#you can hate/love characters and still acknowledge their flaws/complexity

[unpersoniverse]

"I recognize Haytham Kenway is an interesting character with many layers of complexity shaped from his upbringing and perspective of the world" and "I still hate his dead beat colonist ass" are two sentences that should be allowed to coexist in this fandom

[automaticheartcrusade]

As a number 1 Fiddleford Mcgucket lover, I honestly love the fact that journal 3 revealed that he had secretly created the Society of the Blind eye behind Ford’s back and was USING the gun on him multiple times, because it added a new complexity to the character. What he was doing wasn’t morally correct, but he probably felt like he was doing what was best for Stanford since he cared about him so much. Is it a little fucked up? Very much so and that’s what makes Fiddleford’s character even more interesting. You feel SO bad for him, he didn’t deserve anything that happened to him, but more people need to acknowledge his flaws too, specifically his family.

When it was revealed that he had gotten into an argument with his wife because she was upset he forgot to get her a Christmas gift in the Book of Bill, I felt bad for her. We don’t know much about Emma May Mcgucket but I don’t think she’s supposed to be painted in a negative light. Some people hate the mere idea that Fiddleford may have been neglectful to her and his son Tate some point down the line, but I genuinely think that’s what happened, and people shouldn’t villainize his wife or Tate honestly. It was unintentional of course, we know that Fiddleford cared about his family deeply and had a portrait of them when he was working with Ford, but him choosing to pack up and go with Ford for long periods of time probably caused a rift in the family. And yes, there is a tragedy to it, because him forgetting to get his wife a present was probably due to the brain damage the gun had on him. However, both concepts that Fiddleford loved his family but went crazy due to what he witnessed, AND him partly being to blame for his own self destruction with creating the memory gun and getting addicted to it, are statements that can and should coexist. Him getting traumatized wasn’t his fault, but using the memory gun repeatedly and putting the society/work before his family was. Ford definitely had influence, but the point still stands.

And for me that’s part of the appeal for Mcgucket, he didn’t deserve anything that happened to him, he would have been a completely different person had he not taken Ford’s call, he’s pathetic and tragic, made his own mistakes but also got screwed over at life in the process. But he deserved the happy ending he got and I just love this sad old man.

[thesunfyre4446]

i'm really struggling with the way this fandom treats alicent and rhaenyra.

because it's always anti VS pro. it's always "she did nothing wrong!" VS "this is entirely her fault".

and yeah, rhaenyra and alicent did not start the problem. they are DEF 100% not as guilty as viserys.

but y'all are really going to pretend like they "never even wanted to fight?" like they didn't also helped creating this mess?

rhaenyra was beefing with a 2yo, from the second her siblings were born she hated them.

alicent asked for Joffrey, this is def not the "abuse" the antis claim it is, but yeah, she's DEF trying to stir the pot by humiliating rhaenyra. alicent warned aegon that rhaenyra will kill him if she ever became queen. and yes, of course she truly believes that \ has reasons to believe that, but she can't act surprised that her kids grew to hate and fear rhaenyra???

rhaenyra suggested that aemond should be tortured after he was maimed by her sons, and never even considered showing kindness \ apologizing to aemond - who lost his freaking eye!! and yes, she did what she did to protect her kids.

they both had their reasons, but let's not pretend like they were trying to mend the rift & it's all the evil men's fault! like fuck no.

alicent literally raised aegon to take rhaenyra's throne. so her saying that actually, she doesn't want war - IS hypocritical. and i love my girl, but she can DEF be hypocritical and by no means is a perfect angel. and i love her because she's a complex character with actual character flaws.

so no, it doesn't have to be "she's perfect and never did wrong" VS "she's the devil". you can criticize a character and acknowledge their flaws while still loving them.

[miffysoo]

long rant coming up regarding sakura; and to preface, i’m a sakura defender until the day i die, so if you have an issue w her, gtfo and scroll on by 🫶🏼

the amount of hatred this girl got and still gets is so trifling to me. like, i was in the trenches defending her in like 2019-2022. and my love and defense of her reignited bc ive been getting more sakura videos on my tiktok fyp.

now, most of the reasons why people reason they hate sakura is always the same recycled explanations of her being “useless”, too obsessed w sasuke, she’s annoying, and while not a new argument, her confession scene to naruto lying that she loved him being what sparked this post from me in the first place.

i could sit here for days and go on & on about how much of that reasoning is purely rooted in misogyny which isn’t surprising within both the naruto fandom, and anime fandom in general with the amount of brain dead “anime dude bros” unfortunately filling these spaces up.

but in addition to the blatant misogyny of how women are all talked about, displayed, written, and treated within a lot of shounen anime, there just seems to be some kind of mind numbing wall in the minds of sakura haters who simply don’t want to acknowledge her genuine character development. it’s not even complex thinking, people just want to hate her. it’s always been some incessant band wagon to hate her for no real rooted reason. you can dislike her personality, that’s objective at the end of the day, but to say she never changed and developed is what gets me going.

i find her to be the one of the most humane & raw out of the characters. she has flaws yes, but she learns and grows and again, changes!

a lot of it comes down to a lack of understanding, empathy, and just plain old double standards. people shit on her for liking sasuke as if she wasn’t a child. her affections for him carried on in their teens in shippuden, but she had a real purpose. it wasn’t fangirling anymore. but oh when naruto is deadass dreaming about this man, going even crazier & losing his mind over sasuke, it’s okay? like sakura’s the obsessed one? naruto’s even worse 😭 don’t pmo. both of them were willing to do crazy shit for him. but of course it’s wrong when sakura does it.

the useless argument is the in fact, the dumbest one. she’s canonically the strongest kunoichi (argue w a wall atp if you disagree, idc) as is present time. not only did she go on to become one of the pillars of konoha, but her role as a medic ninja is insanely overlooked. which is crazy bc more than half of the cast would be dead if not for her. being useful does not equate to just combat. the only time that argument held true was is in the very first part of naruto when they were all 12 still bc she genuinely was just being saved by naruto & sasuke all the time. but guess what, development happens!!! but so many people hate to admit that for some reason.

now to what brought this whole entire rant to light - her treatment towards naruto is always a reason people antagonize her. a lot of the times i need to remember that a majority of her haters consist of pathetic men, sorry not sorry. they can’t fathom rejection in an appropriate way. they couldn’t handle her rejecting naruto all the time so they resort to shaming her as a woman.

