#implied clive/jill

[suites]

i finished playing ff16 awhile back 🌚

[sorceringing]

Scenes from Clive’s childhood according to me, sobbing into my hands.

from top to bottom:

The day Anabella realised Clive would never be the Phoenix’ Dominant

Joshua awakening as the Phoenix

Jill’s first night at the Rosfield’s castle

I have a fic [here] elaborating on the different scenarios but it’s unbeta’d so read at own risk

[paint-tastes-ok]

.

[cosmic-metanoia]

The Ruler of Life and Death

***Spoilers for Final Fantasy XVI***

<Edited to add some missing scenes!> Over time, I have written several FFXVI character analysis posts and Joshua is intertwined throughout most of them.

But I held off on writing his own post because frankly...there is just too much to say. As Johnathan Case (the English VA) once said, Joshua is "full of contradictions."

But the Tumblr world deserves more Joshua so...here we are!

My angle of approach - I will choose one word that encompasses many of his astounding qualities - self-possession.

(You got it! It's a word that Jote uses in her inner voice about a completely different character.)

Self-possession doesn't just mean "control over one's emotions." Afterall - having "control" over something implies that you can lose it.

Self-possession refers to mastery over one's destiny and being a fixed point within the chaotic storm rather than being pulled under the waves.

As a child, Joshua understandably had imposter syndrome. Makes sense considering who stood beside him. His highly admired and beloved older brother who, for reasons unknown, was passed over by the Phoenix. Instead of selecting the heroic teenager, the Eikon of Fire chose the sweet and frail little brother.

Thirteen years later, we witness in awe as a well-travelled Joshua confidently strides into Drake's Head to protect Clive and Jill. Everything about him emanates self-possession - his gestures, his stance, his diction, his facial expressions. HE is the shield now and he knows exactly how this game of chess with Ultima will end. Every move is intentional.

Five years after that, we see his self-possession when he kindly turns away Kihel's offer to heal him of his blood-ridden coughs while travelling on the crystalline road with Jote. He would rather have Kihel save her medicines to help others.

And despite the couple of times he doubts his abilities to keep Ultima sealed, Joshua presses on with grace and determination.

One of the most BEAUTIFUL examples of self-possession was when he emerges uninvited in Dion's tent. The man who was supposedly dead now stands before all with complete composure and authority. Through his subtle yet monumental gestures, it is plain that Joshua holds absolute conviction in his heart that Dion will not harm him or turn him in - despite the fact that Dion's loyalties lie with the very nation that destroyed Joshua's homeland.

The chilling reunion between Joshua and Anabella really tests Joshua's self-possession in the midst of so many emotional barrages from earlier. Instead of dismissing her or ragefully calling her out for destroying so many lives, he does something extraordinary. He reaches his hand out to her in a last act of mercy that no one else was willing to give her.

Another example of self-possession is when Joshua reveals the extent of his dire situation to Clive and Jill in the infirmary after the fall of the Crystalline Dominion. Notice how he revealed it with a soft smile and a gentle voice in contrast to Clive and Jill's horror and outrage. Joshua knows the consequences of his actions and chose that path willingly without a single regret.

Joshua is far from weak. He's the only Dominant able to seal Ultima within and continuously heal himself. Yet he STILL wakes up every day to fight by Clive's side and slay every beast in their path...all with a kind smile and words of wisdom. Always mindful, always demonstrating self-possession in the midst of pain.

A small but notable dialogue exchange between the brothers is when Clive expresses concern for Joshua's ability to take on a huge ambush of beasts in Waloed. Joshua's answer is one of acknowledgement and even humor. He is clearly in command of his situation - the situation is not in command of him.

One of the most noteworthy scenes that rarely gets touched on is the battle with the Behemoth in Waloed. When Clive reaches out with his hand to stop Behemoth's meteor and wanted to prime into Ifrit, Joshua exclaimed, "Why do you turn to him, brother?! When we fight, we fight together." And does Joshua also reach out to prevent the meteor from obliterating them? Nope....he heals Clive's hand continuously - being his support and his fixed point in the sea of chaos.

And there were several emotional scenes throughout the game where Joshua is spiritually and emotionally the steadfast center in Cilve's tumultuous world as symbolized by the phoenix feather he carries.

Of course, Joshua isn't always perfect in maintaining self-possession at all times.

Generally speaking, he is patient and not easily aggravated....but when he does snap, you freaking watch and listen. I'm talking about THE infamous Clive-gets-a-hook-punch-to-the-face-from-lil-bro that was felt around the world. But even in that context, Joshua was still thinking about Jill and standing up for her.

During the VERY dangerous encounter with Barnabas on the Enterprise, symbolically speaking, Joshua dangled on the edge of the self-possession but kept one hand gripping firmly at its edge. He almost lost himself in the fires of frustration and anger that Barnabas attempted to stoke.

We also see a heart-breaking example of his self-possession - Joshua foregoing romantic attachments in order to spare them the inevitable suffering if he doesn't make it in the end.

In the end....

Despite so many fans thinking Ultima would puppet his body and/or mind, Joshua demonstrates his mastery of self-possession - literally until the moment he dies in Clive's arms.

Joshua had every reason and opportunity to be spoiled (former little prince of Rosaria), self-centered (messiah of the Undying), haughty (like Anabella), unforgiving (Phoenix Gate/Night of Flames incident), greedy (being a Dominant), and hateful (a mix of traumas within his lifetime).

But this man OWNS his trauma and processes it to make him strong in the spirit and self-sacrificing for those he loves.

Perhaps that self-possession is something we can all apply to our own lives.

[onepagelovestories]

I made a discovery/theory that I thought I might share in case it's of use or interest to anyone else!

How big is Valisthea?

TL;DR - It's just Scotland, Cymru (Wales), Ireland, and England but flipped upside-down and photo bashed a bit.

These are just purely my observations, so I'm throwing them into the void!

So, for fan fiction purposes (and just general peace of mind), I really wanted to figure out exactly how big the twins were, considering how insanely quick everyone moves around. This is obviously true for video games in general but I felt it a lot more in FFXVI than other comparable games imo.

There's not a ton to go off of, just some throwaway dialogue lines here and there that give you the general sense that you can move from one location to the next in a day or two primarily by foot (chocobos are a whole other side tangent, as is the Enterprise or whatever the hell Dominants are capable of).

Some of those specific references include;

The trip from Rosalith to Pheonix Gate and back taking an expected 5 days total (with Clive, Tyler, and Wade arriving that night despite the detour through the marshes),

The boat ride from Port Isolde to Drake's Breath taking 3 days,

Someone from the hideaway referencing that they leave for Lostwing each day for work. (Couldn't find the exact example don't quote me on that one.)

Twinsides/Origin being "Hundreds of Leagues" away from The Hideaway

There's probably a few others, but most of the other examples I could find were open to interpretation, merely implying that travel took place in the same day but could be interpreted to have been spread out over longer were it not for 'video game logic and scale'.

That being said, I like things being a little more grounded for head canon purposes and wanted to know how much down time was reasonable in and between trips back and forth.

In general, I feel like the game should have been spread out over the full 5 years. But understanding game development limits, I get why that'd have been a nightmare! So the time skip makes sense practically, and I just choose to headcanon that events are a little more spread out. (Like them taking the full year in 873, from Clive and Jills rescue to destroying Drakes Head, rather than a couple of weeks like it seems in game.)

Shout out to this reddit post for doing an awesome estimate based on an average measure of the aforementioned "hundreds of leagues" quote. This was my starting point.

