#avos thunder and shadow

[warriors-official-art]

Title: Thunder and Shadow

Arc: A Vision of Shadows

Type: cover

Country: Poland

Characters: Twigkit / Twigbranch and Violetkit / Violetshine

Artist: https://x.com/NoraPotwora

Source: https://x.com/WarriorCats_PL/status/1896908190861951044/photo/1

[daily-whistlebreeze]

daily whistlebreeze until e becomes PoV day 1605

Whis and Sparrowpeck having some fun

--

alright, after some consideration I have decided that for now at least I'd post the drawings as extra art alongside a more simplistic Whis drawing. These will likely be two different posts I make with a bit of time between both posts, but I'll manage the minutia later.

I will see if I can handle that at first and if this ends up being too much work I'll go over to replacing a Daily Whis by a Whis and Friends post.

I am not sure about a strict schedule yet. It would not be more than once a week though to really avoid overworking myself, but the posts would probably be posted on Saturday or Sunday as those days I'm usually less busy. If you have a catchy name to call these "Sunday extra" posts I'm fully willing to hear it

[mist-dancing]

Uh is there anything super important in Thunder and shadow? I keep forgetting that shattered sky isn’t the second book and i skipped again to that one and am now halfway through it.

[tigerlilyzero-warriorsdesigns]

“Violetkit felt numb. She stumbled after Needlepaw, Sleek-paw and Juniperpaw flanking her. Her thoughts whirled. Was it true? Had she brought only trouble to Shadow Clan?

Overwhelmed, she followed Needlepaw through the entrance tunnel. As it closed around her, she glanced back and saw the familiar dens. She was leaving another home. Was she making the right choice?

Her eye caught Rowanstar's. His gaze was as hard as ice. It's not a choice. Despair washed through her pelt. I'm not wanted here. I never truly was.”

— Thunder and Shadow pg. 177

I’ve been wanting to draw this scene for a long while now. I think I first made an attempt a few years ago but I didn’t like how it was progressing and I scrapped it. But I finally did it.

Boy, was this an experiment with perspectives and especially backgrounds. I hope it looks ok.

Cats seen, from forefront to furthest away: Needlepaw, Violetkit, Tawnypelt, Rowanstar, Tigerheart, Leafpool, Puddlepaw, Dawnpelt, Crowfrost, and Ratscar.

Puddlepaw, Crowfrost, and Ratscar are cats I’ve never drawn nor had a solid design for so I kind of just winged it. I decided for Crowfrost I’d pull from the black and white cat on the cover of Thunder and Shadow (pretty sure that it’s suppose to be Violetpaw, but I see her as being more white than black). Ratscar I just made a mean, raggedy, old looking cat (he’s one of the elders in ShadowClan that’s constantly questioning if Violetkit belongs in the Clan). Puddlepaw isn’t too special in what I came up with, but I like him anyway. Additionally, I took inspiration from PureSpiritFlower’s design of Rowanstar for mine.

[throughdarkeningskies]

rowanstar fighting darktail at the climax of thunder and shadow

[otterwisp]

I respect the Beenose hustle, she is great and deserved better

Yes i agreed, she is very underrated and I want her to get a bit popularized. By requesting everyone that is open request design canon warrior cat characters.

[animatewarriorcats]

Stonewing! He is a shadowclan cat that appears in Vision of Shadows at the first gathering as a new warrior and new mentor to Juniperpaw. He becomes mates with Grassheart, and they have Whorlkit, Flowerkit, and Silverkit in Thunder and Shadow. He is kind of an average guy in the background, doing what the narrative needs and generally being a Shadowclan dude. He is actually in favor of Shadowclan annexing with Skyclan during AVOS, saying it would provide a better environment for his kits to become warriors. He mentors Antpaw when he returns with Tigerstar from the city and then Lightpaw when she is old enough. On a hunting patrol he witnesses Antfur get hit by a falling tree branch, which ricochets onto his tail giving it a perpetual kink. He fights with the sisters and is confused by the narrative for Strikestone, who is injured and deafened. He is part of the faction that is against 'clan-swapping' but remains loyal to Shadowclan and is on the patrol that gets trapped on the Island by Splashtail. I don't know how but I always imagined he was grey, so I did add some grey to his design.

