#and noelle joins them only in ch2..?

[marsbotz]

okay so like…. the crystals 100% show the prophecy ACTUALLY playing out right..

[ignbe-realistic]

Small little post for my deltarune predictions so I can look back on this and say that I called it or laugh about how bad they are LOL

((spoilers I guess?))

Chapter 5

This is the festival chapter. I predict that a fountain is going to be opened in the middle of the town in the festival, and ALL of the town and people will be drawn into the dark world. But they don’t really know and suspect much because it’s a festival? And they just think that the town put more into production this year. So the chapter is gonna be balancing all the actual enemies and closing the fountain while also keeping the townsfolk safe and blissfully unaware.

Bonus points if the big bad guy is a magician and that’s how they explain everything looking different in the dark world. EXTRA points if the town folk just love this guy to bits.

Subplot where Kris and Susie have to disguise Ralsei so the townsfolk don’t get suspicious so they are just constantly swapping hats or throwing him into bushes whenever someone from the town comes up to them.

Also subplot where Noelle and Berdley discover that ch2 wasn’t a dream like they thought and confront our heroes and/or join them.

Also I could see it where you are conveniently “just missing” interacting with certain people like Asgore, Carol, even Sans, because their dark world forms would reveal something.

(Another side note, I know like NOTHING about weird routes actual lore cause I wasn't caught up on chapter 2 stuff when it came out, but I've heard people say that weird route might end in chapter 5?? If the dark fountain consumes the whole town like I think it will then that means berdley will become an icicle again in the hospital. I could see a confrontation by the knight or asgore or someone if they recognize the ice crystal and know something deeper about the whole "the end begins with ice magic" plotline. But this is mostly me spouting, I don't know too much about where weird route could go.)

-----

General Predictions

Susie’s definitely gonna have a plot point at some point where she realizes one of them, either her or ralsei, isn’t apart of the prophecy. Then she’ll have a whole “what am I if not a hero?” Really depressed subplot before bouncing back and realizing that she has hope!! And can make her own path even if it’s not explicitly written in the prophecy.

—

ALSO I would not be shocked if the end of the prophecy has less to do with one of them dying and more about the ending of the dark world. For example if the only way to save the world was to seal the final connection and get rid of the dark world forever, but would mean “ending” Ralsei and Lancer and all other darkners. And that’s what Susie can’t accept.

Conversely, I could also see it being that the only way for the world to be saved is for the heroes themselves to be trapped in the dark world forever. Sealed unable to return to the light world.

—

Now I’ll admit I don’t fully understand the whole Dess is the knight theory, I think it’s more likely to be Carol. Since that’s who’s calling Kris. So that’s my tiny prediction, it’s Carol. Maybe lol

Even if it's not Carol, I really don't think Dess being the knight lines up entirely, I'd need more info to be convinced, since it means that Kris is conspiring with both the Knight (Dess) and Carol either separately or together. We'll see.

—

Way further down the line I could also see a plot point where Kris and the Soul are fully split up, and how it’s the soul, Susie, and Ralsei vs Kris and the knight. And as the Soul we get a chance to control Susie, but the whole time she’s making snide comments about our choices like “(I really don’t want to read this)” or “(Dear god PLEASE don’t make me talk to Alphys)”, things like that. Then she gains sympathy for Kris and uses that to get through to them, like a fight scene where Susie yells: “I know how it feels now! To have control taken from you. To be forced to do things you don’t want to! To be a puppet to the Soul!” And their words will reach Kris and stuff.

—-

Ok that’s it for now I might make more predictions later but these are my main ones!! WOO

[susellesie]

One of the most heartbreaking parts of the Snowgrave route to me isn't the monsters running away, nor any of the big events that take place, necessarily.

It's when Noelle tells Berdly to r͟u͟n͟ a͟w͟a͟y͟.

That is the first time in the entire Snowgrave route where Noelle shows any opposition to Kris's orders. Not when she's freezing people to death, not when ordered to kill for a ring. At no point does she do anything other than panic and reassure herself this is correct. So what does it?

Berdly, and the impending reality he's going to die.

