#and asmodeus has a son (not actually but it's difficult)

[delsinsfire]

Running a dnd campaign through the Nine Hells is great because i get to be 9 incredibly powerful archdevils and also i get to make every single one of them unreasonably sexy

[lila-kriegerin]

A lot of people don't realise how interesting this is that interlocking triangles, AKA "Star of David" or HEXAgram (not PENTAgram), was found on this marble of a synagogue. This is further evidence that the practice of using this decorative element (plus the interlocked squares, long predates the beginning of Islam.

It's a simple geometric shape, so I'm not claiming no one thought it up before the Jews, nor couldn't independently come up with it far away from Amy contact with the Jewish people— I'm just pointing it out because a lot of online leftist posts will say things like "the star of David is actually known as The Seal of Suleyman/Solomon in Islam and Israel and every Zio(nist) copies and steals and culturepoaches..." yadda yadda.

The hexagram appears occasionally in Jewish contexts since antiquity as a decorative motif, such as a stone bearing a hexagram from the arch of the 3rd–4th century Khirbet Shura synagogue.

A hexagram found in an unquestionably religious Jewish context can be seen in a manuscript of the Hebrew Bible from 11th-century Cairo.

As for the association of the shape with something explicitly called "Solomon's seal", the date of origin legends surrounding the Seal of Solomon is difficult to establish.

A legend of a magic ring with which the possessor could command demons was already current in the 1st century (Josephus) telling of one Eleazar who used such a ring in the presence of Vespasian, but the association of the name of Solomon with such a ring is likely medieval notwithstanding the 2nd century apocryphal text the Testament of Solomon. The Tractate Gittin (fol. 68) of the Talmud has a story involving Solomon, Asmodeus, and a ring with the divine name engraved: Solomon gives the ring and a chain to one Benaiahu son of Jehoiada to catch the demon Ashmedai, to obtain the demon's help to build the temple; Ashmedai later tricks Solomon into giving him the ring and swallows it.

The tradition of Solomon's Seal later made its way into Islamic Arab sources, as Gershom Scholem (the founder of the modern, academic study of Kabbalah) attests "It is difficult to say for how long certain definite names have been used for several of the most common seals. The Arabs made many such terms especially popular, but just the names Seal of Solomon and Shield of David, which are often used interchangeably for the two emblems, go back to pre-Islamic Jewish magic. They did not originate among the Arabs who, incidentally, know only the designation Seal of Solomon."

The specification of the design of the seal as a hexagram (usually eith a circle around it) seems to arise from a medieval Arab tradition, and most scholars assume that the symbol entered the Kabbalistic tradition of medieval Spain from Arabic literature.

The representation as a pentagram, by contrast, seems to arise in the Western tradition of Renaissance magic (which was in turn strongly influenced by medieval Arab and Jewish occultism); W. Kennett (1660–1728) makes reference to a "pentangle of Solomon" with the power of exorcising demons.

In Islamic eschatology, some believe that the Beast of the Earth, which should appear near the Last Judgment day, will come bearing "the Seal of Solomon", and will use the latter to stamp the noses of the unbelievers. This has often been used to justify antisemitic beliefs and attitudes, but careful Muslims of the ummah should know better.

However, it should be known that hexagrams feature prominently in Jewish esoteric literature from the early medieval period, and it has been hypothesized that the tradition of it being called Solomon's Seal may possibly predate Islam and date to early Rabbinical esoteric tradition, or to early alchemy in Hellenistic Judaism in 3rd century Egypt.

A derivation of the seal of Solomon was used for decorative and mystical purposes by Muslims and Kabbalistic Jews. Its association as a distinctive symbol for the Jewish people and their religion dates to 17th-century Prague, when it was used again to identify Jews. In the 19th century, the symbol began to be widely used by the Jewish communities of Eastern Europe, ultimately coming to represent Jewish identity or religious beliefs, which led to its later adoption on the Israeli flag.

Ancient Jewish marble and prayer book from Bulgaria, from the Jewish historical museum at the Central Sofia Synagogue.

The history of Jews in Bulgarian lands dates back more than 2000 years. The largest part of the Bulgarian Jewish community before the 15th century belonged to the Hellenic (Romaniote) rite. In the center of Plovdiv, the remains of an ancient synagogue from the 3rd century, when the city was under the control of the severians, were recently found. Even the faith of the early Bulgarian Christians was a syncretistic mixture of Christian, Jewish, and pagan beliefs. The monks Cyril and Methodius consulted Jewish scholars in the preparation of their literary work. In the early 12th century Leo Mung, born a Jew and later a pupil of the 11th-century Bulgarian Talmudist Tobiah b. Eliezer, became archbishop of the diocese of Ochrida and Primate of Bulgaria. Tsar Ivan Alexander (1331-1371) married a Jewish girl named Sarah, who took the name Theodora at her baptizing.

[neil-gaiman]

How Did you come up with the first eve in the story about adams wives? I haven’t been able to find anything about her after I read it and I want to know if she’s an actual biblical character or just someone you made

She's from the Midrash. I learned about her as a 12 year old, from my barmitzvah teacher. There was a point in there, long after I'd put her into Sandman, where I was starting to think I'd imagined her, when I ran across her in Robert Graves's Hebrew Myths....

Excerpt from: The Hebrew Myths by Robert Graves and Raphael Patai (New York:  Doubleday, 1964), pp 65-69

Chapter 10: Adam's Helpmeets

(a) Having decided to give Adam a helpmeet lest he should be alone of his kind, God put him into a deep sleep, removed one of his ribs, formed it into a woman, and closed up the wound, Adam awoke and said: 'This being shall be named "Woman", because she has been taken out of man. A man and a woman shall be one flesh.' The title he gave her was Eve, 'the Mother of All Living''. [1]

(b) Some say that God created man and woman in His own image on the Sixth Day, giving them charge over the world; [2]  but that Eve did not yet exist. Now, God had set Adam to name every beast, bird and other living thing. When they passed before him in pairs, male and female, Adam-being already like a twenty-year-old man-felt jealous of their loves, and though he tried coupling with each female in turn, found no satisfaction in the act. He therefore cried: 'Every creature but I has a proper mate', and prayed God would remedy this injustice. [3]

(c) God then formed Lilith, the first woman, just as He had formed Adam, except that He used filth and sediment instead of pure dust. From Adam's union with this demoness, and with another like her named Naamah, Tubal Cain's sister, sprang Asmodeus and innumerable demons that still plague mankind. Many generations later, Lilith and Naamah came to Solomon's judgement seat, disguised as harlots of Jerusalem'. [4]

(d) Adam and Lilith never found peace together; for when he wished to lie with her, she took offence at the recumbent posture he demanded. 'Why must I lie beneath you?' she asked. 'I also was made from dust, and am therefore your equal.' Because Adam tried to compel her obedience by force, Lilith, in a rage, uttered the magic name of God, rose into the air and left him.

Adam complained to God: 'I have been deserted by my helpmeet' God at once sent the angels Senoy, Sansenoy and Semangelof to fetch Lilith back. They found her beside the Red Sea, a region abounding in lascivious demons, to whom she bore lilim at the rate of more than one hundred a day. 'Return to Adam without delay,' the angels said, `or we will drown you!' Lilith asked: `How can I return to Adam and live like an honest housewife, after my stay beside the Red Sea?? 'It will be death to refuse!' they answered. `How can I die,' Lilith asked again, `when God has ordered me to take charge of all newborn children: boys up to the eighth day of life, that of circumcision; girls up to the twentieth day. None the less, if ever I see your three names or likenesses displayed in an amulet above a newborn child, I promise to spare it.' To this they agreed; but God punished Lilith by making one hundred of her demon children perish daily; [5] and if she could not destroy a human infant, because of the angelic amulet, she would spitefully turn against her own. [6]

(e) Some say that Lilith ruled as queen in Zmargad, and again in Sheba; and was the demoness who destroyed job's sons. [7] Yet she escaped the curse of death which overtook Adam, since they had parted long before the Fall. Lilith and Naamah not only strangle infants but also seduce dreaming men, any one of whom, sleeping alone, may become their victim. [8]

(f) Undismayed by His failure to give Adam a suitable helpmeet, God tried again, and let him watch while he built up a woman's anatomy: using bones, tissues, muscles, blood and glandular secretions, then covering the whole with skin and adding tufts of hair in places. The sight caused Adam such disgust that even when this woman, the First Eve, stood there in her full beauty, he felt an invincible repugnance. God knew that He had failed once more, and took the First Eve away. Where she went, nobody knows for certain. [9]

(g) God tried a third time, and acted more circumspectly. Having taken a rib from Adam's side in his sleep, He formed it into a woman; then plaited her hair and adorned her, like a bride, with twenty-four pieces of jewellery, before waking him. Adam was entranced. [10]

(h) Some say that God created Eve not from Adam's rib, but from a tail ending in a sting which had been part of his body. God cut this off, and the stump-now a useless coccyx-is still carried by Adam's descendants. [11]

(i) Others say that God's original thought had been to create two human beings, male and female; but instead He designed a single one with a male face looking forward, and a female face looking back. Again He changed His mind, removed Adam's backward-looking face, and built a woman's body for it. [12]

(j) Still others hold that Adam was originally created as an androgyne of male and female bodies joined back to back. Since this posture made locomotion difficult, and conversation awkward, God divided the androgyne and gave each half a new rear. These separate beings He placed in Eden, forbidding them to couple. [13]

Notes on sources:

1. Genesis II. 18-25; III. 20.

2. Genesis I. 26-28.

3. Gen. Rab. 17.4; B. Yebamot 632.

4. Yalqut Reubeni ad. Gen. II. 21; IV. 8.

5. Alpha Beta diBen Sira, 47; Gaster, MGWJ, 29 (1880), 553 ff.

6. Num. Rab. 16.25.

7. Targum ad job 1. 15.

8. B. Shabbat 151b; Ginzberg, LJ, V. 147-48.

9. Gen. Rab. 158, 163-64; Mid. Abkir 133, 135; Abot diR. Nathan 24; B. Sanhedrin 39a.

10. Gen. II. 21-22; Gen. Rab. 161.

11. Gen. Rab. 134; B. Erubin 18a.

12. B. Erubin 18a.

13. Gen. Rab. 55; Lev. Rab. 14.1: Abot diR. Nathan 1.8; B. Berakhot 61a; B. Erubin 18a; Tanhuma Tazri'a 1; Yalchut Gen. 20; Tanh. Buber iii.33; Mid. Tehillim 139, 529.

Authors’ Comments on the Myth:

1. The tradition that man's first sexual intercourse was with animals, not women, may be due to the widely spread practice of bestiality among herdsmen of the Middle East, which is still condoned by custom, although figuring three times in the Pentateuch as a capital crime. In the Akkadian Gilgamesh Epic, Enkidu is said to have lived with gazelles and jostled other wild beasts at the watering place, until civilized by Aruru's priestess. Having enjoyed her embraces for six days and seven nights, he wished to rejoin the wild beasts but, to his surprise, they fled from him. Enkidu then knew that he had gained understanding, and the priestess said: 'Thou art wise, Enkidu, like unto a godl'

2. Primeval man was held by the Babylonians to have been androgynous. Thus the Gilgamesh Epic gives Enkidu androgynous features: `the hair of his head like a woman's, with locks that sprout like those of Nisaba, the Grain-goddess.' The Hebrew tradition evidently derives from Greek sources, because both terms used in a Tannaitic midrash to describe the bisexual Adam are Greek: androgynos, 'man-woman', and diprosopon, 'twofaced'. Philo of Alexandria, the Hellenistic philosopher and commentator on the Bible, contemporary with Jesus, held that man was at first bisexual; so did the Gnostics. This belief is clearly borrowed from Plato. Yet the myth of two bodies placed back to back may well have been founded on observation of Siamese twins, which are sometimes joined in this awkward manner. The two-faced Adam appears to be a fancy derived from coins or statues of Janus, the Roman New Year god.

