#it's so much more valuable for me to think of kanda finding respect for allen despite and even bc of everything he thought of as a flaw

[kneworder]

i also think there are few things funnier than the way allen and kanda's relationship changes throughout the manga. like i do not ship them at all but for over a hundred issues it's yuu edgelord supreme kanda being like 'FUCK you for being nice and polite all the time. the world is a TERRIBLE place and it is STUPID AND NAIVE for you to pretend otherwise' and allen grin and bear it walker being like 'Actually I Believe In The Inherent Value Of Human Life You Piece Of Shit :) Be Nice To People :) Appreciate Your Friends :) Find Hope Or Go To Hell :) ' and then searching for AW hits with all the force of neah and the fourteenth and suddenly allen is like "maybe it is all meaningless actually haha i ruin everything i touch and my life was never truly mine <3 i think i might go catatonic for a little while about it wouldn't that be fun <3 go on the run and isolate myself <3" while kanda tracks him down to shake him by the shoulders like "wait wait wait fuck you oh my god stop that you need to believe in people again what about your fucking friends jesus christ don't you remember them oh my fucking god where did your stupid hope go and why do i have to be the one to force you to find it UGH." kanda fucked around and found out. literally be careful what you wish for.

[icharchivist]

Kanda was basically a much more delayed Lavi when it came to realizing Allen's dazzling light. Kanda trusted, respected and I do believe he even admired Allen (him helping and encouraging Allen against the lv4 despite being weaponless himself is a stand out for me). But he kept a distance to him too. His hatred of the Order triumphed any concern for Allen. He probably still felt predujice too. I think post Alma Kanda also realized he took Allen for granted. How valuable his humanity and -

2 and the hope he brings. He almost got Allen killed because Kanda couldn't forgive (himself. Everyone). Allen's forgiveness saved Kanda and Alma. Which is why I'm very eager to see Kanda's reaction to Allen's backstory. Not downplaying Kanda's horrific backstory at all. But Kanda grew up imprisoned within the Order. He eventually came into the loving care of Marie, Tiedoll and Komui w/Lenalee as a friend. He still suffered but again he was sheltered from the rest of humanity. Kanda (and -

3 Lenalee) don't fight to save the world or humanity because they don't really know either very well. They haven't experience life the way outsiders like Allen, Lavi or Miranda have. They don't have a relationship or understanding outside the Order. Kanda's going to realize Allen, in different ways, has experienced the worst of humanity. Unlike himself, Allen can't even rationalize their behaviour like Kanda can w/the desperate scientists in a war. Those people in Allen's past were just -

4 just demonic because they wanted to be. I think this will not only open Kanda's eyes to bigger humanity (bad and good, Mana and even Allen the dog showed good parts). But to how strong Allen is. That all it took was the compassion of a dog and the care of one man (even if Mana's in question right now by them) for Allen to heal and chose to let his suffering fuel his empathy. Allen has every right to hate humanity. But he forgave them anyway. That not only prevented Allen from destroying-

5 himself but helped him to go on and teach forgiveness to others. Allen put Lavi on the path to forgive at least parts of humanity. Miranda and Krory to forgive themselves enough to keep living. There are a lot of examplrd and Allen himself still struggles w/forgiving himself. But in dgm the root of everything is unforgiveness breeds hate and hate breeds early death. Forgiveness doesn't equal loving that person. But it does equal being free from the toxic feelings that cause self destruction.

!!! Completely agreed about everything!

I do think Kanda had been affected by Allen’s light early on: there is a huge moment of kinship in the Mattell arc for all that matters, even if Kanda rejects to actually mention it. Even if it was the cause for their fight in there, Kanda did eventually come around and fought for what belief Allen was holding, even if i doubt he realized back then that he cared.  Like you said i think he still tried to keep his distances with Allen and refuse to admit how it did affect him because Allen still represented a lot of what Kanda hated and... Kanda is really stubborn. So it was easier to keep a sort of distance with him that way.

“taking Allen for granted” is honestly the perfect way to put it, and yeah, it took the Alma’s arc to realize that it was like that.

Like you say in your conclusion (man those asks are perfect), with “the root of everything is unforgiveness”, the thing is that also Kanda saw Alma being consummed twice by his hatred for the Order - a hatred Kanda still has, festering inside of him. But by standing against this hatred Allen actually ended up helping him connect back with Alma, and I think that it forced him to put himself back in question considering it’s thanks to that he could get back to Alma even for a bit. 

It forced him to acknowledge that Allen’s pov was bringing more good and happiness than the hatred he had locked himself into. 

