#aa4 and aa5 are in CONVERSATION with each other

[shitpostingkats]

Man I've been playing through dual destinies and the visceral Apollo and Athena contrasts are making me go insane.

Your name is Apollo Justice. You are a lawyer. You're a pawn. You're a weapon. Your mentor is a jackass and your rival only sees you as a ghost of his brother. You're pushed around town to run chores you aren't being rewarded for. You are volunteered to deliver revenge on behalf of your jackass mentor, who refuses to tell you anything because it might spoil his game. When you falter, everyone tells you to learn to stand up on your own. Your mother finally learns of your existence, but she isn't ready, so everyone agrees not to tell you. After all, it's her feelings that are at stake. Apollo? It's never about Apollo.

Your name is Athena Cykes. You are a lawyer. You got here all by yourself, clawed your way to it all on your own. Your mentor set aside space in his life to take you under his wing, to offer advice and security. He takes over when you falter, and walks you through everything he's doing, so you can one day stand without assistance. You keep working, so so hard, because everyone in the courtroom is a familiar face. Your childhood friend. Your mentor. Your coworker who is slowly losing it, and you're not sure why, but you're pretty sure it's your fault. The man who gave up everything for you. Athena? Everything is about Athena.

Neither of you is okay.

[found-family-tournament]

Found Family Tournament Round 2 Part 9 Group 42

Propaganda and further images under the cut

Wright Anything Agency (& Company): Phoenix & Trucy Wright, Apollo Justice, Maya Fey, Miles Edgeworth, Pearl Fey, Ema Skye, Kay Faraday & Sebastian Debeste

221B Fam: Ryunosuke Naruhodo, Susato Mikotoba, Herlock Sholmes, Iris Wilson, Wagahai (& Gina Lestrade, Yujin Mikotoba, Kazuma Asogi, Barok van Zieks)

Wright Anything Agency (& Company):

THEY MEAN THE WORLDDDDD TO MEEEEEE for some reason a lot of people in the fandom don't play Ace Attorney 5 which is fair since it's kind of messy BUT. BUT. IT INTRODUCES ATHENA AND DOES SOOOO MUCH FOR THE WRIGHT ANYTHING AGENCY. In AA4 we learn that Trucy Wright made the Wright Talent Agency into the Wright Anything Agency in order to bring Apollo in as a lawyer when before it was just her (a magician) and her adopted father Phoenix (a poker player). and AA5 is all about Athena joining and Apollo learning how to trust her, at least it is to ME. they're so gooddddd aaaaaaa like you've got Phoenix and Trucy who are weirdos who love to scheme and you've got Apollo their longsuffering guy who deals with it all, and Phoenix is the mentor... and then Athena comes in and she has a lot of light and determination and trauma (just like the rest of them lol) and she's SO determined and I like her a lot!! And Trucy is my favorite and Phoenix cares about her SO much but he also has his other found family in the Feys!!!!!! Mia dies in the first game but her ghost stays with Phoenix and her sister/cousin Maya and Pearl are SO IMPORTANT TO HIM he loves them so much that's his sisters to me ;-; he would do anything for them and Trucy and he's growing as a mentor to Apollo and Athena too as the game progress... They don't write them all perfectly but they sure do a lot of things I like :) also feel free to split this up into their Wright Anything Agency or Phoenix + the Feys or Phoenix + Trucy if you need to I won't mind I just love AA's found family a lot

Picture this. You are a attorney in your mid 20s and somehow find yourself surrounded by weird little girls with every case you take on. You officially adopt one but really, all of them are either sisters or daughters to you. Especially your loud, burger-loving lesbian sister. Your childhood friend turned rival turned lover, who has a whip-wielding adoptive sister of his own, goes on a series of investigations while messing around with a furry for a couple of weeks and returns with two 17 year old children, a thieving lesbian and a child with a narcissistic murderer for a father who should've kept him back in school a few grades. Your lover has each of them under an arm, and they are appended to your stable of weird little girls but are very much hidden in the back. Then you find out that your daughter, the official one, has a 22yo trans half-brother with a musical diva mother and was half raised as a prince in Khura'in, so you divorce his boss (who is not your official lover, you just had a weird thing for a while when you were in your alcoholic phase, maybe while your actual lover was still messing around with the furry) very publicly while sending him to prison for murdering your daughter's father. Oh, but you have been disbarred, so you make your daughter's son send his own boss to prison, by planting false evidence on him. Of course the young man punches you in the face. Needless to say he works for you for a couple of years and never finds out that he's related to your daughter because that would require a straightforward conversation, now wouldn't it?

