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tuesdayisfordancing · 4 years ago

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A few loosely connected thoughts about ship wars, fandom purity culture, antis, etc. Apologies for the awkward attempt at nested bullets.

Almost everyone has natural selectivity where they remember bad things said about the stuff they like more than bad stuff said about stuff they don’t like, interpret it as harsher, etc.

Once you’ve received even one actual hate message, gotten harassed even one time, this bias to interpret someone mentioning that they dislike your fave as an ATTACK intensifies.

Ships and characters that get a lot of hate, that become Acceptable Targets(TM) are almost always also REALLY POPULAR - sometimes (often?) the most popular ship by numbers. I think, in combination with the fact that we all make judgements without full context (most people don’t actually publish the anon hate they get, and if you don’t follow someone you don’t necessarily know how they got harassed for X opinion a while back and Y seemingly innocuous comment is or seems like a renewal of that harrassment) this can lead to non shippers-of-the-thing-or-likers-of-the-character thinking that the shippers or stans just have a persecution complex. “Not everybody has to cater to you, I’m allowed to not like things, yeesh don’t take everything so personally” goes the thought. This overlooks how vastly unpleasant it is to be the Acceptable Target for nasty comments even if you have a lot of friends in the boat with you.

Something feeling like an ATTACK is not necessarily about the intensity with which dislike is expressed, but the WAY dislike is expressed. It can be hard to express why a particular statement felt like it stepped over a line, further giving the impression of overreaction.

> An example: the first time I saw the “Gay Ship for Gay People vs Gay Ship for Straight People” meme it fucked me up, and I’m still probably not going to do a great job of articulating all the reasons, but here goes:

> > First, the particular meme I saw was one where some people clearly meant it as friendly teasing, some people clearly didn’t, and others were somewhere in between. The cumulative effect was the sensation of my middle school bullies going “haha you’re a loser, just kidding, but not really, why aren’t you laughing about my funny joke about what a fucking loser you are?”

> > Fandom is overwhelmingly queer and the bits that ship same sex pairings more so. As far as I can tell there aren’t any “gay ships for straight people”. The ship I first saw this about you can tell is mostly queer with the briefest of glances around tumblr. It’s hard for me to express why this matters, when the inaccuracy isn’t the point - I think it would be a shitty meme even if a same sex ship did have a higher proportion of straight shippers than queer, but I do still feel like it matters that mostly they don’t.

> > A lot of queer people are insecure about their place in the queer community, either because of youth, past experience, not fitting the Awesome Queer image, general personality, whatever. Telling anybody they’re not really queer because of what they ship is a bad move, even if you meant it as friendly ribbing or contrariwise even if you can’t imagine how a queer person could enjoy that ship.

> > Man, imagine if I fucking switched it. Hell woulda rained down. So maybe it’s not such a joke?

> > Having been exposed to this meme in a few other fandoms and contexts now, it doesn’t explicitly say it, but it has strong connotations of the whole “queer things are more moral and more moral things are queer” attitude that... I don’t know if it’s actually more common than it used to be or more sincere than it used to be or what, but *gestures inarticulately* Bad! Increases shame in people whose well-being you care about!

> > It’s a meme making a direct claim about “the type of people who ship x” which is, in fact, in type if not intensity, an attack on the shippers rather than an expression of dislike of the ship. Even if it’s a technically neutral claim - first of all come on, it isn’t neutral around these parts, and actually I’m not sure there’s a second of all because I don’t think anyone makes these generalizations about actually neutral-in-fandom-spaces-attributes. And it’s perfectly set up to make you look dumb and oversensitive for getting defensive.

Okay, done with the example, sorry that took so long. Where the fuck was I. Oh right, onto: Tumblr Infrastructure Makes Things Worse, Verse 700. One of the ways people try to get along despite differences of opinion is delineation of spaces. Tumblr deliberately fucks with this (in order to provide other things, but still):

> Did you know you can no longer prevent your organizational tags from causing things to show up in the searchable tag by using 5 filler tags? So much for that. Plus even now there are people new to tumblr who don’t know about searchable tags.

> But even beyond that just posting something on your tumblr is more like shouting it into the crowd than it was on livejournal, because the main way people interact with your post is to reblog it. The nature of the tumblr post as something that travels makes the difference between shouting at fandom as a whole vs. shouting to your friends vs. shouting to yourself indistinct. ��May a bitch not be catty and judgmental on her own blog?!” asks the tumblr user. Well, it used to be good manners to keep the cattiest and most judgmental posts friends-locked but that isn’t an option anymore - and even the unlocked livejournal post offered a little more room for a difference between a post mostly for yourself and your friends vs a post directed AT fandom as a whole. If you were aiming your post outward you deliberately indicated that. Now people kinda... take their best guess based on Vibes? And of course everyone’s more likely to take it personally when it’s their fave and more likely to roll their eyes and say “people are allowed to dislike things on their own blog” when it’s something they dislike too and also more likely to take “X character is scum” as a neutral opinion statement if that’s the General Assessment vs. an inflammatory remark if it’s not and everything is a mess.

Pretty sure I had one more thing but meh this is long already and also if I don’t post it now I’ll start to overthink shit and never post it.

#fandom

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illusionlockarchive · 6 years ago

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pazam: a mess, truly a mess

so i usually dont do these kind of posts, i guess you could say its a call out of some sort? but i never liked that word, i prefer rather to just compile sources on WHY people would believe that a certain person is not truly as nice and understanding as they seem. consider this more of a psa post, detailing on whats going on with pazam on the sfm community, why so many people are against them.