her and naruto have truly experienced everything together; no one really understands how profound sasuke’s absence was to them, and only they understand it. on top of that, their growing friendship in shippuden and unwavering loyalty & support to one another was so prominent. when we talk about her fake confession to naruto, it needs to be understood that it’s not a black and white situation; it was the concept of “doing the wrong things for the right reasons”. her lying to naruto wasn’t right, but she was guilt ridden & emotional. she ultimately tried to protect naruto bc she couldn’t handle watching him self destruct over trying so hard to get sasuke back. she thought it’d stop him. and when he saw through it bc they were both desperate & hurting, she still decided to try to go after sasuke to kill him FOR naruto to ease his burden and heartache. it truly isn’t that complex to see that.

again, you don’t have to agree or like her decision but understanding it isn’t rocket science. it’s crazy how many people lack compassion & empathy towards her as if she wasn’t a literal teenager in the midsts of war. she was acting on emotion bc she was hurting & impulsive. none of the choices sakura & naruto made regarding sasuke were ever based on rationale, are you kidding me. but again to emphasize, they were teens in a war.

at the end of the day, you don’t have to like her character. but the lengths people will go to try and invalidate her development and simply just villainize her to the extent they do is insane as if she wasn’t a 16 year old for a majority of the series. i don’t even see people get this upset over fucking danzo or orochimaru.

but they could never make me hate her.

[theheirofthesharingan]

Do you have an explanation for why Sakura fans can only give points to their fav by bringing down other characters? They're always trashing other characters in an attempt to make Sakura look flawless. I've seen lots of stupid whispers on Pinterest (I advise to stay away from that app as it's dominated by Skuratards and Sasusakutards) I'll give you examples of what I've seen :

1. I swear I've seen them trying to convince this fandom to acknowledge Naruto as the real annoying character of the series. (it must really hurt to have a fav who's constantly called annoying inside and outside of the manga lol)

2. Naruto gets hate for acting like a perv, the beating he gets is justified in their book, but when Sakura says she wanna see Sasuke peeing they suddently turn blind and deaf. (I know it's some kind of japaneese humour but I could never find that shit funny. If the genders were switched and the guy hits the girl we all know no one is gonna laugh at that)

3. Sakura fans who double as Sasusaku haters always blame Sasuke for the terrible writing of that ship. He is called abusive, he's a violent guy, he's an absent father, Sakura deserves better, Sakura is a closted lesbian who should've been with Ino or Hinata, bla bla bla.... (as if it's all not the consequences of her own actions)

4. Hinata... where do I even begin? I'm sure we've all seen Sakura fans desperately trying to pass the 'useless' title to Hinata. No to mention criticizing her for simping over Naruto as if 90% of Sakura's character didn't revolve around Sasuke. BOTH were simps! Yes Sakura did other stuff but she STILL was a simp! And calling her a simp is STILL a fact and one of her biggest flaws!!

5. The 'terrible freind' title. Sasuke gets hate for leaving the village and breaking poor Naruto and Sakura's hearts, but when Sakura ends her freindship with Ino for no damn good reason it's absolutely fine. Her fans love to claim that she did it to grow and become independant wich is really hilarious btw, since when do freinds get in the way of growing and finding one's true self? Lmfao

6. Karin. I've seen A LOT of Sakura fans hating on Karin and trying to pass the 'obssessive' and 'simp' titles to her. Okay, Karin is a freak alright, but again, Sakura has the SAME flaws! She too was obssessed with Sasuke and wouldn't take a no for an answer. Some of them want Karin to become the most hated female in the series so bad it's pathetic. Karin has a deep respect for Sakura and said that she considers her a close freind, and she's still grateful for when Sakura saved her life that day, she also accepted Sasusaku and even helped Sakura safely give bith to Sarada. I thought Sakura fans would really like Karin after all that developpment but nope, I was wrong. They keep spreading the "normalize hating this disgusting mf" everywhere.

7. "Naruto cries too". Now I don't see anything wrong with crying but Naruto always had valid reasons for doing it. Sakura on the other hand cried the most in the series when she had one of the best lives out of the whole cast.

8. "Sakura is hated more than the actual villains of the show." So now we should hate Pain, Madara, Obito, Itachi, Kaguya, ect... and love Sakura just because she wasn't a criminal? Most of the bad guys in series, if not all, were complex and written very beautifully compared to Sakura who's just a boring medic who likes to punch the ground from time to time. How did her existense exactly affect the plot or entertain the viewers? To this day I fail to see what was so interesting about her. She had no story, no backstory, no depth, no philosophy, no arc, no plot twist, no nothing! She just did her job and healed people, why in the world should I be hyping that up?

There are two reasons, in my opinion:

The unreasonable hate she gets from the fandom.

The ship wars.

What Sakura gets isn't criticism. There is criticism too, but a lot of what she gets is mindless hate and being called "useless", when that's not true at all. And if the fandom did care about uselessness it wouldn't be going dewy eyed over Hinata, whose only personality is doing "N- Naruto kun 🥺🥺👉👈" throughout the series. But she doesn't get the same treatment.

So, many of Sakura fans want to get back at the other fans and their favorite characters by showing how she isn't as bad. And many people are just childish and stupid, and don't actually care because they aren't going to have any consequences. So, they abuse this anonymity internet provides them.

The second one is obviously because of the ship wars. SS are canon, and a lot of people dislike the ship for the right reasons. I personally feel shippers don't care for logic or reason as long as they can justify their ship.

If anyone threatens their ship, they become defensive and aggressive towards them. Characters like Karin are seen as a threat to SS (imo). Hinata is probably hated because she is a bland character but still gets a pass while Sakura gets hate.

All of it is stupid, because you see this toxicity only if you're not a part of the ship wars. You'll find all the fanbases hypocritical, some more than the others.

I absolutely agree with you on the "Villains get love and Sakura gets hate" though, because I don't love those villains because I agree with their morals, but because they are interesting to watch. They add things to the story. Something Sakura doesn't do at all.

I would personally love to watch things featuring Madara or Pain than Sakura.

[mot-hesbian]

Marina Crane, Nuance, Human Decency, and Differing Opinions

Let's talk about things that might make people mad on the name of addressing important issues

Let's start with some facts

Facts:

The hate Ruby Barker got is inexcusable. She's a human being and deserves to be treated as such. She has no control over her character and her character's actions overall.

Marina is a nuanced character with an interesting and tragic story. You can hate her and acknowledge this.

Marina is a flawed character who does bad things. You can love her and acknowledge this.

You can love or hate her without taking it out on other people or being disgusting about it. Loving her doesn't give you some moral superiority OR justify her actions. Hating her doesn't give you some moral superiority OR edge.

Some of the hate directed her away is because she's black and if you're one of those people you need to do some introspection.

Now, let's get into the opinion portion of this

Personally, I hate Marina. I don't wish a horrible death on her because that's horrible. I wish her circumstances were better. In fact, had her actions been slightly to the left I'd probably like her. My hate towards her also has nothing to do with racism, unlike some people.