3. Divergences between the Creation myths of Genesis r and n, which allow Lilith to be presumed as Adam's first mate, result from a careless weaving together of an early Judaean and a late priestly tradition. The older version contains the rib incident. Lilith typifies the Anath-worshipping Canaanite women, who were permitted pre-nuptial promiscuity. Time after time the prophets denounced Israelite women for following Canaanite practices; at first, apparently, with the priests' approval-since their habit of dedicating to God the fees thus earned is expressly forbidden in Deuteronomy xxIII. I8. Lilith's flight to the Red Sea recalls the ancient Hebrew view that water attracts demons. 'Tortured and rebellious demons' also found safe harbourage in Egypt. Thus Asmodeus, who had strangled Sarah's first six husbands, fled 'to the uttermost parts of Egypt' (Tobit viii. 3), when Tobias burned the heart and liver of a fish on their wedding night.

4. Lilith's bargain with the angels has its ritual counterpart in an apotropaic rite once performed in many Jewish communities. To protect the newborn child against Lilith-and especially a male, until he could be permanently safeguarded by circumcision-a ring was drawn with natron, or charcoal, on the wall of the birthroom, and inside it were written the words: 'Adam and Eve. Out, Lilith!' Also the names Senoy, Sansenoy and Semangelof (meanings uncertain) were inscribed on the door. If Lilith nevertheless succeeded in approaching the child and fondling him, he would laugh in his sleep. To avert danger, it was held wise to strike the sleeping child's lips with one finger-whereupon Lilith would vanish.

5. 'Lilith' is usually derived from the Babylonian-Assyrian word lilitu, ,a female demon, or wind-spirit'-one of a triad mentioned in Babylonian spells. But she appears earlier as 'Lillake' on a 2000 B.G. Sumerian tablet from Ur containing the tale of Gilgamesh and the Willow Tree. There she is a demoness dwelling in the trunk of a willow-tree tended by the Goddess Inanna (Anath) on the banks of the Euphrates. Popular Hebrew etymology seems to have derived 'Lilith' from layil, 'night'; and she therefore often appears as a hairy night-monster, as she also does in Arabian folklore. Solomon suspected the Queen of Sheba of being Lilith, because she had hairy legs. His judgement on the two harlots is recorded in I Kings III. 16 ff. According to Isaiah xxxiv. I4-I5, Lilith dwells among the desolate ruins in the Edomite Desert where satyrs (se'ir), reems, pelicans, owls, jackals, ostriches, arrow-snakes and kites keep her company.

6. Lilith's children are called lilim. In the Targum Yerushalmi, the priestly blessing of Numbers vi. 26 becomes: 'The Lord bless thee in all thy doings, and preserve thee from the Lilim!' The fourth-century A.D. commentator Hieronymus identified Lilith with the Greek Lamia, a Libyan queen deserted by Zeus, whom his wife Hera robbed of her children. She took revenge by robbing other women of theirs.

7. The Lamiae, who seduced sleeping men, sucked their blood and ate their flesh, as Lilith and her fellow-demonesses did, were also known as Empusae, 'forcers-in'; or Mormolyceia, 'frightening wolves'; and described as 'Children of Hecate'. A Hellenistic relief shows a naked Lamia straddling a traveller asleep on his back. It is characteristic of civilizations where women are treated as chattels that they must adopt the recumbent posture during intercourse, which Lilith refused. That Greek witches who worshipped Hecate favoured the superior posture, we know from Apuleius; and it occurs in early Sumerian representations of the sexual act, though not in the Hittite. Malinowski writes that Melanesian girls ridicule what they call `the missionary position', which demands that they should lie passive and recumbent.

8. Naamah, 'pleasant', is explained as meaning that 'the demoness sang pleasant songs to idols'. Zmargad suggest smaragdos, the semi-precious aquamarine; and may therefore be her submarine dwelling. A demon named Smaragos occurs in the Homeric Epigrams.

9. Eve's creation by God from Adam's rib-a myth establishing male supremacy and disguising Eve's divinity-lacks parallels in Mediterranean or early Middle-Eastern myth. The story perhaps derives iconotropically from an ancient relief, or painting, which showed the naked Goddess Anath poised in the air, watching her lover Mot murder his twin Aliyan; Mot (mistaken by the mythographer for Yahweh) was driving a curved dagger under Aliyan's fifth rib, not removing a sixth one. The familiar story is helped by a hidden pun on tsela, the Hebrew for 'rib': Eve, though designed to be Adam's helpmeet, proved to be a tsela, a 'stumbling', or 'misfortune'. Eve's formation from Adam's tail is an even more damaging myth; perhaps suggested by the birth of a child with a vestigial tail instead of a coccyx-a not infrequent occurrence.

10. The story of Lilith's escape to the East and of Adam's subsequent marriage to Eve may, however, record an early historical incident: nomad herdsmen, admitted into Lilith's Canaanite queendom as guests (see 16. 1), suddenly seize power and, when the royal household thereupon flees, occupy a second queendom which owes allegiance to the Hittite Goddess Heba.

The meaning of 'Eve' is disputed. Hawwah is explained in Genesis III. 20 as 'mother of all living'; but this may well be a Hebraicized form of the divine name Heba, Hebat, Khebat or Khiba. This goddess, wife of the Hittite Storm-god, is shown riding a lion in a rock-sculpture at Hattusaswhich equates her with Anath-and appears as a form of Ishtar in Hurrian texts. She was worshipped at Jerusalem (see 27. 6). Her Greek name was Hebe, Heracles's goddess-wife.

[diavolosthots]

Obey me boys reaction to a MC who is pissed at God. Like why the FUCK did that bitch make us this way!?!?!? WERE HORRIBLE! AND SOME BY CHOICE!

I'm not pissed at God per se, but I do think humanity is trash.

Warning: mentions of religion

THE BROTHERS reacting to MC who’s pissed off at God 

Lucifer:

At first, he found it quite amusing. As much as he doesn’t say it, he truly does think humans were a mistake on some level, at least a good chunk of them. Really, they might as well be demons at this point. However, after a while, he truly got tired of it and it’s just annoying. Yes, he’s furious with his father, but for good reason; you just don’t like him because you think humanity sucks. Please drop it MC, and find a different hobby. 

Mammon:

He finds humor in it. Personally, he doesn’t want to talk about his own experiences with the guy, but he would love to hear more of yours and boy would he love to record it so he can listen to it again later. May actually be genuinely interested in why you’re saying this, but he’ll agree that humans suck. Well, except for one: you. 

Leviathan:

In all honesty, this makes him super uncomfortable. His father is a part of his life that he would rather forget so having someone constantly shit on the guy is less amusing and more tense to him. He’ll definitely steer the conversation into a different direction, or maybe block you out completely. Don’t think of mentioning Jesus or Noah or any of the other guys either; the Bible is the biggest scam to him and God already had sons, sons he gave up for a pathetic dream. Thanks but no thanks. 

Satan:

Although he doesn’t have much of a relationship with the guy, he feels his brothers’ anger toward the man upstairs and thus just dislikes him by default. He thinks it’s cute when humans also realize what a douche the man upstairs is and if anything, he thinks that humans are finally waking up and seeing the real world. Not all, but some. Just don’t do it 24/7 and he’s cool with it. Also… don’t scream it… he likes to keep his peace. 

Asmodeus:

He’s kind of indifferent about it because as long as you realized that the brothers, mainly him though, were beautiful angels he doesn’t really care lol. His father is indeed a… difficult being, but why worry about him and your species when you could just focus on him and yourself? Don’t worry about the details MC, just stick with Asmodeus and you won’t run out of fun things to do! Be mad at God later, right now he needs your eyes on him. 

Beelzebub:

Much like Leviathan, he actually just feels really uncomfortable. Yes, he has beef with the guy, but no, he won’t be fighting him again. He already lost one sibling, the last thing he wants is to lose you, too. Will suggest just getting your mind off of it and besides, if humans weren’t a thing, you wouldn’t be with him, right? So something good did come out of your species and he’s lucky enough to call it his :) 

Belphegor:

Oh he’s angry too, but for different reasons. He’s not so mad anymore at humans as a whole, mainly thanks to you, but he does still hold a certain disgust toward humans. Some are better than others, like you, and he understands why Lilith fell for one. Still, his grudge won’t suddenly disappear and he finds himself chiming into your venting from time to time, although it mainly just puts him to sleep as he dreams about burning the world alive and keeping you with him in the Devildom; everyone else is unimportant

[needyounow-love]

What do you think the brothers reactions would be to MC having a protective child? Kinda like "You threatened my parent, what makes you think you deserve them?"

How the brothers would react to MC having a protective child

Lucifer 

Both Lucifer and the child would scowl at each other the first time they meet, although Lucifer wouldn’t do that on purpose but because he has a natural bitch face

He would get so frustrated at how much the child seems to not like him 

But he will find amusing how the kid seems to not be scared of him at all

Winning your child’s approval will become a goal of his

You never have seen Lucifer trying to smile as much as he was smiling around your kid

Might slack off his work or just let the little guy/girl hang around him while he’s working. When that happens, you can clearly see Lucifer getting slightly annoyed every time they ask him what Lucifer is working on but still explaining patiently what he’s doing

Both the kid and Luci would end up respecting each other and the child might even start admiring him for being so hardworking

Mammon

The child has nothing to hold against Mammon

But that doesn’t mean that they won’t be protective of you: they will still not trust him

Also, Mammon, being a big tsundere, will act like he’s not affected by how much the child seems to dislike him while trying to gain their trust

It would start with him taking your child around when you are occupied and taking them on his shoulders like a good papa PAPA MAMMON

The first time the child calls him papa he actually cries

He’s actually the one who will have the strongest bond with your child beetween all his brothers

Leviathan

The first time they meet Levi was already panicking, but what he didn’t expect was what the child said to him 

“I know that you tried to attack and eat my mommy/daddy. I don’t like you”

Levi will actually isolate himself for some time after that and, when you went to drag him out of his room, he actually came out on his own, determined to gain your kid’s trust

At first, his tentatives didn’t work...It didn’t matter how much times he tried to talk with your little guy/girl, they always scowled at him

But if there’s one thing that Levi can be, that’s being stubborn

Until one day you hear your kid yelling from Levi’s room

And when you run there to see what’s going on you see both your boyfriend and them screaming at each other as they fight to win a Devil Chart’s match

Satan

Satan isn’t exactly surprised that the kid is wary of him and it’s not like he adores children...He consider them worse than devils most times

But this child is still yours so he doesn’t want them to hate him

He might start reading stories to them to help them fall asleep

And everything seems to go well and them both to get along

Until one day you hear some of the stories he was reading to your kid

And let’s say...well, at least he was trying and the child looked amused instead of scared

Surprisingly, both the child and Satan would have numerous very clever conversations and become friends in the end 

Your child might start talking with old difficult words after being around Satan for a while

Asmodeus

Asmo would be surprised by the fact that the child doesn’t like him...like, c’mon...EVERYONE LIKES ASMO

“I’m not surprised that my charm doesn’t affect them just like it doesn’t affect you, MC. But why do they hate me so much?”

Asmodeous would actually feel very sad about it because he’s not used to being disliked

But that won’t stop him from trying to charm the kid into liking him and accepting him as your boyfriend

Asmo would probably buy some new clothes for your kid and, with your help, he would try to spend some time with them so that they can get used to him

Until your child actually starts being enthusiast about spending time with both you and Asmo

Beelzebub

The first thing he would think is “Who’s this little guy/girl? They kinda look like a chihuahua”

Beel would try to make them like him by giving them food

And he would get hella sad when the child call him out for blowing out the kitchen, risking to hurt you

But Beelzebub is a softie and will do anything to get on your child’s good side

It won’t take a lot for your child to get used to Beel thought

Because Beel will quickly demonstrate to them how much he cares about you and how willing he is to protect you from other demons

Belphegor

“Oh? MC you didn’t tell me you had a gremlin.”

