#saezuru thoughts

[ilovesaezuru]

Thinking back to how Saezuru began, and following the narrative thread until the last chapter, I have the feeling that the ending of Saezuru will be very similar to its beginning, with the two protagonists separated from the world around them. The path and all the changes undergone seem to lead to an exchange of roles between Y and D. Y seems to distance himself from the Yakuza over time, D, on the contrary, feels very at ease. Saezuru is a healing journey that aims to rediscover oneself through love. Every step forward brings us closer to the origin, to the true identity of the protagonists. Unlike D who deliberately chooses to be part of the Yakuza world, Y has always felt trapped in this world. So, I wonder, will it be possible to see them together in the end? It's hard for me to imagine an ending that isn't a goodbye. Maybe I'm to pessimistic.

[artemisrisen]

I think a key to unlocking yashiro’s anxiety with intimacy is for him to see doumeki’s enjoyment in sex come through. doumeki has kept himself in tight control this whole time; clinical, like it was described. with good reason, but it’s not allowing yashiro any room to breathe from the scrutiny. he’s trying but I can’t imagine this makes things any easier for someone so private with his emotions.

but when he sees doumeki’s expression as they position into missionary, he actually laughs and touches the other’s face - he relaxes! he sees doumeki isn’t unaffected! it’s the one part of the chapter where there’s nothing complicated about his reaction.

what I’m saying is, he needs to flick doumeki’s sensitive nipples (as noted in the 2007-2017 fanbook by sensei) or lick an earlobe and watch doumeki’s face contort or moan, and think - oh, I can do that to him. he likes it. and I think this will be a catalyst.

[commandermardukas]

"The thing that I was truly desiring..."

Love..

This is the thing that he truly desires. Affection. Tenderness. Care. Love...

But at the same time it is the thing that scares him the most. True enough it's like a curse that always binds him. The curse that love brings. The curse of loving and of wanting love. The curse of not getting the love he truly deeply desires. The most painful curse.

That's why he tried to run away from it, trample it, kill it. But it was futile. This curse is haunting him. And he is searching for it. Waiting for it. Desiring for it.

Yashiro is always at this curse's mercy. Always helpless at its feet.

[ilovesaezuru]

I feel like they're always trapped in some kind of loop, everything changed but nothing really changes . Yashiro’s confession is not enough, D still doesn't know what Y wants. How could possibly know when Y himself doesn't understand? I think D doesn't know how to answer to Yashiro's question, will you return for sex? He's still afraid that he'll say or do something wrong. Maybe that's why he chose not to answer.

Doumeki’s Distance

Now that I have read ch 57, I want to talk about Doumeki’s facade. It is comparable to Yashiro’s lustful neko act in that it protects him from getting hurt. When we think about Yashiro’s act, we know it made him miserable deep down and that it was detrimental to his overall mental health. So based on the fact that Yoneda Kou has established that facades are ultimately unhealthy for them and that it hurts them more than it helps them, I can’t look at Doumeki’s attitude in this sex scene as a good thing. I know others will disagree but we also see that even with the confession, Doumeki did not feel safe enough to open up himself. As tough as it is to think about, Yashiro added another layer to his trauma 4 years ago. This cold, distant act isn’t because he understands what Yashiro needs emotionally because if it was, he would have clarified who Izumi was to him or realize that Yashiro doesn’t want just sex. He acts in this way out of fear. Fear that he will lose control and fear that he will be abandoned by Yashiro again. I know this post will probably be unpopular judging from what i have seen on tumblr so far but this has been on my mind since Doumeki admitted that he hides his feelings so Yashiro won’t run away.

[swallowerofdharma]

I’m quite grateful for the current conversation happening around a trans reading of Yashiro and that there is a questioning in the first place. One of my more profound and “philosophical” interests is around a topic sometimes called “epistemology of ignorance”: a theory of knowledge and in particular of the active limitations of knowledge, of those practices that contribute to basically rendering invisible, obscure or obsolete (or “problematic”) those types of knowledge and information that don’t serve those in power. It’s a very active and quite persistent production of forms of marginalization that would not otherwise exist in such extreme forms, because people are rather capable of empathy unless relentlessly trained to discredit or push away certain narratives and alternative epistemic proposals. When talking about “ignorance” in this context, the goal is to familiarize ourselves with it, not to make ourselves feel worse, but to keep learning, to keep ourselves open and aware of how incredibly insular and limited our own knowledge might actually be, because we are always taught the basics in a very specific and always politically and ideologically motivated social contexts. But this is maybe not the place for this kind of framing, but more than anything: I don’t feel intellectually equipped to explain this topic. It’s something that I would invite people to look into themselves in case they want to, though.

It’s still worth considering that all trans experiences, but in particular those of trans women, are subject of the most violent pushbacks, and cultivated ignorance and prejudice contributed to epistemic injustices and practical oppression.

So in a broader context, because I am pleading guilty of thinking about things in broader terms in my pinned post so I don’t see why I shouldn’t at least try to, do we really need to absolutely confirm Yashiro’s identity as a (gay) man? What changes so dramatically if we look at Yashiro as a woman instead? Is she such a different person than suddenly the story told in Saezuru becomes less comfortable to read? But if that’s the case, shouldn’t we ask ourselves why? I specifically ask this question around the reading of Yashiro as a woman, rather than non-trasfeminine nonbinary or genderfluid in this instance. As these are all valid interpretations, Yashiro being a cis man is surprisingly to me the least likely interpretation for so many things that are shown in the text of the story. But because of a lack of habit of paying attention and because of specific forms of ignorance or bias, when I began reading the manga I didn’t really think about questioning Yashiro’s gender either, even when I was well aware of the recurring unreliability of certain statements in spoken dialogue or internal dialogue, and the depth of the story. But it didn’t take long for me to realize that there was something more to it, even if I was picking up things initially only on a subconscious level. I mean, I was associating specific songs with Yashiro that were all about other trans women’s experiences in non ambiguous terms. Yet until someone pointed to me this art and tags by Benvey I was still on the quite oblivious side of things. But you know what I kept thinking also? That the questions around Yashiro’s gender identity in text and in subtext seemed very intentional and I knew of Yoneda talking about another song as well, that she listened to often when thinking about Yashiro and about Yashiro’s deeper and oldest feelings. There are two different posts here on tumblr you can check and in particular this one with the Japanese transcript of the lyrics is particularly interesting to me, as Yoneda seems to be referring to the Japanese lyrics rather than the English ones for the song.