They concluded that Valisthea was likely closer in size to India or Australia, which I like a lot in terms of Valisthea being a full-scale continent. However, it does mess with the timeline a lot.

Also, I'm from a large country so my sense of what is a "reasonable" distance is pretty thrown off compared to a lot of other places. A 2-5 hour (200-400km) car ride to another city is nothing in my head until you realize that distance would take 1-4 weeks to walk or even ride (Horse metrics. Again chocobos are weird and probably a bit faster due to being all terrain and more robust than horses but are also birds so I don't know what endurance levels carrying heavy loads would be like).

Soooo, I began looking for European contemporaries since the game is very eurocentric (and all the criticisms that come with that).

Which led me to the realization that Valisthea is literally just the UK and Ireland, but flipped.

Now. Am I 100% certain this is what the devs did? Of course not. Is it so damn close that I'm 99.9% certain? Yes. Storm is Britain, and Cymru. The Northern Kingdom and the Iron Kingdom are Scotland but broken up. And Ash is Ireland and Northern Ireland.

Major cities or points of interest all have approximate real-world contemporaries and even follow geographical features on the map in that there are matching rivers, topography and even highways.

The biggest giveaway to me was Pheonix Gate just literally being London, as well as Norvant Valley matching exactly in shape with an upside down Bristol Channel (which would put Caer Norvent in Swansea). Even The Greatwood lines up relative to a major national park (forgive me UK peeps, it's hard to tell from a map alone if that's all one giant forest or several parks smooshed together).

So, if we're working off that assessment, with the quote from Tomes where he mentions that Valisthea is a small continent, then the time/distance ratio makes a lot more sense!

Of course, by our world standards – the UK alone does not a continent make.

But I'm honestly ok with that? I'd rather the land mass be small to match the timeline rather than warp the timeline to match the land mass.

So, here's a list of some of my estimated real-world contemporaries for all major landmarks on the Valisthean Map. Of course, they don't line up 1-1, and are not at all reflective of the locations themselves. It's all just for a relative sense of scale.

Rosaria;

Martha's Rest - Oxford

Eastpool - Reading

Pheonix Gate - London

Rosalith - Cambridge

Port Isolde - Peterborough (ignoring that it's not on the coast)

Deadlands

Cid's Hideaway - Stratford-Upon-Avon

Clive's Hideaway - Birmingham

Sanbreque;

Lostwing - Tauton

Caer Norvent - Swansea

Northreach - Exeter

Oriflamme - Kingsbridge

Kingsfall - Salisbury

Dhalmekian Republic;

Kostnice - Leicester

Drake's Fang - Sheffield

Dhalamil - Derby

Dravozd - Wolverhampton

Tabor - Shrewsbury

Boklad - Lampeter

Ran'Dallah- Tregaron

Waloed;

Shadow Coast - Belfast

Eistla - Kinnegad

Edge of Infinity - Westport

Ravenwit Walls - Wenagh

Stonhyrr - Cork

Other;

Twinsides - Fishguard

Kanvar - Chester

Drake's Breath - Ipswich

Dzemekys - Aberystwyth

Going off of those locations, I was able to get the rough time/distance of certain trips (using google maps metrics in pure walking hours not how long it took them because of *variables*)

Routes;

Rosalith to Pheonix Gate: 86km, 20hrs

Hideaway to Pheonix Gate: 172km, 39hrs (to Martha's Rest: 67km, 15hrs; +Eastpool: 41km, 9hrs; then to Pheonix Gate: 64km, 15hrs)

Hideaway to Oriflamme: 295km, 68hrs (Hideaway to Lostwing: 184km, 43hrs. What shortcut Cid?? +Northreach: 48km, 11hrs; +Oriflamme: 63km, 14hrs)

Lostwing to Caer Norvent: 199km, 46hrs (Benedika and Co were at that fort for days, not hours. Also, how hard did Cid knock Clive out if it took more than a week to get back to the Hideaway after the Garuda Fight?)

Shadow Coast to Stonhyrr: 755km, 171hrs. (Shadow Coast to Eistla: 169km, 38hrs; +Edge of Infinity and back: 181km, 41hrs x2; +Stonhyrr: 224km, 51hrs) meaning crew were gone in Waleod for WEEKS.)

So, all in all a bit longer than in seems in game but still well within range given that they probably shaved off arbitrary travel days for narrative flow.

That being said, I love the potential of more "down time" moments. And it really shows just how often/long everyone would be gone from the Hideaway at any given moment.

It puts into perspective Gav's side quest, "You keep sending me wherever you need to, I'll keep going. Safe in the knowledge that I'll have a home to come back to." And how they all remark that they never seen each other, or how much their trips away together were really meaningful.

(Also kinda excuses the fact it took Clive and Jill 5 freaking years to get together. They were too busy walking everywhere!)

Is it possible to just pop down to Martha's for a quick supply run? Yes. But unless you're on a chocobo, you're camping out at Three Reeds then staying the night at the Inn before heading back. It's more of a 4-7 day trip rather than an afternoon and back.

Anyhow, I hope this all makes sense!

Now, time to go write about Clive/Cid camping overnight in the Greatwood together on Clive's first real night of freedom. 😭😭😭

[quillandsaber]

Let's talk about The Barn Scene

My favorite interpretation is that Clive, literally, has no idea what's going on.

Clive has been eaten alive by guilt and depression for the last thirteen years, and even very recently he's been actively suicidal (I'd argue that he's still in a state where he really shouldn't be left alone for more than ten minutes). This is pretty much uncontestable common knowledge. But what fewer people talk about is the fact he also spent thirteen years in a culture that completely desexualizes its Branded. The fact Sanbrequois Branded are forbidden from having children implies a legally-enforced level of control over their sexual activity. While it isn't a big problem that a fifteen-year-old boy is seen as a completely nonsexual entity, it becomes a problem when that fifteen-year-old boy grows into a twenty-eight year old man who has never before been viewed by anyone, including himself, as a person capable of engaging in consensual romantic/sexual intimacy.

And sure, you could argue that he'd had nearly fifteen years of basically-normal life before his enslavement, he would have had plenty of time to consider the possibility of having a (for his culture) normal future with a wife and children even if only to think it unlikely, except he didn't have a basically-normal life. His mother ground his self-esteem into the dirt, and the one thing Clive had clung to in those days was the fact he was Joshua's - the loved child's - protector. It has, quite possibly, literally never crossed his mind that someone could want to be romantically/sexually intimate with him (and if it ever did, the combination of thirteen years of Sanbrequois indoctrination and self-loathing would have come in to make him forget). It's so foreign a concept that it wouldn't even make his list of Things That Will Not Happen, because you have to be able to conceptualize something in order to declare it not possible. He does not know what he does not know.

So when Jill approaches him with clear nonverbal signals (remember that Jill was not subjected to the same desexualization), he has no idea how to interpret them even to reject the truth as an impossibility. There's probably a deep-buried primal instinct that's trying to tell him (note that he doesn't pull back right away), but that doesn't mean he understands it because the depression, anxiety, and guilt is keeping it shoved down. He's confused so he freezes; he's overwhelmed so he pulls back. And that's that.

[fancy-plans]

I know that no one follows me for final fantasy stuff, but I need to write out my thoughts/interpretation the Final Fantasy XVI ending, and tumblr allows for good spoiler protection, so forgive my indulgence.

