#calling him out for abusing Jin Ling

[fleabagsversion]

Listen, Jiang Cheng is my babygirl who has many flaws and does a lot of bad things as an adult. Yes, he is a spitting image of his mother and carries a lot of anger and hatred in him which he then uses to hurt other people. But none of this means he deserved the emotional abuse by his parents while growing up. Jiang Fengmian favouring Wei Wuxian over him because JC wasn’t as good as the former is Jiang Fengmian’s fault and not Jiang Cheng’s. And Madam Yu always pushing Jiang Cheng to do better than Wei Wuxian and giving him more insecurities was Madam Yu’s fault and not Jiang Cheng’s. It’s amazing to me that now we are justifying parental neglect just because a literal child wasn’t perfect in everything he did. Jiang Fengmian should have shown love to his own son too even if the said son wasn’t “good enough”. Hell, Jiang Fengmian should have shown love to JC even if JC was a failure of a kid. Parental love isn’t conditional, you don’t abandon a child just because they are not who you wanted them to be.

Also, it is not a child’s duty to learn to read his adult father’s “hidden love”. This whole idea that Jiang Fengmian loved JC even if he didn’t show it is just stereotyping parents’ behaviour in Asian culture. Parents should show love openly to their children, idc what anyone else has to say about this.

And Madam Yu didn’t have any right to abuse her children just because she herself had her own problems.

[wangxianficfinder]

Fic Finder

June 18th

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1. I'm looking for a fic where wwx lied about not being a virgin anymore and jin zixuan asked him who did he have sex with and wwx said lz, but jzx was skeptical and didn't believe him so wwx made a deal that if he somehow proved he and lz are together sleeping w/ each other then jzx will give him money, then wwx go to lz room which is coincidentally the one next to jzx's and ask him to fake having sex with him but ofc lz refuses then wwx starts making fake sexual noises yk and banging the bed headboard on the wall, jzx was startled and shocked with disbelief but later he admit defeat and give wwx the money,

FOUND? caught in the sugar by occultings (microcomets) (E, 13k, WangXian, Modern, Fake/Pretend Relationship, fake FWB, Workplace Retreats, Drinking Games, Humor, some blink-and-miss-it wwx-flavored comphet during the sex scene, LWJ dicking WWX down so hard he sees shrimp colors, as per usual, the hero’s journey to answer the call of being a bottom, Barebacking, First Time)

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2. hii im looking for the fic where lwj uses emojis that have double meanings and wwx thinks that he's doing it without knowing. except lwj DOES know what he's doing and is sending those emoji combos on purpose @f1sh1ng4gl0ry

FOUND? Lan Zhan doesn't know how to use emojis by QueenofThyme (M, 7k, WangXian, emojis, Texting, Epistolary, Innuendo, Eggplant Emoji, Friends to Lovers, Pining, Idiots in Love, Artist WWX, Modern AU)

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3. I’m looking for a fic Modern setting lwj gets a call about a -yuan not being able to stop crying I think it was bc he asked something in mandarin but despite what he wanted being obv the teacher would not let him unless he spoke English or smth like that wwx is a teacher and speaks mandarin and a-yuan gets moved to his class @zerokogane

FOUND? 🔒 A New Term by jiejieaini (E, 21k, WangXian, Modern, WangXian Get a Happy Ending, LWJ is best dad, Bunnies, London, Implied/Referenced Child Abuse, Implied/Referenced Homophobia, Implied/Referenced Abuse, Adopted WWX, Fluff and Angst, Smut, Hurt/Comfort, Emotional Hurt/Comfort, Reunions, Hand Jobs, Tears, Gay Sex)

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4. hi I'm looking for fan fic i read in oa3, it's about wei ying being possessed by himself in yunmeng, the weiying in the sunshot campaign time and trying to kill wei ying in the body of mo xuanyu. this happens after the canon events in the novel. wei ying even adopted another son besides ayuan, please help meeeee

FOUND? 🔒 Twelve Moons and a Fortnight by stiltonbasket (M, 290k, WangXian, Post-Canon Fix-It, Love Letters, Family Feels, ft. the yunmeng bros being bros, and the junior ducklings being precious, a-qing lives, Romantic Comedy, Case Fic, Politics, gratuitious social reform, as expected when wwx is left in charge of a government without supervision, Yunmeng Jiang Sect, Slow Burn, the burn is very fast actually wwx is just clueless, (slaps fic) this bad boy can fit so much worldbuilding in it, Sect Leader WWX, Accidental Baby Acquisition, Happy Ending, Russian Translation Available, [podfic] Twelve Moons and a Fortnight by stiltonbasket by daisydiversions)

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5. Hi again, thanks for your hard work. Hope it isn't a bother to ask for a resubmission of my earlier request to see if anyone can recognise the fics. A) So there are two fics that I haven't been able to find. The first one was a case fic of some kind where wx were with a bunch of junior lans. There was a scene where they started making out on a table (i think it was their first kiss, like a post-canon get together) and jiang cheng, who has come to help, walks in on them. Cue yunmeng bros squaking. B) The second was also wangxian post-canon. I can only remember one scene where Jin Ling bursts into Jiang Cheng's room and triggers a ptsd response from the sunshot campaign. JC then scolds JL for startling people who had been in a war. I'm not sure if wx were background or not. Thanks in advance!! @lunaloup

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6. hiya! i’m trying to find a specific fic where jin ling is WWXs biological child because JY and JZ couldn’t have children. thank you in advance! @the-kings-of-henrietta

FOUND? Coming of Age of Jin RuLan by gayatridoes (G, 3k, XuanLi, WangXian, Miscarriage, Mpreg, Alternate Universe, Heavy Angst)

FOUND?🔒Sacrifice by PepWrites (Not Rated, 2k, XuanXian, XuanLi, Alpha/Beta/Omega Dynamics, Surrogacy)

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7. Hi! I'm hoping you could help me find a fic that i've been looking for for a few days. I think it was on ao3, and in this fic wwx has an idea to help the lans with the waterborne abyss, but only tels lwj thinking it won't be taken seriously. Only lwj does take it serious and they end up using a yin lure flag (or some variation) to lead the waterborne abyss to some lake where the lans can take care of it without causing to much trouble for the people of Caiyi. I can very clearly remember lwj helping wwx look at maps to figure out in which lake the waterborne abyss could be handled easily and how they could get it there, but I don't remember much else. Thanks!!! @m4rieke

FOUND! SanRen by Kyogre (T, 87k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Different First Meeting, Romantic Fluff, Action & Romance, Eventual Happy Ending)

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8. Hello, i am searching a fic it was in spanish and on wattpad. Story : Jiang cheng owns a coffee shop where he gets kidnapped by wen chao. Lan xichen is the husband of JC and he is a judge. Lan wanji is a lwayer and wei ying is a detective that put most of the bad wens is prison. wen chao was on the run, it was supposed to be jin ling that got kidnapped but instead they took JC where they tortured him. I think when i translated it the title was something like 'jiujiu isn't there' but i can't find @jiangcheng1709

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9. Hey,

I'm not sure if it is one or two fics.

I think it is a time travel fic.

The first scene I remember is that SS dies during the Waterborn abyss scene which LZ (?) regrets because it makes his brother cry (?). At the same time he says to himself that SS need to die but he regrets that he gave his brother this burden or something like this.

The second scene is LZ who organizes a punishment for JC, NHS and other people who broke rules except WY. He met WY earlier in the night and sent him to his room. LZ gave him his robe (?) and in the next morning WY woke up and run to the punishment room only wearing this robe to save JC. He talked with LZ to punish him instead JC but LZ said something like he would never punish WY.

Later LZ fights with his uncle because he never punishes the sects heir and mostly WWX.

I think the fic was a wip.

Thank you in advance!

FOUND? All The Words I Never Got To Say by Lost_Stories (M, 85k, JGY/NHS, WangXian, LXC/NMJ, LWJ & NHS, WIP, Fix-It of Sorts, Not Everyone Dies, It Gets Worse Before It Gets Better, NHS just can't catch a damn break, Time Travel Fix-It, canonical character deaths ARE still present (but will not include wwx), Golden Core Transfer, Golden Core Reveal, NHS Character Study, Angst with a Happy Ending, I am so sorry lotus pier still falls, NHS and NMJ's moms are in a poly type relationship with their dad I know that's not canon don't @ me, DW JGS will kick the bucket, I just didn't want to give him the satisfaction of being a 'major character', Introspection, Morally grey main character, mild whump, NHS has trauma and this is me making him work through it, rating is for some swearing and violence, the occasional dead body and demonic cultivation, Ruthless NHS, POV NHS, Scheming NHS, NHS-centric, some mild torture it would seem) fits the first part of the request (except the time traveler is NHS not LWJ) but not the second part.

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10. Hello, I'm looking for a fic from modern college settings. Lan wangji joins college same as lan xichen. However lxc, meng yao, su she, wen chao and wei ying take advantage of lwj. Lwj is kind of innocent. I'm not sure if the fic was in English or other language but I'm sure it is ongoing. Not yet completed.. Do u know the name of the fic?? Thanks for your help in advance. No worries if you don't know.