[everybody-loves-purdy]

I know this is probably a controversial take but Rowanclaw alone shouldn’t be blamed for the apprentices and young warriors not following the code and becoming rebellious in avos, all the senior warriors should shoulder the blame.

What happened wasn’t a Rowanclaw specific problem. It was a systemic collapse of law and order in ShadowClan as a whole.

One great example is that there is a scene in Thunder and Shadow where Lionpaw and Birchpaw are viciously fighting over prey, they are drawing blood. No one bats an eye apart from the kits who look on eagerly. The only ShadowClan cat to intervene is Tawnypelt, and that is only because Twigpaw got hurt trying to break them up, since Twigpaw is a hostage that ShadowClan has promised not to harm at this point. Tawnypelt then instructs Lionpaw and Birchpaw to go and collect herbs for the sick cats, to which they tell her they will only do so after they have finished eating. Tawnypelt does not dispute this at all, she allows this. And Rowanstar does not factor into this event at all since he is currently extremely sick and not present in the scene at all due to this.

Like yeah Rowanclaw was also very much at fault for the state of his clan, but it’s not like he was alone in letting standards slide.

[otterwisp]

Chubby kitty

Beenose design please? :] if your request design is open. that same gossip Kitty who gossip to needletail and sleekwhisker when their apprentices

so true

[bonefall]

what’s up with BB! Puddleshine? been having thoughts about him recently lol. i find it funny that rowanstar grabbed this random child from the nursery and was like ‘bam here’s our brand new doctor and spiritual leader everyone’

(*shaking twelve year old in the background*)

You know what's pretty cool about AVoS, buried underneath the slog of it all? The thing I keep going back to about this arc, in spite of how annoying it is to be forced to say in ThunderClan as everything interesting happens off-screen?

The way that so, so many young warriors are horrifically traumatized by both the structure of the Clans, and the Kin that they turn to.

It's a shame that the Erins were so committed to the idea of the Clan social structure NOT being the problem, because this whole arc is a perfect time to show how flawed it structurally is. LET these kids have a point, that maybe they were rebelling against something broken, but Darktail was a malicious actor who exploited their naivety to serve HIS ends.

A recap of what's happening in BB!AvoS before I explain my intentions with the Puddy Boy;

The big problem that I want Rowanstar to display is a problem that ALL the leaders of this time period also have. Commitment to Clan rivalry.

After Firestar was killed in AVoS by Dark Forest warriors, Bramblestar considers diplomacy secondary as a tactic. "ThunderClan will not be bullied any longer. We have been too soft with the other Clans for too long; and they have humiliated us by taking advantage of our kindness." (Note: Harespring and Breezepelt being part of the assassination patrol is not revealed until TBC. For MAXIMUM drama reveal.)

He escalated a border dispute that Firestar had worked closely and intimately with ShadowClan to resolve; a fight for a knoutberry patch on their border, just before Winter.

After Russetfur died in this painful battle, Blackstar backslid hard from his redemption arc. This caused the Thunder/Shadow alliance to dissolve towards the end of OotS, ending a friendship between the two Clans that had lasted through all of Po3.

He was open to Sol's manipulation, and while Tawnypelt was trying to fight the Dark Forest trainees who took over ShadowClan in the meantime... Rowanclaw became deputy by organizing a patrol of cats to remind Blackstar how much he means to them.

So Rowanstar inherits the Clan with this in mind. ShadowClan solves SHADOWCLAN'S problems. "ThunderClan had a quarrel with WindClan, but decided that we were their enemy. Leaving ourselves open for betrayal was a mistake; if we cannot handle our own problems, we will inevitably succumb to them when our so-called 'allies' don't come to help." (Note: he isn't completely wrong. His words are borderline prophetic for what's about to happen.)