SPOILERS AHEAD, DO NOT READ UNLESS YOU'VE BEAT FFXVI

Okay. Now, as much as I hate it, I think Dion is definitely dead, or meant to have died. While there's no question in my mind that this is the game's intent, the fate of any of the three who faced Ultima can be easily amended with enough will (hehe) or copium. We only see Dion falling, we don't see him actually die, so why can't Dion be to FFXVI what Shepard is to Mass Effect 3? Joshua (if he lived), or Terence, or Medicine Girl, can be there searching for him in the rubble, find him, heal him. But yes, for me personally this is a pure copium interpretation none-the-less.

As for Clive, I also think he is definitely dead. He states that Ultima's power was too much for his vessel body in the end, and we see the curse taking him on the beach, spreading from his fingertips to his entire hand within seconds. We also see Metia fading, which indicates Clive's death.

The main argument I see for Clive's survival is that in the final Jill quest, she says that no matter how bad the night is, the dawn will always come, as will Clive. And then when Jill is crying, she sees the dawn come, and stops crying. However, I think that's just her finding hope in the darkness, and through her grief, taking comfort in the knowledge that Clive did indeed save the world so that a new dawn would always come.

This also fits with the lyrics of the song that play at the end, My Star, which go:

For your flame still burns inside me deep within my heart Showing me, a new tomorrow, never too far And when I cannot bear the pain, I look up to the sky and pray And though our night is over you shall always remain, forever, my treasure, my star

Yeah, those lyrics definitely say "Clive is dead" to me, sadly. I think Clive's fate is of course debatable, and I see a lot of people convinced that he survived. But, for me, as much as I wish he did, I just don't think he lived.

Now, finally, to Joshua, the most complicated one. The biggest piece of evidence for Joshua's survival is THE BOOK. Final Fantasy, written by Joshua Rosfield. A lot of people think that Clive wrote the book under Joshua's name due to the quill that Harpocrates gave to him, but... why? That makes no sense to me. If they wanted to show that Clive survived and wrote the book, the book would have just had Clive's byline. Let's not forget that Harpocrates also said that Joshua is a gifted writer, so Harpocrates' crumbs don't lead only to Clive as the author.

There's also the interpretation that Clive/Jill had a son named Joshua who wrote the book. While more plausible to me and also a sweet interpretation, it still seems like quite a big reach. Or, perhaps Joshua had already been writing the book while he was alive, and Clive finished/published it? But when Harpocrates tells Clive that Joshua would be a good writer (which he also says to Clive to keep us all confused, lulz), it's implied that there really isn't time for anyone to be writing, but maybe after Ultima's defeat it's the pen they could turn to.

So, of all the explanations for the book, I think that Joshua surviving and writing it is the most likely, and the reason for that being shown at the end when it easily didn't have to be shown at all. And let's also not forget that the name Joshua derives from Yeshua, the Hebrew name for Jesus. Jesus and the Phoenix, these are both figures who rise again.

But, that of course begets the problem of how, actually, did he survive when he was most definitely dead? Joshua even explicitly says in an earlier scene that the Phoenix can mend flesh, but not restore a spirit. Yet, the difference from then and the end is that when Clive healed Joshua, he was using the power he absorbed from Ultima, the power of a God. We know this because after Clive heals Joshua, he states that his body wasn't enough to be able to handle Ultima's power after all. And if Ultima's power wasn't important narratively, then Clive could have healed Joshua's flesh once he absorbed the Phoenix's power, rather than this act occurring after. Besides, whatever he did to Joshua must have utilized a great deal of power, not just the power of simple healing/mending flesh, to have been too much for his vessel body. And while the powers of the Phoenix can't restore a spirit on their own, we really don't know what they would be capable of in conjunction with Ultima's power.

Even before this, we know that Joshua's power earlier went to bounds that it should not have been able to when he reached Clive, who was trapped in Ultima's nightmare realm. Ultima says something like, "You shouldn't have the power to do this. How is this possible? This is the power of creation," (paraphrase). I think that Joshua and Clive's powers, when fueled by their will, determination, and brotherly love, are capable of stretching beyond any normal bounds. There's no telling what they'd be capable of when combined with Ultima's power. Therefore, as Clive cycles through the memories of his brother and burns with the will for the power to heal him, Clive was able to actually revive Joshua at the end.

My last though on Joshua surviving is not based on any actual game events/lore/evidence, so might perhaps be more copium fueled, but I think it also makes more sense for Clive's story arc. The game begins with him (nearly) killing his brother, and a full loop would end with him saving him. Final Fantasy XVI is after all, more than anything, a story of brotherly love. For Clive's final act to be to save his brother and fulfill his duty as Joshua's shield, is a much more satisfying and complete story and character arc imo.

Anyway, those are just my thoughts. Like I said, it's really up to interpretation which, if any of those three, might have survived. The only thing that would change that would be if we got a post-game DLC that confirmed things one way or another. But, for now, this is what makes the most sense to me, for better or worse.

[robo-writing]

Please Mother....

May I ask for some nsfw headcannons of werewolf Clive?

I am but a thirsty child 🥺🤲

My dumbass read this ask with the conviction of a starving Victorian child LOOOOL

Of course child, eat up

Clive gets a possessive streak, especially on the days leading up to and on his heat. If it’s not his brother or Jill he doesn’t want you near them, even poor Gav and Cid are on thin ice.

He follows you everywhere you go, a shadow in the form of a six foot brickhouse of a man. It’s kind of adorable.

Scents you, a lot. He’ll do it at random, it doesn’t matter if you’re in public or not, if he needs you he needs you. Your only warning is a hand around your waist before he takes a deep inhale against your pulse point, a deep rumble of satisfaction on his chest.

“You smell good,” he whispers. “My scent is wearing off though, I’ll fix that tonight.”

Your face grows hot at exactly what he’s implying.

Later that night, true to his word, he does just that. He spends what feels like eons biting at the soft skin of your neck, your collarbone, caressing anywhere his hands can get to. His own mark, his way of telling the world you are his and his alone.

He also loves it when your nails scratch at his back, his chest—if he could walk around shirtless and let the world see just how well he satisfies you, he would.

The entire time he ruts into you, humping between your legs, cock sandwiched between your thighs so well he could cum just like this.

Eventually he’s had enough, and it’s then that he forces you onto your knees and sinks his cock into your warm cunt.

You’re astonished at how big he is every time, always so tight even after so many years.

But it’s alright, because Clive always knows how to make himself fit.

It’s now that his instincts remembers how desperately it needs a warm body, where the beast finally overtakes the man. Now all you feel is the sweltering heat that exudes from his body, fucking you into the mattress without a care in the world.

Growling into your ear, all praise as he tells you how good you feel, how you’re made for him, how good you’ll look with a belly full of his kids.

He doesn’t stop bullying your poor body, not even when you cry and bury your face into the sheets. It’s all motivation for him.

“Made for this, made for me,” he growls. “Say it, say you’re mine, let the whole world know it.”

And you do, not an ounce of shame left in your body.

His knot grows inside of you, full and heavy. His claws rip the sheets below you as he loses himself more and more in the throes of pleasure. You’re moaning like a bitch in heat, and the beast prefers it that way, when you’re a sloppy mess, ruined by his hand, ready and receiving of his seed.

You pass out for a moment when he cums, the sheer fullness of his warm cum making your eyes roll back and your toes curl. When you wake up he’s still hard inside of you, greedily licking at your mouth as if you weren’t just in another world.