#10 is a fic that is deleted I believe

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11. Hello! was looking for a fic which begins with lwj performing clarity to calm spirits in the jingshi, while he is doing this he comes in contact with spirit wwx (they have not met and do not know each other) who was a rogue cultivator and died young I think? anyway lwj tries to find out why spirit wwx is unable to rest in peace and is still in this world.

I remember this one particular scene where lwj defeats the tortoise of slaughter with the help of spirit wwx, and later on in the fic wwx's spirit dissipates but it has a happy ending cuz he comes back. please and thank you!! @ilikebredandstars

FOUND? asymptotic by chinxe (T, 26k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Angst with a Happy Ending, Slow Burn, Misunderstandings, Pining, for 20+ years as per the course with lwj, Mojo’s post)

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12. Ok, I’ve looked under every description I can think of, and I think it might have gotten deleted. Even so I’d still like to find it. What I remember is Wei Ying and Lan Xhan are both kids again. Wwx decides he’s done with the Cultivation Sects and gets himself adopted by a farmer in Yiling. Lwj doesn’t talk to any of the Lans and sticks around to get his sword and summon the ghost of his mother then dips. He eventually finds Wwx and they get together and stick around Wwx new family. @marmaladeshinigami

FOUND? 12 sounds like “Chosen Family by SplitGirl28” but unfortunately has been deleted by the author on AO3

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13. Hello I was looking for this time travel fix it fic, where lwj and wwx both travel back into the past in their younger bodies. Lan Qiren leaves the class for a few minutes and comes back to find wei wuxian and lwj kissing passionately. I think it was a WIP. please and thank you :D. @ilikebredandstars

FOUND? trouble with time by cloudpd (T, 5k, WangXian, Time Travel, Cloud Recesses Study Arc, POV Outsider, Humor, POV JC, he’s so fed up with wangxian, rightfully so, wangxian are shameless, kind of crack, JC’s inner dialogue for this whole fic is just: what the fuck, POV LXC, because LXC deserves to be subjected to gross wangxian as well!!, the third chapter is LJY going “WWX rights!!”, and that’s all im going to say about that, horny wangxian time travel: the thrilling conclusion) matches for the description in everything except that it's a completed fic.

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14. Hi! I would like to find fic where LZ breaks up with WWX because of LQR. WWX’s mental health goes much more worse and he has nightmares due to his ex boyfriend XY. Finally he lays in the bath and drinks alcohol and calls LZ and he calls ambulance and then they make up

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15. Ahoy, first time needing help finding a fic, kinda nervous🫦

I'm desperately looking for a Yunmeng bros reconciliation fic that was written from JC's POV. Iirc it was post-(novel?) canon and WWX and LWJ were already married, there were some sect politics and WWX and JC slowly grew closer again because they both care for JL. It had some angst but no smut as far as I know.

Ik this isn't the most detailed description but I thought I had it bookmarked and it isn't there😭  I even tried to go through my entire history but I never cleared that and it's LONG so no luck. Is there maybe anyone who knows what fic I'm talking about? 💔

Thank you guys for your hard work and maintaining this account! Sending love! @jorolle

FOUND!🔒 before you stumble by ribena (T, 9k, JC & WWX, Post-Canon, Case Fic, Yunmeng Shuangjie, Reconciliation, Fix-It)

NOT FOUND! Reeds in the Wind by merakily (T, 26k, WangXian, Post-Canon, Canon Compliant, Character Study, Yunmeng bros Reconciliation, Rabbit Therapy, Sewing Therapy, PTSD, Emotional Baggage, Hurt/Comfort, JC is Bad at Feelings, JC Needs a Hug)

NOT FOUND! everyone else is spring bound by Lise (T, 18k, WangXian, JC & JL, JC & WWX, JC & LWJ, Post-Canon, Post-Finale, Dysfunctional Family, Family Bonding, JC & WWX Reconciliation, JC Needs a Hug, or a nap really, POV JC, Brothers, Family Feels, Light Angst, jc has a lot of feelings and doesn't know how to deal with that: the fic, Reconciliation, Awkward Conversations, Everyone Is Doing Their Best) although Wei Ying and Lan Zhan aren't married in this one

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16. I have looked all through my bookmarks history and hope this was not deleted! Wei Ying a d Lan Zhan married when they were young. After Lan Zhan was hurt in an accident, Lan Qiren forced a divorce. Years later, Wei Ying (who is a mechanic and owns a garage) sees LZ at a wedding with Mo Xuanyu (think it’s Mianmian’s or Yanli’s wedding). LZ starts showing up at the garage with his fancy car, at the photo shoot for WY’s charity calendar (shirtless). Mo Xuanyu comes by to threaten WY. LZ and WY get back together. Thank you si much for any help! @cschistory

FOUND? Love You So Much, It Makes Me Sick by DeviyudeThoolika (E, 63k, WangXian, WangYu, WWX/Other(s), XiYao, Modern AU, Exes, divorced wangxian, Ten Years Later, Angst, Eventual Smut, LWJ going hard to get WWX’s attention, WWX is Loved, Fluff and Smut, Angst and Hurt/Comfort, Angst with a Happy Ending)

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17. Hi! I was pointed in your direction so it would be amazing if you could help me :D

I read a Wangxian fic on AO3 a few years ago b ur I haven’t been able to find it since.

It was essentially a retelling of events from the novel entirely from LWJ’s POV (3rd person).

Had a lot of pining and angst in it. From what I can remember, these events definitely happened:

The Wen Archery Tournament: where LWJ talks about wanting to see WWX again but then thinks WWX doesn’t remember who he is.

LWJ getting drunk because he thinks that maybe if he loses his inhibitions a bit he can express himself better

The aftermath of the inn scene which is very angsty and then meeting Fairy who taps out that WWX is at Guanyin Temple.

Guanyin Temple

There’s definitely others but it’s been a long time since I read it and this is the most I can remember.

It had an angst with a happy ending vibe if memory serves me correctly. It would be amazing if you can help me track this down I wish I could reread it.

During the interval period of Wei Ying’s death, LWJ is at Carp Tower (now run by JGY) and gets hit on by a male acrobatic performer. He’s almost into it before noting he might have been drugged by something and rejecting the guy. He then worries that someone might have discovered a collection of his stuff that would reveal he’s gay.

Later on in the story after WWX’s resurrection and the reveal that JGY stole from the Lan Secret Library, he mentions the incident to Zewu-jun and asks if he noted anything weird about what he drank at the Carp Tower implying JGY might have drugged Zewu-Jun at the same event.

Zewu-jun says something along the lines of “he wouldn’t do that”.

Thank you! @danmeidiaries

FOUND!🔒The Price of Old Wishes by SoManyJacks (E, 67k, WangXian, Minor canon divergence, Angst, POV LWJ, Depression, Suicidal Thoughts, Eventual Happy Ending, Eventual Smut, Slow Burn, Emotional Hurt/Comfort, semi-verbal!LWJ, Implied/Referenced Homophobia, Implied/Referenced Suicide) I don't remember the events of the fic exactly well enough to confirm if all the events listed in the ask are present, but it might be this one

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18. Hi! For the longest time now, I’ve been looking for a fic where Lan Wangji comes to Loted Pear, I think it’s set afrer the cloud recesses study arc, the were both still quite young. They were sparring, Wei Ying was trying to show Lan Zhan all pf the Lotus Pear and how to have fun there. (I remember one part where Wei Ying and Lan Zahn went swimming in the lake with other boys, and Lan Zhan then felf quite conflicted because of his sexuality.) But that’s all I remeber.:/ I would be also grateful for *any* recommendations about fics where Lan Zhan visited Wei Ying in the Lotus Pier:) I think it’s such a cute concept @fruity-mango

FOUND? Wei Laoshi, Poonslayer by FeelsForBreakfast (E, 6k, WangXian, Cloud Recesses Study Arc, POV LWJ, straight boy WWX, Loss of Virginity, Getting Together, [Podfic] Wei Laoshi, Poonslayer by PandaReads (DrPanda99))

FOUND? Forgetting Envies and Fleeing Questions by marikazz (T, 7k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, No Sunshot Campaign, Repressed, LWJ, Song: Wangxian, Fluff, Swordfighting, the homoerotic kind, Love Confessions, Confessions, Flirting, Getting Together, Pining, Humor, POV LWJ)

FOUND? sweet chaos by eachandeverydimension (G, 86k, WangXian, Arranged Marriage, Canon Divergence, Fluff, Romance, Light Angst, Falling In Love, Different First Meeting, Qīnghéng-jūn’s A+ Parenting, Night Hunts, Chinese Language, Good Sibling LXC, Good Sibling JYL, POV LWJ, Getting Together, Love Confessions, First Kiss, Chinese Culture, Slow Burn, No Homophobia AU)

🔒 The Water's Right, It's Sinking In by GravityWinsAgain (T, 9k, WangXian, Fluff and Angst, but the angst is all in LWJ's head, seriously nothing outside of his own internalized panic is happening, LWJ visits lotus pier, And has a breakdown about it, Canon Divergence, No Sunshot Campaign, da-shixiong WWX, Repressed LWJ, But they figure it out in the end, Happy Ending, LWJ has emotions and is not pleased, Location: Lotus Pier) not the fic they were looking for but more lwj visits lotus pier things

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19. Hi! I have a fic finder request, please. It is a modern au where WWX is a vlogger who makes idyllic vlogs about life in the Chinese countryside. LWJ is a famous classical musician who takes a vacation in WWX's village and they grow close. I think fans recognize LWJ in WWX's vlog. At one point a little kid from the village goes missing and they all search to find her. I remember reading this 2-3 years ago, I think it was quite popular back then. Thank you for any leads to what this might be!

