#June/July 2015

[orangadore]

[properlittlefamily]

"Couldn't trust myself." His words.

[words-on-pages]

I just looked at the dates on my AO3 bookmarks and noticed that I get antsy and start looking for a new ship every 2ish years.

[kitchensinksurrealism]

that period of time between south park post covid being announced in 2021 to summer 2022 when everyone got obsessed with truffula flu was moderately heavenly

[voidimp]

god ive had jules for. almost seven years

[fatliberation]

they have a point though. you wouldn't need everyone to accommodate you if you just lost weight, but you're too lazy to stick to a healthy diet and exercise. it's that simple. I'd like to see you back up your claims, but you have no proof. you have got to stop lying to yourselves and face the facts

Must I go through this again? Fine. FINE. You guys are working my nerves today. You want to talk about facing the facts? Let's face the fucking facts.

In 2022, the US market cap of the weight loss industry was $75 billion [1, 3]. In 2021, the global market cap of the weight loss industry was estimated at $224.27 billion [2]. 

In 2020, the market shrunk by about 25%, but rebounded and then some since then [1, 3] By 2030, the global weight loss industry is expected to be valued at $405.4 billion [2]. If diets really worked, this industry would fall overnight. 

1. LaRosa, J. March 10, 2022. "U.S. Weight Loss Market Shrinks by 25% in 2020 with Pandemic, but Rebounds in 2021." Market Research Blog. 2. Staff. February 09, 2023. "[Latest] Global Weight Loss and Weight Management Market Size/Share Worth." Facts and Factors Research. 3. LaRosa, J. March 27, 2023. "U.S. Weight Loss Market Partially Recovers from the Pandemic." Market Research Blog.

Over 50 years of research conclusively demonstrates that virtually everyone who intentionally loses weight by manipulating their eating and exercise habits will regain the weight they lost within 3-5 years. And 75% will actually regain more weight than they lost [4].

4. Mann, T., Tomiyama, A.J., Westling, E., Lew, A.M., Samuels, B., Chatman, J. (2007). "Medicare’s Search For Effective Obesity Treatments: Diets Are Not The Answer." The American Psychologist, 62, 220-233. U.S. National Library of Medicine, Apr. 2007.

The annual odds of a fat person attaining a so-called “normal” weight and maintaining that for 5 years is approximately 1 in 1000 [5].

5. Fildes, A., Charlton, J., Rudisill, C., Littlejohns, P., Prevost, A.T., & Gulliford, M.C. (2015). “Probability of an Obese Person Attaining Normal Body Weight: Cohort Study Using Electronic Health Records.” American Journal of Public Health, July 16, 2015: e1–e6.

Doctors became so desperate that they resorted to amputating parts of the digestive tract (bariatric surgery) in the hopes that it might finally result in long-term weight-loss. Except that doesn’t work either. [6] And it turns out it causes death [7],  addiction [8], malnutrition [9], and suicide [7].

6. Magro, Daniéla Oliviera, et al. “Long-Term Weight Regain after Gastric Bypass: A 5-Year Prospective Study - Obesity Surgery.” SpringerLink, 8 Apr. 2008. 7. Omalu, Bennet I, et al. “Death Rates and Causes of Death After Bariatric Surgery for Pennsylvania Residents, 1995 to 2004.” Jama Network, 1 Oct. 2007.  8. King, Wendy C., et al. “Prevalence of Alcohol Use Disorders Before and After Bariatric Surgery.” Jama Network, 20 June 2012.  9. Gletsu-Miller, Nana, and Breanne N. Wright. “Mineral Malnutrition Following Bariatric Surgery.” Advances In Nutrition: An International Review Journal, Sept. 2013.

Evidence suggests that repeatedly losing and gaining weight is linked to cardiovascular disease, stroke, diabetes and altered immune function [10].

10. Tomiyama, A Janet, et al. “Long‐term Effects of Dieting: Is Weight Loss Related to Health?” Social and Personality Psychology Compass, 6 July 2017.

Prescribed weight loss is the leading predictor of eating disorders [11].

11. Patton, GC, et al. “Onset of Adolescent Eating Disorders: Population Based Cohort Study over 3 Years.” BMJ (Clinical Research Ed.), 20 Mar. 1999.

The idea that “obesity” is unhealthy and can cause or exacerbate illnesses is a biased misrepresentation of the scientific literature that is informed more by bigotry than credible science [12]. 

12. Medvedyuk, Stella, et al. “Ideology, Obesity and the Social Determinants of Health: A Critical Analysis of the Obesity and Health Relationship” Taylor & Francis Online, 7 June 2017.

“Obesity” has no proven causative role in the onset of any chronic condition [13, 14] and its appearance may be a protective response to the onset of numerous chronic conditions generated from currently unknown causes [15, 16, 17, 18].

13. Kahn, BB, and JS Flier. “Obesity and Insulin Resistance.” The Journal of Clinical Investigation, Aug. 2000. 14. Cofield, Stacey S, et al. “Use of Causal Language in Observational Studies of Obesity and Nutrition.” Obesity Facts, 3 Dec. 2010.  15. Lavie, Carl J, et al. “Obesity and Cardiovascular Disease: Risk Factor, Paradox, and Impact of Weight Loss.” Journal of the American College of Cardiology, 26 May 2009.  16. Uretsky, Seth, et al. “Obesity Paradox in Patients with Hypertension and Coronary Artery Disease.” The American Journal of Medicine, Oct. 2007.  17. Mullen, John T, et al. “The Obesity Paradox: Body Mass Index and Outcomes in Patients Undergoing Nonbariatric General Surgery.” Annals of Surgery, July 2005. 18. Tseng, Chin-Hsiao. “Obesity Paradox: Differential Effects on Cancer and Noncancer Mortality in Patients with Type 2 Diabetes Mellitus.” Atherosclerosis, Jan. 2013.

Fatness was associated with only 1/3 the associated deaths that previous research estimated and being “overweight” conferred no increased risk at all, and may even be a protective factor against all-causes mortality relative to lower weight categories [19].

19. Flegal, Katherine M. “The Obesity Wars and the Education of a Researcher: A Personal Account.” Progress in Cardiovascular Diseases, 15 June 2021.

Studies have observed that about 30% of so-called “normal weight” people are “unhealthy” whereas about 50% of so-called “overweight” people are “healthy”. Thus, using the BMI as an indicator of health results in the misclassification of some 75 million people in the United States alone [20]. 

20. Rey-López, JP, et al. “The Prevalence of Metabolically Healthy Obesity: A Systematic Review and Critical Evaluation of the Definitions Used.” Obesity Reviews : An Official Journal of the International Association for the Study of Obesity, 15 Oct. 2014.

While epidemiologists use BMI to calculate national obesity rates (nearly 35% for adults and 18% for kids), the distinctions can be arbitrary. In 1998, the National Institutes of Health lowered the overweight threshold from 27.8 to 25—branding roughly 29 million Americans as fat overnight—to match international guidelines. But critics noted that those guidelines were drafted in part by the International Obesity Task Force, whose two principal funders were companies making weight loss drugs [21].

21. Butler, Kiera. “Why BMI Is a Big Fat Scam.” Mother Jones, 25 Aug. 2014. 

Body size is largely determined by genetics [22].

22. Wardle, J. Carnell, C. Haworth, R. Plomin. “Evidence for a strong genetic influence on childhood adiposity despite the force of the obesogenic environment” American Journal of Clinical Nutrition Vol. 87, No. 2, Pages 398-404, February 2008.

Healthy lifestyle habits are associated with a significant decrease in mortality regardless of baseline body mass index [23].  

23. Matheson, Eric M, et al. “Healthy Lifestyle Habits and Mortality in Overweight and Obese Individuals.” Journal of the American Board of Family Medicine : JABFM, U.S. National Library of Medicine, 25 Feb. 2012.

Weight stigma itself is deadly. Research shows that weight-based discrimination increases risk of death by 60% [24].

24. Sutin, Angela R., et al. “Weight Discrimination and Risk of Mortality .” Association for Psychological Science, 25 Sept. 2015.

Fat stigma in the medical establishment [25] and society at large arguably [26] kills more fat people than fat does [27, 28, 29].

25. Puhl, Rebecca, and Kelly D. Bronwell. “Bias, Discrimination, and Obesity.” Obesity Research, 6 Sept. 2012. 26. Engber, Daniel. “Glutton Intolerance: What If a War on Obesity Only Makes the Problem Worse?” Slate, 5 Oct. 2009.  27. Teachman, B. A., Gapinski, K. D., Brownell, K. D., Rawlins, M., & Jeyaram, S. (2003). Demonstrations of implicit anti-fat bias: The impact of providing causal information and evoking empathy. Health Psychology, 22(1), 68–78. 28. Chastain, Ragen. “So My Doctor Tried to Kill Me.” Dances With Fat, 15 Dec. 2009. 29. Sutin, Angelina R, Yannick Stephan, and Antonio Terraciano. “Weight Discrimination and Risk of Mortality.” Psychological Science, 26 Nov. 2015.

There's my "proof." Where is yours?

