#traincats

[traincat]

I know there's like 0 possibly of marvel ever letting Peter Parker officially be queer, but what about Johnny? Do you think it's possible that he could be confirmed as bi/pan at some point?

Johnny Storm exists in the weirdest canon sexuality grey area known to mankind. Is he constantly referred to as gay? Yeah. Is there evidence that several high profile Marvel creators think he's queer? Yes. Marjorie Liu confirmed that the intent in her run in Dark Wolverine was that there was a sexual relationship between him and Akihiro. Kurt Busiek retweeted an article I wrote that explicitly discussed the homosexual subtext of Johnny's character. Dan Slott reportedly wanted to write Johnny and Wyatt in a romantic relationship, which is believable if you look at the beginning of his run, but was told no. (Slott's written gay relationships before in Amazing Spider-Man, so I wouldn't find this so surprising.) And John Byrne wrote this:

(FF #251) John Byrne I desperately want to study you in a lab.

But is Johnny canonically anything but 100% straight? No, not officially. Marvel, the conglomerate, officially views Johnny as heterosexual, and if the Dan Slott thing is true even recently blocked an attempt at having Johnny come out. If this is true, it's most likely because of the new movie, because let's be honest, corporate Marvel does not care about Johnny Storm on the same level it cares about Spider-Man or the Punisher or Iron Man.

Because let's be honest. This goes deep. And it's been going on a long time. The above John Byrne panel is not the only example. There is a long-running thread of homophobic comments targeting Johnny running through 616 canon.

(Hulk vs Thing: Hard Knocks #3) "Light in the loafers" is slang for a gay man, for anyone who doesn't know.

(Dark Reign: Zodiac #2. I don't recommend reading this, by the way, not even if you're going deep down the Johnny Sexuality Well, but for the record Johnny, despite not being canonically gay, literally gets gaybashed in this comic.)

(FF #151) Does it get more blatant than a character named "Mahkizmo" referring to Johnny as "an effeminate"? Someone get me Gerry Conway on the phone, I need to know what he was thinking when he wrote this. (I know what Gerry Conway was thinking because Gerry Conway is a very good and very intentional writer.)

Then there's Ben's repeated teasing about Johnny's "crush" on Spider-Man, referring to them as "love boids" and so on. This is friendlier than the above comments, but then, if we assume Johnny is queer, Ben would know about it. He certainly knew what was going on with Johnny and Akihiro.

(Daken: Dark Wolverine #4) "Got what he came for, right?" Real double entendre here, since "what he came for" is both a weapon from Reed and, clearly, sex with Johnny.

The posing here is not subtle, even before you factor in that Marjorie Liu, who co-wrote this series along with Daniel Way, confirmed on social media that the relationship was meant to be read as sexual. (So you can probably add Way to the list of writers who think Johnny is queer, too.)

In fact, I'd say that Liu and Way depict the whole family as knowing about Johnny's sexuality and about the relationship.

(Daken: Dark Wolverine #4)

So if Johnny is in the closet, the way this issue frames it, he's only in the closet to the public. He's not in the closet to his family.

(Deadline #1) "All right, Storm, who were you with last night: Britney? Christina? Eminem?" in reference to Johnny getting caught "with a bottle in one hand and a blonde in another." So he's not doing a great job on that front, either.

Then there's Johnny's tendency, despite the perception of him as a womanizer, to look incredibly uncomfortable when he's kissed by a woman -- even a woman he purportedly has romantic interests in. Take, for example, the following panels:

(FF #562) He certainly is just standing there while Psionics, his one-time bad girl fling, kisses him and invites him to come see her again. Which he doesn't do, by the way. The next time he sees Psionics, she'll kill his close family friend Alyssa Moy right in front of him. Great!

(FF #259) Literally running away from Sharon Selleck. Now, we can say that he just wasn't attracted to her, which is true -- he was very ardently pursuing her roommate, Julie DeAngelo. Except.

