#tros speculation

[pileofsith]

Apparently a commission I did way back when The Force Awakens was just releasing its initial promo images is...

the very first Reylo fanart.

[david-talks-sw]

What The Acolyte Season 2 would have looked like (had it not been canceled)

A nice thing about The Acolyte is that showrunner Leslye Headland was always very clear about the themes of the show and what the story was about, for her... and where it was going.

So as a fun exercise, I figured I'd speculate where the story might've gone, had the show not just been canceled.

The Sith subplot:

So Season 1 ends on this powerful image of Osha and Qimir/The Stranger standing together, united...

... but they're not gonna have a happy ending.

Firstly, their relationship is still forming. Yes, they united against a common enemy, but now it's time to put the pleasantries aside and start training her into becoming a fearsome Sith warrior, which is a dynamic that puts a strain on their relationship.

Secondly, and most importantly, because Qimir wants to train Osha so that he can overthrow his own master... Darth Plagueis.

And Plagueis realizes what Osha is. She's a being created exclusively using the Force... wow! Maybe she's the thing he was looking for to finally make his attempts at achieving immortality succeed!

Osha, in the meantime, realizes the Sith life isn't for her either. Her path lies somewhere in the middle. She decides to quit, maybe tries to convince Qimir to come with her.

Qimir is killed. Either because he rejected Osha's offer, thus being left alone to be off'd by Plagueis, or maybe dies sacrificing himself to let Osha escape, so the Sith Lord can't get his hands on her.

The internal review of the Jedi Order:

Beginning of the season, the chancellor is still deciding, the Jedi are being reviewed, but by the end of the first episode he decides to let Senator Rayencourt do his thing.

Instead of lying to him, Vernestra tells Yoda the whole truth... and he agrees to keep it under wraps, at least until she can find Qimir and bring him to justice, thus helping elucidate everything and get the Senate off their back.

Vernestra attempts to use Mae to find Osha (and thus Qimir), maybe in an attempt to exploit their bond in the Force. However, as with half the "memory loss" tropes in TV, Mae eventually regains her memories and frees herself from Vernestra's grip. She's now out in the wind.

Unable to find Qimir, Vernestra's lies eventually pile up and are uncovered. This scandal results in the Jedi being in the place we find them, in the Prequels:

With their power restricted, and put directly under the thumb of a Senate that will now grow more and more corrupt, seeing as the Jedi are now unable to keep them in check.

Finally, we get to Mae and Osha's final fate:

With both sisters away from their captors, their identity remains a mystery that they must both make sense of. They're not sisters, they're not twins... they're the same person.

At some point they reunite and find themselves on Dathomir... greeted by Mother Koril.

The get-together starts out great, but takes a turn when Koril explains she wants Osha to go through with her gathering. The witches of Brendok had a nefarious ulterior motive when performing the ritual that resulted in the sisters' creation... and Koril wants to see it through, their individuality be-damned.

It is at this point that the sisters' realize what "the Power of Two" really is. They're not Jedi, they're not Sith... they're something in-between. A Dyad in the Force.

They overcome Koril, maybe Plagueis too (that way he can witness a Dyad himself and we can tie it back to TROS) and go about their own way in the galaxy, now finally free and secure in who they are.

Either that or one tragically dies so the other can live. It is Star Wars, after all. Or maybe they fuse back into one being?

Bottom line: that'd be my guess as to what would happen in Season 2, had it continued. Note, I don't like the storyline I just detailed. In my headcanon:

Osha and Qimir would get slaughtered by Plagueis (because that's where joining the Dark Side takes you),

Vernestra would lie to Yoda and the ordeal would end there (because there's no way Yoda would hide something of this magnitude), with

Mae living off her days by rebuilding herself a life, happily oblivious to the horrors of her past (she deserves a break and fuck the whole "gray Jedi" nonsense).

The above is just speculation of what we would've gotten, going off the Leslye Headland quotes you can find below:

"Qimir is killed at Plagueis' hand, Mae leaves the Sith."

"If I continue to get to tell this story, I know how I would like that to play out. And I would say I think it’s pretty complicated and messy." - Leslye Headland, Nerdist, 2024

"With these two other people having gone through this positive corruption arc and coming together in a joining of forces and a romantic pairing, we always wanted to introduce Plagueis as a foreboding complication. We know Plagueis’s apprentice ends up being Palpatine, so it would be interesting to see how these two red-lightsaber-carrying warriors fit into that story." - Leslye Headland, Vulture, 2024

"What I think is going on with Plagueis is that he also knows this has happened. He also is aware, or will quickly become aware of this aspect of the Force existing. This is why I gotta say I disagree with the criticism of, “Well, so and so didn't have it, and Palpatine… Why do these women have it?” First of all, we're in a completely different part of the timeline. Second of all, if I'm going to tell the story of Plagueis, which I would love to do, like, absolutely love to do, him pursuing that power is so much more interesting as a storyline than him already having it." - Leslye Headland, Collider, 2024

"If the [Sith Apprentice] is craving the Master's power,then at some point, he must recruit his [own] apprentice-to overthrow the Master. And that's the acolyte." - Leslye Headland, Star Wars Conversations, 2024

"[We put the Darth Plagueis cameo in the series because] we wanted to show Qimir’s master." - Leslye Headland, Entertainment Weekly, 2024

"Because there’s Plagueis and because we know that Palpatine is eventually Plagueis’ apprentice, we know that these two people are not going to fall into that set lineage. [The end of Season One] is a triumph for Osha; it’s a triumph for both of them. But the added complication that master and apprentice — or in this case apprentice and acolyte — there’s always an imbalance. One to hold the power, one to crave it. And seeing these two characters completely aligned with each other in this hugely satisfying way, the tease is: How will they survive the structure of how the Sith work? Q: Is there a chance that they could decide not to be Sith? Yeah, I can’t talk to you about that." - Leslye Headland, Inverse, 2024

"Vernestra's lies become the reason the Jedi's hands are tied by the Senate, in the Prequels."

