#and because aaron Is lawrence

[warlenys]

lawrence and robert same person but lawrence and Aaron. same Situation. gay in prison. suffering. caught as the lover of a married man. the love of both of their lives is robert sugden. but aaron gets away with that because unlike lawrence he isn’t robert. so robert doesn’t hate him. so robert doesn’t kill him

[escapingreality51]

I got on the train to work and started rewatching the whole robron storyline, and there are so many romantic casualties to these two idiots in love and some of them I'd completely forgotten. So, here is a comprehensive list of all the people who have been hit by the freight train that is robert and aaron's relationship, in preparation for the next addition...

Chrissie. The OG casualty of robron, the trophy wife who wanted it all and wanted the hot shot husband except the one person who never really wanted that was robert. The woman who wanted to marry a version of Robert that didn't exist and live a perfect life where she could be beautiful on the arms of a beautiful man who adored her. Well, RIP. I will forever love Chrissie for giving us lines such as "I promise, I won't ever cheat on you with another woman" from robert (really relying on that technicality robbo), "you had an affair with a man" and "there's only one person in my marriage sleeping with another man and it's not me!". She really drew the short straw, ending up dead at the hands of her own son...

Finn, the second casualty, a very short-lived romantic interest who was used by Aaron to make Robert jealous in the early days. He suffered an atrocious date with Aaron while Robert watched, after which Aaron ruined Robert's car mirrors and then they fucked. We appreciate your sacrifice, Finn, as you gave us one of the most iconic robron kisses, including two wall shoves.

Rebecca. The other beautiful White woman who looked upon robert and thought "I can fix him" and then realised she absolutely couldn't. Try as she might, and she really tried, there truly was "no one else" for our dear insane robert and she got the shortest straw of them all, coming 2nd in Robert's mind to both Chrissie and Aaron. The mother of Robert's son then left Emmerdale and died off-screen of "complications" iirc.

Lawrence, the THIRD White to see Robert and think "I can fix him" (what is up with this family and wanting to bang robert)... okay not technically a casualty of robron but definitely a casualty of how insane Rob became while he and Aaron were apart... I also couldn't leave him off the list, the storyline was too insane, especially as I had completely repressed all memories of it happening until my darling claudia reminded me and I burst out laughing while on public transportation.

Alex, oh Alex... Dr Hair, the most boring man to watch on screen. The chemistry between him and Aaron really wasn't there and he was more of a palate cleanser until he realised that he truly does just want to be with Robert. Aaron was ready to break up but then Alex accidentally killed a man so Aaron felt bad. Gave us iconic moments such as Robert's iconic "I hope my husband makes you very happy" and being dumped in a gay bar while "crazy in love" plays in the background.

Mike the Chef, aka the hot irish gay guy Bernice tries to set Robert up with on their night out to forget Aaron. Had a pug named Gary, and also tried to pull Robert in a ploy to make Aaron jealous. And it almost worked!! He had to go home alone after Robert bailed on fucking him because he loved Aaron too much, giving us the most perfect reunion ever while Aaron declares his love and cries.

John, you'll be in mediocre company!

Also I've omitted all the actual casualties of them, the people who actually or almost died as a result of robron... that might be another list...

[rcbertsugden]

Since there's an anon going round asking people for their top 10 episodes by year, I thought I'd do mine, in chronological order.

2015

- 12th February: the scene between Robert and chaddy is one of my favourite scenes ever. The early show of honesty vulnerability amongst the bravado... yum.

- 8th April: so cute. Robert worried about Aaron being out all night, putting his lil jacket over Aaron like a blanket, care about him I don't just! Stupid interfering bitch. Pebble rock. It's just so good.

- 22nd June: this may be violating the rules because it has nothing to do with robron but I stan the dinner party from hell with coira and chrobert.

- 8th July: for obvious reasons. But also it was my first ever live episode so it holds a massive place in my heart.

- 20th July: the heart eyes, the suits, the sneaking around home farm. Absolute gold.

- 23rd July: just vote for all of July at this rate, I hear you. I would love to. But of course I had to do the insanity of the lodge. The affair reveal is fab but this is included for "falling in love with you ruined everything" and "you said you loved me too remember" and Robert crying on the floor like a lost child.

- 24th September: it's hard to pick between the episodes this week because they're firing on absolutely every cylinder. But from a robron perspective, it has to be this one, as a noted scrapyard scene apologist. Ryan is at his very best here.

- 22nd October: we have the who shot robert flashbacks, "I can't stop loving someone like him", Aaron going to whack him with a wrench, the hurt Robert feels when he finds out Aaron's been arrested and the iconic list of suspects he reels off.

- 2nd December: I'm your man! You're never gonna be that again! My fave robron scene of all time tbh.

- 18th December: I tried to resist but this couple of months is where I live. The flirting in this one! Us living under the same roof wouldn't that be cosy! Robert was so determined to get Aaron back he was willing to inherit a pub. Icon.

2016

- 21st January: my favourite scene of all time may be I'm your man, but this has my favourite line of all time. Being in fandom then was such a good time despite how difficult the storyline was. I just remember reading an article about the episode and it said something along the lines of Robert maybe having a revelation of his own, but I don't think anyone expected an ily??? I had to grip my chair to keep from falling off it. Iconic. The whole episode was so amazingly acted and the centrepiece of one of the best weeks emmerdale ever had.

25th February: the spoiler drop for this one was iconic. We met beloved Liv for the first time, Robert got kneed, we got the entirely ridiculous "of course I still want this" as if Aaron had ever done anything but resist Robert's attempts to get back together, an icon! And of course the first fairly pathetic attempt at a near kiss, love it though. A note for Robert's hair as well.