Dazed, you let him explore your mouth, cock still throbbing as your thighs shake. You can feel his cum falling from your pussy, a fact that has Clive still barely thrusting into you without a thought in his head.

“Can’t let it fall darling, he mutters against your lips. “Need you nice and full, yeah? Want you to be round by next summer.”

[theshenami]

On the remarkably consistent childhood friends to lovers romantic trope in the Final Fantasy series

Following my playthrough for FF7 Rebirth, I have been thinking about romantic tropes in the FF series more broadly. The stories that have romantic relationships that develop between the main cast (or at least guest party members) seem to all follow the childhood friends (or, at least, childhood/family connections) to lovers trope. Just wanted to list the examples I can think of that follow this paradigm. (Disclaimer, I have never completed FF6, so cannot speak to that game).

FF3: Ingus and Sara grow up together in Sasune castle, and become a couple at the end, with Ingus declaring that he will follow her anywhere and stay by her side. This is the well-known trope of the knight and princess falling in love.

FF4: Cecil and Rosa grow up together along with Kain, with whom they are in a love triangle. Kain sort of runs off in the end because he can't deal with the other two being together at the story's end.

FF7: I know, it's really the only debatable one due to the narrative and affection mechanics of the OG, but the plot clearly shows that Cloud and Tifa have harbored romantic feelings since childhood, and they are obviously a couple raising a family together in AC and DoC. ToTP and OTWTAS delve further into their feelings, but are really just the devs clearing up things they did/could not get into in the OG. The remake trilogy adds more depth to the relationship as well, since Square couldn't really use tone of voice or body language in the OG to express the clear romantic chemistry and tension between them in the first two trilogy entries. In fact, it is so obvious that other characters and party members actively bring it up (Marle, Johnny, Yuffie, Barrett, even Aerith at times).

FF8: This one is a childhood/family connection one, as Squall and Rinoa's parents had a unresolved love story. It's a bit of stretch, I know, but it does loosely fit in with the other couples' arcs.

FF10: Similar to FF8, this one involves Tidus and Yuna having a connection through their fathers' having been comrades during Yuna's father's pilgrimage 10 years prior to the main story. Yuna even goes so far as to state that it must be fate that brought them together, during their voyage from Besaid to Kilika. It is worth noting that this one is a two-fer, since Wakka and Lulu are also childhood friends who become lovers, especially if you incorporate the 10-2 subplot in which Lulu is literally pregnant with Wakka's child.

FF12: This one only hints at two childhood-friends-to-lovers couples. Basch and Ashe have history as it seems he was a knight in the Dalmascan military when they were both younger, and their history is hinted at rather than directly addressed as in other games. It is suggested that they may develop romantic feelings some time after the main story ends, but are both bound by duty to be apart. Vaan and Penelo fit the childhood friends to lovers trope much better, but their relationship is only ever implied: Balthier constantly teases Vaan about Penelo by calling her "your girl" multiple times (which Vaan never refutes), and the final scene of the game is literally Vaan returning to her as he says "I'm coming Penelo".

FF13: Snow and Serah are the childhood friends to lovers couple here, and they do end up together in the end if you ignore the two sequel storylines.

FF15: Noctis and Luna start off as childhood friends destined to have an arranged marriage, but they develop strong romantic feelings for each other despite being apart for several years (yet again, by tragedies befalling their families/homes), and are reunited in their love both in adulthood and in the afterlife.

FF16: This one is another two-fer, with the obvious pairing of Clive and Jill growing up together and having romantic feelings as children, then being forced apart due to tragic circumstances (anyone sensing a theme here?), only to be reunited and fall in love as adults. This one mirrors FF7 quite a bit, complete with the memory loss narrative elements where Clive and Cloud both forget about the key roles they played in their respective childhood tragedies, only to rediscover the truth while on a journey of self-discovery where they battle with their own subconscious to rediscover their true pasts, with their childhood love interests at their sides. As a bonus, Jill also goes through her own journey of self-discovery at Drake's Breath with Clive at her side, much like Tifa does together with Cloud in the Lifestream. The less prominent pairing is Dion and Terence, who mirror the FF3 arc of Ingus and Sara, with the knight and prince (rather than princess, bold move SE) declaring their mutual love by story's end.

Please let me know if I missed/misrepresented anything, and I hope you find this remarkable consistency in the childhood-friends-to-lovers trope in the FF series as interesting as I do.

[fire-branded]

@firexfvalisthea reminded me about Elwin's Inner Thought about Jill being that she's the daughter he never had, which I will always adore -- and it reminded me of something.

My Elwin loves all three of the children, including Jill. This love does not have to be reciprocated; I'm fine with versions of them feeling anything from neutral to deeply negative towards him, especially Jill. He's not perfect, the things he's done and does are not perfect, and I don't expect any of his relationships with any character to be perfect, especially not the children and Anabella. Completely negative views of him is 100000% fine, I'm down with that.

However, while I'm happy to roll with one-sided affection with muses of those three, one thing I'm not willing to budge on is my headcanons that my Elwin is not, and never will be, abusive and neglectful towards them. I'm sorry. If that's what you're after in an Elwin RPer, then I'm definitely not the Elwin for you.

Nothing we're shown or that's said in the game suggests to me that he was either of those things, and no outside content that I have gleaned has implied that he was. Therefore it's a creative liberty that I do not feel comfortable taking with my muse.

My headcanon for my muse is that he was there with the children and gave them as much time as he was able to, given the fact that he was, y'know, the ruler of a nation and all that. Not exactly a 9-to-5-with-weekends-off job. On top of that, the Rosfield family's status as the ruling family demands they conduct themselves publicly in certain ways, and the complexity of the five(Clive, Jill, Joshua, Anabella, and Elwin)'s individual relationships in turn causes an even more complex web of relationships between the other members of the family as influenced by yet other members of the family. (Example being, Clive's relationship with Elwin, which seems to be colored by Clive's relationship with Anabella. As seen by Clive's correcting himself in public when accidentally addressing Elwin as "father" instead of "Your Grace", and Elwin telling Clive in the throne room that, "Alright, you can stop licking my boots. Your mother isn't here." To which Clive does a 180 in terms of mannerisms. He goes from treating Elwin like a soldier regards his king, to acting like a son with his father.)

All of this is to say... While I respect all personal views and interpretations and headcanons of these characters and their interactions, I also have my own set of these things too, and this subject is one that I'm just not comfortable bending on.

[winter4knights]

Title: Let Go Fandom: Final Fantasy XVI Rating: T Pairing(s): Dion Lesage/Terence, Dion Lesage/Jill Warrick, Clive Rosfield/Terence, Dion Lesage & Clive Rosfield, Clive Rosfield/Jill Warrick Characters: Dion Lesage, Terence, Jill Warrick, Clive Rosfield Warnings: Emotional Hurt/Comfort, Implied/Referenced Self-Harm, Hunting Summary: Terence thought he could accept his prince marrying for the sake of responsibilities to the crown. Marrying for children and duty. Yet he isn't the only one suffering from the arranged marriage between Sanbreque and Rosaria. Another man has to let go as well.

You can read it here on ao3! <3

[dumbsmoothie]

The campfire crackled as embers floated upward to meet a sky that had been turning darker with every passing second. Of the four bowls of stew, only two were completely empty. One still contained half of the meal, and the other contained bits of carrot that had been eaten around. Despite Rosalith looming in the distance, the only sounds were that of the wilderness and barely audible lap of the sea.

"Ashton," Clive called over his shoulder. "Would you like to catch fireflies?"