only one of them has never been arrested. only two of them arent lawyers. theyre all gay

Theyre very weird and misteruous and kinda fucked up a bit and they were through a lot but phoenix did his best and trucy well she's still just a kid but oh she's trying so fucking hard and always trying to wear a smile and it's breaking my heart the two of them. Also theyre weird i already said that but let me say it again they are WEIRD. and we love them<3 (the ace attorney fandom)

221B Fam:

I dont have much to say i am just constantly rotating them in my mind BUT i have to say the the last image i attached contains like MAJOR spoilers lol i just wanted the canon images in there

Ace Attorney has some wonderful found families, but this one's particularly special because of their circumstances. An exchange student and his unhinged weirdgirl assistant from Japan feeling so out of place in turn-of-the-century Great Britain, yet finding a completely batshit insane family during their time there...it's just so <3 <3 <3 Also Ryunosuke calls them "the greatest family in the world" and it makes my heart happy. Also they commit lots of crimes

[shrinkthisviolet]

Talk Shop Tuesday - would you ever write fic for Ace Attorney and if so, what are your (possible) ideas?

Yes indeed! And I have a few fic concepts:

Maya time-travels from 3-5 (or post-AA3) to 1-2. She saves Mia and proceeds to try to fix other events during the trilogy. Her goal is to prevent as much tragedy as possible (some is unavoidable…but she tries to avoid all of it wherever she can). Chaos, shenanigans…plenty of feels. I don’t have much else to flesh out this concept, but it’s near and dear to me 💞 (and maybe Franziska time-traveled too and they get to know each other better 👀)

I’ve also thought about writing a Phoenix/Edgeworth roleswap, ever since I first heard Edgeworth said “want to switch, Wright?” in 3-5. Idk exactly how it would go, but it’s a fun idea!

Something about Franmaya and their parallels! Let them have a proper conversation at least, come on Capcom (I’ve read some amazing fics in this vein, but I might take my own crack at it too)

I definitely wanna write something for Athena & Blackquill 💞 I adore them so, so much. When I replay AA5, I’ll probably do it.

Something for Apollo & Kristoph! Their tragic/twisted mentor/mentee relationship is sooo fascinating to me. And especially an exploration of how it influenced him even beyond AA4…and how Klavier, if he was around more than just in 5-3 (which he should’ve been, smh), might’ve reacted badly to Apollo’s behavior during the AA5 finale case 🥺

Apollo & Edgeworth’s parallels are criminally underexplored, WHERE are the fics ✋ I guess I gotta write one now

talk shop tuesday!

[phantomquill]

hi! sorry it took me forever to get back to you, i had a ridiculously busy week...!

@briefspotoflight said:

Thanks for responding to me. Hope you don’t mind if it add on to the conversation again… I think one of the worst moves in the series was keeping Phoenix around after the original trilogy ended. If AJAA had just been it’s own thing (like Takumi wanted) set in the same universe, with maybe just a reference or two to Phoenix (kind of like the Investigations games) it wouldn’t have received so much backlash from fans. Phoenix’s story has nowhere to go anymore, so now he just either retreads the same plot lines (ie bringing back Maya, for her to be framed for murder again) or he’s just an unnecessary third party in the other protagonist’s stories. It just seems weird to bring back Phoenix, and the older cast, and then go with a completely different writing style. It kinda clashes (in my opinion anyway) to see Phoenix as this near superheroic figure, and embodiment of law and justice, when his character in the original trilogy was just a normal guy, and wasn’t even particularly respected by his peers. If Capcom was brave, and wanted to really bring new ground to the franchise, they would have wipe the slate clean. Just cut Phoenix out of the story, leave Apollo in Kura’in, and either give Athena the staring role (maybe have her return to Europe with Simon or something) or have a brand new character, with a new story, be the lead.