Onestar has a smug chuckle at this. Since taking leadership, he's been appealing to the strongest, hardest members of his Clan. Those who once tried to kill him for his "weakness" in the Civil War. The "lesson" ShadowClan learned is one that he's known since the day Onewhisker died and Onestar was born, on the night of that sabotaged muirburn. "That so-called peace was always a farce. We are warriors of the four Clans; it was always going to come down to honor, and putting ourselves first. My WindClan isn't foolish enough to pretend like ThunderClan ever acted in anything but their own, hidden self-interest."

And Mistystar respects the direction Bramblestar has taken his Clan in, and approves of the "honesty" that the Clans are now showing. "As the branches of the honeysuckle fight and win the light for themselves, sometimes there are beautiful flowers that die in the shade. We can mourn the end of an era, and prepare for a future that will be made all the sweeter for our shared struggle. This is the way of the Clans, and StarClan's solemn light shines upon us all." (Note: god I love writing Misty's speeches)

In the family tree reworkings, Rowanstar is now the brother of Littlecloud. Sons of Brokenstar, honor-sired for Newtspeck.

Littlecloud... is suffering from early onset Alzheimer's.

He didn't want to choose an apprentice after Flametail's horrible death, heartbroken and stressed out, especially when he couldn't reach his nephew through contact with StarClan.

He can't remember, anymore, that Flametail was freed. He keeps forgetting this, over and over

He keeps ending up in different times of his life, where he's best friends with Cinderpelt and still calling Leafpool by her pre-Honor Title name, where he's inventing a mobility device for Wildfur, where he's still escaping the plague and before he knew his mentor caused it, where he's on the Great Journey...

Rowanstar is in a lot of pain, watching his brother forget so many things, scared and confused half the time. He doesn't want to believe that this is really the end, or that... many of these cats are now so young they can't recognize the various eras that Littlecloud is finding himself in.

Puddleshine and Slatefur are going to remain in Pinenose's litter. Either Lion or Birch MIGHT get shuffled to another one; and ALSO the shuffler might survive the Kin. (SO voice which one you want to survive, if you have a preference!)

SO, Violetshine has either two or three adopted siblings... plus another.

Pinenose's oldest surviving child is Happypaw. Happy is the half-sibling of Puddle/Slate-- the death of Weaselkit in the Great Battle caused his parents (Pinenose and Owlclaw) to break up.

(this is why I'm thinking about just reducing the litter to Puddle/Slate, so Violet has three major adoption-siblings to remember instead of four.)

And now we're ready to talk about Puddleshine.

He isn't the first young cat to be shoved into an extremely high-pressure position because of a Cleric becoming incapacitated. Kestrelflight was also forced to become the holy speaker of his people when he was far, far too young, after Barkface died in TNP. He dealt with this obediently, with only Jayfeather ever really being able to get him to think about it in a different light.

Unlike Kestrel, Puddlekit did voice that he was interested in becoming a Cleric, in BB. But he was too young to be properly making that choice, to know what he was getting into. He mentioned it practically offhandedly, and BOOM Rowanstar had rolled him into the position.

But Puddlepaw has a deep sense of responsibility. "Wise beyond his years"-- likely because of how tumultuous his home life was.

His mother's oldest child, Happypaw, was openly a bully of his half-siblings. Pinenose distanced herself from him as a result, causing Happy to be closer to Owlclaw, who was still not over Weaselkit's death.

But Puddle's Ba Spikefur is not a cat who handles his kit's emotions well. Instead, he encourages ambition, tells him to get back at his half-sibling by being more influential than that twerp could ever be.

Puddle will often go to Violet, the new POV, to vent about these things.