(FF #263) That's certainly some kind of posture when she kisses him, and of course as soon as she kisses him, he's "over her."

There's more examples of this, too, where Johnny has a pre-existing connection with a woman only for him to completely freeze up or lean away from her when he's kissed, with no follow through on his part. (This is part of the reason I personally headcanon him as gay and not bi, but that's besides the point.) And it's a totally separate issue from the other longrunning thread of him being kissed as a form of assault. Which also happens. Like a lot. "Johnny Storm" and "consent issues" are basically synonymous at this point, which again is really interesting if we're looking at this from the perspective of Johnny and sexuality, since most of these incidents involve women as the perpetrators.

(Most. Not all. Dark Reign: Zodiac definitely implies some things, and I think it's interesting that Akihiro initiates his connection to the Fantastic Four by shooting Johnny through the thigh with an arrow.)

I've mentioned this before, but again, for a character who has the reputation that Johnny has developed, both in and out of universe, it is deeply bizarre that he does not have sex scenes. He doesn't have them. Peter Parker has sex scenes. Kinky sex scenes! There is zero doubt in my mind that that Peter Parker is attracted to women. I can't even show you Johnny Storm having vanilla missionary honeymoon lovemaking that fades to black. Whenever they want to show you he's had sex, it is always in the aftermath, and he is rarely having a great time about it. What's up with that, Marvel! I know, but do you!

Then there's Unstable Molecules: Fantastic Four, which exists in a metatextual area -- it's a fictionalized account of the "real people" who inspired the Fantastic Four, the story of four people rapidly barreling towards a disastrous dinner party that would be witnessed by two comic book creators. And it's Johnny is definitely queer.

(Unstable Molecules #3) "Johnny, it is the fiery night, and you are a holy flaming flower." The extras for Unstable Molecules even include a love poem written by the beatnik who calls him "a holy flaming flower" that is definitely supposed to be about Johnny.

So that's the grey area. You have all of this content that either implies or occasionally outright states that Johnny is not straight. But according to Marvel, the actual publisher and company, Johnny is straight. Personally, I don't like saying things are canon if they aren't explicitly 100% confirmed canon, but the wealth of evidence here is so substantial that I make an exception. It's just a matter of when Marvel the actual company is going to admit it.

(Fantastic Four: Marvel Snapshots #1)

[ghostly-grave]

have you ever wanted a collage of just a handful of times johnnys fainted or been in peril. well you are in luck

[charmwitch]

Illustration for The Devoted, by @traincat.

Please go read it!!

This illustration set is part of the Tellius Big Bang Event over on Twitter!! Thank you SOOOO much for letting me draw for you!!!

[hex82141a]

everybody say thank you lina for asking me to draw traincat. i missed it lotssss

[soyoudontlikejazz]

@traincat ‘s Put A Spell on You

Link: https://archiveofourown.org/works/17150657

[ao3screenshotss]

[haveyoureadthisdcfic]

Subfandoms: Superman, Other (Blue Beetle)

Media: Comics

Relationships: Gen (Kon-El & Paco Tejas)

Summary:

This was how it started: Paco, in Arizona, kidnapped and wearing leopard print. Or, Kon and Paco become awesome bros, mostly by accident.

Authour: @traincat

Year: 2011

Submitted by @kiragecko

Submitter's comment:

This is the best friendship to never exist.

