theoldgvard

[theoldgvard]

i understand why a lot of people in the uk/us don’t know about jack london’s book martin eden, but i need to find people who do because i’m so insane.

just reread it for the first time since 2023 in preparation for writing my university dissertation on it and i got through the whole thing (482 pages) in three days. i physically can’t put it down once i pick it up. that book does things to me i cannot explain. it genuinely makes me insane. the best book i may ever read.

[theoldgvard]

Read In Memoriam by Alice Winn today and it has left me with so many feelings, most of them painful, some of them hopeful, all of them aching to draw my new blorbos.

[theoldgvard]

the old guard 2 would be so much better if a third film was guaranteed god i hate netflix

[theoldgvard]

Flying my “Nicky is autistic flag” and taking no notes because the girls who get it, get it.

[theoldgvard]

yall ever think maybe the reason why nicky is so playful with joe this sequel is because he sees joe missing his buddy booker (theyre the ones who always get into shenanigans) and now nicky tries to fill that void.

[theoldgvard]

🦈🦭 The animal version of Cherik in my head

[theoldgvard]

after seeing a great post by @abathroomwallfreshlypaintedover about why nicky and joe feel different in the old guard 2 i haven’t been able to stop thinking about it, especially as it relates to nicky (because he’s my favourite guy ever actually)

i’ve gone into detail (in this post) about how the contrast of nicky’s softness with his deadliness and insane skill is what makes him such a fucking incredible character, and after their post about how the sequel hardened nicky and joe’s edges a bit, leaning more into the traditional masculinity they (especially nicky) never really displayed in the first movie, it just stands out so starkly to me.

yes, queer men can be traditionally masculine! the issue is not that the movie shows queer men who like cars and act like bros and face danger while laughing. it’s that the first movie established that nicky and joe are not those queer men.

in the first movie nicky is consistently soft spoken, and the traits at the forefront of his portrayal are his kindness, compassion and gentleness. that is what the first movie felt most important in establishing who this man was. and while it isn’t an issue to see a sillier, louder side to him, that being the forefront of what we see of him in the sequel feels odd in comparison. the nicky in the first movie wouldn’t laugh at joe’s severed thumb without at least a moment of concern. the nicky and joe of the first movie wouldn’t give two shits about the car they drove (do you seriously think these grandpas are up to speed - pun intended - with all that?). and while I think the argument IS in character, the movie could’ve better emphasised the root of nicky’s upset being joe’s lie rather than booker’s betrayal, and show joe going to great lengths to make nicky see how sorry he is, just as he’d gone to great lengths to let the world know how he loved him. that extra layer of deep compassion and care that characterises everything about them last time felt stripped away.

on my second watch when it got to their little moment and nicky says ‘parla’ i realised that this was the moment it clicked that he felt different during the first half of the film. because i watched this moment and saw the smile he gave nile at the original family dinner. the smile he gave joe when he said meeting him was destiny. i watched nicky ask joe to talk to him and thought ‘there he is. that’s the nicky i knew.’ that’s what made me realise he was missing in the first place (well not missing, more like filtered)

nicolò di genova is not a typical action hero. he’s thoughtful and compassionate and he likes to cook and read. he isn’t hench or unemotional or an asshole. he’s kinda weird and awkward, he doesn’t fill silences or speak without reason and he stares at anything and everything with those big round eyes. he is not a masculine hero in a traditional sense, and this does not compromise his skill and awesomeness.

his softness is his strength. the fact that after so long he can still find the will to be gentle and loving is what makes him so special. that is a choice, that is something that defines him as a person. and while it was still there in pieces, the sequel shifted him more towards a traditional masculinity he has never been shown to align with.

[theoldgvard]

after seeing a great post by @abathroomwallfreshlypaintedover about why nicky and joe feel different in the old guard 2 i haven’t been able to stop thinking about it, especially as it relates to nicky (because he’s my favourite guy ever actually)

i’ve gone into detail (in this post) about how the contrast of nicky’s softness with his deadliness and insane skill is what makes him such a fucking incredible character, and after their post about how the sequel hardened nicky and joe’s edges a bit, leaning more into the traditional masculinity they (especially nicky) never really displayed in the first movie, it just stands out so starkly to me.

yes, queer men can be traditionally masculine! the issue is not that the movie shows queer men who like cars and act like bros and face danger while laughing. it’s that the first movie established that nicky and joe are not those queer men.

in the first movie nicky is consistently soft spoken, and the traits at the forefront of his portrayal are his kindness, compassion and gentleness. that is what the first movie felt most important in establishing who this man was. and while it isn’t an issue to see a sillier, louder side to him, that being the forefront of what we see of him in the sequel feels odd in comparison. the nicky in the first movie wouldn’t laugh at joe’s severed thumb without at least a moment of concern. the nicky and joe of the first movie wouldn’t give two shits about the car they drove (do you seriously think these grandpas are up to speed - pun intended - with all that?). and while I think the argument IS in character, the movie could’ve better emphasised the root of nicky’s upset being joe’s lie rather than booker’s betrayal, and show joe going to great lengths to make nicky see how sorry he is, just as he’d gone to great lengths to let the world know how he loved him. that extra layer of deep compassion and care that characterises everything about them last time felt stripped away.

on my second watch when it got to their little moment and nicky says ‘parla’ i realised that this was the moment it clicked that he felt different during the first half of the film. because i watched this moment and saw the smile he gave nile at the original family dinner. the smile he gave joe when he said meeting him was destiny. i watched nicky ask joe to talk to him and thought ‘there he is. that’s the nicky i knew.’ that’s what made me realise he was missing in the first place (well not missing, more like filtered)

nicolò di genova is not a typical action hero. he’s thoughtful and compassionate and he likes to cook and read. he isn’t hench or unemotional or an asshole. he’s kinda weird and awkward, he doesn’t fill silences or speak without reason and he stares at anything and everything with those big round eyes. he is not a masculine hero in a traditional sense, and this does not compromise his skill and awesomeness.

his softness is his strength. the fact that after so long he can still find the will to be gentle and loving is what makes him so special. that is a choice, that is something that defines him as a person. and while it was still there in pieces, the sequel shifted him more towards a traditional masculinity he has never been shown to align with.