A gasp of excitement preceded rustling within the tent. Not even a second later, the young boy's head popped out from between the loose flaps. "We can play at night?" his nephew questioned as he crawled out and onto his feet. His green eyes seemed to sparkle as he made his way over to Clive. The next one to exit the shelter had been Torgal. Clive's loyal hound had taken to curling up beside the four-year-old whenever he had been resting or scribbling on spare pieces of parchment.

"Of course," Clive chuckled in response. In previous years, Ashton had often tired himself out long before the sun went down. The boy seemed to have boundless amounts of energy until he suddenly didn't. Joshua had insisted that it was something that he must have inherited from his mother. With that thought on his mind, Clive proceeded to ask, "Does your mother not play with you at night?" While Joshua did spare as much time as possible for his son, no one could deny that Eir had been the one to play with him the most. She had even played with the children who had been residing at the Hideaway–day or night.

Despite his gaze being firmly locked onto small, flashing orbs that drifted through the air, Ashton hummed as if he were thinking about the question. "Sometimes, but father reads to me–usually!" The last word had been tacked on with enthusiasm as if he had suddenly realized that he could use it. "It's fun, too!" he added with the brightest of grins. "Father and mother make funny voices when the characters talk." If there is one thing that Clive had learned, it was that Ashton loved talking to anyone who would listen–and it never failed to bring a smile to Clive's face. "Nighttime is father's time to play with mother, though."

For a moment, Clive hadn't been certain if he had heard him correctly. There was a particular tone to the young boy's voice that implied he had been repeating something that someone–presumably Joshua–had told him a few times before. "Is that so?" was all that Clive could respond with.

Ashton gave a firm yet exaggerated nod of his head. "That's why I have to stay in my room," he concluded while puffing his chest with pride. That had to have meant that he had followed that rule without complaint. "Father said if I listen, I can have a little brother or sister!" The excitement within his voice had been matched by the manner in which he had hopped in place with balled hands raised.

"Oh, so that is the reason why your mother is pregnant now–because you were good?" Clive couldn't help but laugh as he reached up to tousle the young boy's hair with his good hand. No sooner had he stopped did his nephew shake his head in similar fashion to how a dog would endeavor to fix its coat. He then tilted his head as if silently repeating what Clive had said.

Suddenly, Ashton gasped once again. "That means that she's growing a baby!" He must have been stuck on the word pregnant. Unbridled enthusiasm blended with happiness and painted every inch of his features. "She's growing a baby like Aunt Jill!"

"Yes, they are both growing babies," Clive chuckled as he reached up to make a mess of his hair a second time. Eir hadn't seemed to be showing too much yet, and so it had been likely that Ashton had forgotten about it. When Clive had been a child, he had experienced the same. The day that his father had asked if he would like to feel his younger brother kick from within his mother's stomach had been the first moment that he had realized just how real it had been–and it had been the very moment that he had felt nothing short of adoration for his younger brother.

Torgal's bark signaled the return of Joshua and their uncle. By the time that Clive had risen to his feet, both the hound and child had rushed over to welcome the two of them back. In the distance, he could hear Ashton ask if they had seen the fireflies and if Joshua would help him catch one. Joshua chuckled and said that he would once they set the wood down.

"Joshua!" Clive called out. From the angle of his head, he could tell that his younger brother had instantly granted him his full attention. "Since you did not finish your meal, you will be in charge of cleaning up once you catch a firefly," he continued on to say with a grin. There must have been the makings of a pout on his face; Uncle Byron immediately released a boisterous laugh.

"Oh! You're in trouble!" Ashton giggled. Joshua had said something that Clive could not hear before promptly dropping the wood from under his arm. The young boy squealed as he took off toward Clive with his father hot on his heels. Before he had a chance to make it to safety, a scream escaped him amidst Joshua promptly scooped him up. Laughter and pleas for him to stop caused Joshua to laugh and tickle him more while Torgal hopped alongside them as if he wished to play, too.

Certainly, days like these had made everything that they had gone through well worth the struggle.

[rydiathesummoner]

Clive and Jill are too pretty.

Yes, I know this is a weird complaint for the internet. Yes, I know it sounds petty and jealous. But I swear, there's been thought put into this.

(Spoilers)

Ok, we all know and love this scene, right?

Clive finally makes a move! Woo hoo! And despite this family safe(ish?) picture, you see a LOT of skin in the scene. Beautiful, butter smooth skin. Skin that is distractingly perfect.

I know this is a fantasy, but it's a fantasy about people living through awful shit that canonically flaws your skin. Clive was soldier forced to fight brutal wars over and over. Aside from his face he has one dainty scar on his chest and maaaaybe one on his arm. Bitch I have more scars than that from falling off the slide as a kid. I'm no soldier! I'm a wimp! With noodle arms! Why am I more scarred up than Clive?

Jill's even worse! It's stated over and over she was beaten and she's affected by the curse. But here her whole body looks like a porcelain doll. Hell it looks BETTER than porcelain. She looks like she's never had a papercut and went to the spa every weekend. I reaaaally don't think her time in the Iron Kingdom was spent moisturizing. Plus, the whole "Dominants turn to stone" thing the plot brings up over and over. At this point she's pretty close to the tipping point, right? Shouldn't she look like an appaloosa by now? Even Dion has to wrap his arm and he's not as far along as Jill.

So I know how petty this sounds, but it's not. I'm not upset that people in a Final Fantasy are gorgeous because that would be ridiculous. I'm upset because it's a missed opportunity for their implied character development in favor of typical media eye candy. Clive will love Jill even if she's 90% stone. Jill will love Clive no matter how many whip scars he has. It's a story about two very flawed people coming together, but visually that wasn't depicted in the scene. The characters don't even have to bring it up in the scene, I just would have liked a "wooooow no wonder Jill covers up so much, she's hiding so much pain" moment and to emphasize that Clive will love his Jill not because she has the skin of a pampered noble, but because she's Jill.

[lockescoles]

I completed FFXVI today! Some comments under the cut 👀

I really enjoyed the game, I’m gonna start a NG+ soon! A wonderful story!

Clive is surely one of my favorite protagonist of the series. He’s so kind and caring and also so badass. He truly is amazing, I love his relationship with pretty much every character. He truly wants to make the world a better place for everyone.

But honestly, every character in the game iinteresting. Joshua, Jill, Cid, Dion. I wish Dion could officially join the team for quests though, and I’d love more screentime for Mid because she’s so great! Cid is the best Cid of the series!

The relationship between Clive and Joshua is incredible. It’s similar to Lightning and Serah, but different at the same time. I was so exciting for their reunion and for them teaming up!

The romance between Clive and Jill feels so natural. We know from the beginning they will be together, but it’s just heartwarming. I also lowkey ship Joshua and Mid tbh

MY BOY TORGAL. His sidequest made me cry. Such a loyal partner. 

I love the Eikons. It’s so different than in the other games of the series, with the Dominants and everything. Very original!

Clive makes me think of Terra so much and I love it! They both need to understand what their powers truly are and how to use them, just like they both need to accept them.

That’s one the the things that makes me think Clive probably survives. Along with Jill smiling and Torgal stopping crying and “the dawn will bring you back to me” thing, for me, it’s similar to when Terra’s powers as a half-esper fade at the end of the game, but then her “human” feelings manage to make her survive. With Joshua’s speech right before the final battle, it makes me think something similar happens to Clive, even if he maybe loses his arm entirely or partially. The fact that he’s the narrator of the events implies he survived, too.

