#not that philip is inherently evil and caleb is inherently good but that when caleb was challenged with change

[volvolts]

i do kinda love the implication that the only reason why the grimwalkers keep betraying belos is because they have caleb's Good Noodle genes as opposed to just being decent normal people going "dude what the fuck is wrong with you" whenever they learn that belos wants to kill people

[azure-blaze92]

What do you think of the "good sibling/bad sibling" idea (aka Caleb was always good and Philip was always evil)?

I am not the biggest fan of that Idea because no one is inherently born good or evil. Both brothers are very gray. It's very unrealistic to have Caleb and Philip be born good and evil respectfully. They both lived through hell and grew up in the same circumstances, but it came down to their choices.

Caleb did his best, or what he thought was best, to protect him and Philip in a town that hated the both of them.

We have to remember Caleb was a child when he was raising Philip, and in a Purtian society, Caleb would have very specific expectations set upon him to raise his brother. He had no idea how to properly do that.

The whole narrative of the Brothers is that one's circumstance in life doesn't dictate who one becomes. Caleb and Philip made separate choices. And because of the choices they made, it led to the outcome of Caleb's death at the hands of his brother.

[gaylos-lobos]

6 & 16 for the meme?

I’m putting this under a cut cause it got kind long

6

So i don’t have a specific ship for this but two types of shippers. 1 are the people who literally stripe one or all characters in a ship down to bare bones so that they are blank slates they can do anything with, which is just like at this point do you even like the characters? And 2 when people so desperately want to ship a character that they find anyone that’s available to ship them with and not because they think these characters might have an interesting dynamic but solely want their fave to have a ship just so they can ship them with a preexisting character which like not everything needs to be about shipping. Also people that insist that fanon equals canon, those should blow themselves up by accidentally smoking gun powder.

16.

The way most people characterize Julius is so bad cause it seems like they are actively not interacting with the text, unpossessed Julius would not be like how most people go about him, he is at best 16 at the end of FE4 and for a good chunk of his life he was literally possessed.

Also people who think Julia and Seliph would have a good relationship after FE4 or any friendly one, considering Julias characterization and the relationship she has with her Dad i doubt that she would want anything to do with the guy who killed him, this simply does not make any sense (and I also think Seliph of all people would understand that). If people want her to have a good relationship with an older half brother then Saias is right there.

Not sure if this falls under it exactly but alot of people often us the fact that Belos never changed over the years while being in the Isles as him being inherently evil or thoughts of this sort. This does not work considering that Philip is someone who was raised in an early puritan New England society not just was he formed and molded by the towns people of Gravesfield but most importantly his own brother helped indoctrinate these beliefs and values into him, which is especially blatant with how in some of the early memories we see is Caleb making witch hunting into a form of play for Philip. Not just does this inherently already influence his views towards witches (and demons but the show never really does much with them anyways) but considering that Caleb abandons him for the Isles and Evelyn it inherently makes his hatred towards them worse. And obviously if denizens of the Isles are hostile towards him, his beliefs against them are proven true but considering how if one would be nice to him it would be considered as not an actual act of genuine kindness but as a trick to lure him in. The simple fact is that the last chance of actually helping Philip genuinely unlearn these beliefs would have been before Caleb left or if Caleb would have taken (his then at least teen brother) with him he could have helped undue (or at least tried) the damage he helped create. I think this inherently comes (including a lot of characterization for both Wittebane brothers) from people not doing any nuanced research into, well early colonial New England, which considering how much his upbringing and the society he lived in at minimum twenty years would definitely have an incredibly impact on him (this leads to an overall bad reading of his character).

[introvert-celeste]

I've actually had this idea sitting in my drafts for months, but what if the Wittebanes' story is like a mixed up Red Riding Hood tale?

It was just something I thought of idly because the red cloak is Evelyn's most prominent trait, but Hunter's interest in wolves in Thanks to Them has solidified this idea for me. What's especially interesting is how Hunter's costume is pulled down to reveal his wolf shirt when he's possessed by Belos.

Basically, I'm thinking of a backwards Red Riding Hood allegory where Red (Evelyn) is treated as the villain by the wolves (the colonists). Caleb, the wolf, is sent to hunt her down, only to disappear without a trace. The narrative is that Evelyn tricked him, tempting him with magic, and lured him into an evil realm. Philip ventures out to kill the evil witch and save his innocent brother, seemingly taking on the position of the woodsman in this tale.

In truth, Caleb never felt like he belonged with the wolves. In a way, the wolf was merely a facade meant to protect himself and his brother from being ostracized. He tried to be a hunter, but in the end he fell in love with the person he was supposed to despise, along with her strange and beautiful world.

Philip, on the other hand, is quite the opposite. He is the "wolf is grandma's clothing," essentially, and this is evident not only in the possessed Hunter scene, but throughout most of his interactions in the show, both as Philip and as Belos. As Lilith puts it, "the confidence, the compliments. He says everything you want to hear." He's the very picture of innocence, whether he's the faithful brother, the frail old man, or the "cursed" emperor, merciful and wise. It's all a ploy, preying on people's good will to lure them to their doom, sacrifices for the supposed "greater good."

And as a side note, I really do think this image of Hunter does a good job of illustrating this idea of Belos being a predator dressed as prey, whether it's intentional or not. The deer's antlers not only evoke the image of a prey animal; the size and shape of them are that of an adolescent, which has its own inherent sense of innocence. Paired with the rest of his monstrous form, plus the wolf imagery, it really does just look like a mockery.