I hate her because I've been on the receiving end of her actions. She's emotionally abusive and does not feel the need to apologize for it. She uses actual abuse tactics, many of which I have been the target of.

I see my abusers in her in those moments, outside of those moments I enjoy her story and character. I would have loved to see her play some Lord looking for a match of convenience. Instead I got to see some scenes that are extremely triggering to me. Marina is a traumatized characters, that doesn't give her the right to add to Colin's trauma.

So many of his actions in s2 and s3 are direct results from this, she traumatized him. This pain and hurt doesn't go away easily, I've been trying for 7 years to move on and I'm still a work in progress.

I don't hate her because she got in the way of my ship (I'm a hardcore polin fan), I don't hate her for existing, or for her situation. I hate Marina because of her actions. She had other choices in gentlemen who were close to her age and might look the other way with regards to a child that wasn't their own. Let's not discuss that topic today, I only mention this in regards to her treatment of Colin and how that choice led to it.

Colin was a romantic and felt an attraction to her, she saw that and took advantage. She singled him out, she was desperate and thought the love of her life had deserted her. Part of her draw to him was his family, both connection wise and, likely, in terms of family dynamic.

She love bombed him. It's that simple. The compliments, laughing at jokes she clearly finds unamusing, and the constant attention.

She manipulated him and his feelings, she's good at playing his thoughts and feelings against him. He wants to be seen as a man and taken seriously. What better way than for him to take a wife? In her obviously. She lets him think it's all his idea. He has a hero-complex so she mentions how horrible the Featheringtons are to her. It's calculated. (Again, if she did this to someone who didn't have feelings for her, I'd be cheering for her to get that bag.)

She isolates him from his family. With a tinge of gaslighting regarding his mother's feelings as Violet wouldn't have opposed their marriage if it made Colin happy. She creates this “us against them" mentality to separate him from his family. The Featheringtons are cruel to her and his family does not approve, there is no way this could work.

Does any of this justify hating on people who love her character? No.

Does this justify hating on the actress who played her? Absolutely not, she's not her character.

Until next time 🫡

[athenanfaymont]

On Growth, Craft, and the Right to Say: Yes, Sarah J. Maas Got Better ✍️📚

After I posted about Tamlin’s villain arc — or more precisely, the lack of one — I got a lot of responses. Some were supportive (thank you! 💖), and others were… let’s say passionate in their disagreement. So I thought it was only fair to clarify something:

Yes. I do think Sarah J. Maas improves her writing significantly as her books go on.

And no. That doesn’t mean I hate her or her work — quite the opposite.

🌱 Let’s start at the beginning. A Court of Thorns and Roses is a decent book. Enjoyable, romantic, intriguing enough to keep you turning the pages. But let’s be honest: the character development is inconsistent, the pacing shaky, and the prose is a little flat. The book is structured almost entirely around two major events (Feyre entering the fae world, and Under the Mountain), and everything in between feels like it’s still trying to figure itself out. There is a clear intention to create mystery when she is alone in the palace, but the author is unable to achieve it.

If you don't believe this, read it again and you'll see the HUGE difference in pacing, depth, and intention once the Under the Mountain arc begins. The improvement in the writing and plot is clearly evident.

✨ Fast forward to A Court of Mist and Fury, and suddenly you have layers. Inner monologues that actually hold weight. Character decisions that carry consequence. Trauma handled with more subtlety. Useful dialogue. And writing — actual writing — that feels more fluid, vivid, and intentional. 🌊💫

🧱 By A Court of Silver Flames, we’re deep into themes of mental health, recovery, shame, and desire with a complexity that would’ve felt impossible in the first book. We get to Nesta's arc because Maas is already capable of writing something with that complexity. Before, when she tried (and I have to go back to Tamlin), she wasn’t able to.

This isn’t slander. This is growth. You can love a series and still acknowledge its early flaws. You can be grateful for what it gave you and still wish it had been tighter, smarter, deeper from the beginning.

🌟 SJM didn’t start as a literary genius — few authors do. But what matters is that she got better, that her books are now of higher quality, and that we can enjoy them more fully.

And that’s something to appreciate. 💜📖

[serfergs]

Why I’m having the most fun with DFF (spoiler free)

I know a lot of people probably dropped DFF after episode 2 or 3 so I feel compelled to write about how much I’m enjoying it. I am not typically a horror/slasher girlie (much to my partner’s chagrin 😬), but I found the characters mysterious enough to hold out for the story and romantic elements, plus I can tell the actors are having a lot of fun with the slasher parts so it makes it more enjoyable for me personally. And I think the show is doing a great job rewarding the audience for our patience considering it was marketed as a BL.

The thing that keeps me coming back is the slow reveal of the backstory and the little tickling of my brain when I think about how the different characters are complicit in Non's suffering and why he or those that care about him would want revenge. I also think this show stands out because it has just enough of a BL subplot to pull me in and then keep me with all the poor decisions of these very flawed characters.

Everyone watching can probably attest to how much we as an audience are loving hating these characters. All of these boys are written with distinct personalities and motives in both being a part of this "friend" group and contributing to the fate of our main boy Non. Even Non is not without his flaws. I think Barcode is doing a great job embodying a queer high school boy living in poverty, struggling with his mental health, and choosing to tolerate intense bullying and manipulation in the slight hopes he'll eventually be accepted and welcomed in this shitty boy group. Meanwhile all the characters within the group are revealing so much about their priorities and how they push down a lot of their feelings and convictions for the sake of not stirring the pot (aka Por). I find Tee and Jin especially compelling considering Tee's parallels to Non with feeling trapped in poverty and debt and Jin's parallels to Non with being so desperate to be accepted and how that ties in to their queer identities.

There's also so much going on with classism, coercion, and police corruption which are elements and themes that recent BL have attempted to tackle and in a lot of ways I think DFF is doing a much better job in both narrative integration and execution. All this being said, I also think it's important to remember this is only Be On Cloud's second BL and I think they're hitting it out of the park in terms of pushing the genre forward and challenging some of the tired settings and tropes still being shoved down our throats with repetitive, formulaic, and often rushed and incoherent narratives (I'm looking at you GMMTV). So, if you gave up early on, I encourage you to give it another try. Even if you gotta 2x speed or completely skip some of the more gruesome scenes. If for no other reason than to acknowledge and give credit to BOC for progressing our beloved genre forward.

TLDR;

DFF is out here delivering a really complex, nuanced, and satisfying narrative with queer characters and if you gave up early I implore you to pick it back up even if you gotta skip some of the slasher scenes. I promise it's worth it!

