#say you're supporting the actors all you want but you're still on the internet bullying the actor's fans

[iguessitsjustme]

Listen. Do I know it's a bad idea to go into the MDL comments? Yes. Do I do it anyway? Of course I do. I'm nosy. I want to see what disasters are happening in there.

[delightfullyquirkydoodles]

Okay, buckle up, friends and neighbours, because it's time for:

THE DOOPLISS DISSERTATION

(Obviously, you should take all of this with a HUGE chunk of salt, since I'm not only an internet-poisoned fandom blogger, but also a former English major with a penchant for over-reading.

Still, I spent a long time writing this, so I'd appreciate it if you gave it a read.)

So before we talk about Doopliss himself, I feel like we should talk about Creepy Steeple, since a lot of the topics I'm going to be touching on relate to the actual building.

Neither the original Gamecube version nor the Switch remake really bothers to explain what Creepy Steeple actually is.

None of Goombella's tattles say anything about the building's intended purpose. The name vaguely implies that it's a church of some kind -- in Japanese, it's called Odoron Jiin, or "Astonishing Temple" -- but that's still not very helpful.

Still, for the purposes of this analysis, I'm going to assume that it's meant to be a church.

This brings me to the Steeple's stained glass window, which shows a scary-looking Doopliss standing over some piranha plants.

From a design standpoint, I'm guessing that this detail was added to give the location a spooky vibe, but from an in-universe perspective, the implications are wild.

Like, who designed this? How long ago? And why? What the heck is it supposed to represent?

Unsurprisingly, the game offers no real answers, but I have a couple of theories.

The first is that the people of Twilight Town (or their ancestors, or something) created the window in Doopliss's honor.

Stained glass windows often depict saints or angels, so maybe the Twilighters used to worship him? Like, maybe Creepy Steeple was once dedicated to him and then, for whatever reason, the worshippers decided to leave?

It's not super likely, but I didn't want to rule out any possibilities. This is a weird freaking temple. Literally anything is possible, as far as I'm concerned.

My second theory is that Doopliss designed the window himself. He seems like a guy with a lot of spare time, so it's not too much of a stretch to say that he came up with the idea and then spent weeks building it by hand.

He could have also bullied the Boos into constructing it for him. I dunno. I just have this mental image of him pulling pranks on them and generally being a nuisance until they caved.

The bottom line is someone wanted to Doopliss's face to be front and center. And if that someone is Doopliss himself, then hoo boy, there is a lot to unpack here.

Maybe I'm projecting, but it feels like Doopliss is wrestling with some major self-esteem issues.

Despite being an incredibly powerful shapeshifter who somehow cursed an entire town, he seems very childish. He spends all his time watching TV and coming up with new jokes. He throws tantrums when he loses. He wears a party hat, of all things.

Based on that, I'd say that he's probably starved for attention. He's probably pretty lonely living in Creepy Steeple all by himself (doubly so if my theory about the Twilighters is correct).

I'd even go so far as to say that his scheme to turn the Twilighters into pigs is motivated by this need for attention. I mean, what better way to get people to notice you than to cause a town-wide panic?

I feel like the disguises he uses over the course of the main story also support this theory.

Though Mario, Zip Toad and Professor Frankly are quite different from one another, they all have one important thing in common: they're famous. Mario's a world-renowned adventurer, Zip Toad is a well-known actor and Frankly is a tenured professor whose students love him.

Doopliss even alludes to this after stealing Mario's body, telling him, "You're so popular around here! I just love being you!"

By transforming into beloved figures, Doopliss can get the attention he craves.

I also think that this is why he joined the Shadow Sirens. Sure, Beldam abuses him almost as badly as she abused Vivian, but at least she notices him. That's better than nothing.

The most conclusive piece of textual evidence is found in the epilogue. In her letter to Mario, Goombella explains that Doopliss has joined Flurrie on-stage in her production of "Paper Mario".