[lvebug]

there's a bit of a misconception of the original "with great power quote." most comics and other spider-man media shorten it to be "with great power comes great responsibility" which is a fine way of shortening it, but the original quote all the way from amazing fantasy #15 is "with great power there must also come — great responsibility"

this has a lot to do with the jewish ideals of tikkun olam—healing the world, jewish responsibility, and jewish guilt and is probably the single greatest factor in andie's choice of being lovebug. going back to this quote is literally just the best way i have of explaining how it works idk idk.

jewish teachings say that all jews have a responsibility to help heal the world, which is done through many things including acts of charity, loving-kindness or compassion, mitzvahs, and helping others. this is baked into the jewish religion; it is part of the faith. being jewish involves being responsible for helping your fellow neighbors and helping the world. we should feel responsible to do these things. this responsibility is a good thing (even if it can also cause crushing guilt over if we're doing enough 👍)

the "must also come" part of the original great responsibility quote, for me, really hammers in this idea because there is a difference when you add this line. the shortened version imo implies an intrinsic connection between power and responsibility. "with great power comes great responsibility". it's just there. a lack of choice. that with one comes the other. but, it's not an inherent thing. when "there must also come great responsibility", the responsibility is something to be added on top of the power. when given power, one must choose to use that power for good. (that is the responsibility).

the key is that, it's a choice that isn't perceived as a choice. for andie (or peter, as the original quote is attributed to him) she does not feel that she has a choice. it is an obligation to use her spider powers to become lovebug to help save people; to help heal the world. she was raised on this belief and it's such a core part of who she is that it is a responsibility that she has no (perceived) choice in. however, it is a choice. because we all have the power to choose our actions, even if it doesn't always feel like it. this is the marked responsibility of a good person always trying to be better because she might view herself as just being her normal self and doing a normal amount, but there are people who don't choose to use their power for good—whatever amount of power that might be. for her and for peter it's a choice they have no choice in simply because choosing not to help others was never a choice they were going to make.

[maydayprkr]

Responding to your tags but omg do not start DMBJ with Adventure Behind the Bronze Door, because it’s like starting a very complicated comics run in the middle. Start with Reunion: The Sound of Providence. Same actor plays the second fella with the same whimsy. (They swap actors for the characters in this series on the reg so the first guy is played by someone else but they both have The Chemistry.)

OH! thank you for letting me know!

I usually try to do some research before diving into things. So this helps a lot 💙 ty again

[horsegirlwithnoname]

found a guy

[glowingshadows]

i’m so ill about spideytorch rn rotating them in my brain like a microwave

[traincat]

a genuine question why do people keep saying johnny is gay instead of bi? like i get it and i agree BUT why not bi?

Honestly I think this is one of those things that is totally up to personal interpretation, considering the weird Queer Grey Area Johnny lives in. I think he's gay, though I've gone back and forth over the years, but if other people want to think he's bi/pan, I don't think that's a wrong interpretation, either. (I do not control how other people label the Human Torch's sexuality, etc.)

I think, for me, what's swung my personal read on the character to gay over the years is just like, the extreme lack of actual demonstrated attraction to women. Johnny says he's attracted to women. Loudly! Frequently! Through the bullhorn! Is there a camera turned his way! Oh God please someone believe him. But when confronted with an attractive woman who wants to be intimate with him, he may go along with it, but sooner or later he's going to start ghosting.

(FF v3 #55) "'Scuze me -- I had this funny idea a guy was supposed to spend time with his girlfriend."

Look at his marriage, for example. Not the Skrull retcon stuff, although I do think that ultimately comes into play -- I'm talking about two things. There's, first off, the extreme sexlessness of the honeymoon.

(FF #301 and #302) I'm not saying like, nobody goes hiking on their honeymoon. I'm sure there's avid hikers enjoying romantic hikes out there. I'm saying that this is Johnny Storm and he's out there backpacking and visiting artist communes. Peter and Mary Jane, by comparison, were making the beast with two backs on a beach in France. (I actually really like #302 as an issue, it has a fun concept, but it does kind of highlight how Unsexy Johnny and Alicia are as a couple. The chemistry of styrofoam.)

Then there's the Crystal Emotional Affair.

(FF #305) "So things did work out in the long run!" Oh yeah you guys are gonna be real normal about each other.