FOUND!🔒🧡 【那夏天的我們】 a stroke of fate by puddingcatbeans (G, 59k, WangXian, Modern AU, Fluff, Slice of Life, Falling In Love, Summer, Barakamon AU, renowned musician lwj escapes to tiny village and falls in love with local farmer boy wwx, good times only, YouTuber WWX, Food)

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20. Hi!! I hope you are doing well! I can't seem to find this fic where lan wangji is older amd a teacher at cloud recess when wei wuxian and the Jiang sect come to study. Over the course of time, he kind of realizes the genius that wei wuxian really is and the miss treatment that he is getting at the Jiang sect. It somewhat follows the original Mo dao zu shi script but there is a lot of Jiang cheng Bashing that happens through out the fic. Also there is a part where WY has to drink demon blood to maintain control over his demonic cultivation and he dosent do that and faints. Sorry if it's a little vague but these were the only specifics I could remember. If I remember correctly it was a discontinued fic last I read it.

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[hinge]

Hinge presents an anthology of love stories almost never told. Read more on https://no-ordinary-love.co

[qiu-yan]

Do you have any feelings opinions or analysis of the golden core reveal or just how the scene in the ancestral hall went down?? Because I have a lot of feelings about it but I can't quite put them together into words and I love your analysis of the story and jiang cheng

thank you for the ask!!!! and thank you for your kind comments!!

god i have so many opinions about the golden core reveal, and the ancestral hall scene that precedes it. i don't quite have all my thoughts in proper essay order right now, but i will probably write another long-ass post about my Hot Takes some day soon.

unorganized thoughts as of right now:

for the ancestral hall scene, i am almost purely on jiang cheng's side. jiang cheng was rude as hell and he did verbally escalate instead of peacefully allowing wangxian to leave, yes. however, they are in his house. they are in front of his ancestors. they are in his ancestral hall, which they entered without permission. to me, it seems like wei wuxian wants to have his cake and eat it too: he wants to avoid jiang cheng and all the anger the jiang cheng of the present has at his (very real and rather devastating) mistakes, but he also wants to freely come and go in jiang cheng's own goddamn house, like he used to be able to when he still had a positive relationship with jiang cheng. if wei wuxian is going to act like jiang cheng and yunmeng jiang are nothing to him anymore, then he should properly commit to being a full outsider.

it's also interesting how wei wuxian focuses his retorts in his argument with jiang cheng on "how dare you be cruel to lan zhan!!! i'm protecting lan zhan!!!!" when in my view the vast majority of jiang cheng's verbal abuse was directed towards wei wuxian himself. jiang cheng calls lan wangji "riffraff" and "an outsider," but that...is incredibly mild language to me. jiang cheng is ruder to wen ning (by calling him a "wen dog") for heaven's sake. instead, jiang cheng is much nastier towards wei wuxian himself: wei wuxian is shameless, wei wuxian's idiotic hero complex got all his family members killed, wei wuxian is why jin ling is an orphan, wei wuxian is a heartless ingrate, etc etc.

wei wuxian, defend YOURSELF! jiang cheng is barely being nasty at all to lan wangji, but he IS being nasty to YOU! compared to all the horrid shit he yells at you, he barely even brings up lan wangji at all! at the very least, tell jiang cheng not to call wen ning a "wen dog"!

i haven't fully thought this out yet so i'm not sure how fully i stand by it, but the fact that wei wuxian gets that heated "defending lan wangji" when jiang cheng barely even insulted lan wangji that much, is very interesting. it implies to me that, while wei wuxian thinks he does not have the right to properly rebut jiang cheng's criticisms of himself, that he truly is guilty and therefore should just take jiang cheng's verbal abuse of him lying down - deep down, he is still upset about jiang cheng blaming him specifically. when jiang cheng calls wei wuxian an ingrate who got all of jiang cheng's family members killed, wei wuxian is in fact upset and does in fact want to protest. however, he is unable to openly do so because he also feels incredibly guilty himself about the role he played in jin zixuan and jiang yanli's deaths, and therefore thinks he does not have the right to defend himself against jiang cheng's rage on the same issue.

but wei wuxian is still upset and still wishes to rebut jiang cheng's fury. therefore, "defending lan wangji" becomes an excuse for wei wuxian, a pretext to find issue with jiang cheng's arguments and therefore fight back. it's somewhat similar to when someone writes an incredibly effective counterargument to your post, so you hyperfocus on mocking them for a spelling error instead: you can't think of a way to properly rebut their rebuttal, so you jump on the first thing that gives you an excuse to disagree with them and poke holes in their argument. wei wuxian believes (accurately or not) that he does not have the right to defend himself against jiang cheng; however, he is fully justified in defending lan wangji from jiang cheng, which gives him an excuse to argue back when jiang cheng insults wei wuxian.

this is evidenced by the fact that, in the ancestral hall scene, wei wuxian does not defend wen ning from jiang cheng at all. jiang cheng also gives wei wuxian shit for "let[ting] the Wen dog wander around in front of our gates," but wei wuxian just fully lets that comment slide in favor of defending only lan wangji. while this could be because lan wangji is present to hear jiang cheng say this while wen ning is not, for me, another reason comes to mind as well: in wei wuxian's mind, wen ning is also involved, however tangentially, in the deaths of jin zixuan and jiang yanli. wei wuxian's guilt extends to encompass wei ning as well. therefore, wei wuxian feels that he also does not have the right to defend wen ning from jiang cheng. it is only lan wangji out of the three people jiang cheng insults that wei wuxian has the right to defend, because lan wangji alone was not involved in the jiang family tragedy of wei wuxian's first life.

also, it was wei wuxian who first escalated a verbal confrontation into a physical one.

regarding the golden core transfer scene.....first, i find it absolutely hilarious that wen ning of all people spilled the beans to jiang cheng, and got so mad about it to boot. king, you helped operate on him. king, you helped lie to him about it. king, there is no shortage of things you have the full right to be angry with sect leader jiang about, but him believing the lies you actively chose to tell him and not figuring out that you were lying is not one of them. as someone else put it, one person between wen ning and jiang cheng had a free and active hand in removing wei wuxian's core and putting it into jiang cheng, and that person was not jiang cheng. wen ning helping violate jiang cheng's bodily autonomy and then weaponizing said nonconsensual surgery later in an argument against the same jiang cheng is kind of crazy to me, honestly.

imo (and i'm stealing from an analysis i read somewhere), wen ning was this harsh about the golden core reveal despite being one of the surgeons who nonconsensually operated on jiang cheng and then lied to him about it for similar reasons as i described for wei wuxian above. wen ning is also deeply angry with jiang cheng for a lot of things: jiang cheng repeatedly calls him a "thing" and kicks him around like he isn't a human being; jiang cheng also led the first siege of the burial mounds, which killed all save one of wen ning's family members. that is a completely reasonable thing to be mad about. but wen ning, having seen firsthand the wrongdoings of qishan wen, probably has a guilt complex of sorts about being a wen; more importantly, he feels incredibly guilty about his "role" in killing jin ling's father. therefore, wen ning probably does not feel he has the right to defend himself from jiang cheng.

but deep down wen ning is still angry. he is still incredibly angry with jiang cheng for the things jiang cheng did to wen ning. and, while wen ning may not feel like he has the right to defend himself from jiang cheng, defending wei wuxian from jiang cheng is a different matter. in wen ning's eyes, wei wuxian did no major wrong and always had good intentions. therefore, jiang cheng has no right to be angry with wei wuxian. therefore, if wen ning absolutely wrecks jiang cheng's shit defending wei wuxian (and not wen ning himself), then wen ning would be entirely justified.

second - and my thoughts on this haven't fully baked yet - there's this undercurrent in both the golden core transfer scene and the guanyin temple scene that, because wei wuxian gave jiang cheng his core, jiang cheng does not have the right to be angry with wei wuxian for the pain wei wuxian's actions caused jiang cheng. that jiang cheng is now permanently indebted to wei wuxian, which therefore voids all of jiang cheng's right to say that wei wuxian hurt him.

i don't like this undercurrent. i don't like this idea at all. if someone - even accidentally - caused you a lot of pain, the fact that they also once sacrificed themself for you does not negate the pain they caused you. you should be grateful for what they did for you, but that doesn't mean you no longer have a right to your pain.

to flip the script, jiang cheng in reality also sacrificed himself for wei wuxian: he only lost his golden core to begin with because he drew that wen patrol away from wei wuxian. it is factually correct to say that, were it not for jiang cheng, wei wuxian would very likely be dead. but if anyone were to say: "jiang cheng once sacrificed himself for wei wuxian, meaning that wei wuxian owes his life to jiang cheng; therefore, wei wuxian does not have the right to be angry with jiang cheng for the first siege of the burial mounds," that would be fucking stupid. because that's not how it works.