When it comes to Allen’s backstory, i completely agree with you. I think Kanda might have a disconnect about humanity and think in general that the Order are the worst kind of people ever, acting all over “ends justifying the means”. Of course Kanda’s backstory is horrifying, but it is limited, and it was... horrible enough for him not to think about how it is outside. 

I do think Allen’s backstory would change a lot of his POV because yeah to him there is nothing worse than just the Order. I think understanding why Allen felt at peace in the Order- feeling that the reason for which he was abused (his arm) is now the reason he can save people, and the contrast of how horribly pointless this abuse war in comparaison to “end justifying the means” tortures, would put a lot of perspective on how Allen felt at peace in the Order - a bit like Lavi’s realization (to tie it back with your opening sentence) that Allen’s kindness and care doesn’t come from naivety of not knowing how horrible the Order is, but from him actually knowing too much the crualty of humanity and finding a way to cope with it.

And like you said it would give Kanda even more insight on how strong Allen is, and why he has always been fighting the way he did. that “he is but a small man who cares about what’s right in front of him” because after all, the dog in front of him what was reminded him he wanted to be loved, Mana’s individual love is what gave him strength. Kanda had always thought about the bigger pictures because i think it’s a way to cope with not... snaping at the order for what was done to him. But Allen’s pov is so different to his own and i think finally understanding why will give Kanda the pieces missing to completely empathize with Allen.

So i’m really looking forward Kanda’s reaction to Allen’s past! just like Allen understood much more about Kanda seeing his past, I think the same will happen there and I can’t wait! you put it all in words perfectly!

[raioseucliffe-cheney]

Day 2: Black

Absorbed by his thoughts he stares out of the window. He’d never faced such a difficult case before. Actually, his work is simple. To allow the convicted criminals to talk one last time with him in order to get some needed information or a much needed confession for a crime being still unsolved. But this time he really doesn’t know at all what to do with this one particular convicted man. He read the files at least three times. Still he doesn’t understand at all why someone would inflict mass murder in a monastery at such a young age.

A few hours later he arrives at the gateway to the maximum security prison complex outside the Solaris Colony. This is one of his workplaces. Even though he loves to interact with people, he’s simply doing this job only because his guardian Cross had made him pick this kind of job in the first place. If he’d been able to choose a job freely on his own free will, he would most likely work as clinic clown. Simply, because he loves to see the honest smiles on the faces of children.

Nearly an hour later he is now meeting the convict he was sent to get the reason for the mass murder happening almost ten years ago. Still, no one really knows why this tragic incident had to happen in the first place. Cross and some other personnel from the Black Order simply hope for some valuable clues in order to avoid such tragedies to happen again. While he sits at the table, watched by video cameras and guards standing near the door he’s for sure becoming more and more nervous. What if he fails?

His gaze rests right now at a young man with dark blue hair, slender built and a flicker within the bright eyes sending cold shivers down his spine. Only now as this young man is sitting across him at the table he notices some violet tint within the dark blue hair as well the scar across the bridge of his nose. Is this really the one charged for murder on at least 45 counts and locked up with three times of life-long sentence without parole? Actually, he’d thought of someone as you’d face in a classical Hollywood movie where the bad guy is some family father and a well-respected member of the neighborhood.

“Are you Alma Karma?” “Why ya asking? Yes, my name is Alma”

is this young man now answering him and in a way he doesn’t feel comfortable in his presence at all. Actually, he was in situations far worse than this but still, somehow his entire body trembles inside with fear. Keeping up a mask by showing a friendly smile he can only hope Alma isn’t sensing at all how afraid he is right now.

“I’m Allen Walker. I was sent here to…” “I know why you are here. Since the monastery belongs to the Black Order they still want to have their answers. But instead of asking me, why don’t you ask the head of the Order?”

comes now Almas response before he’s even able to explain the reason of his current presence here and slightly confused he gazes now at Alma. What kind of implication is this? Why is he trying to blame the head of the Black Order after so many years passing by?

“Can you please tell me what happened on this morning at November, 14th?” “Some friends and I were kept imprisoned there for years. They tested new kind of drugs and medicaments on us. A lot of them died during the process until only another boy survived next to me. I snuck away from the room where we stayed the entire day if there wasn’t any testing. Then I found a room filled with columns made of glass and filled with a strange green liquid. Inside there were bodies of people I know and even of my own parents. I guess, I snapped seeing them like this”

is Alma now saying with a sad smile appearing on his face rushing through his dark blue hair and the sheer horror of the pictures of the crime scene appears again in front of his inner eye. So Alma turned into a murderer in order to escape whatever suffering he had to face? Shortly he shakes his head in disbelief. This young man had shown some premeditation by taking the lives of everyone residing within the monastery at this time. The doctors and nurses, the priests and monks and even the scientists working in the hidden downstairs laboratories of the monastery for the Black Order.