i feel very similar wrt phoenix; i get why they wanted to bring him back as a protagonist, but i don't like it!! AA4 feels like it really is the conclusion to him as a character and his story, and like it's just the beginning of apollo's, so it was a good place to leave him. but even if they felt attached to his character and really wanted him to be in AA5, there were plenty of other ways they could have done that, that i would have liked better, too.

i used to joke about how phoenix should retire (or die), but really, my issue with his appearance is that it just that phoenix shouldn't have been the same protagonist that he was in AA1 - AA3. he went through really significant changes in AA4, both as a character and as a person. he spent a long time away from being a lawyer, got older, became a dad - those things affect how his character acts and thinks and you can see this in AA4... and they're not changes that would be undone just by getting his badge back. but in AA5, they kind of... try and take all of that back, and it's so disappointing. he's like a watered down version of trilogy phoenix, and everyone in the game keeps hyping up how important and great he is even though he's always been, and still is, literally just some guy. tangentially, i also don't like how trucy got kind of reduced to being yet another quirky spunky girl and how watered down her relationship to phoenix is compared to how it was in AA4.

but anyway if they were going to bring him back, i would have liked to see him in a new role (what if he got his badge back, but didn't work as a defense attorney? what if he became an actor instead? or a reporter, and played a similar role to lotta? or did, like, literally anything else?) - like other recurring characters, he could have been in just one or two cases, and i think it could have been really fun without detracting from the rest of the story. and i also really don't think that he should have been a protagonist (especially not in AA5 which has a bit of a "too many protagonists" problem, haha), but if it at least felt like they were still building something new onto his character, or trying something different, i wouldn't have minded it as much. i guess that just comes back around to what you said earlier, too - i like it when the different games actually build off of each other, and AA5 does not build off of AA4, or any of the games before it, really.

but by now... i'm not really sure what i'd want from the series anymore, if anything at all, tbh. i don't expect a next main title to really build off of anything else written so far, since AA5 and AA6 didn't, and even if it did - i'm not really interested in seeing something build off of where AA6 left off. they've created a new version of AA's universe i'm uninterested in, they dropped apollo in racist fantasy writing central and left him there for some fucking reason, the characters are much weaker, like... what is there left to salvage? and dropping all of it to try and create yet another detached entry that breaks continuity wouldn't make me happy, either. if i want ace attorney without the mess they've made of its universe and continuity, i might as well just play other mystery games. there's plenty good games that have nothing to do with AA's current canon becase they're not AA games.

i'm sure i'll play and enjoy AA7 if they ever make it, but i really don't mind if they never do. i think it would be fun to see another installment of AAI, or another spinoff title *like TGAA and PLvsPW are) though... but then again, part of what i liked about the AAI titles is how they slot inbetween the main titles and add just a little bit extra to the characters they are about, so i'm not even entirely sure how well a theoretical AAI3 set in the AA5 - AA6 timeline could even do that and still remotely make sense, heh. but hey, open mind and all that. i should probably refrain from judging it before they've even made one.

(btw, i love talking (about games, but also in general), so you're always welcome to comment on or talk on any of my posts, no need to be shy! even if i might not be able to reply quickly, you're not bothering me or anything)

hi @briefspotoflight ! i'm replying in a seperate post, but it's also kind of long so i'm putting it under a readmore. again for everyone else: spoiler warning for AA5/AA6

