in a hotel, a funny locked one" the rl observation that inspired the story?

"i mena, i could just get a fridge" hehe

"AH YES, HABIT" I CRY / "never get used to them leaving" mood doctor. i miss ruby.

Ncuti has a way of delivering these moffatism where they are a lot more charming than grating dsklfj if eleven said "mysterious mr. you" or "special agent clint rock" i would be rolling my eyes sm

(no offense to matt smith since part of the ~mystique of eleven is that he was intentionally grating lol) (so like i Get It but i Enjoy this characterization more)

the thing with this montage is i felt it was kinda disorientating? the dialogue is trying to do A Lot as are the movements, but it's also like… the editing in these first 5 minutes it's too frantic for me. it's like cut-cut-cut-cut. pls dw i'm too old 4 this. i'm a novelera. i like sitting down.

fringe's Observer energy from the briefcase guy

"time hotel, what does that mean?" this. this is the line that made me stop the episode and put me on hiatus from being a whovian for 4 months. he would not fucking say that.

STOP TELLING ME WHAT EACH DOOR IS WHEN THE VISUALS MAKE IT OBVIOUS AHHHHH ( EL MINISTERIO NEVER COMITTED THIS SHOW-DONT-TELL-WHAT-YOU'VE-ALREADY-SHOWN SIN WITH ITS TIME DOORS!!!)

"why is there always an extra door and why is it always locked?? that's the way to the time hotel!!!" I GET IT!!!! YOU ALREADY STATED THIS, EPISODE!!!!! AHHH

yeah this was the thing sdklfjsd these 5 minutes of build up for such a literally obvious and KINDA PLAYED OUT trope made me so angry sldkfjsd i just couldnt get through it.

ok let me take a pause to calm down sdlkfjsd and get a snack

… ok arepas served. good faith restored. lets gooo

-"this is gonna be the least ive ever let somebody down" aw trev sdkfljds he's a mood

why did it loop back to the trailer scenes t.t ugh hh

" i went and let him down" The Long Running Companion Arc Moment (tm) #1

"i do like an explanation" ok um. hot.

"this is just like men all over" "ugh, i know!" GROANnns

"don't call him a lizard man" lines that Hit Different with a black doctor

rip she took the case. rip joy. i knew she had a charlie pollard energy lol

(the thing that kills me abt this ep is that so far the time hotel is just set dressing sdklfj saudades of the god complex utilizing its premise so well...)

GOD finally a Good Fucking Scene. "i love those guys, stay alive for those guys" MIRROR MOMENT #1 also!!! connects to how visually this was feeling like regeneration dust

"that was an implanted idea. you were being mansplained by that briefcase" groan. hated that lol

"with extreme prejudice" oi? eyes emoji? lines that hit different with a black doctor #2

"i'm not the future, he is the past" love the doctor being rude about himself lol

two-doctors-from-time-travel is such a moffatism too...

"THIS IS WHY NOBODY LIKES YOU! THAT'S WHY EVERYONE LEAVES YOU! THAT IS WHY YOU ARE ALWAYS ALONE!" someone pls. pls take 14 to therapy.

also i kinda have to stretch it a bit but i guesss i can see why this can be connected to The Moment he decides to leave ruby .bc instead of thinking about ruby at that moment with her mom, he was thinking of What Was The Doctor Thing To Say (tm) .(underlined: HE DECIDED to leave her. he's the one who decides to leave a lot of the time) (thats a points to work on ur therapy, fourteen)

"it's a long story, but basically…" lol love the doctor being an ass to himself (but again, therapy, son…)

"AND THERE AREN'T EVEN ANY CHAIRS" and there used to be chairs Sometimes T.T my poor blorbo…

"ha ha women and their diets" moment……….

RUBY SUNDAY NAMEDROP!!!!!!

"gotta let people get on with their lives" aghghghgkjhkjhkj

"it doesn't take me where i want to go" "but it takes you where you need to go" "why is my car blue now?" dkljsdklfj scream @ the doctor being a doctor who fan trying to get his roommate into doctor who.