And this one line, to me, is what breaks me because it reveals so much about Noelle's internal monologue. It a) proves Noelle knows on, at least some level, knows her actions through iceshock are lasting, dangerous, and possibly fatal. b) proves she has in some capacity ignored this reality to avoid what reality awaits if she disobeys Kris.

Noelle's character is so interesting to me because there is the impression that she is so good and nice she couldn't fathom hurting others- but we can see this clearly happens in the Snowgrave route. She chooses to stay with Kris. She chooses to follow their orders to freeze people. Is there something to be said about the emotional manipulation she's put through throughout the route? Absolutely. In no way is this mainly Noelle's fault, but regardless it is a decision she makes to stay with Kris.

And so through all this- through the gruesome reality of snow-frozen monsters littering the city- the only one that can get through to her is Berdly. Everyone else Noelle has frozen are monsters she doesn't know, and who she will never have to know. There's not a second thought behind her actions, except for this one instance.

So she tells Berdly to run, and he doesn't, and then it's gone. Like any ability she has to effect this outcome is gone. She is the one casting the spells, and yet her expressions and dialog are just... resigned. By the end of it, with Berdly dead, she can't even bring herself to accept the reality of her own actions.

And now, for the crux of what this extremely long post is about; Noelle's childhood trauma. I've talked about this before, but Noelle grows up alongside a neglectful mother, and a father who excuses her actions. I've also talked before about how at some point, presumably after Dess goes missing, Noelle loses basically all of her friends. That being Dess, Asriel, and Kris. And who ends up replacing that hole? Berdly.

I believe the crux of Noelle's helplessness and actions in ch2 Snowgrave result from fear of abandonment. Once anyone will accept her- Kris- she's immediately latched on, despite any and all actions from them. Kris is different from Queen + Berdly because they represent someone who loves Noelle for who she is, at least in Noelle's perception of Kris. Queen and Berdly both want something from Noelle- and when she joins Kris's party, the only memory she has of them is from childhood- when it was Kris, and not the player in control. Kris doesn't need to use Noelle- the player does.

Noelle is, first and foremost, terrified to be alone. But secondly, also desires to be wanted unconditionally; for who she is. It's why Noelle will stay with Queen when Kris is not available, and it's why she stays around Berdly. But when given the option between people like Susie and Kris, versus Berdly or Queen, Noelle knows which ones she will pick.

So once she's already made her choice of staying with Kris, the realization of her actions are too little, too late. The risk is too high- the consequences are too large. Noelle does not want to know what happens when she is left alone: and that fear drives her through the Snowgrave route.

[everysongineverykey]

I'M DONE. HERE. TAKE THESE CHAPTER 2 THOUGHTS AND RUN, BABY.

so i'll try to go in order here. uhhhh... there's a LOT i have to say. first: toriel giggling sprite my beloved

on that note, ALL THE NEW SUSIE SPRITES MY BELOVEDS

NOELLE YOU'RE SO GAY. I THINK THIS IS PROBABLY JUST BECAUSE I TOLD HER TO IN CHAPTER ONE BUT SHE GAVE SUSIE THE LUNCHBOX FULL OF CHALK!! I LOVE ITTTT

ralsei's, uh... kinda sus. the whole "recruiting" thing REALLY sketches me out. and he looks kinda... smug, all the time, like he knows what's going on.

LANCER JOINED! ROUXLS JOINED EVEN THOUGH NO ONE WANTED THAT! STARWALKER JOINED, TO EVERYONE'S JOY!

