#those red flags become understandable in light of your need for safety
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I also suspect this is why he ends up falling so hard for Tav in a romance run. He's spent the last two hundred years only needing to manipulate people for a night, because after that... well, they'll be dead. It's all completely temporary, so he can use the same lines over and over. Who's going to compare notes?
Tav is the first person he sets out to seduce as a long-term project, and his usual approach just doesn't work any more. So he tries other techniques, talking to them, getting to know them, seeing them as a unique individual who needs a unique approach... and accidentally forming a genuine attachment in the process.
He's never had a long-term project here! He's going in blind, and manages to snare himself!
There's one convo with Astarion that's one of my favorites that I haven't seen mentioned or discussed yet happens (I assume) if you have high approval with him but play a good-aligned character. (This is at 60+ approval, start of Act 2.) It's probably because it's not a romantic cutscene so it doesn't get mentioned as much as the others (or because he's racist in it and some of y'all don't like to acknowledge that he has character flaws), but I think it's vital to his character and to explain his early relationship with a good-aligned Tav.
I would like to break it down a little, step by step. Because we are all cringe here.
First, he claims to feel a connection between Tav and himself, and the reason for this is because he believes he's identified "ambition" in Tav (and I'll explain why he's wrong later, but that's mostly headcanon territory, so we'll ignore it for now).
But, there's also clearly something holding Tav back from realizing their full potential, which is their naivete.
"Just that you ... have a big heart. You like doing what's right."
(The animations and voice acting here make him look and sound so fucking condescending, 10/10.)
However, Astarion doesn't tell them this is wrong, or that he disagrees. He implies it's a flaw, but doesn't state it outright. That's dangerous territory, see, and might predispose them to get defensive and reject what he has to say next.
No, he tries (and fails in my case, but it's cute that he tries, bless him) to manipulate Tav by appealing to that big heart of theirs.
"So I was thinking, what would be the right thing to do when we get to Moonrise Towers? When we come face-to-face with whoever is controlling the parasites in our heads."
"I'm just saying there's an opportunity here. If we can control the tadpoles, we can keep ourselves safe and liberate the world from this evil."
See what he's doing? You like doing what's right, so what would be the right thing to do? We can keep ourselves safe. Liberate the world from evil.
It's very blatant, but he's trying to appeal to Tav's good nature by framing his questionable ideas as something that will benefit the greater good, something that's morally righteous that they would agree with.
And of course, it's incredibly funny when you ask how he thinks you'll do that, and he fumbles and admits he's not a "details person," but it's also revealing.
He thinks he's found in Tav ambition, when all he's actually found is ability. Tav exercises power proficiently, while Astarion does not. If he had the authority they have, he'd let ambition drive his actions, which is why he assumes that's what drives Tav when they exercise their power. A good-aligned Tav has very little ambition, I'd argue, but they have plenty of opportunity to exercise their power, which they do when their hand is forced.
So what Astarion is saying is, in effect, hey, you have power, I have ambition. Will you please use your authority/ability to do what I want? Here's how it'll totally be for the greater good, I prommy.
This is brilliant writing, and I really applaud Larian for managing to walk that fine line of making Astarion so sympathetic while he's literally trying to manipulate the player character. Because when I first got this convo, my thought was both "wow, I adore how blatant and terrible his manipulation attempts are, it's kind of endearing" and "he's so terrified, it's genuinely quite tragic."
If we control the tadpoles, we can keep ourselves safe. This works only somewhat as an appeal to good-aligned Tav, because it could also potentially sound very selfish, especially if Tav is the self-sacrificing sort. So notice how, when he says "liberate the world from evil", it sounds kinda tacked-on, an afterthought designed to bury his main goal, which is keep "ourselves" (i.e. himself) safe. Like, yes, this will keep us/me safe, but if you're not into that, then it'll totally help the world, too! It doesn't quite work, because he still sounds ironic and like he doesn't believe they'd be liberating anything from any evil (work that 10 Charisma, boy), but that's the intent, I think.
Does he want power for power's sake? Yes. Is he gleefully powerhungry? Absolutely. But he's also fucking terrified, and that slips through just a little bit, even behind the smug and confident facade.
He's trying to get Tav, whom he's seen exercise their power over others, to lend some of it to him, so that he may never fear anything ever again.
All of this from a short, smug convo where he admits he's too stupid to figure out how to fulfill his dreams of world domination.
God tier characterization, 10/10.
#anyway#i got this one and it was amazing#love how he managed to say tae has 'a big heart' with (derogatory) at the end#way i'm currently playing it is like#'okay you have some red flags the size of faerun#but you're also two hundred years of trauma stacked in a trenchcoat#and given how little freedom you've had over the years#those red flags become understandable in light of your need for safety#so let's see how green those flags you get if we give you genuine compassion#you absolute jerk (affectionate)'#baldur's gate 3#bg3 spoilers#the pale elf#moving image
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Dear Lumen,
I have a pattern of dating red flags like I feel like a bull I see a red flag and go charging towards it. All my last relationships have been toxic and I Gaslight myself into thinking they are "nice guys "and put my mental health on life support. Most of them were leeches to my finances and were living double split lives i.e pretending to be nice to me and blackmailing other girls for sexual favours.
Where as the whole time when I had a gut feeling that something is fishy he kept gaslighting me and telling me if there is no trust there is no relationship while cheating on me since the second day we started dating. He was a pathological liar and a serial cheater who even showed me a video of him getting intimate with other girls
For once I am with a kind gentleman who cares about me and my career and is really calming to my nervous system. He goes above and beyond to work towards my growth and happiness plus bonus he shows up for me which is a major green flag
and yet I get bored and can't stop thinking about my toxic exes and how they did me wrong
I want to break free from this pattern and stop letting the past have a chock hold on me and I want nothing more than my current relationship to last. Please advise 🙏❤️
Hi darling,
I'm sorry to hear you went through all those things. I highly recommend starting therapy, combined with your own journaling and introspection.
I believe the only way to fix or overcome our patterns is through self-awareness, forgiveness and self-acceptance. You have to review your childhood, your family dynamic, past traumas and inner wounds - they have all helped shaped who you are today. That includes your taste in men, why you're drawn to certain partners, why you tolerate certain red flags, why you have anxious attachment style, etc.
Personally, with the help of therapy and journaling, I came to understand a lot of my patterns and why I am the way I am. Through understanding ourselves, we can shine a light on all those cracks and dark shadows that we bury in denial or shame, afraid to let anyone see them. But it's by becoming aware of them, understanding ourselves, forgiving ourselves (and our family or other people that influenced us negatively), that's how you come to change your habits and patterns.
You begin to understand that you're anxiously attached because you have an abandonment wound. The same reason you find it hard to walk away from a toxic partner.
You begin to understand you're attracted to toxic men that mistreat you, because they in some way resemble your masculine caretaker, and that's what's "familiar" to your brain and nervous system. But just because that was your past, doesn't have to define your present or your future. You can break the pattern. You can choose better.
And the reason why you have this healthy relationship but find it "boring" is the same reason.... because it's unfamiliar, your nervous system and mind is unaccustomed to it. You're used to danger, to thrills, to feeling unsafe and being on an emotional rollercoaster! But please understand this reaction is normal, and you need to intentionally hold on to this healthy relationship and nurture and protect it. Don't expect it to feel like those toxic ones, because it never will - that's the point of it, your nervous system feels calm. Don't sabotage everything just because toxic is familiar. Let those toxic exes go, pray for it if you have to, release them, block them.
Don't carry them with you still. Give yourself the chance of happiness and peace and safety in the arms of a healthy relationship.
Much love,
-Lumen
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