"love it when the clocks go forward, don't you?" "i always have" mmmm. curious line

"online, mostly. for some reason there's loads of them" scream. my favorite line so far.

also lol nobody notice the conspiciously large box of tissue at the top of this clearly-emotionally-stable-man's table

lol i thought he was gonna steal the chair

"can't move if you're looking at them" this episode is curious bc obvs we know from interviews they always write specials with the intention of being seen by new people, but it also has like… a Ton of references per second. and their abundance feels kind of intentional.

(maybe it's an attempt to connect this more to the previous seasons after a lot of people complained about "s1"/s14 feeling disconnected? orrr maybe it says something about 14 still constructing his Sense of Identity after The Flux, and that mirroring the meta of how the show is needing to Construct a new identity beyond its past.

(show-within-a-show energy. we're back baby)

"chair night" sdkfdf. nerds

this montage is fun but the front desk lady feels kinda blank to me tbh so this whole "friendship" also feels kinda blank.

"what are you waiting for?" "nothing… nothing" lies lies lies yeah

"i dont have a boyfriend" EYES NARROW. UM EXCUSE ME CHEATER, WHAT ABOUT JONATHAN GROFF.

somewhere the master is boiling in rage that i didnt think of him first but instead thought of Bird Man lol

this is the thing tho… general take incoming… like: i really enjoy the long-running story, i enjoy this. but… i dont know, i also dont like when doctor who is only about the doctor. i think it gets too self-involved, and forgets to develop / make engaging as well the "of the week" aspect of doctor who, the fact you can tell new stories about new people all the time (like anita here who feels so much like a placeholder, and not a specific person… like she's a stand-in for the tropes she's supposed to evoke in the doctor) i think this show is best when it manages to do both, but i think 14's era has kinda struggled with that (tbh, i think we've struggled with that since like… series 4 with ten, that self-referential, self-involved tendency got worse with each season) (bar exceptions like s10 or s11,which intentionally tried to be less self-referential)

"you're married, aren't you?" laughs but also EYES EMOJI

"and dont be alone at christmas, because you dont need to be, cos ill be right here ". see this is what i mean sdklfj anita is so (unrealistically?)complacent it just mirrors my annoyance with how complacent and Convenient this "character" is to The Doctor's Story / The Long Running Arc, and it takes me out from what's being played by this actress in such an Earnest way. it's just, idk… like other things in this episode, it's not an Elegant writing structure. it feels too much like i'm seeing all the wires.

-(also wow this is such a frat boy fantasy isnt it. woman who dont demmand anything from their parnetsrs...)

and the other thing with this whole secuence like… again, i get what it is Doing, i like it in Theory, but it's like.. it's so idyllic and conflict-free, that again...it doesn't feel like a Real friendship.

"be kind. you'll miss her" i wont actually

"one year of you"long running companion arc moment #3

also half the episode wasn't spent with joy…

"when you explain things, do people tend to feel any better?" "not usually, no" we need new blood in the writer's pool…i feel like i've heard this same exchange 50 times…

"you would need one thing, time"

"you see a house, you can hide yourself" good line

the doctor is giving big arm-chair-internet-psycologist energy in this "u can tell a lot about a person from their hotel room choice" monologue.

which i know is not the intention. the intention is that we think he's being Super Clever and someone who has spent a year Knowing The Human Condition(tm) , but just like og sherlock holmes doing ""body lenguage analysis"" , this is not true deduction. and it's not scientific. and it's not true Understanding of people.

tho i guess altho the intention is the opposite… it works for a characterization of the doctor. he's someone who Knows A Lot about people, but doesn't always Understand them.

i think this is the most fascinating moment of the ep so far for me. we're getting a glimpse at 14's darkness. his smile when he tries to trigger joy to get into a shame spiral.. it's such a "14 scaring the babies for fun" in space babies moment..

(sdklfj the other thing about this show is it always Triggers something in my brain that makes it go BRRR so it's taking me 3 hours to watch a 1 hour episode. rip)

"because i let her down" trev parallel?

"i could never change that" yesss finally some good fucking specific characterization

"mums, ey?" STOP MAKING EVERYTHING ABOUT YOU 14 UGH

"there's not such thing as a bad way to save someone" there kinda is...this is going to become a Problem for 14 at some point….

