#ml theory?

[fabseg-creator]

I have made drafts of Cerise... and Lila ?!

I've imagined a story about the existence of TWO(2) Lilas in the Miraculous universe.

I feel it's even a theory (more than an AU): What if there were in fact two Lilas ?!

I thought about that since a lot of months (approximatively since beginning 2023).

For this AU concept, there are two Lilas:

Lila Marina Rossi (the original girl)

"Cerise Bianca"/"Lila Rossi"/"Iris Verdi"/Chrysalis (the impostor)

And they look like identical each other.

The situation:

Lila confronts Cerise her identity usurper. In this AU, after Lila and her mom (already promoted ambassador) arrived to Paris, Cerise manipulated 'seduced' Lila in the first day. One day, Cerise betrays Lila by falsely sending her to the asylum.

In this AU, Cerise previously escaped from the asylum and she needed to trick the authorities.

We have got the "Lila Rossi" we actually know in the show (Volpina, Chameleon, trying to seducing Adrien, plotting revente against Marinette/Ladybug, using Chloé as a pawn for her own agenda, manipulating each adult woman/mother by pretending to be their daughter, working with Gabriel/Hawkmoth/Monarch and stealing the Butterfly miraculous to the latter).

One year later, the real Lila escapes from the asylum and tracks down her "other self": the fake Lila/Cerise/the girl who trapped her and stole her identity.

Meanwhile and of course, she doesn't suspect her nemesis has already a Miraculous for the evil. She risks to confront Chrysalis (Future Hawkmoth(?)).

Bonus:

-The real Lila (in patient uniform) confronts the fake Lila/ Cerise. That's since one year she seeks revenge, justice and truth. She just wants to retrieve back her normal life.

-an angry Lila is going to ambush Cerise: the latter (the superliar, the super impostor) had recently received her new wig (just another copy of her initial wig) and was becoming "Lila Rossi" again.

-Lila becomes mad to see "she is herself" the Alliance Ring avatar and the Gabriel fashion brand model.

[bklily]

I find it funny how these intro scenes are being kinda brushed aside with the overall conversation because not only do they give a good insight on where Adrien's head is at the moment, but they also set up the perfect tragedy of what his life will become once the secret comes out to everyone. He won't be able to have that simple life he wants anymore and everyone will always be aware of "Adrien Agreste son of international terrorist" all the fripplin time.

...Unless.... 👀 He takes Adrien Agreste out of the picture.... 👀 👀

[miraculous-floconfettis]

That's way too many frogs.

Either someone in the Miraculous team is fan of frogs or this is sus.

[nionom-art]

Sooo I ran across this cool concept art of an unused kwami design. And… well- I had to make some art.

It’s called Null, the kwami of nothingness, with an ambition to “Return the world back to nothingness”. I decided that the power it would have would be called “Void”, allowing its users to make any one thing disappear permanently. I figured Null would be the universe’s counterbalance to the kwami of reality, Gimmi.

I’ve seen some theories floating around that Null might be appearing in season 6, I feel like that could be pretty interesting, depending on how it’s handled.

Side note: making Marinette recognizable when you get rid of her bangs is harder than I thought it would be- hopefully y’all can tell it’s her, haha. The working name I have going for her is Lady Cipher

Lila with Null design now exists too :)

[idleinteen]

WOW

the parallels between adrien/ivan hit hard omg

[linartblogs]

GUYS THE REVEAL IN THE RULER IS EXACTLY LIKE THE REVEAL IN EPHEMERAL I'M TWEAKING

Not kidding. I just checked and Nathaniel says almost exactly the same thing as Ladybug when she revealed herself as Marinette to Adrien :

"S'il-te plaît dit quelque chose" / "Please say something"

"Dis quelque chose" / "Say something"

This coupled with Lila/Cerise mentioning Nathaniel while writing means that there's a big chance this reveal will have consequences later in this season omg...She probably already has suspicions of him being Caprikid...

[mesetacadre]

I'm not sure of the actual possibility of there being a return of industrial production to the imperial core, but one aspect I think many fail to take into account is that this new nationalist push to revalorize the nation-state and withdraw production away from the global south was only enabled by the relatively recent process of re-cheapening of the imperial core's workforce (flexicurity, shortening and flexibilization of working hours, facilitation of semi-employment and terminations, the gig economy, etc), which would theoretically allow for a profitable return of industry to the core. That nationalist rethoric, interestingly enough, also uses this cheapening of the workforce as a rallying cry.