[absolxguardian]

Still thinking about Demonology as a way to understand Belos’ character. 

When answering “why can’t people use witchcraft/demons for good purposes if they’re super careful about it” James invokes the theological principle of “Nunquam faciendum est malum ut bonun indie eueniat (Evil must never be done so that good may result)“. Belos doesn’t follow this, and so we can see that in his fanatical centuries long quest he has violated his own morality. 

Now this isn’t all the lying, tyranny, and murder he did (although I would be interested to hear if someone who is more knowledgeable in New England Puritanism could give an analysis if witch hunters would be allowed to do long cons to catch witches in extreme circumstances)- witches don’t get human rights. And certainly not witches that were never Christian and are more similar to indigenous people than Europeans. Killing his brother was acceptable as well, with the theory that og Caleb had married a Clawthorne ancestor and became amicable with the people of the Boiling Isles, he had, in Philip’s eyes, became a witch (the human kind tempted to sin that he had hunted in the human realm). 

No where Belos errors is where he himself practices magic. Now there could be more nuance in applying the Elaborated Theory of Witchcraft to Glyph Magic. Belos knows he isn’t making a deal with the devil, he’s using the natural (Demonology makes a big deal about what’s natural and what isn’t) properties of the Demon Realm. He could even tell himself its inherently different from the magic that the witches of the Boiling Isles use. But there isn’t any when it comes to extending his life using Palismans. That clearly violates the natural order of the Boiling Isles. And unlike Glyph Magic, it involves internalizing “evil demonic magic”. My reading is that Belos believes that regardless of his predestined afterlife, if he were to die in the Boiling Isles, he could only go to hell, because its so far away from his god. He can’t die without his plan at an anti-climax. Except Christianity isn’t a big anti-death religion. The good Christian thing to do would be to die a martyr. 

Speaking of fighting against death, creating grimwalkers would be another violation. You can’t just go creating life other than the way God has laid out for you. That’s one of the reasons why American evangelicals and Catholics objected to IVF when it was first invented. In the past, theologians spent a lot of time thinking about where souls come from, most theories agreed sex was an important part of it. Belos is making clearly sapient people, and if he thinks he’s resecurting Caleb’s soul, that’s something only God can do. 

Now while maybe Philip could defend himself in theological nuance from his own people when it comes to the Palismans and the grimwalkers, he doesn’t have a defense when it comes to the Collector. My man literally makes a deal with a devil-like figure. Like dude, that’s the one thing you’re not supposed to do.

[my-toh-theories-2]

So, so, so sorry in advance but this is gonna be a DUMB long post as I have So Many Thoughts that led into So Many Different Tangents but, some Belos, Caleb and his partner thoughts!!! Just the past for right now. This post was originally going to be about both the past and where I think TOH will go from there but honestly, I've been working on this stupid fucking post since early June. Idk why but I just keep hitting writing blocks writing about the future. I think it'd just be best to crank this one out now and hopefully some feedback will help me write about the future. Also I REALLY wanna get this out before S3 comes out djsjsk

Oh, and disclaimer. When talking about past Philip am I in no way trying to excuse any of the shit he pulled as Belos. Lmao no. Fuck him. This man lived for 300+ years and still didn't learn that genocide, colonization, bigotry, abuse, murder, etc. is bad, actually. He is a grown ass man capable of making his own choices and he chose to do this. To be like this. Only he and he alone is complicit in his own damnation and I hope he gets hit by a fucking truck lmao 

Anyways, onto the post!! 

Ok firstly just getting this out of the way, no, I don't think Caleb is inherently good and that Belos was just born evil (like look at child him in Hollow Mind his aura was purple before it became red). I think they're both just: people, who did both good and bad things. Just, were, y'know? What separates them I think is choice and the ability to change. When Caleb learned that witch hunting was actually wrong he chose to not want to become a witch hunter and changed for the better. When Philip learned it was wrong he chose to double down on his bigoted beliefs (well I think it's a bit more complex than that but I'll talk about it later lmao). They were just, both people, both kids, that came from the same fucked up environment. It's what they chose to do after they learned the truth and left that environment that differentiates them. 

Ok so, onto their childhood in the Human Realm. Something right off the bat that strikes me is how just, alone the two are. 

Sure they're having fun but it's just them. The only other people we see are just silhouettes in the background. We don't even see their parents!! Where are they? Hello??? I do think like Eda and Lilith they were each other's only friends. Also personal lil’ head cannon but I do think some parentification happened on Caleb's part and he was forced to act as a parental figure to Philip due to their parent's absence/neglect. Like, they're both figuratively and literally out of these pictures!!! This isn't even touching on the religious trauma these two most definitely have (lmaoo like look at Belos). God these kids came from such a fucked up home.

Also I think how the Emperor's Coven operates gives us a good picture on what their home life was like. Like look at this man that religious trauma had to have come from somewhere lol. In all seriousness tho Belos does have a major theme of the cycle of abuse (esp with the grimwalkers). Sometimes, when the cycle continues the abused turned abuser does so as a way to reclaim power. I feel small so I'm going to make you feel even smaller. Remember how he used his curse goo to make himself MASSIVE in Young Blood Old Souls? He is both figuratively and literally making himself bigger. To reclaim that power. He made Luz KNEEL before him. Made everyone else smaller.

I also noticed that sometimes when he does something horrible it looks just so goddamn cathartic to him. Like he's scratching some very deep wounds.