[puppiekit]

To celebrate my Lion au post, here are some notes / hcs:

Lionblaze, Jayfeather, and Hollyleaf all have arcs that tackle different themes throughout the arc.

Jayfeathers arc tackles the prophecy-oriented side of things. His character changes the least. I do plan to tweak the way time travel works though (it will be more directly connected to their present - day tribe). Will keep up to date in that regard....

Hollyleafs character is, obviously, altered to an extent. She tackles the code-oriented side of things. She does not murder Ashfur, however..:

Hollyleaf is still driven mad by the truth of her heritage. She is angry at Leafpool first and foremost, viewing her as the root of their problem, as Leafpool was the one to break the code by having kits in the first place. She still confesses the truth at the gathering. She does not run into the tunnels, instead, somewhere more far off.....

After Ashfur is murdered, Lionblaze, wracked with guilt, confesses the crime to his siblings. Hollyleaf, blinded by her code-obsessed rage, later exposes the truth of what happened. Brambleclaw covers for him, similar to how Bramble covered Holly in the books.

Lionblazes character is altered the most (no surprise there). Lionblaze tackles the family-oriented side of things. He is very close to his parents, and you can see most of their drama / conflict through his perspective.

Lionblaze is a character who is simultaneously well-meaning, impulsive, and a bit self-focused. Similar to his grandfather he cares greatly for doing the right thing, even if it means breaking the code (much to Holly's disdain). However, what differs the two is Lionblazes hyper-awareness over his own reputation. Firestar is a cat who will do the right thing, no matter the slack he gets for it, no matter the enemies he makes. But Lionblaze is a cat who needs to be liked.

Due to the nature of his power, Lionblaze becomes increasingly insecure and hyper-aware of the cats around him (he views it as an inherent flaw ; a reason for cats NOT to like him). After his run-in with the Dark forest, he grows paranoid of accidentally harming / killing innocent cats. Frequent nightmares. Battle training sometimes induces panic. Bad habit of bringing home half-shredded prey. He wants to be a good cat, he wants to protect his clan and his family -- but his power only leaves him feeling like a monster. A ticking time bomb. All he's good for is doing the most damage possible, and that's scary to him.

Lions dynamic with Ashfur is expanded upon A LOT MORE. Now, in my au their dynamic is a bit of a mixed bag. They have their bad moments, days where Ashfurs resentment seeps through, but its not all bad. If you know the kind, you know -- The type of adult who will yell at you for a simple mistake, beat you down, but then 10 minutes later praise you and take you out for dinner as a treat. Its complex, it's hard to accept it for the toxicity it truly is, because "They're good sometimes, too". Lionblaze acknowledges that Ashfur was mean, but the attachment is still there. They had their good, genuine moments -- so it's hard to accept the fact that his mentor is a horrible person. Could it be? Could the mentor who told him funny stories about his parents, truly hate them that much? He can remember a time Ashfur peered down at him, smiled and said, "You know, Lionpaw, you're kind of like a son to me." In the moment he felt warm, it felt good. Did Ashfur really care for him that much? Now that same memory sends chills rippling through his fur.

Speaking of, Lionblaze is definitely the most attached of the three. He's incredibly close with Squirrelflight and Brambleclaw. When the truth is revealed, he is easily left the most (emotionally) devastated -- but he is also the first to forgive. He feels hurt, angry, betrayed, but he cannot deny the love he feels for his family, and he cannot deny the love they gave to him. It breaks his heart keeping his distance, seeing the hurt in his mothers eyes while he avoids their presence. He can't keep it up for long. Jayfeather, on the other hand, cant bring himself to forgive as quickly. He is a cat who has difficulty accepting vulnerability - he trusted his family, and that trust was betrayed. (Lion definitely has a bad habit of getting involved in his parents arguments later on lol hes emotionally invested)

The big change: Lionblaze kills Ashfur. You would think he does it out of anger, out of hatred, but no... He does it to keep his family safe. He can't let the secret get out. He can't allow Ashfur the opportunity to harm his littermates, his mother, again. Killing him was the only way, and yet, it leaves him with too much grief and guilt to bare. His entire life he shuddered at the idea of another cat dying at his claws. He was a monster, too strong for his own good, and killing would be nothing more than proof of that. It isn't long before it becomes too much to bare, and he confesses to his littermates. The grief, most of all, is what catches him by surprise. Ashfur was awful, he tried to kill Lionblaze and his littermates! It was wrong to feel this grief, wasn't it? But it isnt long before Lion realizes he wasnt grieving over Ashfur - he was grieving over who he thought Ashfur was; not only his mentor, but a tom who cared for him, despite the short attitude. Not only is his heritage, his upbringing a lie - but so is the very nature of his entire apprenticeship. It is a lot for him to handle.

[eversleepings]

disclaimer: i love kel omori

was talking to juno (hi juno!!!!!!!!) last night about something or other and i got on the topic of kel. and i thought about him.

i generally like the interpretation that he's accepted mari's death.

i know some people like to make it so that he hasn't, that he's faking a smile, but i truly believe he did. mostly because my idea of acceptance =/= never grieving. i still think kel is grieving, but he's accepted that mari's dead, and he's accepted how mari died, and maybe he's accepted that there was nothing he (a 12 year old at the time) could've done to help her (or what he thought was happening).

tl;dr: kel is complex (but not in the way most people think) and i would like to read more flawed kel please. a scrap for the desperate.

this is, obviously, a stark difference from the rest of the cast. sunny is directly in denial of her death, and in the first few days, convinces himself she's just in college. aubrey doesn't directly deny her death, but she seemingly is unable to accept that mari would kill herself - and hero moves from being unable to accept mari's death as a whole to accepting her death, and that she killed herself, but not that he couldn't have helped, and not that he isn't at fault (again, all theories)

so kel accepted mari's death. seemingly, this is where most misunderstandings come from over the game. what i want to talk about is one of the bigger ones: (apologies for the bad photo quality)

[in case you can't see - KEL: You know, MARI would be really sad to hear that...]