I think Dion is dead, unfortunately. He was willing to die to redeem himself. I also think Joshua is dead and that Clive used his name for the book as a tribute to him like he did with Cid, or he used some things Joshua already started writing and finished it. But I’d love to think the three of them survived 😭

That being said, I don’t like open ending. I prefer when everything is clear. LOL.

Another thing: I would have liked to play other characters than Clive sometimes, especially Joshua and Jill. There are moments in the game it would have made sense I think. 

[semi-imaginary-place]

FFXVI Rewrite Part 5: Origin, Ultima, and the Ending

With the last Mothercrystal destroyed and the final seal on Ultima broken, the apocalypse begins. The sky breaks apart into dark roiling aetheric stormclouds casting the world into eternal gloom. Aetherfloods spill across the lands poisoning all life and turning it akashic, the remaining crystals fail. There is no nation left standing in Valisthea. The one force that would have fought against Ulima’s rule Waloed is in disarray. The greatest champion fighting for free will was Banabas who is now dead. Congrats on making things worse! Isn’t free will and making choices great? The party much now scramble to figure out what is going on, all the while the realization of how badly they messed up slowly dawns upon them. Like in the actual game’s post Twinside section, the party scrambles to recover from the Waloed attack while also fending off compounding problems of starved beasts, Fallen machines, akasha, and wraiths. Now though Origin has also risen into the sky destroying all hopes of salvaging Twinside. The party travels around Valisthea piecing together the deteriorating situation with the destruction of the Mothercrystals and wonders if this is what Ultima wanted since they stopped bothering them several Mothercrystals back. Doomsday cultists start popping up. In particular will be the savior cult the Circle of Malius who are much the same as the are in the actual game striving to make all people akashic as they see it as the ultimate pure state free of mortal burdens. This formerly suppressed underground faction now runs free now that Barnabas is gone.

I really do like most of the sidequest storylines especially Dion and Harpocrates’ quest, however a complaint I had was that their placement right before the final boss dropped the pacing off a cliff. In this rewrite the last section is being expanded so there is time added here for Clive to rally people and finish their storylines so that the finale can be uninterrupted. This includes the final part of Jill’s character arc where she reckons that for all that she has talked big and tried to help people, she herself still does not quite know what it means to live on her own terms, but she thinks she is finally starting to understand. Jill wants to travel the world, to help the people out there who don’t know how to fight for themselves yet and to find herself. In the actual game the Jill-Clive romance is primarily hindered by Jill’s poor writing having tried to fix her writing here I have no objections to the romance anymore. However, I was never a fan of romances and am of the mentality of that if it isn’t needed it shouldn’t be included. For example, in Tales of Arise the relationship between Alphen and Shionne is the center point around which the rest of the story revolves and while it could have been a friendship instead of a romantic one, there is no Tales of Arise without Shionne and Alphen’s relationship. This is not the case for FFXVI, even in this rewrite Jill is not the deuteragonist (if anyone it’d be Joshua), as such Jill and Clive’s relationship is not central to the story and really while I’m not opposed, I feel a romance just gets in the way of the story, if there’s to be any romance I would rather it just be implied or optional. Dion and Terrance should still kiss because that is bold and revolutionary in a way the portrayal of any straight couple isn’t, also they’re side characters so it doesn’t matter this story isn’t about them. Before the final dungeon is also the time to show how life without magic sucks. FFXVI sort of glosses over this very briefly but I think this point should be integrated into all the final storylines, without magic people have no safe drinking water or fire, disease begins running rampant, industry grinds to a halt, and food production halts so people begin starving in the streets in mass, and Clive has to see all this knowing this is what he’s done to people.

The party eventually learns of Ultima’s plans to destroy the world and enslave humanity by flooding them with aether and turning every living thing akashic. At the same time, they record increased aether concentrations gathering around Origin, as the Blights worsen as Ultima repurposes the same draining mechanisms as the Mothercrystals, He turns the very chains that bound them into his servants. Instead of loredumping via a ten minute monologue at the end of the game, now would be a good place to drop bits of lore and worldbuilding like how in this version dragons, frostwolves, and such were the original inhabitants of the world. Ultima is the last surviving active member of the Fallen whose ancient civilization made all the ruins encountered across the game. Ultima and the Fallen brought humans to Valisthea and created eikons by enslaving the power of the land’s original inhabitants. Eikons are a phenomena of the recent centuries and a sign that the seals were weakening.

As a lover of JRPGs I found it immensely disappointing that Origin was just some cutscenes and not a full dungeon so I’m making it a full dungeon in this rewrite. Ultima is trying to draw in Clive and possess him anyways (as well as the combined Ifit-Phoenix fire eikon) so they would try and cut off the rest of the party. Dion is able to break a hole in Origin that Clive enters into with Joshua, however Jill is cutoff, and under constant assault she seals the hole after them to stop pursuit. In addition, the Fallen forces are marching from Origin to turn every person akashic and Dion and Jill are needed to hold them back. As such Dion and Jill as the two that can fly stay outside to stop pursuit of Joshua and Clive, as well as to try and contain Ultima’s forces from murdering and or turning everyone on the continent into akasha. This would be a nice scene to show all the factions of Valisthea that Clive has met and negotiated with coming together to ward off extermination. Like the Trinity Accord can actually be something meaningful as a defense accord rallying humanity’s last remnants. Origin will be a classic final dungeon boss gauntlet with no way to exit until the player beats the game. Every set of floors (5? 10?) will be a boss as Ultima seeks to weaken Clive.

During the ascent to the top or Origin the final secrets of the game are revealed and the lore scattered throughout the game brought together. To reiterate, the Fallen drained the resources of their homeland and turned it into a wasteland, their civilization collapsed and the survivors fled upon the mothership Origin to a new world. Coming to Valisthea, they came into contact with the native lifeforms such as the dragons and began a war of conquest for control over Valisthea. The Fallen made eikons out of draconic aether to use as war weapons against the dragons themselves thus why eikons are elemental themed. Eventually the Fallen with their eikons and advanced technology kill most of the dragons but not before most of them were killed as well. As a last resort the last remaining dragons sacrificed themselves to seal the last Fallen away the Eldest Wyrm’s body fragments, becoming the Mothercrystals. The Mothercrystals much like dragons themselves have a strong connection to the aether of the land and while not ideal, a side effect of the Mothercrystals is that they feed off of the land’s aether to power their seals. Because this was a last ditch effort it’s full of problems including that the seals take an unsustainable amount of aether and after the land is drained of aether the seals begin to fail. Mining and using crystals sped up the breaking of the seals as well as the spread of the deadlands as the Mothercrystals drained the lands to fuel the seals. Ultima is the last active Fallen who awakened as the seals weakened. The reawakening did not go as he hoped as the other Fallen only remained as aether. Ultima seeks to flood all of humanity with Fallen aether made of his people’s souls to truly reincarnate them, replacing the original aether of the world with Fallen aether. Origin now acts as the focal point amassing aether and releasing Ultima’s forces.