Let’s read the Japanese lyrics, retranslated in English (mostly via machine translation), just as an experiment, because of the different nuances that are even less ambiguous than in the final song:

Mother, look at this end of your love / Why was I born? Mother, your son is a deformed creature, neither man nor woman / Why was I born? It is your fault that I am so miserable / This pain, this ache / Even if I turn the mirror upside down / No one will look back at me / You say "Beauty lies in the heart" / "A heart as beautiful as a rose" / "Let's cultivate beauty in the heart" / But the roses have grown black and ugly / Mother, who told you to give birth? / Who asked to give birth to this pitiful body? / If only I hadn't been born

Mother, wait, that's not true. / Please forgive the anger boiling deep inside me, please, you are the only one I have now. I will suffer the torture of hell for eternity. Imprisoned in this cage, in this flesh, everything has gone to waste. It's over, Mother, I don't want this anymore. The pain won't go away, like the bruises eating away at my skin. It's all my fault, even without you telling me, I realized too late. And you entrusted it to me. When light shines at the end of lamentation, when love is born at the end of hope, you say, "Beauty lies in the heart," "The beauty of the heart is like a rose," "Let's cultivate the beauty of the heart," and the rose bloomed into an ugly black flower. You say, "Beauty lies in the heart," "The beauty of the heart is like a rose," "Let's cultivate the beauty of the heart," and the rose that bloomed was──I don't understand your words anymore. Mommy, get me out of here

There is usually a lot of music happening in my head and it changes when I read something and so I could not ignore which songs were so often playing while I read parts of Saezuru or while thinking about Yashiro, when I also looked at Benvey’s art and started paying attention and reading his posts @nanayashi-agenda Well, now I can understand why I was associating Yashiro with songs like “Candy says”, “Cripple and the Starfish” and half of Anohni’s discography, why that note about the Yoko Kanno and Scott Matthew’s song “beauty is within us” was so present in my memory, even when it’s from ten years ago, and my interest so picked with all the interactions between Yashiro and other women in the manga, sometimes in the minuscule details. Why I was thinking about a crossover with the movie “The Birds”, because Yashiro’s character had partially merged in my head with the one portrayed by Tippy Hedren, especially for the instances where the character interacts with three key women: the little sister, the mother and the ex-girlfriend of her love interest.

I began to consider the possibility that Yoneda was rather intentionally drawing out many aspects of Yashiro’s identity that is good for us to question and not just be content with on a surface level, in a similar way that she thought about putting there the references to the police and the laws around sexual violence, the different mind/body’s responses to it and how slowly shifting the attention from only the more blatant forms of violent assault to the notion of consent and other forms of more subtle coercion might still not be enough to counteract other narratives. If you start reading the story and taking it in, the layers are there and it’s not like there is no time between a chapter and the next to reread. I think there is always something more to gain from paying attention here, beyond the satisfaction of our preexisting expectations.

And would it be that surprising in manga to find a certain fluidity regarding gender representation? Even in a yakuza family setting for that matter, like there has never been a Stop!! Hibari-kun! manga and anime, just to make one example? As a teenager I was collecting all the volumes of Ranma 1/2, and we are certainly not talking of obscure titles, or very niche, but we are talking about titles published in Weekly Shōnen Jump and Weekly Shōnen Sunday, respectively. Regardless of the commercial exploitation of the genre now labeled as bl and increasingly specialized magazines, I am glad that there is space for some of the stories that come out of these to have that same creative, unapologetic queer and avant-garde spirit of the most beloved manga titles, mainly in the Shōjo demographic, that created this possibility in the first place. Yashiro might just be cis in your preferred reading of the manga, in your preferred interpretation, but that doesn’t have to be necessarily correct as the only possibility and plainly obvious to everyone, you know?

[dragomfry]

Implications of Doumeki’s Trauma, mainly with the Nurse

I haven’t seen many discuss the significance of the nurse trauma or why they think it was written that way to begin with, so here’s some of my thoughts

TW: CSA, SA, parental neglect

I’m glad that the story treats the moment with the nurse as SA of a male by a female, rather than Doumeki “being lucky” to have done it with a woman (gross). It’s not often that this situation is represented without it being played as a joke or as something… desirable. (I wanted to puke just writing that).

But the moment is brought up once then not again (from what I recall), and its effects are hard to see without reading far into the text, so I’ve always questioned why this instance was written as Doumeki’s first sexual experience. Why was this event discussed in only a single chapter? Why did it have to be rape and not some healthier arrangement? And if others want to add to that too, I’m curious of those thoughts

We know that when Doumeki was younger, his parents stopped treating him like a child because of his inability to express emotions well and how much his body developed (ch.29). I think Yoneda-sensei wanted to point out the harm of treating a child like an adult when they are still growing. I drew a connection to the phenomenon of adultification, primarily affecting Black children but also applying to other ethnic minorities frequently. There are many negative effects, but among the worst is that some children who are deemed as “more mature” are more likely to be sexualized and potentially assaulted. I believe this is what happened to Doumeki.

