#not you you're just utterly nonsensical and wrong and doing evil things

[slimyenemy]

whatever *kills everyone*

[witchofanguish]

I think this is worth digging into because... yes. In the arguments which feed the roots of Vs Debates this is easier to ignore - if you're ultimately arguing about metal cans shooting each other in space then you can pretend they could exist in the same world, that what they are is comparable. However, this is a pretense. We can see it shatter obviously in cases like, say, Mage the Ascension, where the entire debate hinges on which cosmology you're accepting, because mages are only limited to relatively (by Vs Debates standards) limited feats due to an actively hostile environment, or TypeMoon. Is the Death Star an A-rank mystery? Would a Space Marine landing in MtAsc Manhattan explode from paradox? The answer is asking there questions marks you as deeply deranged. Okay, but Batman is a human, right? Supposedly made out of atoms and whatever? Why can't we compare him to humans? Well, no. To sound utterly pedantic, he's a fictional character, not a human. If a human kicks a tree and it bursts apart, we can conclude 'holy shit I do not want to be kicked by them, they've got TNT thighs'. We live in a world ultimately dictated by the standard model and general relativity. It has rules. The force it takes to blow apart a tree and to cave in a man's chest are relatable. If Batman kicks a tree and it flies apart, and you flip the page thinking 'oh man, oh man batman is going to cave in a man's chest in his next fight' you'd be wrong, you fool, he's going to get held up by a bunch of untrained dudes in sweaters holding pipes. The tree is for aesthetic, for looks and metaphor and style. It's an RPG character getting an unopposed roll against a piece of scenery and the GM saying 'yeah, go for it, break apart that tree in your rage, i'm not giving you a bonus to your attack rolls in the next fight'. Now, granted, if you saw Batman get held up by a couple dudes with lead pipes and figured a squad of ten ninjas or Darkseid, evil alien god, would destroy him you'd also be wrong. This is why 'feats' and 'calcs' for Batman don't matter. They aren't predictive. The aesthetic is. Some stories have calcs which meet their aesthetic decently well - the Culture, for example - and so we can use the calcs as a lesser substitute, sometimes. Other stories, like Mage the Ascension, have feats so contextual that a Vs Debate always starts and is mostly decided by which aesthetic you're letting predominate. So what's the aesthetic of Batman against 160,000 nerds? Well, it's... nonsense. That's not a number even the most ambitious comic book writer would throw at him, just use a decently big crowd of a couple hundred, and it's such a bizarre set-up that being 'in-character' is actively confusing things. But if Batman did have to fight a big crowd, how would he do it? Probably not with his fists. If he was in an enclosed area and it wasn't 100,000+ he might punch them out, one or two at a time, ending with a panel of the bloody, bruised Caped Crusader limping out of the basement of some seedy nightclub only to collapse into the Batmobile, which drives him back to Wayne Manor. If it was a bit more open - like a theatre, huh wonder if we've seen that - he'd fight for a bit and find some trick to escape and possibly trap/disable them. If it was really open he'd grapple out or call in his Batmobile's Tesla Autopilot Mode for pickup. If it was maze-like he'd use stealth. But in a big open arena, against 100,000, it's not in Batman's aesthetic to fight them at all. Edit: If the question that comes to you after reading this is 'why are you in Vs Debates, then?' And the answer is I'm looking for a good story about who would win. Or a good joke about how. The problem is a six megajoule kick, in this thread, is a joke being treated like a story.

[queen-of-the-misfit-toys]

I Would Do Anything for Love But I Won't Do (Eat) That

Warnings: none. Not a one. Unless you're a pastaphobe.

Word count: about 475. Wee thing.

This is pure nonsense deriving from a very interesting conversation. I couldn't get this out of my head so here you go. BTW... Benedict is me here 😂.

___________________________________________

“Soph! I'm here, Darling!” Benedict shouted as he walked in the door. “It smells amazing in here!”

Sophie appeared from the kitchen, giving him a quick kiss.

“Happy Anniversary, my love. I've made your favorite, pasta Alla vodka. And there's tiramisu for dessert.”

“I’d rather have you for dessert.” He growled, grabbing her waist and pulling her flush before kissing her deeply.

She pulled away, making him groan.

“Maybe you can, if you're a good boy. Can you be a good boy for me? Hmmm?” She taunted, patting his cheek.

