#giermund's saga

[project-zorthania]

so what do you think are hytham and basims ages?

I hope you'll forgive the amount of snark and sass that I'm about to use to answer your question anon, because if I had the time and energy to spend making an hour long video essay to reply to this, I would.

You’d think tying in all your games around real historical events would mean creating a consistent timeline for your characters, but no! Ubisoft’s canonical timeline continues to be an absolute disaster, which makes this ask both a blessing and a curse as I’m left with a plethora of information to source for my answer.

I want this to make sense for everyone reading along so bear with me, I’ll try my best to keep this as short and sweet as possible.

A fair warning that this post will be riddled with spoilers for the following:

AC Valhalla

AC Mirage

The Golden City

Sword of the White Horse

Giermund's Saga.

Now without further ado, let’s break it down.

By the time we first see them in Valhalla, I estimate Basim to be in his late 30s and Hytham to be in his early 30s with no bigger than a 6 year age gap between them.

Here is what we know.

AC Valhalla starts with Sigurd meeting Basim and Hytham in Constantinople just a few months prior to their long trek up to Norway together in 872 CE.

We also know that the book 'The Golden City' takes place in 867 CE, during the reign of the Byzantine Emperor Basil I in Constantinople. That’s exactly 5 years before the events of Valhalla.

And exactly 6 years before the start of 'The Golden City' was the era of extreme instability in Baghdad after the assassination of the Caliph Al-Mutawakkil in 861 CE.

Here’s a visual of the timeline surrounding these events:

The following clip is from the official Ubisoft Developer Trailer Breakdown, the rest of the video is available to watch on youtube here.

According to the Narrative Director at Ubisoft Bordeaux, Mirage takes place 20 years before Valhalla, which...

*confused whale noises*

One could argue that Sarah Beaulieu meant 20 years before Basim’s betrayal in Norway, which takes place in 877 CE, (that’s still only 16 years) but if all of this were true, then the entire timeline for 'The Golden City' starts to get very messy.

If you haven't already read the novel, the story follows Basim and Hytham and their mutual struggle with fatherhood. The author, Jaleigh Johnson, seamlessly manages to tie in the AC universe with the reign of Emperor Basil and the very real assassination attempts on his child, Leo. It is the origin story to their inseparable companionship and elaborates on how Hytham develops a striking degree of loyalty and trust towards his partner/mentor.

There are a couple instances within the book that allude to Hytham's age.

The Golden City - Chapter 6: Hytham's first encounter with Justin, Leo's former personal guard.

The Golden City - Chapter 15: Justin defines his relationship with Leo.

The Golden City - Chapter 25: Basim's call-out.

A couple things to note here:

Hytham considers Justin, a man in his early 20s, young.

Justin considers Leo, a very small child no older than 10, a little brother.

Hytham is old enough to consider this same child his son.

If Hytham considers a man in his early 20s young, and said 20 year old considers a child his little brother, what on earth does that make Hytham? The book is telling us that Hytham must be between his mid to late 20s in order to think this way. His struggle with his paternal instincts and numerous conversations regarding the topic with Basim are a testament to that.

And if you're still not convinced:

Hytham is explicitly telling us that they're not far apart in age. This isn't speculation, he's telling us that he knows just how old Basim is. Granted, he doesn't know that Basim has merged with an Isu reincarnation, but right here, standing before all of us, Basim is still Basim residing in a human body that has lived through very human years.

Now if we go back to Mirage's canon of their ages and compare what we know from the book (and bear in mind, the book was released prior to the release of Mirage with intention to setup for it, so this really should've been something deeply considered by Ubisoft before Mirage released)

My god, it's like Ubisoft didn't even TRY.

Muhammad Ibn Tahir even makes a passing comment about Basim looking to be in his 20s. Granted, the man's definitely guessing here, but he's likely not far off given that the game starts with Basim being 17. If we go by what Muhammad says, this tells us that 3 years has passed since Basim killed Al-Mutawakkil in Anbar at the start of the game.