i hold this to be true even though there is a cause-and-effect relationship between each person's sacrifice and their later actions. wei wuxian not having a golden core explains a lot of his later lying and other behavior, and jiang cheng having been tortured because he saved wei wuxian in turn explains a lot of his later resentment and other behavior as well. but neither of their fates were set in stone. both of them still had free will and still could have made different decisions afterwards.

the above is all a lot of blaming, refutation of blaming, and morality wank, so here are some assorted non-morality opinions:

the gift of the magi esque dual-sacrifice wei wuxian and jiang cheng pulled for each other is my favorite part of the story. like holy shit.

wen ning did phrase the golden core reveal to be as hurtful as possible. i find the idea of a sacrifice performed out of love and care for the recipient later being weaponized against that same recipient to be a very interesting idea.

wei wuxian absolutely did not give up his golden core out of only a sense of duty. there was quite a lot of duty, obligation, and guilt (spurred on by jiang fengmian and yu ziyuan's last words to him) mixed into his reasons, but i think wei wuxian gave his golden core to jiang cheng because he loved jiang cheng and didn't want to watch jiang cheng suffer.

jiang cheng, meanwhile, led the wen patrol away and thus got captured in place of wei wuxian purely because he loved wei wuxian. in doing so, he specifically failed his duty to his dead parents, his ancestors, and his sect.

wei wuxian's internal narration about how he later conceptualized the golden core transfer as "his duty to the jiang" is interesting because it is written to be a post-hoc justification. as in, he came up with those reasons and that line of thinking after he already gave up his golden core, and was trying to make the outcome acceptable to himself.

jiang cheng postcanon is in a position to start healing. this take is also stolen from an analysis i read somewhere else, but the one question that's been cooking jiang cheng for the past 13 years is Why. why did wei wuxian do all that? did wei wuxian ever truly care about him, about his family, or was wei wuxian lying from the start? wei wuxian consistently accomplishes the impossible, so how could wei wuxian allow this to happen? but now that jiang cheng knows wei wuxian gave his golden core to him, suddenly all these questions have answers. the cause and effect relationship between A and B makes sense now. and now that jiang cheng has answers, he can let the questions stop cooking his brain and begin to heal and move on.

thank you again for the ask and the kind comments!

[sonik-kun]

Can somebody tell JC antis that fiction is always up for interpretation unless explicitly stated otherwise by the author. You can read between the lines, but not everyone will find the same answers. And that's okay. That's what makes fiction fun to debate so we can offer each other different perspectives on the character and how they see the world. You don't have to be patronising about it.

But at the same time, if you read everything through a black and white lens (which oddly enough, is often what MXTX warns readers in her works), you'll come out with a very one dimensional character, lacking any depth.

The problem with JC antis is that you read JC as a one dimensional villain. You don't understand the nuance to his character. Yes, he is flawed. But he is also not evil. Morally grey is a better word to describe him as it is to describe Wei Wuxian.

And no. JC did not continue the cycle of abuse. Contrast his relationship with his parents to his relationship with Jin Ling, and you will see that. Also contrast how Jin Ling turned out compared to him. You'll see that Jin Ling had a better upbringing because of Jiang Cheng's and Jin Guangyao's care (who may I remind you, it is heavily implied they each spent a lot of time together with. Jin Ling trusting Jiang Cheng enough to always call for his help whenever he is in trouble despite being the heir to a way more powerful sect than the Jiang. Not only that, it is implied that he inherited a lot of Jiang Cheng's mannerisms. The two constantly look out for each other as we see at the end of the book. So yes. I think it's safe to say that JC and JL had a secure and happy relationship, despite the former being stern with him. I implore JC antis to remember the historical context and the parent and child relationship at that time, also. It wasn't the same as ours, so we shouldn't judge it by modern standards.)

Take off your main character goggles and start reading more into the other characters. Once you drop all main character bias, you'll see what we mean.

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

It will never cease to amaze me how Lan Wangji, who is shown to never speak down to the children that are under his care, nor does he ever physically slap one to the point they reel down, is called an abusive mean caretaker for continuing to implement hand stands as his form of discipline. Which ironically does have the benefit of growing their strength more so than their impromptu and can be dangerous night hunting, that he also does not tell them to discontinue to foster their own will for independence and free thought during said disciplinary practice he implements.

Yet for the likes of Jiang Cheng and Madam Yu their physical aggression which is called an outlet for their anger and hate only, is said to be seen as love. A child flinching from your hand is a reaction of negative connotation to that action and preparation to tighten up in the expectation of that pain. It is not something to dismiss and downplay as it is and has been proven that corporal punishment is not and has not been an effective form of "discipline" for children and only fosters fear and their own aggression to which affects their own self worth and esteem to act out even further in the hopes of garnering positive attention from their well meaning actions and their further dangerous actions to receive a positive one from the one that implements corporal punishment only as discipline.

Jin Ling is a victim of childhood abuse from a caretaker and reacts as such, no matter how many times you say Jiang Cheng loves him. His love is not and was not a positive force for Jin Ling.

[undercover-stories]

Read a post that called Wen Ning cruel for the gcr and it pissed me off because again it's a show of a deliberate malicious misreading of an event specifically to unfairly bash one character to make another character look significantly better forgetting how

1)Jiang Cheng has been shitty towards Wei Ying the whole time since he got back. Blaming him for things that weren't his fault. Deliberately telling Jin Ling half truths about how his parents died which directly lead to Wei Ying getting severely hurt. We don't even see Jiang Cheng take accountability for any of this. The only time he's forced into realizing he was culpable for what happened to Wei Ying to some extent is when Jin Guangyao had to spell it out for him

2) the only reason Wen Ning stepped in and revealed the truth was because

a) Jiang Cheng was accusing Wei Ying as being the main cause of the attack on Lotus Pier. Something Wen Ning of all people would know is wrong because the Wens were going to attack regardless. If you believe in the idea that Wei Ying was in anyway culpable for the massacre, then congratulations, you've fallen for the propaganda. Because no, an act of genocide falls solely on the ones doing it. No one else. Not an unruly kid and not even on Madame Yu even though it's arguable that she could have bought the Jiang Clan some time if she hadn't gone on the offense and whipped Wang Lingjiao which triggered Wen Zhuliu. But I digress.

b) Jiang Cheng was actively attacking Wei Ying and no it didn't matter of Wei Ying supposedly started it (I say this because I disagree that he did but that's among the accusations that are made). Wei Ying was currently incapable of defending himself and Lan Zhan had his hands full with him , and that's the only reason Wen Ning intervened. He'd been passive since he got back. Only defending himself when others were on the offensive and this was one of them

Wen Ning wasn't cruel. He was honest. He was forcing Jiang Cheng to accept the truth he'd been denying for 13 years. During which he used that denial to actively cause pain to others like his lies to Jin Ling about his parents death, his verbal abuse, his obsession with hunting down users of demonic cultivation. If Wen Ning revealing the truth was cruelty, then what the hell has Jiang Cheng been doing?

[lavender-phoenix-flames]

"Jc AnTI's are so jobless the are so obsessed with jc, they should cope"

Says the ppl who rewrote the whole novel and made up stuff with no proof or evidence just to 'like' their fave. Constantly harassing and discoursing with people if they disagree with their deluded opinions calling them 'anti'.

Babying a whole ass adult man and "wwx is an unreliable narrator aksually you should look at both sides" while they parade jc's words like it's the ultimate truth. Making up millions of excuses for his abusive and toxic behavior that harms jin ling and people around him. Undermining the effects of the abuse that jl goes through and blaming wwx for shit he didn't do. Holding wwx responsible for deaths of jiangs and yanli even when they know he wasn't at fault here. And worst of all saying "mxtx doesn't understand her own characters" like be for fucking real. In jc stans minds everything jc does is justified they will not show any proof for thier arguments but seethes at the facts we dared to point it out to them.

If engaging in fandom discussions makes someone jobless than every fricking person on tumblr is unemployed lmao.

Now they wanna barge in on canon jc tag and say "this is slander and bashing of my lil meow meow tsundere angry grape, you anti!!!😡" meanwhile the text itself presents and highlights jc's behavior in a negative light. Ask them to present proof of 'jc good natured behavior' and they are blank or they would post/take shit completely out of context.

In conclusion there is no point in arguing with jc stans who have completely and willingly let go of any kind of sensibility, logic, and chose to accept their delusions. Also canon jc fans and "jc antis" y'all are doing great, mxtx is proud of us. Keep discussing canon jc more so than ever. We don't need to make another tag, let's protect this one.

[dark-elf-writes]

Jiang Cheng starts throwing Wei Wuxian failures and presumed crimes at his feet and Shen Yuan goes “UNO Reverse. Let’s see how you like it”

Jiang Cheng does not like it at all and takes it with none of the grace or humility Wei Wuxian does

Shen Yuan was going to sit back and watch to assess where things were going and where would be the weakest point for him to attack.

Airplane Bro had been teaching him that.

Shifu had been teaching him that.

(It wouldn’t be hard to find a weak point in this group of people. Not with the secrets Sect Leader Nie had been so willing to hand out to anyone who would listen. Secrets and truths of how Shimu had really died in his original world. What they had pushed him to become then tried to snuff out.)

Then Sect Leader Jiang — one of the people that Shimu had spent years mourning, a man with the chance to see his brother again after death and transmigration had torn them apart — snarled at his Shimu with rage in his eyes.