VILLENGARD!!!!!

yeah yeah i get it . another "capitalism is bad story". how about doing some "socialism is good" stories for once, beebs/disney? oh right. you cant do that. bc to you , capitalism is good.

it's cool how this "consciousness uploading is terrifying" trope is been there since the library episodes, all the way to boom and here, isnt it? i think this is one of moffat's more successful recurring themes. i like it when it comes back

"you would need 65 million years" oh this is what i was trying to work out too when he worked out the briefcase sdlfkjs like dude, what a convoluted and inconvenient way to grow a star??? would any company actually do that??? then again, fossil fuels are actually irrational as well so maybe that's The Point lol

"i screwed up, joy" the other thing with this kind of doctor who episode is… the doctor is Figuring Stuff Out faster than i can even keep up.like all these Maneuvers (the two doctors paradox, the time lodger trope, this right now with him figuring out the briefcase, etc etc) that we've seen before in other time travel stories are being deployed here at lighting speed, so i'm not really getting a pause to enjoy the puzzle or The Mystery. there's not really enough time for me to enjoy the confusion or to try to work things out. because the doctor Has to be established as Smart in every scene.

i think it's also why i knew from the montage that i would struggle with this ep, bc part of what makes a lot of doctor who episode Work, since the classic days, is the sense of mystery, of arriving at one place and figuring out oh, "it's actually a filming stage!" or "the robots were actually people!" or, "oh! space titanic was actually an insurance scheme!!" but it's like in this ep (and a lot of eps in New Who)… those mysteries aren't actually "unveiled", just literally there in the title of the ep.

(struggled to articulate that point but i hope it made some kind of sense)

"and renewed hope for the future, however, im dead"

im also taking a lot of time bc i need to go back every few lines to understand what was being said… this show needs to learn again how to Slow Down…

rotational mavity!

hell yeah sentient stars / planet trope my beloved

"to her" i knew they were going to do this since the montage dsklfj only the gays like to read after all.

"why did you take it?" "because it was there" stop trying to make everything into A Line(tm)… not everything needs to be A Line (tm)…

it would have been funny if they had put the dinosaur during the goodbye "mission complete sir" moment lol

"im not dying, im changing (…) and you need to change too" "EXCUSE ME????" LMAO BURN -"you stayed in that room for a year" yuppp

aww this is very nice with everyone looking at the same star (if a bit sad bc we've killed all star-gazing with our light-polluting lol) but this is also a thing i think DW excels at, which is having these kind of carl sagan "making peace with our place in the universe", it's why altho this show is not Hard Scifi, i really always insist that it should be thought of as scifi and not fantasy or fairy tale fiction… bc it still rlly, rlly shines when it does the Themes of scifi that place us in the univ - OH MY GODrubyRUBYRUBSYDFKSDHKJ!!!!!!! AHHHHHH (Throws a chair)

"hi, mom" i sCREAM

"would you be interested in working at the time hotel?" ok but here's another thing that like. sdlkfj rubs me off about this premise. would the doctor really let something like a time hotel stay up? the time hotel is iffy. it's also a Business. more than the whole briefcase thingy, there was a whole storyline about disaster-tourism (and about Messing With History) here waiting to be told that just… wasnt the focus of the episode, for some reason???

ok this is the other side of the coin of the "uploading a consciousness" device with moffat that i Dont Like slkdfjsd but im tired of writing sdklfjfdffdf so just copy+paste the classic critique about "moffat cant kill off characters/follow the theme of "everything has its time" and lets move on.

cant believe baby jesus died bc he held a briefcase.

well,altho this was an episode i Struggled with, tbf from the lenght of this post u can tell it clearly had a lot of food in it lol

i appreciate the things it was trying to do with the themes of loneliness and self-esteem (even if in execution i also found them lacking). i also liked all the beats about the long running arc, jonathan groff moment, etc…

but… i wish it wasn't all that there is, you know? joy was underutilized. anita and trev had charm, but they were also underdeveloped and Way too Obviously meant to say something about the long running companion arc, rather than being good characters first….

and i feel the concept of a "time hotel" evokes a specific magical-realism atmosphere aspect that wasnt utilized well… hell in the end the whole "hotel" aspect was more set-dressing and an excuse for the complicated "time bags" mechanics. (which sucks bc i love hotel-fiction…)

(another thing is i really disagree with rtd and company is that that christmas specials are "necessary". and thus all this insistence that "you shouldnt be alone at christmas" and etc. there's something very conservative, rigid and hegemony-building about the whole notion.

