#but sometimes and especially since i have the parallel with Ange and Eva... idk...

[anawkwardlady]

OK, a take that crossed my mind: can we discuss how Ryukishi loves his characters so much that he's ready to forgive even the worst of them? EVEN KINZO???

First, there is no debate that he writes with love.

Also, he writes about violence, from the point of view about both the perpetrator and the victim, and without judgement. Which is amazing! He shows how violence is devastating for the victim, but he also shows how the complex mindset of the people that are to commit such acts, related to isolation and trauma.

He shows that it's possible to break the generational cycle of violence, with communication (to de-isolate) and love.

And I love how violence is not shown as a moral failure, but as a product of past violence, and as prepetrator are not depicted as monsters but as humans.

But Kinzo, seriously? Do I need to explain what he inflicted on Kuwadorian Beatrice? And his children? And the lessons I should get from Chiru is "Battler looks like Kinzo, he should be proud of it" and "Ange should remember Kinzo as a kind grandfather". HE DID NOTHING TO DESERVE FORGIVENESS, EXCEPT SOBBING AT THE FEET OF THE MOST TRAUMATIZED CHARACTER OF THE SERIES.

And finally, my hot take: the only characters who are not forgiven are Teppei Hōjō and Rina Mamiya, because unlike Kinzo, Ryukishi does not love them.

I get the point but I think it's more complicated. it's not so much a "we're forgiving Kinzo" narrative and more a "a lot of characters are trying to cope and deal with the complex feelings they're dealing with" thing.

For exemple, I don't think Chiru's message is that Battler should be proud of being like Kinzo but a mix of trying to convey what Kinzo's and Kuwadorian Beatrice dynamic was like through BATTLER and chick Beato, Sayo's complex feelings towards Kinzo's and her circumstances of birth, Tohya understanding Sayo's feelings and coping with his own situation and what Battler represented to her and Battler wanting Ange to be happy. Battler's message in EP8 was not so much to remember Kinzo as someone's kind I think, but that everything Ange experienced was the worst of everyone and therefore her view was distorted and bringing a lot of pain to her. He wants her to also remember to cherish the good they had because he wants her to be happy. He is her brother so his view is biased in favor of protecting her.

All of this will make things more gray and blur the lines because it inherently will bring some sort of romanticism. I do think theres discussion to have on to which extent it does become enabling and so on but yeah, I think it's a also more nuanced than Ryukishi telling us that Kinzo was not that bad. It's tricky! I had the same complex thoughts about the whole Ange taking some "responsibility" on Eva's abuse thing. On one hand, it's her view and way to cope with it and theres not one acceptable way a victim should react and grow, on the other hand... Yeah I left meh about the message sometimes.

And for your last part : wasn't Teppei somehow "forgiven" by the narrative in GouSotsu? (i didn't watched it all so idk) also I have to admit I always was a bit annoyed that Rena's dad wasn't seen in that same light just because he wasn't overtly physically abusive despite being extremely abusive nonetheless but thats another subject. ANYWAY