[gunsandspaceships]

Age of MCU characters (at the time of the events)

Tony Stark (born May 29, 1970):

Iron Man 2 footage (September 15, 1973) - 3 yo Death of parents (December 16, 1991) - 21 yo CEO of SI (1992 - May 14, 2010) - 21-39 yo Iron Man 3 Into (December 31, 1999 - January 2000) - 29 yo Iron Man (February-May 2008) - 37 yo Iron Man 2 (May-June 2010) - 39-40 yo The Consultant (~Summer 2010) - 40 yo The Avengers (Early May 2012) - 41 yo Iron Man 3 (December 2013) - 43 yo CATWS (April-May 2014) - 43 yo Surgery (~End of May 2014) - 44 yo Age of Ultron (April-September 2015) - 44-45 yo Civil War and Intro of SMH (April-June 2016) - 45-46 yo SMH (October 2016) - 46 yo Infinity War (May 16-17, 2018) - 47 yo Endgame Intro (May-June 2018) - 47-48 yo Endgame, death (September - October 17, 2023) - 53 yo

James Rhodes (born October 6, 1968):

Iron Man (February-May 2008) - 39 yo Iron Man 2 (May-June 2010) - 41 yo Iron Man 3 (December 2013) - 45 yo Age of Ultron (April-September 2015) - 46 yo Civil War (April-June 2016) - 47 yo Infinity War and Endgame Intro (May-June 2018) - 49 yo Endgame (September-October 2023) - 54-55 yo

Nick Fury (born July 4, 1950):

Iron Man (May 2008) - 57 yo Iron Man 2 (May-June 2010) - 59 yo Thor, recruiting Selvig (Early 2012) - 61 yo CATFA, meeting Rogers (~April 2012) - 61 yo The Avengers (May 2012) - 61 yo CATWS (April-May 2014) - 63 yo Age of Ultron (April-September 2015) - 64-65 yo Infinity War (May 2018) and Endgame (October 2023) - 67 yo

Bruce Banner (born December 18, 1969):

Birth of the Hulk (March 2004) - 34 yo The Incredible Hulk (August-November 2009) - 39 yo The Avengers (May 2012) - 42 yo Iron Man 3 post-credits scene (~End of 2014) - 44/45 yo Age of Ultron (April 2015) - 45 yo Sakaar (April 2015-May 2018) - 45-48 yo Ragnarok, Infinity War, Endgame Intro (May 2018) - 48 yo Endgame (September-October 2023) - 53 yo

Emil Blonsky (born ~1970):

The Incredible Hulk (August-November 2009) - 39 yo The Consultant (~Summer 2010) ~ 40 yo

Ivan Vanko (born February 15 or August 2, 1969):

Prison (December 1993 - December 2008) - 24-39 yo Iron Man 2 Intro (December 2008) - 39 yo Iron Man 2, death (May-June 2010) - 40/41 yo

Natasha Romanoff (born December 3, 1983):

Ohio (1992-1995) - 8/9-11 yo The Red Room (1995-2008) - 11-24/25 yo Defection to S.H.I.E.L.D. (2008) - 24/25 yo Mission in Odessa (2009) - 25/26 yo Iron Man 2 (May - June 2010) - 26 yo The Avengers (May 2012) - 28 yo CATWS (April-May 2014) - 30 yo Age of Ultron (April-September 2015) - 31 yo Civil War & Black Widow (March-June 2016) - 32 yo Infinity War & Endgame Intro (May 2018) - 34 yo Endgame (September-October 2023), death (Oct 17, 2023) - 39 yo

Howard Stark (born August 15, 1917):

CATFA (June 1943 - 1946) - 25-28 yo Founding of S.H.I.E.L.D. (March 1946) - 28 yo Endgame - Time Heist (April 7, 1970) - 52 yo Became a father (May 29, 1970) - 52 yo Iron Man 2 footage (September 15, 1973) - 56 yo Hank Pym's Resignation (1989) - 71/72 yo Death (December 16, 1991) - 74 yo

Peter Parker (born August 10, 2001):

Iron Man 2 (June 2010) - 8 yo Bitten by a spider (October 2015) - 14 yo Civil War (May 2016) - 14 yo SMH (October 2016) - 15 yo Infinity War (May 2018) and Endgame (October 2023) - 16 yo

Jasper Sitwell (born December 8, 1973):

The Consultant (~Summer 2010) - 36 yo Thor (November 2011) - 37 yo The Avengers, Item 47 (May 2012) - 38 yo CATWS, death (April-May 2014) - 40 yo

Thor (born 964/965):

Thor (November 2011) ~ 1046/1047 yo The Avengers (May 2012) ~ 1047/1048 yo Thor: The Dark World (November 2013) ~ 1048/1049 yo Age of Ultron (April-September 2015) ~ 1050/1051 yo Thor: Ragnarok and Infinity War (May 2018) ~ 1053/1054 yo Endgame Intro (May-June 2018) ~ 1053/1054 yo Endgame (October 2023) ~ 1058/1059 yo

Loki (born 965):

Thor (November 2011) ~ 1046 yo The Avengers (May 2012) ~ 1047 yo Thor: The Dark World (November 2013) ~ 1048 yo Thor: Ragnarok and Infinity War, death (May 2018) ~ 1053 yo

Erik Selvig (born June 13, 1951):

Thor (November 2011) - 60 yo The Avengers (May 2012) - 60 yo Thor: The Dark World (November 2013) - 62 yo Age of Ultron (April-September 2015) - 63-64 yo Infinity War (May 2018) - 66 yo

Steve Rogers (born July 4, 1918):

Project Rebirth (June 1943) - 24 yo Fighting Hydra in WW2 (November 1943 - March 1945) - 25-26 yo The Avengers (April-May 2012) - 26/93 yo (the second number cannot actually be considered an age, but I put it here for convenience and FYI) CATWS (April-May 2014) - 28 yo/95 yo Age of Ultron (April-September 2015) - 29-30/96-97 yo Civil War (March-June 2016) - 30/97 yo Infinity War, Endgame Intro (May-June 2018) - 32/99 yo Endgame (September-October 2023) - 38/105 yo Old Rogers (October 2023) - 112/179 yo

Bucky Barnes (born March 10, 1917):

CATFA (June 1943 - March 1945) - 26-27 yo Hydra (March 1945 - April 2014) - 27 - ~30/97 yo (we don't know how long he was out/in of cryo during those years) Civil War (April-May 2016) - ~32/99 yo Infinity War (May 2018) - ~33/101 yo Endgame (October 2023) - ~33/106 yo

Peggy Carter (born April 9, 1919):

CATFA (June 1943 - March 1945) - 24-25 yo Agent Carter one-shot, became the director of S.H.I.E.L.D. (March 1946) - 26 yo Endgame - Rogers' timeline (October 1949) - 30 yo Interview about Howling Commandos (1953) - 33/34 yo Endgame - Time Heist (April 7, 1970) - 50 yo Hank Pym's Resignation (1989) - 70 yo Howard's assassination (December 16, 1991) - 72 yo Rogers found (End of 2011 - Beginning of 2012) - 92 yo CATWS (Second half of April 2014) - 95 yo Civil War - death (April 28, 2016) - 97 yo

Peter Quill (born late 1980):

Mother's death, abduction (~April 1988) - 7 yo GotG (Summer 2014) - 33 yo GotG 2 (Fall 2014) - 33/34 yo Infinity War (May 2018) and Endgame (October 2023) - 37 yo

Hope van Dyne (born 1980):

Ant-Man (July-October 2015) - 34/35 yo Civil War (May-June 2016) - 35/36 yo Ant-Man and the Wasp, Infinity War (May 2018) and Endgame (October 2023) - 37/38 yo

Cassie Lang (born ~September 24, 2008):

Father's imprisonment (2012 - July 2015) - 3/4 - 6 yo Ant-Man (July-October 2015) - 6-7 yo Civil War (May-June 2016) - 7 yo Ant-Man and the Wasp and Infinity War (May 2018) - 9 yo Endgame (September-October 2023) - 15 yo

Nathaniel Barton (born ~June 2015):

End of Age of Ultron (September 2015) ~4 mo Civil War (May-June 2016) ~ 1 yo Infinity War (May 17, 2018), Endgame (October 2023) ~ 3 yo

Aaron Davis (born April 15, 1984):

First and second arrests (October 4 and November 1, 2011) - 27 yo Third arrest (October 13, 2012) - 28 yo Fourth arrest (August 1, 2014) - 30 yo SMH (October 2016) - 32 yo

Yelena Belova (born 1989):

Ohio (1992-1995) - 2/3-6 yo The Red Room (1995-2016) - 6-26/27 yo Black Widow (April-June 2016) - 26/27 yo Infinity War (May 2018) and Endgame (October 2023) - 28/29 yo Black Widow post-credits scene (April-May 2024) - 29/30 yo

Jonathan Pangborn (born June 20, 1974):

Spinal injury (December 2014) - 40 yo Kamar-Taj (2015 - Early 2016) - 40-41 yo Meeting Strange (November/December 2016) - 42 yo Left paralyzed by Mordo (~May 2018) - 43 yo

T'Challa & Nakia (born ~1980/81):

Civil War and Black Panther (May 2016) ~ 35/36 yo Infinity War (May 2018) ~ 37/38 yo Endgame (October 2023): T'Challa ~ 37/38 yo; Nakia ~ 42/43 yo

[davidhudson]

Lady Bird Cleveland, July 24, 1926 – June 2, 2015.

With her painting of Eartha Kitt. 1954 photo by Carl Van Vechten.

[orangadore]

[collabwithmyself]

June 9th, 2015 // July 21st, 2024

[esther-dot]

It all begins way, way back in 2012…

[I'm doing screenshots or select quotes for those who don't click through + linking as well for those who will, but please, do not, do NOT harass anyone over their takes. No rude comments or weird anons! Talk to your fellow Jonsas instead, and of course, hopefully, post some thoughts about the theory yourself!]

2012 AUGUST Sansa's Suitors Align with the Fair Maid's Champions - (Assumes Aegon is the Targ but is a Sansa x The Hound theory)

2014 The Tourney at Ashford and Sansa's Future Husband (Sansa x Aegon theory)

It's been implied that this Redditor took the idea from the Sansan theory since it was posted months later, but their read is a bit different, focusing on the idea of the Targ suitor for Sansa rather than focusing on Dunk/claiming the Hound will interrupt the events or be a suitor himself. Whatever the truth there, many of the convos I've seen about the theory whether it's from Sansa x Aegon truthers, Jonsas, or those who don't buy into it at all, stem from this post, this reading and often link to it as the source.

