#and not just because it feels good to pretend we're superman fighting lex luthor?

[ganymedesclock]

Very good points with the last post, but I was thinking more about when a protagonist who is Hated by society for any reason gains power and influence and absolutely nothing changes about how people treat them to the point where you can feel the hand of the author. And then the protagonist gets Glorious Revenge on the people who hurt them or were disrespectful to them in any measure with their new cool powers without any reflection on how that would affect the character emotionally and morally, much less the world’s perspective on them.

This is more of a problem in fanworks where all the author wants is emotional satisfaction and vindication, but creating a section of people in your story who will forever be unworthy of redemption or change in a way that doesn’t involve groveling at the protagonist’s feet and can be freely hurt and killed without any consequence due to the way people in their group treated your character in the past can circle back around to being discriminatory. Like there was a story(granted it was fanfic) I read that had Special Magic People(Fae)who were outcasts of society because they were really powerful, then had that society discriminate against them, then painted everyone with powers as forever righteous good people and every person without as Ugly Evil Unpeople who could be slaughtered without any implications. There’s a scene where one of the Fae considers getting a ‘human servant’ like all his friends have via enchantment and subsequent kidnapping but doesn’t because it wouldn’t be worth the hassle and humans are annoying. This is not meant to say anything about the character’s morals, rather stating that the character prefers solitude Babe that is slavery. Your magical Fae society is ok with slavery.

Using power or magical-beinghood as a metaphor for queerness or disability is perfectly fine, but the problem comes when you try to make this all realistic instead of basing it on societal perception, because the thing about homophobia and racism and ableism is the fact that they are systems of power that place white, straight, rich, able bodied cis people at the top and everyone else at the bottom. Superpowers in context of sociology is more like: what if someone had a gun that they couldn’t unload, that was pointed at your head at all times. They wouldn’t shoot you with it, you think. But the gun is always there, and while the holder may not see it, you do. Which is a much better metaphor for living under systems that oppress you, with the caveat that superpowers are often inherent and social hierarchies are entirely made up.

Its just interesting how power is portrayed in the media as something that is either A. Born to or bestowed upon the protagonist and good or B. Something to be seeked out by the antagonist and bad. The idea that wanting what you weren’t given but other ‘more deserving’ people were is bad, but the idea that being more powerful than other people makes you inherently more moral rather than giving you more moral responsibility.

Ah, so you are positing the existence of type C, which is, "I want violent retribution on everyone who ever wronged me, but not to be held responsible for what I do with this power"

I think this can tie in with a lot of things. In aforementioned Danny Phantom, consider the bully character Dash. He literally introduces himself to the series by declaring- at max volume in a crowded cafeteria- that he has no future so high school is the best he's going to get.

Which is. needless to say. not something anyone with confidence says about themselves. But Dash does not exist to create problems for Danny, really; his primary function is being a justified target for Danny to punish over and over again.

People who are bullies understand that the concept of a bully is bad. They may have encountered- or fear- bullies themselves. But their solution is to idolize power and taking power. The Problem Is when I get pushed around, the problem isn't people shouldn't have the power to own/dominate others.

As you've pointed out this can run afoul in particular in social justice movements, since bullies exist everywhere and they will continue to co-opt whatever language gives them power and a platform. Some people just really, really want to hurt punish and control others. And broadly, they tend very quick to frame themselves as heroes punishing villains for being evil.

I recall back when I was in the Steven Universe fandom, someone told me their highly detailed system of how they wanted the Diamonds to die- they wanted Steven to murder Blue in front of Yellow, kill her next while she was grieving, and leave White alone and pleading before closing in for the finale.

Whether or not you like the Diamonds, or even whether or not you think the Diamonds should have died, it is obvious the objective is not removing or mitigating any threat here. The objective is sadism. The objective is wanting to punish people for ever having scared or upset you, and when a working fourth wall is at play it illuminates how insecure this mindset is. No matter how bad you think the Diamonds are, they are fictional characters, and not a perpetuation of bigotry or harmful stereotypes; they thus cannot hurt real people. The most they can do is be scary or upsetting, and even that is based on your willingness to go consume the media that has them in it. You could effortlessly turn off the tv and go watch a show where the hero makes the villain graphically explode every time, of which there are many.

But, we don't actually want things to get better! We want a justification to punish all the sinners that make trouble in our world. It's seductive it's reassuring it's a nice piping hot plate of comfort food that says "You're right forever! You actually ARE more special than anyone you don't want to interact with, your bullies or detractors actually ARE inherently lesser people than you. You will never have to face any sort of reality where people hurt your feelings but have some reason to exist or feel the way they do whether or not their actions are justified."

And incidentally, at its worst, this mentality can also utterly fail to address the very abuses it's trying to avenge. As you say, anon, it hinges on that the character remains a Dreadful Outcast forever.

Consider the plight of "Muggles" in Harry Potter. It sure feels like an amazing thing for an emotionally, materially, and physically abused boy to watch some magical giant show up, effortlessly boss his abusers around, and sweep him away from all that to a magical destiny world where he becomes stronger.

Only... at the end of every book they keep bringing him back. There are magical justifications for leaving him with his abusers. His cousin, who is also unambiguously hit and yelled at in the first book alone, does not even get the reprieves of special school even though we watch him become increasingly miserable with and enraged by his parents and their situation to the point that he makes at one point an unambiguous decision to stand by Harry with his parents watching.

This will come to nothing. Because Harry Potter takes the vicarious thrill children want to feel- that they know some secret that makes them special, reassuring when you don't think you're that cool and haven't had the life experience to invest in your identity yet- and basically turns it into, you don't deserve to be bullied because you're actually part of an old-money privileged over-class. With slaves! Why would you want to exist in a world where you reconcile with the foster sibling that pushed you around because he too was terrified of his parents and the dysfunctional house you lived in? He needs to know his place and be inferior to you, so that you can always be safe.

Because you never won't be traumatized and your trauma will never be a thing untouchable even by people who might care for you or be a friend to you, and if you decide the only way you will be safe is if you can rip a pound of flesh out of anyone who ever prods your wounds, then you won't feel safe unless you have someone on the figurative guillotine.

It's a status of victimhood that will never be lifted by any amount of power, because if you break the spell and admit that you have the capacity to hurt others and not the power to constantly be justified and eternally know evil when you see it, then that means you just might be the bad guy.

And you've made a world where nobody can even dip their toe in being the bad guy without deserving hell. So you can't be a sinner! That'd mean everything you feel is completely unjustified!

So, hail to the king, hail to the ultimate victim, whose suffering will never end because it is the throne he sits on to hold him above others.

And maybe I've played too much Final Fantasy Tactics Advance as a child, or maybe I just like monsters too much; but I've just always had the sneaking suspicion my life wouldn't improve if I could just stab everyone who ever hurt my feelings with a pitchfork.

I think using power to torment defenseless people is a bad thing no matter what that person did, and it is an unnecessary intrusion to actual harm reduction.