At the top floor of Origin Clive and Joshua find not only Ultima but Anabella and Olivier. Anabella and Olivier transport to Ultima’s eden space ship which is revealed to be the red star Metia; Origin acts as the connecting point between Valisthea and Metia. Ultima reveals that the Fallen are the true humans of this setting. The original humans created soulless shell or dolls for them to later fill with their own aether, reincarnate, and thus save their civilization. All the characters the player has met were these husks created by the true humans, the people of Valisthea were never meant to be people on their own with wills and thoughts. Similarly, Mythos like in the actual game was the chosen vessel for Ultima to fill with the eikons, ascend to godhood, and power the casting. But like most plans, things have gone wrong and now created fights Creator. Ultima tells Clive and Joshua that they and their brethren were only ever imposters wrongfully claiming the title of humanity their masters: the true humans. As creations of humans, they belong to humans, their wills exist only as an extension of the true humans’ wills. “In Ultima's eyes, mankind's greatest sin is the awakening of free will—his servants straying from the path their creator laid out for them and forging one of their own. However, Clive contends that this is a sin by which Ultima is equally stained—and indeed, if humanity is indeed Ultima's creation, does not their every action, every emotion stem from him?” (Mysteries of the Realm: Sin).

Clive and Joshua face Ultima in his Ultimalius form as in actual FFXVI for stage 1 of the final boss fight. After beating Ultimalius, Ultima transforms Stage 2 is a giant kaiju eikon battle is space. Like in the Bahamut fight, Ifrit and Phoenix combine, however where Ifrit Prime was an incomplete fusion, this time the fusion is in full and the true Eikon of Fire emerges: Adonaios v2.11 (other possible names are Sabaoth and Belias). Ultima uses the beta testing version Adonaios v1.8; 1.8 comes from the incorporation of all 8 elements plus Ultima, 2.11 comes from Adonaios having to be split into two but left unfinished by Ultima for Clive to collect the remaining eikons. In game Ifrit Prime just looked like the Ifrit model with 2 feathers glued on, Adonaios v2.11meanwhile looks like a 50:50 fusion a molten red eikon with wings, horns, a feathered tail, and a jagged beak. Adonaios is slimmer than Ifrit but overall bigger with the feathers. Adonaios v1.8 meanwhile looks like the figure on the murals, a fusion of all 8 eikons and elements however it is falling apart at the seams even as Ultima fights with it because it’s an abandoned draft version. Late in the stage 2 fight Clive and Joshua are losing and draw upon the remaining power of the eikons of whom only Bahamut and Shiva are left. This drains the remaining eikonic power from Jill and Dion, grounding them and making the Valisthea fight hopeless, the Ultima fight now all or nothing. Stage 3 of the final boss fight takes place aboard Metia. Metia was an alien spaceship all along, but more accurately it is a control satellite from which to coordinate the revival of humanity. Clive, Joshua, and Ultima have all mostly used up all their power in the previous stage. In this final stage of the fight Ultima transcends and returns to his original appearance that of a human, Clive and Joshua are no longer fighting some strange monster but someone they would recognize as human. In stage 3 Clive cannot semi-prime. In the end Ultima is killed and his species is now extinct.

Joshua and Clive are exhausted from climbing Origin as well as the consecutive boss fights but begin to relax with Ultima dead, and then Anabella steps out. Anabella thought she could outplay Ultima by siding with him and then taking over, and now she sees her chance. She steals all the power that Ultima had been siphoning into himself to cast the spell, and redirects it all into Olivier to turn Olivier into a god and who will rule the world, doing what Ultima failed to do. It fails because playing god is a bad idea, Olivier’s body cannot handle the power and it begins mutating him into a deformed humanoid abomination with multiple arms and eyes, bodies seemingly trying to grow out of him. So, the true final boss is mercy killing a child who is falling apart and turning into an abomination but doesn't know it, as he cries that it hurts and begs you to stop. Olivier cannot be allowed to live as they will destroy the world. and the aether is warping his mind and he becomes less coherent as the fight goes on, regressing from full sentences to just screams. Ascended Olivier doesn’t really fight back, he flails around and lashes out when attacked but attacks aren’t particularly aimed at the player and he’s mostly crying and shaking on the ground in pain. Ascended Olivier has a very large health bar and the story will not progress until he is killed, the last save point is before reaching the top floor or Origin. In a game full of epic boss battle, the last is anticlimactic by design, there is no epic music just silence, there is no challenging gameplay, only attacking a child. The gameplay is boring, its grueling, and that’s the point. Clive kills Olivier and then there’s just Anabella.

Much like the Fallen were the creators of modern humans who sought to control their creations and saw them as an extension of themselves, creations that deviated and refused to submit to their will and thus were failures. So too is Anabella a controlling creator who deemed her children failures for not advancing her goals, hating and discarding them to try again with a new child. Olivier was supposed to be her ultimate creation, perfect and subservient to her with no will of his own. The parallels between Anabella and Ultima exist in the actual game so it was disappointing her role ended so early and nothing was done with this parallel. Here is this rewrite, the large-scale destruction of the world by Ultima is paralleled with the destroyed Rosfield family and this final confrontation with Anabella. Anabella is not a warrior, without her soldiers and pawns she doesn’t have and martial power, she is more or less powerless to her fate at this point having discarded all her cards and bet everything Olivier. Clive (and the player) are then given the choice to “do nothing”, “kill”, or “spare” Anabella, Clive after all was the one who suffered the most from her. If “kill” is chosen, then Clive kills Anabella. If “spare” is chosen, Clive walks away but not before Joshua steps in and kills Anabella because even if Clive can forgive her Joshua can’t. If “do nothing” is chosen Anabella kills herself unable to reconcile with a reality in which she has lost.

Clive and Joshua use the last embers of the eikonic power remaining to shut down Primogenesis and Ultima’s plans, landing the Metia at the base of the crumbling Origin. The closing shot is of gang standing together overseeing a ruined Valisthea as the camera pans showing the aether storm clearing, wraiths evaporating, and fallen machines deactivating permanently. The deadlands are still around but a new sprout is seen growing. The credits sequence plays over a scene of Mid yelling to hurry it up she wants to see stoves and water purifiers in every village by the end of the month, shots of people is Valisthea figuring out how to live without magic using technology and innovation, the main characters are seen helping repair efforts. The end card says 4 years, meaning FFXVI takes place over a total of 16 years, from the beginning of the game and Phoenix Gate to the end of the game and Origin. Sun light is streaming through a window as Clive writes in a book which he closes to the title “Final Fantasy XVI by Joshua and Clive Rosfield”. As the timeline is changed here so that Clive is younger for the duration of the game than he is in the real game, his older model can be used here. Clive is using his non-dominant hand here as his dominant hand has been partially petrified from his fight with Ultima. On the desk is a photo of Clive and a bedridden Joshua.

The game’s themes could have been better integrated into the final section of the game. If FFXIV wanted to tell a story about choice, then they should have made Clives’ choices have weight and consequence. If he wants a society free of the Mothercrystals then the game should have showed how he ruined the lives of many many people by destroying them. FFXVI would have benefited greatly from more moral dilemmas like that. There should have also been exploration of the concepts of creation, ownership, makers, what makes someone human. One missed opportunity was not bringing up the relationship between art and artist, is art an extension of the artist or its own thing. The references to Gnosticism were fine but the concepts could have been clearer. There are also just a truckload of small problems and inconsistencies in the game like how Charon is said at one point to have a wide variety of customers across the continent while at another point is said on exclusively trade to the Hideaway. There’s a sidequest about how Murdoch’s nephew joins the Hideaway because he admires Clive and then the game forgets about him (just like they forget about Jill) and only remembers him again to put him on a bus, thus having no interaction with Clive. A lot of worldbuilding is just badly done. I love mysteries but making things misleading and obscure for no reason is not how to do it. So much of it was unclear or convoluted or just pointless even after reading the completed The Thousand Tomes that I just threw the whole thing out and wrote new lore for this reimaging of FFXVI. If a change is not specified than it is the same as in the actual game. I wrote 85% of this in Jun-Jul of 2023, then stopped for lack of motivation. I only finished this for the sake of finishing it because I don’t care anymore. I’m done with FFXVI and it’s poor writing.

