#Jonsa Crack

[kalmaroth]

[paloma-nevada]

[amaltheas-garden]

not me finding out Ladyhawke is one of grrm's favorite fantasy films...

about the romance between a woman who takes the form of a hawk by day and her lover who becomes a wolf at night (and dresses exclusively in black and red 👀)

man I hope there isn't a character in asoiaf strongly connected to bird imagery sansa bird warg truthers rise up who may or may not fall in love with a dude trapped in a wolf's body whose secret father's house colors are red and black...

[akarena]

Me with Jon in season 8

[kalmaroth]

[paloma-nevada]

[alaynestcnes]

finally finished my asos reread. i forgot how diabolical the last chapters are like what do you mean we get deeply introspective jon admitting to his desires for winterfell and lordship and children and comparing ghost to a weirwood and ‘he belonged to the old gods, this one’ and then denying all his desires bc winterfell belongs to the old gods too (and later these thoughts will become the declaration ‘winterfell belongs to my sister sansa’) and he chooses to deny his claim bc his love for the starks supersedes everything and then thinks of val up in her tower ‘i am not the man to steal you out of there’ (continuing his self denial and denying himself the role of the romantic hero) and then immediately he’s raised up to lord commander and then next chapter we get sansa as a bastard (their swapped social positions are full circle now) abruptly waking up to snowfall and being drawn to the yard that was meant to be a godswood but no weirwood can take root and ‘the eyrie was no home’ and ‘a godswood without gods, as empty as me’ and ‘she stepped out all the same’ and then the snow is like lovers kisses and like innocence and dreams and she literally rebuilds winterfell out of snow but her momentary peace is shattered by ‘dawn stealing into her garden like a thief’ and men who only want her for her beauty and claim and then she’s almost thrown out of a tower (later she will think of Jon explicitly for the first time since book 1). like oh my goddddd

[nobodysuspectsthebutterfly]

how do you feel about j*nsas stealing and appropriating your theory Frankenstein style? I know I’d be pissed but on the other hand it’s funny because it’s still their strongest “argument” haha

It makes me laugh, honestly. Especially the way many shippers -- who have evidently never read The Hedge Knight -- place so much importance on the Ashford Tourney, the Ashford fair maid, and the Targaryen champion! Like, Lord's Ashford's daughter is so significant, she doesn't even have a name. And the whole thing with Valarr Targaryen was that he was a pretty awful jouster, and only held onto the position as the fair maid's champion out of nepotism, because nobody good actually challenged him. (Though his cousin Aerion threatened to, before deciding to bully someone else.)

And the most significant point, that Valarr didn't come out of nowhere, defeat all the other champions, and crown the girl queen of love and beauty -- lol, not in the slightest, he was a champion from the start, and the way the tourney was set up was that at the end of the third day, whoever were the final five champions would either choose to keep Ashford's daughter as the QOLAB or select somebody else to be. And either way, that never happened, since during the first night Dunk and Aerion had their altercation, Dunk never saw who any of the champions were on the second day because he was in prison, and the third day the fair maid/champion tourney was canceled and they held his Trial of Seven instead. There was no queen of love and beauty at the end of the story!

Like, this tourney does not compare in significance to, say, the Tourney of Harrenhal. Historically, the fair maid means nothing, the Ashford Tourney is only remembered for the Trial of Seven that ended with Baelor's death. And I only happened to think it was a bit of a funny coincidence that four of the first day's champions matched Sansa's suitors (that's how you know it was taken from me despite claims of independent creation, it was known as "the Fifth Suitor theory") and thought it might be an even more funny coincidence if Aegon ended up pursuing Sansa as a bride after (or in the process of) claiming the throne, which was a common bit of speculation in 2012 after Aegon was revealed to be alive (presumably) in 2011's ADWD. And the whole point I had was how futile said champions were in the face of Dunk's actions, and well, *cough*.

But it was always just a crack theory, a silly coincidence. That they've imbued it with such significance, well, um. Good for them I guess. It's certainly less worse than pointing to Sansa Stark daughter of Rickon and her half-uncle Jonnel -- when most likely that was a forced marriage to steal an inheritance like the uncles of Alys Karstark attempted with her, and Jonnel had no children with either Sansa or his second wife, died, and two successive brothers became Lord of Winterfell before the youngest had any children to succeed him. That is not a historical model you want to follow, I'm sorry.

