#haven't felt like drawing in 900 years so

[finnlongman]

Hello, I'm the anon that asked about the Diarmuid and Grainne tale before and you gave such a great answer that I felt like it was safe to maybe send you an ask again? I've read more into the Ulster and Fenian tales and also came across the comparison between Diarmuid/ Grainne and Tristan/Isolde (a lot actually). Does that hold any evidence? Did the Tristan take evolve from Diarmuids story? I was thinking about maybe it up on JSTOR but you're definitely the less intimidating option. Have a great day

So, with the huge caveat that I am not a specialist in fíanaigecht material and also not an expert on Tristan material, this question did come at the only time when I might be able to answer it, because I literally read an article today about this topic. Having said that, I am still extremely not an expert!

First of all, I will say that this has definitely been a topic of discussion in academic scholarship on these texts. What the current consensus is on whether one text is drawing on the other, I can be less confident asserting, because I haven't read a lot of the scholarship on this topic. Although I'm not working on this topic directly, I'm currently looking substantially at the relationship between Arthurian romances and Early Modern* Irish texts (a category to which Diarmait & Gráinne belongs, although I'm working on the Ulster Cycle, so it's not in my corpus), so it's probably something I'll find myself coming back to. It's a very muddy area though -- although Arthurian scholars are often very ready to attribute details to the "Celtic" origins of a story and therefore imply that any similarities mean an Irish or Welsh text is the original blueprint, in this case, the surviving texts are late enough that you get a lot of influence coming back in from French and English sources via the Anglo-Normans and Ireland's general literary contact with the outside world.

When looking for articles on this kind of topic, JSTOR may be able to help, but I tend to find it's a bit limited for Irish material because so many articles and chapters in our field haven't been digitised. Which is a huge disadvantage. However, there are a few ways around this, at least in terms of identifying material (not so much getting access to it). I ran a search for tristan on BILL, the Bibliography of Irish Language & Literature, to see what had been published on the topic recently (but not super recently because BILL tends to be a few years behind with recent publications).

From there, I found Marie-Luise Theuerkauf's 2017 article in The Matter of Britain in Medieval Ireland: reassessments (Irish Texts Society Subsidiary Series 29, ed. John Carey): 'Tristan and early modern Irish romances: James Carney’s Ur-Tristan revisited.' This is a useful place to start. At least, it's where I started while reading today!

In this article, she discusses James Carney's controversial attempts (in the 1950s) to reconstruct an insular "ur-text" of the Tristan story that would have served as the source for later texts. In this study, Carney identifies a number of Irish texts that share motifs with Tristan stories, among them Tóruigheacht Dhiarmada agus Ghráinne. TDG probably dates to the thirteenth or fourteenth centuries, although the earliest manuscript of the text is from the seventeenth century. However, Carney believed that the original story underlying it dated to around 900, and therefore he can count it among his early, pre-Tristan texts.

It's true that there were definitely earlier versions of the story, since the (descriptive) title of one is found in tale lists: "The Elopement of Gráinne with Diarmaid". The text itself is lost, though, so we only have the title. Theuerkauf notes that "this proves that the love triangle story of Diarmaid, Gráinne and Fionn was known at a date anterior to the earliest Continental Tristan texts, we cannot automatically assume that the Aithed Gráinne story in exactly the same way as the Tóruigheacht does." In other words, a lot of the very specific motifs and similarities that the two texts share might be later, so which direction the influence is in becomes very muddy -- does Tristan get it from Diarmaid, or the other way around? Or do they both draw on a shared source? Or are they coincidental/more general folklore motifs from a common stock?

Theuerkauf cautions: "While it may be tempting to focus on the similarities which exist between the Tóruigheacht and Tristan, this focus has tended to lead to an over-simplification of the nature of the source material" and comments that although they're "very much alike in theme, they are often very different in execution or intent". She finishes by concluding that Carney is wrong about most things, if not everything, and introduces for consideration another 15th-century Irish text with close correspondences to the Tristan stories.