The theory was eventually copied over to Westeros.org, several posts in quick succession of each other.

2014 JANUARY I've just read a new theory about Dunk and Egg... (Arguing for a Sansa x Aegon pairing)

2014 JANUARY TL;DR Aegon and Sansa will be paired up sometime in the future. The ending's not going to be good.

2014 JANUARY How Aegon might end up as Sansa's Suitor

2014 MAY Sansa Stark and Lady Ashford (much more thought given to Jon as a serious contender than I saw elsewhere around this time)

Now Littlefinger’s supposed plan is to marry her to Harry Hardyng.

GRRM may or may not be foreshadowing here, but I believe a clear analogy was intended. But there is a correction here that I have noticed: What do all of the men and betrothals Sansa finds herself have in common? They’re all frauds. ... And next we have Jon Snow. At this point R+L=J is canon except in name (fitting much?). His survival was achieved by the most honest and honorable man in the 7 Kingdoms pulling off what is arguably it’s grandest act of deception in living memory. A lie he even convinced his wife and best friend to believe. If Rhaegar and Lyanna were married (remember, polygamy used to be a thing for the Targaryens, so it’s possible), then his real name would Targaryen. But either way, Jon is, you guessed it, a fraud. I do not see how Sansa could end up in a betrothal to either Jon or Aegon (the latter option in particular sounds like it could lead to terrible things), but then again who would have guessed that Jorah would end up with Tyrion in Essos?

2015 APRIL I don’t normally reopen closed threads of mine... (Jonsa post!)

It is hypothesized that GRRM hid clues regarding who Sansa would marry in The Hedge Knight which indicate that the last person she will be betrothed to is a Targaryan.

2015 JULY Sansa and Aegon Gifset

2015 SEPTEMBER Sansa and Aegon Gifset

2016 JUNE Jon or Aegon Gifset

2016 JULY Sansa and Jon Gifset

2016 JULY Aegon and the Ashford Theory in connection to GoT (Jonsa post!)

Could Aegon be Sansa’s Targaryen suitor?  In the show, no.  In the books, we used to think so. However, it appears that the books are leading towards a potential Aegon/Arianne partnership, and if things begin to go badly for Aegon, he may try to go back down the Aegon/Dany path that he abandoned at Tyrion’s insistence.   Besides this, Varys is the mastermind of Aegon’s rise to power, and Littlefinger is the mastermind of Sansa’s potential reclaiming of Winterfell and ownership of the Eyrie - the two men hate each other ferociously, and it’s unlikely that they would trust each other enough to give their pawns to them. Whilst I don’t doubt that Littlefinger is going to try and murder both Sweetrobin and Harry (who she is to be betrothed to in The Winds of Winter), I doubt any of Varys’ men will attempt to do the same to Arianne incase of a Dornish retaliation.

2016 JULY Five Suitors for Sansa (Jonsa fic based on the theory)

2016 AUGUST Jon or Aegon Gifset

2016 SEPTEMBER Will Sansa marry Jon Snow? Alt Shift X video

Although already beloved by Jonsas, Alt Shift's video took the theory to a whole other level...

TIME September 2016

Harpers Bazaar September 2016

RadioTimes October 2016

"bring him luck in love" lmao. If only. Glamour October 2016

....you get the idea.

Jonsas weren't necessarily thrilled for this specific theory to get all the attention, but from here on out, perhaps because of the huge influx in Jonsa shippers after s6 of GoT, a show in which Aegon didn't exist and instead Jon was dubbed Aegon, the theory kinda became perceived as a Jonsa theory. And weirdly, although Alt Shift wasn't a Jonsa, Jonsas were accused of "stealing" the theory (even though all corners of the ASOIAF fandom linked to the old Reddit post as the originator, and even though the Game of Thrones fandom heard about it through Alt Shift + all the subsequent articles...). Regardless of all of that nonsense, Jonsas ran with it and it became pretty commonly referenced bit of proof that Jonsa was real here on tumblr (examples from 2017, 2018, 2019). By this time it looks like it also became accepted that Brienne, not the Hound, is the canon parallel to Dunk (this post claims to be the first to bring Brienne into the convo in 2015, GRRM confirmed Brienne is a descendent of Dunk, this fic was written based on the Sansan take but inserted Brienne instead of the Hound in 2016).

2016 What is "Ashford Tourney Theory" and what does it have to do with Sansa Stark? (answer on Quora by the most popular GoT/ASOIAF person on the site so wanted to include, but this is not referenced by Jonsas much)

2016 NOVEMBER The Tourney at Ashford and Sansa's Suitors

Okay, I know that Ashford is used as evidence for the Jonsa ship and while I don’t think its enough to say whether Jonsa is endgame or not. It is suggestive of some kind of partnership between the two.

2017 JUNE Besides Jon, who do you see as a candidate with a good chance of being a romantic interest for Sansa? (not much focus is on Jon in this post although it is written by a Jonsa, but in 2018 it's reblogged with these interesting observations by @starwarsprincess1986

Prediction: Jon Snow aka Prince Aegon Targaryen Possible Supporting evidence: How each of these men have some connections to Jon Snow: Joffery Baratheon -is seen as a true born son and heir to iron throne, but is really a bastard (Jon is seen as a Bastard, but is really a true born son and heir to the iron throne) Tyrion Lannister -gets his face practical cut off at the battle of Blackwater (Jon gets his face torn up by orell’s eagle) both Tyrion and Jon receive these wound in Book 3: A Storm of Swords Willas Tyrell -has a bad leg (Jon gets shot with an arrow in his leg when escapes the wildlings) Willas is semi-engaged to Sansa and Jon received this wound in Book 3: A Storm of Swords Harrold Hardyng -It is said that Harrold has the look of Jon Arryn in his youth. (Who is JON Snow named for? The man who fostered Ned Stark as a young boy maybe?)

2017 OCTOBER Possible reference to it on Game of Thrones by @thelawyerthatwaspromised

2017 NOVEMBER a helpful jonsa graphic by @ladywolfmd

2018 MARCH Sansa: Five Suitors For Her Claim and One For Love by @storyswept

[much more, click to read]

2018 APRIL One point (plus some extra ones) on the Ashford theory and Jonsa by @occupyvenus

The most common argument goes something like this: “What matters is the surname they are known as. Duh. Joffrey counts as the Baratheon even though he’s a Lannister. Duh. Or rather a Waters or a Hill. Duh. And Jon would count as s a Snow. Duh. Not a Targaryen. Duh. It’s not about their secret, real name. Duh. ... So let’s look at who Sansa actually gets betrothed/married to … She is promised to Joffrey ���Baratheon” (even though he isn’t actually one), to Willas Tyrell, Tyrion Lannister, Harrold “Hardyng” (even though he’s supposed to take on the name Arryn once he ascends as Lord of the Vale) and since Sansa wouldn’t get engaged/married to her supposed half-brother Jon Snow, but to her cousin Jon (or whatever) Targaryen … I would say it fits the pattern just fine. It fits perfectly even. This interpretation also eliminates any issues that come with Joffrey being the “Baratheon” champion and since at least three out of five names do indeed fit perfectly without question, I really see no reason to try extra hard to discredit it. She wasn’t betrothed to Joffrey Waters or Hills or Lannister, but to Joffrey … Baratheon. Just as she wouldn’t be betrothed to Jon Snow or Stark, but Targaryen. 

2018 APRIL Have you heard of the tourney of Ashford theory? by @viking-hel

It became a historically important tourney due to the death of Prince Baelor, heir to the IT. I think that is another aspect that should be considered, perhaps for the show, though that is only my thought: the death of a Targ heir revolving around this theory is interesting to say the least.

2018 JULY Aegon or Jon Gifset

2020 SEPTEMBER How would you respond to detractors of the Ashford Tourney theory... by fedonciadale

There is also no representation for Theon Greyjoy who at one point wanted to marry Sansa Stark, there is also no representation for several other men who play a part in Sansa’s storyline and have a ‘romantic’ interest in her.

2020 SEPTEMBER I don’t ship Jonsa, but I don’t get people who deny the ashford tourney parallels. by fedonciadale

2020 OCTOBER JON SNOW X SANSA STARK - BOOK HINTS by @ladyofasoiaf

[much more!]

I searched some of the popular/neutral tumblr blogs and at this point they were maintaining it was a coincidence (example, again, DO NOT HARASS ANYONE FOR THEIR TAKES). I also noticed that this theory was so ubiquitous and self-explanatory, people started merely linking the Tourney at Ashford Wiki with no reference to AltShiftX or the two dueling origins. This brings us to the most comprehensive look at the theory yet which comes almost a decade after it was first introduced to the ASOIAF fandom...

2021 MARCH THE BLACK PRINCE WITH THE WHITE GUARDIAN by @butterflies-dragons

[much, much more, you gotta read the whole post]

2021 APRIL Another criticism of the Ashford theory by fedonciadale

“Prince Valarr died!” Jon: *is dead*

2021 MAY Alt Shift X (again, this time confessing he accepts jonsa - I'm linking Stumpy's reaction here.)

2021 JUNE About the Ashford Theory by @istumpysk

About the Ashford Theory, it should be noted that Lady Ashford didn't end up getting forcibly married to Tybolt Lannister, and yet that did happen to Sansa. The Ashford Theory already doesn't apply fully to the letter. So no the Targaryen suitor doesn't necessarily have to die just like Valarr nor does it mean Sansa will end up alone. It is all up in the air.