[familyagrestefanblog]

Ladybug's Lucky Charms in Werepapas

Let's talk about another detail that people kinda REALLY wanna ignore about Marinette's decision in the Werepapas akuma battle. It's the fact that she hand-waves away FIVE Lucky Charms until she finally goes with the sixth:

No, that is NOT irrelevant. Marinette is not supposed to disregard her Lucky Charms left and right because they're trying to tell her what she's supposed to do. That's Lucky Charm 101 in an akuma battle.

I'm not gonna pretend like I know for 100% certainty what they all tried to tell her, but

1) a couple of them can be easily interpreted in very relevant ways.

And 2) I don't NEED to know what exactly they all mean because it doesn't need to be PROVEN that Marinette isn't supposed to cherry-pick her Lucky Charms. We've known since s1 how this works and it's still done like this in s6. Thanks to not being limited anymore to 1 Lucky Charm, she gained the luxury of sometimes just getting to summon one for the purpose of whooping ass instead of solving the actual situation - which is still a lucky charm's REAL purpose - but that doesn't change the fact that you're supposed to listen to the Lucky Charm, not the Lucky Charm to you!

Under special circumstances like a final battle, sure, use additional ones to whoop ass. But you can't just switch out the problem solving Charm with a purely ass whooping one which is what Marinette did here in "Werepapas". It's fine when you do that in an extremely dire situation, but a normal akuma battle is no dire situation. Especially not when the only real stakes there are is being reckless with Adrien's amoks!

She's supposed to use whatever she gets and that'll lead her to the right solution. Not going through a whole line of Lucky Charms until she gets one where she finally likes the first thought she gets from it because of how little it challenges her self-preservation (makes you wonder if having unlimited Lucky Charms now isnt the worst thing that ever happened to her. Now she can just ignore whole Lucky Charms until she finally gets one that tells her something closer to what she wants to hear instead of listening to the CHARM)

Let's take a look at her 6 Lucky Charms:

From my recollection (so correct me if I'm wrong), while the teapot sometimes shows up here and there as filler Charms it was firmly established and used several times as a visual cue for Marinette to go to Master Fu.

Obviously, she can't do that anymore, but she has Alya as co-guardian, Luka who was trained by Su-Han, and even Su-Han himself as Celestial Guardian who now does whatever she wants.

In a situation where Adrien's amoks are the akuma object, it's a pretty logical thing to happen that her first Lucky Charm tells her to get Guaridan-related help. She has the option, all the needed support, and all the resources, but doesn't use it because it wouldn't be nice having to face the baggage that could come with it.

And even if you wanna say "She didn't get help because she didn't wanted the new Butterfly to possibly find out that Adrien is a Sentibeing!" Then that excuse still falls flat because obviously Adrien's LIFE is supposed to be more important than preventing that secret from coming out. The secret has no value if Adrien is DEAD.

Afterwards she gets a fan and this obviously could VERY likely mean that she's supposed to get Felix involved because he's the Miraculous holder of the Peacock. And by "VERY likely" I mean "I doubt there is a likely chance that it ISNT a hint to get Felix".

I won't even elaborate on this further. Her second Lucky Charm tried telling her to get Felix when Adrien's amoks were on the line and she ignored it. It is what it is.

For the third and fifth ones, I personally don't know what they could mean because I already struggle recognizing what exactly they are supposed to be. Though, they do have recognizable shapes. I bet other people could look at them and know where they've seen these objects before in the show.

Then right between these two, the fourth Charm Marinette summons is an unicycle (that for some reason isn't polkadotted, but screw it)

An unicycle like she summoned back in season 2 "Sabotis", the episode in which Alya became Rena Rouge for the first time. Meaning this one pointed to getting Rena's help.

For me, this is one of the most interesting ones regarding Marinette's feelings of not wanting to face the Lucky Charm's solution to instead protect all her secrets. But if anything, I would want to give it its own post and not half-ass it here. Cause there are a lot of layers to this one.