Now that I think about it, has Doumeki ever himself thought of the experience with the nurse as rape, or those times in prison as SA*? He said in ch.5 that he has never told anyone else about his encounter with the nurse. Maybe he was ashamed of this sexual encounter, or maybe he was scared that others would judge or simply brush off his experience? Maybe he didn’t even realize he was a victim in that moment. We only have so much to work with, but I’m speculating that the blase portrayal and Doumeki’s (seemingly lack of) reaction to these moments could be interpreted as commentary in itself. These moments are so casual in society that even the survivors themselves don’t realize they have been subject to a crime. Normalization of these experiences is a foundation of rape culture.

The implications/effects of the nurse trauma are harder to see but I think it manifests in a few ways.

Doumeki was around 12-13 (first year of junior high in Japan) when he was exploited by an authority figure, so he may not have fully realized he was a victim. His inability to express emotions well when he was younger explains his general lack of expression, but that doesn’t explain his emotional numbness and feelings of emptiness that are very prevalent pre-timeskip. I believe these aspects are attributed to his trauma (concerning parental neglect, the nurse, and his feelings surrounding Aoi’s trauma). This numbness has actually improved seeing as how he’s expressing more emotion and starting to joke around more post-timeskip. His sense of purpose has also improved, and I don’t think it’s just about Yashiro anymore but also his dedication to the Sakura group.

The nurse incident may also show his early sexual curiosity (since he didn’t run away). It may have added to the huge sense of shame that he would develop for having those feelings later.

Actually I just realized that it was when Aoi entered junior high that she started developing feelings for Doumeki, and it’s when he started avoiding her. They are 5 years apart. Doumeki encountered the nurse when he was in junior high. This recontextualizes everything. The confusing and traumatic feelings Doumeki must have experienced from the nurse incident must have scarred him, making him deeply uncomfortable with Aoi’s new feelings. So it’s not just because she was his adopted sister that made him uncomfortable, but also because she may have reminded him of horrible feelings with the nurse. Now I think this is what makes him avoiding his sister for so long more tangible. He wanted to disconnect from that trauma, which unfortunately he affiliated with his sister. This disconnection from his trauma must have also contributed to his feelings of numbness and emptiness I mentioned earlier.

The nurse incident also highlighted his childhood loneliness. His parents didn’t treat him like a child for as long as they should have. He may have just wanted some attention from an adult…

It’s easy to see why Yashiro’s trauma is so heavily discussed (and it’s extremely important that it is): the effects of his trauma are so visceral to us. And it’s true that portrayals/explanations of how his trauma affects him are given significantly more “screentime” than Doumeki’s (Yashiro is the main character so it makes sense but; admittedly it’s still a bit of a critique). However, the effects of Doumeki’s trauma are also very complex and should be discussed as well. They are just harder to notice..

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I think we will see more of Doumeki’s perspective this arc. And soon. Yoneda-sensei loves hiding stuff from us only to reveal that info at just the right moments, and I think this is what’s happening here. Lots of things about him have changed without any real explanation; so far we can only speculate. E.g. his feelings regarding his father, his situation with his family, his relationship with Izumi (which is being teased heavily), etc

Mysteries all around

*= edit for clarification

[talk-danmei-to-me]

Continuing on with tonight's theme of theorising terrible shit Misumi has done, and trying to find hints in earlier chapters, it occurs to me that he visits soaplands. And you know a character who probably has ties to and knowledge of such establishments - Izumi.

Izumi and Doumeki clearly have some sort of scheme going on that Kamiya misinterprets as romantic. Now I'm very much team Doumeki is only in the Yakuza to a) prove to Yashiro he can handle it and b) remain present in the world he inhibits for the sole reason of meeting him again. But its implied that whatever he's got going on with Izumi puts her at risk. Spying on Misumi would certainly be risky business.

Doumeki can't control what Yashiro does, but he can control external forces that surround him. Now I'm not saying that Doumeki is observant enough to know all there is to know about Yashiro, since a major communication flaw they seem to have is Doumeki's willingness to take everything Yashiro says literally. However, I think after what happened with Aoi, he does have an innate need to save the people he cares about and maybe his relationship with Izumi is a part of that.

Also, the way things are going, we're gearing up for a death soon. Izumi strikes me as a character who would make excellent collateral damage.

[saezurubirds]

Doumeki has a higher pain tolerance than most people. He cuts off part of his pinky finger without doing any prep work, he runs to Yashiro's aide with a bullet in his leg, and he doesn't look fazed with Yashiro beat him up after seeing his tattoo. With hints that he may get hurt in later chapters, I'm worried that Doumeki will ignore his injuries and endangering his life.

[bhobbiel]

Thoughts about Chapter 57 Gentle vs Cruel. Interested in others' opinions (w respect)

chapter 57 has given me varied thoughts and has been the most confusing for me chapters. with rereads and reading other people's analysis I usually feel more clear but not this one. And I don't think I will for a while.

I have been reading analysis both here and other platforms. I read something where someone emphasized Doumeki not stopping being physical after Yashiro was feeling anxious with Doumeki's more (yashiro defined) gentle touches

And I think it is a sensitive subject but I keep thinking about it since reading that analysis. But know I am bringing this up with respect.

------

I think there's a lot of ways to read it (and can be a combination of things)

-Doumeki knew that gentle sex is what Yashiro wants. Him changing the sexual action each time Yashiro asked for a change/stop was a way to be sensitive and flexible with Yashiro's wants (both of gentle sex and of feeling anxiety) so Doumeki kept changing directions as a way to address both. And this was an act of care and in a way consensual/best course of action.

They were both off guard by Yashiro pushing way. So he changed course again with topping (with Yashiro facing away) as he requested earlier.

-That was unfair of Doumeki of contiuning (versus caring flexibility). There is cruelty even in gentleness when the person cannot handle it.

-Doumeki was just doing typical foreplay before topping and just flowing to Yashiro's request

-This kind of interaction is common for both Saezuru and the genre as whole- and should be seen through that lens

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The main opinion I have is that they both look very off guard from Yashiro's shove. Doumeki's then sternly relaxes to me and understanding but heavy expression. I don't think either of them are angry. They are a bit shocked.