So, a while back, tumblr user jymble made a post on the main tag stating that pazam was transphobic. they linked back to this post, which contains screenshots of pazam in a group chat stating that they do not feel comfortable with the idea of trans people. now, this did happen 9 months ago, true. however, for the record, pazam is already an adult, 24 years old, so they should have some tact. and as further and more recent events will show, they actually havent changed that much at all, at least not as they claim.

the screenshots should be in the post, but here is a transcript

[Screenshot one]

Pazam:

What????? Why?????

I literally HAVE NOT been doing ANYTHING malicious to them

And if it did I apologized

Yes I do have discomfort about them but I keep it to myself

Why are you doing this????

[End screenshot one]

‘Them’ here refers to trans people in general. Notice the defensive and victimizing stance they almost immediately take upon being confronted about their feelings on trans people.

[Screenshot two]

elliott:

of COURSE you dont

sammaku:

Like specifically

Elliott hush

Pazam:

This whole concept of transness and changing your gender physically

I hate to say it again but it weirds me out and it makes me question my own gender which flings me into anxiety, depression, and obsession

sammaku:

Its fine to not understand but are you willing to learn about it

Pazam:

I don’t want to talk about this anymore

sammaku:

That depression anxiety and obsession just comes with gender issues

(the rest of the text is cut off)

[End Screenshot two]

notice once summaku asks them if they would at least be willing to learn about it, pazam immediately deflects it by saying they dont want to talk about it anymore.

[Screenshot three]

Pazam:

Seriously??? That’s all it takes????

Wow I’m a moron

I’m sorry for all the trouble I’ve caused to you

@.aziraphale @.elliott @.sammaku

I just don’t get this stuff period

And I’ve gotten into trouble with this stuff before

I’ll probably never understand it for the rest of my life but I’ll try to be more tactful around y’all

Especially since you’re all young

And I’m like an adult

[End screenshot three]

While at first this would seem like they had finally learned their lesson and apologized, the things they add on after the @s become quickly worrying. Not only do they admit to ‘have gotten into trouble with this stuff before’, meaning they have probably shown their transphobia in other places and been called out, but they also stand firmly on the fact that they will never understand it or ‘get’ it.

And of course, as jymble points out, the implication that the people they were talking to were only acting like that because they were young.

A while after this post was made, Pazam had posted an apology, and went onto contact jymble asking for the post with the evidence of their transphobic to be taken down. The reason? They were afraid people would see it and think they were still transphobic and not give them a chance.

In this more recent post, you can see the conversation play out between Pazam and jymbles. Long story short, Pazam feels that it’s unfair that that post is still up after they apologized, and jymble of course said they would rather not take it down, people deserve to know what they did and take their own conclusions, even if that involves avoiding them. How does Pazam respond? By flat out deleting the apology post. I’d love to show the apology post to give you both sides of the story but I cannot anymore, because Pazam in a very bizarre move just deleted it because they got mad a trans blogger wouldn’t take down their post with proof.

Here’s the transcript of the screenshots:

[Begin Conversation]

rebloggidy (Pazam’s personal):

I’m by no means transphobia-free after learning what I’ve done but at least I know my actions and am making an effort to be a better person towards trans people.

rebloggidy:

Hi again. So I hate to be that person but would it be ok if you took down that post about the transphobia claims? I know it took me 9 months to apologize but if people only see your side of the story and not realize the post I saw they’ll take it out of context and still think I’m transphobic. Do you understand?

jymble:

... i already told you im not taking down the post.

[jymble sends a screenshot of her own message in a previous conversation, the screenshot reads as follows:

however, i dont think im taking the post down, nor am i entirely comfortable with you interacting with me either. people deserve to know how you acted with this stuff, until youre really and truly *better* with it instead of just trying, and i was a direct target of it]

jymble:

you oughright told me "im by no means transphobia-free", word for word sorry, but i told you before. im not taking the post down.

rebloggidy:

I remember that. But what I'm trying to say to you is that if people who read it out of context will immediately think I'm still transphobic without the other side of it (my comment)

And I don't want people to think that in the future

jymble:

if people make assumptions without looking at the entire situation, thats on them

i am not deleting the post and thats final. people have a right to know what youve done, and they have a right to be uncomfortable

rebloggidy:

I'm ready to take down my post because frankly, I'm sick and tired of having to justifiy something that I did 9 months ago, and that people grow and learn even not 100% during that time and I'm ready to move on.

I'm still into smile for me and feel free to make a blacklist of my name so anybody who rbs my work on your dash can have it hidden or something.

Take care.

[End conversation]

a lot to unpack here, but perhaps most notable is when jymble simply stands her ground and tells pazam she wont take down the post, pazam straight up decides, without being told to or anything, that they should take down their apology. later on, they made a post stating why they deleted the post, and saying they had ‘been forced to’.

I also would love to link it here, but as of now of writing this, like, not even an hour or so after I had seen that post, it got deleted. The only memory I have of it is a conversation I had with my boyfriend about Pazam, in which I copypasted a fragment from that post that read:

“ So for those wondering where the apology post went, I was forced to delete it. I wanted to archive it in some way so I could pull it up for reference, but there was no way I could. Also I didn’t really want to see it every time on my blog because quite honestly it’s upsetting to look at.”