LIBRARY PORTALLLL

so before i entered the city there was that pre-city area? that looked very much like the city? except it had different music? and i thought they'd cut welcome to the city and i was SEVERELY disappointed. but then they didn't! just something i wanted to mention

NOELLE!!

throughout this game i went from despising berdly to feeling bad for him to not really liking him again, but not hating him as much as before. he'd better stay the fuck away from susie though

the queen is the best villain. she's the kind you love to hate! she's literally so funny AND her boss battle is actually tough (rip to the king but he just. wasn't a formidable enemy at all lol)

THE GANG CHARLIE BROWN DANCING TO WIN A FIGHT! SUSIE GAINING THE POWER TO ACT THROUGH SHEER FORCE OF WILL! SUSIE FORCING RALSEI TO LEARN TO ACT EVEN THOUGH HE DIDN'T WANT TO! THAT ENTIRE BATTLE WAS AMAZING! THE "BATTLE WON" END DANCING SEQUENCE! GOING INSANE GOING INSANE

the puzzles in this chapter were genuinely really impressive! i especially loved the word search puzzles and the ice-ee undertale word search reference💙

that being said. the mouse puzzles were SO fucking infuriating. i caused poor noelle a LOT of grief with those and i feel bad.

SPEAKING OF NOELLE!! the scene where she and kris are walking through the puzzle, the one that spells "december", and she's talking about when they were kids, how she loved sneaking out? beautiful. the cinnamon tography <3 also i guessed dess's full name was december a while ago and while i guess it was obvious, it's nice to have that confirmed!

also, i love that susie and ralsei are real friends in this chapter! he taught her a healing spell!!

ugh. fucking berdly. so smug and pretentious. i love queen's desire to be as far away from him as possible though

i also like his backstory. it gives his behavior, even if it's still annoying, at least some context. i get the feeling of feeling like if you're not smart, people will forget about you, and that's scary.

ALSO ALSO. GAMER BERDLY. LITERALLY EVERYTHING ABOUT THAT IS PERFECT. "I THOUGHT YOU WERE A GAMER!" "i only play mobile games, berdly." "NOOOOOO!" like i ADORE that

anyways. time for me to talk about the only thing that matters in this world: suselle. i mean, did the gays win in this chapter or DID THE GAYS WIN IN THIS CHAPTER?? THEY RODE A HEART-COVERED FERRIS WHEEL AND HAD A HEARTFELT, TENSION-FILLED CONVERSATION!

"did you ever wonder why the real susie never picked on you? well, maybe it's because... when you were both new to class, you lent her one of your pencils, like... maybe a dumb one with candy canes on it or something, and... even though it didn't actually taste like candy, she... remembered your smile." okay god thanks toby it's not like i needed my heart or anything

SERIOUSLY. TOBY "i'm gonna give the gays everything they want" FOX IS BACK WITH ANOTHER BANGER LADS

QUEEN'S BOSS BATTLE! ACTUALLY TOUGH, UNLIKE KING'S! AND GIGA QUEEN! I'M GOING INSANE THAT WAS SO SICK AND SO HARD

the way my heart BROKE when lancer turned to stone good god thank GOD our boy's okay

AND ROUXLS KAARD IN HIS PIRATE DUCK!! WITH HIS LITTLE HAT! DEMANDING THE QUEEN MAKE HIM BUTLER SUPREMETH! I LOVE HIM MORE THAN LIFE ITSELF

also!! kris and ralsei's little moment on the swan boat💙 i wasn't a kralsei shipper before but uh... that may be starting to change

it's hard because ralsei's still suspicious but at the same time i love him and want him to be happy. i don't know how to feel

also, if darkners outside of their dark worlds turn to stone after a while, why didn't ralsei? that's, uhhh... VERY sus. very weird. mr fox i need ANSWERS

WE FINALLY HAVE A WAY TO SAVE AFTER WE'VE FINISHED MOST OF THE EPILOGUE LADS. REJOICE!!

seriously the thing that peeved me about ch1 was that the last save point was on the battle stage and if i wanted to play the epilogue again, i had to. do that entire battle all over. BUT NOW THAT'S BEEN FIXED!!

UNDYNE AND ALPHYS HAVE MET UNDYNE AND ALPHYS HAVE MET THIS IS NOT A DRILL UNDYNE GAVE HER A BOX OF CANDIES EVERYBODY SHUT UP THEY'RE IN LOVE ALL IS RIGHT WITH THE WORLD

ALSO! NEAR THE BEGINNING! I FORGOT TO MENTION THE LITTLE WHITE DOG DOING DONUTS IN A TOY RACE CAR AND BACKING UP TRAFFIC! THANK YOU LITTLE WHITE DOG!

on that note: "looks like a car. this one has a man in it. he waves at you happily." AND THEN THE MAN'S GONE??? HEY TOBY???