2nd March: Robert in a maroon suit! The absolutely insane flirting. You lost your touch?!? AS IF?!? Chrissie's "it's good to know who you are". Their faces when Vic says its a date??? Smitten kitten??!?!?!?! I live here x

15th April: we finally get justice for Aaron. We also get the insane Adam realising they're together from one touch, and the absolutely stunning scene outside the woolpack. Probably controversial, but better than the reunion itself for me.

14th July: Yes, Charity catching them in the shower is gold as is Robert's insane lust. The real star of the show is the two boyfriend drops and the hilarious "not that you're not lovely" "or your daughter in law" and "the man went to prison for being gay, guess what in other news he's still gay". I loved Lawrence and Ronnie's relationship so that was also a highlight.

16th August: the handbag line is great but this isn't robron's episode, this is robert and andy's episode. Bernice also deserves a mention. Funny, heartbreaking, poignant. The perfect send off, really.

17th October: I don't even need to explain this one.

24th October: another one I tried to resist but it's just perfect oh my god it's so cute.

16th December: the pub quiz!!!!!

25th December: their first Christmas together ❤️ I still have Aaron's jumper.

2017 (this is so difficult bc I've never really rewatched it outside of the fandom rewatches)

- 5th January: I don't like this as much as I should, but there's no denying the suits and the Vegas stuff is brilliant. And I love the rolo joke.

- 23rd January: the pub scene is so damn sweet. Robert sitting in the dark worrying about Aaron. Got too much keeping me here these days! You're not on your own you're with me remember! I wouldn't wanna be anywhere else! The casual touches. Just lovely.

- 20th February: DIRTY LITTLE GREASE MONKEY okay the whole thing is perfect but that one line is enough. And also big gay wedding in the morning... queen.

- 21st February: I wouldn't normally do 2 in a row but. The garage scene, the callbacks, the first dance that wasn't a first dance, wouldn't kick blondie out of bed for leaving crumbs.

- 23rd February: 3 in a row is bad I know but it has my favourite moment of theirs (which is different to line and scene tyvm). The fucking forehead heart kiss hug thing it's perfect and nobody will ever beat that level of romance ever. The teasing about Robert's shower gel is also adorable.

- 10th April: partly heinous but then most of 2017 is. It still gave us the glorious picnic and clothes swap so. I've had better, well I haven't! Is that something else you don't do outdoors?! I'm Aaron Dingle I don't eat salmon and I don't have sex outdoors!

- 25th May: my beautiful husband who I love!!! People don't stay with me!! People don't forgive me!!! I love you, still, yeah, I love you more!! Such a tough watch but also all time epic romance moments.

- 19th June: I love them teaming up to fuck over Ross, and the weed plot was iconic. A rare moment of levity in that time.

- 29th November: our robbo back in the mill where he belongs! The chemistry... phew!!

- 25th December: again, one I don't love as much as I should, but their insane love for each other and the fashion in this episode makes it worth it. Robert becoming a real boy is so important to me.

*shudders*

2018

- 11th January: nothing to do with robron, again, but I know in my heart as a chrobert stan I must include their final parting. Also, Larry's death is hilarious.

- 14th February: what did we do for Valentine's last year? Oh I won't even quote anymore, this is on the list for one scene and one scene only: POCKET DIAL. invented romance.

- 15th February: SO underrated. Obviously we have the adorable "I think he wanted me" but also the stuff about it actually was what it looked like and Aaron being so close to choosing Robert and then.

- 22nd February: reuniting with Aaron is part of the bisexual contract <3 bonus points for the delivery of "oh my god we forgot the baby" and the vanity scenes.

- 5th April: the kidnap plot was nonsense but I had to include some of the jobert feud and Robert's worry over Aaron was gorgeous.

- 26th July: the proposal is wonderful but honestly this was even better. Both of them coming up with their proposals, the reactions from Chas and Liv, the fucking Robron and Seb scene oh my god it's too cute.

- 30th July: fiiine I'll include the proposal too. You made it okay to be me! Jinx! Except it's not some random layby! Chas and Liv plotting. The plans to adopt Seb. It's not Lachlan is it! Yeah, just a wonderful episode. Most couples would dream of such a good proposal and we got two separate iconic proposals. Here's hoping the third will be as good!

- 28th September: Robert calling them bachelors lmaooooo. The vadam sideplot was good and of course the stag do and karaoke was EVERYTHING.

- 5th October: obviously. The watch!! Their suits!! The Love We Stole!!! Their heart eyes!!! The speeches!!! Wedding 1.0 is better, but honestly, they really ate this one, too.

- 20th November: Robert hanging out with children and getting his pretty shirts ruined. I stan. This being the thing that makes him realise he wants more kids, very cute. I'm not a parent robron fan really but I was almost cheering here. Shout out to it being the beginning of Robert and Nicola being awful to Graham (affectionate).

2019

- 22nd January: my favourite version of this episode is the secret one that only existed in spoilers but what we did get was great too! Shenanigans with Seb and Spamela and that wonderful chat with Aaron and Moira about their partners being nightmares. All capped off with the cutest lil nap.

- 26th March: the weirdest, most fun wlw mlm solidarity double date dinner. I live for Robert and Charity being the same person being called out.

- 11th April: this gave us so much! Smiling at each other talking about having a family together, Liv standing up to Maya, the absolutely GORGEOUS conversation between Robert and Liv about not having to change for anyone (that convo hit 20 year old me Hard), the ridiculous face Aaron pulls when Robert suggests hot chocolate, if the next one gets your eyes everyone's in trouble, Liv blackmailing Maya so robron can afford a kid, and that damn snuggle on the couch.

