#I'm still confused why Isayama seems to like Levi hurting Eren and only Eren

[innocentimouto]

Was Levi justified in assaulting Historia in attempt to frighten her into submission when she didn't immediately agree to become the queen?

Justified isn't the word I would use. I think the problem with this is that people see this and use it to say Levi abused her, or that Levi resorts to violence at every turn.

Both are false. Many times throughout the series, Levi doesn't resort to violence or even anger at times where you would expect it. When Mikasa disobeys him and he gets injured, she not only endangered herself, he got injured saving her. That later prevented him from fighting Annie later on and in the manga you see him frustrated by that.

At the very least, you could expect some anger for disobeying orders. He just lectures her. The same thing happens later with Jean. For one, Levi doesn't even bring it up. There's the even more obvious one of when that soldier Dieter disobeyed orders, called them heartless, got his friend killed, and made them dump the bodies. To this day, I'm shocked Levi offers comfort, not scorn, anger, or criticism---comfort.

He's seen so many comrades die. To have more die over something so easily avoidable, a death so pointless, which he hates, and to not resort to anger? The healthier reaction would be to become angry.

So he doesn't resort to violence at every turn, but yes, he does resort to it at times. It's one of the main reasons I'm fascinated by Levi. It's so easy to say he isn't complex, that he's just an op character. But it's things like this that make it hard to understand him at first glance.

Someone who resorts to violence should have punched Dieter. No one would have said anything. Someone who resorts to violence should have gotten in Mikasa's face after she blamed him for Eren's capture right after he passed his squad's dead bodies, after she disobeyed orders and got him injured (not saying this to demonize her; she didn't know what happened to his squad presumably).

To choose to be understanding and take the role of a captain, of someone strong enough to offer advice and stability in dire situations---that is who Levi is.

So with that being said, did he have to do that to Historia? Maybe, maybe not. What I think would have happened had he not would be she would spend a long time resisting the role of being queen until someone made her understand forcefully. I can't see her warming up to the idea instantly. She probably would too late, when more people have died, when she's forced to see the start of what would happen if she weren't queen.

Some people criticize her for not being willing, but that's a huge thing to ask a teenager. I completely understand her hesitance. Levi did too. But they didn't exist in a world where one was allowed the luxury to avoid a role bigger than what they're prepared for.

The reason Levi so desperately wanted her to accept is because it would save them from a civil war. It would save so many lives. It would be bloodless. All the sacrifices up to that point would have been meaningless because they would be too caught up in fighting each other. Not to mention Reiner and Bertholdt could have returned at any point while this was happening.

Levi just returned from torturing someone. A person within the walls, his own people, the people he fought for every time he left the walls. How invalidating it must have felt. Who exactly was he fighting for if he had to continue torture people like that?

I imagine Levi joined the Survey Corps with hopes that his strength could be used for good. That he could escape the death and misery of the Underground where his strength was used for survival, where he witnessed violence and death that never seemed to end. That he could be more than that type of person. He could use that strength and experience to help people for a change, instead of harming people to survive.

All this, plus learning titans were really humans, it's almost like Levi would never actually stop being the person he was Underground. Someone who hurt others for his right to live. More pointless deaths. More violence that no one really wanted.

If Historia didn't become queen, this would continue.

Levi is compassionate. Levi fights for humanity. Levi hates pointless deaths. Historia becoming queen would be one of the first choices they would make that would have almost no sacrifices. I imagine Levi or anyone in the Survey Corps for years would lose it if such a chance wasn't taken.

One weird thing I did notice is that Jean takes out for Historia, saying she finally got to be her own person but now she would be forced into another role. While this is incredibly sweet of him, and great storytelling to recognize how a character suffers, this is only ever applied to her.

And well, later Annie, but I dislike almost everything about season 4 anyway.

Armin never wanted to join the Survey Corps. Majority of the kids didn't. They were terrified. I doubt even the adult soldiers enjoy fighting a losing battle against the titans for years. So many characters have to take on rolls that they shouldn't, that burdens them.