“Is there anything new you can tell me, Alma?” “There is supposed to be a survivor. A boy close to a year younger than me. He can prove to you that the Order is financing illegal tests and does some disputable tests on human beings”

are the next words coming from Alma as he raises slightly an eyebrow. Again he recalls the content of the official report. There had never been another boy within the monastery at all. The crime lab had searched for traces of more than one child having lived there but only Alma had been confirmed to have lived among the monks. A slight sigh escapes his lips. Somehow he feels bad to know a man like Alma is convicted even though he’s obviously having a mental illness.

He gives now the guard a sign that he’s finished with asking the convict right now and before the guard is able to place the hand-cuffs back on Alma’s wrist, the young dark blue-haired man leans now over to him to gaze deep into his eyes. “Everything I’ve told you so far is the truth. Please, Allen, I want you to prove it to the court. Prove them, I’m mentally instable” is he hearing him say in almost a whisper, then Alma is yanked way from him in almost a brutal way. Slightly nibbling his bottom lip he watches how the young man is now lead back into his cell while he is ordered to leave.

********_*********

“So how did it go, Walker?” “Actually, he only confessed what we already know” “Where you able to learn about his motive?” “He only said he snapped”

is he responding right now while he’s sitting in a conference room next to his guardian and a man named Froi Tiedoll, who simply works as advocate for the entire Order. So once his direct superior left the room a deep sigh escapes his lips. Cross is leaving the room as well and so he’s now all on his own. Well, not quite since Tiedoll is still present. The man only asks for the parts of the conversation he wasn’t telling right now and with a sigh he tells about one survivor from the monastery besides Alma Karma.

“At this point Alma is right. There had been one survivor. A boy named Kanda Yuu. But he passed away two years after the massacre within the monastery. Died due to pneumonia” is the old man now explaining him while cleaning his glasses and thoughtfully he lays his hand on his chin. So if he could prove this to the court, that there had been for sure tests on Alma and his friends, then maybe he’s even able to find out the real culprit.

“You act like someone drove this young man so far that he’d go and kill innocent people” “Alma told something about being test objects for drugs and other new medicaments” “Yuu said the same. His immune system was quite at a low level when he ended up living with me” “But that would mean one tiny infection and even Alma could die from it. Do you think there is a way to prove his immune system is so low from being an unwanted test candidate?” “Maybe. But don’t forget, Allen. This is ten years ago and the body isn’t holding such an evidence for long”

is Tiedoll now explaining to him and next to a deep sigh, a slight curse escapes his lips. Somehow there has to be some clue as to how he can help Alma.

“Tiedoll, can the verdict be changed if we prove Alma has a mental illness? He said, he snapped after seeing his parents and some of his friends in containers filled with a green liquid” is he now asking the man right now an idea popping up in his head. If he’s lucky enough there are even photos of the room the dark blue-haired young man had described to him.

“Do I get it right? You want to plead on insanity, Allen?” “If this saves Alma from being killed on the electric chair, then yes”

is right now his answer, a serious expression plastered on his face. There in one fact no one in the order knows but only his guardian. Within him rest some slight tendencies of schizophrenia. A trademark he sadly inherited from his father’s side. That’s also why he can in a way understand why Alma was acting this way back than when he had been a child.

“Alright, I’m going to help you” is he hearing Tiedoll say after a while and a deep sigh of relief escapes now his lips. At least he’ll stop the Supreme Court from sending a young man into death row only because he wasn’t in full control of his mind at that time.

********_*********

Weeks pass by, where he works in full effort to prove Alma isn’t even able to be counted sane at all. Luckily for him he found even a specialist for mental diseases agreeing to take a proper look at Alma Karma. If he isn’t working at all he’s either visiting the dark blue-haired-man in order to learn more about him or he sits in the local library in order to gather more useful information. During the visiting hours he’s now waiting for Alma, he’s now thinking about the fact he might be able to get him transferred out of here into a psychiatric clinic over at the Tethys Colony on Titan. But only if the expertise of the specialist is able to convince the Supreme Court of Alma being mentally ill.

