#my telemachus design is inconsistent

[justlovlystar]

Princely duties, am i right

[polyhexianbirb]

✨️HERMES✨️

And Telemachus

[oddyseye]

(on anon, bc I'm scared and shy)

I saw your criticism on the musical, and I agree 100% so can I rant (??) a little?

I LOVE Epic. The music, the plot, the love put into the songs and animatics, how Eurylochus and Telemachus were potrayed (even if Tele is more baby girl in the musical, I love all versions of him), how fandom came up with probably the most unique design for the Greek gods, the almost mother-son relationship of Athena and Ody (I choose to believe Ximena Natzel's interpretation of ICHBW is canon, when these two are still friends/found family).

I do have like 3 main problems with the plot. The whole weird double standard with sexual abuse, how Calypso is suddenly just a childish, lonely girl 🥺👉👈 and how Antinous is suddenly a wanna-be rapist, who will completely happily break xenia (at least he still has hate-boner for Telemachus, that's something, I need my enemies-to-lovers). I still don't fully like how dirty they made Anti, but I still love this bastard 😔 (it's still a shame Peisistratus didn't even have a cameo)

Polites' character. Just... Polites, as a whole.

And the whole "monster" thing. Ody didn't become the monster. He was ALWAYS a monster. The moment when as a king he took slaves as servants, the moment he was fine with killing Trojan civilians. I like to think the musical is more about him not becoming, but realizing he's a monster. Like, he was almost delusional at the beginning of the story. Yet Jorge forces us to believe he was actually a good guy? So having slaves, killing innocent civilians or a baby is fine, but killing a bunch of people who want to harm your family in the most vile way possible is completely evil, huh??

The final problem is how Zeus and Athena's relationship was potrayed. She's his baby girl in the mythology. And he isn't the worst dad (and he's kinda a wifeguy despite cheating, but let's ignore this part)

Oh, you KNOW I have thoughts on this.

First off, YES. The way they handle sexual abuse in Epic is… inconsistent, to put it mildly.

Compared to the innocent uwu babies Circe and Calypso, they just had to make Antinous a whole-ass criminal to justify Ody’s massacre at the end, huh? They couldn’t just let him be a legitimate political threat? Or even just a little bastard, a menace, a “maybe I’ll kill you, maybe I won’t” kind of problem? No, they had to go full cartoon villain. Like, the man was already a homewrecker. He was already breaking xenia. He was already trying to steal Odysseus’ legacy. THAT ALONE is enough for us to hate him. So why make him this gross? What’s the goal? It just ends up being character assassination for the sake of making Ody’s actions at the end seem more palatable.

That being said, I deeply respect that they kept the unhinged, I hate you but in a homoerotic way thing between Telemachus and Antinous. The tension. The drama. I need it. But I will never forgive them for cutting Peisistratus. The Tele-Pei friendship is ELITE. It’s essential. You don’t just ERASE my favorite horse girl.

But what is this Sanitized Girlbossification of Calypso and Circe? In the Odyssey, they are Odysseus’ captors. Calypso keeps him on her island against his will for seven years, sleeps with him whether he wants it or not, and only lets him go when Zeus forces her. But in Epic? She’s this misunderstood, lonely maiden who just wants someone to love her. Excuse me?? No. She’s a nymph who actively takes what she wants. That’s the whole point of her character. She’s powerful, she’s selfish, and she’s controlling. Making her all soft and tragic completely misses the horror of her relationship with Odysseus.

Circe gets the same treatment, though slightly less obnoxious. Odysseus literally had to be threatening her with a sword for her to stop being a danger to him. And even then, she only let his crew go after he agreed to stay in her bed. Odysseus doesn’t just want to be with her. He’s forced into it.

Sexual violence isn’t only something that happens to women. And yet, Epic treats Calypso’s actions like they’re tragic rather than monstrous. Like Odysseus should somehow feel bad for leaving her.

Imagine if the roles were reversed. Imagine if a mortal woman was crying on the shore, desperate to go home to her husband, and some male god kept her on an island for years while forcing her into his bed. Would the musical still frame that as “tragic”?