THIS scene right here.

this is also the scene where aubrey drops the bomb that mari is dead. The "It Means Everything" scene. one of the most iconic scenes in the game. but I never see anyone ever talking about this line of dialogue from Kel and one of his earlier ones, where he brings up how they used to be friends.

kel throwing mari's death in aubrey's face and i don't even think he meant to do it.

he truly believes that because they used to be friends, aubrey should listen to him. he truly believes, and is probably right, that mari doesn't want them to fight. but he throws her (seeming) suicide in aubrey's face in order to try and get her to see things his way, and stop bullying basil, and she lashes out, resulting in the following fight.

i see lots of interpretations where kel is knocking on sunny's door for 4 years. if that's the case, why didn't he talk to aubrey? since we have no knowledge of the 4 years, we can only assume that either 1. he did, and was rebuked (likely if he was 'too late'), or 2. he didn't, period, for whatever reason.

and the thing is, i didn't even like aubrey when i first played omori. i thought she was annoying and a bully, and i thought her "redemption" was underwhelming and rushed, and i hated it. i've gotten over it now but we are framed to see (rightfully) that aubrey is in the wrong - allowing us to ignore kel's part in this.

the game establishes aubrey as an enemy pretty quick. she fights you in her first scene, her hooligang are the obstacles for most of your tasks on the first day, she stole something from basil (someone you likely have an emotional connection to via. headspace, and sunny as our pov character has a connection to) and she's bullying him. the only other people we fight in the rw are all imaginary.

kel is our deurotagonist (secondary protag) for the real world. he's our guiding light, the rock in the shore. he must be right because we have to be right. and he generally is!

it is wrong to steal and bully from basil. and aubrey is in the wrong to attack us. but, while not an excuse, kel hurts her emotionally, and doesn't even apologize or acknowledge it - and this is likely why despite kel's seeming social prowess, it's hero (a neutral third party, who always has deescalated their arguments) who has to step in to stop their feud.

kel tries to get aubrey to see how he feels, and in doing so, says some of the most hurtful shit on the planet. so aubrey says it right back. this is the fundamental misunderstanding that separates them, even though they seemed really close, despite their arguing, as kids.

i just think kel is pretty complex, but not in the way people think he is (the earlier mentioned fake smile stuff). i think he also has his flaws, like the rest of the cast (minus mari and hero) that we miss because we're so focused on aubrey here (esp since her reaction afterwards is again, really iconic) and i wanted to share my thoughts.

also made this post because i want more flawed kel please. please give us more fucked up kel thanks xoxo

[blurredfloweryblood]

should i be paying attention in class??? yeah, but i can't get the Mabel hate out of my head.

Right now it's not as strong as it used to be, back when the gravity falls was airing, and also when it ended.

People literally hated her for being a girl. Like, a genuinely weird girl, and because she didn't fit in the limited box of the "weird" (but not actually) aesthetic, not only they rejected her whole character, but also failed to see her complexities and wonderful representation of another face of the coming of age plot.

1. I've seen people calling her selfish. That Dipper is doing things for her all the time. And come on people, everyone in the show is selfish sometimes. Mabel did a lot of things for Dipper as well, and the only way (sad btw) is listing selfish things that Dipper has done.

And I wish I didn't have to do that to make people understand that being selfish sometimes isn't really wrong or a horrible act. Allowing characters to have flaws and moments like these, round them out, giving them depth and allowing us to peer beyond their original characterization.

Also, it reeks that people can't handle actual female characters that are varied and unlikeable and yet beloved. You hate Mabel for being selfish ONE time? it really does shows how little people care for actual development. Do you just wanted her to be a prop for Dipper? She's her own person. She has a distinct personality that grows throughout the story.

2. The Cool-Dipper (rift) situation

She was just betrayed. Mabel lives in fear of being abandoned and being left behind, something hinted by her own coming of age story. Wanting summer to last forever is also her wanting to stay right where she is, when people won't leave her, where she doesn't have to worry about catching up and running behind of the ones she loves. When she can stay herself a little more. Just a little more.

Her being aware of her own short childhood is her acknowledging that she will have to cut down her own self in the future. Not only afraid of who she will be, or what she will leave behind, but also the fear that she won't be accepted as who she is, if she is still herself.

It is a wonderful contrast to Dipper's search for maturity, depending on authority figures to approve for him, showing that he is not a kid, and capable of catching what life throws at him.

Also, with the cool dipper thing. for fuck's sake, she had just listened to her brother basically telling her that she can't stay! that someone has to go, and it has to be her. that she has to leave and get away from her friends, waffles, her grunkle, soos, wendy AND her brother.

she got thrown right into her deepest fear. her brother was leaving her alone. he was taking her summer and throwing it out the window. they were becoming like Stanley and Stanford.

ALSO, she gave the rift to someone she trusted. She was deceived people. Bill used one person of her social circle and manipulated her.

He kept her in a psychological nightmare of a prison. Chaos all the time. HIS version of chaos. That's why it's so uncanny, using her imagination against herself, is twisted, and genius. Of course she'd never want to leave.

The Cool Dipper thing, is, to my opinion, the resentment she feels towards her brother. The anger is fresh, not allowing itself to be solved due to her being permanently stuck in a cycle of "fun", making her lose herself within her own mind.

She is angry that he was going to leave her. that he was going to let her leave. that version of Dipper would never leave her. Because that version understood her. She wasn't trying to replace him, she's just angry. God forbid a girl is angry and tired and exhausted and just an actual character.

It just shows how much people actually don't want complex female characters. Especially when it comes to teenage girls or younger. You want them to be selfless, little lambs all the time? Why can't Mabel bite back, get angry, do irrational decisions? Why can't she just want summer to last a little longer, like boys, have glitter everywhere?

She is a shooting star. She burns. She is what you're waiting for. Hoping for. She is aware that she is fleeting, and her journey is fast, that her trail won't last. She is aware of it. And still decides to shine bright.

She is chaotic, and colorful and funny.

Let her be herself you hooligans

[just-sp-in-inginthevoid]

Hello. I am wondering why you start liking Takeomi. He is the most hated character by the fandom and your choice of wet soggy cat is very unique. I want to listen your ramblings.

Oh anon, if only I knew

I'll try to remember how it happened, that much I think I got it.

So, when I first got into TR, my mind mostly focused on Mitsuya and the Shiba (mostly Taiju), so much so that I ended up writing a lot more than I thought I ever will on Taiju and explaining where his behavior comes from

Because it seems like a lot of people missed some important information. And by doing that I was able to show them details they had missed (prove that I was right in previous posts where I didn't justified myself and basically got called a liar by someone in the notes which incredibly pissed me off-) and, although that doesn't excuse what Taiju did, it does explain it and makes him more.. real? Maybe not relatable, but his domestic abuse didn't pop up out of nowhere and a lot of people know what intergenerational trauma can do so while still hating Taiju they could understand him better.

Then, having finished my Taiju analysis which also opened my eyes since I found more than what I initially thought about; I myself was able to understand him better and so I thought-

Why not do that with every hated characters in the fandom?