There are some lies and twisting of truths here. Pazam wasn’t forced to delete it, they decided they should do it as a way to somehow get back at jymble. And the excuse that it was upsetting for them to look at is just inexcusable, what matters most, letting people know of what youve done and that youre sorry, or just never addressing the situation?

But, well, I’m just hoping you’ll take my word for it. As you see, Pazam has officially deleted ANY traces of acknowledging this situation on their blog.

This worries me. If Pazam is truly as concerned that they will be seen as transphobic as they claim, why are they deleting anything that could give them a chance of showing their own side of the story?

Now, that is the end, for now, of Pazam’s history with transphobia. However! It is not the end for some other very shady things.

Namely, Pazam has consistently whitewashed characters from Smile For Me, specially Kamal, and when called out on it, simply deletes the asks.

Want to know how I know this?

I sent them an ask myself. I had come across this picture of Boris and Kamal:

And I knew that this wasn’t right. I can understand using light colors and doing watercolor, but if they can make Boris’ hair brown and vivid enough, why not Kamal? He looks like another character completely, or like he’s deathly sick!

So I sent them an anonymous ask, perhaps a bit exhasperated, true, and my wording could be better. It went something like: “i am begging you to draw kamal with darker skin”.

I waited, checked. But nothing came of it. They never answered it.

Pazam flat out ignored when they were told they had drawn a canonically brown man with skin way too light. Not even a lone text post saying ‘hey anon, i dont agree with you’ or ‘hey anon im sorry it wont happen again’. Nothing. No word, no opinion.

And with this situation going on with them evading responsibility, I can’t say I’m fully surprised.

And, yet another thing. People had expressed concern over the fact they had drawn their Flower Kid, who is 17, in very intimate and close positions with Dr. Habit. It included nuzzling faces, cuddling in bed together, wearing his coat...

And they did hear the claims this time. As of now, their Flower Kid is 24, according to them.

Except... They do not look 24. At. All.

this is a 12 year old. at best. short body, stubby legs, big head. those are all attributes of a very young character, usually children. like, legitimately, thats how childrens anatomy is in real life. the younger the person, the bigger their head is in proportion to their body.

We have already had an adult trying to justify drawing their flower kid who barely looked like an adult if at all in intimate situations with Habit. Let’s not let it slide by again.

And yes, I’m aware Pazam claims that those pictures were not supposed to be interpreted as romantic, ‘only platonic fluff’ and that they intend to keep it that way, but I have talked to my boyfriend who is a survivor and he said it very well could be a case of someone just trying to cover their tracks.

BUT, all that being said, maybe this one particular instance could be just us being wary. Still, it does not diminish all that they have done, specially ignoring the whitewashing claims.

What you are going to do with this information, I do not know. Maybe you don’t care and will keep reblogging their content. Maybe you’re disgusted by them. But I’m just here to give you the facts. Personally though, I’m not willing to give them much of a chance after the way they’ve behaved. They are 24 years old, three years older than me, and I think I could do a better job of handling a situation like this, frankly.

#don't be scared. i am here with you.#smile for me #smile for me game

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migleefulmoments · 5 years ago

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1) On the "everyone all over reddit hates Darren" crap: I use reddit daily and decided to go on a little jaunt looking for these Darren hate posts, expecting to see a barrage of post upon post in multiple subs about how much everyone hates Darren (per how the anon made it sound). I found 3 posts and one was linking one of the first two. Whilst there were 3-4 people clearly on a Darren hate obsession, most people agreed that he said a handful of possibly questionable things way way in the past...

but not intrinsically problematic like Lea. It seems to predominantly be that a small handful of people over there hate him for whatever reason and are trying to incite others to adopt their skewed beliefs about him across a couple of posts. Both posts have 35 replies COLLECTIVELY. That's hardly "Darren hate all over reddit". I'll link the posts: reddit*com/r/glee/comments/gv0wfz/i_just_found_this_on_twitter_about_darren_criss/ and reddit*com/r/glee/comments/gv6271/darren_criss_dr

PS. As you can see in the reddit search for "Darren Criss" (and it should be mentioned his darrencriss sub has less than 400 members), there is hardly any Darren mentions in the grander scheme of things when you consider reddit has 330 million monthly active users, let alone Darren hate mentions. If Darren really was "problematic" there would be THOUSANDS of hate posts. Most posts related to Darren are simply promos for his projects and at least a month old: reddit*com/search/?q=darren%20criss

***********************************************

This is so interesting...the post in question is typical Darren-hater nonsense. It’s filled with hypercritical analysis of out-of-context quotes. Since most of the links are all broken, it’s impossible to even know if he actually said some of the statements they attribute to him or if he said exactly what they claim. Some of the stories I remember but they weren’t as Epic is presenting them.

EpicDC accuses Darren of sexism, misogyny, racism, ableism, elitism, transphobia, homophobia, effeminophobia, rape jokes, and cultural appropriation. Darren Criss? We know he can be crude and he LOVES a good potty-humor or sex joke/pun but accusing him of every toxic behavior possible is outrageous. You can read the post here (X)

This was written in 2015. It reads like a Blaine-hater who is delighted to take down Darren Criss because Blaine had the audacity of being a fan favorite who became a major character.

So much of the post is taken out of context. A lot of it has broken links so it takes a little more digging. For sure the original poster wanted everyone to follow their beliefs and a few Reddit users in the first link (X) are only too happy to hate Darren because of EpicDC’s post but the Reddit users in the second post (X) are more rational and see through the biased claims of the EpicDC.