(you can actually be alone at christmas. i promise it's fine. you dont even need to celebrate christmas. in fact most of the world doesnt.)

i apreferred chidbnall's choice to have the festive episodes at new years, which not only is a more open and fun celebration, but also has a theme of "renewal" which is more fitting for the current stage that the long running arc is at rn (more so than the theme of "loneliness", imho). but oh well, i guess this is one of those things that's pointless to complain about bc it looks like something management is very set on keeping)

anyway… 7.5/10? maybe? it would be an 9/10 if it did things just a little different sdkfl

[meatballsub-senpai]

Behold, I am in your askbox again!

Tell me about Mafuyu and KAITO pls

OKAY OKAY SO

Empty SEKAI was the last one to get all their vocaloids (i should note this was over a year out-of-game after the 4th unit to finish, and even then the 4th unit to finish was vbs whose vocaloids have canonically all been there the entire time just not part of the story until later). They got Rin/MEIKO/Luka in their 2nd-4th events and then there was nothing. For ages. While all three do take from Mafuyu, Rin is more based on Ena, MEIKO takes from Mizuki, and Luka is kind of a composite character who spawned in as less of an emotional response and more of a person who will move the narrative forward.

Len and KAITO are the ones who take after Mafuyu, so it makes sense that they were the last to show up, and that they didn't show up until two of the events that were most pivotal in Mafuyu's arc: Guiding a Lost Child to What Lies Beyond (Mafuyu's 3rd event) and immiscible discord (Kanade's 3rd event). I'll skip over Len and go straight to immiscible discord.

ID is the event where Mafuyu's mother finds Nightcord on Mafuyu's computer, and then creates an account to contact Kanade, asking if she can kick Mafuyu from N25 because she's worried it will affect her grades. Mafuyu's mum really starts to crack down on Mafuyu's music activities and screentime from this point on, and then KAITO shows up in response to her buried anger.

Mafuyu before KAITO had never really considered that her mother could be a cause of the problem. Like, she feels way more comfortable around N25 than her mum, but she loves her mum and her mum loves her and there's no way this could be her fault, right? When Mafuyu is struggling with her feelings after her mum finds out about Niigo, KAITO just shows up. Like this:

He's not fucking about. Basically he walks in and immediately tells Mafuyu she needs to accept her mum is the problem and actually take action. He specifically says he's not going to "baby" Mafuyu like the rest of them. Mr Plot Progression if you will. Moreso than Luka because while she can be very blunt and honest, she's still more gentle than KAITO.

KAITO and his connection to Mafuyu is. Interesting to say the least. He was born from her repressed anger, something that even now she still hasn't quite let out. He is the one who has pushed Mafuyu's character development the most though, he helped her see the error of her mother's ways, he helped her run away, so those repressed emotions are still being expressed through KAITO (and herself, but kaito is waaaay more angry than mafuyu herself has ever expressed).

Kaito himself is pretty interesting just from looking at his mindset. He's forceful with them, but for their own good. He isn't afriad to be brutally honest with n25 and tell them what they have to do. He's the complete opposite of meiko, who leaves n25 alone and just watches them work out their problems on their own, and this is something they clash about in the current Mizuki event. Kaito wants Mizuki to open up about what she's hiding because it's what will be best for her and believes Meiko leaving her will mean nothing will ever change, but Meiko doesn't want to rush Mizuki into anything she isn't ready for and thinks Kaito's push will hurt Mizuki.

Kaito is flawed. He's angry and blunt and pretty rude, but he has n25's best interests at heart. He's just... not great at being gentle about it. He wants them to heal but he doesn't exactly get why they don't just get on with it. He sees where the issues are and what needs to be done and tells them to do it. He thinks about what will benefit them in the long run and isn't afraid if his words hurt because it's just for a few minutes, if you get what I mean.