- 22nd April: Robert finally gets a birthday!!!

- 7th May: the big night out flashback, which was super well done on the whole. Robron were flirting so badly, I'm married and rusty!! If I met you in a bar, I still would!! The Victoria story was heartbreaking and really well acted. The directing and lighting was so atmospheric as well.

- 25th July: the football team storyline was useless nonsense in the best way. This particular instance featured Robert and Victoria being adorable and goofy and I live forever on the crumbs of a friendship group it gave us.

- 6th August: Robert shamelessly lures his husband away from important accounts work with sex and surrogacy (not clickbait!). Robert and Aaron looking peak in grey and black, and getting lightly slut shamed by Diane. Beautiful stuff. Victoria gets all angsty as is her right and it ends in a lovely conversation where Robert gets really vulnerable about going to prison and giving Aaron something to look forward to.

- 10th October: mention of a classy anniversary trip! The clock ticking so loudly in their ears that they're doing everything possible before their time runs out. Most importantly, the family unit of Liv, Aaron, Robert, Victoria and Seb together properly for the last time. Robert really came so close to having it all.

- 17th October: what is it with the boys and that date in the woods? Though the runaway era was frustrating at times, there's no doubt that their chemistry was on full front here, and their reckless devotion was never more present. From their desperate last kiss to them imagining their dream life in France, it was magical. The perfect way to end their time pre-prison.

- 1st November: the best goodbye I could ever have hoped for, honestly. The details, from the pictures in Robert's prison cell to TWO plays of The Love We Stole. The banter about Aaron knowing the prison cook, the worry, the wedding rings, the moment Robert decides not to tell Aaron and to let him go. You're the best thing that ever happened to me, promise me you'll never forget. All the little touches and the hug that still has me in tears. Aaron being in the background as Robert leaves. The montage. It's so respectful and so important to their legacy. For 6 long years, I was ecstatic that this was the end. They did it right.

[scrapyardboyfriends]

I'm asking this to all my fave robron accounts because I'm going through it with them being back and can't stop reminiscing down memory lane as well as absolutely quaking with excitement at what's to come - what are your top 10 episodes from each year? I never actually made it to the end of the sl (stopped watching just after the proposal in july 2018) and am basically looking for motivation to see it through to the end for my next rewatch because I started to find it a bit of slog post reunion

Top 10 from each year? That's a lot to think about. Haha. Hmm..I'll give it my best shot. These are not going to be in ranked order by any means, probably more chronological.

2014/2015 1. Pre Affair Era where Aaron interrupts the Sugden family meal in the back room of the pub 2. The first kiss episode 3. The Upstairs now episode with Aaron trying to use Finn to make Robert jealous 4. Katie and Andy's Wedding with the swaying outside in their suits 4. Hotel 2 (but also Hotel 1 and also Boxing Day...there are too many good things in affair era okay and I refuse to choose) 6. Can I count Robert's whole wedding to Chrissie as one episode? 7. The Portacabin sex episode where Robert and Aaron are both helping on the farm 8. The Lodge/Affair reveal 9. Who Shot Robert, the episode where Andy and Robert play chicken 10. The episode where Robert gets Doug and co to back off of Chas after she stabs Diane and they have that exchange in the back room where Robert says "I'm your man".

honorable mention to Who Shot Robert in general and the Helicopter Crash, which didn't really have Robron but were just good episodes, oh and the connor episodes

This is why I voted for 2015 for the best year

2016 1. The abuse reveal to Robert 2. The episode before the one with the reveal to Chas where she goes to see Robert about Aaron and he tells her he can't say what's going on but that she should talk to Aaron 3. The abuse reveal to Chas 4. The episode where they go find Liv with bench hair! 5. The episode where they fix Vic's van and Robert puts on a suit for their date that doesn't happen. 6. The trial episode where Robert gives his testimony 7. Reunion 1.0 8. The episode where Liv locks them in the back room together so they can work things out and agree to move in together 9. Their SSW episode plus the thursday/friday episodes (shut up it counts as one) 10. Christmas

Honorable mention to the episode where Bernice tries to shave Chrissie's head and makes it Robert's problem and the Andy goodbye episode

2017 1. The January Fight 2. Wedding 1.0 (both episodes...it counts as 1) 3. The Prison Goodbye episode (honorable mention to the special episode they had that was the day in the life while Aaron was in prison, also the first prison visit) 4. The ons reveal 5. The break up episode(s) 6. The episode after the boxing where they have that little pub date 7. The episode at the hospital after Liv drinks the spiked whiskey 8. I hope my husband makes you very happy 9. The episode before Christmas where Robert is singing in the pub 10. Christmas

Honorable mention to the episode where they agree to go to the festival together for a moment and the episode with Seb's birth purely for the face journey Robert has during the whole hotel scene with Lawrence, oh and the episode after where Robert tries to leave and Aaron reverse pscyhologies him into staying

2018 1. The White's car crash 2. Valentine's Day 3. The episode where Aaron looks after Seb at the scrapyard 4. The episode before the reunion where Robert chats with Vic and Bernice at the salon and Alex moves in 5. Reunion 2.0 6. Proposal 2.0 (plus the episode after with the couch cuddling and the party) 7. the Carbon monoxide poisoning 8. Wedding 2.0 (honorable mention to the stag do with the karaoke) 9. The episode where Robert brings Seb back for Aaron, which I believe was bonfire night (also just all of the week they lost Seb to Rebecca leaving) 10. The episode where Robert watches Nicola's kids at the scrapyard and then tells Aaron he does want to do the surrogacy