ALSO. THE SEGMENT WHERE THE ANNOYING DOG HELPS US FIND THE KEY THROUGH THE POWER OF WANTON DESTRUCTION. THE BEST PLOT DEVICE!

TORIEL TEACHING SUSIE TO MAKE PIE STOP ITTTTT

and yes yes i KNOW kris slashed toriel's tires. that was extremely troubling. but THEY MADE PIE TOGETHER!!

"leave the chalk alone, kris" TORIEL!!

sans and toriel making egg puns and asgore running in and going "don't forget me, your eggs-husband!" is the FUNNIEST sitcom moment type thing ever. GOD.

on the other hand sans let me meet your brother god dammit i'll kill you

METTATONNNNNNN

RUDY... "who got you these flowers?" "is it weird for a married man to get flowers?" "so your wife did?" "oh, no! kris's dad did!" "...not even gonna try to understand this..." TOBY STOP ITTTT YOU'RE GIVING THE ASGORUDY SHIPPERS FALSE HOPE. YOU KNOW YOU'RE JUST GONNA KILL RUDY. YOU'RE JUST RUBBING SALT IN THE WOUND!

NUBERT! MY MAN!

seeing kris repeatedly they-themmed by multiple characters makes me so happy <3 poor kid... "college summer vacation when" "you opened the door with your eyes closed. you saw nothing" kris....

KRIS...

fucking. BLACK FOG STORM IN THE LIVING ROOM KRIS STOP IT. HOW'RE THEY GONNA REVEAL THIS WAS INNOCENT? THE KNIFE IN CHAPTER ONE WAS EASY BUT HOW WILL THEY EXPLAIN THIS

the staticy tv appearing in the dark and a toothy smile slowly fading into view in the center and lingering there ominously for far too long >>>>>>> every hollywood horror movie ever god. GOD

snowy and monster kid checking out the red door. implying there's something in there. something that kris knows about. knowing we won't get any more deltarune content for 5+ years does NOT fill me with determination

also. gaster's symbolic theme being mus_smile. and the final image in the game being a smile. god. gaster's COMING lads.

onionsan hears a song at night... a familiar song... memory, perhaps? or maybe a certain... four-note arpeggio that's hidden in a sound test room in undertale? who knows? guess we'll just have to wait for chapters 3/4/5.

this concludes my ramblings for now, but don't get it twisted- this is FAR from the last post i'll make about ch2. this whole chapter was absolutely amazing! brilliant! showstopping!! i'm genuinely soooo super impressed and excited for the chapter 3/4/5 bundle!!!

[mymarifae]

I *hope* berdly isnt reduced to a sideline character in future chapters he's funny and i think it'd be funny if he joined kris's party at some point so i hope he comes back to the dark world at some point...what do u think??

nah there's definitely like. too much work put into him for him to just be a background character in the end. he's got a little voice, dialogue box sprites, and there are a few unused sprites in the game files soooo. (although the comedy of this much unique work being put into an ultimately background character is. well. that would be funny. completely impractical tho)

i don't think the existence of snowgrave or even the neutral route means anything here. he's not going to be MIA in future chapters regardless of what you chose to do. there's just going to be several routes, and as we get more chapters and meet new characters and have new situations presented to us, the number of possible differences will only increase. kinda like a fun little contrast to undertale, which has a lot of different endings. deltarune (supposedly!) only has one, but you sure do have a lot of ways to get there

i'm 200% positive berdly and noelle will return to the dark world at some point. probably not ch3. but Soon. and i'm slightly less sure about this, but i wanna say that their whole class is going to be dragged into the dark world and then like. consistently be a part of it

berdly and noelle are walking away thinking of cyber world as a dream for now but man. what a weird fucking dream right? so vivid... so real. and if either of them mentions anything about it, they'll figure out the truth pretty fast. but that aside? the lie about it being a dream was entirely susie's doing. kris seems to really want people to know about the dark worlds!!!! idk if they'd tell noelle or berdly outright, just because that's a little boring, but i could see them dropping cryptic hints and letting them figure it out on their own

so ya. berdly's coming back in a pacifist route for suresies. i'm a bit uncertain about how his hurt arm will play into it, and i don't feel like contemplating snowgrave rn. and you're right bestie. it would be fucking hilarious if he joined kris's party. because he's a slightly uncooperative jerk (*pinches his cheeks*)