2021 JULY Another parallel... by @istumpysk

Another parallel between the Ashford tourney and the Vale tourney: Dunk was falsely accused of kidnapping a prince and we all know Shadrich is almost certain going to try to kidnap the northen princess. I think he is the third and last anti-Duncan knight in Sansa history together with The Hound and Dontos, hopefully his interference in the Vale tourney will lead Sansa to her true Duncan-like knight: Brienne.

2021 JULY Lyonel means Lion by @esther-dot

2021 JULY The way i laugh every time i think about the Ashford theory... by @istumpysk with an interesting reblog by @ladyqueenofwinter

Valarr = The Black Prince Jon: Dark-haired Prince of the Seven Kingdoms = a Black Prince Loras = Knight of Flowers Jon: Night's Watchman = Black Knight on the Wall Jon: the Blue Winter Rose, growing on the Wall in the House of the Undying = A flower Jon = Knight of Flowers Jon is a Black Prince and a Knight of Flowers!!!

2021 JULY We really should have spent more time obsessing over the Ashford champions by @istumpysk

1. Lyonnel Baratheon: A Baratheon lion that declared himself Storm King for a short while. 2. Leo Tyrell: Oberyn says the reason why Willas was allowed to participate in a tourney so young is because his father wanted him to be another Leo Tyrell. Willas is twice Sansa' age which is something that bothered her but end accepting since "he might be the only champion she would ever have", in The Hedge Knight, Leo is describe was having "silver in his hair and a grey beard" which together with the fact he has old enough to comand forces in the First Blackfyre Rebelion thirteen year before suggest he was the oldest between the champions in the Ashford tourney. We dont know the exact year Willas was born but by fans calculation is probably the same year as Tyrion, which may make him the oldest of Sansa suitors just like Leo is the oldest champion. 3. Tybolt Lannister: we don't know much about him besides the fact that he made a alliance to the Starks to defeat rebelling Greyjoys but we know that he had a younger brother who has exceedingly clever, quick of wit, a notably bookworm and has also suspect of commiting kinslayer by murdering his niece which made him hated by the nobles and the smallfolk. 4. Humfrey Hardyng: The last name is already a big thing since he and Harry is the only Hardyngs in the books but there the possible foreshadowing that just like him, Harry will be injured in the Vale Tourney. 5. Valarr Targaryen: Dark haired half Targaryen, son of the heir to iron throne, wear all black and is accompanied by a white protector. Do i need to say anything more?

2022 SEPTEMBER Ashford Tournament! (long post, scroll down for all the relevant quotes!) by @istumpysk

But they were all dead now, even Arya, everyone but her half-brother, Jon. Some nights she heard talk of him, in the taverns and brothels of the Ragman's Harbor. The Black Bastard of the Wall, one man had called him. - The Blind Girl, ADWD x Six pups they'd found in the late summer snows, him and Robb; five that were grey and black and brown, for the five Starks, and one white, as white as Snow. - Jon XII, ASOS x The last pavilion was Prince Valarr's. Of black silk it was, with a line of pointed scarlet pennons hanging from its roof like long red flames. The shield on its stand was glossy black, emblazoned with the three-headed dragon of House Targaryen. One of the Kingsguard knights stood beside it, his shining white armor stark against the black of the tentcloth.  [...] And the black-and-white knight, Lord Gawen Swann, challenged the black prince with the white guardian. - The Hedge Knight

That last line makes me laugh each time. Why do we even need any meta lmao.

2023 NOVEMBER lysa wanted to marry sansa and robert arryn, does that debunk the ashford theory?

...Sansa is about to be present at a tourney in TWOW, she's talking about her favor, there's this whole pre canon thing about a Stark girl and Targ at a tourney, so it doesn't feel weird to think maybe Sansa was on Martin's mind. And of course, in canon, Sansa is the maiden fair which is interesting when the Ashford girl is referred to as fair maid, and this idea of a revolving door of champions is very reminiscent of Sansa's unfortunate experiences thus far, with men who help her, fail her/hurt her, and then on to the next (the Hound, Tyrion, Dontos, LF...). A potential match with Sweetrobin doesn't feel like an obstacle to everything that does make this feel like a thing, especially when, it is not merely the matching names that connect the two, it's the details that create all sorts of parallels with Jon, making him seem like the canon Targ this will ultimately be about. Let's revisit that revolving door of "champions" for Sansa, who is the guy who killed her monster in canon?

2024 JANUARY Sweetrobin also doesn't count as a suitor because... by @catofoldstones

2024 MARCH The Ashford Theory and my patience running thin by @catofoldstones

[much more!]

2024 APRIL Jon or Aegon Gifset

2025 JUNE baelor breakspear at the tourney at ashford meadows by @transdimensional-void

something that stood out to me about the manner of baelor's death at the tourney is how reminiscent it is of rhaegar's death at the trident. [... ] it's also notable that baelor's name is linked to the story of bael the bard, yet nothing we know about baelor himself calls to mind any part of that myth, except perhaps the part about him being murdered by a family member. rhaegar, on the other hand, is one of the series's best-known bael the bard figures. [...] if baelor is meant to call to mind rhaegar, then it seems very likely that baelor's son, valarr, is meant to call to mind rhaegar's son...

Obviously this isn't comprehensive, but I wanted to collect a variety of posts on this topic into one spot, so we could easily see how it evolved. While reading through old Jonsa blogs to find these posts, I was really struck by the way the initial "it's the names" was enough to convince a lot of people of the possibility of canon Jonsa, but then, instead of it ending there, Jonsas just kept on growing the theory. As recently as this week we're getting new posts about it, strengthening the theory even though it is now nearly 13 years since that initial observation was made.

(Illustration at the top by Howard Pyle )

[thebrightsessions]

10 YEARS OF THE BRIGHT SESSIONS

The Bright Sessions first premiered in November 2015. To celebrate a decade since the show came out, we’ll be revisiting each season with livestream discussions and Q&As with members of the cast and crew. Specific dates are yet to be determined, but the rough schedule is as follows:

April - Season 1

May - Season 2

June - Season 3

July - Season 4

August - Season 5

September - Season 6

October - Season 7

Listen along to each season in your own time and join us for the livestreams. Each month there will also be a special surprise - new merch, blooper reels, and more! Subscribe now to Atypical’s YouTube channel!

To keep up to date with current dates and other announcements, sign up for our newsletter here: atypicalartists.co/10years

[typewritingyip]

The Arcturus Missions

Part Forty Eight - Conversation

Part Forty Seven

TW: Mention of Homophobia/Homophobic Tones

———

Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell was an official United States military policy, issued in December 1993 and put into effect in February of 1994. It was a policy designed to “prevent” discrimination against closeted homosexual or bisexual service members of the varying branches, while barring openly homosexual civilians from service.

This act prevented any non-heterosexual person from discussing or disclosing their sexual orientation or any same-sex relationships, while serving in the United States armed forces. If such discussions were had or disclosed or actions were taken by the service member, they would be separated from the military service.

The only time this was prevented is if the conduct was to avoid service or if it was deemed in the best interest of the military. 

For the term, don’t ask, it was a section of the act specifically depicting the policy that superiors not initiate investigations for a service member without witnessing the banned behaviors. If evidence was deemed credibly however, it could be perused. The term became expendaed after multiple unauthorized investigations took place, turning into “don’t ask, don’t tell, don’t pursue, and don’t harass.” Which of course was just as effective.

It wasn’t until July of 2011 that the policy was repealed by the then president, secretary of defense, and chairmen of the joint chiefs of staff. Though the legal challenges started in the early 2000’s, the actual legislation to repeal DADT was enacted in December of 2010. 

DADT ended in September of 2011. 

Even with DADT repealed, there were further standing issues with the standing Defense of Marriage act, which meant that although same-sex partners were no longer banned, their marriages would not be recognized by the military or federal government. 

They would not have access to the same benefits as heterosexual couples, whether health care, military pay, family separation allowance, and basic allowance for housing if they had dependents. 

It wasn’t until 2013 that it was replaced with the Respect for Marriage Act, which went into regulation in June of 2013. Wither further arguments at the state and federal level continuing into 2015. 

Arcturus One launched July 10th of 2013.

—

It had been hours, long and painful hours of strategizing, which was far from his strong suit. Instinct, working with instinct was his normal but being in the room with basically the leaders of their planet was far from instinctual to him. 

Even when he was in the military, he hadn’t risen through the ranks, or even tried to. Before all this Arcturus mess, he wasn’t a leader of people. Far from it. Being a hunter class had been as solo as it could get, no observer in his ear and no mission control in his interface. Even when he became a striker, he usually cut his audio to them. 

Fighting on pure instinct was what he always did and working that into the plan was at least helpful, “It’s reckless,” “It’s how the humans seem to operate Optimus, just leave them to their business. They’ll listen to orders when they are thought out.” Megatron’s voice had a strange tone that almost made Hound grin.

He was desperate for water when they finally left the office, sighing as he leaned against the wall, closing his eyes and grabbing his water pouch to drink from. Taking several gulps before sighing, the suit's hand resting in front of his face as if blocking out the light thankfully. He could see eyes on him though.

Taking one more drink, he sighs slowly, “Raj’, just cause my eyes are closed doesn’t mean I can’t tell you’re there.” The near choking sound almost made him laugh, almost, “Hound, you realize how terrifying that is, right?” That made him smile, setting down the water pouch, he lets his arm hang when he opens his eyes.

They land on where Mirage appears, invisible one moment to in front of him the next, smiling stupidly at him. It made his skin crawl in an unfamiliar way, not dissimilar to how his so-called field felt to him.

“How’d the meeting go?” And that sinking feeling was back, shrugging some, Hound turned and started toward the exit. Mirage fell in next to him, walking by his side. Shaking his head a bit, Hound sighs again, “About as good as it could have, I think Breakdown is going to be moved to another unit, work under Joan.” Mirage chuckled.