Doubt it.

I also hate the trope they used for Polites so much. This is the “kill off the sweetest character for cheap emotional gut-punch” move, and it’s LAZY. It’s always the same setup: he’s the good one, the innocent one, and his death is the moral breaking point for everyone else.

Like, did Jorge just sit down one day and say, “You know what Epic needs? A generic golden-hearted tragedy boy.” Because that’s what it feels like.

And the worst part? In actual mythology, Polites is barely a blip on the radar. He gets one (1) name drop when he leads the men to Circe. And if we take the Hero of Temesa myth as connected to him, then… oh boy. Because that Polites? NOT A GOOD GUY. That Polites is literally a rapist whose ghost has to be appeased with human sacrifices. And Epic just… what, decided to rewrite him into the most innocent, pure-hearted boy on the ship? The irony is killing me. They went so far in the opposite direction, it’s like they were actively trying to erase any nuance.

We just had to have a tragic soft boy. And then Eurylochus, the actual morally interesting crewmember, gets sidelined. The injustice. The slander. The lack of taste.

Now, the monster narrative is my biggest issue with Epic. Because the way they frame Odysseus’ arc is just... wrong. They want us to believe that Ody was a good man who became a monster through his choices. But that’s not the story. That was never the story. Odysseus was always a monster. And he was always a hero. He was always both. The things he did at Troy? The things he did during his travels? The lies, the deceit, the murders, the calculated cruelty? That’s not a downfall. That’s not a “tragic descent.” That’s just who he IS.

He is the guy who slaughters civilians AND cries for his lost men. He is the guy who tricks and schemes AND mourns his fallen brothers. And you know what? He doesn’t even REGRET most of it. He regrets the cost of it. He regrets the pain. But he would do it all again to win. That’s the Ody I know.

So when Epic tries to push this idea of “oh no, he’s becoming something terrible,” I just can’t buy it. He didn’t become a monster when he killed the suitors. He didn’t become a monster when he left Calypso. If anything, he was just waking up to what he’s always been. And the fact that the musical tries to make us feel like the suitor massacre was somehow worse than, say, everything that happened at Troy? The war crimes? The pillaging? The fact that he was fine with taking slaves?

Odysseus is a monster. But he’s a monstrously human one. And that’s what makes him fascinating. Epic doesn’t seem to know what to do with that.

No comment on the portrayal of Zeus and Athena. But I do have comments on the portrayal of Zeus in general, so I guess I can include that.

This is an entirely different character with Zeus’ name slapped on top. They took the king of the gods, the Wily Diplomat, the master of balance and power, and turned him into this cartoonishly evil tyrant. Like, where is the cunning? Where is the manipulation that actually makes sense?

Zeus wouldn’t even be pushing for Odysseus to kill Astyanax/Scamandrius. First of all, the prophecy did not fucking exist. Second of all, he was on the side of the Trojans. He actively tried to stop Troy from falling! He only let it happen because Hera and Athena ganged up on him, and even then, he made it very clear that he didn’t like it. So now we have the literal protector of Troy standing there, whispering in Odysseus’ ear that he has to kill Hector’s son? Make it make sense. Zeus mourned for Hector. He respected Priam. If anything, he’d be trying to protect Astyanax, not egging Odysseus on.

Words cannot express how much I HATED Thunder Bringer too. Why is Zeus even this invested in punishing Odysseus for something Eurylochus did?? Yes, the cattle were sacred to Helios, but this wasn’t Zeus’ personal grudge. He was basically just enforcing divine order, not gleefully tormenting Odysseus for sport. In the Odyssey, he reluctantly sends a storm to destroy the crew because Helios threatens to take the sun to the underworld if he doesn’t. So Zeus does it to keep cosmic balance. It’s a duty, not a game.

But in this song?? He’s literally taunting Odysseus, turning it into some kind of cruel test. He’s making Odysseus choose between his life and his crew, when in reality, Odysseus never had a choice. Zeus didn’t force him into some dramatic dilemma. He just struck the ship down because Helios demanded it. There was no “pick who dies” moment. The punishment was already decided.