@briefspotoflight (in response to this post): I agree with a lot of this, and even though I still love AA, I really haven’t been as interested in the last couple of games. Partly because, like you said, the tone of series has definitely changed, and has become very heavy handed in how they write the characters especially the villains. The Phantom’s plan is very nonsensical (ie why did he need to frame Athena when he could’ve just let Starbuck take the fall? Why did he present the winning evidence himself?) and because he’s “just a spooky, faceless spy” his motivations for was he does are just hand waved as “he’s just evil lol”, and Queen Gar’ran is the weakest villain in the series yet. She’s not clever, she’s not funny, she has no sympathetic or interesting motives for her crimes, and only exists to show that a country that executes lawyers is bad…yeah. It’s also been pretty disappointing that, after AJAA, the series the games haven’t really been coherent narrative anymore. (ie defeating Von Karma doesn’t magically make everything better, it only just begins the set up for Edgeworth’s character development, and introducing Franziska into the story) Every game, from AA1 -AAAJ, followed up on plot points set up in the previous game. However nothing in DD followed up on anything from AJ, and nothing from SoJ followed up on anything from DD. I really wish that, rather than make up unnecessary backstories for the main characters, we had felt some consequences from important events, like what was the Gavin family’s background? (Was there a deeper meaning to Kristoph’s actions?) The fallout from The Phantom impersonating Fulbright (like a new character he was close to, needing Athena to help deal with his death?). Ffs the writers are so scared to go back to old plot points, that they haven’t even told Apollo and Trucy that they’re siblings (in fact now that Athena is the “main assistant” Apollo has barely interacted with Trucy…)and their mother is still alive! Your thoughts?

i'm much in the same boat - i thought AA5 and AA6 were fun to play, but i don't like what they add to AA as an overall series, and i'm not a fan of the way they're written or many of the choices made in the writing process. AA6 even more than AA5 - i wish it was its own standalone thing instead of an actual entry in the series.

but i do *get* why those choices were made, though, and i've (mostly) made my peace with it (<- #coping). ace attorney isn't just its writing; it's also a product capcom sells, and a lot of the choices made in AA5 (and AA6) prioritize the sellability of the game over AA's overall story. phoenix comes back as a protagonist because he's the unofficial mascot of the series and the character that sells, and they went into the writing of AA5 having already decided beforehand phoenix had to return - this was always a priority to the writers well over actually following up on apollo or trucy. like you, i enjoy how AA1 - AA4 tie together and expand on one big story, but the writers aimed to make a game that could be enjoyed both by old and new fans, and they probably thought it would have lost them sales if the game only made sense following four other titles, and/or they might have worried they'd have lost sales on AA1 - 4 if it spoiled a lot of its plot twists by actually following up on things. that's mostly me theorizing about the process based on things i've read, but all that to say i don't think the choices made were strange.

and all of it leads up to what AA5 is: it's got two too many protagonists for one game, its a terrible follow-up to AA4 or apollo's character, and a lot of the story and writing is like... just kind of what it is because the writers say so (the amount of emphasis on that "dark age of the law" stuff! it's so silly and hammy, especially with how nearly every other AA game was ALSO about corruption in the law and police force. why would it matter phoenix got disbarred?!) - which is a terrible approach to writing mystery stories!

i've thought extensively about what i would change about AA5 or the direction of the series if i could rewrite it... that could be a whole essay on its own though, ha ha. but the short version is that i think AA5 should have been an actual apollo game, and i think the main story of DD could have been saved for an eventual AA6 (instead of that being SoJ). AA5 could have gotten more into apollo and trucy's family, there could have been "the big sibling reveal" as a plot device in the middle of one of the cases (though honestly i'd have been fine with them not finding out in AA5 if the game had at least been *about* them!), and athena could have been introduced as a character, without having been the protagonist - maybe in something like turnabout academy. because as much as i like her, i wish she didn't have her entire backstory and character arc crammed into DD - i think it would have been better with more breathing room. and there's many things i dislike about SoJ as an AA entry, but the main thing i dislike about it was the decision to make it take place in some distant fantasy country. i don't even want to get into it tbh LOL - but a lot of the actual cases from SoJ were pretty fun, and i would've recycled some of it into my theoretical-ideal-AA5, like for example the magical turnabout or turnabout storyteller might have still worked there.

anyway... yeah. i agree with most of that too and that's my thoughts on that. i've got a lot of thoughts on the way the phantom is written specifically too (poorly) so i like to bat around ideas about their theoretical motives or reasoning that would somehow make their actions make sense, or what would have been a good followup to what happened with their character but like... while being a fan with a little conspiracy board is fun, i wish the actual text was better so i didn't first have to come up with the character myself to then have my theories about, heh.

i think based on your thoughts, you might get a kick out of this post modmad wrote explaining their feelings about the AA5 ending - i think they put into words what i felt was frustrating about the way the phantom was written much better than i could have, and also (spoilers for the post i suppose) they thought that the phantom was going to be kristoph. because, you know, it would have made sense if AA5 actually tied back to AA4 somehow.

anyway... thanks for sharing your thoughts & leaving a comment, hehe.