[theoldgvard]

Ok, after doing a lot of thinking and having a quite insightful chat with someone who diagrees with me, i think I've finally figured out my issues with Joe and Nicky in TOG2, and it's the opposite of what I initially thought.

Initially, I thought my issue was that TOG2 Joe and Nicky don't act like TOG1 Joe and Nicky, but this is, as has been pointed out to me, not the case: they still act like a couple and they certainly argue like one too; they go to bed arm-in-arm; we get another forehead boop (and we loved the first one!). No, rather, my issue is the opposite - that TOG1 Joe and Nicky don't act like TOG2 Joe and Nicky. This may sound like the same thing but, let me explain why it is not:

Joe and Nicky in the first film do not act like 'bros', neither together nor individually, not in the slightest - they're soft and gentle, to quote a (probably very) old post, "the women in the old guard are 'I go first' and the men are 'I'm here'" In other words, the film blatantly disregards stereotypical gender roles. Andy is the battleworn and cold-but-secretly-good-at-heart hero. She's the masculine one here. And Joe and Nicky are not, not in the traditional sense, anyway, I mean, arguably they're, for most of the film, the damsels in distress - the ones who get kidnapped by the big bad and need rescuing (obviously it's not quite that but hopefully you can see what I'm saying - two men need saving by two women (and booker but he's not really relevant here) is not a common plot for an action flick) And that was one of our biggest praises of the film at the time - that the men could be unmasculine without being emasculated. I mean. immediately after being super gay in an armoured van filled with homophobes, Joe and Nicky murder them all. Their biggest appeal was being soft and gentle and still being action heros, the same as Nile and Andy and (maybe this is where he becomes relevant) Booker. In other words, their biggest appeal was being queer and still being action heros.

Joe and Nicky in TOG2, however, have had this thing added to them, and this thing is the traditional masculinity that they were so refreshingly lacking in the first film - that 'bro energy' they now have despite not necessarily being 'bros'. I mean, they argue over cars, like lets be real here, the only thing more masculine that is arguing over football.

I rewatched the first film a couple days ago and, I'm not sure I can really explain it but, they just feel more queer in that film. They're softer, not just in the way they speak and act with each other, but with everyone. Nicky likes to cook, Joe like to draw - both acts of creation, where your typical macho action hero tends to dabble only in acts of destruction (boxing, wresting, shooting, etc. etc.). The Joe and Nicky in the sequel just don't feel like that any more. I can't imagine them cooking or drawing. I can however, imagine them arguing over cars, because the film has, quite literally, told me that that is the kind of men that they are: masculine ones.

So yes, all the married people saying that Joe and Nicky acting more like friends is not an indicator of them being 'less in love' or 'less queer', 'less married' than they were in the first film (in fact, as many have argued, it's actually an indicator of the opposite) are right. However, them being written and portrayed as far more traditionally masculine than they were previously is. They argued over cars! Cars!! You're telling me those two gay dinosaurs from TOG1 know which breed of car is better?? Seriously??? Of course they didn't!! They're gay! And old! And definitely can't drive - in fact, in the comics i'm pretty sure it's andy or nile who ends up driving off the cliff. You know why? Cuz joe and nicky are so gay they'd crash a car that didn't even have an engine in it!! I'm so angry about the car thing!!!!

TLDR: To me it seems that while Joe and Nicky in TOG2 would still kiss and spoon and be romantic like they did in the first film, right after they'd make a joke 'no homo' style.

Their relationship may still be as tender and romantic, but now there's this extra bro-like masculinity added in that wasn't present in the first film, and it is this that makes them feel less tender, less romantic and, most importantly, less queer in the second film.

[theoldgvard]

okay maybe 2old2guard sucked a teensy bit but i am currently on holiday in italy reading kaysanova fanfics so is life really that bad

[theoldgvard]

Nicky who never chickened out on the cliffs of moher is so important to me

[theoldgvard]

you see, the thing is, with how Joe has forgiven Booker i see clearly now, i have an understanding of how Joe would have forgiven Nicky all those centuries ago.. ohhhh, im struck by the vision, it all makes so much sense, it's good that im sitting down already

incredible. and so i offer in return: with how he’s struggling to forgive booker, i see clearly now how nicky would struggle to forgive himself even after all these centuries.

we saw it at the dinner scene in film one, the look on his face when he said ‘many times’, there’s still residual pain there in a way there isn’t with joe. he clearly needs to sit with things for a long time, so of course he’s still struggling to reconcile with his worst mistake.

[theoldgvard]

i love it but nicky’s little speech should’ve been in italian too

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mourning what could’ve been

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booker interacting with andy (who he egregiously wronged last movie): *emotional heart to heart, immediately sacrifices his immortality for her*

booker interacting with joe and nicky (who he wronged equally if not more egregiously last movie): so when are we friends again lol

[theoldgvard]

Luca marinelli has been acting way more neurotypical for tog2 :( i miss thousand yard stare yippee creature nicky

[theoldgvard]

ngl if i was quynh i’d be fucking fuming that stupid app lady only releases me from my centuries of torture when she thinks i’ll be of use to her