BTW, this post of mine also getting appropriated by jonsas also makes me laugh (2 for 2 lol my god), because the point of that parallel was that Jon is indeed a hero from the songs -- since again, in 2011 immediately post-ADWD there was a fandom reaction pushing Aegon up as the actual PTWP and such. (Well. The ones who didn't decide Victarion was Azor Ahai lol sigh.) And that Sansa's words were the foreshadowing ones, I thought was significant, again in response to fandom decreeing her unimportant. It was not to make Jon specifically Sansa's hero or lover or anything where is that implied I have no idea oh shippers oh fandom sigh sigh sigh 😂😅

[crimsoncold]

[emmatgc]

So true. Dark Jon is something else, too 🤣

Sansa: I’ve had a pretty serious week. I sure could stand to do something stupid.

Jon: I’m something stupid. Do me.

[sansaissteel]

Remember when Arya said Sansa needed a good Steward.

Jon snow: I agree 💯

Satin: I actu-

Jon: *shoves satin* My Sansa would probably do better with me.

Satin: but sam-

Jon: has a child to care for.

Sansa: aren't you a steward satin?

Jon: *meltdown*

Satin: not anymore

Jon:

[kalmaroth]

[esther-dot]

Tags via @elmotullystanaccount

Witch for @jonsa-halloween

[paloma-nevada]

[transdimensional-void]

The Ashford theory and Jonnel/Sansa marriage is enough of an evidence that if it was about Jon/Daenerys no one would be having any doubt 😂😂 also I cannot help but notice how so much jonsa foreshadowing is tied in with rlj, as you said about baelor breakspear and rhaegar, there is also Sansa betrothed to the dragon's heir, Sansa covering herself in a snow white cloak stained with blood and fire, and the prince aemon thing. In the family tree of the Starks too, there is jonos Frey being the third son of Rhaegar Frey. So GRRM often does foreshadow both these together, it's just that people see what they want to see.

no, you're so right. the two theories are really like this:

jon hearing about bael the bard stealing a winter rose from winterfell juxtaposed with sansa flowering for the first time? ygritte, the one telling jon the story, sharing a variety of features with sansa? everyone and their dog trying to steal sansa, a stark maiden, just like lyanna was stolen by rhaegar? jon thinking of sansa as a willowy creature awaiting rescue in a tower, exactly as lyanna was awaiting rescue in the tower of joy after giving birth to jon? val, the princess in a tower he was considering when sansa entered his thoughts, magically changing her hair and eye color when she's standing next to ghost to resemble sansa? arianne, yet another princess in a tower, having a bastard for a lover?

the list goes on and on...

because the thing is, not only does jonsa as a theory have some pretty powerful evidence, it has an overwhelming amount of evidence to support it.

this is one of the things that always strikes me about people who dismiss the theory. you never see them going through the compiled evidence piece by piece before dismissing the theory as impossible. they'll only address a single piece of evidence at a time, come up with an explanation for why that one piece of evidence is actually referring to something else or means nothing, and then declare the entire theory debunked. it's basically a straw man tactic, pretending that a single piece of evidence is the entire theory.

alternatively, they will simply declare people who believe in the theory "delusional" or "lacking in reading comprehension" without offering a single piece of evidence to support this declaration. you could call this an ad hominem attack, but at least most ad hominem attacks will try to convince you with some sort of evidence. this is truly just a lack of willingness to engage with the theory with intellectual honesty.

something i'd love to see an asoiaf youtuber make is a video where they go through the jonsa evidence piece by piece and analyze it on its merits. people have made such videos for literally every other asoiaf theory out there, including pure crack theories like merman varys.

and yet, despite everyone being sooooo convinced that jonsa is equally crack-y and easy to disprove, no one is willing to truly sit down with all the evidence and debunk each point one by one. to me, it's obvious that that's because 1) the video would be insanely long because there is just so much evidence, and 2) they're afraid of realizing that the theory is credible and that they've been misinterpreting a lot of things for a long time.

tl;dr - rlj is real. jonsa is real. someone, anyone please make a convincing effort to change my mind!

[unserenedreaming]

Can Jonsas stop stealing shit??

I just saw a post that used the quote Melisandre told to Jon Snow about the grey girl on a dying horse, and do you know who the post was about?

Not Alys Karstark, the girl who showed up to the wall on a dying horse

Not Arya Stark, the person Jon loves most in the world, the person he thinks of in his dying moments.

No, it was Sansa. The post was just tagged with Sansa's name, which is likely how it got in my recommended since I have all Jonsa stuff blocked already. But I think we all know it's a Jonsa post.

For the love of GRRM himself, please stop taking shit that is already established as being about characters and making it about Jonsa. I get it, you have no real textual context that your ship will end up together. And you know what? That's ok! I have so may crack ships! But you know what I don't do? I don't steal shit that is about other people to try and prove my crack ship is true! I accept that it won't happen but I can have fun with it anyways because I like the characters and their potential, even if that potential will never come to be. But it is a specfically Jonsa trait to steal metas about other, far more likely to occur couples (Jonrya & Jonerys especially) and make it about their crackship.

It's so tiring at this point.