I don't quite recall if my (at the time, very slight) interest in Takeomi happened a bit before or at that time, but the reason why I focused on him before the others (which, uh, aren't a lot anyway) was because I saw stuffs written about him which I didn't really agree with? Like, yeah, he was flawed and raised his siblings badly - especially when next to Shinichiro who was (at least depicted as)(and try to be) good at it - but they were kinda amplifying things

I know that a lot of people relate to Sanzu, or just, love him, and since they saw things I haven't seen, I told myself 'well, let's investigate, then' and then I wrote about 17k words on Takeomi's psychology.

I literally walked myself into the Takeomi rabbit-hole (what a FUCKING mistake /positive)

Takeomi did neglect his siblings, and passive-aggressively verbally, or even emotionally, abused Sanzu and for most of the fandom, is not attractive (and, let's not lie, beauty is a redeeming quality for a lot of characters regardless of fandom. How many characters, no matter their faults, get forgiven by fans just because they're hot, uh?). So he sucks, yeah

You know what he did do? acknowledged his mistakes, apologized for them and would have started his redemption arc if Wakui had had the time for that when warping up the story

He made mistakes, he's flawed, he's human, he wasn't even supposed to be here because he only entered the delinquent world to keep following Shinichiro, his ego which was back then very weak and non-existent got inflated for either survival or because he received so many compliments he didn't know what to do with it if not both because he was a k i d.

Most of the characters in TR are kids or young adults when they commit things they shouldn't have done. And yes, you can hold them accountable for it but they didn't know better - they didn't have the tools to

Now, why do I like Takeomi.

First of all - the amount of flaws he has. Don't think I need to make the list, I think everyone's got it (although make sure to remember he's got an inferiority complex and it's most likely that he also has an imposter syndrome so he's just like me fr-). But even with that, he's never an antagonist. He does things wrong but he's on our side (he's just very deaf to anyone's opinion that doesn't fit his). He sucked at raising his siblings as a kid himself (before his superiority complex developed and during it too - albeit in different ways) but that's just.. realistic? Not that it takes away the seriousness of it and the consequences, but how else could it have been? The impact on Sanzu were disastrous (not that they were the only reason why Sanzu lost it), I understand that, I don't erase that nor deny it BUT THERE'S A REASON WHY TAKEOMI IS LIKE THIS, TOO. And if people blame Takeomi for his actions (which, again, fair.) then blame Sanzu for his!! he was willing to mass murder hundreds of people!!! including his sister!!! he killed a few people!! argh. But Sanzu got his tragic-backstory/childhood shown and has a design that appeals to most, so I guess it's harder to hold him accountable for the seriousness of his actions (I like Sanzu, don't get me wrong. But sometimes the hypocrisy of some fans makes me a tiny bit angry 🙃)

Anyway, reason 84123286 of why I need Takeomi's backstory. Bc, honestly, from what we know of him as a kid+his coping mechanisms as a teen/adult, it would make sense to me if one of the reason he was so hostile to Sanzu was because he saw himself in him and Didn't Like ItTM (for different reasons) (!!! Which would add nicely to Shinichiro seeing himself in Mikey!!! more sano-akashi parallels, lets goooooooo) Talking about the parallels between the two, the fact he's Shinichiro's narrative foil compels me lots. Takeomi is quite literally Shinichiro with a negative filter on. And how can he survived that? How can he cope with the fact that no matter how much he wants and tries to be Shinichiro he'd never succeed? He'd always be the pale copy, the wood statue covered with golden leaves that are peeling away with time next to the pure gold statue. The Teru Teru Bozu that fails to chase the rain away and is going to be decapitated for his ineptitude. He'd always be himself and that's what he hates the most. He'd always be compared to Shinichiro and there's nothing he can do about it. And he can't even be angry at Shinichiro. That's his best friend. He loves him. He has been the first to love him. He has been there before anyone else. He can't lose Shinichiro, Shinichiro gave him everything. Everything he cares about, he sees value of, at least. Immaculate.

I'll also die on the hill that he is competent. He himself has no idea on what but he is (he mixes everything. For him it'd go like this: he gets praised but he's done nothing, Shinichiro has done everything which means they praised him for what Shinichiro has done. Which means what Shinichiro do, he does too. Which means Shinichiro's achievements are his as well! right? He didn't do anything by himself, there's no need to praise him for something else.)(he's fully blind that strategically-speaking and in other brainy-brain domains he's competent af. Bc since it comes 'easily' to him - since he doesn't struggle much with it, or in contrary he struggles so much he cannot possibly be good at it, then there's nothing to praise. And like, for him what Shinichiro does deserve to be praised. What he himself does is just.. things he does so compliments feel shallow)(+Bonten strives as much as Bad Toman and Manila if not more, yet there's no Kisaki. Ofc there's still Koko so that helps, but Takeomi is new to the team and got recruited (at least that what Senju said) in Brahman for his ~wisdom~)

He's also the only character who was around before Shinichiro 1) became a big brother 2) became a delinquent and that has to mean something. They're the only ones left to remember how the other was before their life went to shit

In the final timeline, he looks so healthy. He made peace with himself, his relationship with his siblings is good, he made amends. He healed, they healed. His relationship with Shinichiro, Benkei and Wakasa is good too everything's great. He learnt to understand what he is competent in and focus on it; he's not Shinichiro, he'll never be and that's okay. He's him and what he is complete Shinichiro just as Shinichiro complete him – they take care of one another's flaws but can also know live independently from each other. Perhaps, perhaps Takeomi stopped being so dependent of him

Appearance-wise, I love dark hair+green eyes combo in general so it wasn't that hard (plus there are some godly fanarts out there)

And of course: despite his complexity, at the end of the day - he's really just a pathetic wet poor excuse of a man who can't do anything right and isn't that endearing

I'm slowly getting out of the denial-phase to enter my acceptance-phase when it comes to loving Takeomi. Liking things most people hate or are neutral about is smth I hate for Reasons but it also seems to always happen lolololol. Will try to talk more about Takeomi when it comes to my mind, in case ppl who also love him but don't want to make it known because of his bad reputation in the fandom saw my posts and feel a bit more okay and comfortable with loving him

[porkcutletbowl44]

Brain surgery time.

this will contain spoilers for Far From Perfect if you are not caught up to the latest chapter, proceed with caution

This is a very indepth explanation of Simon's character in the fic and his entire influence and role.

This is a whole lot of yapping. I mean that, there's yapping about everything that revolves around Simon and a very deep dive about his character. So, if you don't wanna get into Simon's brain, just don't read. If you wanna yap about other characters and their flaws? Pop in my ask box. (Warning, dark topics are mentioned.)

----

I have never tried to write stuff like this before, and the mixed feedback has my brain hurting so much to try and fully capture and describe the train wreck going on in Simon's head.

I wanted to portray things that are never acknowledged, and how this literally does affect relationships. And what's a better way to do that than have Simon being the perfect candidate?