Obviously his shapeshifting abilities make the play a lot more realistic, but why would he bother participating in it at all? This guy was a villain for most of the game. Why would he suddenly decide to join up with one of his enemies?

Because, as far as I can tell, he's not a villain. Just a guy who's sick of being ignored.

I dunno. Doopliss's motivations have never been super clear, but I feel like there's more to him than meets the eye.

If you have any thoughts or ideas of your own, feel free to comment. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

[alittlefrenchtree]

As a black girl it's indescribable to explain the constant pain of seeing all this racism online, it's like a stab in the heart every time and it hurts just as much to always have to read things like "ignore, if you see hate it's because you choose to interact with hate, It's up to you"

no, unfortunately it doesn't depend on me and it doesn't depend on any of us poc, because it is everywhere and constant and racism is not just the insult with the slur but it is in the way they talk about us, in the way they choose to mock us for everything, in the way that we are never considered on the same level as other people and we cannot ignore it. It's painful and exhausting.

I hug you and wish you a good day.

That's why i tagged the post you're talking about with my reblog.

As shown in the tags, I wasn’t denying what you said. Racism and fandom hate are two very different things even if it sometimes overlaps.

A large part of the hate and/or drama that happens in the RWRB are just patterns that happen in every fandom, even the very white ones. Putting the two leads up against each other, comparing them, comparing acting skills, careers, saying one is sold to hollywood and/or the other is talentless, saying fans aren’t supportive enough of this or that, that fans should move on from this or that, hate and bullying happens in every. fandom. ever.

And many times, the hate and/or drama is amplified by people trying to fight it. How many times did you scroll your timeline seeing people complaining about hateful messages but seeing none of the actual hate message unless you really look deep for it?

The idea is not to compare that to racism but to say that that unlike racism, this could be ignored. You don’t go on in life stopping people in the street asking for their opinions about your favorite actor or movie or book and insult them if they disagree and no one is doing that to you either. So I think that what the original post was about. The Internet expose us to too many opinions we shouldn’t have to deal with on a daily basis. The best answer to that specifically is to ignore.

As for hate messages rooted in either racism, queerphobia or misogyny or something equally revolting, I still think there are specific situations when the best way to fight is to ignore.

Let’s say I receive a queerphobic message in my inbox. 

What could feel right is to answer "fuck you, stop being queerphobic". But even if I’m calling out a queerphobic behavior I’m still amplifying that message by sharing it. I would expose 1,700+ (or more (or less if you count the bots)) people to a queerphobic message while trying to fight against it. I probably wouldn’t have changed the mind of the person writing this in the first place but I made several (maybe hundreds) people feel insulted.

If I ignore the message and put it in the trash where it belongs, I made a total of 0 person feeling insulted. The queerphobia hasn’t been amplified, the message doesn’t exist anymore. That what the original post was about in my opinion. Sometimes, the choice is up to us however we deal with it.

Instead, I’m sharing other messages. Yours. The stories of many actors and actresses of color starting their own producing companies because Hollywood doesn’t give them the same opportunities. Matthew’s voice talking about the rating of queer movies. Taylor’s accomplishments. Casey’s successes. Whoever.

On Twitter, it’s different. More difficult. We know algorithms. If 100 people answer to (or QRT) a racist post saying it’s racist and stupid, the algorithm doesn’t think it’s stupid, it thinks it’s relevant because 100 people interacted with it. If moderation and report and ban were efficient, it would be easier but Elon thinks it’s fun and social medias want more interactions not less so they’re built that way. So saying we should leave this hell hole isn’t actually a bad advice.

Long story short, it’s complicated. Ignoring things is not saying it doesn’t matter or that it’s unimportant. My personal belief is that we achieve more with pushing voices we want to make powerful and heard than by trying to convince people online we actually don’t know and we might never interact again with.

But ultimately it isn’t an easy topic and it’s unfair for too many people. 