“So you get to come here and play happy family when you are the reason Jin Ling grew up without his parents?”

Wei Wuxian, the man who had single handedly fought off a demon invasion without a hint of fear, flinched.

And Shen Yuan saw red.

“Who the fuck do you think you are, you second-rate wannabe?” He demanded, shoving past Binghe to stand between the sect leader and Shimu. “What? Mommy and daddy were mean to you so you think you can take it out on the other person they abused?”

He didn’t know everything he said. Had checked out somewhere between calling a sect leader “the worst kind of low IQ canon fodder rival who couldn’t even die properly” and telling him to “shove that stupid ring up your ass to keep the stick up there company.”

All he knew was that Shimu had mourned for him. This man who had helped orchestrate the murder of the last of his own family by allowing himself to be led blindly along by a half-rate villain with no other motivation than his own daddy issues. This man who had led the siege that killed most of Shimu’s own family that he had built after losing everything.

Who would have likely killed all of them is Shimu hadn’t been smart enough to hide Wen Yuan away before the fighting started.

He had known there were no fighters in the burial mounds. Had known there was a child. Had known the loss of Jiang Yanli had shattered Wei Wuxian so completely that he had used the very thing he had sworn would never be used again.

He had led the charge anyway.

Shen Yuan didn’t even hear the crack of electricity of the roaring of his own blood on his ears, but he did feel the two pairs of hands that pulled him out of them way before the whip could strike. Did see the body that moved between them to shield him from another blow.

Shimu was shaking with fury (Or maybe Binghe was shaking pressed against Shen Yuan’s back and trying to turn them so he was between Shen Yuan and danger. Or maybe it was Shen Yuan himself that was shaking.) and dark tendrils of resentment curled over his outstretched arms. Blocking the furious Jiang Sect Leader form Shen Yuan. Standing unflinching in the face of the whip that still crackled between them.

For a long moment, it was like the very world held its breath.

Shen Yuan had a sinking suspicion he had only made things worse.

[mxtxfanatic]

hi! i really like your posts and i hope your journey on learning chinese and translating tgcf goes smoothly!

to the point: do we even know what exactly mxy did while he was living in the koi tower? i know a lot of ppl have this fanon that he was helping jgy and xy in their experiments but i don't remember this being in the book. he was brought into the clan at 14 and then was evicted, so to say, bc of the scandal with jgy. when he returned he acted really weird like he was deathly afraid of sth and was called a lunatic

so the question is: do we know anything else? i can't really remember 🤔 and i don't trust this whole fanon about him being in on the experiments thing. he also was either somehow controlled by jgy or didn't understand that jgy was framing him with this whole "in love with a half-brother" thing bc if he was of clear mind and knew that jgy was the one responsible for kicking him out, why did he want to take revenge only against the mo family and not him?

Hello!

As far as I know, there’s nothing in the text that supports Mo Xuanyu having been one of the cultivators tasked with researching Wei Wuxian’s cultivation (I specifically looked for this during one of my read-throughs and found no evidence for this claim). The “acting weird” bit can also be explained easily by trauma: the fact that he was kicked out of his father’s clan after his mother basically staked her reputation on his father coming to claim him and killed herself upon his eviction, that this was done by the brother he admired to the extreme, and that this public rejection led to him losing the scant protection his father’s reputation as an important cultivator gave him, leading to him being horrendously abused by his aunt’s family are more than enough to drive a person mad on their own, let alone combined. There’s nothing that says or implies that he was acting strangely because he was afraid of some specific, unknown source.

In regards to his feelings on Jin Guangyao, this can also be easily explained: he loved and trusted his brother. Incestuous infatuation accusations aside, Jin Ling says that Mo Xuanyu used to take anything Jin Guangyao said to him as law. Chances are that Jin Guangyao—ever the perfect victim—wasn’t the one who threw the accusation at Mo Xuanyu and, instead, manipulated events so that someone else would come to that conclusion, publicly accuse Mo Xuanyu of incestuous sexual harassment, and then only after being pressed by the rest of the clan to remove Mo Xuanyu—because kind, virtuous Jin Guangyao would obviously rather suffer hardship than take the initiative to harm someone else, even if they deserved it! (🙄)—would he exile the poor kid, telling him “Nobody listens to me when I explain it, there’s really nothing I can do 🤷🏻” So it makes sense that Mo Xuanyu would have no target of hatred in the Jin Clan, because Jin Guangyao would have made it so that the kid thinks his downfall was all just some little oopsie-daisy that absolutely nobody could defend him from.

[ladesisesansdessein]

Link Click EP9 infodump compilation

So episode 9 was 100% infodump for the sake of viewers with 0% plot progression for the characters. Which feels like really bad writting? Which is disappointing because had they done it in a more organic way to communicate that info (for example, showing the fox story being told by Tianxi to Qiao Ling), I would have absolutely adore the fairy tale/theatrical way of doing exposition.

So what did we learn that was important?

So shoutout @mimicha-arts for guessing Qian Jin wife was an actress. And I guess the contradictory story about the venue between her and the male lead (Zhuang) is supposed to be a clue that she is cheating on him with him?

Added to him catching her doing a phone call in secret it might have raised his paranoia... although I think the back pain/weight gain comments might be hints that she is pregnant and trying to hide it? And he misunderstood?

And his talk with Xiao Li while drunk most likely happened after her death, which is weird. Why talking about the cheating after her death? Unless it's common knowledge the connection between the suspect and her. But I am starting to think he was involved in is wife's death?

As for why he cried after being told she was pregnant, I can see two scenario. 1) Final proof without any doubt that she was cheating on him because they didn't "do it" in months and until now it was only circonstantial evidences 2) Proof that all the secrecy wasn't because of cheating but because she wanted to surprise him with a 3 month pregnancy announcement. I tend to go with option 2 for the extra tragic but who knows?

So now we know a bit more about what happened with the twins parents, it was mutual murder. Although as some have mentionned, the scene of Qian Jin meeting with the twins is different between EP8 and EP9? I guess EP8 is what really happened and EP9 is a theatrical representation of what happened? Of how eventually Tianchen confess to Qian Jin he is the one who killed them by possessing them, Qian Jin believes him and hatch a plan of burying the case in order to "use" the twins? With Tianchen approving but not Tianxi?

The twins live with Qian Jin. Tianchen told his friend what happened and everyone is just way to chill about him possessing someone.

So, Tianchen friend's name is Liu and has a private driver, so most likely he is Liu Min's little brother the mentionned Liu Xiao.

Ok, so Liu Min tricked Qian Jin and Tianchen to visit him under the pretense he is his father. That happened before he gets paralysed since we can see him move his legs. Somehow he knows that they commit murders and coincidently his first target is the neighbour... which could explain why they were so willing (at first anyway) to murder the people Liu Min chose. Meaning the police is wrong and there is way more than 8 cases starting with Emma. Although... now I wonder why the method changed? Most likely red eyes would make people commit suicide such as with Emma's case to be untraceable... maybe seeing Cheng Xiaoshi inspired them? Like, willingly creating a series of odd cases using Liu Min's body to attract the police/person on the bridge attention, mislead them and catch them off guard?

The fox story is interesting. So now we know why Tianchen disliked the neighbour so much, his rumour spreading along with door guy contributed to worsening the abuse. Also interesting that Tianxi cannot recall what hapened at all at the same time Cheng Xiaoshi was forcefully kicked out. Since everyone possessed by Tianchen cannot recall what happened at all, I guess he possessed her and used her power to possess the mom? Then we see Liu Xiao handing out a bow. Does she know him or she figured his brother's friend manipulated him into killing birds (most likely all the "not innocent" victims of red eye) and didn't dare interfere? All those shots of touching her in her sleep. Did he commit most of his murders by possessing her while she was sleeping, assuming she has the power to possess people if she has a picture of them?

Then the "bunny" incident, which leads to her running away. So, who is the bunny protecting the two smaller bunnies? If I had to bet, the big bunny is Chen Bin. That's why we had a flashback of him. We know Qian Jin and him stayed in contact (close enough to randomly drop to visit without anyone thinking it is weird at least), so it's not too weird to think he knew the twins if they lived with Qian Jin? It could explain why he wants a daughter so much if he sometime had to watch Tianxi and they got along. And it would explain why she "betrayed" her brother and Qian Jin after that specific death. But then again, the brother did miss the shot, so maybe it's someone else...

And those shots of the mom and Chen Bin saying sorry... If my hypothesis of Tianxi being close to Chen Bin is right, both were people who most likely tried to protect her, failed and got killed because of it? Sorry indeed...

While we still don't know what she did exactly and why, I think she at least :

Took the phone. We know the phone is missing (since Tianchen and Qian Jin works closely together, unlikely he would lie about that) and the person who took the phone didn't speak (hint it's Tianxi)

Gave the picture to Lu Guang. Again, that person didn't speak or tried to hurt Lu Guang, making it more likely to be Tianxi and not Tianchen. Also, I can't see a reason for Tianchen to give them that picture with that message? Why would he want the police to dig up that old crime proving they have powers and are connected to Qian Jin?

Ran off. Pretty obvious from the info in EP8 and 9. Most likely so they can't get the phone and use her powers to kill more people.