IMO, Yashiro looks shocked and freaked out by of his own reaction and feelings. He feels very vulnerable and looks away from Doumeki. He almost seems dare I say embarrassed? Definitely vulnerable.

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Doumeki grabbing Yashiro's arm was interesting too- with the framing it was hard to read. Him reaching to touch Yashiro's shoulder or something would have been easier to read.

it was hard to read what he was trying to do- just touch yashiro to reconnect? pull him closer? be lightly forceful?

I wonder if it was mostly a foreshadow to him later gently putting Yashiro's arm around him later (I think it was)

*A big factor which affected my initial/ current feelings for chapter 57 is

Yashiro's last thoughts. He is internally taking some responsibility in the situation (I am saying he feels responsible I am not making an argument as a reader). Whether Doumeki is "cruel or gentle" Yashiro can't fully let him in regardless. He does not focus on Doumeki continuing having sex after he turns around. He doesn't fully focus on the "throwing up" comment. Yashiro focuses on two moments where it shows disconnect of how he reacts to both cruelty and gentleness. He sounds even disappointed himself. He wants to feel unstuck imo. Even though as a reader I think he has made a lot of distance in just this evening alone- he seems like he is experiencing feeling defeated.

Very different then what he would say in the past. ex:the car ride w Doumeki arguing after they have sex (before almost dying bc of Hirata). This feels like a very unique internal monologue- even though it repeats sentiments about changing.

Him even using the word gentleness stood out to me. Because I don't think cruel and gentle are the only options. But I understand for Yashiro it is.

It is also interesting that in the past Yashiro said "with that curse I am always looking for the old you" and then has that flashback of the old Doumeki kissing his legs before pushing him.

[ilovesaezuru]

Lately, I often wonder what could be the motivation behind Domeki's choice to get a tattoo. He admits that he doesn't expect a promotion, which leads me to insinuate that his intentions in staying in the Yakuza world are not long-term but in any case he is making such an important choice like having a tattoo! Why do it? For what purpose? I mean, Yashiro who has been part of this world almost all his life, has never wanted to get a tattoo why would Domeki do it when he admits that he wanted to stay in the Yakuza just so he could be close to Yashiro ? It may seem stupid what I'm about to say, but could it be that D has started to feel more comfortable in this world to the point of changing his mind and wanting to be part of it? Looking at D now, with his face full of scars, the tattoo on his back and his missing finger he looks like a real Yakuza. The more I think about it, the stronger the belief becomes that it will be truly difficult, if not almost impossible, for D to leave this world. It makes me think to a possible ending to the story that isn't exactly to everyone's liking.

[artemisrisen]

I’m a little concerned how doumeki is going to process yashiro’s impotence in the next chapters when he thinks back on all of their encounters. it’s not good: he was rough with yashiro, dismissive when the other man said no, continually used his physical strength to always have the advantage. he had his reasons to act like that beyond just being angry, but somehow I don’t think doumeki is the type to forgive his own temper and heartache when it comes to hurting someone he loves, no matter how much it felt like the only thing he could do at the time. he’s going to remember all of these actions, I think, much more intensely than realizing what this means about yashiro’s feelings for him. I’m afraid of his shame overtaking any romantic pursuit he wants to make.

having said that, I think doumeki withdrawing as the pursuer would be the biggest chance for yashiro to blossom, because yashiro would finally have to choose. he would finally have to act. and this would be what separates current yashiro from all the past versions of himself: that he would chase after someone he loves instead of tethering himself to the shadows.

[ilovesaezuru]

I think D is doing the only logical thing he could do. Given that his confession in the first narrative arc pushed Y to behave in a very extreme way, it is logical that this time he is trying the opposite. I don't think he has a clear strategy or plan to keep Y close. I agree that he is trying to do his best but that doesn't mean he has the right answer. Unfortunately, as always, the most important thing is missing: communication and without the truth I fully agree that they will never be able to understand each other.

Do you think Doumeki shouldn't be so insistent and cold towards Yashiro? Or is he, even if not quite, but still doing the right thing?

That is a question the saezuru fandom seems to be conflicted and split on. I know most of us are looking at Doumeki’s actions and behavior under a scope of how it makes Yashiro feel but I want to understand how Doumeki feels about it. He is pushing all his feelings down to act in a way that he thinks will keep Yashiro around for at least a little bit. It must be exhausting. It is often written off how Doumeki is feeling because well he is the one who is insistent on them being around each other but like I said in a previous post where I was asked why Doumeki insists on Yashiro, they’re both insistent on the other. I would say Doumeki is not as insistent as we make him out to be and has even tried to push Yashiro away which Yashiro took poorly. It is tough to say if Doumeki is acting correctly to ultimately end up with Yashiro because honestly I don’t feel like that is his goal. Him not wanting Yashiro to run away does not mean his end goal is for them to be together. Doumeki’s actions seem to be someone who is trying their best and I’m pretty sure we will start seeing Doumeki do some reckless shit as alluded to in ch 53 when he was going to run into a building, filled with people who want to hurt him, with no information and no weapons. Doumeki’s coldness and distance are defense mechanisms and honestly I wouldn’t say Yashiro is a wilting flower. Yashiro can stand up to Doumeki and has already done so. Yashiro’s misery is connected to the idea that Doumeki has moved on. If Doumeki were to go back to how he was in the first few chapters but was no longer in love with or wanted to be with Yashiro, Yashiro would still feel just as he is feeling now. In fact, Yashiro getting confirmation that he truly is unloveable and doesn’t deserve to be with the man he loves and will send him into a downward spiral he is not equipped to handle since he no longer has his coping mechanism. The truth is they will not be together until one of them is open and vulnerable. Their defense mechanisms hurt the other and they won’t be able to resolve anything while constantly hiding behind it as we have seen in this volume. We got everything we thought would resolve their problems (the biggest being the impotency reveal) and none of it worked.