BUT

i'm not sure if this will happen? i'm kinda leaning towards No, and i'm saying this from a gameplay standpoint. the only scenario where he could realistically be a part of kris's party is if susie cannot be in the party, but ralsei or noelle can. otherwise, party set-up will be a mess

in ch1, your party is pretty much just kris and ralsei, but this is fine. you have kris, the leader and actor, and you have ralsei, the healer and back-up actor. works perfectly for a peaceful run! you can fight everyone, but once susie leaves, this gets tedious. because susie is the heavy hitter of the party

in ch2, kris and noelle function as a party for any possible route because noelle is a healer AND can be a heavy hitter, if you're a maniac. kris does fine damage on their own, but they aren't notably super strong, and they're easily overwhelmed (see: spamton's fight in snowgrave). think about how annoying and tedious battles get when kris is on their own after susie drags ralsei off. kris isn't like. built to face battles alone

from what i can tell, berdly would be a heavy hitter! which feels a little insane to say because it's berdly. but he seems to have potentially really powerful elemental magic similar to noelle And he has a two-handed weapon that he knows how to use for some fucking reason. if he and susie are in kris's party at the same time, the gameplay balance would be all kinds of messed up. also i think susie might end up clocking him in the face

hell, putting him on the same team as noelle might also be a balance issue. because noelle isn't just a healer, and iceshock does lot of damage even at its lowest levels. but like, for sure? susie would have to be out of the picture but ralsei/noelle are not. which strikes me as really strange. unless she and noelle go have a date and then kris is stuck with ralsei and berdly, there's not a lot of scenarios that would explain a total susie disappearance... positive scenarios anyway and i dont like that ^^

[p2iimon]

okay heres the post about deltarune. spoilers. lol

the sprites are so good. susie and ralsei make such great faces

noelle gave susie chalk and was that bc i chose the hanging out alone in the closet option?? bc that wasnt in the stream

ralsei shows more skin in this one

susie and lancers high five lmaooo

anyone else notice that rudinn who calls it the [savename]town (i dont remember which name that one is. i think its the name you choose for yourself the one on the save? anyway)

the king like “well i wasnt really gonna throw him” like lancer definitely was just unaffected. like emotionally

kris’s castle bedroom makes me think of asriel,,,, like. the trophys on the shelf,,, and the stars? idk

did the original starwalker only come bc i talked to them in chapter one or does that happen for everyone

i TOTALLY called berdly everyone was like “yall think noelle isnt gonna be a main character? hm?” but like ignoring berdly. even with the soul theory its like “kris is cyan and ralsei is green and noelle is orange and susie is purple and lancer is blue and who knows with yellow its a mystery” it was always berdly

also i thought hed be. a little better. like he did not get that much better.

how much choice is there to join berdly. dont tell me im gonna check myslef

i always feel bad for hurting the characters bc im bad at video game but especially noelle blaming kris for the mouse thing. no i swear. they dont want to do this. well. not this obnoxiously at least.

being alone for the like. 5 minutes was terrible. theyre so lonely :(

noelle doesnt want to call kris her friend which is sad both if its bc she doesnt think theyre close enough or if its bc she doesnt like them that much

mettatons dress !

spamton was weird i liked him though. it looks like im missing something though. i was alone the one time i saw him,,,, so,,,,

so ralsei why did lancer turn into a statue but YOURE fine. weirdo. freak. evil liar.

i wish i made the duck i was like “im NOT gonna make the duck this time ive never seen anyone not make the duck” but it wouldve been better if i did