And one thing he mentions to her is how amazing Kestrelflight is, when he gets to meet him at the half-moon conferences. He learns SO MUCH from him, it's like he GETS what he's going through...

Puddle doesn't even feel sure that Littlecloud knows what he's doing anymore. If he's learning the right information at all.

But Rowanstar won't DO anything about Littlecloud-- and he CERTAINLY isn't about to let Puddlepaw go train under someone else's Cleric.

As a result of this, Puddlepaw becomes a VERY important member of Sleekpaw's little group. He wasn't one of their friends to begin with, buuuuut...

When he sits to chat with Sleekpaw and Needlepaw, with Happypaw good and far out of earshot, she makes a lot of sense.

A LOT of it.

ShadowClan is run by old men who don't know what they're doing. Rowanstar is too emotional to make good choices. Puddlepaw, barely even old enough to begin apprenticeship, is running all the medicine for an entire Clan.

And, sure, he doesn't have much in the way of a connection to StarClan, no, just a little more spiritual than the average cat...

But who can point this out? If Littlecloud is slowly losing his mind anyway?

"It's not right, how much pressure's on you," Sleekpaw growls, "And it wouldn't be this way if we could challenge Rowanstar. You should be training with Kestrelflight right now."

"But we're dealing with the shells StarClan dealt, and the Clan is looking to you now," Needlepaw points out on behalf of her friend, "You have much more sway than you know."

This time around for BB, Sleekpaw starts as a young hero. She's right. Rowanstar should be challenged, his emotions are affecting the ENTIRE Clan, and Puddlepaw is in a bad position because of it. Needlepaw is like her best diplomat, surely to become her deputy someday.

They would have made an excellent set of leaders for ShadowClan. But they trusted the wrong person, and were exploited. When Darktail and The Kin came to the lake, they were swept up by it, and WindClan began an embargo.

Puddlepaw eventually oversees the Yellowcough Outbreak, and at first just thinks it's Greencough. He has no idea about strains, or the special types of Color Cough that Clan cats have historically dealt with. Even when he finally does learn it's not JUST Greencough, he's powerless to do anything about it. A lot of cats die because of the lack of mullein.

After that, with ShadowClan so weak and the Kin so strong... he's one of the cats who calls for the merge. The most important one, in fact, leveraging his position to say that this is StarClan's will.

Sleekwhisker and Needletail were right all along, and he's happy to stick it right into everyone's faces. Onestar's tantrum of an embargo killed his Clanmates, Rowanstar stopped him from properly training, he's been under pressure from the time he was small with Littlecloud not fit to be a mentor, and he's ready to welcome in ShadowClan's new era as something that is not a Clan.

...unfortunately, it turned out to be the wrong choice. Not because his thought process was wrong. But because Darktail had other plans in-mind.

[the-pantry-of-art]

I have just bearly bitten into avos (I'm on chapter 8 of Thunder and Shadow), but I'm enjoying it so far 😁!

I love NeedlePaw, she's so sassy and energetic, and yet she also have some real depth to her character (and unfortunetly this type of characters often lack it, on text at least{ everything can be fixed with the power of remembering previous books & character analysis 🤪. ,I say while pointing at Rosetail or; Sunny from wof,). Also her friendship with AlderPaw is so cute <3 (though he can be really annoying sometimes, and pushed into the narrative of a sad good boy, even though some of his actions are rather selfish and acted out of jelousy of his sister Sparkpelt, than purely sympathetic), (but {thx StarClan} his biggest annoying fase was only, at least for now, in the Apprentice Quest. Now in Thunder and Shadow he's much more enjoable!<3)

I also think NeedlePaw being this big sis/bff for Violetkit is an incredibly good plot point! (even though NeedlePaw is a really, really bad role model XD). AlderPaw and Twigkit's interactions are also really sweet!