2019 1. The episode where they watch Kyle and Isaac and Seb and the pig 2. The episode where Natalie agrees to be their surrogate (RIP surrogacy storyline) 3. The episode(s) where Charity and Robert are trying to scheme against a haulage client and Vanessa steals a car...badly and Robert and Aaron have to step in and fix it 4. Robert's Birthday 5. The Big Night Out purely for the Johnny Versace comment and the flirting over the chips, which might be in one of the flashbacks? Not sure. 6. The plea hearing 7. The episode where they steal and wreck Al's car 8. The on the run episode(s) particularly for the scenes in the woods and Aaron trying to hurl himself into oncoming traffic to get to Robert 9. The sentencing 10. The last prison visit goodbye with the montage

Honorable mention to the episodes leading up to the plea hearing where Robert tries to start the surrogacy again and then finds out he's being charged with GBH with intent and might get life

Okay so I cheated a lot but I tried. I wish you well on your rewatch. Just remember even though it all ends sadly, he's back now and they're inevitable!

[sugdendingle]

I'm so sad that Rob has had to go through even more trauma.😞 I wonder if people are actually going to care this time. Because it always felt like everyone else was allowed to have their struggles and trauma and was deserving of support for it except for Rob. I will especially never forgive the show for how everything with Rebecca was handled.

Just a reminder for people who don't remember how everything went down or for newbies who weren't in the fandom back then and also really because I feel like none of this gets talked about enough:

Rob was born and raised in Emmerdale and then left for a while when he was younger (look up Max King's death if you haven't seen those eps). He came back (in 2014) with his fiancé (Chrissie) and her father Lawrence to live at Home Farm. Chrissie had a sister named Rebecca who Rob cheated with before coming back to Emmerdale. Rebecca didn't show up in Emmerdale until 2016 though. By that time Chrissie and Robert were no longer together and Rob was with Aaron.

From from the moment Rebecca stepped foot in the village she kept trying to drive a wedge in between Robert and Aaron and kept trying to get Rob (back) in her bed. Except he kept turning her down because he loved Aaron and wanted to be with only Aaron. The only way she was able to get Rob to sleep with her was after Aaron had gone to jail (in 2017) and started using drugs and him and Rob had a big fight about it. Robert was distraught and thought their marriage was over. He went back to the mill and drank a whole bottle of whiskey and was basically fall down drunk. He didn't even remember contacting Rebecca by the time she showed up at the mill. He didn't tell her to come over either she chose to on her own after she heard Adam talking about how upset Rob was (in the pub). She knew he was drunk and upset and that him and Aaron had fought and she still chose to sleep with him. Worst of all she didn't even make sure that protection was used, which I think was on purpose.

When Rob talked about that night the next day and then again later when he told Aaron multiple things he said proved he wasn't sober enough to consent. He tells Rebecca maybe he thought it was what he wanted at the time but it wasn't. He tells Aaron that he must have passed out and his retelling of the events are spotty.

It just makes me angry anytime I think about all of that because I'm positive if the roles had been reversed and Rob had done to Rebecca what she did to him people would still be calling him an abuser (and rightfully so). All of this was just handled so badly by the show. I mean they even had Aaron (who is a survivor of abuse himself) say to Rob "don’t tell me you couldn’t have stopped it if you wanted" even though he knew Rob was drunk. And I don't bring that up as some way to hate on Aaron because that line always felt out of character for him. I mean look at how he was during the reunion episode (in 2018). He immediately asked Rob if something bad had happened (with Mike the chef) when he found him in the garage. So I feel like even as angry and upset as Aaron was when he found out about the Rebecca stuff he still wouldn't have said something like that.

That line they had Aaron say was just down right offensive to both of them. To have a survivor of child r*pe say something like you could have stopped it if you wanted to someone who was factually too drunk to consent is just all kinds of fcked up.

On top of everything Rebecca got treated like she was Rob's victim and had people both canonically on the show and in the fandom defending her. Even some Robron fans were defending her. Then she got to ride off into the sunset with Ross and Seb and got her happily ever after (even if they did eventually kill her off). Meanwhile Robron ended up split apart with Rob in prison for years. And I know that wasn't connected to her but it still pisses me off that she got to be happy when Robert and Aaron had so little time together.

It drives me crazy to hear how people talk about that storyline to this day. I hate seeing people talk about how Rob cheated on Aaron. Yes Rob has a history of cheating (it's how him and Aaron even started together). And maybe there was a part of him that was so hurt and angry that he did want to hurt Aaron that night by sleeping with Rebecca (he said as much to Aaron when he told him about what happened). But he also may not have gone through with it if he had a clear head. Rebecca knowing how drunk he was and still choosing to sleep with him anyway robbed him of his ability to say no.

I also can't see Rob consciously choosing to cheat on Aaron especially not with Rebecca of all people. He could have had Rebecca any time he wanted her but he didn't want her he wanted Aaron. When Aaron went to prison Rob fell apart to the point he couldn't even sleep in their bed without him. Rob has only ever loved one person as wholly and intensely as he loves Aaron. Rob is the king of self sabotage but I still don't think if he'd been sober he would have cheated.

I know some people probably don't want to think about Rebecca or that storyline and want it to just be dead and buried with her but I also feel like what happened to Rob wasn't given the attention it deserved by the show or the fandom at the time. I think a big part of that is because he's a guy and male SA victims aren't taken nearly as seriously as women are. I also think most people are under the impression that a women could never SA a man and that's just not true. It also has always bothered me that for a fandom that has always been so supportive of what Aaron went through and for a fandom that has a lot of people who relate to what Aaron went through that our same fandom wasn't as supportive of Rob nor as vocal about speaking up for him. I literally got sent hate back in the day for calling what happened between Rebecca and Rob assault.