At first, the child hates him so he will just accept it because he knows that he deserves it

That wouldn’t stop him from being a brat and calling them a gremlin

At the same time, Belphegor would secretly buy some fluffy and soft toys for them

You would be the one to give the gifts to your child because Belphie wouldn’t want to push his luck too much

Until...one day you can’t find the kid so you run into Belphie’s room to ask for help only to find your son/daughter hugging one of the demon’s gifts and your boyfriend hugging them close to him

---

Masterlists

[mittensmorgul]

Hi! Not trying to be difficult, but I saw that you like Rowena/Samwhich. I see a lot of fandom likes her - I personally can not get over her casual murdering if people (like service workers) from many season ago. know there's a similar dislike of Ketch for his murdering and am wondering what's up with the adoration? People liked her before the redemption arc so I'm wondering how much forgiveness she gets/got from people just because she was a 'badass' woman. Or the arc is what swayed you/people.

Hi there! I’ll start by saying that I’ve always liked Rowena because she’s a good character, not because she was a good person, you know? Like Metatron, she was an amazing villain. She was fun to root against, which is what you want in a good villain. But I’d venture to say that her redemption arc began even before we met her. Crowley had mentioned her twice before that, as a witch who taught him a few tricks, and wasn’t a good parental role model for him. And the show began redeeming her just a bit from even her first few appearances.

Sure, she didn’t start rescuing puppies and reading to coma patients in her spare time, but we did begin learning about her and her life. Not all the people she killed from the start were just casually murdered, you know? Her actual goal had been murdering the demons running the Raul’s Girls brothel scam. If she happened to kill a few of the girls herself, well then... at least her objective was met already.

And if that’s all your objecting to about her character, then I invite you to look at Crowley, who we know has casually killed all sorts of people, and yet... had a redemption arc from his first appearance on the show, too. I invite you to look honestly at Sam and Dean and all the people (yes, and monsters, but also innocents who died because of their doing), and tell me that makes them unforgivable and irredeemable, as well.

But the show has spent the last 5+ years actively writing her a redemption arc. Not a shoehorned “oh didn’t you hear, I’m a good guy now” literally attempting to handwave everything bad from the past by lampshading it with a “fake identical twin” story. Which... is what they’ve done with Ketch. At this point, after having been physically present in something like 33 episodes, and at least mentioned or on the phone helping Sam and Dean and Cas in several more, she officially has the longest, most consistent and persistent character growth and redemption arc in the history of Supernatural, other than Cas (if you even think of Cas as a character who needed “redemption” in the first place).

The first four episodes Ketch was in, we didn’t even see his face. He was set up as the Boogeyman of the BMoL, who even the agents we did see on screen as cold (they tortured SAM! and felt justified about it the entire time!) were scared of him. He was the Last Resort, he was the Executioner brought in to “solve problems” for them. Cold, calculated, efficient. And they set him as a spy on the Winchesters. He remained unrepentant through his brainwashing of Mary, assuring her she’d feel better once she had no pesky will of her own to resist the orders he set for her to kill, and genuinely drew pleasure from torturing and killing people and monsters. Even people who were supposedly his friends, even Mary he’d had what passes for a romantic encounter with. Then after his miraculous resurrection, we learned of his history with Rowena and how he GOT her charm in the first place-- implied that he tortured her to death and then witnessed her charm kick in and resurrect her.

And folks, that’s exactly the story of Rowena’s ENTIRE LIFE. Tortured for fun and then abandoned as disposable when they’d used her for what she could give them by people she’d sought protection and shelter from. She’d spent the last 300 years bargaining for her own life and safety by trading her body and her magic-- cast out by everyone from Crowley’s father to the Grand Coven to the Loughlin witches from 12.11, and EVEN BY SAM at the end of s10, when he had her literally chained to a table to force her to cast the spell to cure the Mark.

Then even after Ketch’s return, he’s remorselessly torturing and killing his way through a string of witches trying to find Rowena to make him another resurrection charm. When the Winchesters trap him, he lies and lies until he can’t keep it up any longer, and then we discover he’s actually now employed by Asmodeus, who’s ordered him to keep tabs on the Winchesters, in the episode where Asmo literally captures Cas, locks him in a cell, and then convinces Dean that Cas got away by impersonating his voice on the phone. Ketch... was part of all of this. Until he discovered Asmo’s secret power source and decided to disarm the demon... I don’t think Ketch brought Gabriel to them out of the goodness of his heart. He even told Dean that he saw a chance to escape retribution from Asmodeus in the AU, so he took it. It took him going to an alternate universe and fighting for the resistance forces there for us to even begin to think they could consider giving him a redemption arc. And he only had one on-screen appearance in s14, via a video call after sending the One Thing They Needed To Stop Michael via postal mail and having it delayed arriving to them as a result... but hey, at least he was trying to be helpful, right? >.>

They repeatedly lampshaded that he’s continued to do his Hired Gun thing, basically Supernatural Being murder for hire. He took a contract on Belphegor’s life, for example. So other than the fact he’s been occasionally helpful to TFW, and the fact he’s stopped actively trying to kill them, they haven’t actually written him any sort of redemption arc to speak of.

Unlike Rowena. We’ve delved into her history, heard in her own words why she became what she was when we first met her, and not only why she abandoned Crowley as a child but also seen her genuine grief and torment after his death-- after having lost any chance to ever try to seek his forgiveness or truly have a relationship with her son. And honestly, we have seen both Sam and Dean go to those sorts of lengths to get each other back, you know? Rowena’s actions in 13.19... are exactly the sorts of things we saw Sam doing in early s10... literally in the episode Rowena was introduced.

So I invite you to consider... if you forgive Sam for that or drinking demon blood or releasing Lucifer, if you forgive Dean for selling his own soul to save Sam or taking on the Mark of Cain and all that led to, if you forgive Cas for basically all of s6 or saying yes to Lucifer in s11... then... you should probably consider taking another look at the entirety of Rowena’s arc and see if you can’t see how they’ve written her the same redemption beats and more.

She’s helped the Winchesters, even when held against her will that first time, even when Sam demanded she kill the one person she’d ever let herself truly love in order to save Dean from the Mark. But since then she’s helped them of her own free will, gradually going from doing it as a quid pro quo to doing it because she was genuinely beginning to care about them going all the way back to 12.11. She ran afoul of Lucifer-- which experience still tortures and terrifies her to this day-- because of the Winchesters. And in return, Sam especially has grown to show her trust and care as well. He gave her the page from the spell book she wanted to protect herself and trusted she wouldn’t use that against him. Then we learned their fates were intertwined-- Sam destined to kill her. But instead, they mutually chose to try and save her. I mean... that’s been the foundation of her arc for the last 3 seasons. And to reject that character growth, you have to bend over backward and ignore the fact that in their lives, Sam and Dean and Cas have done just as terrible or worse. It’s only a wee bit hypocritical to dismiss her honest development into someone Sam and Dean both think of as at least Winchester-adjacent if not part of the extended family at this point. The story’s been working overtime to bring her to that point where she now actively CHOOSES to care for them, even at her own peril.

She literally did exactly what Dean did in 13.23, saying yes to Michael because he promised he would spare the people she cared about. She literally has sacrificed herself for them out of love. So... tell me, what would it take for you to get past what she was when we first met her? Because everyone in-story got past that years ago.

[clawsofpropinquity]

“ "Hail! Hail! Hail!" Asmodeus, the mightiest of all the worlds' politicians, is in many respects their opposite: though he is publicly an elitist, he is, in his heart of hearts, a populist. In all nine planets of the Hell-Heaven of Baator, everybody wants the same things: to obey the powerful, and to supplant them; to sublimate, through the systems of honor and respect, mutual contempt into mutual comradeship; to rebel without changing the beautiful system a whit. Everyone along the ladder aspires, ultimately, to the top rung, and in doing so, they cannot but help but identify with the one who does. He lives their dream for them; alone bears the burden of being the State in its actuality rather than aspiration. And so every devil who wears her Asmodeus lapel - and every devil wears her Asmodeus lapel - does so willingly, out of love, not because her peers will carry her into some dark room and extract confessions of all sorts of things from her if she does not. And devil who carries her line-crossing peers into dark rooms to extract confessions does so out of love - for the system of which she is a part as much as her love of her superiors themselves - and not because her only aspiration is Up and the only way Up is through ever-more fanatic and creative combinations of betrayal and loyalty. And the Screwtapian bureaucrat who rewards such audacity does so out of love - love for the subordinate's dedication to their mutual values - and not as an expression of purely vulgar cronyism, status-seeking, or fear. Every soul that comes to Baator does so out of choice, because they loved honor and are willing to fight for the recognition of it. And everyone soul that flies to not-Baator does so out of choice - because they have no honor, and are willing (in their heart of hearts) to relinquish it. Those who follow Baatazú merely complete the Universe's will in this respect. the Inseverable Manacles of Adamant To the dismay of both their competitors and themselves, the Baatazu - those who follow Baatazú, whatever their plane of origin - have acquired a reputation as scrupulously contract-waving merchants, requisite signatories of all pecuniary agreements, and brokers of first resort. Nothing could be further from the truth - the Baatazu are a warrior elite at heart, and if they have found commercial success, it isn't because of an aptitude for buying low and selling high, but because of their battle-hardened combination of extreme trustworthiness and lack of trust in all others. A Baatazu, when she lowers herself to business dealings at all, does so not out of the opportunity for mutual self-interest but out of the opportunity for mutual oath-making - oaths that can then be enforced. Baatazú is a system of honor. Moreover, it is a system of honor about systems of honor, and how we keep them. Because this is a cosmopolitan warrior elite that is widely-travelled- plane to planet to plane, dealing and conquering and punishing - the substantive systems of honor that are acceptable can vary quite a bit. Homosexuality may be forbidden here while a prerequisite there. Elders may have the highest station here but relegated to irrelevance there. But there are universals: there must be a hierarchy to the world, for without hierarchy, we are unmoored. There may be limits to how high one can reach in one lifetime, but one must always be able to fall by insufficient adherence to honor. Among the elite, there must always be formalized and approved methods - of whatever physical or mental intensity - for resolving who is the superior and who is the inferior. Lying is always wrong. Pleasure is not wrong, if one is experiencing pleasures that are limited to one's social station, but enjoying what any old person can enjoy is inherently debasing. Those who do not adhere must be punished. The greatest punishment of all is those who only pursue pleasure without reference at all to how one appears in the eyes of one's superiors and inferiors, and this is why the Baatazu hate the demons most of all. The existence and acknowledgement of these various systems of honor among the Baatazu does not mean that they do not squabble over them. They acknowledge that the systems are, to an extent, arbitrary, but they also acknowledge that the holy wars over them are purifying, and that struggle is an integral part of existence. When we struggle for station, we doubly improve ourselves if we do it out of our devotion to honor. And so they fight battles amongst themselves - simultaneously brutal and gentlemanly - and against the rest of the world. The rest of the world is evil. The rest of the world is starving, crying out, impoverished for punishment, and the philanthropic devils are not so cold-hearted that they are willing to ignore it. With their business wing they are able to afford the latest and greatest weaponry; with their primary wing, they have the best-trained and most fanatical warriors. When they lose, it is because they fought fairly and squarely while their opponents did not. Even with their treachery, the decadent demons routinely fail to beat the disciplined devils with forces of one hundred to one. A Brief Interlude There is a joke on Bytopia about the devils. Like all Bytopian jokes, it is didactic and not terribly funny. "Who is the revolutionary vanguard on Baator?" "Those who merely wish to wipe out all life on wicked planets, as opposed to those who wish to wipe out all life on wicked planets and encase the souls of the dead beneath miles of molten glass." Activity on the Primes And indeed, the Baatazu so often fight such lopsided battles because they seek them out. One of the many dirty secrets of the devilish militaries is that their logistics are so bad - in spite of all the training, funding, and competence - because no war-band wants any of its peers poaching its quarries, with the sweet, sweet reputation that can be one over their scattered corpses. It is said that the practice, on many Prime Material Planes, of going into dank sewers and caves purely to kill things that are difficult to kill arose from Baator-sewn memes. But no matter the consequences: whether spreading memes, making a dollar and a cent, or just butchering unbelievers, Baator never sends more of its sons and daughters on a mission than is completely necessary. Even if not for honor, there are simply too many missions. Influence from Bytopia, Celestia, the Abyss, Ysgard et cetera must be found and wiped out. Extremely honorable individuals must be found and recruited. Right-wing political movements must be established and led to victory. The souls-for-dark-powers markets must be corned and cleared. Execution quotas must be reached. There are even devilish anthropologists who have made it their calling to record all the systems of honor throughout all the worlds! And, lest we forget, the plans of competing devilish hierarchs must be foiled. There is an element of pragmatism among the Baatazu, and they have turned weaknesses into strength. Their extreme intercompetitiveness has been castrated from them, or sublimated into useful form, among the Primes-taking teams, for they are promoted or executed together. The common practice of taking more and more impractical oaths in order to one-up one's comrades has been channeled into a practice of oathing away from their primary duties, so that the team functions as an organic, efficient hyperinterdependent unit. Teams are always assembled for their optimal mix of skills, and sometimes they are chosen from devils who hate each other specifically to accentuate these competitive-cooperative instincts. Sometimes hierarchs will merge star subordinates into teams together the way that ruling families on many Primes will join their children together in marriage, to cement alliances. If the resulting band of brothers ends up with secret agendas thrown upon each, well, that's just the cost of friendship. Two Sacred Rituals Do the Baatazu have any culture? Surely! Beyond the particular baroque kowtowing and subervience rituals that any particular functionary may require, there are two broad classes of ritual that the whole Baator system acknowledges as particularly important. The first is the practice of Psychopompic Deliberation, taken up when military resources have been found to be scandalously idle. In this particular sort of Prime-based mission, the hunters must find the most vyle and wickede member of a whole planet and kill her. Then, the soul is followed to its destination, against which terrible Hell a general crusade is declared. The second is the auto-da-fe, the Baatazú way of suicide. One who has broken honor has broken honor, and whoever kills one who has broken honor acquires it. So the citizen's justice in dark rooms. But so also the self-denunciations and public self-immolations, for all true devils will take what scraps of honor they can. What does it matter that they will not be around to enjoy it? Such concerns do not sway the hero-devil who rushes swinging into certain death, and they do not dissuade most of those who have sullied themselves, if they know that they cannot hide their shame. The really rich among them accompany their suicides with lavish parties, commissioning poets to write their self-denunciations. “