SUSIE. TAIL. the whole thing was cute though

i cant believe berdly is only into gamer lesbians. rip

this was about the point i realized,,, noelle hardly changed color and berdly DIDNT so ?????????? what

ralsei is like “you know that will horribly kill everyone right?? you fucking idiots?” NO WE DID NOT????? HUH???? this fucker

at this point i put, and i quote “kris is the knight and if i end up being right all of you owe me $50 ive thought there was some connection since day 1 bc !!! kris is a knight and why!! would there be kris the knight who is also a weird human and The Knight who makes the fountain and the fountains benifit kris so !!!” we will address this later

why is kris uncomfortable with seeing other humans :(

it does confirm monsters arent buried, its symbolic and probably religious considering the location, but that doesnt answer all the questions about blood and monsters and humans and souls and stuff.

it ISNT a good thing that asriel felt the need to confess his sins. but it is funny.

what ! happened ! in ! the ! bunker ! kris !

its good to see shyren :)

i said this on instagram before ch2 came out but like fuck no napstablook is not a cop you cant. no. undyne? i get why he chose undyne. asgore even. like bad move but i understand? but napstablook? that is a snail farmer

the grocery store is bigger than grillbys. hey sans w

also Fucking Are You Serious Sans I Have Been Waiting To See Papyrus For 3 Years And You Say Not Today For Fucking What

also asgore! in that whole scene! wow! please stop talking. fucking “onky donky”

maddy and mettaton and napstablook all live in that little house. and also maddy calls them blooky. and i dont WANT to wait for tomorrow to talk to mettaton again i want to talk NOWW tomorrow is in YEARS and costs MONEY

onionsan called them hyper-potato-mouse even though i chose kris and i know i chose kris bc i did it today

whatever happened in the bathroom there. “they do this sometimes” uh hey. why.

anyway all of you owe me $50 gn

[orbees]

okay so most of yall saw this on twitter but i wanted to talk about it here too... deltarune spoilers jic? not really in detail its more like what i’d like from the game / one possible direction it could go but be wary yeah 

so disclaimer: i have not played chp2 yet because schools killing me rn but i know most of what happens

so basically ive been rotating a little gamer’s theory in my Dome: what if... susietale??? as in... what if susie becomes the primary protag of deltarune? 👀

my logic for it isnt rly based on anything concrete so much as story telling convention, but i found it #interesting that susie doesnt rly have much in the way of meta world significance??? at least, not like kris and ralsei. usually, mechanics such as these are told from an outsider looking in, to make them more comprehensible to newcomers... and im thinking that susie may eventually end up filling that role? 

and i figure this will happen when kris ends up breaking away from the party. this would largely be influenced by their autonomy struggles, maybe start isolating themselves in an attempt to protect their friends? maybe in attempt to avoid the players control / figure out how to break it? so kris would become kind of a side character, someone you wouldnt see as often, and would only come up as susie & co try to save them. so they’d become the story’s ‘goal’ so to speak

which. granted. makes a lil less sense considering We’d be the ones controlling susie at that point but maybe kris wouldnt necessarily know that? which. would be pretty tragic lmfao all this time they’re trying to protect their friends, find ways to stop the player from meddling and then one of their closest friends ends up being controlled in their place 😭 

ANYWAYS moving along, in conjunction w/ this i can see noelle having a bigger role in the story as well, especially w/ all her Background and her close relationships with both susie AND kris. something like, after kris disappears, susies trying to pick up the pieces, trying to figure out why, try to find some kind of direction and thats where noelle comes in... among the first to point out that, hey, yeah, kris has been acting weird lately? like very distinctly not themselves? and it ends up being a thing where noelle and susie team up to like start trying to figure out whats going on w/ kris & save them?

ralsei would still be there but kinda like kris, i dont see him sticking around forever, especially as susie & co start trying to figure out whats going on. in fact i can see ralsei leaving himself at some point, maybe to become an independent actor, maybe to join kris... in any case, its clear he knows whats going on and probably has ulterior motives but who knows, rly.

anyways maybe a lot of tihs will change once i get a chance to actually play ch2 but this is kinda my Hopes for the game rly more than anything, becuase i love susie and i love noelle and i rly, rly want them to have big roles in the story sdfsdgs

anyways. the end. thanks