And, of course, the last one: the scarf. It's alongside the fan the one for which the fandom does casually acknowledge the symbolism of it being a call back to 1x01 "The Bubbler" where Marinette now infamously made the decision to let Adrien believe that it was his father who made the scarf for him - and not her - because of how happy it made Adrien that his father finally "cared":

I don't think I need to explain why it makes sense that this is the one s6 Marinette cherry-picks to finally work with. The poor scarf has been made into the symbol of Marinette wanting to keep pretty much everything about Adrien's family a secret from him. Including him being a Sentibeing. I miss the good old days when we dreamed of the scarf being set-up to become the catalyst for Adrien to write off his father as a useless deadbeat who isnt worth his time and love.

So, unfortunately, of course this is the one she goes with now. Even if it means taking the risk to kill Adrien. Anything to keep the secrets save and lies unnoticed. How tf did we GET here?

[uptoolateart]

Anyone notice how many times Ladybug talked about herself in third person in the London Special?

As soon as she told that lie about Gabriel and Tomoe, she began separating herself from what she'd done. She's coping through dissociation.

Throughout S1-5, she and Adrien were on paths towards integration. They were learning to see that he already was Cat Noir and she already was Ladybug. The strength lay within all along.

But by being untrue, she's gone backwards, splitting her two selves rather than unifying them. She's attempting to compartmentalise Marinette's relationship with Adrien from Ladybug's...which is unworkable.

In a word...our girl is a mess. She's supposedly doing all this to protect Adrien - but who's protecting her?

[minifilmix]

That phrase really interested me...

This is different from the other phrases Cerise says at the end of each episode. It seems like she's interested in Nathaniel, or maybe she knows something we don't...

His real face? I don't think she knows his identity, because only Ladybug knows it (n Cat Noir maybe (well, at that moment)). Maybe she thinks Nathaniel is a hero?

Or maybe there is another secret to share? Does this guy even have secrets?

[mamayura]

Revelator analysis: Marinette remembering the Umbrella scene incorrectly

You know what I find really interesting about the interview scene in "Revelator" where Adrinette retells how they met? Marinette is actually getting a few details wrong.

Mind you, no deal breakers. She got all the emotional beats down accurately. And I will only truly take this as canon anyway when the French original has her misremember things the same way. But for now, it's really interesting that MARINETTE is the one who gets a couple of details wrong about the moment she fell SO in love with Adrien, while Adrien himself is out here making no such mistake in the whole interview:

This is correct. Simple as that.

This one... is on very thin ice. In reality, Marinette had just left the building and noticed it was raining when Adrien started talking to her. Yes, she was ready to wait until the rain stopped, but she never truly got to the waiting part:

But, by all means, if this were only this detail, I wouldnt make this post right now. Even if, factually, she didnt wait, she just noticed it was raining and thought she had to wait.

But let's get back to this later because there is another layer to this that was the catalyst for me writing this. But for now, moving on:

This is correct again. Adrien, in fact, had an umbrella.

But here is the thing:

This is... straight up wrong. Objectively. What Marinette reacted negatively to was Adrien trying to be friendly and saying "Hi" to her:

He only offered his umbrella at the end, so Marinette claiming so confidently in "Revelator" that she at first turned down the umbrella is false. Adrien opened it for himself because he was the one standing in the rain for a bit while explaining his perspective:

I sure don't see any umbrellas being turned down here, Marinette. So what exactly are you remembering? Just saying.

From this point onwards, the Adrinette interview is accurate again because 1) it's about the emotional core of it, and 2) well, Adrien is then talking the most because it's about him and Marinette is mostly just adding to it. So, yeah...

Look, I don't wanna say that this is some deep betrayal of love and proof that Marinette's love for Adrien isnt real. Of course not. And again, there is still the chance that the line in question is right in the French original (though, I do gotta say, I doubt it because that would change the natural flow of the conversation)

I just find it interesting that the thing about THE Umbrella scene that Marinette gets wrong is the UMBRELLA itself and how and when it was extended to her.

Cause, well... This is not a documentary. Marinette is not a real life person who can mix some things up without it meaning anything. She's the main character and the main narrative tool of the story.

This is the moment SHE FELL IN LOVE WITH ADRIEN. Pretty much 80% of what she does in this show goes back to this moment. In story-telling practice, yes, her being the one who recalls that moment incorrectly should mean something.