(FF #317)

This never goes anywhere, mostly because of Johnny. I don't doubt Crystal would have upheld the most holiest of marital duties: cheating. (I love Crys, I just think her love 'em and leave 'em tendency is funny.) There's a lot of melodramatic bemoaning here -- she's the most beautiful girl he's ever seen! She regrets her decision to leave him! They're angsting about it in the shower. Separate. Separate showers. Because this never goes anywhere even remotely physical, because Johnny Would Never Cheat On His Wife, as he says. Repeatedly.

It's important to look at the issue numbers here: Johnny and Alicia only got together in #275. They got married in #300. By #305, Johnny is basically emotionally clawing at the walls to get out of his marriage, falling back on old romances, which is something of a tendency. When Crys dumped him, after all, he tried to get back with Dorrie Evans. Nothing happened there, either.

And then much later on, when Crystal does come onto him, he's not into it.

(Marvel Knights 4 #30)

Again, there's a pattern here. After Frankie Raye left him (for Galactus), he pursued her roommate Julie Angel hard -- albeit chastely. But when Julie does kiss him, he's suddenly "over her." Johnny talks the talks but he rarely walks the walk.

(FF #236) Out of curiosity, I wanted to see what Peter was doing romantically around this exact time. Peter's a useful yardstick here because whatever else you want to headcanon about him, he's definitely romantically and sexually interested in women, and consistently portrayed that way. At this point in time (roughly late 1981), Peter was embroiling himself in a love triangle with his fellow grad students, Marcy Kane and Deb Whitman, and then also getting back together with Black Cat. He should be classified a menace against women. But while Peter is referencing cunnilingus techniques in scenes with his wife, Johnny's most overt sexual reference from his own marriage is that he's going to "darn Alicia's socks." And that's not even Johnny! That's in an imagined world that never happened! We know they were sleeping together, because Johnny certainly believes it's possible that Lyja could have been pregnant, but there's no passion between Johnny and Alicia during the marriage. And if it was just the marriage, I could write that off as him not being attracted to Alicia specifically. But it's not just the marriage.

Johnny is constantly portrayed as someone who wants to be in love, but once he's in that relationship, there's always a barrier or an obstacle. He's probably his happiest in his initial relationship with Crystal which is, uh, unfortunate, because that started when he was roughly 19 and ended at latest in his very early 20s. (Again, we're dating him by dating Peter, here -- Johnny got married very shortly before Peter did, and Peter got married, by his own statement, five years after he started college, so he was roughly 23. Johnny would also have been 23 or 24 when he got married. This means MJ was 22 when she got married oh my God put her back in that club.) And Johnny and Crystal are very cute!

(FF #64 and #67) They're adorable. But they're kids. Just because Johnny had a Pinterest board for his Plaza wedding at age 19 doesn't mean it was going to work.

Then there's Frankie -- obviously, Frankie and Johnny were not doing anything, because whenever Frankie takes off her clothes she's got a whole gold bodysuit under there. Once the reveal with her powers happens, Johnny is disturbed by Frankie's more violent tendencies. Then she leaves him for Galactus. His next "big" relationship is Alicia/Lyja, and that's. You know, that's a whole thing. After that, things never REALLY get off the ground again. There's relationships! But they don't go anywhere. This is also when the Playboy Johnny persona emerges, as shallow as it is, and while I do think there's enough evidence to headcanon that as Johnny's trauma response to the Skrull marriage, honestly it's probably just because Marvel's cadre of largely male writers in the late '90s and early '00s couldn't imagine a single blond pretty boy wouldn't be a raging skirt chaser. I'm going to address this in more detail in a reply to a different ask, but I personally believe in something called the Johnny Effect where I give every new Fantastic Four writer post-Claremont something like the first few issues to adjust to writing Johnny. There's usually a slide into a more honest look at the character after that point. Which I get -- there's characters where, after you write them for a while, you start thinking about them more in depth, and I think that's what happens with Johnny.