[dragomfry]

Discussion on Doumeki’s Current Treatment of Yashiro

(And what it means for the story’s mature themes + Tangent on Romance and BL as genres and how I interpret Saezuru)

This continues the conversation from @nanayashi-agenda’s reply. Thank you for replying, you’ve given me lots to think about. It seems my views on Doumeki’s treatment of Yashiro are similar to yours. Speaking to all: I’m always open to hearing the diverse opinions of others and broadening my own views, so please, keep giving your honest thoughts on the story and what it means to you. I think it’s wonderful that we can interpret this story in a multitude of ways; it’s what makes the story so compelling to me.

Disclaimer: I’m going to be very harsh on Doumeki in this post. In no way am I trying to take away from anyone’s enjoyment of the story, and if you interpret it differently than me, that’s cool! I’m just giving my opinions in this post, and we can agree or disagree. Please, if you’re sensitive to a harsh look at Doumeki’s actions or your reading of the story is more idealistic, I kindly suggest you move past this post. But if you’re open to a critical reading of Doumeki’s actions, this post has a ton of thoughts that I hope are interesting.

Just to be clear, I believe he’s a very well-written character, and I still like him. But he is very flawed, just like other characters. Even though I understand his actions, I don’t believe they are the most moral. Basically, this post analyzes and aims to understand the complicated why and how of Doumeki’s actions, and I give my opinions on them while being as understanding as possible.

TW for themes of sexual violence and abuse

Full disclosure: I am of the opinion that the first time they *made love was non-consensual and almost every sexual act Doumeki has made on Yashiro after the timeskip has been dub-con at best… and rape at worst.

I mentioned this before, but I think Yoneda-sensei is the only writer that can make me acknowledge the apparent toxicity of the relationship yet still have me actively wanting the characters to get married. Never before have I encountered a romance that is hindered by such realistic, unavoidable barriers and misunderstandings that it makes complete sense for both partners to act and feel in the controversial ways they do; therefore, the drama never feels unnecessary or gratuitous for the sake of the audience. Based on my interpretation, the slow burn and controversial drama exists because anything else to advance their relationship would be antithetical to their characters. And all while we understand the complex reasons for their actions, it seems Yoneda-sensei never attempts to romanticize the toxic behaviors, either. If there are any other stories or authors that do this, I wouldn’t mind some recommendations…

Sorry for the slightly related tangent in the next 4 paragraphs within the lines. You can just skip those if you want to jump right away into the topic of discussion. My thoughts overwhelm me a lot, too…

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Ig there is quite a bit of context as to why I asked for your thoughts on this topic in the first place. This tangent is related to my general views about how I interpret Saezuru as a whole and what that means for this topic.

Let’s just say I was not all that interested in romance as a genre. I have nothing against romance (and I should probably read more of it to get a better idea on the genre as a whole), it’s just that I’ve always associated it with contemporary issues, not much conflict, and a predictable structure that typically ends happily with a stereotypically heterosexual couple getting together, which doesn’t interest me too much. Why read a romance when you already know how it ends? Rhetorical question, it’s the journey, but I like many of my journeys to have substantial bumps in it and at least some food for thought, yknow? Anyways, I didn’t think BL would interest me at all for a similar reason. Furthermore, I’ve heard many negative traits about the genre. That it romanticizes abuse, depicts gay people unrealistically, and is just gay porn with no substance. Also I heard rape was such a common backstory trope that it became banal… which is just awful to me, especially with how it mostly isn’t given the same sensitive treatment as I believe it is in Saezuru. Rape should never just be something to add to a story for worthless drama. With all this, it’s almost like BL would be anathema to me… until I found one that surprised me with its themes (which I’ll write a review for), and then found Saezuru. Saezuru is just different from the others (I sounded like Doumeki there, huh), and I believe it’s an anomaly in terms of the romance department and storytelling generally. I could quite literally talk about this series for hours and not get bored. Apologies, my blog is basically all those random thoughts… tl;dr: Saezuru seems to defy its genre conventions, critique them, or give a nuanced perspective on them, where others have failed to do so, which makes the story infinitely more interesting to me.

In terms of “ships,” I personally cannot ship anything unless there is substantial evidence in the canon to suggest the couple can exist realistically. Also, I try to look at characters as objectively as possible. I try to understand the characters for what they’re written as, not as my own interpretation or to reduce them to just a ship. This is why it’s so hard for me to read fan fiction. I can’t read or mentally accept stories of the characters when they don’t act like themselves.

So anyways, these views are why I can’t help but be critical of Doumeki’s actions and words towards Yashiro. I feel, in being able to view Doumeki as a sex offender and Yashiro as a victim, I can derive a more meaningful interpretation of Saezuru’s story and not have rose-tinted glasses when I pair the two together. I suppose we’ll have to see what Yoneda-sensei has in store for the ending to see if she really aligns with my interpretation of the story’s themes, but judging by how she’s managed to so delicately handle many of the controversial themes she presents (and how she clearly cares about her characters, how she handles rape, and how she wants to deliver a satisfying end to the story), I have reason to believe she could pull it off. I am cautiously optimistic.

Jeez I went overboard

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After having binged all of Saezuru from chapters 1-58 in like a week, my thoughts were going haywire. The main thought on my mind though, was this: Why was Doumeki treating Yashiro so callously when he loves him and treated him so gently beforehand? Turns out, this is quite the loaded question, so I broke it down into 3 parts below.

I stumbled upon this old interview and was even more confused when I considered this quote from Yoneda-sensei:

When I was thinking about whom I should pair Yashiro with, this is the kind of character that turned out.

Doumeki is a character originating from Yashiro.

It's like he started functioning because Yashiro existed.

…So the two are literally made for each other, but now Doumeki is sexually abusing Yashiro? How can that be his ideal partner? Why can’t he just let the poor guy sleep??