[found-family-tournament]

Found Family Tournament Round 1 Part 20 Group 100

Propaganda and further pictures under the cut

Reds and Blues: Grif, Simmons, Sarge, Donut, Lopez, Doc, Caboose, Church, Tucker, Agent Washington, Agent Carolina, Locus

Wright Anything Agency (& Company): Phoenix & Trucy Wright, Apollo Justice, Maya Fey, Miles Edgeworth, Pearl Fey, Ema Skye, Kay Faraday & Sebastian Debeste

Submissions are still open!

Reds and Blues:

My babies are all assholes but love each other deep down

Wright Anything Agency (& Company):

THEY MEAN THE WORLDDDDD TO MEEEEEE for some reason a lot of people in the fandom don't play Ace Attorney 5 which is fair since it's kind of messy BUT. BUT. IT INTRODUCES ATHENA AND DOES SOOOO MUCH FOR THE WRIGHT ANYTHING AGENCY. In AA4 we learn that Trucy Wright made the Wright Talent Agency into the Wright Anything Agency in order to bring Apollo in as a lawyer when before it was just her (a magician) and her adopted father Phoenix (a poker player). and AA5 is all about Athena joining and Apollo learning how to trust her, at least it is to ME. they're so gooddddd aaaaaaa like you've got Phoenix and Trucy who are weirdos who love to scheme and you've got Apollo their longsuffering guy who deals with it all, and Phoenix is the mentor... and then Athena comes in and she has a lot of light and determination and trauma (just like the rest of them lol) and she's SO determined and I like her a lot!! And Trucy is my favorite and Phoenix cares about her SO much but he also has his other found family in the Feys!!!!!! Mia dies in the first game but her ghost stays with Phoenix and her sister/cousin Maya and Pearl are SO IMPORTANT TO HIM he loves them so much that's his sisters to me ;-; he would do anything for them and Trucy and he's growing as a mentor to Apollo and Athena too as the game progress... They don't write them all perfectly but they sure do a lot of things I like :) also feel free to split this up into their Wright Anything Agency or Phoenix + the Feys or Phoenix + Trucy if you need to I won't mind I just love AA's found family a lot

Picture this. You are a attorney in your mid 20s and somehow find yourself surrounded by weird little girls with every case you take on. You officially adopt one but really, all of them are either sisters or daughters to you. Especially your loud, burger-loving lesbian sister. Your childhood friend turned rival turned lover, who has a whip-wielding adoptive sister of his own, goes on a series of investigations while messing around with a furry for a couple of weeks and returns with two 17 year old children, a thieving lesbian and a child with a narcissistic murderer for a father who should've kept him back in school a few grades. Your lover has each of them under an arm, and they are appended to your stable of weird little girls but are very much hidden in the back. Then you find out that your daughter, the official one, has a 22yo trans half-brother with a musical diva mother and was half raised as a prince in Khura'in, so you divorce his boss (who is not your official lover, you just had a weird thing for a while when you were in your alcoholic phase, maybe while your actual lover was still messing around with the furry) very publicly while sending him to prison for murdering your daughter's father. Oh, but you have been disbarred, so you make your daughter's son send his own boss to prison, by planting false evidence on him. Of course the young man punches you in the face. Needless to say he works for you for a couple of years and never finds out that he's related to your daughter because that would require a straightforward conversation, now wouldn't it?

only one of them has never been arrested. only two of them arent lawyers. theyre all gay