"Rayencourt suggests the internal review of the Jedi, obviously at the small council, but Chancellor Drellik doesn’t doesn't confirm or deny that request. It felt like she had to report to her superior and let him know what’s up, and probably tell him about what happened between her and her padawan. [...] It’s not like it’s the first time Yoda has hidden something from the Senate and the Republic." - Leslye Headland, Inverse, 2024

"A generation or two generations have gone by since the Nihil. There was a lot of drama, so it was just logical to me that there would be more of this button-down [idea]: ‘We're trying to avoid the mistake. Let's limit the power. Let's do that before someone asks us to.’ And it was just logical to me to show Vernestra as the bridge for that. [...] Vernestra and her relationship with the Senate and how that's going to unfold with this sort of internal review of the Jedi — where does that lead?" - Leslye Headland, Entertainment Weekly, 2024

"I am really excited about the prospect of the Mae-Vernestra relationship. I really love the idea that Vernestra now has on her hands a Force-sensitive, powerful woman that is, at this point, docile enough that Vernestra would be able to educate and form an allegiance with." - Leslye Headland, Inverse, 2024

The Final Antagonist & the Power of Two...

"No body, no death. That’s what I’ll say about [Mother Koril]. But what I will say, as a tease, if we are able to explore this story more, her species will tell you a little bit about where she ends up." - Leslye Headland, Inverse, 2024

[frumfrumfroo]

I was reading some old Reylo posts and came across a user on here saying that even if Rian Johnson had directed TROS, it still would've been bad, because of interference from higher ups (Rey Skywalker was a consistent theme across the two scripts - but imo, I think that might've just been because they were collectively mad she wasn't a Skywalker lol).

If this isn't an annoying and tiresome question, what do you think? It's hard to speculate but I do find it a bit fun, because there's always been that 'what if' for me that if Rian had done it, maybe it wouldn't have been awful... I guess the implication here is that, was TROS always going to be bad?

I'm ruminating on it a bit because it seems like Disney has kind of segmented the SW fanbases across their shows - Prequel stuff, worldbuilding stuff, OT stuff, and now the romance/Force storyline stuff. All of these combined elements is what made SW so potent, what made something like Reylo so powerful, but it's what makes it a hard brand to sell.

What we heard was that Kennedy asked Rian to do it, but he said he needed more time to write the script and Iger/DLF was unwilling to move the release date. I'm not sure how verified that ever was, but it's the most depressing fucking thing imaginable if true. The same short-term only, immediate profit and your quarterly bonus over the integrity of the company and the franchise which has been destroying Disney as a studio over the last decade or so.

I do think the most blame for tros must ultimately rest with Iger, but it's not like that absolves JJerio from responsibility for how bad it actually is.

I have answered this exact question before, and speculated on related stuff a few times, but unfortunately I haven't been able to find that post for you.

To me, if we learnt anything from DotF being a thing, it's that there was never anyone at the wheel, plotgate was totally true, and the directors were allowed to do whatever they wanted. If Rian had been making the third film from the start, I don't think they would have tried to impose any major story beats on him. The reason it became such a shitshow was The Book of Henry came out and they realised Colin's script was totally unacceptable way too late.

And once the can of meddling was open and you're back to JJ 'no thoughts, head empty' Abrams as a workman director, the suits were basically writing epIX with Terrio's incest fever dreams as connective tissue. They kept elements from Colin's version because they were trying to save time and use as much of the work which had already been done as possible. There was no commitment to any of those ideas, it's just incompetence and with no direction or ideas of their own, they were making a reddit checklist to try to please the whiners rather than writing any actual story.

Like, none of this would have happened if Rian were involved, because Rian would have written an actual story.

SW is mythology and very few people working at DLF seem to have ever understood that or have any idea what it means. Disney has segmented it because that's what they know, they want to have different product to sell to different demographics to maximise saturation and profit. That's their business model. They don't understand the foundation, the Saga itself, and its universal appeal, they seem content to let that stay dead and focus on compartmentalising and pandering to smaller, separate audiences.

[rcedge]

I will always support TLJ hate because I was a huge Luke Skywalker fan and I feel like they destroyed his character and then just killed him off at the end :( I gave up on the franchise after that. The whole discourse around that movie was so strange too. After TFA everybody was speculating about who Rey's parents were and I loved the theory that Luke was her father and Kylo was her cousin and they'd all been tragically separated somehow (very Wars of the Roses in space, the daughter of the son versus the son of the daughter). And then with TLJ the director was like 'um actually Rey being a Skywalker by blood would be totally elitist and you can be force sensitive without being related to an existing character ya know'. And then in ROS they randomly made her the granddaughter of Palpatine lol. And I haven't even mentioned the way that they treated characters like Finn. What an absolute mess!

I could not agree with you more ESPECIALLY on the luke front like you're telling me the guy who saw good in his planet-exploding dad tried to kill his nephew for being emo? Come on man. he's literally the titular hope in a new hope. you're telling me he just rebuilt the jedi order exactly how it was? COME ON MANNNNN!!!!!!

with rey i personally never really gave any mind to who her parents were but i thought the assertion that it would be elitist or whatever to make her related to the skywalkers was very bizarre considering that the whole of star wars is ostensibly the story of the skywalker family Rey's story in general just suffered badly from everybody having completely different ideas of what they wanted to do and so she never developed like any kind of interesting personality or connections to anyone beyond kylo which was kind of stupid as fuck cus her relationship in the fist film with finn was fun and i think if they actually gave us the functional trio of finn rey and poe it could have been a fun dnymaic but what ever we need that rat kylo fsr

the palpatine shit is hands down the most bizarre thing like i remember sitting in the theater and just blurting out "What the fuck?" that movie was genuinely so bad i started crying and i tried to leave but the people i was with at the time would not let me lol which was fair movie tickets are kind of too expensive to waste even if it feels like your soul being scraped out with some kind of blunt object

re: finn and poe this actually bothers me so much like even beyond a shipping thing obviously cus Seriously what was the deal with any of that. i think we can all agree that finn should have been force sensitive (thus taking care of rian johnson's stupid ass worry about skywalker only force sensitive characters or whatever the fuck) instead of giving him a completely Nothing plot in the most Nothing plot movie of all time wherein nothing gets accomplished by anyone this has beentalked about by better and more intelligent people than me

what i don't see talked a lot about is what they did to poe like he was completely in the right for not trusting laura dern's stupid fuck character holdo or whatever her fuck ass name was like would YOU???? it was so frustrating like sitting there like Wait but hes right you are completely suspicious how the hell was he supposed to know you had some grand master plan if you are refusing to tell the people under your command even the ones that are quite high up literally nothing . fuck was i glad when she did suicide .