“Actually, I’m quite surprised to see you so often, Allen” “I’m here, because I want to inform you about an option I was able to figure out” “So you found a way to avoid me facing the death penalty?”

is Alma now asking, supporting his head on his still hand-cuffed arms and he nods.

“Once the Supreme Court accepts the expertise explaining you being mentally ill, you’re going to be transferred to the Tethys Colony” “So the choice is simply: living between convicts facing death penalty or living locked up in some facility”

is he hearing Alma say in quite the sarcastic way. But within this moment he realizes a short haze of gratefulness rests within these cobalt-blue eyes. Something he hadn’t seen at all while coming here and talking to him.

“This is all I can do for you, Alma” “Still, thanks for even trying to listen to my words. But I think it is already too late, Allen”

are now the next words coming from the dark blue-haired man coming as he widens now his eyes. Right in front of him Alma is shaken by a cough and right now the surface of the table is a spatter of blood. “As you see, I’m already knocking on death’s door” is he hearing Alma saying to him with a smile as the guard tells him the visiting hour is over.

As he sits in the shuttle bringing him away from the prison complex he somehow feels how his inside starts to churn by the simple thought of being too late in order to help Alma Karma. He really started to bond and sympathize with this man. One thing for sure. If Alma wouldn’t be locked up by now, maybe he would have taken him out on a date. He’d for sure spend more time with him and learned more about what he likes and dislikes. Even though he knows Alma won’t be alive when the Supreme Court tells the final verdict, he vows himself to fight in Almas name for justice. Even if he has to leave the Order to do so.

[icharchivist]

Oh no your answer was great! I hadn't thought about it much but Kanda's Innocence is being pretty gentle w/him all things considered. It's like toeing the line between sticking to, I guess, Innocence code but also showing mercy and understanding because Kanda's motivations are good. Lenalee's Innocence ignored her until she promised to work w/it again. Then it bowed in respect. Compare that to Suman who got violently punished (shoot Mugen didn't hurt Kanda even when Kanda helped awaken Allen's-

2 Noah side. Kanda even originally wanted Allen to turn and destroy the Order out of hate. You think he would have started turning back when he had kept the 14th’s awakening a secret). 

I’m cutting the ask there quickly to say, yes agreed with all of this! I think there’s a lot to think of about how each individual innocence behaves especially with thir accomodator and i pretty much agree. Had Kanda’s innocence be only slightly like Suman he wouldn’t have had just some warning like he did. Even if i don’t know how long the Innocence will tolerate it. 

Back to Chaoji, he was a pretty chill and mature dude pre Allen fugitive status. Post Ark he kept silent about the Allen gossip even though he could have told people about Allen wanting to save a Noah. He also didn’t antagonize Allen post Ark either. But now he’s very crass and antagonistic. Even to other people.-

3 Even though he wasn’t close to Allen he should know Allen’s beliefs don’t invalidate what Allen did in the past. It’s not a secret to Chaoji (or anyone) that Allen fought hard to save everyone, even all alone, during the Ark and Order Invasion. The only reason Allen is even a fugitive is because Allen chose saving Kanda and Alma over orders. You think Chaoji would give Allen some credit for saving the person he idolizes the most but he doesn’t. 

It’s actually really interesting when you -

4 compare Chaoji’s hate of the Noah to/Allen’s original hate of the Thirds existence. Allen himself said he felt hate towards the Thirds but after hearing about their past he felt bad about it. Allen thinks hate, particularly ignorant hate, is a scary thing. This causes him to find the resolve to understand others even like the 14th before he decides anything. Even before then Allen showed how much he was willing to save them even if he hated what they did. 

I feel like Chaoji’s attitude is -

5 going to backfire on him big time. Ark Freakout aside, Chaoji used to show good control over himself. Now he’s not. He’s getting angry at his comrades for just having feelings when they haven’t even messed up. He’s isolating himself way more then he has before. When you think about it Chaoji’s only close friends are those 2 Finders. He’s never been shown close to any Exorcist. He’s usually just standing there w/them during training. Recently he seems more unattached (besides his own team). -

6 ex; in a extra showing Krory and Chaoji going to where Allen and co were. The Finder w/them notes Krory has been bearing is Innocence non stop out of grief over Allen and Lavi. Chaoji meanwhile is completely ignoring them, looking away w/a big happy smile on his face. This kind of struck me. You think he’d either look stoic or irritated over Krory’s depression. But he’s not facing him. He’s acting oblivious (from the glare he gives Krory later we know he’s not). I feel like this is more -