This, at the VERY least, should have been where Zeus throws shade at Odysseus for what happened to Astyanax. That would have made SO much more sense. Instead of forcing Odysseus into some weird death game, he could have been like, “This is what you get for Troy. You slaughtered a city, now see what it feels like to lose your men.” Imagine how much stronger that would be.

But no. Instead, Zeus is just here to be The Bad Guy™️, completely detached from his actual characterization.

This isn’t Zeus acting as the divine arbiter. This is Zeus acting like some petty, sadistic tormentor.

Also, side note: Eurylochus deserved better. That’s all. No comment on the fandom’s portrayal of my poor hungry idiot.

And God Games absolutely butchers one of the best moments of divine interaction in the Odyssey.

In the actual epic, Athena goes to Zeus and is basically like, “Hey, aren’t you going to do something about Odysseus?” And Zeus doesn’t throw a tantrum. He doesn’t make her beg. He doesn’t turn it into some pointless power play. He just sighs and says “You’re right. Hermes, go tell Calypso to let him go.” That’s it. That’s the whole thing.

But here?? They turned it into this ridiculous trial where Athena has to go around convincing the other gods like she’s in some divine reality show. And then when she wins, Zeus doesn’t even respect the outcome. He gets mad and tries to kill her.

...

WHAT.

Why is Zeus playing some stupid power trip game just because Athena asked for a favor? Why is he throwing lightning at his own daughter? This is literally the opposite of their relationship in mythology. Athena is Zeus’ favorite child. The only one he trusts implicitly. She’s the one who carries his aegis, the one who can talk to him without fear of punishment, the one he lets get away with everything. She literally burst out of his head fully formed, and he took it as a sign that she was meant to be his greatest creation. Zeus has never been violent toward Athena in any myth. Ever. He doesn’t treat her like a lesser god. He doesn’t treat her like a rival. And yet this musical turns him into some unstable tyrant who lashes out when things don’t go his way? Pisses me off.

Then, uhh...Telemachus?? Apparently?

Look, I love Telemachus. I love all versions of him. But Epic makes him a bit too soft.

In the Odyssey, Telemachus starts as an insecure boy but grows into a warrior. His arc is about stepping out of his father’s shadow and becoming a man worthy of ruling Ithaca. WHERE is the Telemachus who:

Constantly shouts at the suitors? ✅

Hacks off the hands and feet of a disloyal slave, cuts out his ears and tongue, and finally castrates him and feeds it to dogs? ✅

Pressures his mother into remarrying? ✅

Is gay with Peisistratus and Antinous? ✅✅✅

Also WHERE is Peisistratus?? His bestie? The only guy who gave him actual moral support? They erased him completely! (Pt.2)

The Tragic Love framing of Odysseus & Penelope feels cheap here, too, because Epic completely fails to acknowledge what actually happened to Odysseus with Circe and Calypso.

Epic acts like his longing for Penelope is just some poetic, bittersweet tragedy rather than the literal aftermath of sexual captivity.

That’s not “love story” material. That’s trauma.

But Epic completely softens this reality. Instead of acknowledging how much of Odysseus’ suffering came from being stripped of his freedom, the musical frames his devotion to Penelope as this romantic test of faithfulness, like he’s just choosing between his heart and his temptations.

There are even people in the fandom who act like Odysseus chose to stay with Calypso, like he had a real option. He didn’t. Zeus himself had to intervene because Calypso refused to let him go.

And what does Epic do?

Makes Circe this fun, seductive villainess instead of a genuine threat.

Turns Calypso into some poor, misunderstood, lonely girl.

Frames Odysseus’ pain as a poetic dilemma rather than literal suffering.

The fact that Epic takes one of the most gut-wrenching parts of the Odyssey and turns it into melancholic romance is disgusting. Odysseus didn’t “move on.” He was trapped, violated, and forced to survive. And every single day, he wanted nothing more than to return home.