Ok back to their childhood djsjsks (I told you there were gonna be So Many Tangents fjskssk). But, now looking at the Gravesfeild crest: I think it gives us a pretty good look at how they felt about Gravesfeild/how they were perceived by their town. There are 3 variations in show. The golden guard crest which is just a bird in an outline that looks like a bird cage (like all it's missing is bars and the loop at top to hang it), Philip’s version that just has the wings under it no bird up top on his explorer jacket and the one in Gravesfeild that has both.

Considering that the version without wings is worn by Hunter and was the old Golden Guard sigil I think it's safe to say that Caleb is the bird in the bird cage. Philip also has a wing motif as Belos seen with his staff, coven sigil and rebuilt portal so yeah he's the wings. I do think the both of them didn't fit in in Gravesfeild but Caleb in particular really felt like he didn't fit in/belong there. Which, now that I think about it, yeah, makes sense. This kid is so happy go lucky and looks like he'd sob if he accidentally stepped on a bird lol. His name, Caleb, means wholehearted too. (It could also mean dog idk every website I looked at kept contradicting each other saying “oh it’s wholehearted,” “NO it actually means DOG the other website was wrong,” “ACTUALLY-” DJFJFJ. I digress lol. I’m just gonna view it as both sdkfsj.) Anyways, he really just doesn't look like witch hunting material. On the other hand I don't think Philip (and Belos now) feels the same way as his adventuring outfit does have a simplified logo of the crest on his jacket only without the bird (Caleb) in the bird cage. But that doesn't change the fact that the pair of wings are still under the birdcage... he was just as trapped as Caleb. Imo Philip gives me the vibes of someone who doesn’t fit into society in one way or another yet desperately wants to.

Now one last tidbit about their childhood before I move on to them entering the demon realm. Philip and Belos are shown in show to be ambidextrous but left-hand dominant. And, in childhood is shown only using his right hand. Considering his time period... yeah they forced this kid to be right-handed didn’t they? And considering how the left hand was believed to be the “devil’s hand” or smthing I wouldn’t be surprised if he developed a lot of self loathing and self hatred from that that would then, to him, be later used to justify his horrible actions. “I’m already an evil sinner for being left handed so why even try be good? There’s no point.” A very nasty self fulfilling prophecy. Idk Just a thought.

Also I think it's super interesting how Belos has a bird motif but only as wings. Never an actual bird of his own. Nor does he fully become left-handed. He never really fully self actualized nor healed huh. Which, yeah Hollow Mind basically confirmed that with inner kid Belos. The guy was crying alone when we first met him. Plus that painting of adult him post fratricide wearing his childhood mask Caleb made of him. He really is just a giant man child huh? 

Ok now onto them entering the demon realm. Firstly, I do think they were "lured in by a real witch." It's both what the historical account says and what Philip's own memories show. Only Philip's journal says otherwise and well, we know he lied a FUCK TON in that journal I wouldn't really trust anything he says in that unless shown otherwise (and I'm not really gonna rely on that for this post). Also Philip’s journal explanation of how he got there reeks of bullshit.

“After 5 years I have finally found it. A power source so potent it can pierce through realms: Titan’s blood. There are old tales of lakes reflecting green trees and blue skies. The Titan’s veins run through the land and many believe these wild portals are made when a little of it’s blood leaks into the water. That is how I came here, so that is the first place I shall look. I will journey back to Eclipse Lake.” Belos, Eclipse Lake

So you’re telling me that you came through a wild portal and only NOW after trying to make a portal door for 5 YEARS you just thought to look into wild portals???? Only NOW?????? Dude if someone got isekai-ed to the demon realm through a wild portal and wanted to get back home they would IMEDITALLY look into wild portals to figure out how they worked to get back home. You’re telling me you only thought to look into these wild portals NOW?????? AFTER 5 YEARS????? Yeah no I’m calling bullshit.

Ok, lil’ side rant tangent done. But, I do think the memories are biased from Philip's perspective and I don't think that's quite how it went down. Mindscapes do reflect the individual after all. Anyways, there looks to be 2 paintings of the event and the historical depictions in Yesterday’s Lie.

This, what I think is most likely right before them entering the demon realm, and them being “lured in by a witch.” It’s honestly interesting how Caleb is framed from Philip’s perspective; it's like he’s on “his side” one minute then “on the side of the witches,” the next. Choosing them over him. This encounter in both the historical account and in Philip’s memories is framed as a deal with the devil of sorts. A temptation of sin. A corruption of Caleb.

But, I don’t think that fast “switch” is what happened for Caleb. That’s not how it happens for ex-cult members/deradicalization. It’s a very long process. And within the historical account he’s pretty friendly with the witch, shaking their hand and he already has Flapjack on his shoulder. Going off of this he could’ve already been “on their side” for years at this point. This day is just the first time Philip found out about it. Which is why he’s on “his side” one minute and then “the witches side” the next.

When Luz first enters the Demon Realm not really of her own choice, her Azura book is almost burned by Eda. Mirroring Philip's journal almost being burned in Elsewhere and Elsewhen. However, when Luz chooses to stay at the end of the episode, the eye from “Del's tower” blinks. The first and only time it's done that.

Anyways, when they enter the demon realm Caleb looks 18/19 and Philip looks mid-teens. And then there's just a huge time skip to young adult Philip traveling the Boiling Isles?? Girl what happened during that time period??? Well, I'd like to propose an idea. 