Bad faith reading: it's a major indicator that Marinette is actually not as invested in Adrien and their relationship anymore as she was once upon a time. Her needs and desires have changed and that's causing problems now.

Good faith reading (and I genuinely mean good faith reading. Fucking BEST faith reading, in my opinion):

The details that Marinette gets wrong about the Umbrella scene actually correspond with the ending of "Strike Back" where Marinette's lightning moment happened with Chat Noir:

Cause if you combine Marinette's memories of the Umbrella scene with the Strike Back scene, then, yes, Marinette WOULD remember standing way longer in the RAIN before Adrien eventually came to her:

Not because that's how it factually happened in "Origins", but because she was alone in the rain for a solid bit before Chat Noir arrived in "Strike Back".

But the most important thing is that, if you combine the two lightning scenes, this objectively incorrect line actually checks out again:

Because the moment Marinette fell in love with Chat Noir was about him having extended his hand several times but her having pushed him away and held at arms length:

Marinette in the Umbrella scene didnt turn down Adrien's umbrella. Not only because that simply didnt happen, but also because Adrien only had the opportunity to offer it ONCE which she then immediately took. Chat Noir, on the other hand (is that a pun?), did offer the gesture she then fell in love with more than once, which she initially turned down, but eventually accepted.

So, again, worst faith reading: we were supposed to pick up on Marinette remembering the iconic Umbrella scene incorrectly which is supposed to subtly tell us that life has changed Marinette's feelings for Adrien for the worse because she's simply not the girl she was a year ago and the love she once wanted doesnt fit her needs anymore, so it's fading and getting drowned out.

Best faith reading: It's a subtle hint that the love she once wanted doesnt really fit her needs anymore, but the one that does more and more now is Chat Noir who, as we all know, is Adrien Agreste.

Though, no matter which one it is, one truth remains: Marinette remembered the UMBRELLA SCENE wrong and that means something.

[l4dymarika]

My theory on revelators parallels to chat blanc

What I understood from Revelator and its parallels to Chat Blanc is that it might be how it would end if Chat hadn’t wiped Rena’s memory.

Let’s take this scenario into consideration: Alya has expressed her spite toward keeping secrets/lying. If she hadn’t had her memory wiped, she probably wouldn’t have lasted long without telling someone—whether it be Nino, Adrien (I don’t want to think so little of her, but maybe even the Ladyblog, considering how mad Alya was at MariBug). The truth would spread, eventually reaching Adrien, who would be completely devastated ( I genuinely don’t think that telling Adrien about it sooner would help especially with him being such a wreck (who tries to hide it) right now (wrinkled shirt theory))

That episode might have implied that the truth is so dangerous it could actually destroy the world—if not revealed at the right moment—and that we were heading exactly down that path. Now, it’s Marinette’s responsibility to determine the right time to reveal the secrets.

Secrets don’t tend to stay hidden for long, especially when they involve such important matters, and I don’t think anyone expects her to keep it a secret forever. That’s exactly why, right now, the truth shouldn’t be revealed. There’s a right time for everything, and during both Revelator and The London Special, that time just hadn’t come yet.

I’ve also heard people say that Marinette acts selfishly by avoiding uncomfortable conversations and staying in her comfort zone. I tend to do the same, so I understand her completely. In my case, I just wait for things to evolve on their own and delay them as much as possible while mentally preparing for them—sometimes, it’s just for the best. Sometimes, you have to be selfish.

But enough about me—Marinette has been through so much that it’s basically a coping mechanism (in fact, it is exactly that). You can’t expect someone who’s so lost in her life, practically living on autopilot, not to rely on their coping mechanisms. We forget that she’s just a fourteen-year-old girl who doesn’t have enough experience to handle such complicated situations.

Give this girl a break. Life is already doing everything it can to crush her, and her mind is doing everything it can to keep her from collapsing. She has to do what’s best for her—sometimes, she has to think about herself, even if she is a superhero.

The unraveling will happen eventually—when the time is right, when the truth will cause the least harm to everyone involved.

[kuromori4]

I know this comic was very much about Marc and Nath and I very much don't want to take that away from them, but I definitely see the parallels between Rain-Piercer & Sun-heart and Ladybug & Chat Noir.