Simon's character is much more complex than his normally written personality, which is still somewhat kept in the fic. I struggle sometimes, because I have to stop and think what would Simon do, rather than a person with a healthy mindset about relationships think.

It was easier to write the pulling away part, commitment issues can exist while staying faithful, and that is very often self destructive behavior with a unfair reason "Oh, they would of left me anyways. This way, I won't get hurt." Or, "They won't get hurt because of me and my flaws."

Because yeah, Simon would distance himself for the safety of people he cares about.

But falling in love? That's tricky. I have lots of Simon memories back when everything was fine while in the present, he was very cold and and closed off, trying his hardest to get mama to hate him and not want to speak to him.

Why? Because (some, i.e. me) with abandonment issues push people away before either party get too close, get too personal (yes, this also brings in trust issues but i wouldn't go as far as SEVERE trust issues, more like having difficulty explaining these issues and/or emotions.) And yes, Simon thrives on a heavy mutual trust foundation.

Simon is a character that leans more towards practical, simple straight to the point actions. What would he know about relationships past the basic respect and care stuff? Respecting wishes and being a decent partner? Little to nothing after that.

He obviously told mama about his past, hense on their honeymoon she was very careful (and a side note I will say she was very careful and patient with him after learning everything) and he was generally honest about everything.

Why the change?

Simple, because how many people feel what Simon feels? Who ever talks about the part after being with someone for so long? Who talks about anything that's never mentioned?

I've been present for a lot of messy relationships, I've seen some crazy shit, I've helped some crazy shit, I've had to be in the middle of two people getting a divorce and let me tell you Simon and Mama's relationship isnt even the tip of the iceberg. The relationship they have as of now is a walk in the park, but that doesn't mean it's okay and healthy.

Simon is a literal nightmare, the worst ex you could ask for because of how terrible he is with everything.

Simon has his original lore; buried alive, torture, hook to the ribs, all his friends are dead, yada yada he's got it all.

Child abuse can cause a lot of different psychological damage: stutter problems, speech impediments in general, dissociative amnesia, anger issues, self harm, trust issues, and a whole list that stretches out twice around my house and shit and he OBVIOUSLY doesn't have these problems.

And obviously, nobody is walking away from that fine and dandy. And even more obviously, Simon had a fuck ton of therapy in order to keep working in the military. A stable mindset is a very high must in his line of work, so he's not suffering from crippling PTSD he just raw dogs it and doesn't let get to him and is generally just pissed about the nightmares coming every once in awhile.

Simon isn't some anxious riddled soldier, he's a professional on the battlefield and a complete new born to the relationship field. LOOK AT HIM, does he really look like he's had a long term stable relationship given everything he's been through? Constantly deployed on dangerous shit, deployed for long times, damn good at what he does, etc. How can someone like him have a long term relationship when all a partner would do is worry and wait around? So 100% his first time of a lot of things with mama in the marriage aspect.

So naturally, I spent hours thinking 'What trauma and emotional flaws could I give him that would stick around no matter what?'

There's some bits of his personality and influences in the games and comics that kinda remind me of teeny tiny bits of BPD at its smallest. So, I figured BPD would be perfect for him in the fic, the mood swings for the jealousy, the guilt, resentment, heart break, and then picking petty fights. Very obviously, Simon is BPD coded for the simple fact of all these changes in his life, and because I believe he would have a form of this disorder since it can be developed and inherited from genetics (his father, the asshole has some screws loose in his head and likely could have gotten it from him.)

But let's dig a little deeper into his head.

Abandonment. He hasn't had many to stay with him, they all die, either because of him or just in the battlefield. His father was abusive, his mom didn't appear to do much about it, then his brothers family was murdered. So yes, Simon is terrified of the thought of losing his love and family.

And feeling the things he felt one day? Yeah, that'd scare the fuck out of anyone feeling that shit for the first time. Imagine thinking that you don't love someone anymore, or vise versa, a normal person would talk about it with their partner, right? Yeah well not Simon.

Simon pushes Mama away, in fear of him getting hurt, or him hurting her.

The first chapter has been deleted and rewritten. So. Many. Times. I couldn't quite figure out how I wanted to play it. I'm a sucker for things that don't make sense. I like to come up with theories, to watch everything play out, to wait and see.

So, that's what I did. The other drafts I had was too straight forward and I felt like wasn't going to capture anyone's attention because I wanted people to think 'Why the fuck is Simon doing this?'

I wanted him complicated. So complicated that it would make so many people mad, why you may ask? Because I wanted people to try and understand what this feels like. Confused, angry that you don't understand. I wanted people to relate to Simon without them knowing. And for a few, I saw that I did. I wanted him extra flawed, make lots of mistakes and act on impulse that result in bad outcomes and then have him figure out how to fix it and come to terms with himself.

I often stress myself in deep thought that maybe I have over complicated this fic. I've over complicated it so much that people who did give it a chance have just kinda dipped because it's too much, there's little information (or a fuck ton) in massive chapters and they only stayed for the romance for Keegan (which I completely understand, I love to write Keegan but I also have ground to cover for Simon too.)

I think maybe some have forgotten this fic is about Simon and Keegan. It's about both of them trying to figure out what's going on. Yes, the fic is kinda about Simon and his feelings, but Keegan also has his own set of struggles, just like mama; fuck it, EVERYONE has struggles at this point.

Simon is a first time father and husband, he makes mistakes, mama makes mistakes, everyone does in the fic. Simon just has a very poor fashion of expressing himself and owning up to it (hence why he's so slow and hesitant to do anything)

Simon is in a way, a villain. He's not a justified one completely, and he's also not a psychopath given he's feeling a lot of guilt and sadness and overall feeling very shitty. Everyone has very different opinions, and I almost think that they are going to change the farther along we go.

I'm sorry if Simon's reasoning is boring. I'm sorry you were hoping for something grand and super seriously shocking and cliche that others would write but I wanted to strive for extremely different. I wanted to do things that people wouldn't even think about.

If I have forgotten anything, let's yap about it. Or, if you wanna yap about other characters, LETS DO IT.