To be fair, it was an inside joke among the humans, mostly. But Mirage, Prowl, and Bluestreak had heard it too many times to not know. 

Nodding his head, Mirage shrugged, “I guess Knockout made his voice heard. Doesn’t want to be near you or have Breakdown near you either.” Wincing, Hound sighed, “God, you threaten a guy's life once, huh?” Snorting with laughter, Mirage covers his mouth and shakes his head, “Hound, when did you get so funny?” Smiling a bit, he shrugs and starts walking, “Always have been, there have just been translation errors.” Mirage quickly catches up, his hand finding its familiar resting spot on his back, “Hey, where are we going?” Sighing a bit, Hound shrugs, “Probably home.” With a glance, his visor brightens slightly.

Mirage was smiling softly, walking with him, “So that I can get repainted before we ship back out.” He turns away, continuing through the halls.

Headquarters was still quiet, though there was evidence of people having passed through in the hours since arriving. Everything having seemed to be cleared or brushed off, new scuffs on the floor from people walking and the light shifted through the windows without reflecting on the previously shined surfaces. 

“It might be a bit before we go off world, since yesterday, but I will say it will be a relief to see you in green again.” Mirage’s voice was soft and it made Hound shudder slightly, shifting a bit, chuckling weakly, “Yeah, I know I look like the dead walking.” Shaking his head a bit, Mirage shifts his grip slightly as they step into the sunshine, “It’s not about that. You look plenty alive now, with or without the paint, but I like the green.” His throat tightened.

Glancing around, nearly desperately, the line from earlier was gone and it was the perfect distraction, “Where did the people go?” Frowning slightly, he hardly glanced at Mirage, “The ones from the attack.” Humming, Mirage looks over and nods slightly, “They’ve all probably been moved to a new building already, it doesn’t take long to move that many mecha, it was probably under fifty.” Nodding slowly, Hound’s hands flex uncomfortably.

Tightening his fists, he sighs slowly, “So, your kind’s population is truly that small?” Chuckling, Mirage shrugs, “We are certainly more than fifty, but not very many. We lost a fair bit during the war but our people were never many. Not like what your kind seems to have, right now the city's population stands around seven thousand or so.” Nodding slowly, Hound sighed deeply, “For a city so large, the population is so small.” 

Chuckling a bit, Mirage shakes his head, “One of us takes up a lot of space, I’m surprised that the five of you can stand to fit into your hab.” He nearly came to a full stop, the apartment was huge, but if he were actually the size of his suit, it would still be pretty comfortable, “Uh, well, it’s more space than we’d usually have on Earth. By a lot.” Mirage smiles and looks at him before slowing.

His hand flexed slightly on Hound’s back, “How many people live on your planet again?” Sighing, Hound looks at the sky briefly, “Somewhere between five and six billion, I think.” It was always such a weird thing, watching the color drain from Cybertronian’s faces, like when humans would go pale.

”And you’ve lost a billion in thirty years?” Nodding again, Hound sighs, “We can’t save everyone, those who aren’t pilots are a lot more fragile, breakable.” He didn’t know how else to describe it, his throat tightening slightly. Mirage hummed, looking down, “We lost under a hundred thousand in nearly a million years. Now we stand at just thirty-five thousand strong and haven’t had more than fifteen unnatural deaths in a thousand years of peace.” Hound stared.

Struggling for words, he gulps slightly, “Wow.” Sighing, Mirage nods a bit, “Yeah, a staggering difference there, huh?” With a hum, Hound turned down the street towards the apartment.

They walked in silence for the next few minutes, until they came up on a bench, “Let’s sit out here for a bit, I think your apartment would be a bit claustrophobic.” He wanted to argue, to mention how tired he was, even the pain that Sunny was going to help him with but slowly they sat. 

Iacon moved by easily, other people walking around, some driving, as if the city hadn’t been attacked the day before. As if he hadn’t just heard that their shields for the city had some sort of fault, as if Prowl and Soundwave were showering through alien information to know what was happening. 

Sitting back, Hound closes his eyes and sighs slowly. Mirage shifts his weight next to him, resting a hand on his knee, the knee of his suit. Gulping, Hound opens his eyes and looks over, “I actually wanted to talk to you before you disappeared again.” His heart sank.

—

Jazz and Breakdown were the last ones up and they both woke up to the smell of fresh paint wafting in under the door, disturbing them both enough to wake them up.

Sunny was still out of his suit, but was working on his brother's mech, while Sideswipe was eating in the greenhouse. Helmet on and an oxygen mask covering his face, he was spraying carefully. It was a tool kit he’d brought with him, but the paint was from Cybertron, its makeup was rather odd. 

Not really thicker than any paint from Earth, but it was odd, the layer was more opaque than typical auto body paint from Earth but the color was nearly perfect. A stunning hot rod cherry red. It shined brighter than the paint back home would, as if he were applying the top coat with it. This would buff to a near painful shine. 

Setting down the sprayer, he wipes his hands on his pants with a grin, each piece disconnected from the suit with the engineered ease and they were taking the paint like sand would absorb water. Smiling, he steps back to admire it, the paint didn’t have any of that glitter in it either, though there were apparently ones you could buy with it but he was glad that Bluestreak knew him well enough to not get that.

Most of the paints and waxes had been bought by Blue for him, though some of them he’d chosen. When he’d learned about waxes, he’d bought several while using his suit to scan them for general structure. He’d returned a few rather quickly after smelling them though. 

Sighing, he steps back to admire the work when the door to the bathroom opens behind him, “Oh god, it reeks of paint in here.” Turning, Sunny grinned at Jazz, and Jazz laughed, “You know, you look nuts with that stuff covering your head.” Nodding a bit, he lifts his sprayer with a wicked grin, “It’s for my protection, so I don’t die from inhaling this crap.” Nodding a bit, Jazz crossed his arms and leaned against the wall.

”Are you working on just your brother's suit right now?” Shaking his head a bit, he turns and hefts one of the sections of plating, “Nope, I’m doing all the red detail work. I’m trying to figure out all our numbers, since I don’t have a stencil.” He shoves the piece upright and holds it for Jazz to see.

With a smile, Jazz tilts his head slightly, “You really think we still need that? It’s not like the public needs to identify the suit or even the pilot in the suit anymore.” Shrugging a bit, Sunny shifts it back down carefully, “I don’t know. I’ve always put the numbers back on peoples suits. If you don’t want it, I can sand it back down.” Stepping away from the pieces, he tilts his head a bit.

Jazz moved over and sighed slowly, “Keep em’. We’re still human in there.” Smiling and nodding, he looks over, “You think the others will still want theirs too?” Jazz rubs a hand over his implants, sighing deeply, “I think we’re all too beat to have to think about it.” His heart clenched painfully, nodding a bit. 

Walking back over to pick up the paint sprayer, he holds it carefully in his hands, “The last time a building fell on me was the day my mom died. Caused my dad to die too.” His voice shook lightly and he gripped the sprayer, “Sides was at school but he always took it really hard, that’s why I’m trying to get his done first. Uh, I always felt more at home in the suit than not.” Jazz slowly nodded.

He took a step closer, “And?” Sighing shakily, Sunny nodded a bit, “It was ten years ago this year that it happened. I just… I didn’t realize how much it wouldn’t faze me.” His voice grew quieter, “I mean, yeah, my fucking parents died and I was reliving that trauma today but do you want to know what was the worst part of all of this?” He turned to Jazz, who nodded and his voice caught in his throat.

How do you even go about describing it?

”Sunny,” Sighing again, he nodded, “The worst part of yesterday was how freaked out I was when Blue wasn’t there, watching my back. I never realized till then that I have literally never fought these things alone. Not like you, not like Hound. I’ve always had someone there, then with only one of my bracers,” He gulps for air desperately, “I felt helpless. Useless. And was stuck in a repeating loop of it all.” Carefully, Jazz’s hand rested on his shoulder.

Jazz took a breath, “Welcome to the realization.” Blinking slowly, he shook his head a bit, “What realization?” Smiling a bit, Jazz shrugged, “That your human. Even in a giant robotic suit, you're human at the core of it.” Jazz’s finger gabbed into his chest, “Not everything can be solved by being in a big suit. Having a giant robot at your back who’d lay down their life for you is one of the most relieving things there is out here but we’re not on Earth, this isn’t our home turf. Yet, we still throw ourselves at everything that comes for us and them, but we’re human.” His smile was relieving. 

Nodding slowly, Sunny takes a slow breath and shifts his hold on the paint sprayer, “How’d you figure that out?” Jazz shrugged a bit and turned toward the door, “When Prowl found out I was organic, it’s cause I was almost in the crash, I was dying and he saved me. Only one who could have.” Opening the door, he glances back, “Not everything can be solved by being in a suit Sunny, having someone you trust at your back isn’t a weakness until you let it be.” The door swished shut behind him.

Sighing slowly, Sunny moves over and picks up the canister of white paint next, detaching the red paint canister. His hands shook lightly.

Of course he was human, but maybe since coming here he’d tried to forget that. 

—

Mirage was smiling, softly, stupidly at him. 

God, this was probably the weirdest his life had ever gotten. Meeting with the leaders of a free society and having one of the most stunning things in the universe smiling at him like this wasn’t painfully awkward. 

Clearing his throat a bit, he tried to smile, brightening his visor slightly, “I wasn’t planning on disappearing. So, what do you want to talk about?” Shifting a bit, he leans back against the bench. Mirage nodded slightly and cleared his throat, trying to maintain his smile.

”You saved my life yesterday.” Trying not to roll his eyes, Hound moved to get up, “I was doing what I do,” Mirage grabbed his arm and pulled him back to the bench, “No Hound, listen.” Slowly sitting back down, he sighed and nodded a bit.