Also in this event, he says that Mizuki needing to move forward is necessary for Mafuyu which is particularly worth noting. He does care about Mizuki's feelings, that's made abundantly clear by his confrontation with her, but he also is thinking about Mafuyu still. And I mean can you blame him that's literally why he exists. He does care about the other n25 members and the other vsingers and isn't as rude and mean and he seems (tsundere lol), but Mafuyu very much is at the top of his priority list.

Anyway yeah! Niigo kaito is cool! The only events he's in on EN currently are immiscible discord and Sayonara Persona (i forgot the official title it's like Farewell My Mask or something) but he's a major character in the Kanade event that will release on EN this December and the Mizuki event that will arrive on EN in a year. He's also in Niigo's World Link event (which will be on EN next month) but he's not that important to it.

[sparklingpax]

HIIIII following a recent question I got (keep lookout for another post like this answering the other one sometime in the future, y'all 😌), I'm taking this opportunity to Finally explain specifics & thoughts I have about how Landiver works as a ship in my mind, why I ship them etc. No it's not justification because I will not be Not shipping these idiots anytime soon, Landiver and Ginhawk are two of like six total ships from all my fandoms that live rent-free and undebatably permanently in my mind thanksss <3

and so yea on that note, any of yall reading this don't have to agree with everything I say!! (Pls don't tell me what you disagree with tho I'm not gonna stop you from thinking what you will and all opinions are valid esp in the realm of like, fan-interpretation of fictional characters, but I am so full of anxiety I will be afraid and scared; I am just begging, don't point out what you don't agree with just leave me beeeeee)

I also realize a lot of this is my personal interpretations of them, which may or may not be entirely accurate (tho to be fair, we only rlly did get glimpses of who the pretenders rlly are as ppl, considering how plot-heavy a series it was; I'd say Hawk got the most attention in terms of that and even he doesn't get as much expansion as I'd have liked 😭) so....there's a lot of room for said interpretation imo.

But yea anyway, I'm talking purely canon Landiver (not gonna get into my AU anytime soon because it's relatively similar to this with more focus on different details bc they have different pasts and such in that....so yea)

Without further ado, my rambles are below the cut. Apologies for any grammatical errors, I typed this on my phone on the bus going home and while laying on my bedroom floor 😭✨

Enjoy! :']

///

I think they work as a ship for a bunch of reasons (I'm only gonna mention some of my thoughts about this because I don't wanna go on for too long 😳)!!!!!

One, their personalities being somewhere in the middle of "opposites" and "the same." Like not "yin and yang" kinda thing but they're also not the same type of person either. Lander might be more confident, talkative, and quicker to get emotional/heated about things compared to an exponentially more easy-going and level guy like Diver. But Diver isn't shy or unemotional, and he is most certainly confident in himself. Both of them Give 0 fucks™ but in different ways, I guess. In that regard, I feel like they also mix very well personality-wise. Lander is more interested in doing the talking, the ranting, etc. Diver says what he needs to in shorter ways in general, prefers listening and making input here and there, chuckling while Landmine fumes about some guy at work. However he might also be slightly more wordy when talking to Lander. Conversely, Lander might be more chill and show the "softer" sides of himself with Diver, the side that loses that usual "cool, confident, smooth guy" composure for example. Fumbles up his usual fast-paced talk because he's distracted w the guy in front of him (when they're in a mostly romantic mood, that is) Lander is certainly more organized and can be a little uptight about things going as they were planned to, whereas Diver (like me lmao 😭) is kind of just perpetually confused a little bit, and just going with it. But see, it doesn't seem that way because he always has this look about him that says to the outside world that he's got this and he is not fazed. He forgets stuff a lot, spaces out, dozes off, etc. Lander's got his back with that tho ✨

Diver isn't as emotional as Lander, so he's a great touchstone for Lander to center himself when he starts to panic or flip out about something. And he only lets himself do that with Diver because he feels like he can. And, being with Lander for so long has encouraged him to express himself and be emotional in his own way more often than before they met. Slowly, over time.