Yet everyone acts like this only applies to Historia, that Levi forced her into this role when the alternative was probably being on the run for the rest of her life anyway.

So technically yes, Levi was justified because so much was at stake, but I do feel bad for Historia. But I'll be honest, I find it very interesting that this is brought up more than him kicking Eren like 20 times. He didn't even hurt Historia. I'm still upset this was removed from the anime. If they wanted to remove anything, they should have removed kicking Eren or at least reduce it because that was so brutal.

[cosmicjoke]

I am a bit lost for words. I didn't know you'd be upset or that you've been asked the questions I asked countless times already. All the interviews I mentioned are interviews that have been known by most people in the aot fandom...

Kamiya san never said Levi and Erwin were not even friends...

Anyway, thanks for answering... I think because you've answered these questions before you kind of brushed of all my questions to tell me it wasn't canon. Please, I wasn't trying to push you to think they are canon. I simply wanted to be able to take off my own shipper goggles but your answers have still left me confuse because the wasn't any concrete answers that didn't seem like an annoyed rant.

There is so much hostility toward the Eruri fandom by Levi stans even tho there are people who literally ship Levi with Eren. It's baffling.

There's plenty there that's concrete. You brushing my answers off as "not concrete" pretty much proves my point. Nothing you noted to me or claimed has any, evidentiary backing. It's all pure speculation and assumption and applied meaning with nothing to actually back it up, which is what I told you, which is why I don't take any of it seriously. You read meaning into scenes which is colored by your bias of wanting to see it as romantic, and when I tell you so, you tell me I've offered you nothing concrete. I gave you explanations which make infinitely more sense, when taken in the context of the actual events unfolding in the story, than to simply say it's "meant to be seen as romantic". An example, you trying to imply that Levi holding the serum to his chest is somehow indicative of his feelings for Erwin, when all it is, as I explained, is Levi hesitating because he's just discovered Erwin is alive. You want it to mean that Levi's heart is hurting, or whatever, but it literally doesn't mean anything other than what I've laid out. How is that "not concrete"? I am annoyed, because I get asks like this constantly and I've repeatedly stated that I don't want to talk about this anymore, but no one ever listens. You must know my stated stance on Eruri, so you must know what my answers will be, and yet you continue to needle me about it, like you can't just simply accept my answers.

I didn't brush your questions off. I literally went through every one and gave you my legitimate thoughts on each. You presented nothing to me which proves, or even suggest that Levi is in love with Erwin, because there simply isn't anything to support the notion. What's so confusing about that? What's so hard to accept about that?

I'm not hostile toward Eruri shippers, I'm just sick of these inane, persistent and obsessive questions I get, over and over, most of which in fact are aimed at me with the intent to argue. I said I'm sorry for being harsh, but you have to understand this from my perspective.

It's beyond tiring at this point. I gave you thorough answers to your questions, you then accuse me of brushing you off and not giving you anything concrete, because they weren't the answers you wanted, and then you act confused as to why I'm being so blunt. This kind of act gets to me, this constant hiding behind a facade of innocent intent or ignorance, as if you don't know what my opinion already is. You do, I'm sure, but you keep pushing. I've talked about this particular topic more times than I can count. You provide no evidence for the things you claim Isayama has said, saying it's because you don't know how to link to the source. There's endless supplies of false rumors and mistranslations floating around out there, and none of it matters, as I've repeatedly stated, because, again, the only thing that matters is what's in the manga/anime. That' IT. Even if Isayama said whatever it is you claim he said, it doesn't matter, because those are just off-handed, spur of the moment, vague answers given without much thought in live settings, or they're interview answers given in the midst of his writing the story, which necessarily means he can't give complete, fleshed out answers to anything, either because he didn't have a fully formed picture in his head at the time of where things were going, or he couldn't reveal what he knew because it would spoil the story.

If you want to believe Levi was in love with Erwin, go right ahead. But don't pretend like there's actual, concrete evidence or proof of it in the story, because there isn't.