Another scholar who has worked on the relationship between the Tristan stories and the Irish material is Raymond J. Cormier. His article "Open Contrast: Tristan and Diarmaid" in Speculum 51/4 is available on JSTOR. I haven't read this one myself yet, but it looks based on Theuerkauf's citations that he tends to be quite critical of the connections between the two; among his criticisms is the fact that the late date of the surviving Irish texts means influences can enter directly from the French material, so shared motifs don't necessarily mean shared sources or Irish origins for those details.

He's also written about connections between Tristan narratives and the Naoise/Deirdre story, so looking at the love triangle motif in another Irish text. I haven't read this article yet, but it's here, if it's of interest (not sure if paywalled or not, sorry, I'm on institutional WiFi right now so it's bypassing all of that!)

Another article that looks valuable on this topic is Joseph Falaky Nagy, "Tristanic, Fenian, and lovers’ leaps" in Diasa díograise: aistí i gcuimhne ar Mháirtín Ó Briain (2009). Unfortunately, I can tell you nothing about this article because this book is not available to me. I have actually just requested that my library buy it because a couple of the other articles in there are relevant to me, but that means I can't advise on its contents yet!

Nagy has another article on the topic, 'The Celtic "Love Triangle" Revisited', in An XIV Comhdháil Idirnáisiúnta sa Léann Ceilteach, Maigh Nuad 2011: Imeachtaí (Dublin, 2015). Again, I have not read this one (although it looks like my library does actually have it), but it's also cited in Theuerkauf's article and sounds like it could be helpful.

I don't know if this answered your question at all, as I feel like the general vibe of what I just gave you was "ehh well they're definitely similar but the question is Why they're similar and that's more complicated" (ain't that always the way). But hopefully it might give you some sources to follow up on. I'm sorry I can't provide direct links to more of these -- the lack of open access and digitised scholarship in this field is a challenge.

*A point of terminology just to clarify in case anyone was confused: 13th-14th century may not sound "Early Modern" if you're used to thinking in purely historical terms, but linguistically, when it comes to Irish material this label tends to start from about 1300 (and obviously, being found in 17th century manuscripts positions this tale more solidly in the early modern period anyway).

[batobob-blog]

[dramayeoja]

Goblin ❣︎ 도깨비

Kim Shin, an undefeated war general, is ultimately killed by a jealous young king named Wang Yeo. After death, Shin is revived by the gods—but his revival is by no means miraculous. He becomes a 도깨비 (dokkaebi, goblin), and is cursed. He will have to pay for all the lives he took in battle by living alone in immortality, witnessing everyone he's ever loved, die. Remaining lodged in his chest is the very sword that killed him. There is only person who can see that sword, and draw from his heart so that he can finally rest in peace: his bride... whom he's yet to meet.

Things get spoilery under the cut—you've been warned! ;)

Chipper, yeah? Haha so, right off the bat, the premises of Goblin remind me of like, a much more morbid version of the legend of King Arthur. You know, a man draws a sword from stone to prove himself the greatest king in all of Britain? Yeah. Just to be clear: this is a good thing (imo). Like, I personally think this is just such a cool idea for a drama 😍

Let's jump right in. I'm gonna be honest and say that, at first, I felt a little turned off at the female lead, Eun Tak, being nineteen (in the beginning of the show), meanwhile the male lead, Shin, is 900+ years old (but physically looks to be in his thirties). It just... rubbed me weird. But hey, the Twilight series (both the books and the movies) is exactly the same—high school girl, century-old man, bananas yet somehow romantic storyline... And I loved me some Twilight as a young adult. So I mean, I have no right to judge, really. Plus, Eun Tak soon turns twenty anyway. So that's an improvement I guess 🤷🏻‍♀️ We follow her character into her late twenties, nearly thirty. So things are definitely fine by then haha! 👍

Don't let that previous bit make you think I didn't enjoy Goblin—I LOVED it. That detail is just a lil funky to me, is all. Back during my Twilight obsession days, I was nearly twenty myself, and the thought of being pursued by an older man was exciting. Hell, I mean, it still is! But now that I'm two years shy of my 30th Birthday, I feel differently sometimes. I think, LAWD get that girl away from that man, she too young for him LOL. I am definitely getting old... Enough about Twilight now, apologies! I'm only using it for the sake of conveying similarities seen in Goblin 🙏 Let's talk cast!