A while back I made a speculative post wondering that, hey, considering that this show loves to do parallels what if the Wittebane brothers were once in a trio similar to our modern day trio of Eda, King and Luz? Caleb is Luz, Philip is King and that "witch that lured them in" is Eda. Belos already feels like a worse case scenario of King. And well, since then we learned more (like Luz really parallels Caleb now) + we know this hole in time exists, yeah l really think this is what happened lol.

Starting off with Philip again he does feel like he’s a worst case senario of King. Mainly season 1 King. Like this man became an actual tyrant. It’s like he never got his own Echoes of The Past moment (or he could’ve and it just never stuck). 

They’re both little guys with big Napoleon complexes that want to be taken seriously. They crave power, have main character syndrome and treat people like minions (with Philip specifically treating others like NPCs). Season 1 King had this King of Demons fantasy and a lot of his own self worth was tied up into this story. Which hey, sounds a lot like a certain someone’s journal.

Imo I think his own fantasy was a “chosen one” fantasy. There’s a lot of little references to him in Witches Before Wizards. Luz’s toy sword’s hilt has a crown on top like the Emperor’s sigil, the chosen one map has a bunch of lil’ suns on it (as Belos he has a sun motif seen in propaganda paintings I’d show them but posts have a 30 pic post limit sflakjzjk), and Azura shares a lot of design similarities with Belos. 

They also share possessiveness and a fear of being abandoned. Remember when King shrunk down Willow and Gus due to his jealousy and possessiveness of Luz in Really Small Problems? When they all get shrunk down and Tibbles throw them into the tent of tiny terrors they (and by they I mean more specifically King) have to fight against horses with blue eyes. (If you didn't know the name Philip means friend of horses which yeah, that's pretty self explanatory).

As much as I just harped on him (I mean it's very easy and fun to bully this senior citizen) I do actually think this lil trio did him some good. Remember my whole spiel about the wings? I personally think it came from here. Whether he was actually putting in the effort or it was better, not abusive, environment + Caleb, like Luz, bringing the best out of everyone I'm unsure. Could be both. I do 100% think Caleb brought out the best in Philip and that's why he went downhill fast without him.

With Caleb while yeah he def parallels Luz by falling in love with a witch but I also think they parallel in spirit, falling in love with the demon realm + wanting to stay and in their affinity for magic. Like, Belos straight up tells Luz, "I like your spirit," in Young Blood Old Souls dhsnsj yeah.

In terms of magic remember this man made Flapjack. Which is, y’know, a right of passage for a witch. Also this is a show about witches, demons and magic with the main villain being a puritanical 1600s witch hunter. So his brother both falling in love with a witch and becoming one is very fitting lol.

Bit of a tangent but I wanna talk about what kind of magic he practiced cuz I think I cracked it lol. It definitely wasn't glyphs cuz Belos had to learn that on his own (and remember had a very difficult time with it it took him years to find those glyphs). Knowing Caleb he probably would've just, shared that knowledge with his brother. I think he practiced elemental magic instead. And I don't think it's a coincidence that the first time we heard of it being a thing is when Hunter mentioned it in Hunting Palismen. 

When Hunter fights with Flapjack in Eclipse Lake the attacks he used is elemental in nature. Lighting bolt shower (fire), a stone fist (earth) and his teleportation which feels very electric. Tying it back to that lighting bolt shower. But Belos never really uses any spells like that just sticking to glyphs (except that one time he moved rock in Young Blood; Old Souls but remember with the right combination you can cast anything). This... has some interesting implications. Firstly, we know magic is a gift from the isles. The Titan will tell it to you, you just gotta listen. So, if I'm right about Caleb practicing elemental magic, why show that to Caleb and not to either Philip or Luz? And why doesn't Belos use it? He does want to definitely wants to look at these unfinished glyph combos in Them’s The Breaks, Kid. They’re all elemental in nature...

Windy is air, the water fountain is water, petrification is stone. There isn't a fire one cuz it already exists in glyph form. The envy here is pulpable lol

Also remember how Philip called glyphs picto-glyphs in Elsewhere and Elsewhen? If you look into the etymology of the word picto it derives from Latin, meaning panting/to paint. On the contrary we know spoken spells are a thing and thanks to Hooty's Moving Castle we know a human too can cast a spoken spell. Mabye it's a language barrier? That's why the Titan only showed Caleb elemental magic to stop Philip and showed Luz glyph magic cuz it's much eaiser to learn for a beginner compared to elemental magic? Just an idea but yeah. But I do think he practiced elemental magic tho. Elemental magic user Caleb truther.

Oh and one more Luz and Caleb parallel I wanna talk about. "You witches come up with the worst lies." Belos, Elsewhere and Elsewhen. Considering that he parallels both Luz and Eda (I will talk about the latter’s parallels soon) and that both have lied/withheld the truth in the past.... That line was also about Caleb wasn't it Philip? I mean the episode where we learned that Caleb existed was the same one where Luz told her mom the truth about where she’s actually been (Yesterday’s Lie) … Idk just wanted to put this here cuz this line has always stuck out to me as having a double meaning.

Again, hard to really write anything for their Eda but considering how she had that portal door for years and freely traveled back and forth for decades; I'd assume their version of Eda had their own door that later got destroyed (like how Eda's door got destroyed) trapping the Wittebane brothers in the demon realm.