The third thing for me is like -- I've talked about this before but there's the history of violation linked to Johnny and intimacy. In some way, in a lot of his relationships (although not all), Johnny is lied to, has his boundaries violated, or is flat out assaulted. This isn't solely with women, granted. Daken Akihiro, Wolverine's son, engineers their (word of author canon) relationship by shooting him through the thigh with an arrow and pinning it on Bullseye. But I would not call that an isolated incident on the other party's side. It's just that it does happen a lot with women, including women he's had relationships with.

(FF #46 and #49) That's an alternate Frankie Raye, but still. You have the kiss with Psionics at the end of that arc, only for Psionics' next appearance to involve her killing one of Johnny's good friends in front of him while threatening the lives of his niece and nephew. There's a certain level of melodrama expected in romantic relationships with comics, but Johnny's drama often crosses a line in a way Peter's "bad girl" drama with, say, Felicia, doesn't. I think you could trace a lot of this back to the unaddressed aspects of the Lyja plotline, but not all of it.

Other characters just also euphemistically call him gay.

(Hulk vs Thing: Hard Knocks #3) Why does the Hulk think he's gay.

I swung around to thinking he's just not attracted to women at all through a lot of rereads and writing various meta posts and just generally thinking about him, but again, that's not like, I can't make any rules here, I can just make my own case. If other people want to view him as bi, I think you could make a case, too. From my perspective, there's a lack of demonstrated attraction to women (even the weird Sexy Cosplayers scene in Miller's run is a set up so a film crew can walk in on him and he abandons them at the first opportunity) and a lack of emotional intimacy to a lot of his relationships when compared to his Very Heterosexual Male Friendships. For me, I think what's going on with Johnny is that he was put in this role as a teenager of the Celebrity Teen Heartthrob, and he was at least somewhat aware at that point in time that the Fantastic Four's security depended heavily on both him and Sue being desirable to fans. But boyband-types grow up, and Johnny has struggled to match his image to what's "desirable" to his current market group -- but he knows it involves him in a high profile relationship with a woman, and that's where a lot of his post-Alilyja relationships have come from. (Darla, Kourtney, Nita, etc.) I think Dark Wolverine demonstrated that if Johnny's in the closet, it's not to his family. They know what's going. It's the rest of the world Johnny keeps himself closeted over, because he links his high flying heartthrob image to safety.

(Daken: Dark Wolverine #4) "Is peace hard to come by for you?"

But again, sexuality headcanons -- and again, Johnny is not canon-by-corporate queer -- are personal. These are just my thoughts on the subject.

(FF v6 #5) "Be brave, Johnny Storm."

[wellnoe]

Glad you read Scarlet Spider!! In a way that’s all you need.

scarlet spider is a good time!! i'm glad i read it too :)

[irctcofficial]

Your smiles and happy feedback fuel our passion as we turn your train journeys into flavourful adventures! Thank you for inspiring us to serve you better.

#ThinkTravelThinkIRCTC

[hex82141a]

ah to be a cat who is a train (a train who is a cat)

[leemuur]

Stumbled across this article and had the misfortune of reading some of the comments...this one cracked me up tho because:

Sorry, is this the hard, tough, super heterosexual and unemotional guy you're talking about?

Ohhhhhh or maybe you're talking about when he undergoes stereotypically more feminine behaviors, like getting pregnant.

OHHH or maybe when his biggest fear is hurting everyone he loves and being terrified of his powers when he first gets them.

No you're right, you're right. It must be his incredibly masculine fashion sense, for sure.

Or this?

Ohhhhhh or this.

Must be when he handles a bad mission like a tough guy that doesn't need anyone or anything for suuuure.

MUST be talking about this.

Or just, yah know. Being generally 16 when his life changes forever and he goes to space and gets superpowers.

Man...I hate the woke agenda completely changing a character. And this isn't even including the slew of extremely queer coded names and dubiously consensual scenes he's written in. Shoutout to Traincat for breaking those ones down. Anyways!