[salmonthestoryteller]

Royal Negotiations

A Shadowhunters Fanfic Set between 2x18 & 2x19

Magnus went alone.  Despite what his Alexander thought the choice wasn't about him lying about the soul sword. Despite what Lucian and Raphael thought, the choice wasn't about his broken heart. Going to the Seelie Queen was about survival.

Lucian and Raphael balked at the idea of depending on the Seelie Court because they were both painfully young.  They had grown up in a time when mundanes no longer played the games the Seelie Queen did.  Vampires and Werewolves had their own hierarchy and traditions.  Warlocks, though?

Most Warlocks had grown up in times when courting favor with royalty was common. When the wrong game meant life or death or heartbreak.  They would be able to teach the younger ones how to play the games.  How to court favor and make deals.  They would have learned anyway - if they survived long enough.  Because among the demons that they all shared blood with was a similar culture. Greater Demons.  Princes of Hell. It bled into all aspects of Warlock culture, even in the present day.

He had also known that it would be a harder deal for him than another representative. Maybe he should have sent someone else to the Seelie Queen.  Someone with no title of their own - someone who didn't have the power to stop Valentine with… other methods.

"Your Majesty."

"Magnus Banes. I'm most curious who you are approaching me as." The Seelie Queen did not rise from her throne.  "The High Warlock of Brooklyn? Or the Crown Prince of Edom?"

He'd known that was coming, and he managed not to flinch at her mocking. "The High Warlock, m'lady.  I wish to discuss the terms of protection of my warlocks and I."

"Of course.  The rose has not yet wilted, so my offer of protection still stands."

"Indeed.  However, should Valentine raise the angel and we are forced to seek refuge in your realm… in what manner will we be welcomed?"

"Whatever do you mean, High Warlock?"

"Will my warlocks be… your subjects?"

"Are you suggesting that would be a bad thing?" The Seelie Queen's voice hardened.

"Not at all, your Majesty. To serve one such as yourself can only be seen as an honor.  However, many Downworlders are young.  They do not understand the fine details of courtly behavior.  I fear some may… misstep should they attempt to learn the ways of your court overnight."

"You make a fair point." She ceded. "The mortal realm has grown so lax. They do not understand proper behavior.  They aren't born royalty like the two of us are."

She was certainly twisting that knife today, wasn't she? "Then you see my dilemma."

"Fear not, High Warlock. Downworlders seeking refuge shall be welcomed as loyal guests.  Therefore allowing for… some missteps."

"That is most gracious of you."

"Should any wish to join my court at a later time, though, I am sure we will all be amenable."

What a damn loophole that was.  The Seelie knew how to coerce a wish better than any. "Should any have such an honest desire in their heart, I would not stop them from seeking it."

The Seelie Queen's smile was predatory.  "You are all about following the desires in your heart, are you not, High Warlock?"

Tread carefully now, Magnus.  "In most cases, Your Majesty."

"I was saddened by your most recent broken relationship.  It promised to be such a romantic story. The Shadow World's own Romeo and Juliet."

"Romeo and Juliet were of the Shadow World." Magnus reminded her.

"Ah, true.  But even their story might be said to pale to a romance between a Prince of Edom and a Nephilim.  I suppose spending eternity apart is better than death by poison and dagger in the end, though.  Is it not?"

Right now, Magnus was wondering if the poison or dagger weren't better, but held his tongue. "If that settles the terms, Your Majesty, perhaps I should speak to my fellow Downworlders."

"A moment, Prince of Edom.  The terms are not yet settled."

Magnus felt his heart sink, especially with her mocking use of a demonic title he truly had no claim on. Any claim he might have once had he'd given up when he banished his father centuries ago.  Still, he'd suspected that his ties to Asmodeus would cause her to make more demands.  "I see. Was there more you required?"

"I must admit to being curious why you of all Downworlders would ask of me this favor."

"For the safety of my fellow warlocks."

"And yet you do not need this court to save them, Prince of Edom.  Valentine may be cunning, but in the end he is but one Nephilim. Certainly no match for your father, should you request his aid."

Magnus felt his skin crawl at the mention of his father, and the Seelie Queen's sharp smile did little to aid his growing unease.  "It merely seems to me, Your Majesty, that allowing a Greater Demon loose to stop one Nephilim is a tad… excessive."

"More excessive than asking your Warlocks to seek refuge with my people while a madman destroys the rest of the Downworld?"

"In my father's case, we would merely be trading one source of destruction for another."

"I suppose he may still be upset about being banished to Edom by his son." The Seelie Queen seemed to contemplate the idea as if it were a fascinating possibility. "However, you always were your father's favorite child, Magnus Bane.  To have you by his side may be worth the death of one Nephilim."

He'd thought about it - of course he had. The possibility of asking his father's aid. Just what he may ask in return.  Was saving the entire Downworld not worth his own eternal life spent miserable in Edom? Angry Asmodeus might be, but stopping the angel from rising would be in the bastard's own best interest.  Yet, here he was, asking the Seelie Queen's favor instead.

"Oh!" The Seelie Queen clapped her hands. "I see!  Even now you are optimistic about your romance with the Nephilim."

"What does Alexander have to do with anything?" Magnus gave a hard smile of his own.

"Your Shadowhunter lover may forgive a deal with me.  But not with a Prince of Hell."

"You might be surprised. Alexander is a progressive thinker." Magnus offered, even as his mind whirled.

Was it true? Was that why he was set on this path?  Was he so selfish as to place his own life above the entire Downworld? Should he be summoning his father instead?

The Seelie Queen's laugh sounded through the grove, and she stood to approach him. "Do not look so disquiet, Little Prince of Edom.  We are royalty.  Selfishness becomes us." She circled him, slowly. A predator who smelled blood.  "That is why, for me to aid you and yours, I must ask you not interfere with any other games I may have afoot."

"An eternity without games between us? Surely that would be boring." Magnus countered.  "Shall we say instead that, during the hunt for Valentine, I shall be far too busy to concern myself with other games?"

"And after?"

"Come now, Your Majesty.  We are immortal. What would our lives be without games?"

"Truer words could not be chosen.  Very well, I find that an acceptable term." She continued to circle him.  "Now, as for these council meetings, being under my protection means I and I alone speak for the Downworld.  I have no doubt your jilted lover shall attempt to speak to you directly.  You are to hold your tongue on matters involving Shadowhunters and Downworlders.  I have full say over what is and is not acceptable between us and the Clave so long as you and yours are under my protection. After all, the only way to protect you all properly is to be in complete control of the situation."

She stopped in front of him, her smile amused and her eyes triumphant.  "What say you, Magnus Banes?  Are my terms acceptable?"

"You are most thorough, Your Majesty." Oh, how the next meeting would suck.  He could practically feel Alexander's eyes on him directly, as if he was to blame for it all. He wouldn't be completely wrong to think so, either.  Still, most of the terms affected him more than Lucian or Raphael.  She was asking he tie his hands - but she wasn't asking the same of them. He could only hope they would be up to the task of battling whatever other games she had going.

"I am a Queen, Little Prince.  I must be thorough."

"I find your terms acceptable."

She reached up a hand to caress his face, and it took a lot of willpower not to yank away. "I do so enjoy negotiating with you.  I shall see you at the next council meeting.  Be sure to stay close to my side. Dismissed."

"Your Majesty." Magnus bowed, and retreated from the grove.  Even as he downed a drink in his apartment a few moments later, the sour taste of defeat remained.

Fini

As always, I tend to be late getting into a show. I couldn't help but think, watching the end of season 2, that Warlock culture in Shadowhunters is closer to Seelie than Werewolf or Vampire.  Werewolf and Vampire culture seem to follow survival of the fittest rules, with packs/clans that you can both join and split from, and who settle disagreement through fighting. Whereas Warlock culture, like Seelie, seems more court and intrigue based.  It got me thinking that, especially with so many warlocks being old enough to have been raised during times when Monarchies were common, it made sense why Magnus would choose to side with the Seelie Queen.  The transition for warlocks into such a culture wouldn't be as difficult, if it came to that.

I also think the Seelie Queen would have definitely made a point of who Magnus's father was and that he could actually ask for his help to stop Valentine. (Azuzel could have easily killed Valentine when he had him, and he wasn't as powerful as Asmodeus.) Which explains to me why he would have gone to her alone to strike a deal.  Not only would he not have wanted Lucian and Raphael present while she mocked his demonic parentage, the fact that he had another out (But didn't want to take it) would have given her leverage to make more demands on him. (And I definitely think she did.)

[jcmorgenstern]

Do you have any theories on what Lilith's and Sebastian's dynamic will be like in s3? She obviously cares about him but then again Sebastian says she had a 'strange way of showing her love'. He recalls surviving torture in Edom by clinging to his memories of freedom, so it's not like he was okay there. Lilith either didn't save Sebastian from being disfigured, she let the other demons hurt him or she did it herself (to make him stronger or whatever). Im so hyped about those two!