Part of the reason I started thinking about all of this again is because of all the stuff coming up for Rob. Him getting drugged by a guy he goes out with. Trauma in prison that we don't know the full details of yet. I really hope that the show does right by him this time in how they handle all of this.

I'm also nervous for what's going to come out about what Rob endured in prison. I hope that it was just getting beat up (which is bad enough) I'm worried though that with how he reacted to being touched in his sleep that it could be something worse. Whatever happened in there I hope that Rob gets the support he deserves. He's gone through so much on his own and for all of the mistakes he's made he's been there so many times when his family and most of all Aaron have needed him. They better as hell be there for him now that he's the one going through stuff this time.

Thanks for reading my long ramble ❤️ (btw I made a gifset a while back about what happened to Rob that night that I'm pretty proud of. You can find it here.)

[rileychester]

Not gonna lie, after all the Robron stuff and Robert as his own as a character.

The thing I'm most looking forward to is Robert and Mack meeting and interacting.

Have been looking forward to that since Lawrence joined the show. And one of my first thoughts was that he reminds me so much of Robert. I was disappointed that Robert never got to meet and interact with Mack.

These two would get on like a house on fire, but also be constantly bickering.

It explains why a lot of people loved Aaron and Mack so much and were rooting for a romance there. I think their name together is Mackron. I think a lot of people were hoping that if Danny hadn't left that maybe Aaron and Mack would have happened, since Mack's sexuality was kinda up in the air since he's a massive flirt.

But anyway, I do think that Mack and Robert are going to get on swimmingly and not just because they both love Aaron and hate John.

[mackronrobron]

Robron has my heart so I'm thrilled to have Ryan back, but I do lowkey think Mack is the only other person Danny has had chemistry with since Ryan left. I did think the writers were building to pairing them back when Danny left the show and then again when he returned, but they're probably dead in the water again because of Roberts return. I can't be mad because Robron and I would rather they stayed friends then turned romantic just in time for to leave him for Robert anyway. I do wonder if thats why Danny gave that interview stressing Mack is straight as he knows they're not going there now.

Robron will always be my OTP on this show, I adore them with every fibre of my being. They’re incredible, they’re a mess, they’re a trainwreck you can’t look away from in the best way possible. Ryan coming back is just the cherry on top of some already incredible returns lately, namely Ross and Joe (I really do love Joe, he’s such a prick, it’s hilarious).

I do, however, concur that Lawrence Robb and Danny Miller have insane chemistry, hence why I’m a Mackron and Robron shipper. Even now, with this whole John bollocks, Mack’s face whenever he sees Aaron and John together? That is one jealous bisexual bitch, and I will die on that hill. If they had any balls, Charity would’ve gone back to Vanessa, and then Mack could’ve got with Aaron. Vanity and Mackron would’ve gone so fucking hard.

The thing with Danny’s Loose Women interview is that, had it come at literally any other time, I’d have said it was nothing more than a misdirect. But, with Ryan’s return, I really do think they’ll reunite Robron. Don’t get me wrong, I’m fucking loving the now very real prospect of a reunion, but my daydreams will forever include Mackron. Now, if they weren’t complete and utter cowards (and if this was a post-watershed show instead of pre-watershed), they’d give us MackRobRon. Because it’d be fucking incredible and we deserve it — two bisexual disasters and the biggest gay trainwreck in that entire village? Gimme.

[mybatimblog]

Sammy being that much older than Joey makes no sense: The Stuff That Isn't The Books (and some of what is)

We've all seen the recent (tragic) release of Sammy in the DCTL GN. Some people may find it appropriate to make Sammy a cranky old man-- but to be honest, nothing about him (besides crankiness) fits that. This isn't about his appearance, per say-- just about his age.

I might talk about his appearance later, but to be honest everyone has their own interpretation and I'm not here to gatekeep whether he has black or blond or even red hair-- so long as he doesn't look like Wilson's lost twin.

BTW the art itself is not the worst in the world. I'm strictly talking about the lack of attention to source material. Also please dont buy this book.

His voice actor (Aaron Landon) was 19 years old at the time of BATIMs release. Landon is very talented and Sammy's voice is actually quite smooth-- it sounds kind of ageless to me, but it's certainly not elderly.

It makes a lot more sense for Sammy to be younger than Joey because it plays into why Sammy stayed working for him in the first place. If Sammy is, say, in his 60s or 70s during DCTL, that man would've started working at Joey Drew Studios in his... what, 50s? 40s? Do they think a 50 year old Sammy Lawrence would be patient enough to agree and flow with a 30 year old Joey Drew?

Susie Campbell does not have a canon age, but she is estimated to be born anywhere from 1901-1910. Whether you ship them or not, there is evidence to suggest Sammy and Susie had a *thing* and it would be really, really weird if he was born in the late 1800s and they were still vibing like that. Real weird.

Now on to the written stuff.

Sammy's wiki has a canon age at the moment. He was born in 1903, and was 43 years old at the death of his human form. Joey drew was born in 1901.

(The Illusion of Living)Joey Drew met Sammy at a party celebrating Girl Crazy, which released in 1930. Sammy would have been 27. Joey would have been 29. Joey also saw Sammy playing at the Grand cinema when Sammy was a teenager, which plays into Sammy and Joey's early interactions and one of the reasons Joey wants him on the team so badly.

(DCTL) Buddy makes notice of people's age multiple times and would have done so with Sammy as well. He only notes Sammy as being very pointy (something the artists did not use) to the point that "being pointy" is enough of an identifier that Dot knows who he's talking about. No mention of age whatsoever despite mentioning it for multiple other characters.