[nyxelestia]

Let me assure you, Nyx, that Hoechlin's comments on Sterek (I think you're mainly referring to his comment about Sterek being disrespectful), has by no means been forgotten, and absolutely not in one week lol! Just yesterday there was a long discussion on it between many of my mutual Stereks. The difference about Hoechlin and Posey's comments, though, is the spiteful nature of Posey's comments. He also hasn't tried to apologize or explain his comments, not even to save face, like Hoechlin. 1/2

There are many of us who are very disappointed in Hoechlin, and who are now side-eyeing him. I think there’s a truth to the saying that you don’t bite the hand that feeds you. Lastly, another difference between Hoechlin’s and Posey’s statements is that Hoechlin replied to a question to him, while Posey hijacked a question not directed at him to take out his frustration on fans. 2/2

and

Do you have any links where I can read up on how Sterek fans harassed Posey into calling Sterek fans bizarre, weird and twisted?

I’m pretty sure you are two separate people, but since my response is mostly the same, I’m lumping you into one post.

A slice of what Posey had been dealing with:

People literally not knowing that that his character is the main character of the show, or sometimes not even knowing he’s in it at all.

Panels and cons about Teen Wolf getting constantly derailed by Sterek. There have been bans on Sterek fanart, and Hoechlin avoiding signing Sterek fanart, as a result.

And as someone on Reddit point out (on a post about how Tyler Hoechlin finds Sterek to be disrespectful), the cast and crew may appreciate the publicity and support, but that doesn’t mean the sheer prevalence of the fandom ship doesn’t burn, given, “…it is slightly insulting to the cast and crew. They’re pouring their efforts into doing X, and all they get asked about is Y. Also…people are practically leering at these guys when they ask about it usually.”

Literally cutting Posey out of gifs and pictures to make it about Hobrien (aka RPF Sterek).

Calling for the show to kill off Tyler Posey and make someone else the main character.

It’s not just “shitty people being shitty on the Internet” - this has had ripple effects on cons that Posey has absolutely noticed.

And it’s not just racism - there’s misogyny, too!

Complete with tremendous victim-blaming of Allison.

We don’t see it as much now, but Allison hate was extremely widespread, back then. And this absolutely hit the actress - such as being asked, in a con, “Is Allison going to dress like a slut this season?” So it’s not just Posey watching himself get marginalized - it’s watching a friend of his get mistreated, too, and that’s on top of the overall show getting drowned in a fanon/crackship.

Also, the fact that people claim Posey insulted or slammed on Sterek fans is one of the ways people twist him into something he’s not in order to justify hating him.

Posey never called Sterek fans “bizarre or twisted”. He called the ship that, which sucks - it hurts when someone you like looks down on something you like.

But as so many other Sterek shippers themselves have pointed out, he already had a really shitty history with Sterek fans and fandom.

Given how often Sterek fandom has overtaken everything else about the show, I don’t blame him for overtaking this single question.

Quoting from another Sterek shipper on Poseygate:

“It’s like going up to an actor playing Hamlet each night after the performance and asking him what it’s like playing… Macbeth. Eventually, the guy playing Hamlet isn’t going to want to talk about Macbeth any more… and will get a little pissy when you continue to badger him about it.

When fans and the press focus on the Sterek phenomenon and ignore almost every other aspect of the show, you are not only ignoring the incredible fact that a young Latino is the lead in a popular television show, you are also ignoring the story that everyone who works on Teen Wolf is trying to tell you.”

His word choice was terrible, but Posey was speaking out not against fans of Sterek, but, “anyone who pays more attention to Sterek than the show”. As some of the aforelinked Redditors have pointed out,

“if you’re only watching for Sterek, there’s a 99 percent chance it won’t happen, and you’re missing the rest of the show.”

As another one said,

“It’s okay to watch Teen Wolf for inspiration for Sterek. It’s not okay to demand that the creators include it or to insist the actors discuss fanart/fanfiction about their characters when they are at an interview/panel expecting to discuss the show.”