also i forget if this was in tlj or tros cus frankly they all kind of blend together in a river of piss and shit at this point but making poe a drug trafficker was crazyyyyy. your single hispanic character in a mainline star wars film and you completely retcon his backstory from Son of rebels that worked with leia -> drug dealer is fucking crazy like are you serious LOL i hate those fucking films so much bro

oh also i hate the porgs and i was glad when chewbacca tried to eat one cus i hated them i hated them i hated them die die die die

[littlesparklight]

Paris, Antheus, and Deiphobos

A completely different love triangle than the usual one!

So, who is Antheus? He's certainly obscure, just like the scrap of myth attached to him. He is a(nother) son of Antenor, our (only, I believe) surviving source for this bit of info Tzetzes' scholia on Lycophron's Alexandra.

To start with, Antheus' mention in the Alexandra: "[...] nor thy love of Antheus [...]" (line 134)

The "thy" here is Paris. No Deiphobos (yet).

Here's the relevant bit of Greek text from Tzetzes' scholia, I've underlined it in red.

And then the (machine translated, from Topostext) relevant bit of translation I've marked out where my screencapped page starts in the translated scholia and then underlined again:

Here we've got Deiphobos!

As you can see, this is all there is. They both loved Antheus, and Paris accidentally kills the young man. Anything beyond this is someone own's adaptation or headcanon, and isn't supported. Given the way that lovers are usually the ones who are the accidental killers, in my opinion Paris is more likely to have been the one in an actual relationship with Antheus, with Deiphobos on the side. But that is speculation, of course.

Antheus' only afterlife, I think, might be in this anonymous Byzantine Trojan War account:

You can see the outline of the earlier version, though with the Menelaos element completely removed and Paris simply sent to Greece for having killed this relative. Why I believe this might be Antheus, or an adapted version of him, is that in Dictys, there's a (frankly impossible) bit of genealogy that makes Antenor related to the Trojan royal family via Ganymede's sister Kleomestra, if only because Ganymede's brother Assaracus is then made one of her sons, too. That genealogy might work on its own if one considers Assaracus the son of Kleomestra the nephew of Assaracus the son of Tros, however. Either way, that genealogy would make Antheus Paris' (and Deiphobos') kin.

Anyway, that's it for this tragic gay love story!

[1millionmymelodys]

I apologize, this is so so long IM SO SO SORRY for the rant, I CANT HELP IT

But Nine…. Oh Nine

Again I’m sorry I keep talking about Nine, as I’ve said before he’s my favorite character in the series, so I’m sorry if it’s kinda annoying. But my god I have so many thoughts on that bastard. For one my love for nine comes from a place of my own personal interpretation and interest . Like when I was younger he became sort of an outlet for my own gender expression, he’s a very hypermasculine character and being a very fem presenting non binary person, it was very fun and cathartic to project myself onto him and give him fem presenting attributes. Like I love love love feminine things and because of that, in person I’m perceived as GIRL or WOMEN. So being able to project myself onto Nine and make him enjoy and act in “feminine ways” felt very validating. It was like oh girly things do not equal to GIRL. If that makes any sense, lol I hope that wasn’t confusing. And then over time he sort of warped into another character, until he was just my own original character completely separated from Nine.

But within the series I also find him quite interesting and I also think the fandoms interpretation of him is very interesting (especially how it’s evolved). But of course my affinity for Nine does not invalidate the critiques and criticisms towards him. He’s a character where you can’t have one without the other, like you can’t like Nine without in some way acknowledging that he is very far from perfect. And what’s equally frustrating is that his flaws are hardly acknowledged in the books, like ofc he’s poked at for his comments and blunt attitude but there’s never a strong condemnation from any of the other characters, except for five, who is seen as in the wrong for doing so and in way that sort of hinders nines character. Arguably in between TRoS nine kinda just becomes a goofy comic relief character and he feels kinda flanderized (like don’t get me wrong he has his moments that I enjoy, but as whole his character and development don’t really go anywhere). It isn’t until the reborn series where he really starts to get a lot of interesting development, like nine in the spin-off series really is my favorite “version” of him. Basically I think that his complexity gets sorta ignored within the original series, that hes shown to have deeper emotions than just “PUNCH SHIT” and I wish that could’ve been explored more. Also he’s not the only character to get kinda sidelined (again he gets a lot more attention in LL reborn, this referring to the og series), I think marina, eight and Adam all have such interesting stories and personalities that get kinda dropped (like eight literally DIES and Adam his sent to a prison camp and never heard from again👎)

Also I need to make one for thing clear, the way Nine treated five really has no excuse, like huh??? What??? Like Mr I don’t like bullies, what are you thinking????? And without making this a whole novel, I’ll say that nines treatment of five reflects a bigger issue within the narrative. The fact that Nine is portrayed to be mostly justified in bullying five because five is a traitor, plays into the cruel trope of characters being “bad” or seen as more “bad” because they have traits that aren’t conventionally attractive. Like Nine made fun of Five before he knew that five was betraying them. both five and Nine do morally dubious things, but because Nine fits the mold of appearing more acceptable he’s forgiven for his actions, while five is repeatedly tortured and punished for his.