Thats it for now... I may make a pt 2

[thelovetheystole]

Some various new spoilers and quotes...

Step one towards the secret prison storyline?

Maybe we can stop the 'hero complex' talk a little now please? All I see is him doing stuff 'cause he's either big mad or needs to big himself up.

Above is from from Lawrence's interview. I have issues with this, because 1) if Aaron is so in love, why doesn't he ever look it and 2) if Aaron really loves John, why physically bring Robert into this story? To torture him that another brother has taken his place..?

[whencyclopedia]

Battle of Crysler's Farm

The Battle of Crysler's Farm (11 November 1813) was a major battle in the War of 1812. Fought along the banks of the St. Lawrence River, it saw a British and Canadian force defeat a much larger American army, thwarting the United States' attempt to capture Montreal.

Battle of Crysler's Farm

Adam Sherriff Scott (Public Domain)

Background

By the autumn of 1813, the St. Lawrence Valley had been left largely untouched by the War of 1812, even though the conflict had been raging for over a year. This was partially because the Americans were focused on taking the Niagara Peninsula for political and strategic reasons, but also because David Parish, one of the largest landowners in the St. Lawrence region, had loaned millions of dollars to the Madison administration in the understanding that the US would leave the valley alone. For a while, Parish's bribes paid off, and the only action along the St. Lawrence were minor raids conducted by US Major Benjamin Forsyth and his riflemen, who attacked and plundered the Canadian settlements of Gananoque and Elizabethtown on their own volition. But by mid-1813, as the Americans fumbled their invasion of Niagara, they began to look at the St. Lawrence Valley as an enticing place to open a new front. After all, the river was a major supply line for British Canada, and its capture could allow the Americans to threaten vital Canadian outposts like Kingston or even Montreal.

Such an operation would be led by Major General James Wilkinson, who had recently replaced the outgoing General Henry Dearborn as commander of all US troops along the New York–Canadian frontier. To say that Wilkinson was controversial would be somewhat of an understatement. He was almost universally disliked; Winfield Scott, one of the army's up-and-coming officers, once said that serving under Wilkinson "was as disgraceful as being married to a prostitute" (quoted in Taylor, 281). Indeed, Wilkinson's reputation for treachery stretched back to the American Revolution, when he was implicated in the Conway Cabal, which had unsuccessfully tried to force General George Washington out of command. Since then, Wilkinson had undermined his superior officer, General Anthony Wayne, in the Fallen Timbers campaign of 1794, and had later plotted with Aaron Burr to illegally attack Mexico – when this conspiracy was uncovered in 1807, Wilkinson threw Burr under the bus to minimize his own involvement. To top it all off, Wilkinson was secretly in the pay of the Spanish, having promised to promote their interests in the American West. His detestable reputation stretched well beyond his own lifetime; President Theodore Roosevelt would later say of Wilkinson that "in all our history, there is no more despicable character" (nps.gov).

The fact that a man like Wilkinson had been given such an important command was a testament to the lack of experienced general officers in the US Army. In late August, he arrived at the military camp at Sackets Harbor, New York, where, despite his unsavory reputation, he was cheered by the men. "General Wilkinson has infused new spirit into the troops at this post," reported one captain. "He inspired a degree of confidence in every officer and soldier that I never saw equaled" (quoted in Taylor, 279). The reason for this outpour of jubilation was because the soldiers were in desperate need of hope – under the sluggish leadership of their previous commander Dearborn, they had suffered defeat after defeat and, moreover, were undersupplied and poorly trained, lacking enough officers to properly drill them. What was worse was that they were suffering from disease caused by their tainted food supply; for weeks now, the men had been subsisting on rotten meat, stagnant water, and bread that was found to have been mixed with bits of soap, lime, and even fecal matter. By September, 700 officers and men were incapacitated by illness, and a month later, that number had doubled. The men, therefore, hoped that this change in command would lead to a change in fortune and would save them from their wretched condition.

James Wilkinson, c. 1820

John Wesley Jarvis (Public Domain)

Shortly after his arrival in Sackets Harbor, Wilkinson met with US Secretary of War John Armstrong, Jr., to concoct a plan. While it was agreed that Wilkinson would lead his 8,000-man army down the St. Lawrence River, the two men disagreed as to their target; Armstrong preferred an attack on Kingston, which housed the main British naval base on Lake Ontario, while Wilkinson advocated for the riskier – yet more glorious – assault on Montreal. The successful capture of Montreal, Wilkinson argued, would sever the British supply line and cut the Canadian provinces in two. Armstrong ultimately relented, viewing the plan with a great deal of optimism. "If our cards are well played," he told Wilkinson, "We may renew the scenes of Saratoga" (quoted in Taylor, 283).

Continue reading...

[petebarton]

Yes defo Katie if not Aaron as do believe she was one significant person before aaron (even though was mainly one up on andy)

and sammy and karl's chemistry.... too. i really think she was the one for robert went karl played him, but aaron the one, when rob did.....

i also kind like rob and chrissie chemistry when they fought, also kind like bex and robert chemistry as flirty friends (screw them ruin by having bex as some hung up ex/the ons)

also liked robert and both harding sister's lmao leyla's i not been introduced to robert to Katie. and flirting with him sorta and alicia and robert flirty friendship though he was doing it to annoy Katie like. ryan robert seemed have chem with nearly everyone lol. like even finn and lawrence. but Katie was og robert's true love before aaron imo.