Kim Go Eun as Ji Eun Tak and Gong Yoo as Kim Shin

Eun Tak is a bubbly young woman with limitless energy! While still in her mother's womb, Mama Ji was involved in a hit-and-run incident which, sadly, took her life. During Mama Ji's dying moments, she prayed to anyone above that her child's life be spared. Sat on a rooftop from afar, beer in hand (lol), Shin hears her prayers, as he is a god of sorts. He appears before Mama Ji, and shows mercy to her unborn baby. Eun Tak grows up with the ability to see/speak to ghosts. Said ghosts tell her constantly that she is the goblin's bride. How do they know? A strange birthmark on the back of Eun Tak's neck tips them off. Eun Tak unfortunately was taken in by her abusive bitch of an aunt, who jabs Eun Tak every chance she gets. Her cousins are assholes. Eun Tak's aunt really only keeps her around in hopes of collecting Mama Ji's savings (intended for Eun Tak) one day. Sad, right? I mean, isn't Eun Tak being born without her mother enough as it is? Life can be so cruel 😔

Lee Dong Wook as Grim Reaper/Reaper/Wang Yeo

This is Grim Reaper (or Reaper for short), portrayed by the handsome Lee Dong Wook. His character is just this strange, not at all tech-savvy man with a constant deadpan facial expression. Said facial expression provokes so many giggles during funny moments, and drives home the longing and desperation during sad times. We learn quite a ways in that he, in his previous life (again, just in case: spoiler), was Wang Yeo G A S P ! The young king that is essentially responsible for Shin's death, as well as all the misdeeds that were done to Shin's family. Again, this is something I don't want to spoil. Well, more, anyway 😆 You gotta see it!

Yoo In Na as Kim Sun/Sunny

Kim Sun, or simply, Sunny (she loves to spell her name for people lol, S-U-N-N-Y!) is the second female lead. Yoo In Na is so gorgeous that one look at her makes you feel like such a potato hahhah. 🥔 This fact about her beauty bleeds over into the show itself—every time another character meets Sunny, the camera does this slow motion pan into her lmao. She really is that pretty! Sunny's personality comes across so odd at first... Having watched all of the episodes now, I feel the intention of Goblin's creators was to make her seem like a soul searching for something it has lost in a previous life. idk if that makes sense, but yeah. She has this way about her, like she's disconnected from others, and is sifting through the haziness to find this thing she feels she's lost.

Yook Sungjae (my BtoB bias 😍) as Yoo Deok Hwa

Sungjaeeee ahhhh 💘💘💘 I had to gush, sorry! Hehe. Meet Deok Hwa: unofficial nephew of Shin. Deok Hwa is a third-generation chaebol (heir to a family-owned corporation) and spoiled man-child, always seeking his credit card hahaha 🤣 But I love him so much. Between Gong Yoo, Lee Dong Wook, and BtoB Sungjae? Man, I'm dying over here! Deok Hwa's true identity is revealed later in the show, which if you haven't seen it yet, I won't spoil it. Just watch. But his ending sucked. Like where did he go? Everyone else's endings got tied up neatly except for his. What gives, man? 🤔 Edit: I was actually reading an online conversation about what happened to Deok Hwa online—someone jokingly said he was reincarnated as BtoB Sungjae LOL 💯

Other various comments

AMAZING OST 😍😍😍

Good pace, episodes drag at times. A little confusing in the beginning, but you get there eventually. Maybe this is just me though, viewers who are a little more keen than I will likely catch on sooner ;) My mom was a little confused as well, and actually said at one point, "This should be called the 'what-the-hell-is-going-on' show," hahaha. Like I said though, we quickly moved on from this, and loved all the things. There are actually, I think, three (?) specials that were made to aid viewers in making sure they understand the complex events and relationships clearly. I haven't watched them yet, but want to!