7 foreshadowing that Chaoji is becoming (for us) the face of the ignorant who need/want to hate who don’t fit in their black/white view that most of the Order/Central has. It’s scary because Chaoji is a good guy w/his own trauma caused by the Akuma/Noah. But he’s letting his hatred take over and affect how he treats and will get treated by those who support Allen. They’ll certainly keep him in the dark about a lot concerning Allen on account of not trusting him. Has already losing trust/faith-8 in Krory and the others (how ironic the Exorcists helping Allen the most are his most trusted teammates; Kanda, Marie even Teidoll). I can’t help but wonder if he’ll be used by Central somehow because of this (which will somehow tie into him being a unknowing Noah spy if he unintentionally leaks valuable info to the Noah)? It’s a unnerving to see how hate can make a once friendly nice guy like Chaoji turn very cold and uncaring to even his comrades and ignore anything against his prejudices.

I honestly kinda agree with all of this- his attitudes had been off, and he’s truly antagonizing everyone. And there is the fact he has a parasite from Fiidora inside of him that will sort of play into game. I think it’s pretty interesting to set up that he’s the exorcist who is the most loyal to the Order (rather than to Allen) that ends up being the bias in which the Noah spy on them. The realization of that will destroy Chaoji and this sort of anger might blow up to anyone’s face.

If I might add though:  

One of the thing that deserves to be mentioned is that he was poisoned by Fiidora when him and others Noah kidnapped Bookman and Lavi. It was shown that the finders found Chaoji in great pain agonizing on the floor and losing his mind while Lavi and Bookman disappeared. And I don’t think Chaoji might take it well.

From the look of Chaoji so far, he has a major survival complex. He is one of the only survivor of Anita’s boat and was left behind by his crew who refused him to die with them when he wanted to - living therefore with the eternal idea that he could have died with the people he loved and he wanted to, but he had to live on. And afterward, in a mission: two of the people of the Order that have a major impact on the mission (Lavi being one of the first people Chaoji met, and was part of the group when Allen Lenalee and him showed him “how human the exorcists could be”) disappeared and it left him alone. He’s the one they found back. They don’t even know if the Bookmen survived, so he might as well have been the only one who survived- he could have died against the Noah in the fight, he could have been dragged with the Bookmen, but he wasn’t.

I think that can create a sort of guilt that would push him to over-take responsabilities as “if there’s a reason i’m not dead while the people I was with were killed, then I will work through it to make it justice.” That’s often the prisme i used for Chaoji in general because of the focus on losing Anita’s crew.

I think that might also play in him not making more bounds that the finders - who were themselves after all, members of Anita’s crew, survivors, people who signed up as Finders specifically to watch over Chaoji as a group, a family. This is not by choice that Chaoji really befriended them and it was a bound that predated Chaoji becoming an exorcist. 

The guilt of being alive, to have survived, may easily lead to isolation and refusal to befriend others people. He cannot avoid his finders friends from before, but he can avoid others.

With Krory the scene you notice is worth noticing indeed but again: Chaoji was there and couldn’t save Lavi. the Finders point out that Krory is in such distress over the disappearance of Allen, yes, but also Lavi, who was with Chaoji that day, that he’s pushing the limits of his body. Overhearing this conversation, Chaoji has to be aware of Krory’s pain and be an uncomfortable reminder that he survived that attack and that he was there free to walk along Krory while one of the people Krory wanted to see were gone. (or also he was really just mindlessly looking away, just looked back at the picture, he’s looking at a butterfly and the Krory dialogue is rather kept quiet? so ye)

The thing is that this guilt can be overwhelming and in any cases it’s the Akuma and the Noah that hurt people. If Chaoji could overlook Allen’s compassion for them after the Ark arc, the development of Allen becoming a fugitive makes it hard for him to look away from what is happening. And at this point, like i said, it’s more reaspons for Chaoji to believe it’s his time to take the responsabilities. That if he survived this far perhaps he should work on why.

He’s letting his duty define him because this is the only way to reason why he survived when others did not. And by doing so, he undermines the human connection he and everyone else had with Allen, to the point of antagonizing the others.

I agree with your analysis btw, I think it’s pretty spot on, but I think that’s just a point to remember about why he came to this. Perhaps i’m reading a looot into it though but considering how big was the scene showing him insisting on dying with Anita’s crew and how they insisted on him having to survive, and the fact a similar scenario happens again with the Bookmen, could really work well with his psyche.

And the more he lets his duty devour him, the more he will give information to the Noah all while antagonizing himself from the more “grey” exorcists. And that will blow up to everyone’s face.

Take care!