Keeping hold on his arm, Mirage nodded and still held his soft smile, “You saved my life, you found me in the rubble and dug me out even when no one else would have been able to see me. Not even Jazz and I thought he was the freakiest person for the longest time, cause he nearly always knew I was there. You always know.” Carefully, Hound rested his hand over Mirage’s.

Nodding a bit, he shrugged a bit, “Yeah, well, I’m sure I could find you just about anywhere.” His tone was flat, honest, and Mirage grinned, “Exactly. You can find me anywhere, when no one else can.” He stopped and took a breath, “When I was down in the under-layer, I could hardly think straight. My mind was wandering in every direction but it kept coming back to you.” 

Wherever this was heading, Hound didn’t think it was anywhere good as his heart clenched painfully, “Mirage,” “Hound, you’ve worked your way into my spark without even realizing it.” Blue hands took his grey and held them, “You can find me across a battlefield even when I’m invisible, you find me and you protect me without a second thought.” Mirage’s smile was bright, blinding and made Hound’s heart ache. 

“You’ve saved me just as many times as I’ve saved you in the incredibly short time we’ve known each other.” Hound’s throat tightened again, shifting his hands in Mirage’s hold which tightened.

“I’ve survived a million years of war, the fall of my caste and kind, and haven’t realized that all I have wanted in this life is for someone to see me when no one else could.” Hound tried to pull away, even as his heart thudded against his ribs, “Mirage, I’m only human.” And Mirage smiled, nodding, “I know.”

His hands held tightly to Hound, even as Hound pinged anyone in the apartment desperately, “That’s what you humans seem to do, just find us and work yourselves into our sparks. You might be stupid and reckless to a fault, but you’re brave and willing to lay down your already short life for so many.” Mirage’s fingers brushed over the back of his hands.

The back of his suits hands. 

Finally able to pull back when he got a ping, he stood, “Let’s go inside, talk inside, everyone should be asleep or just, yeah.” He nodded, almost offering a hand but instead standing slightly stiffly. Nodding slowly, Mirage stands and follows him into the building.

The elevator ride was one of the most awkward in his life, both of them shifting around like two teenagers trying to figure out how to speak. Hell, it’s how he felt right now. 

Stepping out of the elevator, they walked to the apartment in silence until Hound unlocked the door and stepped inside.

No one was in the living room, all the doors to other spaces were closed, gulping slightly as he steps forward to let Mirage in. 

“Alright,” His voice was tight and his hands were shaking lightly, “Say what you’re going to say here.” The door closes behind Mirage and he steps back slightly away from the mech.

Mirage frowned a bit, “Hound, are you alright?” Shaking his head a bit, he sighs shakily, “Honestly? No, because right now you sound like a love struck idiot trying to confess and that’s terrifying.” Mirage smiled a bit and shrugged, “Yeah well, that’s what I sound like in that situation.” Shaking his head again, Hound starts to pace.

”God,” He takes a breath and looks to Mirage, “What you feel for me is barely legal on Earth, Mirage. Me being a part of the military makes all of this conversation illegal.” The soft look on Mirage’s face vanished, his face turning hard, “Damn your world.” And he marched over and took hold of Hound’s face.

The face of his suit.

Holding his face, Mirage stared at him, trying to stare into his soul, “Hound, being a pilot does not mean you should not be allowed to love.” His heart was in his throat, “It’s, it’s not love that is specifically illegal Mirage. Not even love for pilots, but love between those deemed the same sex. Talking about it.” Blinking at him, Mirage frowned a bit.

He even tilted his head like Hound usually did, “That didn’t translate.” Groaning, Hound pulled away, desperate for space and started to pace, “Love between people with the same build, similar frame, one between mechs or femmes, not one of each.” Mirage chuckled slightly, shaking his head a bit, “There aren’t enough femmes for that to ever work here.”

Everything in him screamed to try and put his head through the wall, “Yeah, well on Earth were pretty evenly split.” His hands were shaking again, struggling to breathe before he started to strap his oxygen mask on, “Mirage, you can’t love me.” And Mirage stared.

Shifting forward, Mirage lightly took his arm, “Why? Why not? Because your government has deemed it wrong? Because your kind seems to have some sort of strict guidelines for love?” “Because you don’t know anything about me!” Hound shook his arm off.

“I’m not gay!” His throat tightened with the fear, with the hint of a lie, the lie he’d had to uphold for years. Hiding his bi-sexuality.

Trying to stop pacing, his hands clenching at his sides briefly, “I was married before Mirage, you know this. I was married to Sarah for years, I loved her Mirage,” Jabbing at his own chest, he closes his eyes and brings his fists to his eyes gasping painfully, “I loved her so damn much and being a pilot, being me, pushed her away.” Mirage moved over slowly before resting a hand on his shoulder.

”I love you for who you are. For your past, for your future. You say I don’t know anything about you, but I know how much you care. I see your life and everything you do because of the person you are.” Shoving him off, Hound stumbled back, he was crying.

Grasping at his helmet, he struggles, “I, I am not what you think I am Mirage. God, you think I am like you.” He could feel it building to the tip of his tongue, then he got a ping from Jazz, the reassurance he needed to end this.

Mirage smiled a bit, “I think your fantastic, your kind are certainly more resilient,” He paused as Hound stills his suit and pulled the connector from his implants, hitting the cockpit opening button with his fist. It was dizzying, the sudden disconnection, pulling his microphone in front of his face and adjusting the speaker slightly.

Standing uneasily, he stepped forward and threw his arms wide, “Ta-fucking-da.” Mirage stared, blinking, eyes widening as Hound pulled himself from his suit. Using the magnets in his assistance suit to pull himself to his suits shoulder, “This is me.” And he did the stupidest thing ever, tearing off his helmet and oxygen mask.

Revealing his organic face, hair, eyes, all of it. His disheveled appearance, eyes red from crying, breath heavy. Pausing for a moment, he pulls his helmet back on and adjusts the microphone, “I actually need this to understand you.” Mirage was still staring.

Gulping slightly, he patted the suit awkwardly, “My suit is what I pilot. What we pilot are our suits. They were built to fight Quintessons, we were just… reformatted to control them.” Mirage stepped forward carefully, “So, so, you're a techno-organic?” He paused and shrugged weakly, “I guess.” 

Nodding quickly, Mirage still stared, looking around, “Are, are you all this, small?” His face burned, “No, I am just short.” They both chuckled weakly.

Hound shifted a bit before sitting down, “My suit,” he patted the platting under his hand, “Is just an extension of me, now. This is just me if I were bigger.” Mirage stepped forward again and tilted his head slightly, “So, this is what I didn’t know. Is that your organic? Am I missing anything?” His mouth was dry and he shook his head a bit.

”No, I, I don’t think so. This,” He gestured to himself then to his suit, “Is me.” Mirage nodded, “What is it like, in the suit?” He nearly tripped over the word, “It’s just, me. If I were big and made of metal. I can feel some of my plating as if it were my skin, I see through its cameras like my eyes, it’s not typical for how I see and feel things.” He chuckled weakly and brushed a hand over his implants.

Still fighting back more tears, he struggled, “I’m organic Mirage, I’m small and my life expectancy is shit. Being in love with you is a crime back on Earth for me and I don’t think you love this,” he gestured to himself, “You love who you thought I was.” His eyes burned as he held back tears.

Mirage stepped forward and his hands rested on the space on the back of his suit, “You said it yourself, the suit is just a further extension of who you are. And I like who you are. You see me.” And Mirage blinked out, though Hound’s glance didn’t waver from his eyes, “Even when no one else can. Isn’t that what matters? Sure, this is weird, but we wouldn’t be the first to make it work and I doubt we’d be the last.” Mirage reappeared and extended a hand.

This was a mistake, a dire mistake, but Hound stepped forward shakily. 

Carefully, almost too carefully, Hound stepped into his hold, lightly grasping at Mirage’s fingers before pushing the visor on his helmet up. That horrific buzzing. feeling returned and was joined by a strong one, “You see me Hound and now I see you. Call it even?” 

Gently, Mirage helped him back to his cockpit and he shuffled in. Taking back up the connector, wincing slightly as it snaps into place. 

Mirage felt the slight bit of pain rip through his field before so much of the worry in it washed away.

Closing his cockpit, his visor lit back up and he stared back at Mirage. While Mirage stared back, tilting his head in a way Hound knew was terribly familiar, “You’re you both in and out of the suit. So, are you going to accept how I feel? How I know you feel or continue to be worried about it?” Rolling his eyes a bit, Hound shook his head.

”You’re ridiculous. Even after all that—?” Mirage brought his hands down his arms and held his hands carefully, “Especially after all that. Hound, I love you, let that be enough. You're you and I love who you are, even if I still have a lot to discover.” He squeezed Hound’s hands and Hound squeezed back, even as his heart raced. 

Stepping forward, Hound tilted his head back slightly, “It’s going to take time, this isn’t normal for me. Plus, there is a war out there.” Mirage nodded, smiling, “That’s fair, you’ve got other pilots to think of.” He nodded a bit.

If the elevator had been awkward, this was painfully so.

Moving one hand from his hold, Mirage slid it to cover the gap in his armor, like he’d been doing for ages, “Hound, no one here will judge you for this. None of us care about organic gender roles or the rules they seem to place for so called moral reasons. Someday, we’ll explain our own concept of gender.” Chuckling lightly, he shook his head, “Other kinds of being are so strict about that slag, we fought a million years so we didn’t have to be.” His fingers brushed over the still colorless plating of Hound’s armor absently. 

Nodding slowly, Hound sighed and pulled Mirage closed, closing his eyes, “I do care for you Mirage, more than I have for anyone in a very long time.” Mirage’s arms wrapped around him, his own eyes closing.