Before we go back into the timeline I wanna go over their Clawthorne sisters parallels. Cuz yeah, it's pretty obvi they parallel them too (GOD this show loves doing parallels fjsksk). In Them’s The Breaks, Kid we actually learn that joining the Emperor’s Coven was more Lilith’s dream and Eda only tagged along because she didn’t want to be separated from Lilith. But, when she met Raine and learned how fucked up covens actually were thanks to Terra she realized that she that she could actually decide for herself. That joining the Emperor’s Coven wasn’t her only path in life she had options. And months later she made that choice. I think Caleb was the same way. 

Like yeah he’s having fun but he’s not looking up at the witch hunters in the same aspirational awe like Philip is. Again, I think Caleb was “on the witches’ side” before entering the demon realm. Unsure when this change began to happen for Caleb but I do think it was a process (I mean this kind of deradicalization is always a progress but I digress.)

After Eda made her choice the sisters then stopped talking: becoming foils to one another as well as ideologically opposing each other. Eda the free wild witch who refuses to join a coven vs Lilith the tamed and subdued Coven witch. A big S1 main plot point was Lilith trying to tame Eda and force her to join the Emperor’s Coven thinking that it’d be both for her good and that Belos would heal her.

Ngl I think this happened to the Wittebane brothers when they first entered the demon realm. Becoming foils and ideologically opposing each other. Specifically about their thoughts about the demon realm, magic and witches. Philip saw the demon realm as his fantasy world to conquer and colonize. Magic as dangerous (a LOT of his propaganda is about how magic/wild magic is dangerous. As bullshit as his propaganda is I do think there’s little nuggets of truths in said propaganda.) And witches as subhuman. Caleb however saw the demon realm as just another place that he eventually wanted to live in, magic as beautiful and witches as equals.

Now, back to the timeline and to when Philip's traveling the Demon Realm. Again, I'm taking the journal with a HUGE grain of salt and I'll mostly be focusing on the paintings but, looking at them I get the vibe that Philip traveled alone?

I wouldn’t put it past him to want to do his “hero’s journey” alone. But it could also just be him being egotistical again and making the story in his journal all about him. He also could’ve split from everyone else at some point before the fratricide. Eclipse Lake seems like a good point for him to do that. That is when he started growing a beard which symbolizes that a character isn’t doing too hot. Also during these travels is when he carved those glyphs into his skin and cursed himself… god he was Going Through It. I wouldn’t be surprised if this curse made him return back to and/or even doubled down on his childhood, witch hunting bigoted beleifs.

I also think Philip bottled up all of these negative feelings during this time too. Like, look at his expression when Caleb’s hugging/supporting Philip. He’s just, standing there; not allowing himself to accept this love and support with his curse. Not accepting help. And when you bottle up all of your emotions like that well... (heheh post foreshadowing).

Ok now onto Caleb cuz while his brother is off loosing his fucking mind he's off GETTING IT LMAOO. Anyways, these two. There's not much to go on cuz we don't know that much but I think that owl crest and Caleb's Alador connections can tell us some things. 

Oh also I do think they're Clawthorne ancestors. There's just so, so many little things tying the Wittebane brothers to the Clawthornes. How Eda and Hunter both say bye the same way (they also snort when they laugh), Eda's cloak has a little owl clasp that looks like Hunter's GG mask, Dell. Just, Dell fjsks. When Belos tries to flee back to the human realm after the Day of Unity his hair looks a bit like Eda's and Dell's. That reddit QNA where Dana said "bird themed houses are a Clawthorne thing." Fisksok there's more but I can't remember them all. But, you get my jist.

So something I’d like to start off with is all of Caleb’s Alador connections?? Same nose shape, same widows peak, they both had long hair in low ponytails before chopping it off. Also Alador’s Bonesborough brawl outfit had a lot of similarities to Caleb’s outfit. Why these connections? What do they mean? Off the bat I wondered if he and Wittewife were either parallels or foils to Alador and Odalia? I particularly lean more towards them being foils. Girlboss x malewife: healthy edition I guess? Also a while back round the end of S2 I speculated if Caleb made the Jean-Lucs and that “King’s castle” was just a Titan hatchery/daycare because of this connection (I mean it is something he could make without a bile sack lol. Stone + glyph abomination). Another potential foil.

But I think this connection could also mean something else. It could show us what it’d look like if Philip got his way. That Caleb instead just became Philip’s right hand man/side kick instead of wanting to choose his own life for himself and settling down with Wittewife. And what that’d specifically look like for Caleb too. Which is fucking miserable to say the least lol

Not much else to go off here cuz there’s so little to work with yeah. Also what this means for Wittewife and Odalia??? Too early to say lol. I’m gonna talk more about this in a bit but if they are foils then maybe a reverse Odalia? Instead of someone who claws her way to the top she was already on the top who then relinquished that privilege to live a more simple life? (I promise I am not pulling this out of my ass here there is some precedent here dsjsdkj).

Also I’d like to talk about Caleb’s Titan connections cuz there wow he Has Them? The first obvious one is the Titan death pose but they’re also both fathers and like the Titans, life too sprung from Caleb’s corpse (grimwalkers). 

Also the yellow sclarea and black pupil slit found on the portal door shows up fucking everywhere and is connected to the Titan’s via Eda’s wanted poster??? Like c’mon it’s most likely at this point that Caleb made this stupid fucking door (imo with Wittewife too cuz remember 2 people made the door) so that’s another connection??? Idk what any of this means just putting these observations on the table.

Almost forgot but when King was having his identity crisis in Knock Knock Knockin on Hooty's Door it happened in "Del's old tower." Which I'm pretty damn sure is the first and only time we're actually in that stupid tower.