[messymindofmine]

I know that I've talked about this before but this really is something that's been bothering me for so long now. Since the beginning of the show almost. I'm really sick of the hate TK has gotten from the start but even more than that, I'm sick of the hurt that this hate has caused people being ignored/invalidated. Since 1x02, there has been a common refrain of "Carlos deserves better than TK" and literally everything TK does (or doesn't do) is used as evidence against him. I'm also really over the people projecting their dissatisfaction over Carlos's arc this season onto TK. Just admit that you don't like the Iris storyline or the kids storyline without projecting onto the characters. Then again, I guess admitting that would mean having to admit that they actually never really even liked Carlos to begin with either and only acted like they did for as long as they could just blame his flaws and mistakes on others rather than acknowledge that he is a complex character in his own right and is allowed to mess up. It's honestly just plain annoying how so many of the people who've spent years ripping TK apart for every little thing suddenly started acting like they were only upset on his behalf this season with the Iris arc or 4x12 only to then revert back to the usual "TK doesn't love Carlos as much as Carlos loves him" refrain after 4x16. If they weren't mocking him for being "overdramatic" for being scared about the possibility of having Huntingtons, they were criticizing his wedding vows for not being good enough. Or they constantly act like any case of compassion towards TK's mistakes or talking about how he deserves love means we're ignoring Carlos. This has been going on since the start.

Now I'm not saying that there weren't people who weren't genuinely upset on TK's behalf this season nor am I saying that the people who were upset in general aren't valid. In my experience the people in the former groups aren't the ones continuously going on about how Carlos has been ruined for a start. What I am saying is that it's actually very easy to tell who was upset on TK's behalf/who had valid reasons for not liking these storylines and who was just upset that Carlos had fallen off the pedestal they'd put him on. Having watched the show since it first started airing, I actually didn't want to engage with the fandom at first because it felt like all I ever saw were people talking about how much TK sucked. And as someone who identifies with him, that really sucked. Obviously I realized that this attitude is not held by the majority but it still doesn't make it any easier to see this attitude floating around constantly. But what makes it even harder is how often I've had people reach out to me because they feel that their hurt over how TK is treated being ignored or even outright mocked. The fact that even Ronen has picked up on this and made comments about how he feels that people need to remember TK's struggles and how it affects his actions speaks volumes. I'm not trying to be negative, I'm just really exhausted and hurt over how much hate I've seen towards TK over the years and how often it feels like that has gotten swept under the rug. There are people in this fandom that actually deal with things like addiction and mental illness and it's been extremely disheartening to me to see how many have had to step back or leave the fandom altogether over the years because they just couldn't deal with seeing a character they see themselves in be torn apart constantly only for people to act like it's not even happening. The truth is that there is a lot of ableism wrapped up in how TK is often talked about in this fandom and honestly that's why I wasn't surprised at how Iris had been treated because if people can act like this towards a main character, what hope could a side character like Iris have? After all, there are people who seriously think that TK should just be able to make his mental health issues go away so that Carlos would never have to worry. And what these people conveniently don't think about is that Carlos loves TK as he is and would never want him to dismiss his struggles.

Again, I know that this isn't the majority and I know that most people do care but I also feel like this is something that doesn't get talked about as much as it should because real people have been and continue to be hurt by it

[hellsvestibule]

I’m also heavily critical of re:zero fans bc they’re a big portion of what keeps other people from giving the series a chance. Similar to monogatari fans honestly, they often don’t really acknowledge the complexity of the characters and treat it like it’s a show meant exclusively to ingratiate them and so outsiders looking in go “yeah no thanks, this looks like typical 10 cute girls in love w one loser trash” and a lot of them aren’t willing to give it the grace it deserves either

Bc conversely I see a lot of dismissal of Subarus narrative purpose and growth from people who think they’re too good for the show so it’s like, well he still gets nice things every once in a while so it’s still wish fulfillment, even though the show borders on Subaru torture porn to its own detriment sometimes, and it’s usually serving the point of degrading him to the point no one would want to be him even if they Did have a hot maid girl in love w them.

Bc like yeah, Subaru can be annoying and entitled and have angry outbursts he’s an average guy in a fucked up situation and the writing is not at all unaware of his flaws as a person. But you also have to be willing to accept the secondary facet “just because he sucks sometimes doesn’t mean he should be tortured or die over it” which is also something a lot of people who are critical of the show but won’t actually engage with it, don’t get. The show isn’t here exclusively to tell you “this boy sucks and he should die” like yeah no, sorry. It’s not hateful of its genre trappings or intended audience just critical of them. So yes in some facets it’s going to be celebratory of catgirls and moe maids and whatnot bc at the end of the day it is an isekai (of the specific dismissive brand people mean when they say isekai with disgust) with the trappings of a typical isekai it’s just. Doing more interesting things than the average similar isekai setting with them, at least (especially for the time season 1 aired, isekai as a genre has diversified and improved in many ways)

[place-holder-for-witty-username]

They can only love each other as much as they love themselves. they hate the other as they hate themselves. Its not altruistic love, its the complicated destructive relationship an abused child has with itself, reflected outwards towards another person. They don't see each other as a seperate entity. They see each other as a part of themselves, ugly as a human lung but just as necessary to their body to keep living.

I've seen people read the book and "cancel" it because of all the "problematic" content and say "it's not a love story". Like actual puritans who need a morality tale in every work of fiction. Just read the bible if thats what you want, or childrens stories with a helpful moral highlighted and explained at the end. Cathy and heathcliff aren't MEANT to be good people.

Evil, insane, destructive, fucked up, traumatised, co-dependent people EXIST in real life and they do fall in love.

Fiction isn't always a morality tale, its a mirror of reality, meant to help us comprehend real life in a safe way-reading, watching a film. People do not have to be perfect or even Good or for gods sake even not be murdering manipulative bastards to be loved and to love.

True love isn't the purview of the good and pure. Its something anyone can experience because its a HUMAN experience. Cathy and Heathcliff ARE a love story. Thats the whole point.

Another favourite book of mine is dangerous liasons . What happens when truly awful people experience true love? Love doesn't have to be flawless to be genuine, its how the people involved choose to act that makes love a good or a bad thing. We need fucked up complicated and messy relationships in fiction because thats how real life is. But theres a difference between romanticising abuse ie not acknowledging that a story is messed up and glossing over it like how irl abuse is ignored, and refusing to see any worth in a piece of media about flawed characters in a flawed world doing flawed things.

You don't have to be good to be loved and to love. Its how you choose to act on it. Complex people are more interesting to read about and a fucked up love story is STILL a love story. If you have feelings about how a book or film or tv show ended and elements dont sit right with you-lets sit down with a cup of tea and have a chat about why.

what could have been different? Does your discomfort indicate poor writing /handling of complex subject matter on behalf of the author or are you noticing that the icky part of said media is something you've experienced in real life and shouldn't have. Is there a bigger systemic, societal issue that this media feeds into or just reminds you of, and does this need to change in society? How do we do that?

Books, film, tv are all meant to trigger discussion and help us cope with the real world, understand it, and change it. We can't do that if everything is pretty and unproblematic all the time.

ANDREA DWORKIN, ‘Wuthering Heights’ (1987) from Letters from a War Zone