And finally...

Why did they erase Peisistratus?

No, seriously. Where is Peisistratus?

Where is he...WHERE IS HE??!?!? (Pt.3)

Because I just know I didn’t hallucinate his entire existence. Homer didn’t hallucinate his existence. Telemachus certainly didn’t hallucinate him.

So why did Epic decide he doesn’t exist?

This isn’t just "oh, they cut a minor character" (bffr then why would Polites be important). This is Peisistratus. Telemachus’ literal soulmate. I’m not making that up. Homer uses terms for their bond that imply an inseparable connection, something almost fated. It’s probably not romantic, but it’s deeper than friendship. Peisistratus is Telemachus’ one anchor outside of his family, the only person in this entire epic who treats him like an equal, like a real person, not just "Odysseus’ son".

And Epic erased him. For what??

Instead of giving Telemachus an actual dynamic beyond dad issues, they just left him floating in the void with no support system. Why? They had time to invent new character dynamics, but they couldn’t keep in the one guy who actually mattered to Telemachus’ development?

Peisistratus’ entire role in the Odyssey is to be there for Telemachus. To go on a journey with him. To give him companionship when he has no one. And Epic just threw him in the trash like he was nothing.

I hate this erasure so much. I take it personally.

Alright. I think I’ve gotten it all out. For now.

Look, I love Epic’s music. I love its energy. I love some of the interpretations. I love what the fandom has done with it. But the way it completely mishandles Odysseus’ suffering, erases Peisistratus, demonizes Antinous for shock value, and fumbles basic thematic depth makes me want to grab Jorge, sit him down, and make him read the Odyssey properly.

Did Epic have the potential to be one of the greatest Odyssey adaptations? Yes. Did it completely fumble the bag on key character dynamics and moral conflicts? Also yes.

I know I’ll end up yelling about this again in the future. But for now, I will sit here, arms crossed, seething. Bye-be.

[seasonalmoss]

Epic the musical Catfied: Telemachus concepts and notes

Telemachus‼️‼️‼️‼️

(Im physically dying right now waiting for the wisdom Saga)

anyways here’s some expression notes, fur and body concepts I did!

starting with the first one: I just wanted to do a little test drawing of how Tele’s fur looks in the wind. His fur is thick and round and slightly wavy (Penelope’s fur type) he has a lot of it, and it’s hard to get fully wet (due to some headcanons, though this is up for change)

second one: I wanted to draw his physique! Telemachus is a very spindly, lengthy and quite muscular after training with Athena. He’s quite long in length and tall due to is mother. You may notice that he has a tuck, which means his stomach dips in when it reaches the legs. Cats normally don’t have that and when they do it’s not a good sign, but dogs do! I gave him one because he’s based off of a golden retriever, he’s a cat, yes. But this is art, so there isn’t any limits to what I can add in a design. He also doesn’t have it all of the time, he mostly has it since his body tapers like his fathers, but it changes a bit when he squishes his long body.

third and fourth one: expression notes! I’m actually not done with these, as I’m drawing a whole page of them with notes and details. I won’t say much about how he emotes here? Because that’s the whole point of the drawing, and I do plan to post it when I done! I will say some face notes! For one Telemachus as massive eyes, like- huge orbs. I mentioned it a bit in one of my others posts. His massive eyes were mostly an accident? I was trying to make him look friendly and almost naive, so I made his eyes quite wide and round. Anyways, most of how Telemachus emotes is similar to his father, but when the expressions are more soft and tender he looks more like his mom. he does have his fathers exact smile, very wide and toothy and it sorta squishes up. They sorta have crinkly sparkly smiles is the best I can describe it. Odysseus’s does squish up a bit more and looks more crinkly due his age, but also because his face is shorter then Telemachus!

you may notice some inconsistencies between these, that’s because they were drawn on completely different days and I wasn’t really paying much attention to detail on some? For example his fur doesn’t look all round in the expression ones and he doesn’t exactly have that sharpness of his mouth in the physique concept that’s described in the others.