They stood like that for a long moment, fields buzzing to a calm before Mirage glanced around, “No wonder you all live in this one space though, being so tiny.” Scoffing, Hound shook his head, “You are now walking on thin ice.” And Mirage laughed.

One of the doors behind him whooshed open and Mirage let out a nervous chuckle, “Oh, there are others.” Resting his forehead against Mirage’s shoulder, Hound groaned. There was never a moment of quiet here. 

———

A/N

This chapter took so long lmao, but I honestly think that it might be the longest chapter yet? Is 4.8k the longest? I don’t know… I also can’t believe how close we are to part fifty. Like, that is insane to me.

Also, disclosure.. I am a straight woman writing this, but I try to write romance just as.. romance. So, please let me know if I’m doing anything wrong, please.

With everything that has happened in like the last two weeks, writing has been such a stress relief. Nothing bad has happened but it’s been hectic.

So let me know what you think of the development, I’ve been sort of planning this scene for a little while and I’ve struggled to find the right place for it. But yeah, it’s fun.

TAGS

@lunarlei68 @whirlywhirlygig @loop-hole-319 @pixillandjester @alek-the-witch @not-a-moose-in-disguise @goddessofwind8water @neurologicalglitch @dersereblogger @pixel-transformers @mrcrayonofdoom @wireplaces @twilightfreefaller @original-blog-name-2 @devilangel657 @robbin-u @miniartistme @starwold @tea-enthusiasm @valeexpris606 @celticdoggo @bird599 @agentsquirrelsgotrobots @aquaioart @thatwandercat @artdagz @seisha974 @halenhusky309 @leethepiper @cat-cassette @sirassban @cosmique-oddity @garbageenthusiast @xervias @azulabutterfly @fryseem @spring-mc @echo-circuit @aghostsnail @wooblewooble @ask-glory-haddock-and-others @nonsscrapheap @magichats @iminahole247 @omgflyingderpywhale @thetrexartist @naaaafam @elegantmantaray @emichusai @waterlilykitty @diabolichare @ham4ponyo @osqindaxend @sunnyvibesanddoodles @ratatatata248 @ijustneedausernaneplease4444444 @sprook-children @fooolisher 

And once again thank you to @Keferon for this amazing AU

[liliesmultiverse]

⋆ˊˎ-•̩̩͙- *̩̩̥͙ dating history in my adult fame reality!!

┊ ➶ ｡˚ ° jasmine elaine collins [born feb. 21, 1990] is mrs. good luck, babe!. we started dating on november 13, 2004. she was scared of coming out so we kept our relationship a secret until she broke up with me on april 21, 2005 because her friends started getting suspicious and literally a day later she started dating a guy.

┊ ➶ ｡˚ ° sabrina lauren hall [born nov. 7, 1989] is mrs. casual. we started ‘dating’ on september 8, 2005. unbeknownst to me, our relationship was entirely casual to her & she was flirting with another girl the entire time. i ended it on june 20, 2006 when the other girl realized that i didn’t know what sabrina was doing.

┊ ➶ ｡˚ ° thomas grant gustin [born jan. 14, 1990] is mr. fearless. we met completely randomly in august 2006 and started dating on october 5 that same year. we ended up breaking on january 20, 2008 though because it wasn’t working anymore. there wasn’t any bad blood between us though.

┊ ➶ ｡˚ ° jensen ross ackles [born mar. 1, 1978] is mr. you’re not sorry. we met in 2008 on the set of supernatural because i had a small guest appearance and started dating on july 5. we broke up after only a few months on october 19 because he kept talking down on me because of my age.

┊ ➶ ｡˚ ° bill istvan gunther skarsgård [born aug. 9, 1990] is mr. better than revenge. we met at a chirstmas party in 2008 and started dating a few days later on new years. he broke up with me on july 14 through a voicemail and a few days later it was announced that he was dating someone else already.

┊ ➶ ｡˚ ° nikolina kamenova dobreva [born jan. 9, 1989] is mrs. long live. we first met on the set of the vampire diaries and started dating on november 4, 2009. our relationship was absolutely amazing but the internet absolutely ruined it because they hated us together so we mutually broke up on october 13, 2010.

┊ ➶ ｡˚ ° andrew russell garfield [born aug. 20, 1983] is mr. wildest dreams. we met while i was auditioning for gwen stacy in the amazing spider-man of which i did get the part. we started dating on march 13, 2011 and dated up until august 19, 2014 due to me falling out of love. many of our fans were upset at the announcement as they’d hoped that we’d get married eventually.

┊ ➶ ｡˚ ° aaron perry johnson [born jun. 13, 1990] is mr. getaway car. we first met when we filmed godzilla and became friends. he filed to divorce sam in april 2014 and it’s officially finalized in october that year and unbeknownst to me, the reason for the divorce was because he’d started getting feelings for me. we started dating on january 13, 2015 which led to a lot of hate towards me with haters calling me a multitude of names, mostly ‘slut’ or ‘homewrecker’. the hate started getting to me mentally and i broke it off on april 27, 2016 which he understood. we lost contact after the break up.

┊ ➶ ｡˚ ° jonathan edward bernthal [born sept. 20, 1976] is mr. paper rings. we first met while filming season 2 of daredevil but didn’t start getting closer until filming for the punisher season 1 where we started dating on november 19, 2016. our entire relationship was kept completely private from the media & public which was something we decided together. we have two daughters together - willow laura bernthal (b. august 4, 2018) & maya iris bernthal (b. december 11, 2020). we actually got engaged on may 13, 2019 and had plans to get married in late 2023 but life got in the way and we split on good terms on march 23, 2023. i was actually very heartbroken and swore off relationships for awhile.

┊ ➶ ｡˚ ° katherine victoria litwack [born jun. 13, 1986] is mrs. bed chem. we met through a mutual friend and hit it off pretty easily. we started a casual relationship on april 4, 2024 that didn’t last very long as she wanted more but i was still heartbroken over the split with jon so we broke it off on june 27, 2024.

┊ ➶ ｡˚ ° aaron perry johnson [born jun. 13, 1990] is mr. so high school. we met again in august 2024 and reconnected easily. we haven’t started anything and have remained friends although rumors did immediately spark when he appeared in the background of some photos at my 35th birthday party. we’ll start dating again though on april 14, 2025.

[wheel-of-fish]

The Phantom of the Opera on TV (and streaming)!

I've been sitting on this list for two years in hopes of making it complete, but I realized if I wait that long I'll never post it. Let me know what I've missed!

Please note that I haven't watched all of these in their entirety and can't attest to their quality/content.

Adaptations

1983 - The Phantom of the Opera (TV movie starring Maximilian Schell, Jane Seymour)

1990 - The Phantom of the Opera (TV miniseries starring Charles Dance, Teri Polo)

Parodies

1961 - The Woody Woodpecker Show, S4. E13, "Phantom of the Horse Opera"

1962 - Beany and Cecil, S1 E12, "Phantom of the Horse Opera"

1966 - That Girl, S1 E14, "Phantom of the Horse Opera"

1968 - The Pink Panther, S1 E17, "Cherche le Phantom"

1971 - Night Gallery, S2 E4, "Phantom of What Opera?"

1974 - The Phantom of Hollywood (TV movie)

1987 - Hello Kitty's Furry Tale Theater, "The Phantom of the Theater"

1989 - Julie & Carol: Together Again, "Phantom of the Opry" sketch (TV special starring Carol Burnett, Julie Andrews)

1989 - Babar, S1 E13, "The Phantom"

1989 - Count Duckula, S1 E21, "Fright at the Opera"

1991 - Night Court, S9 E1 & E2, "A Guy Named Phantom" (clip)

1993 - Doug, S3 E5, "Doug's Huge Zit"

1994 - Lamb Chop in the Haunted Studio (TV movie starring Shari Lewis)

1995 - Goosebumps, S1 E7, "Phantom of the Auditorium"

1995 - Wishbone, S1 E37, "Pantin' at the Opera" (part 1 | part 2)

1998 - Anatole, S1 E9, "The Phantom of the Cheese"

1999 - The Triplets, S5 E9, "The Phantom of the Opera"

2000 - Are You Afraid of the Dark?, S7 E10, "The Tale of the Last Dance"

2000 - SpongeBob SquarePants, S2 E22, "Something Smells" (clip)

2010 - Scooby-Doo! Mystery Incorporated, S1 E7, "In Fear of the Phantom"

2015 - All Hail King Julien, S2 E15, "The Phantom of Club Moist"

2019 - If You Give a Mouse a Cookie, S2 E6, "If You Give a Mouse a Pumpkin"

2019 - The Tom and Jerry Show, S3 E76, "PhanTom of the Oompah"

Character appearances

1981 - The Munsters' Revenge, TV movie (clip)

1984 - Diff'rent Strokes, S6 E16, "Hooray for Hollywood - Part 1"

1997 - "Everybody (Backstreet's Back)" music video (HD version)

2009 - Saturday Night Live, "Save Broadway" sketch

2010 - It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, S6 E7, "Who Got Dee Pregnant?" (clip)

2010 - Ghouls, multiple episodes (clip)

2020 - Saturday Night Live, "Airport Sushi" sketch

ALW musical references

2006 - Family Guy, S4 E23, "Deep Throats" (clip)

2012 - Glee, S3 E18, "Choke" (clip)

2015 - The Late Late Show, Sept. 10: "James Corden joins the cast of The Phantom of the Opera"

2015 - The Late Late Show, Sept. 23: "Crosswalk the Musical: The Phantom of the Opera"

2016 - The Goldbergs, S4 E8, "The Greatest Musical Ever Written" (clip)

2018 - Jeopardy!, Feb. 15 show (clip)

2018 - The Late Late Show, June 18: "Crosswalk the Musical: Andrew Lloyd Webber classics"

2019 - The Umbrella Academy, S1 E1, "We Only See Each Other at Weddings and Funerals" (audio)

2020 - Dash & Lily, S1 E4, "Cinderella"

2020 - The Crown, S4 E9, "Avalanche" (clip)

2022 - The Masked Singer, S8 E4, "Andrew Lloyd Webber Night"

Other

1991 - David Copperfield: Secret of the Phantom of the Opera (TV special)

[emergingghost]

julien baker in the punk and hardcore scene, a masterpost

clips of Julien Baker at DIY punk and hardcore shows over the years. predominantly with The Star Killers, Forrister and her involvement in Wicker, Smith7 in general + other miscellaneous house shows including some performances of sprained ankle and totl songs pre-release!

if you watch any of these smith7 shows (even ones without julien) you can see how powerful this community is in giving people a voice and the confidence to play music and be heard. and it's cool to see how much this philosophy seems to have stayed with julien in how she approaches music and performs. you'll find a good amount of weird julien lore and notice people she still works with today throughout so! enjoy!

organised by year, videos linked and timestamped as '[x]' some of these links you might think 'why have i been sent here? where's julien?' just wait and trust me and my timestamps!

i would've liked to have timestamped each song in the longer sets so you could find a particular song but that is just TOO much. sorry! there are shorter clips here and there of individual songs too though!