Karl and Sammy's chemistry was out of this world. I truly believe if Karl Davis had agreed to come back as Robert and they didn't re cast. Robert and Katie would have had affair 2.0 and most likely would have been endgame. But instead with got Ryan Hawley, and robron, so if anything we didn't loose, we won. But it'll always be a what if, in another timeline!

Re Chrissie, I think Ryan and Louise did have chemistry, but it was eclipsed by Danny and Ryan. As for Robert and Bex, I preferred them as ex's who were now just friends. Them sleeping together was unfortunate because I enjoyed them giving Robert a friend, and I think Ryan and Emily played off each other well. Even if Emily wasn't the best actress.

But yes, when you think about who Robert truly loved. It comes down to Katie and Aaron. The rest don't really factor in. Like I said, she was his first, and Aaron is his last.

[no-goodbyes-no-regrets]

whatever the outcome I’d really like to ask the writing team why they chose to write them as barely tolerating each other rather than a couple in love. Why John wanted nothing to do with Vic and harry. Surely it would have been way more impactful when the truth comes out had they actually written him as a great boyfriend- brother-uncle.

true... but I'm kind of glad he's such a creepy weirdo. NONE of Aaron's relationships post Robert have worked - both story and chemistry wise.

There was Ben - the guy he bullied when they were kids. And it was during covid so they couldn't even touch for most of the time... until Meena took care of that problem.

There was Marco off screen in Italy - and they broke up because he couldn't deal with Aaron mourning his sister... or something idk (dodged a bullet there mate!)

and now "John Sugden" - Robert's half brother... which was an issue for about .05 seconds and then he became everyone's hero and proposed in the least romantic way in the history of forever... and Aaron said yes because he's convinced himself he loves the guy - when he's most likely a serial killer.

If Emmerdale had any sense they'd get Mack and Aaron together after this. Danny and Lawrence work well together, they get on well, their characters have chemistry, Mack used to flirt with Aaron all the time (and still does when they're allowed to interact) it would be fun and light-hearted for both characters and the potential for inter dingle drama (Aaron sleeping with Charity's husband) and drama if (when!!) they can get Ryan/Robert back.

[scrapyardboyfriends]

I feel like I'm good at mostly ignoring this story until I catch up on the show and then I have to rant about it so....

the rant...

Obviously the premise of this story was already bad from the conception of John as a character. It was already kind of lazy and one single character was not going to rebuild the Sugden family anyway.

But every decision they've made since that character conception has been more baffling than the next really.

Because they could have just told a straightforward story about Vic finding a long lost Sugden brother and him coming to the village and getting to know Vic and Harry and Sarah and meeting Aaron and them trauma bonding over his army past and them getting together after that even though the Robert of it all is weird and maybe causes some surface level angst because god forbid they actually do anything with that.

And like...that would have been pretty dull and boring but it would have been a vaguely functional story.

Instead, they've been promoting this story like it's this big A story with Aaron sleeping with his ex husband's brother and being seduced by the Sugden charm and having sizzling passion overtake them all the time etc etc. And then on screen they're always like the D story and half the time you wouldn't even know what the scenes are trying to get across if you hadn't read the spoilers.

And then they keep missing out on actual story by going surface level with any of the Robert mentions, by not giving anyone any kind of motivations realistic or otherwise and constantly undercutting any potential drama before it even happens.

They've paralleled a bunch of random Robron affair scenes for no apparent reason other than to vaguely remind the viewers of Robert and Robron cause they want it to be dramatic but then it's not in the actual story and because they think that's all it takes to sell a romance story for Aaron? Unclear.

They've really done very little with the Robert mentions other than get them in there so they can put his name in magazines. But Aaron seems to have gotten over it all very quickly around the time John "kissaulted" him in the barn.

Their entire relationship thus far is based on sex. They've never even tried to have a conversation about anything else. Certainly not on screen. Aaron appears to have feelings according to the spoilers but we've seen very little evidence of it on screen and they haven't given any reason why he might like John. John is just blank. And I don't even feel the sexual attraction or sexual chemistry between them in any way because they have to sell it by John constantly telling him "I know what you want" etc. So I just have no clue why they're even doing this.

Then you have Vic who's stalking him because she's desperate for family, which I get but also he's kind of mostly been an asshole to her but that doesn't matter cause he's family and she must have it.

Then you have Mack who they created this animosity between him and John out of thin air for no apparent reason to the point that Lawrence doesn't even know why his character hates John.

And then they have Vic catch them in the barn and then tell everyone so you can have Mack be all weirdly jealous and tell Aaron he deserves better and have Aaron lie to him about still seeing John and lie to Vic because she doesn't want them to date so they won't break up and John won't leave.

And like fine I guess.

But then you do this fire story and have John be the big hero and now Chas is fawning all over him when before she had some minor reservations and you have Mack thanking him for saving his life.

So is Mack still going to be that upset when he finds out Aaron and John are still loosely a thing? I feel like they totally undercut that bit of future drama. I guess he can be upset Aaron lied to him but he's gonna be mad for like one scene and then everyone will move on.

And then is it going to be that dramatic when Vic finds out and has...*checks notes* the exact same reaction as before most likely?

Where is the story?

There isn't one.

And it's not like when Robert and Aaron's affair was discovered and Robert's whole marriage imploded and then eventually he worked his way back to Aaron and they got together properly.

Aaron and John are already basically together?? I guess?? Like there's nothing stopping them. It's not like there's any story in them getting together properly after they're discovered again and everyone has their very tepid reactions?

Sigh.

And then there's the Aiden Moore mystery they threw in there, which everyone has mostly guessed will be someone he lost in the army.