You make a great point, Lea’s behavior was problematic for many years and impacted a lot of people. The number of people speaking out is overwhelming. and they all tell similair stories. Darren, on the other hand, is well-liked by people who work with him. We know this because journalists mention how nice he is and fellow performers post nice things about him on their social media. A one-off comment taken out of context shouldn’t label him a sexist, misogynist, racist, transphobic, homophobic, effeminophobic, rape joking, cultural appropriationist asshole.

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deveharrington · 7 years ago

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[5 new theories] + Ok anons, I will heed your advice and take a break. Thanks for all the responses, good and bad. I also apologize for my last theory. Consider some new theories in light of new info?

Before I fully relax, and I am typing this from the HMS DavidDuchovnyFrustration’s jacuzzi, let’s do some more mental gymnastics!

I always want to adjust my perspective in light of new info. So, following the release of the beach photos from August 19, I have some new thoughts.

Would it sound crazy for me to say that these pictures are actually making me doubt my own previous theories? Ok well everything I say probably comes across as crazy.

My imagination just outruns me, I love being proven wrong. I think I need it lmao.

So here are my most recent theories in response to the beach photos. 🐶 ⛱️

(Also, I will not post the actual photos because I simply refuse to and because I am a big baby)

💣 [THEORY 42] It means nothing.

I propose that, right now, he is in a state of (and a potentially dangerous level of?) apathy and neutrality. This neutral state of being is a bad combination with his already very laid-back nature.

He is going nowhere, and this could lead to frustration. And if David cannot face his feelings or be honest with himself, he may just seek “thrills” or instant gratification (a.k.a. this “relationship”) to balance the frustration. Thus, a vicious cycle is born.

Also, the stress of his career being stagnant right now might be causing him to seek comfort through instant gratification. He does not seem to be attempting to build things up for himself. I see no progress.

What if, in this, “relationship”, he literally does not give a shit?

*** OR, he had already been apathetic BEFORE the relationship, and the inception of the relationship was a product of that!!! ***

As in, SOMETHING may have happened to make David revert to “I don’t give a shit” mode. HMMM.

Onto the theory, David’s “laissez-faire” attitude has always been a prominent topic of interest to me, and most likely for the sole fact that I myself am the complete opposite. But live and let live. I guess i’ve always paid attention to it and now see it as related to this situation.

David has always been laid-back in the past. I think that is his true nature. But in the past he was also balanced by having a career, purpose, and engagement in life. Right now I see no career, nor purpose, nor engagement (and when I say “engagement”, I mean the action, not the term in the marriage sense).

It’s all “laissez-faire”, or, in his own words, “it can mean anything”. He may even be saying one thing to Monique but feeling another (more on this later).

I am really going to go ahead and quote Cowboy Bebop here, lmao:

If you love someone, you love yourself.

If you hate someone, you hate yourself.

I said, “I don’t feel anything towards anyone.”

Bull said, “That is the greatest misfortune on this earth.”

Ok, let’s try to be fair and not too dramatic right away. I’m not saying David has no feelings, for sure he has feelings for his family or loved ones. But could the apathy be the reason why he seems distant from them right now? Or perhaps them distancing themselves from him is CAUSING the apathy? Again, just propositions and not facts.

For David, the reality of the situation could be that he has convinced himself he has some semblance of “feelings” for Monique, however, of course I attribute these “feelings” to delusions or excuses for the obscene nature of the relationship.

In which case, it could be argued that, if David is telling himself he does have “feelings” for Monique, it could be a rationalization that he is so desperately wanting to force himself to believe in order to avoid the truth. The truth being that he himself was not strong enough to fight against this situation. He succumbed and maybe asks himself why. I hope he is asking himself why.

Now back to the neutrality stance.

💣 [THEORY 43] WHERE/WHAT IS HIS CAREER?

These are also things I have questioned:

- Him taking the cancellation of his movie in stride. Maybe I am just overlooking the complexities of the movie making process and downplaying how hard it is to actually get a movie made. But David has all the time, means and reason to do so. I just don’t see David as the kind of guy to accept obstacles, especially when it concerns his passion projects. So, is there something more to this?

- David seems to not be aware that his own fans have not received their CD’s. Again, I don’t have all the facts. But what is this? And again, David has all the time and reason to pay attention to his music career but he doesn't?

- Also, is he working on an album (or anything?) for the future? Maybe he actually is? lmao, I have no idea? What i’m saying is, where is the progress? Where is the drive?

It is like he is just wandering around, an aimless, organic vagabond.

But I really love to listen to David talk about his music. I see his music as a genuine artistic expression coming from him. As an artist and art lover myself, I feel one the best things about art is that is reveals who you truly are.

I think I may make a separate post about this to elaborate, what I’m saying basically is that I feel what he says about his music and music making process are genuine feelings coming from him. It is not just what he says but the way he says these things, it reveals a lot about him, and the reveal is positive. I see a genuine vulnerability. Otherwise, sometimes his statements can come across as loaded with unspoken messages or intentions.

So here are some quotes from David himself on his music making process. I use them because I see them as genuine expressions coming from him. They are not recent, I just am showing them to illustrate the foundations of his laid-back attitude.

- “Why not?” - As an explanation of why he became a musician. Could he also have just said, “why not?” not his “relationship” with Monique? And, when the times comes for him to want to break up (and it WILL happen, right God? RIGHT?), will he also hopefully say, “why not?” ?