Ok now, this thing. This thing shows up ALL the god damn time throughout the show. Only in Eda's home on her living room ceiling. But like seriously in rewatching episodes to write this stupid fucking post I realized how often this guy shows up. He also sometimes glows gold. This and all the little connections tieing the Wittebane brothers with the Clawthornes I think this guy was Caleb's and his partner's family crest that then became the Clawthorne family crest. Also, I have no basis for this, this is just my own dumb lil’ headcannon but I’d like to think they made the last name Clawthorne together. She’s the claw and he’s the thorne. They’re the start of the Clawthornes. Idk I just think it’s cute :3. Plus that’s how Belos would know that Eda and Lilith are descendants cuz it’s a name they made up so if someone has that last name, yeah, they’re most likely related. Remember he doesn’t eat both of their palismen and he’s pretty lenient with them whereas he’s much more cut throat with everyone else. So…

Ok back on track with this stupid fucking crest but something really interesting about it is it has a crown… why?? What??? This, led me down a fucking rabbit hole and I have SO many thoughts. Mayhaps a queen or something who then gave up her crown to live her life how she saw fit???? A reverse Odalia? (Also Odalia thought the day of unity would’ve made her family royalty and her a queen). I know that's a huge claim to make but hear me out.

Firstly there’s ruins on the knee that imply some grand/big structures and we see in Hollow Mind Belos destroying these now ruins. He is known to rewrite history and is the kind of petty bitch to completely erase her specifically from the history books. LMAO cope n sethe harder Bitchlos. However, let's look more closely at the ruins from Hollow Mind to Adventures In The Elements, from past to present.

That same archway with that dangling chain is in both past and present but if you look closely there is a big structure behind that archway in Hollow Mind that is now completely gone today… and Bill in Edge of The World called the Boiling Isles the “Carcass Kingdom '' instead of an Empire which is what it is now.

Also this. It's from the Owl pellets shorts from S1. It's a soap opera parody of a young, high class woman having to choose between a vain man who only wants her for the power she'd give him and a down to earth farm boy who actually loves her. That, Fucking Egg is wearing Caleb's outfit minus the shirt being white fjsjsk. Also those stupid fucking eyes are back GOD I think this is the smoking gun that show that yeah these eyes and Caleb are in some way connected fjsjsk.

Also this lol. “Little Prince...”

If I'm right and Wittewife was the queen who gave up her throne in some way I'm then in turn not insinuating that Caleb is now The True Good King or smthing. I really don't think TOH would go there. This is a fantasy show that breaks the fantasy genre. They're both just, people. And Caleb didn't fall in love with her because she is The Queen and wanted to be The King (like look at how he dresses he's pretty down to earth). He fell in love with Wittewife, not the queen. And they both just wanted to live a simple life together in the woods.

But I don't think that's how Philip saw it. He can't pull himself out of the fantasy. Out of his little power fantasy. And here's Caleb is who Stole His Dream. Absolute, pulpable envy.

Ok before we get onto the fratricide, the grimwalkers and what that all means I wanna talk about Belos for a bit. Specifically about why he became Belos. Again I don't think he was just born evil (nobody is). His child self's aura in his mindscape was purple after all. And in writing this post I think I finally get why he became Belos. He 1. can't accept help 2. he can't admit to fault and 3. aggrieved entitlement.

Firstly with being unable to accept help. I think his curse shows this off pretty well. Any and all offers of help from Hunter about his curse are quickly and violently shot down. And when Caleb supports Philip with his curse he doesn't even hug him back. He's just, standing there. Not allowing himself to be vulnerable and accept Caleb's love and support. Of course when you don't allow yourself to open up with your emotions well, things bottle up...

Secondly he can't admit to any faults. Think about the grimwalkers. It's always them betraying him. When in reality it sounds like they wanted to either leave or opposed him cuz they found out either about the other grimwalkers or more out about him. This motherfucker has SO many both metaphorical and LITERAL skeletons in his closet that when your average person finds out about them they OBVIOUSLY bail. Dude it’s you dsjhdj. You’re the problem. Incel-esque motherfucker.

"You know. Unfettered wild magic wiped out our family. Everyone knew too much and got themselves hurt." Hunter, Hollow Mind

“Not unless he stays on the right path. I tell him, “the Titan has big plans for you,” and he does what he’s told. Unlike the previous attempts.” Belos, Hollow Mind

Also think about how he acts when confronted with an angry Luz and Lilith after he just tried sacrificing them in Elsewhere and Elsewhen. This man just casually brushes off their rightful anger about him almost killing them. And, after they demand info from him he has the GAUL to say that they need to further work for him before he’ll give that info. Then he goes full mask off with a childish temper tantrum in his little cuck no bitches cave after Lilith decked him. “Those barbarian witches!” DUDE!! Lilith baby girl PLEASE punch him again I am BEGGING YOU.

And finally, Aggrieved entitlement. God I love this word and I'm so glad I found it while writing this stupid fucking post cuz it describes both Belos and well, fucking everything SO WELL. It's a pretty broad word but it's specifically relating to men. Broadly, it's when men in general feel like their "rightful place" as men is challenged and their access to their "rightful things" such as money, power and/or women is diminished or denied. It's humiliation that eventually turns itself into violence. Y'know, incels! The manosphere, MRAs etc!! It is why they are Like That.