[volchyayagoda]

me being annoying about a fictional man for a minute

i really don't care if ppl like jiang cheng or not but oh my god his haters are fucking annoying. i won't even get into how badly they interpret his rship with wwx EXCEPT 2 SAY that ppl calling jiang cheng an abuser is such an absurd and willfully stupid reading that it makes me scream. so much of it is hardcore projection mixed with ultra woobification of wwx lmfao i wish people could just accept that not every complicated and/or bad relationship is abusive. the text makes it soooo insanely clear that their rship is broken and messy bc of mistakes they both made and things that were also outside of their control like the fucking big bads orchestrating catastrophic events that ruined their fucking lives lmfao

ANYWAY

the thing i saw that made me black out was someone saying they refused to believe jc actually helped raise jin ling and that he was raised mostly by jin guangyao which lol. lmao. jgy himself remarks that jc "loves [jin ling] the most", and it's stated that jin ling spends half the year w jc and half w jgy. jc is protective of jl to a fault, spoils him, and proves several times over that he'd rather die than let anything happen to him, and is the person who protects and looks out for his best interests post-canon. and jin ling Adores him lmao like you can hate jiang cheng all you want, but it's plain text that he's a loving uncle and guardian, and his best rship in the series is with jin ling. i think what kills me about this in particular is that these same people insist that if you "actually read the books", you'll know that jc is an evil abuser, and then apparently get amnesia about all the things in the books that contradict their headass takes.

jc stans can be fucking annoying and pretend that he has no flaws and woobify him and that ALSO sucks and i hate them, too. if people don't stop boiling him down to a stupid one dimensional caricature of himself i am going to start biting.

anyway the point here is that i'm right and everyone else is wrong and they don't know how to fucking read. the end

[llycaons]

ep48 (1/3): thank fucking god jc and wwx are finally talking it out

this was sweet. when does lwj ever defend someone to wwx rather than vice versa? but he dutifully reports than wen ning didn't do this happily

wwx rolling his eyes like 'oh GOD here we go again'

okay okay but I am so excited for this because I truly believe this is jc's absolutely best scene best monologue best interaction with wwx in the SHOW. finally everything coming to light! finally communication! finally a solid closure to the rage and grief that has torn them apart! but first it displays all of jc's issues and problems so so clearly

and it start off with jc bitterly praising wwx for being such a saint. which I really enjoy on a writing level, because it's very self-aware. it's easy as a reader to think that jc should bow down in gratitude, but jc as a character has a lot of pride and judges things very differently - he's a living, breathing, thinking character who has his own beliefs, principles, grudges, and motivations

I don't even know how to describe this. mocking praise? it's very characteristic of jc of this arc. sarcastic, insecure, and bitter, keenly aware of wwx's achievements and virtues and resenting him for them. idk what he wants wwx to do...obviously he's not thinking rationally but wwx can't help being good at stuff

he's making wwx entirely responsible for his feelings. not even 'you did this and I felt this way' but 'you are this way and I'm different and it's your fault that I'm not as good'

not even forgiving the debt owed from all those decades ago, even knowing the truth! he also has a big victim complex - even when wwx was being disrespected and even abused in ways jc wasn't, he still remembers it the way it'll suit his needs. no capacity to consider wwx's troubles or suffering. absolutely no emotional imagination. not that being low-empathy makes you a bad person, but the way he acted has never been part of a healthy relationship w wwx

this moment captures him SO well. while castigating wwx about jin ling, jin ling himself tries to reach out - to comfort or dissuade. and jc throws him off, impatient and angry and entirely focused on the object of his revenge rather than the living child he claims to be trying to protect, the child who's right there asking for his attention

this also feels very self-aware of the writing. almost...lampshading? not the right term. it feels fair and right that one major character close to wwx, and sympathetic despite his behavior, is holding wwx to task for this. I am obviously on wwx's side, but it makes sense than people would be upset but what happened and it feels very honest to allow jc this bitterness and anger rather than forcing everyone in the story to immediately forgive and love him. it adds texture and complexity to the characters and the world, and it makes actions like lwj's more significant. jc was never going to be the partner wwx needed, and that's extremely important to the story

another fair accusation. on the other hand it was pretty clear wwx was majorly depressed after the war and while jc might have been angry with him for drinking, he only responded with punishment instead of, idk, compassion for the other sibling who lost his entire home and family? jc didn't talk to wwx either

I read this as jc angry with himself for not being able to truly hate wwx, and blaming wwx himself for...not being hateable? it's very convoluted. jc needs so much therapy

CLOWN MOMENT

wwx touching lwj's hand to prevent him from jumping to wwx's defense, jl interpreting lwj leaning forward as him about to attack, and jc tearfully saying "I can take him!! you think I'm scared of him?" a lot going on here

oof. ough

there it is 😭 circumstances of the past aside, I'm glad they made it this point

...is that a smile? I can't even tell I swear

and NOW he's calling HIMSELF pathetic for even caring that much. my guy I think easing off on being judgemental towards yourself and your loved ones might help

JIANG CHENG APOLOGY EVENT CATCH IT ONCE EVERY TWENTY YEARS 🎇🎉🎈🎁

I can't tell if this is putting distance between jc and wwx (bc wwx is saying he did it as payment) or bringing them closer (bc wwx is saying there's no need for jc to regret or agonize over the past anymore)

I forgot how satisfying this scene was. wwx went through so many trials and despite the residual trauma, he really feels like he's able to move on. and that can include jc too

🥺🥺🥺

I believe in yunmeng sibling reconciliation!!! this was a really hopeful and honest and cathartic discussion and I feel really good about their future relationship. I get caught up in the scenes before this and I just a lot of jc fic writers on it, but after this scene I can def see their dynamic becoming much less antagonistic. wwx isn't joking about his pain or making excuses for jc or talking about how much he likes to be mistreated - he's gentle and honest and real. and he wants to move on. finally. finally they got there

[theartisticdoofus]

look, coming from someone whose parents have a similar parenting style to jc i...

you are blatantly ignoring the nuance of abuse. has jc probably hit jin ling before? yep. has jin ling's self worth, self esteem or knowledge that jc will love and protect him no matter what been compromised? you can argue for the first 2 but i accept no arguements for the third. jc can arguably be called an abuser in the same way i can arguably call my parents who loved, protected and supported my dreams abusers because they have hit me and said very hurtful things to me before (i'm not saying this is ok, it isn't and this has negatively impacted my self-esteem although i would NOT call myself an abuse victim because i am very much not and don't want to replace other ACTUAL SURVIVORS experience and i would also NOT EVER CALL. MY PARENTS abusers either but i'm pointing out the issue is much more complex than just saying 'they are an abuser and thus the worst person ever' and i can somewhat relate to jin ling. a lot actually fourteen year old me IS HIM with the superiority and inferiority complexes but different enough to be comfy.). also, i think you are also forgetting that the setting of this story is in ancient 'physical punishment is totes fine' china in the setting of a cultivation sect and most importantly ignoring jc's own trauma. jin ling's pain will not go ignored, but jc's will? remember how madame yu pit jc against wwx and used him as a weapon during her maritial spats with jfm? that was abuse too, why are you ignoring that? madame yu also likely physically abused (not in the stereotypical 'throw him across the room intot he wall' way, cause that's not how most parents who genuinely love their children abuse their children.). in general, i'd call mmd yu's behaviour much more

now this might just be me projecting like wild onto jl but if i had to talk about his feelings toward jc as his major parental figure and also the person who has betrayed his trust in him as a major parental figure by hitting him, i'd say that he would be conflicted because as i said, for the parent figure, it's just punishment but for the reciever it's a massive breach of trust from a person that they know loves them very much and would literaly fight god to protect them but they are causing you physical pain and even if you've gotten used to it, it still hurts but you still love them because of course you do they are the person who would defend you to the end of th eearth and you'd do the same but that doesn't excuse the fact that they have hurt you and think of it as nothing more but punishment. combine this with ancient china's normalized corporal punishment protocol and you have a full bouquet full of very conflicted feelings. in this context as we do not know if jc has hit jin ling before and to what degree and how often, i- i am not at all qualified to say if he's an abuser or not.

look i- please don't reduce jc's identity to one character trait.

*grabs megaphone*

JC is an abuser!!!!!

When will some in the fandom learn the JC is both physically and mentally abusive to his nephew JL.

But...but... But nothing!

JC hits JL on a number of occasions, slapping him so hard he knocks him to the ground!

You cannot ignore the fact he hits him... It's in the text.

Even the heavy breaths Jin Ling heaved carried a metallic scent. “No, I…” Jiang Cheng immediately smacked him to the ground. “No?! Then I’ll give you some injuries to teach you a lesson! Stinkin’ brat, you think my words are nothing but empty air?!” he scolded.

This isn't abusive?!

Jin Ling leapt in front of Jiang Cheng in a panic. “Hanguang-jun! My uncle is injured…” Jiang Cheng smacked him to the ground. “Let him come at me! You think I’m afraid, Lan-er?!”

Or this?

None of this is okay. Both times it was totally uncalled for. It's aggressive and just not excusable in the slightest.

Even at the beginning of the novel we can see JCs abusive nature coming through. He wants to hit JL, but he can't because there are too many people around... That is classic abuser 101 stuff right there.

"He only hit him during the course of the novel, he had not hit him before that." I hear one JC stan cry!