Well, I reason that it’s because of the super complicated tangle of emotions and effects of the upbringings of Doumeki and Yashiro that this is their situation in the story. I also think Yoneda-sensei is giving some concrete commentary on rape culture.

I believe that Doumeki’s actions are based on a large mix of what you said.

Here are the questions I’m tackling:

Why does Doumeki treat Yashiro that way?

Why won’t Doumeki abide by Yashiro’s requests to not have sex?

Why hasn’t Doumeki questioned the morality of his actions?

1.) Why does Doumeki treat Yashiro that way?

The conversation with Nanahara and Doumeki’s takeaways are still very mysterious, but it’s undeniable that it influenced his views and behaviors towards Yashiro now. Sidenote: did we get to see Doumeki’s reply to Nanahara at the end of the extra yet?

I agree with your statement here:

he thinks that "kind" and gentle treatment is what made yashiro leave. doumeki's main concern now is not letting him "run away" again. […] and by that logic, cruelty and sex are the best tool

Adding on, I think there are 2 main reasons in Doumeki’s head that he uses to justify the cruelty and sex: 1.) Doumeki does not want to hurt Yashiro again by treating him gently because Yashiro perceived that as rape (which is a belief I will tackle later), and 2.) he still believes Yashiro hasn’t changed because of Yashiro’s words and his sleeping with Inami/other men. The second reason in itself, oh my, is another entire post on how the misunderstandings in Saezuru are actually realistic and compelling and not stupid for the sake of relationship drama, but I digress.

Ch. 43 (top) and ch. 46

Because “Yashiro hasn’t changed,” he still thinks Yashiro doesn’t like serious relationships. He still thinks Yashiro will only have sex with men who are rough and don’t care about him (Inami, Kido) because that’s Yashiro’s coping mechanism. So, to not hurt Yashiro with gentleness, to prevent other men from hurting him, to be as close as possible to him, to keep him from running away, and to appeal to his coping mechanism, he uses cruelty and sex.

It’s very backwards. Hurting to prevent hurt... Similarly, being hurt to prevent hurt…

Doumeki and Yashiro’s fortes. These two are the best worst match, truly.

I didn’t even mention the slut-shaming, but I believe that lies in his jealousy, possessiveness, and hurt from being tossed away mostly.

2.) Why won’t Doumeki abide by Yashiro’s requests to not have sex?

doumeki assumes with confidence what yashiro wants and needs, and then acts on those assumptions.

Agree. It doesn’t matter what Yashiro says he wants Doumeki to do or not to do, Doumeki will act the way he does so he “helps” Yashiro realize what he “actually wants and needs” because he thinks Yashiro isn’t capable of that.

To Doumeki, he thinks Yashiro wants what he says he doesn’t want. I believe this is what he realized on the rooftop with Nana.

It always puzzled me why Doumeki didn’t take into consideration that time Yashiro told him he got raped by his stepfather in his realization of… something… after Nana told him this. In ch. 4 we are aware that Doumeki knows about how Yashiro’s stepfather raped him (“This man went through the same things as my sister”), so surely he should have considered that part of his past’s effect on his twisted perception of sex??

But now, I think my interpretation—that Doumeki is acting deliberately against what Yashiro says he doesn’t want because, on the rooftop, Doumeki concluded that that’s what Yashiro actually wants—makes sense as to why that scene isn’t considered here, when it really should have been.

Upon this false realization, he is willing to ignore Yashiro’s protests for the purpose of getting him to realize what it is he desires. He’s forcing him to admit his feelings for him, so that he can accept love. He isn’t wrong that Yashiro is in love with him and has trouble accepting Doumeki’s love and realizing his own feelings of love, but that doesn’t mean he can choose when Yashiro should accept these feelings. That is Yashiro’s choice to make.

My thoughts are the same as yours here:

there's the well-meaning read on this of course, about how doumeki simply wants to protect yashiro from "other men", make sure he doesn't seek them out by satisfying his, as always assumed, needs. and sure, i won't deny that protectiveness is part of it. i don't think it amounts to much, though. this isn't how you help someone you love. nanahara compared yashiro having sex with men to smoking, and he's right. here's the thing: forcibly taking away someone's cigarettes (or "cigarettes", you know), disregarding their personal autonomy, shaming them for their habit and making them feel like shit without addressing the underlying issues doesn't really accomplish much. yashiro starts smoking immediately after doumeki leaves in ch 57, and seeks out inami and kido "despite" his needs supposedly being satisfied for a reason after all

I also read his actions as him partly trying to protect Yashiro from other men by satisfying his sexual desires, but I don’t condone this at all. You can’t sexually abuse someone you love because you think others will. And yes it is very telling how even though Doumeki is there to take away his “cigarettes,” Yashiro still “smokes.” Even though Yashiro’s body seems to enjoy all their sexual encounters, his mind knows there’s something wrong. He knows he doesn’t want sex with Doumeki in these instances, and Doumeki should have respected that.

It’s important to point out how rape victims can still have their bodies “enjoy” the sex, but they really don’t.

We saw this theme at the very start of the story in volume 2… It’s when Yashiro gets raped by his stepfather. His body enjoyed it, but we clearly know it is NOT what he wanted. There was both blood and cum depicted in those panels for a reason… And these contradictory feelings—the crux of Yashiro’s character—cause rape victims to feel worthless and guilty when it was NEVER their fault. This is EXACTLY what Yashiro was feeling at the end of ch. 57. Doumeki needs to realize this…

What makes his actions so messy and you can argue morally gray is that there has been progress, in terms of getting Yashiro to realize things about himself. But I don’t condone his actions and argue Yashiro could definitely have realized these things without the sex. I’m sure that even if Doumeki didn’t make love with Yashiro the first time, Yashiro could still realize and eventually accept that he wanted gentle affection through non-sexual acts. In fact, he was starting to, with liking and eventually loving Doumeki when he was impotent in the first place. Yashiro is perfectly capable of realizing his true wants and needs. To think that he isn’t, is a huge flaw. To think that rape victims can’t figure out what they really want by themselves makes you infantilize them, ignore their voice, and grossly disregard their autonomy. But because Doumeki escalated to sex that first time, and now his discovery of Yashiro’s impotence with others proves to him that he did something that changed Yashiro, he keeps using this same method… believing it will cause him to change again.