Yeah so….not gonna lie this is sort of a Problem for me, because Lilith is gonna have to do like, god-tier levels of gaslighting to convince him “oh sweetie uh, that was er uh, a mmmm,,,mistake?? mommy really loves you even if you don’t uhh, actually have skin anymore. whoops.” I’m actually sort of…worried about how they might resolve that, because er, the show doesn’t always have the best track record with being super self-consistent, but it could also be really interesting?? He also calls her “awful” or something, but I think it’s difficult to separate what he was saying about Jocelyn from what he was saying about Lilith. Like, I’m guessing he got the same “your mother left us because you’re a monster” treatment from show Valentine as he did from book Valentine, so there’s that. Also, Jocelyn was 100% down to mcfucking murder him with a crossbow too, so there’s That.My guess is she’ll be a combination of like, manipulative and,,,,loving in a way?? but also controlling and…..oh boy I can already smell the mindfuck. He is her only son. In the mythos all she ever wanted was a child. So like, she’s gonna bend heaven and earth to get him back and considering Valentine and Jocelyn were 100% down to kill him thats. Pretty good as Jonathan’s luck with parental figures goes. So unless they go for an angle where for some reason she couldn’t help him in Edom he’s gonna have some major fucking cognitive dissonance going on. Especially if she was also the one to teach him how his powers work, but I have a weird feeling Asmodeus and Lilith may be at odds and she may blame whatever happened on Asmodeus, sort of connecting the Asmodeus&Magnus arc it seems we’re getting in Edom. Also, Asmodeus fucking hated Sebastian in the books, which never ceases to amuse me.I’m guessing she’ll give him Sebastian’s body permanently because a) Will b) he’s ridiculously OP if they keep the shapeshifting thing. Like, unless there’s some sort of limitation they haven’t mentioned yet it just opens up millions of plot holes and makes him pretty much impossible to track down, etc etc. And that, combined with bringing him back and “giving” him Jace, who will probably the closest fucked up thing he’s had to family, will probably make him pretty happy. And if I had to guess they’ll keep up the Clary plotline (ughhhhhhhhh) and Lilith will be like “she’ll love you and accept you, I promise” but at the very least it will be the family that Valentine promised him and. Wow! I’m fine!! (Alternately he’ll be like “anyway Clary has to die” and the drama will come from that but….who knows).It’s also possible they’ll go a different route and make him much more her pawn, ie completely manipulated and or coerced, but honestly that’s very unlikely and a bit boring like, at some point he will have to take over as a villain and if his only motivation is just “because she said so” it won’t be very interesting. But if he does feel she is the only one who cares for him and doing whatever she wants will make her happy. So she really will probably represent him “embracing his demon nature” whatever that means and going from Angery Crispy Boy to Dickass Crispy Boy. Either way, I hope he gets a major wardrobe update, because castoff Gap 2004 isn’t doing it for me. (Sorry to the wardrobe department. But I need turtlenecks and dramatic wool coats, damn it!)Either way his only appearance in 3a so far has literally just been him cockblocking poor Clary and Jace and not-quite-literally busting in on them to just yell “KILL HER” so uhhhhhhhh sign me the fuck up I laughed so goddamn hard like….he apparently objected to this so much he couldn’t even think of anything better to say and went straight to DEATH.Anyway Sebastian will soon be able to add “Mommy Issues” as well as “Daddy Issues” to his resume and I, for one, am very proud that he’s at least thorough.

[fangirlingtodeath513]

S13 Sneak Peek Transcript

[Dabb]: Season 13 is about Sam and Dean starting in, maybe the worst place they’ve ever started.

[Dean]: Wow.

[Dabb]: In Season 12 you had a Sam and Dean who kind of had everything they wanted. Mom was back, they had this group of allies including Castiel, and Crowley, and Rowena, Jody Mills. And then a big part of last season was stripping all that away. [Buckner]: Crowley is dead, Rowena’s dead, burned to a crisp. Castiel is dead, Mary is vanished, so is Lucifer, they got sucked into apocalypse world at the same time. [Singer]: Really a, uh, season that was about the boy’s family coming together ends with their family being totally torn apart. [Berens]: It’s an undeniably grim starting point for their story. The only thing they have to rely on is each other. [Dabb]: And, by the way, they have the problem of- they just kind of inherited the Devil’s kid.

[Jack Kline]: Father. [Dean]: He’s half human, and half angel. [Jack Kline]: My father… I have to find him. [Dean]: He’s not God, he’s not Cas, he’s not Simba, he’s the freakin’ devil.

[Christine Barker]: What’s your name? [Jack Kline]: (after a pause) Jack.

[Dabb]: In some ways, he is predisposed to be evil, or you’d think we would, his dad’s Lucifer, but his mother Kelly was a- extremely noble character. Sam views him as possibly salvageable…

[Sam]: Whoa whoa whoa, easy, easy, easy, easy, okay? It’s okay.

[Dabb]: But early on, he views him as more necessary.

[Sam]: We need him. [Dean]: What?

[Dabb]: Jack’s been the one thing they know that can open a door to apocalypse world. If they have any hope of getting Mary back, they need Jack. [Ross-Leming]: Dean just wants to get rid of the kid, he basically thinks the kid is pure evil.

[Dean]: Even if he hasn’t gone big bad yet, he will. [Sam]: You don’t know that. [Dean]: Yeah, I do.

[Buckner]: Dean is just… as low as we’ve ever seen him, and, you know, the show is about resilience and being able to turn a disaster around and come back and he just doesn’t seem to be at that point. And of course, the reemergence of Castiel was a huge piece in turning Dean around again. [Ross-Leming]: He will return. I won’t reveal in what shape he’s in. [Berens]: When we pick back up with Castiel, we’ll be seeing him in an environment we’ve talk about on the show but have never seen. A very cool and interesting new place.

[Lucifer]: (to Mary) Hey.

[Singer]: Mary, we see in apocalypse world with Lucifer. He-it’s clearly a place in which whatever decent society there was there at one time is-is long since gone.  [Berens]: As we saw last season, Mary’s great at survival. She’s great at killing and staying alive. So, for her, as dark and difficult as this situation is, emotionally, it’s a very pure place for her to exist in. [Ross-Leming]: She’s not intimidated by Lucifer. She can give as good as she can get. She’s pretty tough.

[Buckner]: Asmodeus is a new character this year and he is the fourth Prince of Hell.

[Asmodeus]: Here to rule until such time as Lucifer returns with his son.

[Singer]: He’s enjoying his power, so when actually Lucifer does come back, he might not be greeted with the greatly opened arms that he would’ve hoped.

[Asmodeus]: There’s a new sheriff in town.

[Dabb]: Having been on for thirteen seasons, we’ve been really lucky to have some really awesome, awesome guest stars.

[Dean]: Why are you here? [Donatello]: Yes, that is the question we all must ask.

[Buckner]: We’re gonna bring back Donatello, the prophet that we introduced, uh, couple seasons ago. [Dabb]: Jody Mills coming back, Claire Novak will be back…

[Lucifer]: Michael?

[Dabb]: A new version of Michael that is significantly different than the version of Michael that we saw in season five.

[Missouri]: Boy, you put your foot on my coffee table, I’ma whack you with a spoon. [Dean]: I didn’t do anything. [Missouri]: Well you were thinkin’ about it.

[Berens]: This season we’ll be seeing Missouri Moseley again, for the first time in twelve years.

[Missouri]: I could use some help.

[Berens]: She’ll be bringing the boys in on a case that’s very personal to her. They will meet Patience Turner, Missouri Moseley’s granddaughter. They’ve not spoken in years. [Buckner]: And Missouri is actually important because she is our way into the spinoff.

[Patience]: Jody, behind you!

[Singer]: I think more than anything, Wayward Sisters is-has really been fan-generated, and we just kind of paid attention to it. [Berens]: Wayward has really developed organically over the course of many seasons, and it has a lot of different factors, one of which is just… how much we love Jody Mills, that we kept visiting her again and again, especially once we started folding in these characters, like Alex Jones and Claire Novak, and Donna Hanscum into her world…

[Donna]: Hiya.

[Berens]: It became increasingly obvious that that was a world we wanted to explore more. The story is basically what happens when Sam and Dean Winchester aren’t on this plane of existence to save the world?

[Jody]: (to Sam and Dean) You know, I do have a life when you guys aren’t around.

[Ross-Leming]: So now you have three girls who are engaging in a life outside the norm. They’re kind of outlaws, they really don’t fit in, and they are guided by two independent, female, older women who have lived life and who, I suppose, want the girls to avoid certain mistakes, but also are crime fighters, and they’re out there living on the front lines of their own danger.

[Dabb]: About, last… I would say November, I’m sitting in my office and I get a call from Jeremy Adams. So he calls me up and he’s like: “Have you guys ever thought about doing an episode crossing over Scooby Doo and Supernatural?” The first thing in my head was like “Why haven’t we thought of that?” Like that’s such an awesome idea. [Singer]: So Andrew mentioned it to me, I went “This sounds fantastic.” This one I’m really confident that it’s-it’s gonna be a smash.

[Unknown guy]: (to Jack) What are you on? [Jack Kline]: I’m… on a chair… on the floor… on the planet Earth.

[Buckner]: I really don’t remember a lot of shows that swing in tone like this does, it can swing in a single episode from the horrifying to comedy…

[Dean]: (to Jack) Wait wait wait wait, how old do you think you are? [Jack]: Three days, seventeen hours, and forty-two minutes.

[Ross-Leming]: They’ve lost their mother, they’ve lost Cas, but at least they have this possibly new life force that they can turn to the best. [Dabb]: You know, every other season there’s been something they can still rely on, whether it was Bobby or Cas, or whatever. Right now they have nothing but each other, but that’s the core of the show.

[Asmodeus]: (to Sam, Dean, and Donatello) Howdy boys.

[Lucifer]: Mary?!

[random-thoughts-collection]

Supernatural | 13.08 Review

Supernatural - The Scorpion and the Frog

written by Meredith Glynn, directed by Robert Singer

This eighth episode is quite an average episode for Supernatural, but one that I enjoyed watching. In retrospect I like it even a bit more because of its title. When first reading the title, I suspected a different outcome from what we got in the end.

The Case

"Safecracking? What is this, a heist? Hold up. Is this a heist?"

The case of this episode in general was a nice one. I didn’t believe for a second that they would actually get a tracking spell for Jack, because usually MotW episodes don’t have that kind of impact on the season arc – but the relation to the main plot of the season was nicely combined with a self-contained story for the episode.

Barthamus worked well for me because we finally got a demon again who wasn’t a henchman. He was doing his own thing, had no interest in Asmodeus (which is a much more demon-like behaviour in my book) and used an incentive as well as blackmail to get what he wanted. He reminded me a bit of the early days of Crowley in season 5, 6 or 7.

For Sam and Dean to get a tracking spell to find Jack and prevent Asmodeus from getting it, they agree to steal something from a man named Luther Shrike. Sam provides the distraction, a demon named Grab provides the location spell, Dean uses the location spell and is also needed to open the vault with a blood spell. The girl Alice comes along to crack the safe. It’s not the most impressive “heist” I’ve ever seen, but it was okay. It provides us with some nice brother moments (“don’t get dead”, “I just got an idea, but it's a little crazy”), Sam being a nerd about rare supernatural artefacts (“still really cool though”) and Dean being a worried big brother (“if something happens to my brother while we're out here dealing with this crap”).

Unfortunately it also has a few little things in it that felt a bit off – Dean’s reluctance to put his hand in the door opener for example. That was too much comedy for a quest that Dean wanted to finish as soon as possible because he was worried about Sam. Granted, Jensen Ackles is brilliant at comedy, but that scene turned out way too long. Another irritating moment was Sam trying to blow out the flames on the spell. Sam might have bad memories about fire, but I still think he would know of more effective ways to put out a flame like that. And last but not least: the blood sacrifice. Barthamus’ explanation is a bit unspecific, so the viewer is left wondering if Sam could do the blood sacrifice, too. It wouldn’t change anything in the episode, really, but it’s odd that it wasn’t mentioned.

