elistarrk

[elistarrk]

it’s so funny to me that jiang cheng is actually kind and selfless and shrewd and skilled and persistent and would be considered exceptional in every way if wei wuxian wasn’t so fucking insane and self-sacrifice-happy that he moves the overton window of judgement off the reasonable scale completely. like, in the story, wwx’s one-in-million talent is what makes jc’s 99th percentile skills appear unremarkable. and the same fucking thing happens in fandom discourse around their moral character, and it’s just. so funny.

[elistarrk]

Walk, walk, fashion, baby

[elistarrk]

Incorrect MDZS Quote

jin guangyao: jiang-zongzhu, i'm afraid i must address your language around a-ling. as creative as he is at stringing together obscenities, it is quite disconcerting to come out of the mouth of a round-faced six year old rather than a drunkard in some seedy tavern. jiang cheng: i don't see how this is my problem, jin-zongzhu. sounds like you need to get a better handle on your sect if you don't want them to inspire further insult. jin guangyao: surely you must realize this type of behavior will only make it harder for jin rulan to garner support as a sect leader in the future. it's frankly unbecoming of a sect heir, as you should be well aware. but perhaps i was wrong to expect a better influence from someone raised with the knowledge of a sect leader's responsibilities. jiang cheng: pft. what are you? my dad? jin guangyao:   jiang cheng:  jin guangyao:   jiang cheng: jin guangyao:   jiang cheng: jin guangyao: ...i see. jiang cheng: if you don't wipe that stupid fucking pitying smile off your face right the fuck now, my fist will.

[elistarrk]

rabbit buns

image source

after wei wuxian's death, the yunmeng jiang sect is poor in everything from manpower and public goodwill to actual funds, so jiang cheng is open to all possible avenues of revenue and/or goodwill generation for his sect.

then, someone floats the idea of the ancient chinese equivalent of a bake sale. as it turns out, jiang yanli had taught jiang cheng many of her dessert recipes before she left for lanling, and jiang cheng thinks that it would be a massive waste to let these recipes disappear. so jiang cheng agrees to give selling some of his baked goods a shot.

to jiang cheng's surprise, his custard buns (no innuendo) are a massive hit - especially the novelty rabbit-shaped ones. as it turns out, the real draw is not just the buns themselves (though they are aesthetically pleasing and do taste quite good), but rather the sight of sect leader jiang, fully decked out in the aprons and headwear of a baker, swearing his ass off as he wrestles with a wad of dough. furthermore, because jiang cheng is too busy and too proud to spend that much time baking, he only makes a small number of sweets - thus, everything he bakes is also limited edition and exclusive, and yunmeng jiang gets away with charging more. 

thus, yunmeng jiang's bake sake is a massive success, and jiang cheng decides to make it a biannual event.

meanwhile, lan xichen can tell that lan wangji is doing really badly in seclusion. even though lan wangji has a-yuan to consider, mentally and emotionally, he's still rapidly declining.

as a desperate last measure, lan xichen travels to yunmeng in the hopes of finding something that will remind lan wangji, in a non-tragic sense, of wei wuxian. and when he finds out about yunmeng jiang's bake sale - more specifically, when he sees the rabbit-shaped custard buns that jiang cheng made on a whim - he feels as if he's struck gold. wangji loves rabbits. these desserts are shaped like rabbits. what a splendid idea!

as for who made the desserts....well, what wangji doesn't know won't hurt him.

so lan xichen buys a large order of rabbit buns and brings them back to lan wangji and a-yuan. a-yuan is immediately enamored by the rabbit buns, and lan wangji is cheered to see that wei ying's child(?) also loves wei ying's favorite animal. 

thus, the rabbit buns become somewhat of a source of strength for lan wangji. and lan wangji forms an emotional attachment to these rabbit buns specifically: while other bakers also make rabbit-shaped buns, the taste is different and somehow they are not as cute. thus, even when lan xichen tells lan wangji that the baker who made these rabbit buns only releases them twice a year, lan wangji still is not deterred - instead, surviving and recovering well enough to eat those same rabbit buns half a year later becomes a source of motivation for lan wangji in his journey to recovery. 

because lan wangji is an exceptionally strong cultivator, he actually ends up recovering physically from the damage dealt by the 33 lashings after only 2 years, after which he signals he is ready to exit seclusion. however, lan wangji then finds out just where lan xichen has been getting those rabbit buns for the past two years. this information is so horrifying to him that it sends him right back into seclusion for another year. 

so the rabbit buns were made by the loathsome jiang wanyin. truly one can rely on him to ruin all that was pure and good. well, lan wangji supposes, then he will simply have to give up on the rabbit buns, because he refuses under all circumstances to even touch anything created by jiang wanyin. 