This could also explain why he asks about when Yashiro became impotent in ch. 56. He wants to see if Yashiro’s impotence with other men was his doing, so he can prove that he means something to Yashiro and that his current method of using sex has caused Yashiro to change, so that his actions weren’t worthless and he can absolve his own guilt.

most of his actions after the time skip revolve not around trying to understand yashiro, but rather trying to get him to say or admit what doumeki has already assumed

Again, I agree. It’s as you said, Doumeki is self-centered and thinks he knows best, and I’ll address this flaw in my answer to the last and imo most important question.

3.) Why hasn’t Doumeki questioned the morality of his actions?

Surely his actions should remind him of his father in some fucked up way? And surely this would mean that he should realize that and stop treating Yashiro so horribly?

I believe his persistence with the way he currently treats Yashiro stems from, besides the reasons said above, this false belief that he has yet to properly confront: that it wasn’t his fault for Yashiro to consider the time they made love as rape, it was Yashiro’s fault because of his trauma. What he fails to understand is that he actually did rape Yashiro, and it was his fault.

This false belief stems from how he wants to absolve himself of guilt.

he struggles to understand other people's feelings, and sometimes doesn't seem to even consider them in the first place

Yes, it seems this character flaw has been evident ever since we first saw it with Aoi. Because he is self-centered, he can’t understand the feelings of others nor consider them, and he feels guilty when that lack of understanding results in those he loves getting hurt. He then blames himself. It’s an uncomfortably realistic flaw… It’s too hard for him to accept being the one at fault. What’s most important is how he tries to deflect this guilt from himself. With Aoi, he couldn’t understand her crush on him and ignored her, and when he found out what his father was doing, he blamed himself for ignoring her all those years and became impotent. As a result, he vowed to never be like his father to absolve his guilt. This way of absolving his guilt plays directly into how he views and treats Yashiro now.

With Yashiro, he wanted to express his love to him by having sex, but Yashiro never consented to it and was traumatized by both the non consensual aspect and the realization that he never liked cruel treatment to begin with. It broke Yashiro, and Doumeki felt horribly guilty for that. But Doumeki only considers the latter aspect and not the first. The first is too hard to accept for him. It would mean he is like his father, that all his efforts to prevent becoming like his father were for naught, that he is trash who’s barely worth living. But…

…after ch 25, after the damage is already done, but there is still hope for the answer to "am i like my father?" to be "no" (i hope i don't need to say what that question actually stands for, what doumeki actually asks in ch 32, and why it matters that yashiro takes note of it but doesn't answer one way or another).

You refer to this part of ch. 32?

I see what you mean, with not wanting to point out the question. Yes, what Doumeki implicitly asks here is the uncomfortable question, the question both of them already know the answer to. It’s the ugly truth.

“Did I rape you?”

“Yes.”

But Yashiro didn’t answer.

Both of them are willingly denying something here, and these are both of the things I believe they must accept in the end. They must accept these facts in order to truly heal and, if Yashiro wishes, develop a stable romantic relationship between them. Doumeki must come to terms with the fact that he is like his father in that way, and Yashiro must come to terms with the fact that he is a victim.

Even after these dark realizations that they can’t yet accept, this scene occurs…

They just can’t help but want the other.

God. They’re so fucked up…

———————————————————————————

In the end, I reallyyyyyy hope we see this side of Doumeki again. I really want him to wholeheartedly apologize in the end and make up for the wrong things he did. I really want him to forgive himself enough to start properly loving Yashiro. And when Doumeki accepts this, I want Yashiro to slap the shit out of him.

*When I refer to the time they made love, I mean chapter 24/25. I use this term rather than “have sex” because it was emotionally deeper than the more clinical approach Doumeki is taking now. This article explains why I chose the term “make love” and makes the distinction between making love and having sex, while also acknowledging the two terms’ changing connotations. I used the phrase “make love” to simplify the term “emotionally connected sex” and apply the positive connotation, without disregarding the non consensual aspect of the moment.

[swallowerofdharma]

The language of that fall from grace won’t get us home*

I really love manga as a visual language and its various possibilities of storytelling. Among the vocabulary that can be oh so cleverly used, there is the juxtaposition of images or scenes to show similarities or contrast between concepts in the arc of a single chapter. In chapter 2 Yashiro and Doumeki have the first serious talk between them. This time deflection is out of the question and Doumeki has to give up his background and family history, since his sister Aoi has been loitering outside of the office. Yashiro is surprised to learn that Doumeki was in the police and, even if he lost his job and served a prison sentence, his motives and actions were far from the common acts of violence committed by petty criminals who become yakuza. “There is one thing I want to ask you though. How did a former police officer end up in a place like this? Why didn’t you leave when you were told to work for me?” Yashiro asks. And the answer probably doesn’t make a lot of sense to Yashiro. Because Doumeki saw him and thought he was beautiful and a beautiful person in the yakuza meant that maybe it wouldn’t be so bad to get involved? Without beating around the bush, Yashiro asks directly if Doumeki is gay. Maybe he discovered it in prison? So here there are probably some nuances that need a little bit of attention and some flexibility. I don’t really know who is going to read my analysis but surely enjoying this manga are people from different backgrounds and cultural contexts. Are you gay? Is this character gay? What definitions are we using? Let’s be clear then first, this is just an attempt to analyze what Yashiro and Doumeki talk about, not general statements or definitions. So let’s stay in the text, with these characters and their particular experiences and thoughts and hang-ups and their critical vocabulary. After all shouldn’t understanding come before agreement or disagreement? So let’s suspend our beliefs for a moment while reading the chapter.