This is the end I promise. But as a whole I really do love Nine. He’s a character that I like to speculate about. Also I think he’s just a silly guy at times. He a stupid little idiot who I like to make fun of. While also being flawed and at times cruel. As a whole he’s one of those characters where I can’t quite pin point my fixation on, and it’s a mix of various things. But I enjoy the conversation around him and I like to see all the different opinions and perspectives about him and on the series as a whole, it’s so fun.

[hydrangeyes]

Cloud Meadow Rambles #2

shout out to @chess-blackmyre for giving my the Lab Dialogue from their play-through and feeding my obscene obsession!

(I swear at some point I'll eventually calm down, but for now this is what my brain decided to cling to rn)

Here are some notes I made through out the doc! Spoilers ahead duh

Please be aware that this is purely my own speculation and self world building! In no way do I believe or think what I am rambling about here will become canon or fact.

Giev: Too many. The Liberation was our greatest fight, it cost us our ability to leave this plane, but in exchange, the greatest extant threat to this world, and possibly all worlds was removed.

Me: This part is interesting. That wizards' can apparently move between planes but because of something they did during the war, they are no longer able too. so then where is Giev exactly when we visit him? But also the implication that there is more than one world, which duh other planets but idk the way it's worded after that statement has me thinking.

-------

Giev: No, I’ve made the best of it, but...The Firmament will never be my true home.]

Me: Is this a wizards are from somewhere else or is it a Giev specifically isn't from this world? or does he just mean this area?

--------

Protagonist: Naga..Dragon...but it’s much more squat and bipedal? What in the...

Me: I won't lie when I first saw them they logged like that frog in town just on steroids and feral.

----------

Personal Log Entry 12: A dozen egos crammed into a hall and given a problem, spending days debating a hundred solutions, testing, re-testing, it was...Magnificent. What stands out to me now is Makaris’s hypothesis. Makaris was like a singularity of genius through which esoteric ideas flowed. Makaris posited research into the Mirror World, a dimension that souls entered where they died. Their requests for resources to research further into it were denied. We had deemed the Mirror World too dangerous for further study...Well, save for Kuttler.

Me:

So clearly Makaris worked on this "Mirror world" Idea on the side. which could fall into my theory on him potentially taking over Tro's body or rather someone else taking his body from said place because the rift I am assuming has been opened if He could communicate with makaris despite him being dead. Kuttler could have been in on that as well

Personal Log Entry 12: They, Makaris, invariably suffered the same fate as any who had made forays into investigating the Mirror World. One day they went too far with their research and was...unmade. Was it pride that led them to disobey us, or were they driven by something else?

(Note idk if they is in a sense of Makaris' pronouns or the group that helped plus makaris. through out my notes I flipped between he/him and they/them pronouns for makaris)

Me: Yeah see here, they kept researching anyway. but what does unmade mean? It's clear Tro can say killed/died, but what does Unmade mean??? wait wait, what is this is why Garst doesn't recall who he was???? was reverted and unmade?

------------

Personal Log, Entry Unknown: P-Personal log, entry...I don’t know, look. I heard them today. Makaris. They...They’re dead! I watched them get unmade in the heat of battle, using a blasted Mirror World Equalizer! There’s no way to recover from that, it’s the same sort of technology we used to ensure the Tyrants’ egos were WIPED from this world…

Me: This… these seems like a case of teleportation issue. rather Makaris actually managed what he was seeking, to access the mirror world, but it ended up dragging him into it as well?? Does this perhaps mean that the Tyrant's egos are there rather than dead?

--------------

Personal Log, Entry Unknown: If their research allowed them even an inkling of ego to exist beyond death, and even to contact me...What if...What if I could undo that wrong while also keeping the world from suffering the Tyrant’s return? A thought for later, I’m going to rest my mind for now, log end.

Me: The use of ego here in substitute of spirit/ghost, is giving proxy vibes. Like I wonder if it's the same type of ego situation as with the Tyrant's egos? and what does that imply?

-----------

[Protagonist: What’s DNA? Giev: Shh! Wizard business!]

Me: This QUESTION. Gods there are a lot of moments where it feels like the protagonist while supposedly the top of their class, doesn't even know the foundations of most topics. Primarily in science and geography to be honest. It also feels interesting Giev's response to this. How does someone who breeds creatures for a living not know what DNA is??????

---------------------

Personal Log, Entry 111: Breakthrough! While I was observing my newest patient, by the by I’ve taken to calling it Atlas, I made an amazing discovery! I took a small sample of its blood to see if it would need any particular nutrients, and while studying it, I witnessed a mutation!

Me: Atlas, the alien/creature thing that we release? (Me finding out their name lmao)

--------

Personal Log, Entry 111: I tried a few more experiments with it, and decided that I could take this small risk, with great success! There are a few errors with this new strand of DNA, but nothing I can’t repair with some ingenuity. Makaris is even here with me now. They’re phantasmal, perhaps composed of some form of psycho-kinetic energy? It’s clear that their experiments were a success too!

Me: so again does that mean the TYRANT'S aren't dead????? since assuming this Makaris that they two can think of using whatever method he is using?

----------

The capsule of fluid lightly bubbles around a strange, humanoid creature. Your gaze snaps down to the flickering display which activates as you lean closer. The symbols on the screen force your eyes to strain, and through beads of tears, you can somehow glean meaning from the arcane runes…

Me: WHAT IS ATLAS? I mean I would it it's an ego or tyrant variant but wouldn't Tro have mention the similarities. However it WAS with it's DNA that helped further Tro's experiment to the next step.

Edit: On the first not, what are. There are several instances where we could somewhat read apparently ancient or obscure runes/languages.

---------

The sound of the creature’s body crashing against the ground betrays a density you were not expecting. The creature stirs, pulling itself up as though it were weightless. As you get a clear look at it, it’s featureless face seems to peer through you.

Me: so looking at the image.. I won't lie it does lowkey looking like Tro….. just a smudge...