Maybe it's obvious, but I enjoy analyzing it!

Sun-Heart clearly parallels Adrien/Chat. Blonde/golden hair, the whole 'Sunshine' aspect? AdriChat's bright and sunny disposition?

Then we have Rain-Piercer. Dark hair, more concerned about the consequences of them revealing? And the reference to all of the rain symbolism between Adrienette/LadyNoir?

Lets' break it down:

So this could be taken one of 2 ways:

1) This might be referring to the final battle with Monarch. It's showing us that this could have happened between then and now, That LB and CN discussed revealing after Monarch was defeated. Though since we know they didn't reveal, I'd say it's more likely it's a potential hint to the future--

2) Lila/New Butterfly is the "Deep Darkness" (Though it could also refer to the council stuff) And this is foreshadowing what could happen once they defeat her.

Now they realize that if they reveal, they would have to give everything up. Stop being LB and CN? Maybe even never see each other again if their only connection remains their time as heroes.

Chat is ready to reveal but Ladybug warns him the consequences of revealing their identities.

If Chat Noir reveals himself to Ladybug, then he won't be allowed to be Chat Noir any more.

I'm guessing the Great-Rain is referencing the Celestial Guardian, or maybe the order of the Guardians or something. Maybe even Ladybug herself, as she's the current Guardian. Considering her parallel's name here is Rain-Piercer and the authority in this story is 'the Great Rain' it could very well be that they mean 'Ladybug' and 'Ladybug as Guardian'.

And the sacred armor is obviously the Miraculous.

But Chat is ready to reveal. He's waited so long. He wants this. Like it says, He'd rather lose his powers than his partner, who's always been by his side.

Now we have Ladybug, convinced by Chat that she wants this too. She decides to go through with it. Renounce her burden (With a passion!)

Interestingly enough, this time it says 'powers of the Great-Sun...' which... they just said it was the Great-Rain, so I'm wondering if this is a mistake, or intentional? I'd have to really listen to the french to pick out exactly what's said. Maybe 'Great-Sun' is intentional and means something. I'll come back to this if I figure it out!

And then of course, we get the happy ending and the much-awaited reveal and kiss! So Chat Noir and Ladybug reveal, and they have their beautiful moment!

But.

This is the re-written version.

In their original draft, they both gave up their powers to be together. Nathaniel thought it was unfair that they should lose everything and not have their happy ending.

This is something fans have been discussing for ages. And there's the whole possibility of Ladybug losing her memories if she renounces her Guardianship, which has also been hinted at in this season already.

So Nathaniel changed the ending to ensure they got to keep their powers and have their happy ending.

So is Nathaniel a parallel to the writers themselves? Changing the lore to ensure that Ladybug and Chat Noir can continue their journey even after an identity reveal?

So then this leaves the question of which version we're going to get by the end? Is this their way of showing us that they can continue the show for 12 seasons AND still give us the big reveal?

I mean, how do you continue a show like this for so many seasons and keep the fandom on the line for that long with no reveal? This could be their way of introducing the idea that the story CAN continue post-reveal!

That's just my thoughts on the matter anyway! I hope you enjoyed my breakdown!

[miraculous-floconfettis]

"They are the monsters".

This resonate very differently after watching 'El Toro de Piedra'. Why do I feel like Felix knows way more than he lets on? 😏

[nionom-art]

Kinda sorta a continuation of this post

I’ve seen theories of Lila running into Null in season 6, and I just kinda wanted to make my own design before a canon one potentially comes out.

I picked the name Nessuna for her (I actually have a name in mind this time, lol). It means “nobody” in Italian. Since Lila/Cerise has so many identities, I thought it would be funny if in her form while using Null, the kwami of nothingness, she was just essentially named “nonentity”. Also, it alludes to the Odyssey with that one story where Odysseus tricks a cyclops by claiming to be “nobody”. It just makes my nerd brain happy.

I strayed a bit away from miraculous design conventions with this one- hopefully it’s still recognizable as Lila (I always worry about that with my design work it seems).

[idleinteen]

my “lila isn’t just stalking marinette, she’s stalking everyone” theory was kinda confirmed in this episode omg