I've written three replies to you now, and you haven't shown an ability to accept my answers on either one. You want to believe Levi and Erwin are romantically involved, and nothing to the contrary is going to matter to you, including the lack of proof in canon. I think this conversation is done now.

[0aurelion-sol0]

SNK keeps on being amazing. ( A rant that is not really one. )

133.

Just this panel alone is able to confirm everything that I wanted from this manga.

Eren's condition has always been what I suspected.

Ever since he sided with his brother Zeke, who manipulated Marley in attacking Eldia to retrieve the founder and other titans. Something THEY DIDN'T WANT TO DO, because they were being pressured by many other countries and were not as powerful as before due to their lack of powerful weapons like the ones in the Middle Eastern Alliance which were able to PIERCE through the fucking Armored Titan.

THIS resulted in the fucking festival and we know what happened then. Dozens of people died including children continuing the cycle of hate that has been started for god knows how long. And Eren WILLINGLY took a part in it because he wanted his actions to be a little easier while he was going to genocide the whole fucking world.

INCLUDING his own island because let's be honest when Eren is done with the Rumbling, destroying every ecosystems. EVERYTHING that keeps a planet alive, his little island won't live for long.

"The ground... It's crying." CHAPTER 131 said by one of the goddamn kids he fucking killed.

Marley is now sure, let's fucking kill all Eldians.

He did his attack on Liberio, he betrayed everyone. Crushing Hange's every possibilities of finding a peaceful way of settling things down after having been hidden MANY useful informations by Eren, Zeke and his group but also the Azumabitos.

Sparking a civil war inside Eldia, leading to an Eldian supremacist group cause let's be honest when Floch killed that Marleyan and than gave his little first king Fritz speech, it was like seeing Hitler all over again and the Klux Klux Klan.

I MEAN... FLOCH OF ALL PEOPLE! A guy who has PTSD after seing dozens of his comrades died, their faces exploded by fucking thrown rocks. He bastardized Erwin's ideologies and no matter how good willing he was, he was just a dead man walking acting like a fool.

He also betrays his own party now, the Jeagerist by allowing the very people they tried to stop the power to stop him. By activating the Rumbling, he also caused the death of Eldians inside the walls as we've been shown with Hitch.

AND THE WORST... destroy every connection he has with his friends. Hurting them, putting them in danger by the very group he created and the Titans.

Oh but that's not all...

He uses the titan the same way Marley did it, with oppression and violence. He is not stopping the cycle of hate, he is continuing it. And it will have repercussions inside the very group of people he tried to defend.

People killed each other inside the walls and they will kill each other without it. Mikasa as shown us that when her parents got murdered and she almost became a slave.

And he killed Hange with these same titans. I don't care if they sacrificed themself. He didn't live up to what he preached. They died and Hange was someone close to him and was concerned with his well being. Maybe it was too late but they also had many other priorities as Hange was commander. They also fell into depression because of their position. One of his mentors and friends, one who tried to talk with him while he was in that cell planning to destroy the world...

talking to himself...

At this point, you know where I'm going with this. We've all suspected it, we all know it. Let's not be blind about it.

Eren is influenced by the Attack Titan. Not Ymir (at least I hope so and I think so), not Kruger and certainly not Grisha.

It's pretty clear now.

I mean Eren's change happens off screen, every time we see him he is completely different from what we used to know of him.

He barely cares about his friend and don't give me the bullcrap of (hE dOeS tHiS fOr tHeM.) If he was he would have secured them and put them in a place where they wouldn't interfere, he would have tried to convince them. HE WOULD HAVE COMMANDED FLOCH NOT TO HURT THEM.

He would have not commited genocide after knowing what it led to with Reiner, Annie and Bertholt.

That's not Eren. And the stupid argument of "hE's aLwAyS bEeN vIoLeNt". That's just bullcrap and it just destroy every bit of beautiful empathy we have seen of him. With Mikasa, Armin and Historia. Levi who he respected a lot.

It just isn't coherent. Every action he does is not coherent since the timeskip.