“Are you a homo? Did you learn the pleasures of anal while you were in prison?”

“I don’t think I’m homosexual. I never was. But since I can’t get it up right now, I can’t say for sure”.

First of all, for these men to define their sexuality the body seems like the place to look, physical responses are less vague than just thinking someone is attractive. Finding anal sex pleasurable or getting an erection, being able to perform, as in maintaining an erection, and reaching an orgasm, these are observable facts, these are things very basic and easy to understand. And even when this is putting it simply, the reasoning around defining sexual orientation for men comes back to the physical reality often in the common language, in the crass language and in practice. Having become impotent and never having experienced anal sex from the receiving end, from the body’s standpoint Doumeki can’t know more than two things: he wasn’t gay before, we will learn more later about his experiences with women, but he knows that he rejected sexual advances in prison or didn’t feel anything about the guy who gave him a blowjob, while with Yashiro something is different. Yashiro inquires further, after all a young man having an infatuation with an older man can be quite common, but often it’s just admiration and the desire for mentorship, guidance and recognition, rather then being something sexual in nature. If Doumeki can’t be sure because he doesn’t get hard, then maybe he can admit that he felt some form of repulsion towards Yashiro when he gave him a blowjob or when he had gay sex in front of him. I think this is the direction of the dialogue until Doumeki says something unexpected: “I’m not sure. I’ve never met anyone like you in my entire life so…”. Suddenly Yashiro is the one who deflects from the conversation, although he can’t help a gesture of affection for this man who doesn’t express disgust towards his behavior.

Little digression here, but following the logic of physical response and physical pleasure only, Yashiro saying that he is bisexual makes a lot of sense since he feels arousal and gets hard with women too, although he prefers the pleasure he gets from being on the receiving end with men. Matters of consent don’t seem to count in this reasoning, although Yashiro gets angry when Doumeki cosplaying as a cop says that if someone doesn’t object or is into it then that can’t be considered rape, at the beginning of chapter 4. I believe there is something inside Yashiro that knows how wrong that idea actually is, that sometimes you are unable to voice your dissent out loud or your body doesn’t fight it but instinctively retreats into what it learned from experience and worked before, even fabricating pleasure from pain. And that maybe physical responses aren’t reliable enough to make sense of our feelings. But there is another experience that Yashiro knows, and that is that his feelings for Kageyama are independent from what little physical touch passed between them, he knows and can say out loud that he fell in love with a man. That is confirmation enough that Yashiro is queer, something outside of the logic of physical pleasure, something that Yashiro still doesn’t find easier to accept than his sexual preferences and desires. On the contrary, Doumeki as he is at the moment, can only rely on his feelings, since his body is dormant, and those feelings become impossible to ignore or discard because they are calling him and awakening him, giving him hope and direction when he had felt like he had lost everything. So why did I start this analysis announcing a juxtaposition?

The rain keeps falling as we transition into another day when Aoi is back, this time under her own umbrella. Yashiro manages to get her in a caffè to talk alone, without Doumeki knowing, and even tells her about his own experience, because having someone else who knows what that’s like is more than just a generic expression of sympathy. Yashiro can’t help but be self deprecating and stating how different he actually is from her - we will learn how he convinced himself that rape is harder on women or that he somehow doesn’t deserve to be treated with any sort of care. But Aoi, although she is surprised, doesn’t judge him harder than she judges herself as well, for putting Doumeki and her family in an awful situation. Not a lot a pages, not a lot of words, but there are so many things being said or implied, so much complexity and an instant connection. When she confesses her feelings for her brother and she shows how confused and conflicted she is and she cries because her love was not only unrequited but also unnatural, since she is sure she would have loved him even if there was a blood relation, Yashiro recognizes the same type of pain he felt when he recognized his feelings for Kageyama. Stripped down to his own honest responses and after all his stepfather did to him, he still couldn’t help but love a man and one who rejected him. Love came to both Yashiro and Aoi regardless their impossible circumstances and felt wrong and painful and unacceptable to the ones they directed their feelings to. For a moment, we don’t know how long, Yashiro can only watch Aoi cry silently, while his cigarette turns into ashes. And looking out at the window, at the light coming through after the rain, he makes a decision, he won’t fire Doumeki unless he asks to leave himself. Notice how these types of decisions come and how things can change, how these characters are following their hopes or intuition until the next moment they are confronted with another decision to make, another circumstance, and how the storytelling is based on the characters’ little weaknesses and on serendipity, so much so that if we don’t pay enough attention we can miss these delicate threads. This is Yoneda-Sensei’s storytelling. And the composition of the chapter works around these images and these three people trying to make sense of falling in love in ways that defy common beliefs or expectations, ever their own. How they are getting caught in a love that feels distinct and not subject to some type of physical response or banal logic or law or rationale. How useless is fighting against it sometimes, or how love can feel like pain and feel like hope at the same time.

*frase is from a review written by Kevin Brazil about a book called An Apartment on Uranus by Paul B. Preciado and published in ArtReview on March 1st, 2020.

[childeth-of-le-moonlight]

hear me out… so like what if… and this is a very shallow thought compared to the amazing analyses ive been reading about all the expressions… BUT what if? this is yashiro realizing hes finally seeing doumekis face when he just wants to do it, like he had been hoping to see in the beginninggggggg chapters. no making love or satisfying his urges dutifully but just doing the deed as equals. idk i may be wrong, he may have mentally noted his face their previous times and im just forgetting…idk...brainfart

What is yashiro thinking here?? 🙄

Is he satisfied that doumeki is just doing sex. Or he wants more of confession from doumeki? or he got sad after hearing its just sex for him.

[ilovesaezuru]