This ties into Philip and both his main character syndrome + his eventual colonization of the Boiling Isles. He feels that, as a white cishet man, he ought to be the main character. That this is his fantasy story. His world. And in any other fantasy story it would be. But not here. Luz, a bi, poc and gnc girl is the main character. And the Demon Realm isn't going to give him special treatment just cause he's a white human man. He's not special. That's not what the Demon Realm is. And in fact his lack of a bile sack actually puts him lower on the totem pole in this society and it's very clear that this pisses him off. "Here to gawk? I may not have a bile sack but I still have dignity." This envy then turns inwards as he carves glyphs into his skin; cursing himself in the process.

Wonder if they’ll discuss toxic masculinity with Belos too. Cuz all 3 of these problems are PEAK toxic masculinity. Knowing this show possibly. I’d personally would like to see it lol.

OK! Fratricide time! Hurray!! Ok firstly I don't think this was just all over Caleb being with a witch. Well, that was what was apart of it yes but it's not all of it. I think this particular moment was the culmination of all of the things Belos hated about Caleb. A nasty tipping point.

Firstly I wanna talk about the portal door. "Two people made it," either Caleb and Belos made it or Caleb and his partner made it (I strongly lean towards the latter). Someone had to have had made this fucking thing. And remember, Eda found the portal door buried in dirt in the ruins of a structure. That same structure surrounds the Emperor's Castle today. With these 2 connections I think it's pretty safe to say the fight happened in those ruins. Portal door + those ruins paints a fight not just about him being with a witch but also Caleb not going home with him. “We don’t belong here.” Belos to Luz, King’s Tide. Belos is really, weirdly, obsessive and possessive of Caleb (cough cough grimwalkers). To Belos, this feels like a betrayal. Like Caleb is choosing them, choosing sin over him. Replacing him with Wittewife. Look at this painting they both have the same lil front hair cow lick.

Choosing to become a witch rather then become a witch hunter with him.

Of course this all doesn't mean Caleb wouldn't still visit/keep in touch he definitely loves his brother. Like think about that panting of Caleb supporting Philip while he's suffering from his curse. That pure love and support on his face for his baby brother. He'd never abandon him. Nor choose someone else over him. And hey they got that portal door now he'd obviously come and visit you, Philip. This is just Philip's worst fears which he feels has just come to fruition. That Caleb is abandoning and replacing him with Wittewife.

But I don’t really think that’s the end of it though. People are messy. And even the most evil of people feel. And it's pretty clear that he does feel guilty about this. It is his worst memory after all.

The shock and fear of being forced to relive those memories again. The grief of seeing Caleb’s dead body. And finally, curiously, him making a grimwalker. Where he then screams. Imo I think this was the first grimwalker and he thought he was bringing Caleb back. Not making a clone. Which is why he then screams. Caleb’s gone.

I think the panting of Ivan The Terrible killing his own son describes the soul crushing guilt here better then I ever could. 

Before I end this post here I want to talk a bit about the grimwalkers and what they mean. Like yeah at first glance it’s a metaphor for the cycle of abuse. But, what does this mean for Belos? Why add this to his character? He knows they’re not Caleb, they’re all their own people but he keeps going. He keeps making them. And he keeps killing them once they "betray" him. Why? Again, I think it’s because he can’t bare to live his life without Caleb.

Think about how he kills off all the grimwalkers when they “betray” him. How he tried trapping Hunter, alone, forever, in his subconscious while he and Luz were trapped in his mindscape. How even though he knew Hunter’s sigil would kill him in a week’s time he was still on the hunt for him. It's because like how Belos can't bare to live his life without Caleb, none of the grimwalkers are allowed to live their own lives without Belos.

"You know, unfettered wild magic wiped out our family. Everyone knew too much and got themselves hurt." Hunter, Hollow Mind

"I say, the Titan has big plans for you. And he does what he's told. Unlike the previous attempts." Belos about Hunter, Hollow Mind. Again, cuz it bares repeating.

And just a lil note about the grimwalkers. It's not that the grimwalkers have Caleb's Good Gene or some other weird bio-essentialist thought that makes them "rebel." The problem is Belos. He only uses people then throws them away once he's done. Nobody is gonna wanna stick around with a person who treats them like that. And nobody is gonna wanna stick around when they find the numerous skeletons in his closet too. He's always been the problem. (Baring Kikimora but I think what she represents is what he's looking for in a Caleb sidekick. He just doesn't notice cuz 1. Demon and 2. Not Caleb. His head is stuck pretty far up his own ass I noticed).

Oh and one last thing before I end this but like a little taste for the future post...

I really don’t think the Day of Unity is the end of Belos’ plans. I didn’t then and I still don’t. Look at this man he thrives off of his own bullshit you seriously think he’s gonna stop now lol? And Caleb. Why add him to Belos’ story? We know he desperately wants him back... and we know he knows the time pools exist...

“Witches and demons are real. And they’re all sent from Mars to harvest human teeth to power their time machine.” Jacob, Yesterday’s Lie

OK DONE.

[angelcloves]

I'm not saying that Caleb is a saint or anything, but laying all of Philip's later actions at his feet because he "left his little brother behind" is uh, yeah…

Not a good take. I don't normally like to assume this of people, but it sounds pretty victim blame-y to me. Sorry, Anon.

Philip had the right to be upset that Caleb "left him".