Yet after “Posey gate”, people were saying Posey needs to get raped (by Hoechlin, no less).

All of this is accompanied by a long history of hatred of Scott - the main character of the show, and Posey’s character - that was largely perpetuated by Sterek fandom. Things like:

Claiming that the show is all about Stiles.

Injecting Sterek-derived Scott hate onto non-Sterek fanart (Sterek derived in that the language, argument, and intent are all derived of Sterek fandom), and saying that Scott needs to die.

People trying to remove Scott from his own story by claiming it’s really about Derek and that everything is from Stiles’ POV, and if he isn’t actually in the scene, we should just assume it was “told” to him and may never have actually happened (which conveniently means you get to ignore quite a bit of Scott’s storyline and development, as well as many of the other characters’ evil and villainy).

Erasing all of Scott’s (and Derek’s!) character development.

All on top of a long history of erasing Derek’s abusive behavior while calling Scott a rapist and victim-blaming him.

Calling Scott selfish for making tough decisions to save as many lives as possible in really shitty circumstances, such as falsely accusing someone he thought to be dead of murder to protect his peers (and then still trying to help Derek anyway, even when Stiles didn’t want to); blaming Scott for Gerard’s villainy and making a choice to save as many people as possible (especially while ignoring some of the Hale mens’ own actions), and erasing Scott scenes to paint him as putting Stiles and Derek in danger so he can spend time with his girlfriend.

And the rest of us can’t avoid it.

For all that people claim Scott-stans and non-Sterek fans go into Sterek tags to bully them, most Sterek fans seem to have no idea just how much Sterek infects other fandoms/the rest of fandom.

People will make non-Sterek fanart, and it still gets tagged as Sterek - even when the post is captioned with Scott, or when there’s some pretty clear disparities in skin tone.

They turned a picture of Stiles and Scott into a post about Sterek. And somehow a Scerek fanart became a Sterek post.

And we’re all supposed to be grateful because turning non-Sterek fanworks into Sterek and getting reblogged by Sterek fans will give it more notes.

Yes, there were crazy fans from all ships sending hate to all the actors, for a variety of reasons.

But, something a lot of people fail to realize is the sheer scale of the Sterek fandom compared to all the rest of Teen Wolf fandom combined. The numbers may have been even worse back then.

The last two paragraphs of that link, neatly summarize why I side-eye a lot of the claims that Sterek fans were unfairly bullied, especially by Scott fans, and my sentiments on the matter overall:

And this is just a sampling of some of what this fandom throws in Scott’s direction (and not even bringing in the shit and the fuckery that they throw at Tyler Posey). So, yeah. In conclusion: you are not a special and unique snowflake because you hate Scott McCall; you are falling in line with about 90% of the rest of the fandom on this count (at least). It is not hard to be a Scott McCall hater in this fandom just because a handful of vocal people call you on your shit when the reasons you give for hating Scott are hot problematic nonsense; most of your fellow fans agree with you and think you’re being unfairly bullied when people criticize you.

No one is saying that you are required to like Scott McCall—but when the majority of the fandom hates him, demeans him, demonizes him, belittles him, flings ableist and racist shit at him on a regular basis, mischaracterizes him in order to valorize their faves, and actively wishes death on him (usually so Stiles or Derek can become the star of the show), and when this behavior and these attitudes are not only common but actively encouraged and supported, with an undercurrent that suggests, “but why would anyone ever like Scott, I don’t like Scott so clearly no one else would ever like him either”? Then yes, people have a right to be pissed off.

In conclusion, as I’ve literally already said before:

If my understanding of a ship was predominantly made up of people erasing me from my own TV show, saying I deserved to be raped and murdered, and making the rest of my friends uncomfortable or harassing them in the process? “Bizarre and twisted” would be the nicest way to say what I think of them.

(In my case, it really is.)