NOW HE'S CHALLENGING HIS FRIEND ? WTF ?

I mean is no one questionning this, doesn't it seem off from what we've seen of him.

Eren is no strategist BUT... he isn't stupid. Every sane person would know that these actions will not benefit anybody.

But... they still happened.

If we look back again, here is Eren being positive trying to put Armin in a good mood.

The outside world... endless possibilities. It's a man who wonders.

Yet, AT THE RIGHT MOMENT... he has a flashback of Faye. And his face just change.

Isn't it just weird ? Like at the right moment where he can have a positive outlook on thing. NOPE.

And this has been going and going and going...

Here:

Chapter 130.

Eren arrives in Liberio what does he see.

A flashback of his mother's death

I mean it's pretty clear now.

_________________________________________

Eren has been influenced and convinced by the Attack Titan that there's no way out. He's been reliving past memories of his and others, past memories that were traumatic. It put him in a state of depression and dread through 5 FUCKING YEARS. On top of that, he is able to see the future and what he saw will happen and has happened hence his reaction to Sasha's death.

A fucking mental breakdown.

Jesus Christ, I don't know if I've ever cursed that much in my life.

It's impossible to stop what is going to happen, because what is going to happen, needs to happen.

But as we know Sasha is in the afterlife with Erwin, Hange and the others. And we have been confirmed that this is the afterlife. So we have time-travelling, afterlife, 13 years curse, people who can turn into titans, parallel dimensions and Eren who can see through birds.

But the fandom said, no, the prospect of him being manipulated by the Attack Titan is impossible even after knowing it has special abilities.

I MEAN...

Umm... This has happened before. And I saw no one complain.

So why this ?

Is impossible ?

Especially when Eren's whole arc is about questionning his perspective of the world and becoming in control of his violence and rage. Having an agency. HELLOOOO!!!????

What better way of having the main threat of that being the very thing that causes all of his problems and his powers.

Doesn't this remind anyone of anything ?

Yep. The Uprising Arc. And who ? Historia, the girl whose all life, she couldn't act as herself or have any real agency.

Yes, you know the girl whose pregnant and decided to live the rest of her life Little House On The Prairie style. ( I mean I don't think it's her but... that's what it's looking right now. )

And who is a descendent of Ymir Fritz. With too much uncanney similarities between the two.

They could have said the Founder, Eren Jeager or something else but no they said... "It's the Attack Titan."

And it's not Ymir, if she was the one to control Eren. Why wouldn't she free herself on her own if she's able to do that ?

And in 131, she was clearly in a position where she was questionning her choice.

And perhaps she probably tried to stop Eren but the Attack Titan took over him and her. Using her powers as she is the founder.

And now just like Eren, she has no eyes. She is still a slave. Why ? I thought Eren freed her. So ? This is the only logical explanation right now.

I mean when is the last time we saw Eren.

He was sleeping inside his titan in 131. Having a dream about seeing his "sight" of freedom as a kid. And also potentially watching things with birds.

It's just weird. If he was fully in control, the characters wouldn't have questionned it and none of this weird shit would be happening.

He clearly doesn't have a free will.

This requires too much energy and Eren is a normal Eldian, not one of Royal Blood. Being both in Paths, watching this " sight ", communicating, watching with birds, moving his titan which is enormous and the thousands of colossal titans is clearly hard and too dangerous for only one person to do.

Isayama has fooled us all and me in the process.

All this time, it was that goddamn thing pulling the strings. And with the help of Isayama since he is the goddamn author of this series

In chapter 88, we learn the true meaning of Shingeki No Kyojin.

The beauty of the japanese language, as confusing as it is, can be translated by Attack On Titan, at least for us american and western audiences.

( yes because as someone pointed out in the comments, it's a mistranslation but since I don't understand how to give credit by linking because I don't understand how it works, i can't credit. So you can find the person in the comments. DO NOT JUDGE ME, tumblr is not the best place to post sometimes. )

But it's not the Attack on Titan anymore.

It's the Attack Titan.

( piece of shit is it's surname. )