Sold souls

"Tell me, Dean, do you know any men like that?"

On the upside, I’m really glad the writers finally remembered the face that Dean went to hell, too. We had some really great episodes with Sam and his past in Helll/the Cage and Lucifer in season 6, 7 and 11, but I’ve been hoping for a long time that someone would mention Dean’s time downstairs again. It was an issue in season 4 and got two or three verbal mentions in season 6, but that was basically it. And it’s nice that it was referenced again in an episode that also featured two characters who had made a deal with a crossroads demon. Both Luther and Alice have made deals with Barthamus and sold their soulds – Luther actually came to the beginning of hell and then got back from there, Alice has avoided going to hell until now. And Dean went all the way to hell, started losing himself, and then came back. There’s the theme of crossroads demons and soul deals in this episode, and I believe that’s also the basis for the blood spell. It is interesting to note that Dean has made at least two deals with crossroads demons, while Sam has shot the first one he summoned, got rejected by the second, apparently killed a third one when he was soulless, exorcised a demon out of Snookie,  and by season 10 crossroads demons don’t even answer a summoning on Sam’s name anymore.

So the blood spell most likely is related to the crossroads deal and being dragged to hell by hellhounds as a result. Sam has been to hell several times now – in the Cage, when he was rescuing Bobby, when he was facing Lucifer in season 11 – but all these moments weren’t part of a demon deal but very special circumstances.

 For Luther, the deal turned out to be a bad one. He gave his soul for the life of his son, but his son died five years later, anyway.  Luther, being bold enough, started blackmailing Barthamus with his mortal remains like Bobby did with Crowley at the beginning of season 6 and it had worked up until the time he left his heavily protected house in pursuit of the Winchesters.

We sadly don’t find out what exactly Alice’s deal was and how she convinced Barthamus to let her keep her soul in exchange for doing stuff like safecracking for him – but she survived the episode and is now free to live her live again, so maybe we’ll find out in the future?

Replies the scorpion: "It’s my nature..."

"When a demon tells us to jump, we don't ask how high. We just ice their ass."

When it was apparent that the Winchesters would make a deal with a crossroads demon, or at least pretend to, I assumed the “scorpion” in the whole story would be the demon. Sam and Dean would end up empty handed because they demon lied to them or something along these lines.

However, Sam and Dean end up being the scorpion. Despite needing the spell to find Jack, they hate the way they’re supposed to obtain the spell. They don’t trust Barthamus, and after hearing Luther’s story they’re also aware that they can’t trust a deal that was made with him – unlike how Crowley used to go about these things. On top of that, Alice’s soul is constantly in danger.

So when it comes to actually getting what they want, they can’t accept the deal. They refuse to give up Barthamus’ bones, and by that set in motion a little chain of events that leads to both of them – Barthamus and the Winchesters – losing. Barthamus dies and the Winchesters don’t get the spell.  Fighting guys like Barthamus and saving people like Alice, that’s in Sam’s and Dean’s nature indeed.  I think it’s a neat solution for the episode.

Next: The Bad Place (spoilers)

In the midseason finale next week the boys meet Jack again and try to find a way to save their mother. Apparently things don’t go as planned, and the Winchesters need a little bit of help. The episode is continuing the Wayward Sisters plotline, but I hope the help the boys need will only be little – or their problem really difficult thanks to some weird experiments by Jack for example. I have mixed feelings about a midseason finale that is used to introduce a spinoff, but I’m willing to wait with my criticism until I have seen the episode.

[mittensmorgul]

Is there anyone delving into the meta of Jack's name?

Okay, first off, friendo, are you somehow hacking into my search history, and into my chattybubble chats with @trisscar368 or @elizabethrobertajones? WELL ARE YOU?! If so, sorry about the spoilers about the fic I’ve been writing... but anyway, YES, in fact, I have been delving into it and just sorta... letting it all simmer...

I know we went into the meanings of Jack’s name back when we first learned he was going to be called Jack... but I went diving through my Jack tag and I just can’t muddle through all that early Jack speculation right now, so I figure I’ll just start fresh here. :P

trisscar368... see this is why i prologued with "meandering off to bed" because even to me i make no sense.  Also "the jack" - playing card?

mittensmorgulACK sorry, I don't know if you already went to bed... But I was thinking "the jack" like a car jack, a mindless tool that enables a human being to raise a car off the ground...

trisscar368*blink*Oh that would make sense too

mittensmorgulor maybe (depending on perspective) a child's toy that really hurts when you step on it

trisscar368Fits with the tool imagesFor some reason my brain is stuck on the jack -> the knave -> the Fool

mittensmorgulor a big jack, like a caltrop

trisscar368YeahThat tooSo many options

I’d scroll back like three days to where I was talking about this with lizbob, because we kind of expanded on this a bit, but until tumblr makes it easier to search backward through chat logs it’s just too much trouble to dig back that far :P

Needless to say, this actually set me off looking for Meaning™ in Jack’s name. Because Jack can mean a lot of things. I’m just gonna copy/paste the definitions from google here, and then have some fun with this:

jack1jaknounnoun: jack; plural noun: jacks; noun: Jack1. a device for lifting heavy objects, especially one for raising the axle of a motor vehicle off the ground so that a wheel can be changed or the underside inspected.

I guess this was why my first thought was exactly the first definition of jack. :P Because how often have we been screeching about how Jack is in fact a mirror for all of TFW? How he’s literally a vehicle for Sam, Dean, and Cas to deal with their own personal issues, inspecting the underside, so to speak, being able to see their own issues that had otherwise been buried or unrecognized. Jack’s doing some pretty heavy lifting in terms of shining lights on aspects of all three of his guardians’ Major Issues, enabling us to shine a light up under there. 

One thing I remember saying to lizbob when I explained this theory is that TFW is finally getting some fresh tires. :P

2. a playing card bearing a representation of a soldier, page, or knave, normally ranking next below a queen.

And here’s trisscar’s theory. I think this definition fit him more back when he was Intern Nougat, before he started seeking out his own hunts, and definitely before he went walkabout at the end of 13.06. But we shall see. He’s still trying to figure himself out.

3. a socket with two or more pairs of terminals, designed to receive a jack plug. synonyms: socket, outlet, plug, connection; "a phone jack"

Well, he quite literally acted as a jack in this sense in 12.19, when he plugged Cas into himself like some sort of cosmic toaster oven and used Cas to roast Dagon for him.

Unfortunately for Jack, Asmodeus tried to forcibly plug into his power (jacking jack, if you will... but you probably shouldn’t)

4. a game played by tossing and catching small round pebbles or star-shaped pieces of metal or plastic; a small round pebble or star-shaped piece of metal used in the game of jacks. noun: jackstone

And this is another one I’d come up with... Jack’s sort of at the mercy of the people around him, and the people trying to “scoop him up” in order to “win the game.” The angels, Asmodeus, Lucifer, and the Winchesters (including Cas) all have different motives for “winning Jack”

But heck, just thinking of a child’s game metaphorically here, Jack has been “playing” with his power for the most part. His first conscious use of it was to “jack” a vending machine to get free candy bars. Sam tried to encourage him to use the non-delinquent school-level performance of power in moving the pencil (still disappointed nobody’s actually said “wingardium leviosa”). But when he forgets, when he’s not keeping mind of his powers and they just sort of get tossed around willy-nilly, hooboy does it hurt when someone accidentally steps on it, you know? (the tattoo artist who got thrown into a wall, the poor security guard).

It’s not one of the official definitions, but since caltrops are also known as “jackrocks,” I’m assuming a connection here. Used in ancient times to slow the movement of troops (by injuring the feet of people, but especially of horses, etc.), they evolved into what we know as “spike strips” that puncture tires during police chases. They’re a vicious weapon, and nearly foolproof. No matter how they’re thrown, they always land with a pointy-side-up. Ouch.

I kind of think that this is how Jack thinks of HIMSELF right now, that no matter how much he tries to do good, all he does is hurt people.

5. in lawn bowling, the small ball at which the players aim.

Now this isn’t something I’m familiar with at all, but yeah. Going along with what I said under point 4 above, pretty much every player on the board right now is taking aim at Jack... poor kid.

6. US informal: used as a form of address to a man whose name is not known. NORTH AMERICAN informal: a lumberjack. archaic: a steeplejack. the figure of a man striking the bell on a clock.

Hit the road, Jack. Jack of all trades. In this sense, it’s interchangeable with such generic terms such as “Buddy,” “Pal,” (pal >.>) etc. But heck, Lumberjack. Now I kinda want the kid in plaid...

7.: a small version of a national flag flown at the bow of a vessel in harbor to indicate its nationality.

Union Jack, anyone? I have no idea how this relates to Nougat.

8. NORTH AMERICAN informal dated: money.

Well, this one must be REALLY dated, because I’ve never heard it before. But Jack and his potential power are certainly being treated like some sort of cosmic currency at the moment, no?

9. a device for turning a spit.

Wow these definitions are getting more and more obscure :P

Can we stick Lucifer, Michael, and Asmodeus on this spit and have a good old fashioned rotisserie? Please? Evil Colonel Sanders deserves no less.

10. a part of the mechanism in a spinet or harpsichord that connects a key to its corresponding string and causes the string to be plucked when the key is pressed down.

well alrighty, then. *thinks about randomly pressing down on Jack and seeing if that plucks his strings* *wonders if the result would qualify as “music”*

11. a marine fish that is typically laterally compressed with a row of large spiky scales along each side. Jacks are important in many places as food or game fish.

http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/the-fisher-king

12. the male of some animals, especially a merlin or an ass.

I was gonna just let the picture stand on its own, but heck, I looked up some info about merlins:

Merlins are small, fierce falcons that use surprise attacks to bring down small songbirds and shorebirds. They are powerful fliers, but you can tell them from larger falcons by their rapid wingbeats and overall dark tones. Medieval falconers called them “lady hawks,” and noblewomen used them to hunt Sky Larks.

and then for a sense of completeness, i looked up asses too...

Donkeys have a notorious reputation for stubbornness, but this has been attributed to a much stronger sense of self-preservation than exhibited by horses. Likely based on a stronger prey instinct and a weaker connection with humans, it is considerably more difficult to force or frighten a donkey into doing something it perceives to be dangerous for whatever reason. Once a person has earned their confidence they can be willing and companionable partners and very dependable in work.

And... okay both of these descriptions seem apt for Jack...

13. used in names of animals that are smaller than similar kinds, e.g., jacksnipe.

Well, he is the lil nougat son. The tiny smol giant manbabby. 

14. short for jackrabbit.

aka, the hare. that’s a very long article behind the link. For anyone interested. Y’all who get a kick out of Wild Speculation of the “Red string tangles and wild eyed conspiracy theory” variety.

15. US informal: short for jack shit.

Whelp I think this one speaks for itself.

jack2, jak, noun historical noun: jack; plural noun: jacks

1.another term for blackjack (sense 4).

Riverboat gambling, anyone? Lizbob?

2.a sleeveless padded tunic worn by foot soldiers.

I just googled “jack tunic” at first and... then immediately added “historical” and came up with much more apt results :P Basically, it’s a form of padded armor.

jack3verb NORTH AMERICAN informal’ verb: jack; 3rd person present: jacks; past tense: jacked; past participle: jacked; gerund or present participle: jackingtake (something) illicitly; steal. "his MO in the studio remains the same—jack other people's tracks and present them in a new context" rob (someone). "they jacked him for his car"

We’ll see how this eventually plays out.

Honestly, I’m just waiting for someone to say they’ve got “Jack on Jack.”