--------

Scientific Log, Entry 45: It can within-- ...inject – and transform the wearer into a Saurian! --nly that, but ther is potential for more config—ations! I have – Atlas Strain into three different -ules. Currently the on-- one I have on-hand is the Saurian configuration, but I-- on utilizing the other later. I will store the b-prints in here for –er use!

Me: idk why but feel as tho there are implications of different types of egos/servants. wait- is it egos or servants? is it like a hierarchy, tyrants egos, then servants?

---------

Personal Log, Entry 153: It has also come to my realization that the Genodrive is too resource-intensive to mass-produce...but there is appeal in having several specialists. Obvious military use aside, imagine the data we could gather from having someone, even if in body, perfectly replicate a species and its powers!

Me: sooo similar to what we are doing with our own farm creatures? the whole cross breeding to get better or worse stats?

--------

Personal Log, Entry 153: I think I’m almost ready to start presenting my research to my peers. I’ll start with Giev, winning them over will--

Me: Throughout reading this I love the implications that in comparison to every other supposed wizard, Giev is actually a softy?

-------

Giev: Both...they failed because they believed that the Servants were anything but the creation of their Masters...and succeeded because they brought them back.]

Me: Again. Are Egos servants? or vice versa, we already know tyrants are at the top of the food chain but still. as from this servants are made by the tyrants aka their masters (?) while egos tried to make themselves into beings better FOR the tyrant's.

------

Giev: Blast...careful Lilith, it takes a great strength to kill a Wizard. Leaving is advisable.

Me: hmmmm, I do wonder about that

-----

Last Log: It...It took *cough cough*. Everything I had to put them down. But still it wasn’t enough. I know you came to find your dinnerware set, but I am afraid that it was a lie, much like the small cakes I also promised. A ruse, to further my work. Please, collect my research, preserve it.

Me: "But it still wasn't enough." is this implying that some may have gotten out?????!!!

-----

Last Log: We made a mistake in rendering them extinct...But I still believe we can reverse that error...someone else, with a more sober mind than I should be able to do something...to see where I failed and not make the same mistakes. I think...I think I can hear Makaris again...strange...he sounds different than when we…

Me: and so comes the area that makes me wonder if Makaris was even talking to him to being with or, rather if someone else swooped in before makaris could guide him the the mirror world with them.

-----

And there you have it!!! lol long read but fuck it we ball.

There are other dialogue aspects I wanna closely examine as the player's past has me just as curious, but that's for another time~

Again, this is all speculation on my end using the dialogue from the lab quest! I'm gonna wait speculation on the ,main plot tho as it has yet be fully release, tho I am curious about the whole why an apparent high end boss is collecting so much essence (ugh) and what not.

[rviner]

@dxrkenedheights loki x skoll - school house

-

"Tilsynelatende er den kloke broren her oppe et sted." Loki chimes as he climbs the stairs in the building, a grin already on his face before his eyes even meet the sight of Skoll. Laughter strikes and Loki's arms extend wide when he rushes towards his brother, a giddiness that has stuck to him for the entirety of this day as he finds them one by one. "Jeg hørte at du hadde alle de andre og ledet dem over hele verden." he says in both pride and awe, because not many people would say a Jansen is a leader. Skoll has always been a little different though, five younger brothers at his heels and going wherever he went. "Thorin ledet også ulver. Kanskje er dagen kommet for oss til å innse at vi tilbyr mye mer enn å slåss." Loki only speculates this in jest, a coarse laughter following when he embraces his older brother tightly. Keen and fond and mournful slaps to Skoll's back follow, a squeeze because he is always been something of a father. "Jeg savnet deg. Jeg kan ikke tro at du forlot meg og Thorin." he adds with a playful smirk once he pulls away, inspecting his brother's features in a mock frown. "Å, du har blitt gammel."

[narcopharmacist]

As fillers for my days when I don't read the current fic I'm still into right now entitled Between Dreams & Temptations by tasogareban (because I have been busy with studying and school shit that I think of reading fanfic a distraction, + my anxiety won't let me read because reading fanfics is a ME time), I watched video essays about Reylo, and about the last episode of thr sequel I have yet to watch (because I have not finished the aforementioned fanfic, and this fic is set after between TFA and TLJ so I don't want to cloud my mind with TROS, knowing how it ends already).

The first Reylo video essay I watched was entitled Reylo Theory Explained to the Haters | Why Rey and Kylo Ren Together Makes Sense by The Den of Nerds. It was an OK take, and he said he took his content inspiration from a 3 part series by Vincent Vendetta, so I went ahead and watched those as well. I liked Vincent Vendetta's videos more, and these videos were released after the first movie, episode 8, The Force Awakens. When I read the comments I think people were just speculating / predicting about Reylo happening in the next movie. It was a really good watch. I can't believe Star Wars official posters/merch hinted so much Reylo 😭

Links!

Reylo Explained Part 1 - Vincent Vendetta

Reylo Explained Part 2

Reylo Explained Part 3

---

Last night, I watched what I thought was a video talking about Reylo in TROS, but she talked about TROS in general.

Video title: Oh no! The Rise of Skywalker was real bad :( by Jenny Nicholson

This was hilarious 😂 And I recently just contemplated about whether watching TROS would be even worth my time. The way she talked about it the story felt like it's going to be just a wild goose chase (with the map and Palpatine). It sounds like the movie's premise is really bad.

The comments on the video are so funny tho!

Who are you?

I'm Rey.

Rey who?

Reydio GAGA

---

I already know what happens to Reylo, well, most especially Ben, so I feel like if I watch TROS I'll just have to take it with a grain of fucking salt, and just watch it for the Reylo bond scenes and the kiss.

I've already bookmarked fix-it fics post-TROS for Reylo 😭😭🥴

---

Currently I'm watching Reylo: A Complicated History by Joe Brennan. This was released in 2021, so quite fresh from the last movie of the sequel.

---

I am also going crazy about Adam Driver edits on Tiktok like I cannot stop thinking about Ben Solo like 😮‍💨

This was the edit that started it all for me. Hearing Kali Uchis reminded me of the song she had with Tyler the Creator, and now that song is something I dedicate to Reylo 😭

Song: See You Again by Tyler the Creator

Kali's part:

Can I get a kiss?