Theyre very weird and misteruous and kinda fucked up a bit and they were through a lot but phoenix did his best and trucy well she's still just a kid but oh she's trying so fucking hard and always trying to wear a smile and it's breaking my heart the two of them. Also theyre weird i already said that but let me say it again they are WEIRD. and we love them<3 (the ace attorney fandom)

[yellowistheraddest]

heres the things that i know from each game, spoilers ahead duhh.. and also long post

AA4

played through the first case and got through the 2nd case's first investigation section

kristoph is evil, no clue why but slay ig

theres a purple girl who draws

apollo and trucy are (half) siblings

trucys grandad got killed and her uncle did something and fucked up their family

klaviers guitar sets on fire

klavier knows a&t's mom, doesn't know shes their mom because she mysterious - go, girl!!

klavier has a friend with haircut that legit looks like a pp

klavier was the one who got phoenix disbarred

apollo screams

ema is useless, as expected of a detective character (sorry not sorry gumshoe, at least he was funny)

apollo has a cat

uhhhh trucys bio dad gets killed, that's what he gets for abandoning his kid

the music cornered music is great

and other small details

also -20/10 for no edgeworth content, absolutely fucked up

AA5+6 as i cant differentiate between them

horrible 3d models im throwing up and crying

played through the first case on both games

apollo goes emo

athena's whole mood gag gets boring real quick

athena mom is a lesbian, happy pride history month

simon didnt kill her, not sure, pretty sure he got framed and got into death row

bobby!!! idk what he does but he is great

phantom more like, phan - im pretty sure its Simon or bobby because theres no other major new characters to fill the role - tom

apollo has a new fucking backstory and an astronaut friend cause why not ig

phoenix gets his badge back - and continues being a bi icon

clown tiddies

that's all i can think of for what i think is aa5..

aa6 is the worst game by far literally just delete it

the fucking princess that does the dance ... literally run her over with a bus - interacted with her once and i never hated someone more (i will be hater even if she has a decent character arc dont worry)

apollo lived in khuran (idk if that's how you spell it) because his back story wasnt a shit show already

epic dog content (aka edgeworth stands there with a dog on his neck, fashion world is quaking)

nahyuta is like apollos brother ig and their dad is like planning an uprising (anarchy my beloved)

nahyuta was supposed to be a gender nonconforming character and they chickened out, L

whats crack-a-lackin homie

phoenix goes to khuran alone but some shit happens and the entire crew comes

sorry the 3d models are horrible and the cut scenes with the voices..... literally why, the trilogy was fine without the cut scenes

the iconic flying chapel conversation, literally the reason I'm homophobic /j

the pun names are 40 times worse

in one of them phoenix is a prosecutor idk why but ig he got inspired by 3-4

thats about all i can think of now..

so yeah ive been eyeballing most of the shit for the past 3 years

i really should play aa4, 5, 6 cuz i know fuck all about anything besides the main characters.. also the trilogy is getting kinda stale

[charleemoon]

i think i just got stabbed to death

Man I've been playing through dual destinies and the visceral Apollo and Athena contrasts are making me go insane.

Your name is Apollo Justice. You are a lawyer. You're a pawn. You're a weapon. Your mentor is a jackass and your rival only sees you as a ghost of his brother. You're pushed around town to run chores you aren't being rewarded for. You are volunteered to deliver revenge on behalf of your jackass mentor, who refuses to tell you anything because it might spoil his game. When you falter, everyone tells you to learn to stand up on your own. Your mother finally learns of your existence, but she isn't ready, so everyone agrees not to tell you. After all, it's her feelings that are at stake. Apollo? It's never about Apollo.

Your name is Athena Cykes. You are a lawyer. You got here all by yourself, clawed your way to it all on your own. Your mentor set aside space in his life to take you under his wing, to offer advice and security. He takes over when you falter, and walks you through everything he's doing, so you can one day stand without assistance. You keep working, so so hard, because everyone in the courtroom is a familiar face. Your childhood friend. Your mentor. Your coworker who is slowly losing it, and you're not sure why, but you're pretty sure it's your fault. The man who gave up everything for you. Athena? Everything is about Athena.

Neither of you is okay.