- “I don’t like having things explained to me.” - Like social media? hehehe. Like Monique’s social media posts? hehehe. Like how Brad Davidson is scamming your fans? hehehe.

- “I didn’t want it to feel like work at all.”

- * “It can mean anything for anyone” - What if David is being so liberal that he is giving both Monique and HIMSELF the freedom to have their own reasons for their relationship? And if this were the case, then it is not much of a “RELATIONship”, now is it?

I said in the first thesis that he deliberately keeps his beliefs vague so that he doesn’t have to take full responsibility for his choices, reasons and actions. As in, if he keeps his intentions open enough, he can displace blame onto others if things go wrong.

For example, he may dole out some high-minded poo poo on the age gap along these lines: “age is arbitrary and has no meaning. The spirit is what connects” etc. Implying that somehow, SOCIETY and their ~ lack of enlightenment ~ would be what’s really to blame for their animosity towards an age gap relationship. This is all just for the illusion of openness. An illusion to disguise the lack of desire to take responsibility.

If David wants to say that what he does can mean anything to anyone, then I want say this relationship means nothing to everyone.

This theory could easily be challenged by the notion that, if David were really in this neutral state, then he may try to assuage himself by seeking thrills. So, could the age gap component of the relationship be seen as a potential thrill for him? (UGH, sorry). And I guess I can’t ignore the physical component of the relationship, which not only appeals to his ego but must of course remind him of his younger, more reckless self (I am really sorry). To me, it connects, but others may see it differently.

💣 [THEORY 44] *** I propose a single massive difference between Gillovny and Davinique. And to be fair to David, this is not fully in his control:

Gillian could not bring herself to trust David completely (due to his reputation and her own insecurities), but Monique trusts him completely.

And maybe Monique trusted him completely from the start? Maybe it is as simple as she may not be fully informed of his reputation? Is she just really enamoured? Or is she simply not old or experienced enough to see a person as a complex being with flaws. Maybe David is lying to her about his flaws. He lies to himself about his flaws 😇.

(Thank you to a user, who wishes for their identity to remain private, that proposed this amazing theory to me. I love getting ideas like this that I would never have come up with myself.)

Could it all be as simple as a personality difference between Gillian and Monique? I always saw one conflict between Gillian and David being her excessive worrying/insecurity clashing with his excessive laidbackness/cockiness.

So, if Monique is more in line with David’s attitude, then he may feel relieved that this conflict that was so prominent between him and Gillian is taken care of.

But that is not really my focus with this theory.

This theory at least clears a lot of smoke for me. Part of the pain of this situation was, for me, imagining David hurting Gillian very badly (when she was already potentially very insecure about their relationship) over some nonsense “relationship” with Monique, but what if it really, truly, and literally, Monique means nothing to David. However, this would imply that David was the one to betray Gillian first by getting involved with Monique and I actually do not believe this was the case.

On that subject, the next theory will explain:

💣 [THEORY 45] Who, between David and Gillian, performed the fatal action that was Gillovny’s undoing?

Could the final blow actually have been enacted by Gillian? and... intentionally??

I know the common theory is that this is all David’s fault. But what if Gillian dumped David or pushed him away prematurely out of her own suspicions and misconceptions that stemmed from her insecurity of being involved with him?

💣 [THEORY 46] Davinique in the wild?

Could David’s “relationship” actually have most of it’s meaning in Monique’s head, and not David’s? (contrary to what I proposed in the first thesis.)

I propose this because, looking at the beach pictures, David is not paying attention to Monique.

I know they are just pictures, a single fraction of a single second in time. And I am probably just seeing what I want to see.

But I was not expecting that level of non-acknowledgment between them? Did they know they were being photographed? (Personally, I don’t think they knew because neither of them, especially Monique, is looking into the camera. Nobody from the group seems to notice the camera either). So, if they were not aware they were being photographed, do we finally have evidence of Davinique in the wild?

I just really want to believe this for now. I was expecting to be hurt by the pics but noticing these small subtleties actually made me feel better.

[Some random thoughts on the beach pictures]

- This is an objective observation: good for Monique for being in shape, but the fact that she has a masculine body frame (square torso) that is also quite built up is not helping me deny my theory that David is enjoying having sex with himself. (i’M SORRY!!!)

- I just couldn’t contain myself at seeing an image I see very commonly at my local lake: a group is separated in two, with the adults on supervision in the back, fully clothed, wearing hats, sitting in lawn chairs and talking amongst themselves. Meanwhile the kids are sprawled out, enjoying the sun, and playing with the dog. ooooh boy David what is this shit lmfao.

Thank you, anyone who reads this!

#David Duchovny #Monique Pendleberry #Davinique organic acid fever dream

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lie-where-i-land · 3 years ago

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[this is no longer the most up to date version of this reblog, see here for the current version]

I am most concerned with how people defend terfs in fandom as “good people with a simple difference of opinion.” However, this whole conversation started because of one individual (venwe/suyao-supremacy). I’m in a bad position where the proof of venwe being a radfem was deleted when her blog was terminated. However, I did some digging among trans tolkien fans and found a post from March 6th 2021 where a user shared their concerns about venwe. This is long before the russian invasion of ukraine and should at least prove that fandom skepticism about venwe’s intentions are not based in russophobia as @cycas seems to claim. It’s screenshotted so I can blot out the user (another trans man, who has been harassed by radfems severely in the past).