And can you make it last forever?

I said I'm 'bout to go to war (Uh-huh)

And I don't know if I'ma see you again

Can I get a kiss? (Can I?)

And can you make it last forever? (Can you?)

I said I'm 'bout to go to war (I'm 'bout to)

And I don't know if I'ma see you again

[redrascal1]

SW fans on the Cantina Forums are speculating that if, in the forthcoming Rey film, Finn will have any children with Rey?

I doubt it. TROS removed Rose (still mad about that) but introduced Jannah.

Daisy Ridley stated unequivocally that 'Rey didn't need a boyfriend.'

But, there again maybe they will. Personally I couldn't care less. I dislike both characters. I also lost respect for Boyega post his 'lay the pipe' comment.....curiously his female fans don't even seem to see how repugnant it was, the same fans that dissed reylo as 'toxic'.

Part of me is pissed that Boyega may get what HE wants after his revolting twitter behaviour....but there again, TROS turned Rey into someone I don't recognise.

So I've decided that Finn and his pipe are welcome to Rey Palpwalker. And their fans are welcome to SW post Kylo/Ben.

Hopefully they'll have deep pockets.

[mariacallous]

Yveneny Prigozhin’s wartime atrocities propelled the brutal mercenary into the limelight. But Prigozhin—who was once Russian president Vladimir Putin’s chef and a small-time criminal—also held a title as one of the world’s biggest disinformation peddlers. For years, Prigozhin operated the notorious Internet Research Agency, a Russian troll farm that meddled in US elections and beyond.

When Prigozhin suddenly died in a mysterious plane crash on August 23, around two months after he led his Wagner Group mercenaries in a failed mutiny against Putin, the trolls didn’t stop posting. Instead, according to a new analysis shared with WIRED, some continued to show their support for him.

In the days immediately after his death, a coordinated network of pro-Prigozhin accounts on X (formerly known as Twitter) pushed messages saying that the warlord was a hero and good for Russia, despite the Wagner Group’s failed rebellion against Putin in June. These messages also blamed the West for the plane crash and said that the Wagner Group would continue operating in Africa.

“It was not profitable for Putin to kill Prigozhin. PMC [private military company] carry a lot of weight in Africa, and Prigozhin skillfully managed it, despite his ‘character quirks,’” one account posted on X. “Prigozhin served for the good of Russia, remained faithful to his military oath, and was killed by saboteurs, or terrorists mined the plane,” another speculated. “In short, he just ditched his phone and disappeared into the sunset, just like in a typical action movie,” a third posted.

The organized accounts were all identified and shared with WIRED by Antibot4Navalny, an anonymous group of volunteers who track Russian-language influence operations on X. A person behind the group, whom WIRED granted anonymity due to safety concerns, says they started inspecting the posts of suspected X accounts after the crash when they “noticed that Prigozhin is surprisingly covered in an exclusively positive light.” The group found 30 accounts pushing pro-Prigozhin narratives, they say.

The activity could be a sign that Prigozhin remained in control of the Internet Research Agency troll factory until he died, the group claims, adding that it echoes similar activity they previously saw. Reports have said that after the attempted June uprising, Prigozhin-owned news websites and the troll factory were being shut down or looking for new owners. “Domestically, there was a lot of debate whether or not Prigozhin lost his control over the troll factory as one of the immediate aftermaths of the mutiny,” the Antibot4Navalny member says.

While the posts on X are only a tiny snapshot of social media activity, they highlight how Russian-linked propaganda has changed since the Internet Research Agency interfered in US politics in 2016, experts say. The Russian misinformation and disinformation industry has evolved into a rich ecosystem of state-backed media, massive Telegram channels, and more conventional social media posts. Millions of people follow so-called military bloggers and war journalists on Telegram—some of these channels are linked to the Russian state, while others are aligned with Pirgozhin and the Wagner Group. But all can muddy the waters or repeat set lines.

“Confusion in the information space is one of the aims of the Kremlin information operations—to make everything equally unbelievable so people’s trust in all kinds of sources is undermined,” says Eto Buziashvili, a disinformation and influence operations researcher with a focus on Russia at the Atlantic Council’s Digital Forensic Research Lab. Since the start of its full-scale war in Ukraine in February 2022, Russia has blocked and censored social media websites, banned independent news media, and pushed reams of disinformation.

Kyle Walter, head of research at misinformation and disinformation research company Logically, reviewed the posts shared by Antibot4Navalny and says they show “signs of being inauthentic.” The X accounts were largely created earlier this year, have low volumes of original posts, and mostly retweet or reply to accounts, and some of them also follow each other, Walter says. The themes the accounts posted about around the plane crash also match what Logically has seen from monitoring Telegram channels linked to the Wagner Group, he says. Walter adds, however, that linking them directly to the Internet Research Agency is harder to do.

The Antibot4Navalny researcher says that based on their previous research, they believe that the pro-Prigozhin trolls operate in similar ways. They “primarily serve” the interests of Putin, but they also push pro-Prigozhin narratives when it doesn’t “hurt” the Russian president, the researcher says. The approach “still worked in the plane-crash episode: Cover Putin as strongly as possible, but also, it is a nice opportunity to praise Prigozhin,” they say. The researcher says they are reporting the accounts to X.

As well as the posts around the plane crash, the Antibot4Navalny group also shared previous research and analysis with WIRED. In one instance, the group reported more than 7,000 suspected accounts to X. We tested dozens of these accounts and found that they have all been removed from the Elon Musk-owned social media company. Antibot4Navalny says the “troll” accounts are often active in groups, pushing the “same set of talking points” and mostly replying to tweets about news related to Russia and Ukraine or pro-Ukrainian channels. X did not immediately respond to WIRED’s request for comment.