This is the same 20 year old bearded Basim that we see meet Hytham atop a minaret in Karkh (approximately... we really have no idea what the timeline of events are within Mirage, which is another thing that irks me to no end).

I'm reluctant to entertain the idea that Hytham is any younger than 14 here because 'The Golden City' is dependent on portraying both Basim and Hytham as older men with relatively similar ages, and since the novel relies heavily on historical events, that leaves us with little to no wiggle room in moving the story's timeline around.

It must take place during the reign of Emperor Basil between the years of 867 to 886, and they're already in Norway by 872.

I want to honor the author’s dedication and research into making a cohesive timeline between all the main line games and their novel, especially when its story expands on the characters in question.

Because if we even attempt to go by Mirage's canon, we're going to run into all sorts of problems trying to make sense of a 22 year old Basim running around Constantinople with his acolyte, who is apparently... also a child.

The part that really breaks my heart? That scene between them atop the minaret is such a touching moment. I was beyond conflicted when I finally happened upon Hytham in Mirage, and now I'm being forced to contend with its canonimity :/

Hilariously, if Ubisoft truly intended for Basim to be 20 years older in Valhalla, it only further solidifies that they wanted to canonize an older Basim in his late 30s. The bad math could've been an oversight... even if it is a big one.

Let's delve into Valhalla next.

Thanks to Eivor's AC Rebellion bio, we know that her age ranges between 25-30 years old throughout Valhalla. This is further supported by Kjotve's comment about 17-18 winter's passing since the death of her parents near the beginning of the game, and further cemented when she's talking to Basim by the campfire, stating that she lost her parents at the tender age of 9.

This is important to note when observing the way Basim interacts with Eivor throughout the story, especially since Mirage's canon insists that they are only 2-3 years apart.

Early in the game Eivor teases Basim about jumping the gun to find a new apprentice to tutor, and his response is to lend her guidance.

In Cent, when completing the quest 'The Instrument of the Ancient's, a dialogue triggers when Eivor and Basim are on their way to infiltrate Canterbury's Cathedral to rescue Sigurd:

This is not how friends talk to each other in their late 20s. This is a man with years of experience, eager to impart his knowledge to one much younger. He's not using a condescending tone here, he genuinely believes he can guide her.

Also, have you SEEN the man?

Does that look like a 30 year old to you?

Better yet, have you seen Hytham?

Because this man looks like he's in his 30s, but according to Mirage he's supposed to be barely 20 here?

I'm sorry, I know this sounds like I'm harping on Mirage a lot, but you have to understand that all this frustration comes from a place of deep affection for a franchise I practically grew up with. Part of what makes Assassin's Creed so incredible is it's ability to immerse a player in a historical setting and create impactful stories within those settings, but so much of that has been lost overtime due to corporate greed, it's become disheartening.

Why on earth would Ubisoft create such an expansive and incredible recreation of 9th century Baghdad only to spend little to no effort on it's story? So little effort in fact, that they couldn't even tie in the story with their main line series properly. Imagine having a team of historians and architects dedicated to bringing an accurate depiction of old Arab/Persian/Levantine culture to life, only to drown it out with a lukewarm story and poorly constructed timelines?

The point I'm trying to make is that I'm being forced to pick and choose my canons because of inconsistency's like this. Will the canons I choose to abide by for the sake of world-building be the same as everyone else's? No! And I don't expect it to either. This is my opinion based on the research I conducted, and this is how I'm choosing to make sense of everything to provide myself with an ounce of sanity when creating fanworks.

Which is also the reason why I haven't included 'Giermund's Saga' or 'Sword of the White Horse' in this response, as I personally found their depictions of Hytham and some supporting characters a little ooc for my taste.

And before I get into why, I want to make a disclaimer that my intent in dissecting the stories told in these novels isn’t to undermine the work that the author has poured into these works. These writers have my utmost respect and admiration for dedicating so much time and effort in expanding the AC universe and bringing to life their own interpretations of these characters, and I feel it’s important to acknowledge that my opinions here are my own and not a reflection of the entire fanbase. This is not an invitation to dunk on any of the works that they’ve so clearly poured their passion into. I only mean to dissect it for the sake of analysis and I want to be honest for the sake of this ask.