They have different interests for the most part, and aren't going to pretend they want to adopt every single one of each other's interests, but they have a mutual understanding of that, and enjoy the difference in tastes. So they just let each other be. Little things like: Lander's a city person, Diver's a nature guy. Lander prefers style and flashiness, Diver just wants what works, and doesn't mind. Lander is watching like five different dramas at once when he's not working his day job or out on missions, and Diver enjoys reading more (which might be because he's out on be boat or busy doing lots of really hands-on work with aquariums and such for his day job, spending less time than his partner does in an office doing paperwork). Diver will easily take a beer over an expensive wine Lander might've found, and Lander likes finer-quality alcohol, but both would be willing to have the other thing if they're hanging out together and one really wants to have their thing that night. And, they both love a good fistfight, enjoy physical touch as a primary (Diver) or secondary (Lander; his primary is actually gift-giving) love language, drinking, and collect cassette tapes together ✨

Also quick aside, but I HC they chose human bodies that put them around mid-to-late-40s. This is interesting because for example, Hawk has a body that puts him at like 23 (yes specifically 23 don't ask 😳) in human years, and Phoenix is mid-30s. Then we have the other humans characters who are actually just their age (Ginrai is 19, etc...) However, in Cybertronian years, the Pretender team are relatively like the same age, give or take a [cybertronian] year. This is another reason they are so easily connected in a way, because both in human years and cybertronian, they're around the same age, but especially as humans, they'd be not rlly old or super young. Idk how to describe it properly but maybe you know what I mean?? 😳

They are also incredibly playful with one another--always have been. Like, lowkey harassing one another (affectionately) and constantly joking around/making witty quips back and forth in their way, with a specific type of energy no one else has. In fact, they have energies that match in a way where they are as they always have been: like old friends. No one else quite gets it. They're just....a pair. Always together, which I feel like even in the anime you see them fooling around together and perpetually side by side. (Take that one bit where Diver grabs Lander and like ruffles up his hair....i love their vibe sm 😭✨)

They never descend into a serious argument because even their constant "bickering" isnt really bickering at all and more just making comebacks at one another over something on which they disagree, until one bursts into laughter and the other follows.

[Landiver in general is a whole different vibe to say, Ginhawk, both having intimately sweet moments but in very different ways.]

They are more than willing to bring it up when they don't like something/have something to talk about, not worried even for a moment what the other will think, because it will always be the safest place to simply talk it out amongst themselves. They would be hard-pressed to trust anyone else when either have somth serious to discuss. Maybe (hard maybe) Phoenix, since he's usually hanging out with those two when he's around (which is just not that often at all, I'll get into that in the other thread haha) and is somewhat a close friends...but usually it's just Lander and Diver. However even s, they rarely ever have to because they don't really have lines to cross with each other...they do not hold back when goofing around in their definitely shared sense of humor 😭💀✨

Also, I feel like it took them an extremely long time to actually formally get together just because...like, they've always been together anyway, but didn't really know how to go about,,, relationships in the official sense--if that was even something they wanted. It was on and off and on and off again for a while, Lander and Diver trying other relationships with other people for a long time (especially in the period of time after being separated to the different parts of the country once Lander got his new job over in New York and left where he'd been with Diver, again a whole separate thing I have HCs for which I touched on in my "In Relativity" fic; on that note I wanted to mention in both my AU and in canon, I HC Lander as bi and Diver as gay ✨). But they always found it didn't really....connect. over and over, both of them coming back together but not really being sure what it even was they had...and then something happens where it just clicks, and they realize, that...there isn't really anything else they should do. They do belong beside one another. They can be true only with each other, because when they are together, they are "home." As friends in a deeper, more intimate sense of that. Partners....lovers. But always friends, because they both think the whole relationship labels thing puts a wrench in the vibes. It's just very complicated to explain for them, but there's never been any kind of malice or struggle between them other than coming to the final conclusion how the answer has always been in front of them. They've known each other for centuries in our human terms, and they know they've been together forever in a sense, but sometimes it feels like they've known each other even longer.

(When they finally, formally got together, Ginrai and Phoenix just nodded to one another, like they've been waiting for this for ages, and Phoenix playfully punches Diver, who just starts laughing. Hawk, the other godmasters and the kids, are all just happy for the two)

(⁠◍^w^◍⁠) 💗✨