On July 14, the Antibot4Navalny researcher says, some of the accounts they have tracked replied to posts discussing comments from Putin, who said that the Wagner Group “does not exist” and that there is no legal basis for the group. The accounts, the researcher says, sent messages saying that Wagner operated legally and referenced Concord, the catering company owned by Prigozhin. The Antibot4Navalny researcher claims that the points were not included in any Kremlin-controlled media and that mentions of the company “served interests of the troll factory/its owner—rather than interests of the Kremlin.”

Buziashvili, the Atlantic Council researcher, says she believes the troll factory is still operating. “Part of them might be still supporting Prigozhin,” she says. “For most of the people who were working there, they would just continue their work regardless of who is their current boss.”

Following the plane crash, Buziashvili says, Russian officials and state media pushed multiple “theories” simultaneously. On one TV show, both the UK and NATO were blamed for the plane crash, she says. Other instances blame Ukraine and claim that Prigozhin was not killed in the crash. Pro-Wagner Telegram channels were also pushing claims that the plane was shot down by Russian aviation, Buziashvili says, and that they wanted “revenge.” Nobody has formally claimed responsibility for the explosion—both Putin and Ukraine have denied involvement.

Despite the changing information ecosystem, the amount of Russian disinformation on social media is colossal. During the first year after it launched the war in Ukraine, Russia’s disinformation reached an audience of “at least” 165 million and generated 16 billion views across Facebook, Instagram, Twitter/X, YouTube, TikTok, and Telegram, according to a European Commission study of Russia-linked activity published last week. Subscribers to pro-Kremlin Telegram channels have “more than tripled” since the start of the war, the report says. “Preliminary analysis suggests that the reach and influence of Kremlin-backed accounts has grown further in the first half of 2023, driven in particular by the dismantling of Twitter’s safety standards.”

“What we typically see these days is narratives formulated on Telegram,” says Logically’s Walter. The company has recently found pro-Russian channels pushing disinformation about Niger’s military coup, and it has also linked a Russian fact-checking website and Telegram account to a presenter on Russia’s “biggest” propaganda TV show. “You have Western influencers who are sympathetic to Russian causes that will translate those narratives and then share them on mainstream platforms. And they circulate more broadly,” he says.

Walter says that over time, and largely because of the war, it has become easier for Russian propaganda and disinformation to attack the West. “From a tactics perspective, there’s a lot less direct involvement that we can attribute from the Russian state itself, and it is more these proxies,” he says. “Russian disinformation efforts are gradually adapting to any sort of Western countering that gets put in place.”

[redrascal1]

Sadly, yes.

I loved Rey's character right up till the end of TLJ; I really didn't like how they had Ben on his knees before her - imagine the furore if it'd been the other way around.

But, their relationship could so easily have been salvaged. The possibility that they might both be forced to leave their respective 'communities' still existed - the predatory look on Hux's face at the end, revealing that he obviously intended to try and oust the new Supreme Leader, the fact that Rey still barely knew the Resistance - how would they react to the knowledge that she'd willingly gone to Ben's side - all of that hinted that they had a lot of unfinished business left.

But TROS erased all the plot and character development of TLJ.

I still find it hard to accept that they ended a forty year nine film saga the way they did. I am still stunned also that many fans actually seem to be fine with it.

I was banned from the JCF because apparently mentioning Ben in a Finn thread is racist.

I chose to leave the Star Wars Cantina forums, ironically over a similar thing. We were discussing The Acolyte, the subject turned to Amandla Stenberg making a music video dissing white supremacy and I said this: 'her dad's white'.

One of the posters responded by calling me a 'thick obtuse insensitive racist' then proceeded to lecture me on my lack of respect for Juneteenth. I'd like to point out that the poster is also white and that as a British citizen I didn't know what Juneteenth was.

As the mods apparently were willing to allow him to personally attack my character and insult me I left the forum immediately. He got a lot of upvotes afterwards which only left me convinced I'd done the right thing.

I believe that those in charge of Disney wanted to erase the Skywalker dynasty in order to start afresh with new characters. They also, it seems now, didn't want Rey to find love and to completely dedicate herself to being an 'old school' Jedi. This has been 'hammered home' with the forthcoming Rey movie (if it ever will be made). As we have speculated so many times before, they have a 'women do not need men' attitude.

Which is very ironic as a lot of the posters on the forums want Finn/Rey, and I very much doubt this will happen either.

I no longer have contact with SW fans online except reylos....and sadly many of those are bowing out and deactivating their tumblr accounts. We have been robbed of something that could have been great. And I'm still bitter about it.

I mean, I’m still glad it was flat out stated that Ben fell in love with Rey because there were people still insisting he only wanted her power or that there was never anything romantic between them, but I get what you’re saying. We have more evidence, I think, of his feelings for her than of her feelings for him. I think it would change things up a bit to have actual concrete canon evidence of those feelings being mutual.

Sure, of course people are happy to hear it. I don't think it's new information at all, and it's honestly weird to me that some people act like it is, but it's nice to actually get recognition of your canon pairing after all the bullshit we've been through. It's the rock bottom bare minimum, but DLF hasn't been clearing that bar for a long time, so it feels like a win.

I think it's 100% clear that Rey, the actual character, loves Ben and desperately wants to be with him, but Rey the actual character was taken out back and shot so DLF could have their SWCU brand avatar. I don't hold tros against the Rey of the first two films or her potential, just like I don't allow tros to ruin Luke and Leia for me. I'm not taking that shit on board because it was a bunch of incoherent nonsense which fundamentally destroyed the entire narrative and thematic heart of SW.

We don't have a declaration from Rey, but she showed us where her heart was by leaping into the lion's den with zero back up or exit strategy. She threw her life down at Ben's feet knowing that her life represented one of the last hopes for the galaxy. She believed in him that strongly. She wanted him that badly.

And, you know, despite the absolute shit show of tros, the actors managed to deliver us a perfect moment based solely on the emotional continuity from TLJ without any scripted dialogue to fuck it up. Her face when she wakes up in his arms. Her kiss. He is the home she's yearned for all her life.