And is that supposed to explain his whole character and why he pushes everyone away? Cause he lost one person in the army?

Stacked up next to the trauma porn king, Aaron Dingle?

John tells Aaron about losing Aiden and Aaron's like "Yeah I can relate" and John's like, "Really, you lost someone too?"

And Aaron's like "Yeah take your pick. You want the boyfriend who got hit by a train and was paralyzed who then made me help him die and then I was on trial for his murder and started self harming? You want the boyfriend who was killed by the local serial killer and then my sister was arrested for it cause she was drinking so much at the time she couldn't remember if she'd killed him? You want that same sister who was then killed in a storm by a falling caravan that I probably could have stopped if I'd told people about my mom having an affair? And that's not even getting into the Robert of it all and what losing him did to me. Or there's you know my whole childhood wrecked by my father abusing me or my traumatic coming out and suicide attempt."

And John's just gonna be there all...

Just...like...I'm sorry...his little traumatic army past is not going to hold a candle to Aaron's litany of traumas or explain enough why he is the way he is.

And then what...they trauma bond. People find out they're still sleeping together and are vaguely bothered about it for one scene and then they're just...together?

Just what is the point of it all?

Why create all of these obstacles to them being together to then not actually really use any of them?

And then is Oliver going to want to leave in a year and then it's all for nothing anyway?

Sigh....sigh...sigh...

[torturedromantic099]

Anytime I get to watching heart wrenching storylines like Reb*cca, or Robert turning himself in, I find that going back to crack storylines - like Robert gaslighting Lawrence into thinking they slept together,- is a good palette cleanser.

What I love/hate about how everything went down about Robert going to prison and cutting Aaron off is that there’s no clear bad guy here. I can’t hate Robert or Aaron for the choices they made then, or the choices they are making now.

It’s kind of stressful because it might have been easier to have someone to blame rather than feeling bad for the both of them. But also, it’s kinda amazing and beautifully painful and exactly what I imagine love ought to be like -making tough and painful choices for people that you love and, at some point soon hopefully, forgiveness and understanding even when your heart has been ripped out by this person.

[pinkelephanti]

One aspect of the John storyline that I do find quite fascinating are the parallels between John and Robert. I mean, the first thing we ever see Robron do together is set up a confidence trick with a 'hero' play so Robert can win the approval of Lawrence. This is very similar to how John sets up his saviour moves as well, although Robert doesn't need it psychologically like John does it was just to further his goals. He does also use the same tactics a few more times with Lawrence and the Whites over the years. I have to wonder if that's intentional and if it will help Robert work out what's going on.

The Robron part of this is delicious too, because Aaron has been aware of who Robert is and what he's capable of ever since the beginning, but he's never tried to do that to him, all Robert's heroics have been genuine. But John who he thinks is this safe dependable guy who loves him has been conning him and his family for months. I think it will take a lot for Aaron to accept that realisation.

This is my current Robron song btw

[actual-exhusbands]

"After reading Ryan's interview, particularly the part about working with Lawrence"

Sorry to intrude, but I was wondering if you could expand on this, because I haven't managed to find the interview in question and I'm desperate for Mack/Robert interaction crumbs!

I've been so frustrated with the way they use Mack and Aaron's friendship (and Mack himself tbh) for plot reasons only to then drop it for long stretches of time, especially when it makes no sense to do so, e.g. the way he was sidelined during the wedding was bad enough, but we don't even get a single scene of Charity telling him bout the gatecrashing, or him ribbing Aaron about it?? They're meant to be besties but they never even interact outside of major plot events! I guess it's just part of the overall criticism I've seen a lot of ppl make bout Emmerdale forgetting/neglecting the smaller, every day interactions and connections that make the village feel more lived in and keep you more engaged with characters/relationships.

And I really hope he/the writers haven't completely dropped his anti-John agenda - I could've sworn, during the Moira injury scenes, that there were moments when it looked like he was putting 2+2 together, how this was all a little too convenient, and I thought maybe his gratitude to John was going to be a facade, but apparently not! Plus it would be so much more interesting (not to mention entertaining!) if Robert had Mack as his flirty fanboy sidekick during the takedown rather than have him be the sole voice of dissent. Give us the diabolical designs and snarky shenanigans we deserve!

Sorry for the late reply as I have been scouring all the way through all the tags trying to find that specific interview but to no avail I'm afraid.

I read it on a post on here including a screenshot of the interview, however, it also included a link to the article. I'm pretty sure it was from the Metro although it could have also been the Daily Mirror.

Basically, Ryan was talking about what it has been like to be back on Emmerdale. He mentions it's been real fun to work with everyone again but adds that he's enjoyed working with new people and building up new dynamics with the likes of Lawrence Robb (Mackenzie Boyd) and William Ash (Caleb Milligan). He also mentioned how he hasn't filmed any scenes with Beth Cordingly (Ruby Milligan) but thinks her character and Robert will be an interesting duo if they ever get the chance to team up.

I agree with you 100% on the whole Mackenzie front. I'm holding onto hope that Emmerdale hasn't decided to drop Mack's anti-john agenda as we still haven't seen that scene of Mack running frantically. I get the feeling with Robert now back in the village permanently John will start to lose control and make the odd slip up and slowly leave clues behind which Robert and/or Mack pick up on. Maybe Mack follows a lead and is running to or from it. Whatever it is; I hope it's a plan both Robert and Mackenzie worked on together but something goes wrong and Robert warns Mack to flee before John learns of their meddling.

Plus, I'd love to see Aaron's face if he walked into the pub and found Robert and Mackenzie platonically flirting and joking with one another as he sits at the bar alone watching them both over his pint not jealous at all.