Image Description: A text post from a tumblr user that reads “It has come to my attention that a Tolkien/The Silmarillion blog that reposted my ableism in COH post is a known TERF and SWERF and as a trans person I’m baffled cause a) I literally have the trans flag as the background for my PFP b) I have my pronouns on my bio and c) I have the 🏳️‍⚧️ emoji on my bio too like... okayyy. Anyways, I have blocked them and will be deleting my reblog to their response.I thought about making a call out post but then I remembered how I got harassed by TERFs for years on this hellsite so um. This is kind of a callout post, kind of not? If you want to block that blog if you’re a trans person and/or a trans ally check out the link I posted, and feel free to DM me if you want some evidence. The trans person that let me know showed me some but again, I don’t fancy getting harassed by TERFs on this fine evening so uh. Not gonna do that cause um. Yeah I just got my first anon hate on my personal blog and I’d rather not get back to the old times of getting mass anon hate and cyberbullying by TERFs and transphobes.This should also go to say that if you’re a TERF and/or a transphobe as a trans person I don’t want you near my blog. I know this is a fandom blog, but I don’t care. That didn’t stop TERFs and transphobes from sending death threats and calling me slurs on my fandom blog two years ago, so uh, just, if you’re a TERF, transphobe, or bigot of any other kind, (gif of gandalf saying ‘you shall not pass’)” (end image description)

The links go to venwe’s deleted blog but the post about ableism in the Children of Hurin (from January 15, 2021) can be found in a three-part set of screenshots that I have located, which venwe had indeed commented on like the op said. See below:

Image Description: A set of three screenshots date January 15th 2021, by the same author that wrote the later March 6th 2021 post about Venwe. The first two images are of the op’s meta on ableism in tolkien’s work the Children of Hurin, specifically regarding Brandir and Turin and ableism about physical deformities. The third shows venwe’s reply to the op, which reads “well, since we’re talking about coh, i think it’d be fitting to mention gwindor as well. now, i haven’t reread the book in a while, so i don’t remember if his falling from grace is attributed to him 1) being disabled, 2) managing to escape thralldom (it’s already established that the elves were wary of ex-thralls), or 3) openly opposing turin BUT i’m pretty sure that, at the very least, he at some point mentions his disability as one of the reasons why he thinks himself unfit to be finduilas’s betrothed anymore.(if anyone has the text at hand, please feel free to back me up or correct me)and what’s interesting about this particular case is that it’s coming from the elven perspective, and elves are, in general, supposed to know better (it’s stated in the lace that they have no strict gender roles, for instance, with both men and women being free to engage in whatever activities they like). which brings forth the question of where exactly this elven ableism comes from. did the valar teach them so? did they come up with it independently over the course of the war, where strong-bodied warriors were deemed more “valuable” and fit to lead than the disabled?or maybe they’re just assholes, that’s also an option.” (end image description)

I’m sorry for not transcribing the whole post about ableism, but it’s very long and the detailed content is not at all related to the body of my post. I only included it to establish that venwe had indeed interacted on the post the op specified, in the manner that op specified. I would have just included the links for you but I didn’t want to open the op up to any renewed harassment.

I feel like the nature of posts like this are actually a good thing to talk about. There was no terf rhetoric in venwe’s reply to the children of hurin post. Nothing would clue you into it from seeing her casual interactions with people on here. Then posts like the one I referenced blow up, get a lot of traction, and new followers come to the blogs involved. When that blog is run by a terf, this increases the pool of people they can begin introducing to radfem rhetoric.

This is what we mean when we say doing something as simple as boosting a radfem blog, or reblogging ordinary posts from them, draws more followers to radfem bloggers. This not only increases the ideological sway they can exert over a group but opens the queer and trans folks in the wider circle to radfem attacks by simple visibility.

@cycas @warrioreowynofrohan my dms are open if you want to chat. If you have any questions about radfem ideology, common terf talking points and modes of recruitment, and common tools the trans community uses to deplatform radfems and other bigots, please reach out. I am hoping this was a case of being well-intentioned but misinformed.

Silmarillion Fandom Transphobia

Hi, I’m @lie-where-i-land (James, 20s, gay trans man). I’ve been thinking a lot recently about transphobia and trans allies in fandom spaces, and how people may pay us trans folks lip service but at the end of the day do little to support us. Yesterday was the final straw to break my back, shall we say.

A while ago, it came to the attention of multiple trans tolkien bloggers that one semi-prominent user was a radfem. Most of us blocked and moved on. It appears that this user’s original blog, @venwe, was terminated by staff, as they reappeared under a different url (suyao-supremacy) with a promotional post asking other big name silm bloggers to boost and help them regain their mutuals. I sent the following anon ask to @cycas, who had boosted the original promotional post.

Image Description: An anonymous tumblr ask to user Cycas that reads “Venwe (now suyao-supremacy) has been following and interacting with terfs for years. Their original blog was terminated but when it was around it was very easy to find receipts. The following list contained multiple terfs blogs and they posted some transphobic stuff in an argument a while back. Them trying to minimize it or brush it under the rug like “I don’t Hate trans people, I just think there’s an undeniable and dangerous difference between cis and trans women aha” is not cute. I have no receipts to send you because I don’t push callouts or cache dirt on people, but I am trans, and more than one trans friend of mine in this fandom has expressed concern over this user and their transphobic behavior, which seems to lie dormant for a while before cropping back up again (which is likely intentional as it allows them to fly under the radar).” (end image description)

@cycas responded below to me like this:

Image description: First half of a text response by Cycas to the anon ask, which reads “Ok, look I’m going to answer this one publicly and, I hope, this will be an end to it even if the anons block me. Tolkien fandom is an international, multilingual, and multicultural space. Sometimes there are going to be people with different ideas, sometimes ideas that are odd, difficult, jarring, or unpleasant. You can’t assume people will be coming to stuff with the same background as you. I do not, on the whole, curate my tumblr feed to only people with whom I agree. That would take it down to a very small group and I don’t know how I would even begin to do that. I definitely don’t want to curate my tumblr feed according to the opinions of people who send me anon messages about who I should block.” (end image description)

Image description: the second and last half of Cycas’ response, which reads “Venwe is not a celebrity with a huge influential following, and as such I don’t think should be the subject of campaigning of this kind. Block her if you don’t like her - I’d block anyone who upsets you, whether or not you actually interact with them or just saw them in passing - but please don’t tell me who I should interact with. I am old enough that I can remember when being able to chat with a Russian woman about things we agree or disagree about was impossible. I can remember the first Russian fans coming to the UK to talk about how they had discovered Tolkien, and what an absolutely amazing moment that was, way back in the early 90s, that we were all able to share these books. And now the peace we all hoped for so desperately is over and I don’t know where to begin about that. I’m betting you are young enough that you don’t know what you are asking me when you say ‘stop talking to a Russian woman because I think that they say the wrong things.’ I’m not dismissing your concerns (of the Ukraine war) and nor so far as I can see is Venwe). And I’m sorry to hurt your feelings, but I’m not going to do what you say on this one.” (end image description)

@cycas tagged the post saying any further conversation needed to be done off anon. I was incredibly hesitant about this because I feared onlookers would put transphobic stuff in my inbox, but the response above was such a bad faith interpretation of what I’d actually written that I felt the need to clear the air. So, I reblogged the post with my addition below:

Image Description: A text reblog (part one of four) from lie-where-i-land, which reads “To be very clear, I’m not dressing some weird Russophobia up in some pro-trans trappings. I am a trans man. As I said before, I have had venwe blocked for over a year now for their overt following of radfems (inside and outside the Tolkien fandom) and some unsavory transphobic debate on their blog. I do not stalk blogs that I have blocked because I find that sort of internet behavior troublesome, unethical, and harmful to my mental health. Any comments that they have made regarding the Russian invasion of Ukraine, I have not heard. Firstly, I have them blocked, and secondly, staff torpedoed their blog so I couldn’t find the comments even if I wanted to.I am wondering if you have received messages from more than just me? Because I did not mention venwes nationality in this message or the follow up that I sent. I can see why you thought I might be motivated by venwe being Russian, but I couldn’t help but feel that you read something into this that I didn’t say, put words in my mouth, and spun this as me trying to isolate and alienate random Russians online. It makes you seem like the charitable and good hearted fandom participant, and me like some sort of miserly buzzkill.” (end image description)

Image Description: A text reblog (part two of four) from lie-where-i-land, which reads “I think we both know that this is not a case of “don’t talk to this Russian lady bc Russian cooties.” I think you’re right in saying that part of what makes the Tolkien fandom great is the depth and international breadth of its roots. My mutuals and I are from every corner of the globe, and I think that makes our friendship better not worse. And no, i don’t agree with them on everything (concerning Tolkien or offline matters). I find that maintaining a friendship with someone from a wildly different background mostly comes down to open mindedness, willingness to listen, taking things with good faith, and asking clarifying questions. As such, when my international friends have challenged my views or beliefs, we’ve managed to remain friends.” (end image description)

Image Description: A text reblog (part three of four) from lie-where-i-land, which reads “Posting transphobic rhetoric, following radfems, and being part of a circle of transphobes that operate within the tolkien fandom is not “having a difference of opinion.” I don’t need someone to have the same background as me, or to be knowledgeable in the same way I am knowledgeable. My grandmother is old, transphobic in the way much of her generation is, and her opinions like “[she] doesn’t care who uses the ladies’ room as long as no one pisses on the floor” are not PC. Her fumbling attempts at progress are done in better faith than the people on here that try to draw borders to distinguish perpetual man and perpetual woman, perpetual patriarch and perpetual victim, as if trans people are (depending on what is rhetorically suitable) dangerous invaders in need of purging or misguided mental degenerates in need of salvation.” (end image description)

Image Description: A text reblog (part four of four) from lie-where-i-land, which reads “I don’t comb through the blog of everyone that interacts with me on the off chance they might be “problematique.” I dont expect that level of effort from anyone. At best, I give new followers a cursory glance to their bio and top three posts. However, I think it is pretty reasonable that I don’t follow terfs or reblog from radfems in the fandom because “it’s not a post about radfeminism.” This is a pretty standard rule of thumb followed by every trans person I know. Why? You’re right, venwe is not a big platform influencer. But I am a trans man. I post something, an ally reblogs it, their follower is a somewhat stealthy terf and reblogs it, their followers are terfs and now I have terfs in my inbox. The silm fandom is small enough as it is. Terfs find blogs like mine in large part because “allies” overlook radfem rhetoric as a difference of opinion.This fandom is either friendly to trans people or it’s friendly to terfs. If it’s friendly to both, then don’t be surprised if your circle ends up just being terfs, because trans people won’t stick around for long like this. No, i don’t need to follow you, or boost your content. Please then, do trans people the courtesy of not reblogging our content if you’re hiding terfs in your coattails.” (end image description)