If people can't understand that means she loves him, that's a them problem.

And yeah, it would be great if DLF would acknowledge this incredibly obvious and well-established fact of the ST in words, it'd be nice to have more ammunition because at this point we've earned being petty, but I don't think it would change anything. They literally kissed on the mouth for longer than any other couple in all of SW and antis were blind suddenly, they couldn't see. We get 'kiss of gratitude' and 'but isn't that incest tho' ludicrous copes to this day.

No amount of validation from DLF is going to move the needle for the entrenched doofus brigade in this fandom. Ep IX was the crucial moment which would have vindicated the story and brought the audience together (not that it would ever have won over some people, but you know) and they whiffed that. Even in the shitty, nonsensical execution of tros, we saw the microcosm of what the ST's RotJ would have done. So many people finally 'got' Ben just from two minutes without dialogue, imagine if the movie had been coherent and had had the ending the narrative needed and promised.

But yeah, anyway. I expect nothing from DLF and I don't think anything they could do will ever make much difference now. The canon is already broken and can't be fixed without just redoing ep IX, which would never happen. The audience and the GFFA are both fractured beyond repair.

[reylo-ruffles]

I've seen it and I have hope.

Why wouldn't Ben be a force ghost? They mention the force transference thing a few times. Surely that's not just so Palpatine can be resurrected fully. Ben disappeared at the same time as Leia who already knew her Jedi path would end when her son died. She had already died before him but her body didn't disappear until he died then it happened simultaneously. So she was already dead but she had one last thing to do for him.

Force transference.

I believe in that moment she saved him. He's stuck somewhere to heal but he can be resurrected.

When she disappears Maz Kanata is stood right there and smiles. Maz is the one in TFA who mentions about Ben being brought back.

Leia somehow protected him with her last Jedi act. Rey is the one who can bring him back fully.

[hydrangeyes]

Cloud Meadow Ramblings #1

bare with me guys, I am about to start a writing series to get the research nut in my brain out.

I'm speculating two possibly 3 4 theories all at once

Spoilers Obviously

----------

So I find it kind of find the whole Wizard deal interesting, but for the moment I will only be talking about Giev, Garst, and the supposed passing of Tro.

Look Tro's passing has been itching a part of my brain because with everything that is going on before and after, It seems very likely that Garst is Trov, but Trov before he became a wizard.

I could be absolutely misremembering shit, but isn't their dialogue where it is said a wizard goes about building parts of themselves to even become a wizard, their brand of magic and their technological skills granting them these titles?

Running with this idea, I would think all wizards only know each other AFTER they've made such drastic modifications to themselves, as well as overall their design (or honestly what we see of Giev and Tro's dead body), they overall look fairly covered up to begin with.

With the exception of Giev's hand which! is the same hue as Garst.

Garst who we only obtain after finding Tro's body and re-finding the echostone. Okay so here's my general point.

either:

A) Garst is Tro but pre wizard-fication

B) Garst is the ghost voice Tro heard before their death (the one that sounded so different from the previous ghost voice he thought was a fellow wizard)

C) Garst IS that previous ghost voice, having' taken Tro's body/aspects of it but due to well everything, the conversion went wrong (causing memory loss)

D) Garst was an experiment Tro was working on the side to give said voice their own body (This in itself can go two ways where Tro was conscious of doing this, or did the voice possess them into creating the body for them)

Either way the whole situation with Tro just doesn't add up in more ways than one (Like, did the fossil influence Tro, working with his guilt, to create so many G.E.X???? why did he make SO many rather than at most 4? or something rather than enough that can clearly overwhelm him given that the experiment WAS successful, had yet to be tested if THEY could be trusted. A whole nature vs nurture situation here. ANYWAY, what was up with the more alien looking one you can release? where do they fit in all of this???)

[raw-untamed]

You’ll turn. I’ll help you. 

I saw something too. I know that when the time comes, you’ll be the one to turn. 

[nashthelime]

Honestly the whole thing is super messed up because the OG little mermaid is a Danish tale

But disney designed the sea inspired by more tropical and Mediterranean zones, the octo tro mentioned that during winter the waters becomes too cold and ice forms so it's difficult to move and that they prefer going home during spring break instead

Even just the name Coral Sea is an actual Sea within Australian waters and they do have the Great Barrier Reef which fits the marine animals that we see in the little mermaid

And I'm pretty sure those Seas cannot freeze into ice, but don't quote me on that

Here's an official map of Twsited wonderland

We know from the game that the "mermaid princess" married a prince from the Sunshine lands

And we see in the game that the Coral Sea in the game fits the vibe we have the little mermaid movie as well

So it's safe to assume that they follow more Mediterranean sea more than anything really because in the little mermaid Prince Eric's country seems to be inspired from Italian and eastern France

Honestly i don't know I'm saying at this point

I'm just throwing everything at the wall hoping something will fit

I guess there can be magical super cold wind patterns that hit the Coral Sea during winter so that ice forms lol

Although all this speculation is fun, I also like that everything isn't too defined so that we interpret, bend and make up things for our convenience and satisfaction

I'm too busy in my personal life to finish my twst OC drawings OR to finish the lore of twst itself so y'all are just gonna need to listen to my mad-man ramblings that might even have a canon explanation.

So, I'm thinking that.

Is there possibly mermaid racism in twst?

There seems to be a very huge divide between how mermaids in twst look like, with some having more "human" characters in their upper body and some being more "animalistic" over all.

Example: random museum guards vs Floyd or Jade (or even Azul, but he's an octopus so he'd be different either way)

Other than the very drastic contrast in appearance, Floyd and Jade are based on characters that in the original were not even merpeople but talking fish instead.

So, that kinda begs the question, is there two kinds of merpeople? The "original" magical kind, and those who descended from fish the same way beastmen descended from animals?

And if yes, how did that impact their society? I feel like, in the real world and the way we tend to "other" anything different and justify exploitation in any way possible, it'd result in some kinda racism. So that brings me back to my initial question. Yeamh.