Quite repetitive tbh, as there are unnecessary flashbacks often. Probably for two reasons: the obvious of reminding you what's what, but also to create suspense. Typical duration of most tvN dramas seems to be about 16 episodes, so it's possible these flashbacks and things are, for lack of a better word, filler. I don't know how rigid or lax tvN is about having a drama set at 16 eps, but I get the idea this is their preference. Seeing as so many of their programs on average last that long, I feel this must be what they want. Such has the potential to affect the writing, either positively or negatively.

A continuation of the previous bullet: I think Goblin's creators oversimplified the plot at times. I'm unsure if this is due to possible pressures to meet a specific requirement(s), or what. I'd rather forgo ALL restrictions and let creativity flow, let the story be told without pressure to fill a specific amount of time, etc. but TV production is weird. And contracts are weird. tvN might not to blame for these issues, could simply be that storytelling isn't always easy, man. I'm a writer myself, it's hard! I'M being redundant now lmfao! Anyway, yeah ~

Absolutely LOVED all the scenes that were filmed on location in beautiful Québec City, Canada 🍁 Tall, romantic trees, the fall foliage, historic buildings... sigh. Now all I need is Gong Yoo chasing me and we're all set! ;D

In addition to Shin being revived, my crush on Gong Yoo has been revived as well LOL. He fine 🔥 A classic K drama crush, can't go wrong with GY👌

Gong Yoo is always stellar at doing kiseu (kiss) scenes, and in Goblin, he does not disappoint. He really goes at it 🙈 which is preferred vs. the typical person kissing a stone statue that you see so often. He even did a lift kiss with Kim Go Eun that was reminiscent of THEE Coffee Prince kiss he did with actress Yoon Eun Hye! 😍

I never saw it coming, how the sword would wind up being removed from Shin's chest. I worried what the writers were going to do, how would they approach this, and just wow. The way things turned out is such a relief. It also told me that Shin's love for Eun Tak is true. I mean, I didn't need that scene to occur for me to know that, rather it just adds extra oomph that yes, Shin really does love Eun Tak. He didn't want her to suffer knowing she was responsible for his "death," so he thought quick and used her hands WITH his hands asdfghjkl. How dumb (bc noooo now you're gonna die) and amazing he is at the same time 💜

I love how Shin made his way back to Eun Tak after passing away, it was such a powerful scene. I could really feel his struggle, and kept yelling at my TV for him to stand up lol!

Devastated that Eun Tak died 😭 I really thought as many times as she'd cheated death before, she would somehow continue cheating death again and again for the rest of her days. But no... What a selfless person, Ji Eun Tak. Her being reincarnated as Park So Min gave me some closure. Not the closure I wanted, but closure.

The relationship between Shin and Reaper is ADORABLE. Whenever they interact with each other, they just have this great dialogue. Shin pings, Reaper pongs, Reaper pings, Shin pongs. It's great 😄 I still laugh about the slow-mo scene of them returning from the market with green onions HAHAHA 😂

I love Sunny & Reaper ~ However, their history as Kim Sun & Wang Yeo in their past lives is so very sad. I don't even know where to start RE: my feelings on this 💔 imo, their ending kinda sucked. I just wasn't satisfied with them having had this complicated, tragic story, only to be reincarnated in this fashion that I ultimately found to be just... idk, disappointing 😩 Again, closure, but not the closure I wanted.

I thought Reaper, the other grim reapers, the name cards, the depiction of what happens immediately following death with the brewing of the tea, the afterlife, etc. was all very creative. We really don't know what awaits us when our time comes—it's interesting to wonder if it's anything like it is in Goblin 🍵

Can't stop thinking about Goblin, even though I'm now watching Thirty but Seventeen & Mr. Sunshine! I'm emotionally cheating lol halp.

Photo credits: tvN & AsianWiki

Yo yo! I'm sorry I took so long to watch + write up this review! It's been a long couple of weeks for me, I wasn't always able to watch when I wanted. It was maddening 😆 But I have finally watched, and feel like the most accomplished person on the planet hahaha. xoxo 💜