Here's an excerpt from Giermund's Saga as Giermund meets Hytham for the first time.

Giermund observes that Hytham looks to be in his 20s. This observation is given from the perspective of an outsider. He is an unreliable narrator guessing the age of a man he has just met. I could easily do the same thing- guess the age of a stranger I see down the street and for all I know, I could be woefully wrong.

Additionally, Hytham appears to have pierced ears. Do I have a thing against pierced ears? Absolutely not 😂 and I'd be over the moon to see fanart of this, but has Hytham ever been depicted with them in Valhalla before? No! What an odd addition that contributes nothing to his character for this brief appearance.

In Sword of the White Horse, Hytham is described to having brown eyes:

Which again, I don't have a single problem with brown eyes, it's just not what canon Valhalla has depicted him with.

There's also mention of him sustaining a lasting leg injury from his assault on Kjotve. You know... the one where he's swatted away like a fly on the wall. This is supposedly the same injury that confined him to his bureau for the entirety of Valhalla, but it couldn't be farther from the truth because in actuality he sustained a punctured lung, likely from a cracked rib that never properly healed. This change almost feels like it's understating the severity of his inflicted injuries. A punctured lung would've been infinitely harder to tend to than a leg that long ago, especially since the fall of Rome in the 5th century ended the advancement of surgical knowledge in Europe (not that it was that advanced at the time to begin with).

However, the biggest deal breaker for me is Hytham and Eivor's reluctance to return an artifact belonging to it's indigenous ancestors.

The premise of the book revolves around the retrieval of a sacred weapon to the protagonists people, Excalibur. But Eivor's reluctance to do so is in direct conflict with her character in Vinland, as she quite literally comes across an apple of Eden and returns it to the indigenous population of the land without a second thought. Given Hytham's overall generous nature, and the fact that he's played an advisory role within Ravensthorpe for some time now, it would make just as much sense for him to respond similarly and give back to the people what is rightfully theirs.

Furthermore, neither of these novels follow historical events with impact to the Valhalla story line. With a bit of research, I was able to find that Giermund was a real viking but very little else is known about him.

I cannot reiterate enough that these works are fantastic and should be enjoyed and appreciated in their own breath, but for the sake of breaking down canons and making sense of their ages, I'm opting to keep them out of timeline discussions, along with any other material with depictions of Hytham and Basim that have little to no impact on their speculated ages.

With all of that out of the way, here's a side by side comparison of the timeline Mirage has setup vs what I'm proposing based on all the canon information we've dissected.

I sincerely think that the mess of Mirage's timeline could've easily been solved if Ubisoft had simply aged the boys up a little.

As much as I adore tiny Hytham being shown how to do a leap of faith, I would've equally settled for Basim being introduced to Hytham training under Rayhan in Alamut as a young man instead.

There's even a cleverly placed letter making mention of Norse warriors in Constantinople that can be found in Fuladh's office just beside Enkidu's perch.

A subtle nod to the plot of 'The Golden City' soon to come:

Which means that the writers fully intended to tie Mirage in with 'The Golden City,' making it impossible to ignore.

I will leave you here before I ramble any further. I promise I'm not always this exasperated with my replies _(: 」 ∠)_

I sincerely hope this wasn't too convoluted to follow. Please do with this information what you will anon, but this is how I've chosen to make sense of everything and I hope you can track my logic.

To those of you who managed to get this far, I send you all my love and many kisses. Thank you for reading, and please do feel free to send me any other questions you may have!

I'll try my best to keep my response shorter than this one ;)

PS: I am aware that Hytham's wiki states that he was born in the 850s, but this wiki entry infuriates me to no end because there is NO SOURCE. Never has Hytham's birthday been explicitly stated anywhere, and someone just decided to randomly give him one. Please be VIGILANT in your research when you look up stuff about your favourite blorbos, as wikipedia can be edited by literally anyone.

k, end rant, thank you for coming to my ted talk. That's all i wanted to add 😂