You don't know that! You're just plucking things from your ass. In fact, the way JL reacts and it's a normal occurrence for him to hide out at Golden Carp Tower whenever JCs temper erupts... I'd say there's evidence to the contrary to be honest.

Get over it and stop literally rewriting characters because there's things you don't like about them. Move and find one you don't have to make shit up about.

[qiu-yan]

my personal jiang cheng morality wank

things i do kind of side-eye jiang cheng for:

trying to strangle wei wuxian after the fall of lotus pier

torturing wen chao to death with wei wuxian

not suggesting to wei wuxian and the wen remnants that the wen remnants change their names and go into hiding, instead of living super conspicuously together in the burial mounds. i side-eye mxtx for this one more tho bc it does kind of seem like the option just never occurred to her

being rude to wen ning when he and jiang yanli secretly visited wei wuxian in the burial mounds to show wei wuxian yanli's wedding robes

saying that wei wuxian caused jiang yanli's death

not just participating in, but leading the first siege of the burial mounds

not being more openly affirming of jin ling

placing incredibly high expectations for achievement on jin ling that jin ling feels pressured to fulfill

not doing more for the common people of yunmeng as leader of the yunmeng jiang sect

calling jin guangyao a son of a whore

not telling wei wuxian how he actually lost his golden core

things i do not blame jiang cheng for:

trying to keep wei wuxian from harassing lan wangji during the cloud recesses lectures

telling wei wuxian to mind how the latter's actions reflect on yunmeng jiang

being verbally acerbic to wei wuxian

holding wei wuxian back after wen chao tried to use mianmian as living bait in the xuanwu cave

telling wei wuxian not to stick his neck out for lan wangji and mianmian and getting annoyed when he did

blaming wei wuxian for the fall of lotus pier

not realizing that wei wuxian was lying about baoshan sanren

not realizing that wei wuxian no longer had a golden core

being okay with jiang yanli marrying jin zixuan

not officially standing by wei wuxian and the wen remnants, and instead publicly expelling wei wuxian from the yunmeng jiang sect

stabbing wei wuxian in the abdomen during their public break-up fight

blaming wei wuxian for jin zixuan's death

being angry with wei wuxian over jiang yanli's death

any rumors and/or hearsay about the alleged torture and execution of demonic cultivators

""""abusing'""" jin ling

trying to exorcise wei wuxian's spirit from mo xuanyu's body with zidian

using fairy the dog to confirm wei wuxian's identity in qinghe

being verbally acerbic to jin ling

threatening to break jin ling's legs

smacking jin ling when jin ling kept trying to rush into battle at the second siege of the burial mounds

being angry with wei wuxian and lan wangji for entering his ancestral hall

physically fighting back when wei wuxian turned the verbal confrontation at the ancestral hall into a physical one

not somehow figuring out the truth of the golden core reveal any time before wen ning told him about it

being upset with wei wuxian for not telling him about the golden core transfer

being upset that wei wuxian broke his promise to be the twin heroes of yunmeng with jiang cheng

[admirableadmiranda]

I keep seeing the idea that Jiang Cheng is disliked or hated for his actions because "Jiang Cheng Antis” refuse to acknowledge ugly reactions to trauma, or victims who aren’t perfect, basically citing that he should be forgiven more than we do because not everyone is going to react the same to pain and trauma and just because his reactions aren’t perfect doesn’t mean that he should be held accountable for his actions, any of them, and us calling his actions wrong or abuse is us in fact being terrible.

I want to refute this idea for a few reasons:

First off, while I can’t speak for everyone, I know that I and my friends don’t think that his initial reactions being kinda bad are necessarily damning. Nobody is going to be perfect, sometimes when we are stuck in the worst parts of our lives, we do things that we will later regret in the process of surviving those times. It doesn’t really make it okay and we should understand if the people who are around us in those times don’t want to be around us anymore after that, but it isn’t a death knell that he reacts really poorly after the initial fall of Lotus Pier and the death of his parents and everyone he’s grown up with. I have forgiven characters for doing worse, but proving that it was their worst and turning around after that.

The problem with that part is that he doesn’t turn anything around. He never apologizes for strangling Wei Wuxian, he continues to turn the blame for what happened on people who weren’t involved even after getting to kill Wen Zhuliu and torture Wen Chao to death, holding Wei Wuxian, Lan Wangji and, for a time, Jin Zixuan as also being responsible even though none of them were, even though he knows this and adjusts his opinion later to drop Jin Zixuan out of the blame, even though he later adds Wen Ning to his list of those to blame despite Wen Ning rescuing him from Lotus Pier and sheltering him. It isn’t a worst moment of his life, brought on by trauma and pain, it’s just the start of his sliding slope downward.

Second off is the idea that this should exonerate him of all of his actions. Look at him! He lost his parents and his clan to war by the Wens! He has suffered so much, becoming a clan leader so young in the fires of war!!!

Except... he’s not the only one, not by a long shot. Lan Wangji, Lan Xichen, Nie Mingjue and Nie Huaisang all have their fathers killed and their homes attacked by the Wens as well. Both Nie Mingjue and Lan Xichen also ascend at very young ages, no one was over twenty when they took up their positions, and at the end of the novel, Jin Ling is even younger when he takes on his own clan leader position. Also he isn’t the only one to go into war so young, Wei Wuxian is a whole five days older than he is, and the whole jianghu falls into war against the Wens, no doubt with other fighters who also lost their homes and families in the process.

It isn’t that it isn’t impressive that he manages to pull it together in the face of all that’s happening, it’s that he’s not the only person by any means to suffer this trauma. Wei Wuxian goes through the exact same journey that he does, but when this argument comes up, it’s always just for why Jiang Cheng shouldn’t be blamed, not about how their whole generation lost so much to a war that their parents left to them by refusing to do anything before even when they all saw the signs of what Wen Ruohan was doing.

The third part is that there’s apparently no limit or expiration date on how long people have to forgive him for doing whatever he wants to do. His trauma is a reason for him to treat people however he wants for as long as he wants, and they should just put up with it because he’s suffering and not all pain is beautiful.

But by the time Wei Wuxian comes back to life, it’s been almost twenty years. A whole generation, long enough for Jiang Cheng to watch his nephew grow to almost adulthood. The world as a whole is changed, he himself has transformed Lotus Pier into a whole new place; and it wasn’t because the Wens had destroyed everything, Wei Wuxian no longer recognizes it, meaning that this happened after he died. The general attitude that JC stans have towards Wei Wuxian is that he shouldn’t hold Jiang Cheng leading a siege against him because it’s been long enough, he should get over it by now. But Jiang Cheng apparently should still get to act without hesitation or consideration of others and their own pain because he is suffering, he is an imperfect victim. It doesn’t matter what else anyone else has gone through and it is unreasonable to hold him to task because he lost his family.

The whole point of poor trauma reactions is that they are moments, responses in time to events. It is one thing for Jiang Cheng to react poorly right after his family is killed and his home invaded. But he gets worse over the course of the story. The day of the attack, he strangles Wei Wuxian. That’s one thing. But three years later he turns on Wei Wuxian, declares him an enemy of the world, tells him to let the Wens be slaughtered even though they are no longer at war, later declares war on Wei Wuxian and personally leads a siege to kill him. In the interim, a time of peace in which supposedly all of his enemies are dead, he hunts down people who he claims to be demonic cultivators and people that Wei Wuxian is possessing and tortures them to death, all the while doing very little to help his people as he will only intervene once someone has already died to the problem. When Wei Wuxian returns to life thirteen years after he died, seventeen years after the war, when Jiang Cheng is literally double the age that this began, despite him deliberately trying to avoid Jiang Cheng, Jiang Cheng seeks him out multiple times specifically to hurt him, first trying to kill him with a whip that can destroy spirits possessing bodies, then tying him up and torturing him with a dog. Later he leads a second siege upon Wei Wuxian, who still has done nothing to him aside from try to avoid him before later attacking him and Lan Wangji by first demanding that they leave, then refusing to let them do so, driving Wei Wuxian to a qi deviation (which can be fatal, that’s how Nie Mingjue died) and attacking Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian with Zidian while Wei Wuxian is unconcious before Wen Ning stops him. Even in the temple, he’s still demanding that Wei Wuxian play by his rules of debts, he’s upset because he knows that he has gone so much farther than anyone has any right to and he has nothing to hold over Wei Wuxian’s head anymore.

Fifteen years of hurting everyone around him isn’t a poor trauma response. That’s deliberate and chosen. That is what he wants to do. It is a clear line of events where in the end, the trauma is an excuse over anything else.

If it had ended at the beginning of this list, Jiang Cheng would be a very different character and Modaozushi would be a very different novel. If it were just a trauma reaction and he didn’t want to hurt anyone in the long run, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

But you cannot exonerate everything with the fact that his parents died when he was seventeen. Especially not when we have so many other people who react in so many other ways to the same pain. It is frankly ridiculous that people think he is the only one to suffer in the story, even though it is clear that no one escapes the novel unscathed and a hell of a lot of people die. Sometimes even at his hands or by his orders.

Jiang Cheng is not unsympathetic. I can understand what hurts he feels, at least to an extent. But an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind and he just keeps doing it. And then his stans show up and claim that it’s fine for him to want to kill everyone who he hates (not necessarily everyone who’s even done him wrong, and they certainly like to ignore everything he does to them) because he’s an ugly trauma victim.