2011:

The Star Killers - Typical Tuesday at St. Blues Guitars in Memphis. June 7th [x]

2012:

Wicker acoustic show at the Death Star. June 23rd. (jb's not on camera but you can hear her in the background joining in on some songs etc. Creech is on guitar throughout and Matt plays drums at the end) [x]

The Star Killers - Vertical Cities at The Abbey. Jan 23rd [x]

The Star Killers - Vampiretown. Feb 9th [x]

The Star Killers - Boot $coot at The Abbey. June 19th [x]

2013:

The Star Killers - Pants Tour at Memphis Music Shop. July 25th. Parts 1-7 below:

-> 1. The Love Song Blues [x]

-> 2. Typical Tuesday [x]

-> 3. Thank You, Mr Durden [x]

-> 4. Vertical Cities [x]

-> 5. Lynchpin [x]

-> 6. The Boot $coot $hakedown [x]

-> 7. The Pardoner's Tale [x] different POV > [x]

The Star Killers - Pardoner's Tale at 1372 Overton Park. Jan 8th [x]

The Star Killers - ENT performed in Memphis. Jan 9th [x]

The Star Killers - Pants Tour Night 1 at The Refuge. June 22nd [x]

The Star Killers - Acoustic at The Abbey. May 30th [x]

-> Dallas. (same show as above, diff. POV) [x]

-> Folsom Prison / Love Song Blues (diff. POV) [x]

The Star Killers - Black Poppy Wine at Crosstown Arts Space TN. July 23rd [x]

The Star Killers - Last show with John at The Death Star. Pants Tour. June 24th [x]

-> ENT (same show, diff. POV) [x]

2014:

The Star Killers - Black Poppy Wine at Crosstown (maybe). different show to above, tiny clip [x]

The Star Killers - performing (i can't figure out this song!) at Crosstown. July 5th [x]

The Star Killers - at Smith 7 House in Memphis. [x]

Wicker - Acoustic Pants (ft. JB on piano) at Avenue Coffee. July 17th [x]

Smith7 Records World Pants Tour days 1-4 (pants tour ~vlog + lil the star killers clip at the start) [x]

Smith7 Records World Pants Tour days 9-13 (two the star killers clips time stamped! second is Epilogue) [x] [x]

2015:

The Star Killers: the end of pants 2014 [x]

Julien Baker solo - Decorated Lawns at Gutterhouse in Memphis. Jan 9th [x]

Forrister - Choked Up - the Hi-Tone. late spring. [x]

Wicker at the Gutterhouse, Pants Tour. June 5th [x] (jb doing the cord around the neck thing ha!)

Forrister - Pants Tour at the Gutterhouse. June 5th [x]

-> Make Everything Right (same show, diff POV) [x]

Forrister - Pants Tour at The Warehaus. June 6th [x]

-> Pontchartrain (diff. POV) [x]

Julien Baker solo (Sprained Ankle tunes pre-release) at Nostromo Nashville. Aug 7th [x]

Forrister & Wicker - The Tour of Northern Aggression at Exponent Manor in Nashville. July 5th [x]

-> Nick Carpenter/Medium Build mention and sighting! [x]

Wicker at Castle Endor. Nov 25th (lil clip of JB talking) [x]

Swordfish (another JB band? lore unknown!) at Castle Endor. Nov 25th (it's so dark but trust me, watch the whole thing!) [x]

Forrister at Castle Endor. Dec 21st [x]

The Acorns at Castle Endor. Dec 21st (JB just hanging out in the corner occasionally speaking. also notably an og performance of Bedbugs!) [x]

2016:

Smith7 Pants Tour Video 2015:

-> snippet of Forrister, followed by JB performing with Small Fires(Fries?) (also this is obviously a different ry*n ad*ms!) and Wicker [x]

-> snippet of Forrister [x]

-> JB performing Rejoice [x]

Forrister at Yung Spotty. April 3rd [x]

Multiple performances for: Trevor's Birthday at Castle Endor. Feb 13th.

-> 'Marlins Will Soar' (JB performing) [x]

-> Forrister [x]

-> Wicker [x]

Forrister Pants Tour at Circle Music. July 12th [x] diff POV > [x]

Wicker Pants Tour at Castle Endor. July 16th (JB does some singing and then is lurking in the corner for the rest) [x]

Forrister Pants Tour at Castle Endor. Aug 6th [x]

Wicker Pants Tour at Circle Music. Aug 20th (JB crops up a few times throughout but have stamped a larger portion) [x]

Smith7 Pants Tour 2016: (vlog ft. a few JB clips and two brief Forrister clips) [x] [x] [x] [x]

2017:

Julien performing her unreleased song The Linguist in the web series 'Feral' [x] (video) [x] (audio only)

Pillow Talk Pants Tour at Finn Pablo's July 3rd. (Pillow Talk is Calvin Lauber's old band and JB sings in the studio version of their song Monogomy which is performed first. she's not in this clip i just think it's some good lore and good music) [x]

Wicker Smith7 Pants Tour w/ Church & Destroy & The Acorns at Castle Endor. June 23rd.

-> JB playing guitar on the left throughout the Wicker set until about 28mins [x]

-> JB is jessica jones? [x]

-> JB covering songs by Ryan Hailey including Bedbugs) [x] (if youre going to watch one vid watch this!)

-> same performance as above just cut into a shorter clip [x]

-> mountain dew concoction review [x]

Julien performing solo - Epilogue by The Star Killers 1884 Lounge in Memphis. Dec 1st

-> audio only: [x]

-> short video of same performance: [x]

INVOLVEMENT IN OTHER PUNK & HARDCORE SHOWS:

Julien performing solo - Boo Pristine by Wicker and transitioning into Something in Memphis. Dec 1st (audio only) [x]

2015:

Julien stage diving/screaming into the mic at a Touché Amoré show at Chain Reaction, Anaheim. Nov 1st 2015. (she opened for them at this show!) (30min mark if the stamp doesnt work) [x]

Julien's own solo performance from the above show. (THE "honesty transcends genre" show! ft. Jeremy Bolm watching in awe from side stage) [x]

2018:

Touché Amoré ft. Julien Baker - Skyscraper in Detroit. April 10th 2018 [x / x]

Touché Amoré ft. Julien Baker - Skyscraper in Nashville. May 1st 2018 [x / x]

2020:

Julien performing with Slider (Mariah Schneider's band) covering Iron Maiden. Jan 10th [x] (ive decided this is random but cool enough to include!)

2023:

Touché Amoré ft. Julien Baker - Reminders in LA at The Novo - Dec 8th 2023. (multiple POVs) [x] [x] [x] [x] [x]

Turnstile ft. Julien Baker - UNDERWATER BOI in Paris at Rock en Seine Aug 26th 2023 [x] [x] [x]

Struggle - Yet

PUNK & HARDCORE SONGS JB IS FEATURED ON:

(if some of these aren't technically punk or hxc...whatever!) - all available on spotify, apple and youtube. some also on bandcamp.

Horses... Ride Them Or (Great Story Garrett) - Wicker [x] (on spotify but linked yt)

Monogamy - Pillow Talk (TN) (Pillow Talk is Calvin Lauber's old band!)

Reminders - Touché Amoré [x] (lil clip of JB & Beans in the mv)

Skyscraper - Touché Amoré

UNDERWATER BOI - Turnstile

Sport of Form - The Armed

In Heaven - The Armed

Track XXIII - Fucked Up

Track IVII - Fucked Up

Track IVIII - Fucked Up

Goodbye for Now - Touché Amoré [x] (clips of JB in the mv)

HARDCORE/PUNK ADJACENT ARTISTS COVERING JB SONGS:

The Devil Wears Prada covering Sour Breath [x]

Dashboard Confessional covering Sprained Ankle [x] (also on spotify)

PODCASTS ABOUT THE PUNK & HARDCORE SCENE JB IS FEATURED ON:

Dustin Kensrue (of Thrice) covering Blacktop [x]

Turned out a Punk (on spotify too but ive just linked yt)

-> part 1 "Julien Baker from boygenius is here!" [x]

-> part 2 "Julien Baker is back" [x]

The First Ever Podcast (vocalist of Touché Amoré, Jeremy Bolm's podcast)

-> Julien Baker: Memorial-Day-Sale-at-Guitar-Centre-Riff.

[spotify] [apple] [patreon] (i think theres actually a video on patreon?? unsure, but its behind a pay wall)