#it's okay to understand where BOTH mirri and dany are coming from and to not reduce the situation to such a trite statement

[witchqueenvisenya]

saying that dany "burned a slave alive" is a statement that is factually true and yet incorrect not only because it takes away from the context of the situation but also the identity of who and what mirri was to dany, because... there's a whole group of people in asoiaf who commit atrocities against slaves because they're slaves and thus subhuman to them. daenerys burned mirri because she was the murderer of her child and that's it. because that's something mirri as much as admits to as well as goads dany into believing was the right thing because of the stallion prophecy. but when there actually are atrocities being committed against slaves and someone (dany) decides to act against the people responsible, suddenly it's an evil and dangerous and insane act. because it can't possibly be right that all the slavers were wrong. because it just so happens that a targaryen was on the other side of the equation. because it just so happens that THE targaryen was on the other side of the equation. you know, the one that this fandom loves to hate just because.

[aish-rai]

I don't "think" they see her as a Hitler-esque character. Those were their exact words. What show are you watching/books reading if you don't see how Dany's problematic? As far as Dany's governorship, this is a person who destabilized an entire region, caused the deaths of thousands and thousands of people and who, I'm pretty sure, hasn't actually learned how not to repeat her mistakes. She gets burned by Mirri, then turns around and confides in the Green Grace, another seemingly harmless

Okay let’s get this out of the way, do you actually want to discuss this or are you just itching for a fight? Because you’re basically screaming at me knowing full well how I feel and I’m really not in the mood to argue just to argue. If you want to discuss the story, that’s fine, but I don’t like someone provoking me just for the hell of it.

I know what they said, but that doesn’t mean they LITERALLY see her as the Hitler of Westeros. Is she charismatic and a little terrifying? Sure, and that might have brought about the tasteless but inaccurate comparison. But if you’re going to take their words at face value, you also have to assume that Hitler makes them feel...aroused? Which seems unlikely. Dany doesn’t promote a master race; in fact, even when she’s making mistakes, she’s still doing it to try to achieve some kind of social equality. She doesn’t kill indiscriminately, she doesn’t lose sight of the value of a human life. Even when she takes the masters’ children as prisoners, she’s fond of them and never wants to have to hurt them. If ANYONE in Westeros is a Hitler-esque character, it’s someone like Joffrey. You can’t seriously tell me you see genuine similarities between Joffrey and Dany. You’re criticizing her for helping/confiding in people who end up not being trustworthy like Mirri and the Green Grace, but at the end of the day her goals in that regard are pretty simple: she wants to help people like Mirri, and she seeks counsel from others and tries to come up with a compromise. Does that backfire? Yeah, of course, because this is Game of Thrones and having good intentions doesn’t automatically translate to good leadership. She had no training, she’s learning as she goes along, but she’s also surrounded by grown ass men (when she’s essentially a child) who can’t agree on the “right” way to handle things. If we’re talking about political acumen, there’s no doubt that the Dany who captures Astapor and the one who flies out of Meereen are different people. She knows she fucked up. She knows that her decisions have consequences. She realizes that she has to compromise and that there’s no way she can possibly fix everything for everyone. I assume you’ve read the books, so you’re read her inner thoughts, and you must see that?

She...crucifies slave owners, iirc. And she pays for it down the road. But there are some acts which are indefensible and while being merciful might have been the SMARTER choice, she drew a hard line at owning other human beings and that’s not unreasonable given that she herself was owned by Drogo (and her brother too, if we’re being honest). Which brings me to another inconsistency: how can you say she LET Drogo do anything? She could exert VERY little influence over him at best. She certainly had no power to change his ways or the ways of the Dothraki in general. You can’t have it both time and say she disrupted an entire civilization, but then criticize her for not interfering in the ways of the Dothraki. She was appalled by it, but there was nothing she could do to stop it. When she DID have the power to save some women...one killed her husband and a her child. And yet she still thought that slaving and raping was wrong and that those crimes should be punished. She’s never wavered on that fact.

Once again, this is hypocritical considering that you just criticized her for destabilizing Meereen, and when she does finally compromise when that’s what the people are begging her for (allowing them to sell themselves, or reopening the fighting pits despite hating every second of it), she’s criticized for that also. I also believe the Green Grace is the Harpy, but that hasn’t been confirmed yet and the idea that she should never trust anyone with anything or take anyone’s counsel because they might betray her is ridiculous.

And she IS the rightful heir of Westeros, at the moment anyway. I’m sure the show will somehow manage to make sure that Rhaegar and Lyanna’s marriage was legitimized, but that’s not necessarily how it’s going to go down in the books and right now, given what we know about her, Jon, and f!Aegon (bruh we all know he’s not actually her nephew come on now), she does have a legitimate claim to the throne. Jon has lived his life in a frozen wasteland but still might end up ruling the Seven Kingdoms, very few people actually understand the entirety of the realm the need to rule but that’s what you take counsel for. And Dany does do that. She’s open to learning. She has some very stubborn Targaryen traits, but she is clearly not like her father or brother and her having trouble coming to terms with the fact that her father was a crazy motherfucker isn’t really a legitimate basis for criticism. I can’t believe you’d even bring that up lol like, she’s a girl who was taught to idolize her father, you’re surprised it’s taking her awhile to come around to the fact that he was nothing like what she was told? 

People were already dying in those nations! Babies were being slaughtered! Yeah, she fucked up and she knows she fucked up but it’s not like she disrupted a paradise, someone needed to do something and she certainly didn’t do ENOUGH but one hell already existed before it was replaced by another hell. The brilliance of what GRRM did with Dany’s character is that she’s not a stock fantasy heroine, she makes mistakes and people pay for them! That is the case for every single other person in contention for the Iron Throne! Unfortunately, when leaders and politicians mess up, people die, that’s the burden of ruling and one she struggles with CONSTANTLY in her chapters. 

Yes, because the story isn’t over and she’s currently the best candidate for the job. Wtf? And you can’t blame Dany for her enemies seeking vengeance against her by killing innocents. She’s not destroying Meereen, other people are because she took power. Because they want to return to a society where they own other human beings and use, abuse, and murder them indiscriminately. People have died during her rise to power but she’s pretty much the only one who has had to shoulder that level of responsibility at this point in the story. When Robb Stark declared war on the Lannisters, thousands of people died, not just those who knowingly fought for him but innocents as well. It’s inevitable in a war, that doesn’t mean the pursuit of the cause is pointless.

Sorry but this is just silly. Her ENTIRE interior life is her second-guessing herself and weighing her options and the consequences they bring. I don’t disagree that she’s going to go through a major change after being captured by the khalasar, and stop trying to save everyone she comes across. But it’s ridiculous to call her willfully ignorant and to assume that she’s going to become a mindless destroyer. She’s not bloodthirsty, she’s never exhibited those qualities. She’s LEARNED that she can’t fix everything and that she needs to move on and fulfill her destiny, and she’s clearly going to become a very important person in the fight against the White Walkers (and by this time, I think we all know she’s the younger and more beautiful queen destined to end Cersei’s reign). 

We actually see her through Barristan Selmy’s POV, through Quentyn’s POV, and through Varys/Illyrio’s and Jorah’s POVs via their conversations with Tyrion. So that’s just not true. There’s a fuck ton that makes her sympathetic, not the least of which because she doesn’t see herself as the greatest ruler ever the way Cersei does. Entitled, perhaps, but constantly unsure of herself and worried for her people. Read any of her chapters and that’s pretty obvious.

I feel like we read a different book series. I mean, shit.