#experience can definitely make you dismissive of the youth. even if it's born chiefly out of concern

[youhavereachedtheendofpie]

I feel like that first scene Miguel has with Gwen is the perfect example of his story and his faults. He comes in, without invitation, thinking he is going to save the day and make a difference, and sort of is a little condescending to her just because he is older and bigger.

Fair to think that but because he is so busy trying to show how much more capable he is, he isn't paying attention to what's actually happening. She is actually aware of what's going on, and while she might appreciate help, she is just trying to figure out how to resolve the situation. She may not know everything and she may not be doing everything perfectly, but she is doing her best.

And so when he comes in all arrogant and whatnot, she's like, "Okay." And he gets his shit rocked. The same thing happens with Miles. And it really speaks to the generational divide. Even though I'm closer to Miguel's age, I feel like as people get older they are so insistent on having their way because of their experiences and are not open to considering that their way is only one way, not the way. He isn't totally wrong, but that doesn't mean the people younger than him have no idea what's going on either or that they may not have a point. I know you just reblogged a GIF set and weren't trying to start a whole discussion lol, but it really stuck with me that Miguel was like that (and I know part of it was the trauma).

It reminded me of how adults older than I am treat people, and still treat me, even though I'm very much an adult. And the other spider people supported him because they knew what he was talking about, like Peter, but rather than provide nuance to the situation, they just went along with what he said (again, probably because of his trauma).

I guess I'm protective of younger people because I know what it feels like to be dismissed, and I still go through it, and find it frustrating to deal with older people who do have experience, but are wrong a plenty of the time, are unaware of the reality of certain situations, and want ridicule you on top of that to simply show they are correct.

Rather than actively guide younger people, old heads wanna show off or tell you how things should be, and it's hard to listen to people who don't genuinely want to help you grow and improve things, but rather want you to fall in line and do everything how they think it best, even though they're not in the best position themselves.

hmm, I'm not sure it's arrogance per se, even though he certainly comes off a bit dismissive in that first scene with Gwen. It can easily read as cocky, but (if memory serves) I read it as much more out of concern. The thing is, if you are older and have more life experience, and also remember how grown you thought you were at that younger age, it's very easy to fall into that mindset of 'I need to protect these kids because they're too young to understand anything'. It's also very easy to become set in your worldview and opinions on how stuff works - and Miguel is clearly very emotionally invested in the canon events theory, even to the point where he dismisses the very idea that things can be different because he needs it to be this way because this way makes sense and gives him a clear purpose and clear rules according to which the world works. Idk, to me the most interesting part of his character in the movie is that he really cares so much and is trying so hard to save as many as possible and help as much as he can while operating under this assumption (a certainty to him) that total success (saving everyone not just from death and injury and destruction, but also heartbreak) is impossible. And to a certain degree he's right of course, you cannot avoid all harm and suffering, not if you're just one guy, and not even if you're a whole massive team of super spider-people. But he still tries to save the other Spideys from having to bear the responsibility. It was a canon event, there is nothing you could have done, it was always supposed to happen this way. And perhaps that's a very comforting thought to especially the older Spiderpeople like Peter B., who have already lost more in their longer lives. And then that's the main friction point with Miles, because he is the first one to actively and decisively challenge that notion that canon events (or fate, if you will) are both necessary and unchangeable. I think others may have had their doubts regarding the veracity of the canon events theory (Hobie certainly wasn't fully on board with the whole multiversal spider society idea in the first place), but I think to the best of their individual knowledge the 'evidence' supports the theory, because the big traumatic loss has happened to most (even Hobie) and there was nothing they could do to stop it. But this was, crucially I think, because they were usually alone when that took place (in the movie Miguel talks about the canon event in question being when a police captain close to them dies, but arguably the same probably applies to the Uncle Ben figure, commonly the catalyst for a Spider-man's becoming). But in the film when Pavitr's police captain is supposed to bite the dust he is saved because there were like four of them who could work together.

But crucially it isn't until Miles refuses to just accept that his father has to die that the real break occurs. The situation before? Well they didn't know. Cpt. Singh could still bite the dust another time & way. The timeline isn't so much endangered as delayed, if you want to be callous about it. But Miles just flat out refuses to even entertain the idea, cuz that's his dad and he's a Spider-Man and he's a hero, right? He has to try to save him. Interestingly he doesn't question that the fatal event is going to happen, or even when, he just thinks he can change the outcome if he tries hard enough. There's something very much of the ancient greek myths about this. In trying to prevent the prophecy from coming true you actually end up doing everything to ensure that it does. So basically Miguel believes in the prophecy completely, while Miles believes he can change the prophecy, but neither (at least at this point) questions the prophecy as such. Very interesting stuff.