He may be that, at the start. But twenty years down the line, when he gets excited at the thought of getting to torture people, that isn’t a trauma reaction anymore.

That’s a choice.

[ultfreakme]

I feel like we're just going to fundamentally disagree on a lot of things, but there are plenty of stuff here that I agree with as well. Regardless we've both interpreted the story differently but.....I think there's some, factual errors here? I am not going to make you change your mind or anything consider this just me explaining my perspective on things.

I agree that:

Jiang Cheng was a victim of child abuse

Jiang Cheng was brought up in a manner where he was constantly told Wei Wuxian should be lower than him

Wei Wuxian was her tool for projection of her own issues with her marriage

Pretty much every single character made the system go on and did nothing to change things

But I disagree, and can kinda prove wrong a lot of things here:

JGS & WRH aren't involved in WWX's downfall Firstly, I didn't want to make it seem like they were the reason WWX suffered. I brought them and the old gen up because they ALL uphold the hierarchy. We have a very direct example of JGS messing with JC and thereby WWX actually:

Exiled Rebel Translation; Chapter 73

JGS called on this meeting for two big reasons; his hatred for WWX and to turn JC against him. At this point in time, JC doesn't know WWX's motivations because WWX hasn't been communicating with him(this SPECIFICALLY, this lack of communication, is what led to 99% of their interpersonal issues). JC also has the least amount of power during the flashbacks, and JGS is not afraid to lord that power over him. This transition neatly into the next point-

2. Jiang Cheng benefited from being a sect leader/ young master

JC during the flashbacks didn't do anything, not because he was adhering to the system, but because he genuinely had no choice. If Gusu Lan or Lanling Jin decided they were going to host the Wen remnants, no one really could've done anything but YMJ, as the main sect, was just JC & JYL as opposed to the remaining sects which had most of their members and infrastructure. Yes he had the privilege of "sect leader" and the name but it is utterly useless when even WWX himself was comparing the Lanling Jin's power-hoarding to be similar to the Wens.

JC's power was meager. More than WWX, sure, but nearly enough. The power gap here is genuinely vast considering that YMJ was annihilated. WWX acknowledged this, hence the mutually agreed defection.

3. JC did not kick WWX out, this was a mutual decision initiated by WWX

And there just is no point in the story when JC is showing off how rich he is on his own, verbally. He is wealthy after the time-skip, he can spoil Jin Ling, but there have been zero instances of him being specifically proud of his wealth? Like that's never a point that comes up. It happens with JGS and the Wen but that's about it. YMJ and Qinghe Nie are never shown to put too much emphasis on wealth.

4. Jiang Yanli sacrificed herself

She did not. She went into the battlefield to search for WWX. We never know why she did it, but her getting herself killed would've done nothing and she didn't intend to die that day.

We see that it was an accident, and the text itself says she wouldn't be able to say something like "I forgive you" or "it's okay" because it is false.

JC has every right to be mad at WWX for JYL's death because, he, unlike the reader, doesn't know what happened. Even if WWX directed WN in self-defense, it doesn't change the fact that he fucked up and killed JC's brother-in-law and his sister. WWX himself never tries to justify it. Now, were there other causes like his mental state and being shot and and the chaos of the situations making him lose control? Yes.

Does JC know this? No. Because all he knows is that WWX wants nothing to do with him, he's sided with the Wen, they've already staged a public falling-out so he can't just waltz in and ask, and the remaining cultivator sects are the ones informing him. Rgardless of this, he still maintains the right to blame WWX for it because WWX cannot dictate how anyone reacts to what are ultimately his actions. JC was under the impression that WWX was in full-control both during JZX and JYL's deaths.

Would WWX saying to, say, JYL, "I didn't meant it, I was just trying to protect myself" really make her grieve her husband less or completely absolve WWX in her eyes of any blame? Not really?

JC told him to stop the WN revival thing- WN killed JZX. Even WQ and WWX admit that there's just no excuse on this one, regardless of WWX's turmoil.

Jiang Yanli wanted to see WWX and wanted him to stop but she herself couldn't deny that WWX was to blame for her husband's death. Again this wasn't a sacrifice, no one in canon sees it as such.

Here comes my interpretation of the text now:

Comparing cultivation sects to billionaires is just, wrong tbh. I think you're taking a very western approach to all of this. Cultivation sects are in fact, rich, but that is not the only thing giving them power. Legacy and centuries of history, their cultivation techniques, and their individual customs and cultures upheld for years is what gives them this power.

The best comparison here would be like.....monarchy? Royal family? Even then it isn't particularly correct because each sect is community of its own through having members with familial relations and trained outer disciples. Money doesn't define sects, though it is a matter of importance for people like JGS and WRH.

Dismantling the sect system would mean dismantling communities. It would mean a removal of culture(they all have their own sword techniques, individualistic rituals like forehead ribbons, clarity bells and sabres, they have their own value systems they live by, texts and craft, etc). That's why no character wants to get rid of this.

Yes the Gusu Lan are restrictive, the Qinghe Nie's sabres are destructive, etc etc but it is still a cultures. These artefacts mean something to each sect and is unfortunately tied to certain backward rules.

Jin Guangyao is the one character who tried to use his powers to make things better- he is the son of a sex worker, he knows what it is like to be underprivileged and during his time as chief cultivator did a lot of good). The watchtowers are the biggest example. Here is a good example of how these sects can repurpose their wealth to better the community.

It is a possible route, one which hopefully the newer gen will pick up as time goes on. It does suck no one else tried it but calling the sects and their leaders wealth hoarders or comparing them to billionaires strips this situation of its nuance. Especially with JC because it's only been a decade since his entire community was annihilated and so his priority would be reviving the culture of YMJ.

It's a valid critique, the sects are classisst and should do better but it's a complicated issue where to better things, potential parts of culture needs to be given up, and they have to work to find compromises and places of adjustment. It's a long process.

I'd also like to say......yeah WWX is technically lower than JC since he isn't a sect heir but he is the son of two highly famous cultivators and the first disciple of a Great Five(now Four) Sect? He is lower on the totem pole than JC, but technically so are a bunch of other people(LWJ is because he isn't a sect heir). But that is a bit disingenuous, WWX is lower. But JC has never held his background against him.

We can argue about this till the cows come home. In fact, every JC stan vs WWX stan war is fueled by this. I can bring up text, you can bring up text, then we can get lost in the meaning of the words and subtext and yada yada and I don't want to do that.

All I'll say, for my interpretation of their relationship, is that JC was fine with dying for WWX when he distracted the Wens, he begged and pleaded with his mom to spare WWX multiple times, he's made excuses for him and gone along with a lot of his plans from harmless pranks to staging a fallout, and the opening of the novel noted that JC was very sentimental about WWX to a point people sneered at JC for having that affection for him and not taking any action sooner.

Additionally WWX isn't like championing the poor or anything???? That has never, ever been his thing??? The Wen remnants are all upper class, and if the attack hadn't happened, would've been pretty high up on the hierarchy. This was WQ and WN's faction- aka the cousins, nephews, nieces, uncles, aunts of the main Wen family. They aren't poor foot soldiers- technically none of them would be because everyone in a sect is somewhat privileged merely by being in a sect and by being a cultivator.

He was fighting for them because it was unfair that a group of people who did nothing against the four sects are suffering for the contemporaries' crimes. It wasn't like, specifically a class thing, it was moreso on the idea of what is "right" and what is "wrong", morality, and there were lots of other factors discussed aside from money, like the possession of cultivation artifacts, infidelity, sect mottos, etc. I won't deny money, social position and family name played a huge part but it wasn't exactly that WWX was...fighting against like he never expressed he wanted to dismantle anything.

No one really does. MDZS isn't a story about class struggle or a commentary on dismantling that structure. WWX didn't set out on his work for that, it was a lesson he learned along the way and it's more of WWX's personal journey to recovery and learning to rely on others while examining the power of rumors and false information.

You can certainly see it as a commentary on class, especially in JGY but it's not.....really any character's motive. Not even WWX. When he says he'll walk the crooked path alone, he's not declaring the end of...fuedalism(? idk i doubt that's the right word for the sect system but it conveys the basic gist of it). He's doing it because he's morally correct in defending innocent people. Not impoverished or infleunced by a lack of money, but innocent.

I'd argue MDZS is actually more about casteism but eh po-tay-toe- po-tah-toe.

Anyways, I think wrt how we view the influence of the system on characters, we have a fundamental disagreement which I'm fine with having because I can't dictate how you view the novel. This is just my take. It's not to change your mind or anything, I just like yapping and seeing how things contrast.

Anyways~~ bye~~ this was fun

It pains me to re-read MDZS because every other line out of Jiang Cheng's mouth about Wei Wuxian is a prophecy that comes tru. "playing hero will get you killed wwx" "your reliance on your strength will doom you" "you can't take the world on alone, it'll always end bad"/ He does it for other characters too and like this man has been forseeing 20 years ahead since day one and absolutely no one believes him.

Wei Wuxian: Silly Jiang Cheng! Of course I won't die!

Wei Wuxian, 3 days later, the spirits tearing into him: I-I can't let him know he got that one right