I don’t know if this is the sort of thing you were looking for, but I had fun researching it all anyway. So, thanks! :D

[nellie-elizabeth]

Supernatural: The Rising Son (13x02)

Okay! We're really starting to dig in and establish the set pieces and character arcs for this season, and I've gotta say, I'm quite interested in where things are going!

Cons:

I'm not all that interested in the newest Prince of Hell, but that could be because we've just met him. I think I'm a little uncomfortable spending time talking about the leadership of Hell since Crowley isn't around. The scenes with all of the demon cronies arguing over protocol have never been the most interesting thing about Supernatural, and the one thing that made these scenes worthwhile was having Crowley there. I hope we can do something interesting and new with Hell, instead of doing the same old stuff, minus our favorite King of Hell to spice things up. That said, I'm not writing off Asmodeus quite yet. He could be interesting.

Pros:

Let's start with the subplot, actually: Mary and Lucifer are the strangest reluctant duo I can imagine. Lucifer figures that they need each other if they're ever going to get out of this parallel universe and get back to their sons. Lucifer's plan is to trade Mary to the Winchesters in exchange for Jack. Mary is going along with this plan somewhat, since she's obviously at a complete loss. Eventually, the two are accosted by a bunch of angels, but Lucifer is able to kill them all easily. He then comes face to face with the alternate world version of his brother Michael, who apparently killed his own Lucifer some time ago, and is ready to kill another one. The two begin to fight.

Lucifer is such a great villain, obviously, and it's fun in a sick sort of way to see him with his powers intact. He's able to wipe out a bunch of powerful angels no sweat, he punches through a human torso to stop a random hunter from hurting Mary, and he and Michael trade some seriously powerful blows. We briefly learn in this episode that Jack is destined to be more powerful than the angel that sired him, so it was cool to see Lucifer at full strength so we get a real idea of what we're talking about.

This alternate reality affords so many wonderful opportunities for callbacks and fun returns for characters. We see Michael played by a different actor here, but he's an angel, so that hardly matters. We could bring back fan favorites, see other returning names in different bodies, and so much more. Obviously I'm rooting for Mary to be reunited with her boys, but I wouldn't mind sticking around and exploring more of this world in the meantime!

The main story is basically just Sam vs. Dean in the argument about Jack. Sam of course thinks he can be raised to be a good person, while Dean is convinced that Jack is destined for great evil. They get some assistance in the form of the prophet Donatello, who is awed by Jack's power but seems slightly more on Sam's side of things, willing to treat Jack like a kid and learn more about him. Jack gets kidnapped by Asmodeus in the guise of Donatello, and Asmodeus convinces him to open a cage with great evil trapped inside. Sam, Dean, and the real Donatello arrive in time to stop Jack, and when Asmodeus starts hurting them, Jack unleashes his power at Asmodeus to protect his friends from harm. The episode ends with Jack stabbing himself over and over, and healing instantly. Dean catches him at it and tells him to stop. Jack wonders what he is, and Dean assures him that if Jack goes evil, Dean will put him down.

I appreciate that we're taking things a bit slow, and it looks like hopefully Jack will be a real part of the integrated plot moving forward. The setup here is genius. Of course Sam would feel connected to Jack in some way, given his own past with dark and inexplicable magic. And of course Dean would do what he always does, and try to be pragmatic to the point of losing his sense of humanity. There's a wonderful moment where Jack asks why Dean hates him, and Sam replies that Dean is angry and scared, and he's lashing out at Jack. Jack asks why Dean would be afraid, and Sam replies that Dean thinks it's his job to save everybody, and now he's stuck trying to figure out how to save people from Jack, while meanwhile Sam is trying to save Jack himself.

It was so cool to have the show acknowledge the reasoning for Dean's behavior, and it was so interesting that Sam was able to pick up on Dean's motivations with such accuracy. Obviously they've been through similar routines before, and Sam, true to form, is going to fight to keep Dean from falling apart. He gives another wonderful little speech to Dean towards the end of the episode, where he talks about how Jack is afraid of who he is, and he's afraid of Dean, too. Sam knows that losing Mary and Cas has been difficult on both of them, but they're the Winchester brothers. They claw their way back from rock bottom. It's what they do. As angry and closed off as Dean is, he's not completely shutting Sam out. He knows they disagree about Jack, but he's not about to start the murder attempt without Sam being on board. As messed up as they both are right now, they're still a team.

Jack is... adorable, I guess is the word. And so deeply troubled. I really like him a lot, much more than I was expecting to. We can already see the parallels between Jack's behavior towards Dean, and Dean's own behavior towards John Winchester. Jack wants to please Dean, but is also afraid of him, and doesn't understand what he's done to disappoint him. Dean doesn't want to be a father figure to Jack, obviously, but it's like he can't help himself. The final scene between them is so intense and strange and awful. The sight of Jack stabbing himself over and over was really haunting and disturbing. Dean was obviously horrified, too. He wants to believe, probably for his own sanity, that Jack is irredeemably evil, but I think he's coming to understand that maybe he's just a scared kid who has no idea what's going on. But the problem is... that doesn't mean he can be saved. That doesn't mean he's not too dangerous to live. This sort of dilemma is the kind of thing that keeps Dean Winchester up at night...

I think I've said all I need to about this one. I'm excited for Cas' return, whenever that happens, and I look forward to more development of the Jack situation in the future. So far, this season has me hooked!

9/10

[ourloveisforthelovely]

Fix You 13

A/n: Big shout out to @sumara62 for all of your advice and dealing with my difficult self! 

Link to chapter 12

Words: 3, 891

Pairings: Gabriel x OFC

________

Gabriel stood looking at the place where Chuck stood for a few moments before Cas' hand on his arm pulled Gabriel from his thoughts.

“You should go talk to Molly.”

Gabriel shot Cas a cold glare before storming into the bedroom only to find it empty. He quickly walked back into the living room trying to ignore that hollow feeling that wouldn't go away. From the time that Amara had took away the bond all he felt was emptiness.

“She isn't in there! Her and Joy are gone!”

Cas and Dean, with matching frowns, began to go through each room to see if Molly was just hiding from Gabriel. Dean didn't blame her. At the particular moment he would hide from Gabriel if they were together. Dean shivered at that thought.

“Erase!”

He muttered coldly. Dean stood in his room scratching his head. He was trying to think of any possible place that Molly and Joy could be hiding. Cas walked in looking beyond worried.

“Dean, they aren't here. Gabriel's right. They are gone.”

Dean growled. What was Molly thinking?! She was out there alone and totally vulnerable! Dean would have thrown Gabriel out before he let Molly leave. This was her home! She was one of the few people that got him and now she was gone!

“Son of a bitch!”

Cas stepped forward trying to appear as calming as possible. He didn't know which one to comfort first Dean or Gabriel. Cas didn't even know how to comfort himself let alone someone else. All he knew was the upcoming days was to be hell for everyone!

(4 years later...)

Amara sat on the patio of Molly's house in San Diego watching JoyAnna attempt to hopscotch.

“Look what I can do auntie!”

The little girl squealed. Amara smiled looking over her rather large sunglasses and took a sip of the sparkling water that was in her hand.

“Very nice, darling.”

She said in approval as the little girl went back to her activities. Molly stepped out of the sliding glass door with another bottle of sparkling water in her hand. Amara looked up with a smile.

“Sweet one, you are going to drown me with all of this water. Rest a bit! You worry too much.”

Molly half smiled. Amara looked elegant as ever in a long black dress and huge sunhat.

“Just want to make sure that you are comfortable.”

Amara chuckled.

“Dear, I am most comfortable. If I wasn't I would be sure to let you know. Sit down and rest.”

Molly did as she was told and sat down in the patio chair beside Amara to watch JoyAnna play. The past four years had been some of the most difficult years of Molly's life. After leaving Gabriel, she tracked down Balthazar and told him everything that happened. He immediately agreed to hide his daughter to keep her away from the archangel. It took Molly some time to get Balthazar to agree to not go after Gabriel. When she said, “If you won't go for me, do it for JoyAnna. She won't understand.” After that Balthazar agreed to keep his distance from Gabriel and let sleeping dogs lie.

After being gone about a month and a half Amara showed up at the house wanting to help Molly. At first Balthazar was highly against it but eventually he came around after realizing that Amara wasn't some evil being of death anymore. In fact, he pretty much left Amara to the care and keeping of his daughter and grad daughter. Staying in one place too long wasn't Balthazar and everyone accepted that. He would still be in multiple times a week to make sure all was well.

Amara kept team free will off of their backs quiet nicely. In 4 years, Molly hadn't heard a peep from Gabriel. She knew that it wasn't from his not trying either. If Amara let her powers slide even the slightest, Molly knew that Gabriel would find them with little to no difficulty.

Molly sighed at the thought of Gabriel. She would like to say that she was over the archangel and didn't want him back but she couldn't. Molly wasn't over him and she knew deep down that she never would be. She would always love Gabriel even if he admitted that he was only with her because he had to be.

She had found herself raging over Gabriel to Amara plenty of times. There was many evenings, after Joy, went to bed Molly would pacing the floor telling Amara all of her feelings.

“I don't understand him. He always said that he loved me. Hell, I even felt feelings of love coming from him. Did he fake all of that?”

Amara would shrug before saying softly.

“Darling, archangel's are complicated beings. I don't doubt my nephews devotion to you but I do question why he would say something like that. Even if it was to appease his father, Gabriel should have known how cold that came across.”

Molly was pulled from her thoughts when Amara started talking.

“Joy is getting smarter by the day. She was speaking French to Balthazar on the phone last night. You would have thought that she was native speaker. She makes me so proud! Oh, and a rather embarrassing note, she fixed my iPad. Stupid technology. Chuck had the bright idea to get her an iPad. That brother of mine has turned that sweet child into a techno geek.”

Molly chucked. Amara was most definitely correct when it came to Joy's brains. The 5 year old had to be on genius level Of course her genetics contributed but it was always amusing to see what the child could come up with.

Amara sighed.

“I know you probably don't want to hear this but she reminds me so much of Gabriel. Not only her appearance but things that she does.”

Molly nodded. It didn't bother her being told that. She had always thought that JoyAnna had taken so much after her father. Molly sighed sadly. What broke her heart the most was that JoyAnna would often ask when Gabriel was coming to get them. In her little mind she seemed to assume that her daddy would come for them at some point. Molly didn't have the heart to tell her that wasn't happening.

“Its fine Amara. I see it too.”

JoyAnna had stopped her hopscotching to look up at her mother and great aunt with a sneaky wave. Amara giggled.

“That had Gabriel all over it.”

Molly smiled.

“It sure does. He would be delighted.”

Amara nodded. Her beautiful face became serious as she turned to Molly.

“We can get him here if you want. I know that you miss him.”

Molly looked away quickly. The last thing that she wanted was to start crying. After a few moments of silence she finally had herself collected enough.

“I'm not ready for that. Not to mention my father would through a bitch fit.”

JoyAnna meanwhile, stopped in her playing to look at her mother with a tisk tisk expression.

“Mommy! You said bitch!”

As soon as the word bitch left JoyAnna's mouth she snapped her hands over her mouth. Amara gave her that disapproving expression that she would anytime that JoyAnna decided to use her grace to do something that she shouldn't.

“JoyAnna Gabriela you know that is a bad word.”

Molly said calmly. Joy shrugged nonchalantly.

“Well I didn't mean it.”

She muttered as she kicked at a rock and gave Molly that same pouty expression that Gabriel would anytime that he had done something wrong. Amara shook her head.

“That is very unbecoming behavior young lady.”

JoyAnna sighed again. She was expecting to get a lecture that she needs to behave more properly. She was going to be destined for great things and bad behavior wasn't going to accomplish anything. Joy was no fool. She knew that her mother and aunt was trying to prevent her from acting like her father. There was so many questions the child wanted to ask her mother about where Gabriel went and why he hadn't come for them. However, the pained expression in her mother's eyes whenever her father's name was mentioned was enough to stop the child dead in her tracks. Whatever Gabriel did must have been very bad!