(Although my personal way of looking at it is comparing it to what Luz did at the start of TOH. She was tired of her life. It was seemingly going downhill, in a direction that she very much did not want it to take. So when an opportunity to "escape" and run around a PG13 fantasy land instead appeared, of course she took it. Luz loves her mom, she never intended to permanently stay in the BI's. But circumstances prevented her from returning to the human world in a timely matter. I truly think something similar is what happened with Caleb when he went to the BI's)

Philip had the right to be dearly worried for Caleb's safety given that his big brother was last seen in the company of a witch and Philip had been raised to fear and hate witches for what they can do.

I'll make the argument that Philip even had the right to give Caleb a piece of his mind when he saw him in (presumed) domestic bliss with Evelyn.

(I think anybody would if they spent ages terrified for a family members' safety, only to find them happy as a clam with their "captors" later on!)

Philip did not have the right to murder his own brother. Full stop. Nothing Caleb did justified Philip stealing his own life from him. Nothing could ever justify something as drastic as that!

We don't know the specifics of what exactly went down. We don't know if Philip tried to murder Evelyn first or if he was the one who started the fire blazing in the background during the Wittebane Brothers final fight.

But we do know that Philip was cursed prior to finding his brother and Evelyn again. Given what we know regarding the nature of his curse...

Yeah, I don't think Horse Boy was living a good little "Christian" life in the BI's even before he murdered his own brother.

Philip's distressing childhood only justifies so much. Yes, he was raised to hunt witches. But when given the opportunity to live amongst them, when shown that they aren't monsters, they're just people, honestly not all that different from him and his brother...

He still choose to harm them.

Philip made his own choices in the end, full stop. He had countless opportunities to not fall back on his childhood teachings, but he always did. Even at the very end of his life, he went out insisting that witches were inherently evil and human were always good. He sealed his own fate in the end, Caleb had nothing to do with that.

YOU GET IT. ill admit my word choice in the initial answer wasnt ideal but caleb didnt run away thinking 'fuck my idiot brother cant stand that guy' he ran away because he was most likely MISERABLE in gravesfield and had the opportunity to be loved and appreciated for who he was and was able to unlearn everything that his society forced onto him. i feel like i have to say this all the time but caleb was just some guy. and he made an impulsive decision that he wasnt able to reverse. he wasnt evil for wanting to live a fulfilling life in a place that loved him. philip chose to let himself stay mad for centuries and saw treachery where there was none. you cannot in good faith put the blame on caleb when all he did was take his chance to live and have it get yanked away from him entirely too soon

[eldragon-x-moved]

re: your worries about hunter's character, i agree! some people take the whole 'it always hurts when they choose to betray me' to mean 'there is a persistent thread of goodness running through the gg's granted to them by caleb' but i feel its... too simplified 😅?

like, caleb was not an inherently good person! he may have been the 'nicer' brother, for all we know, but he came from the same world as philip - and thus came from the same belief system.

what makes caleb (potentially, he hasn't officially shown up yet) appealing is that he made the choice to change and stuck with it, and thus lived a happy life.

the tragedy of it (assuming why he left the human realm is what hunter said - he didn't get to choose his own future) is that not only did his destiny come back to haunt him, in the form of the brother who probably idolised him no less, but also went on to destroy the very land he loved.

but that's caleb. hunter is very much a massive byproduct of that tragedy, but he is still his own person. he is very capable of compassion, but like caleb, he had to make that choice to abandon his old worldview. acting like caleb is responsible for hunter's growth in character dilutes the meaningfulness of hunter's actions.

in fact, to me, it dilutes the whole situation of the grimwalkers. it isn't a 4 centuries long battle between the brothers, good vs evil, but a thick trail of blood spanning so many goddamn years, powered by one man's twisted grief and costing the lives of so many undeserving individuals

(sidenote: i find it more fascinating when if not all the gg's were good 🤔. like, as in some of them proudly subjugated the wild witches, but still died anyway because philip felt they lacked the very thing the fandom believes they have: caleb's 'inherent' kindness)

tl;dr: attributing hunter's good traits to caleb dilutes the effort hunter was made to change, and also simplifies the tragedy of the gg's to an unsatisfactory degree

LITERALLY I've been saying I like the thought of not all the ggs being good because they're all different people. What made Belos consider Hunter a traitor was so much as just asking questions about the previous Guards. Belos looks at the Golden Guards as disposable reincarnations of Caleb who have to meet certain standards, otherwise he's just going to start over with the next one. But in actuality the Golden Guards are a bunch of people who get nothing from Caleb but the looks and are in danger to be killed if they are just a bit too different or just a bit too off of Belos' ideals. He is merely projecting Caleb onto them.

[let-us-cultivate-our-garden]

If you turn Belos into a Bad Seed and inherently evil, then that would actually worsen his character and by extension, Caleb. Both brothers came from the same horrible environment and made decisions with lasting repercussions. Caleb chose to leave, arguably because of the pressure of raising his little brother and saw a way to escape Gravesfield. However, this makes Philip feel abandoned. Philip clung to his ideals in pursuit of Caleb because it’s all he had and when he kills Caleb, it’s what he uses to justify his actions. 

Making Caleb the Good Brother and Philip the Bad Brother undermines both characters and cheapens the lessons of their story.

Not condoning his actions obviously, but some of y’all try make Belos so much more fucked up than he already is and it just defeats his character imo. Like he was already shown to have a somewhat normal childhood for the time period he’s from, idk why people have to make him evil even as a child instead of like, realizing his decent is entirely his own fault bc of his hypocrisy and the beliefs he harboured and not like an inherent thing he was born as lmao