@cycas did not reblog my addition, either to not draw more attention to their words or to avoid attention specifically to my rebuttal. Instead Cycas replied in the comments, which you can see below:

Image Description: A reply in the notes of the original post, by cycas to lie-where-i-land, which reads “I assume the account was removed because it had a Russian IP and was posting about Ukraine. I very much sympathize with your position, but to me it seems that being a progressive Russian lesbian wondering whether to risk imprisonment and worse at a demo isn’t easy either. I shared the post because I was asked to do so, and I don’t really think that counts as putting anyone at risk, except possibly for venwe.” (end image description)

So there was no acknowledgement from cycas that they had been and continued to be (as visible from their following lists - though venwe/suyao-supremacy’s has now been hastily privated) mutuals with a terf. They continue to run with the false claim that this is beef because of the russian invasion. And they double down on how the only one at risk here is venwe, not any of the trans tolkien fans that they are now introducing to a terf’s blog through a promotional post. I screenshotted the reply and attached it to a second reblog which is below:

Image Description: A text reblog (part one of two) by lie-where-i-land that reads “Cycas, again, I have no knowledge of venwe’s stance on the current invasion of Ukraine. I find it somewhat unlikely that her blog was terminated for having a Russian IP when there are other Russian silm bloggers currently living in Russia that are currently active. On the other hand, lots of people have know about her being a radfem for a year now, and while I dislike speculation, that was my initial suspicion for the termination of her blog. I sympathize with anyone who is caught between wanting to demonstrate against imperialism and the knowledge that they may be in grave danger if they do so. My initial message, and my reply above, had nothing to do with venwes nationality. I am sort of frustrated at this implicit “I see how trans ppl are a target, but consider that being a Russian lesbian is dangerous too… so.” It’s possible to be marginalized and still do harm to other marginalized people.” (end image description)

Image Description: A text reblog (part two of two) by lie-where-i-land that reads “When I talk about harm: I’m not saying you knowingly promoted a radfem because you’re in cahoots or something. But you didn’t ask for proof, you didn’t ask if any of your other followers had seen venwe’s radfem rhetoric, you immediately assumed the worst faith position possible. boosting the new traction post from a terminated radfem helps that radfem gain back their follower base. It’s handing someone the keys to your metaphorical house. The more people that give radfems the fandom house keys, the more visible and vulnerable trans tolkien bloggers are. I don’t Want to post about my life or my trans tolkien content for my followers to reblog when I know there are cryptoterfs that are mutuals with some of you, terfs who will be reading about my personal life, climbing into my inbox, making me and my friends feel unsafe and unwelcome. Now, terfs are perfectly capable of combing trans tags for my blog. But being mutuals with them hands them a list of queer and trans bloggers, wrapped with a pretty bow.Either this fandom is safe for trans people or it’s safe for terfs.” (end image description)

I am at this point past my image limit, but I wanted to share some words from @warrioreowynofrohan, who commented in support of cycas on the initial post. The screenshot and my reply are available here for proof.

Warrioreowynofrohan: thumbs up emoji. the new attitude of you should never communicate with or even read anything said by anyone who disagrees with you on anything of substance is deeply destructive and harmful. If people want to curate their own social media experience selectively, that’s their own choice; but they have no right to demand/pressure that everyone else do the same.

my response from the comments: this was specifically about people being friends with terfs. I’m friends with lots of people that I disagree with on one thing or another. Taking a look at what the radfems are saying so you can stay abreast of the situation is really not the same as boosting a radfems promo post. Being friends with radfems and letting them into fandom bc their meta is good puts trans ppl at risk. Yall can choose your terf friendships over trans friendships if you like tho.

In a separate post I had already written:

Look. I said it before and I’ll say it again. I’m a queer trans man. I am no stranger to the shadowy campaigns against bloggers for being the wrong flavor of queer or doing fandom in a way someone else doesn’t like. I think it is incredibly disrespectful to the queer bloggers that got harassed and are still getting harassed to the point of leaving this site to draw deliberate comparisons here in defense of a terf. People like terfs, exclusionists, and X Critical folks regularly deride and attack bloggers like me. Saying that you won’t allow bigots in your circle is a good thing actually.

Curating your social media to your “personal preference” is something like me choosing not to follow people that vehemently hate the noldor or who call elwing a bad mom.

Unfollowing and blocking bigots is not a matter of “personal preference,” it’s a matter of keeping your marginalized friends safe.

Final Thoughts:

I don’t hold any anger or suspicion toward people that have followed venwe/suyao-supremacy in the past. I know lots of people have had interesting, friendly, and rather innocent conversations with them (at one point, they were rather prolific on here). It’s hard to tell if someone is a terf masquerading as a friendly blog. And I don’t think the solution is to fall into paranoia, scrutinizing every acquaintance for rotten subtext! I just wish more people would appraise themselves of the base tenets of radfem rhetoric so that they can identify it when it crops up, and either re-educate or block the user it’s coming from.

Honestly, I don’t know where to go from here. I don’t want any hate or rude words sent to those involved. But I feel apprehensive about the state of this fandom. I wonder how many people saw this exchange yesterday and said nothing. I am not even so much interested in venwe/suyao-supremacy, who will no doubt slip up again and present us with more terf evidence. The verdict has already been dealt, months ago, on that account. I am far more interested in which people in this fandom prefer to befriend terfs over trans folks.

All in all, this exchange with @cycas and @warrioreowynofrohan has been very illuminating.

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