***.

I just really don't understand why Jayfeather was made so, so pointlessly mean in this arc 😓, like I know he always was this way, but in po3 and oots it at least was more balanced, now it just seems forced and caricatured. I get him being annoyed and fed up with Sparkpelt and AlderPaw (after all, they are the new "true" children of his parents, and they live the life he once had, but was taken from him), but why is he so mean to everybody else? Why is he so horrible to Twigkit? ( like he is one of my Most Favourite characters, but now it feels like he's kinda boiled down to a stereotypical forced annoying plot device).

I'm probably gonna write a longer and more comprehensive analysis, after I'll finish Thunder and Shadow, because there's just a ton of stuff I wanna talk about! to much to write in one sitting.

[harriertail]

absolutely devoured Thunder and Shadow in a reread and God they really could have made the first 3 AVoS books into a whole arc. SO much happens and theres such huge time skips - TaA skips the entire leafbare they'd been discussing and fearing- and the pacing is so janky. They skim over what could be really good moments. ShadowClan's illness. WindClan's paranoia. Going on massive quests every couple chapters. Even in Shattered Sky they bring back fucking SkyClan while RiverClan is being occupied, and then Darktail is defeated and we all kinda agree the arc goes to shit. Soooo much happens in 1-3 they just skip over!!!!

[bonebabbles]

how many books have they named Thunder or something Thunder adjacent at this point, isn’t this like, the third?

That's a good question lemmie look

Thunder and Shadow (AVoS Book 2)

Thunder Rising (DOTC Book 2)

Thunder (ASC Book 4)

Thief in ThunderClan (Comic; about ThunderClan)

Thunderstar's Echo (Novella)

You are correct. This is the 3rd book with Thunder in the name, not counting TiTC and TE which have entities with Thunder in the name in the title.

Shadow probably has more though, to be fair. There are SO many books that have Shadow in the name lmao.

[dawnfinchh]

i made full "canon" allegiances for the start of the apprentice's quest: link to google doc

this is a part of a little series im doing, where im making full allegiances for the first book of every arc in order. i did bramblestar's storm before this due to the large time gap between the apprentice's quest and the fourth apprentice

here is the masterpost for all the allegiances

“canon” is in quotations because a lot of this is guesswork about who logically would be around at that point in time, but aren’t listed in allegiances or mentioned in the book.

this is mainly meant to be a resource for fanworks

general stuff that’s all still same as last time:

wiki pages are linked to character’s names

med cat = cleric

characters are listed by age. where there are no concrete ages, i make my best guess

tc is the only clan without a “kit” rank as all kits in the clan have known parents, tho we are entering an era where the majority of kits of all clans are starting to have known parents! just in general there is a lot less guesswork as non-tc clans have more filled out allegiances

thunderclan:

pretty much just the allegiances from the apprentice's quest, listed in accordance of age

shadowclan:

grassheart - she is listed as a queen in taq's allegiances and her kits are born next book, but due to the amount of time that passes, i don't think that she would be pregnant quite yet, or at least not noticeably so

riverclan:

sneezecloud is FINALLY a warrior. his apprenticeship took literal years

lakeheart's kits are not listed in taq's allegiances but they are mentioned as being born in like, chapter three, so i think it's fine to list them as born

wavekit/wavepaw and cypresskit/cypresspaw - they are apprentices in thunder and shadow, so making them kits here works. they have no canon mentors

beetlewhisker is not listed bc he is dead

windclan:

whiskernose is listed bc while he is not in avos allegiances, he shows up in surrounding SE and novellas, and in later arcs

outsiders:

pebbleshine and mistfeather - they are listed bc they are around the area. pebbleshine is tagged as (expecting kits) rather than having twig and violet listed bc i do think it's likely that she gave birth like 0.5 seconds before alderpaw found them

darktail's group is listed

[otterwisp]

There she is. Beenose the ex bratty gossip girls. That used to hang out with needletail & sleekwhisker as apprentices.

Can you do beenose design please?

Beenose! I need to re-read avos but I remember picturing her with a cute yellow nose bridge.