“I'm sorry auntie. I love you.”

Amara's tough expression cracked right away as she looked down at her niece.

“I love you too. Now go ahead and play.”

Once JoyAnna was occupied Amara turned quickly to Molly.

“She's good!”

Molly nodded with a proud smile.

“She comes by that honest. Amara, you said that Gabriel wouldn't be able to locate us right?”

Amara nodded.

“Of course dear. Why do you ask?”

Molly shrugged.

“Well last night on every freaking radio station I turned that radio to it was nothing but REO Speedwagon's Keep on Loving You on every channel. Doesn't that sound Gabriel like to you?”

Amara's nose scrunched up.

“Sneaky little shit! It sure does! Molly, darling, fucking with your radio and finding you are two different things. I don't want you to worry.”

Meanwhile back at the bunker....

Gabriel sat looking miserably at the the wall. The past four years had been the worst of his life. He hated to say it but he would take Asmodeus torture again if it got him his wife and child back. That was a lot coming from him too as much as he hated the prince of hell!

For four years the archangel had been looking tirelessly for any sign of Molly and couldn't find shit! He had literally looked at all ends of the earth! How hard could it be to find Molly?! Cas had even been looking and was coming up short as well too.

Between looking for Molly and JoyAnna, Gabriel kept himself busy by drinking any kind of booze that he could get his hands on. Dean would look at Gabriel and actually look concerned. Gabriel was even starting to look older, which was really odd.

“Good thing you don't have a liver that has to function. You would be screwed.”

Gabriel rolled his eyes.

“Dead sounds better.”

Sam sighed.

“With that attitude do you think Molly would want to come back to you?”

Gabriel snorted.

“Well it isn't like she's breaking down the door to get to me! No one gets it. You two jokers don't get it neither does Cas or Jack! These soul mate bonds are no joke.”

Sam ran a hand through his hair trying to stop himself from giving Gabriel a bitch face.

“Amara broke your bond.”

Gabriel started to laugh bitterly.

“She broke it for Molly. She didn't entirely break it on my end. I have this empty hollow feeling that is literally eating me alive. I've never felt this empty in my life. I feel like I am missing my right arm. I also feel like my batteries are dying. Look at that I am weak again! Everything that I care about is just....gone.”

Sam and Dean exchanged looks. Dean rolled his eyes trying not to make a gagging sound. Gabriel and mushy was enough to make him want to gag. He had heard Gabriel be mushy with Molly and that wasn't anything odd but this....was awful!

Before Gabriel had a chance to go into another spill about losing another body part, Jack came in.

“I know where Molly and Joy are!”

Gabriel moved faster than he had in days. He had Jack against the wall, totally ignoring the slightly freaked out expression on his nephew's face.

“WHERE?!”

Jack slowly wiggled away from Gabriel. He reached out tapping his arm attempting to be comforting.

“San Diego. I don't know what kind of power that she has been using to guard her location but it dropped enough for me to get the address. I suggest we go now.”

Gabriel looked more annoyed.

“I bet it was Amara. I bet you money. Why are we all standing here looking at each other! Let's get going!”

Dean raised an eyebrow as Gabriel all but bolted out the door.

“Lets all go follow the crazed archangel. We need to have a no crazy person policy around here.”

The next night everyone stood in front of a nice house that was  away from mostly everything.

“Sheesh you think they are out far enough?”

Dean asked. Gabriel shrugged and started to walk toward the house but stopped when Cas grabbed him around the waist.

“We don't need to just go busting in the door.”

Gabriel growled angrily.

“Like hell we can't! I am just going to go in there and throw her over my shoulder and take her home!”

Dean rolled his eyes.

“Yeah, like she would really want to be with you then!”

Cas looked to Dean.

“Go and find a way inside I am going to get him sorted out.”

Dean nodded and quickly walked to the door followed by Sam and Jack. After a few minutes of Dean messing with the door Jack stepped forward.

“Maybe there is a key under he mat?”

Dean shook his head.

“Molly wouldn't leave a key under the mat. Too easy.”

Dean took out his knife and continued to fiddle with the lock until he got it open.

“Son of a bitch! I cut myself.'

He hissed as they stepped inside. Neither noticed Joy who had stepped in the room and was looking at her family with a raised eyebrow. For the moment, she didn't know it was them as they had their backs turned to her.

“And what have we learned, human? How not to break into someone's house I hope.”

All three turned around quickly completely freezing when seeing how much Joy had grown. Jack immediately smiled.

“Joy!”

Joy looked at him a moment before smiling and taking off to Jack eagerly jumping in her cousins arm.

“Jack! Sammy! Dean! What are you three doing here?”

Sam and Dean smiled both feeling relived. Jack was busy eagerly hugging her and mentally checking her to make sure all was well.

“Lookin for you squirt.”

JoyAnna smiled again as she took her head off of Jack's shoulder.

“Well were I am .You know we have a key under the mat.”

Sam turned looking at Dean with an expression of annoyance. Dean smirked as Joy patted Jack's arm.

“Down please.”

Jack sat her down. Joy quickly reached out touching Dean's bleeding hand instantly healing it.

“You're bleeding all over the carpet. Auntie Amara will have a cow.”

Joy walked to the open door and moved the doormat over. She came back in with a shiny golden key in her hand and handed it to Dean.

“Here you go. Also before I forget...”

Snapping her fingers she handed Dean a season of the TV show COPS.

“Here is a season of COPS. Please watch this and we will discuss it later in the morning.”

Dean's eyes winded as he looked at Sam.

“You watch cops? You are like 5 years old!”

Joy nodded with a smile.

“Grandpa Balthazar calls it character building on what not to do.”

About that time Cas and Gabriel finally walked in the door. Cas immediately looked to Dean.

“You found a way in. Thank goodness. We need to find...”

Cas froze the moment that he realized that Joy was by his leg. He immediately dropped down to her level feeling a sense of relief wash over him. Joy smiled.

“Hi Cassie.”

Cas smiled.

“Hello dear. You have grown. How are you?”

Joy reached out straightening his tie.

“Fine.”

Cas looked at her closely. She still had Gabriel's eyes and Molly's features. Right away he sensed a lot of Gabriel in the child.

“I'm not going to untie you shoes.”

She said with a smirk. Cas raised an eyebrow.

“You remember that? That has been a very long time ago.

Joy nodded.

“I can remember everything. I can do a lot of things.”

Cas felt his smile fading at the last sentence out of the child's mouth. Right away he knew that was innuendo to her being more powerful than he expected. Cas couldn't help that sinking worry that had been consuming him return. He had worried about Amara “training” Joy for some time. A half nephilim half archangel being was bound to be able to cause some damage.

“I'm sure you can.”

Cas stood back up meeting Gabriel's worried gaze.

“JoyAnna turn around. Do you remember him?”

Joy turned to face Gabriel. She looked at him for a moment before instantly smiling.

“Hi daddy.”

Gabriel instantly dropped to his knees. He looked at Joy for a minute taking in her sweet face.  Realizing how much he had missed of her life felt like Gabriel had been kicked in the stomach over and over. He thought being tortured by  Asmodeus and having his ass kicked by Loki was bad. This was a million times worse!

“Hi princess.”

Gabriel held out his hands, unsure of what to do. JoyAnna stood looking at him for a moment clearly analyzing his intentions before letting go of Cas' leg and going to her father. The moment that her arms was around him and her face snuggled in his neck some of that empty hopeless feeling vanished.  

When the light flipped on Gabriel gathered Joy into his arms before standing up.

“JoyAnna, what are you doing down here? You are supposed to be in ….bed.”

Molly walked into the room. She instantly froze the moment that she realized that she had house guests. Her mouth dropped the moment she saw everyone. Before she knew what happened Jack had her in his arms.

“Molly! I have missed you so much! We have been so worried! Are you okay? Do you need me to fix anything?!”

Molly smiled enjoying the hug for a moment until Jack pulled away.

“Jack how are you all here?”

Jack smiled eagerly.

“I found you. Whatever you were doing or using....there was break and I was able to find you. We all really want to talk. We are really worried about Gabriel. He isn't right.”

“HEY!”

Molly's eyes went wide hearing that voice! She turned to face Gabriel, who was holding Joy in his arms. Her mouth dropped seeing him just feet away. Molly wasn't sure if it was his appearance or the how exhausted Gabriel looked that bothered her. Gabriel actually looked a few years older and pale not to mention he had a huge bruise on the side of his cheek. Despite all of this he was still handsome sweep you off of your feet Gabriel. Molly continued to look him over. There he stood in all of his archangel glory dressed in a half unbuttoned tux shirt and a long black trench coat. Molly swallowed trying to control the emotions going through her.

Gabriel gave Jack another scowl before looking to Molly.

“Hey sugar.”

Molly pressed her lips together and tried to control her heart.

“Hi Gabriel.”

Gabriel looked around.

“Where's your dad? I figured he would be attacking me by now.”

Joy giggled as she picked her head up off of Gabriel's shoulder.

“He's out with his new girlfriend. She is where brain cells go when they die.”

Every mouth in the room but Molly's dropped at Joy's comment. Gabriel was looking his daughter fighting the urge to smile.

“JoyAnna!”

Molly said in her firm mother tone. Joy blinked innocently.

“Grandpa said that himself. I only agree because she thinks that I am illiterate.”

Dean chuckled.

“Lord help us.”

Gabriel kissed her on the forehead before sitting her down.

“Darlin go play with Jack while I talk to your mom.”

Joy didn't immediately move.

“Am I going to see you again daddy or will it be another few years?”

Gabriel's heart plummeted. He glanced at Molly carefully before looking back to his little princess.

“I'm not leaving you for a long time ever again.”

Seeming pleased with his answer, JoyAnna took off to Jack.

“Come on Jack, come look at my toys.”

Gabriel stood up turning to face Molly.

“Can we talk?”

Molly looked over her shoulder making sure that Joy was safety in her room with the door shut.

“Sure, come on.”

Gabriel followed Molly up the stairs into her bedroom. Closing the door behind him, Gabriel took off his coat and turned to face Molly.

“You are a hard person to find Molly.”

Molly smirked.

“Maybe I didn't want to be found.”

Gabriel sighed.

“I deserved that. What I don't get is why you just vanished the way that you did.”

Molly rolled her eyes.

“Well fuck Gabe, I don't know either! When your husband says RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU that he is only with you because he has to be that is enough to break your heart! You wanted to be free and do whatever it was you were doing behind my back....have at it! Don't let me hold you back!”

Gabriel's mouth fell.

“Molly! What the hell? I didn't mean it like that! I really should watch how I say shit! Molly I don't I would love you without a bond. Right now I can say I love you more than I ever have. I don't need some bond to make me love you. I just wish that you would trust me.”

Molly looked away.

“I'm having a hard time Gabriel. Again, you shut me out of so much stuff in your life. I am just in a little dark closet so to speak. That day that Chuck and Amara came, it confirmed everything I was afraid of. You hide stuff from me. Stuff that I need to know about! What do you expect me to think when you get killed by Lucifer or whoever the fuck else you were after?”

Gabriel froze looking down at his feet. Loki's words hit him hard again and he couldn't look Molly in the eye.

“I'm sorry. I'll tell you everything...”

Molly sighed.

“I don't expect anything from you anymore.”

Gabriel looked up then.

“What will it take to get you back?”

Molly was quiet a moment. She had a lot of temptation to just go jump the archangel and have her way with him. Maybe Gabriel was right? Did they have to have a bond to say that they were in love with each other? It sure as hell didn't seem like it! Gabriel stood feet away and Molly could easily admit that she loved him.

However, she knew that he needed to work for their relationship and so did she...

“Prove to me that you actually love me and that I can trust you....that's my word.”

________

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