It says something that it ended up being easier to throw out the later 1/3 of the game. In earlier drafts I did originally try to make canon work like Barnabas being one of Ultima’s devout and purifying Waloed by turning it all akashic, or Joshua’s probable death at the end of the game. Like it would have made more sense for Barnabas and Ultima as they are portrayed in the actual game to methodically hunt down and kill every person or named NPC Clive has ever talked to, slowly isolating him from his humanity by breaking every connection he’s ever tried to make. But of course, this removes the cast from having a role in the rest of the game and makes it impossible to keep the rest of the game the same. This rewrite ended up being pretty happy and optimistic because that’s the spirit of the original game. FFXVI in the end is pretty optimistic, which I have mixed feelings about. FFXVI tries have an upbeat uplifting ending and message while also wanting to be a dark, gritty, edgy Game of Thrones knockoff, and while this is very possible for a work to do, FFXVI did not succeed in meshing these aspects into a consistent whole, XVI ends up feeling inconsistent or disjointed. So while I did eventually decide to uphold XVI’s optimistic spirit I did consider another possibility leaning into more of the darker ambience. With the rising of Origin and fight to climb the tower, every major character either is killed or sacrifices themselves for Clive to reach the summit. The Cursebreakers buy time of the ground with their lives, Dion finally gets the absolution of death he has been seeking for Sanbreque, Jill joins Clive and Joshua in the tower but sacrifices herself to hold back the tower bosses and all of Ultima’s forces chasing them up the tower. During the second stage of the final Ultima fight to turn Ifrit Prime into Adonaios v2.11 and truly fuse Phoenix and Ifrit, Joshua who is already dying burns himself away allowing Clive to have all of Phoenix’s power. Clive thus kills Olivier alone, and faces Anabella alone, his fate left ambiguous.

Read this in one long post

Read this in parts: part 1, part 2, part 3, part 4, part 5 .

[godtier]

hi guys, i been busy but i needed to rant about the trashfire that is FFXVI. so an obvious warning: this is spoilers for FFXVI, proceed with caution, read at your own risk, etc

so i am at the point in the game where dion is in bed and joshua is awake from his injuries. he has a conversation with clive and jill, discussing ultima and his plans.

clive, being the dumb slut he is, is like “BUT WHY ME” wrt to being ultima’s target vessel (as if ultima didn’t talk to him about it directly back when cid got murked but idk i guess i can forgive him for not remembering since his bf had just gotten filled with holes) and joshua has to explain the fucking obvious to him by saying that dominants are beholden to their eikon’s elemental affinity. meaning, joshua can only cast fire magicks, jill can only do ice, etc. clive is different for this reason, since he currently shares a headspace with now five eikons and can use their powers at will (concurrently with his blessing of the phoenix, which i still get confused about that. maybe i forgot or missed an explanation but it’s just weird to me idk)

that’s all well and good, because it’s what i had assumed from the start. eikons represent a specific element. if you’re basically the vessel for that eikon, it makes completes sense that you only have access to their elemental prowess. 

HOWEVER

this creates a hole. a minor hole (unlike the ones that were put in cid lol), but a hole nonetheless. an oversight that, while minor at a glance, kinda throws off the lore and logic the game has established up to this point.

what, exactly, does this information contradict? well, i’m talking about this scene in particular (clipped to the correct timestamp): 

if the video doesn’t load for whatever reason, the scene i’m talking about is when benedikta is talking to that group of magistrates or whatever and then decides to light her pipe with her finger, using magicks.

the issue? benedikta’s eikon was garuda. garuda is the eikon of wind. 

HOW THE FUCK

DO YOU LIGHT A PIPE

WITH WIND

well you don’t, silly

because it’s very clear in the scene that she wasn’t using wind, she was using fire.

which begs the question: HOW.

HOW did she use fire if she supposedly is beholden to garuda’s element of wind? if what joshua was saying was true (which admittedly, it makes sense given the rest of the framing of how magick seems to work in the world) then why wasn’t this seen as a bizarre quirk she was able to do? 

i’ll tell you why

it was a lazy oversight. and though it was a minor scene, it was one that was framed in a way that drew direct attention to the action itself and used to clearly define the differences between people in this world. 

right before she lights the pipe, a man was using a crystal in the foreground to fill a cup with water. the scene was meant to illustrate the disparity between those who are not magick users (thereby forced to use crystals for simple magick tasks, or bearers if they can afford them) and those who are magick users. it was framed to show that benedikta wasn’t beholden to the limitations of using crystals for magicks. she could do it herself. 

but she shouldn’t have been able to.

the problem therein is that you used a character who, by the self-proclaimed logic of the game, would have no way to use fire like that naturally. though the scene itself was very effective and framed well, imo, it ultimately breaks apart the rules of the world building they’ve established (or at least come to fully establish by the point i’m in; it was pretty much implied if you ask me).

from the start, i had figured that eikons were only able to use their assigned element. when i saw benedikta do that, i had thought “oh... maybe there are some exceptions? it was a pretty small flame, maybe they can only do minor magicks that aren’t associated with their eikon?”

but then i thought about it more. if their power comes directly from eikons and not the crystals (which to my understanding is how bearers are able to cast magicks) how would garuda bestow even a slight ability to produce a flame? garuda is entirely wind. there are no powers she has that hint at being fire-adjacent (such as in some games classifying water and ice magic as the same “family,” is what i’m getting at). there was nothing to indicate any cross-contamination, of sorts. their powers are from the eikons and the eikons alone, not the crystals directly.

so while this is a scene that many may forget about or brush off, i think it honestly creates a larger hole in the logic than most might first think. it totally contradicts everything joshua had said, it also makes clive not that special if benedikta was able to use fire as well.

ultimately, i think that it was a very lazy oversight. they wanted to show the disparity between regular people and bearers/dominants. but they thought about it for a min, and went “well the only other dominants that can use fire wouldn’t be in this scene. we can’t use them to illustrate this. and we can’t exactly have benedikta use her wind powers to make a mundane action more convenient... so let’s just have her light it with her finger and move on.”

OR 

the game was so disjointed in its logic/world building that they just straight-up forgot that they had benedikta do that at the start of the game by the time they got to writing out the rest of the story. i think this one is the more likely option; they just were so bad at keeping a lore bible or referencing it at all that they stupidly forgot that they had benedikta do something she should not have been able to do by their own established rules. or the rules weren’t even established at all until the point joshua talks about it! who knows!

to get an idea of my immediate reaction to joshua’s lines, please witness this conversation between myself and @sapphire-weapon​

anyway, i’m not ready for how bad the game apparently gets as it goes on. it’s such a shame because overall? i do like this game. it’s fun to play. i like the characters a lot. but my god the story... the backbone of any game, imo, is the story. it could play like shit but have a banger story, i’d suffer through it. but it’s so much worse to me to have a game that has really fun gameplay and characters, but an abysmal story. 

don’t get me wrong, i like the overall idea of the story. i like the overall framing. it’s the details that pile up, the weird choices in narrative movement (like clive’s coming to terms with “killing” joshua??? makes no sense at the point i’m at anymore!) that are really wrecking it for me.

anyway thanks for comin to my rant. enjoy ur day pls.