“I guess.”

“Wonderful, my love. Please pour the wine while I plate up. I'll be just a minute.”

Benedict dutifully poured two glasses of red wine and arranged the flowers he'd hidden in his jacket in the center of the table, humming to himself as he worked.

“Oh Benedict!! The flowers are gorgeous! Thank you, my love!” Sophie exclaimed as she came in carrying their plates. “Sit, sit, everything is ready.”

She placed the plates in front of them, not noticing the smile had dropped from Ben's face.

They sat for a few minutes, talking about everything and nothing, before she noticed.

“My love, is everything alright? You've barely touched your food. You've eaten more salad than anything. Is something wrong with the sauce?”

“The sauce is great, Soph. Really. It's fine.”

“Then why aren't you eating it?”

Benedict took a deep breath and sighed.

“It's the penne, Sophie. You've never made it with penne before. I can't eat it. I just can't.”

“Oh!! Did I cook it too long? It's overcooked. I knew it. I'm so sorry, Ben!”

“No no. I'm sure it's cooked perfectly, Darling. I just can't…won't…eat penne. It's just a weird hangup I have.”

Sophie stared at him blankly, trying to hide her giggles.

“Okayyyyyy. Did you have a traumatizing experience with it as a child? Anthony beat you with a penne noodle or something?”

“I know it sounds ridiculous and it is but I cannot eat it!” Benedict emphasized. “It's…it's evil, Soph. Penne is fucking evil.” He broke off with an embarrassed smirk.

Sophie could no longer keep it in, roaring with laughter.

“Oh my God, Ben! Really? Evil?”

“I swear it, Soph! It is! I can't prove it but it is!” He exclaimed, laughing as well. “I'm sure it's the favorite food of serial killers or something.”

“Oh my love. I adore you. Even if you are utterly ridiculous.”

“Thank you, Darling, for understanding. I'm going to order a takeaway if you don't mind.”

“Of course I don't…Benne.”

“Sophia!!”

“Benne…Benne…Benne.” She joked as he chased her around the room.

“Stop it Sophie. Please!”

“Ok ok I'll stop!” She laughed as he caught her, tickling her stomach.

“Happy Anniversary, Darling.” He murmured against her lips as he turned her to face him.

“Happy Anniversary...Benne.”

[sole-supernova-sophont]

What I find quite interesting is how people will define a "bad person" or an "abusive person" as someone who is callous, cruel, willing to undercut and harm and manipulate vulnerable others into suffering for their own personal amusement or just for really no reason at all.

But this definition includes the overwhelming majority of humanity. Even and most especially people who consider themselves good, sweet, progressive, nice, or even heroic people.

How many times have you snickered with your human flockmates about another human who didn't hold up to your standards? One who was "cringe", or weird, or seeming overly hurt over something you think is minor? Probably more times than you even remember. You probably wouldn't consider such things bad, and would defend yourself if confronted.

Of course, you think it's bad to hurt a vulnerable person! ... unless they're weird, or too paranoid, or overbearing, or get social rules wrong. Then it is open season, right? Oh, you'll make a nice neat little good-sounding excuse for it- no, they were a Bad Person, so it's fine to hurt them! Oh, how heroic of you. Or if there's nothing so justifiable in reach, perhaps you will pivot to saying, "oh, but they need to get help. They need therapy. They need to stop being lazy." or some other nonsense.

Unfortunately, you are nothing special. You are surely not the hero you are in your mind, but you're also not uniquely evil. Such behavior of yours is far too common to be written off as a mark of inherent evil. You're just trying to fit in with the flock. Forget labeling yourself as good or evil, or even your actions as good and evil- as long as you cling onto these sick fictions that are only mechanisms for humans to use to justify or decry others' behavior on pretty-sounding grounds, you will still hurt others far more than necessary.

Instead of such utterly useless questions like "am I or am I not doing the Right Thing", or "am I or am I not a Good Person", consider these instead: What am I doing? Who is this impacting? What consequences may this action have? May they cause suffering? Am I being honest with myself? What information can I gain to make these answers more clear? What is my prioritization here? Who and what do I value, and why do I value it?

These will prove far more useful. "Who is Good" and "Who is Bad" is a young child's way of thinking. Don't waste your time on it.