.....except he can't do it. the rabbit buns are too good. they are too cute, soft and white and fluffy just like a real rabbit. and they taste divine, perfectly balancing a subtle yet unique sweetness in a way that no other baker can quite match. when yunmeng jiang announces the return of their bake sale, before lan wangji even realizes what he's doing, he's aleady filled out the preorder form. 

thus, for the next 10 years, lan wangji continues to be the number 1 patron of the yunmeng jiang biannual bake sale. lan wangji soon becomes paranoid about jiang cheng figuring out that it's him ordering the rabbit buns, so he quickly devises some system by which other lan disciples order the buns on his behalf. this way, lan wangji reassures himself as he guiltily nibbles on a rabbit bun, at least jiang wanyin won't know that the orders are coming from him. 

and then wei ying returns, everything hits the fan, and then there's the debacle at the lotus pier ancestral hall. and then there's the other debacle at the guanyin temple. and then wei ying starts living with lan wangji at the cloud recesses, and refuses to mention jiang wanyin's name at all.

but this is all well and good, because jiang wanyin is terrible and wei ying is good and so wei ying must be protected. jiang wanyin will only hurt wei ying, so lan wangji is correct in encouraging wei ying to stay away. and if wei ying seems to shine a bit less brightly than he did before.....well, nothing in life is perfect. 

and then comes the time for the yunmeng jiang biannual bake sale. lan wangji fills out his preorder form as per usual, only to receive a notice afterwards that he has been banned. 

[elistarrk]

Honestly Wang Zhuocheng worked too damn hard on studying and expressing Jiang Cheng's emotions for y'all to completely misunderstand the damn cliff scene.

I love the Wangxian bit but are we gonna ignore the grief and horror on Jiang Cheng's face? Are we only fixated on the anger? And let me be clear! It's resentment, impulse and anger. NOT HATRED.

Also y'all ignored that part at the start where Jingyi says Jiang Cheng killed Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng goes 🥺☹️.

Every single bit of Wang Zhuocheng's acting is so important in this show because that man STUDIED Jiang Cheng. He knows Jiang Cheng better than anyone so put some respect on his name!!!

[elistarrk]

rabbit buns

image source

after wei wuxian's death, the yunmeng jiang sect is poor in everything from manpower and public goodwill to actual funds, so jiang cheng is open to all possible avenues of revenue and/or goodwill generation for his sect.

then, someone floats the idea of the ancient chinese equivalent of a bake sale. as it turns out, jiang yanli had taught jiang cheng many of her dessert recipes before she left for lanling, and jiang cheng thinks that it would be a massive waste to let these recipes disappear. so jiang cheng agrees to give selling some of his baked goods a shot.

to jiang cheng's surprise, his custard buns (no innuendo) are a massive hit - especially the novelty rabbit-shaped ones. as it turns out, the real draw is not just the buns themselves (though they are aesthetically pleasing and do taste quite good), but rather the sight of sect leader jiang, fully decked out in the aprons and headwear of a baker, swearing his ass off as he wrestles with a wad of dough. furthermore, because jiang cheng is too busy and too proud to spend that much time baking, he only makes a small number of sweets - thus, everything he bakes is also limited edition and exclusive, and yunmeng jiang gets away with charging more. 

thus, yunmeng jiang's bake sake is a massive success, and jiang cheng decides to make it a biannual event.

meanwhile, lan xichen can tell that lan wangji is doing really badly in seclusion. even though lan wangji has a-yuan to consider, mentally and emotionally, he's still rapidly declining.

as a desperate last measure, lan xichen travels to yunmeng in the hopes of finding something that will remind lan wangji, in a non-tragic sense, of wei wuxian. and when he finds out about yunmeng jiang's bake sale - more specifically, when he sees the rabbit-shaped custard buns that jiang cheng made on a whim - he feels as if he's struck gold. wangji loves rabbits. these desserts are shaped like rabbits. what a splendid idea!

as for who made the desserts....well, what wangji doesn't know won't hurt him.

so lan xichen buys a large order of rabbit buns and brings them back to lan wangji and a-yuan. a-yuan is immediately enamored by the rabbit buns, and lan wangji is cheered to see that wei ying's child(?) also loves wei ying's favorite animal. 

thus, the rabbit buns become somewhat of a source of strength for lan wangji. and lan wangji forms an emotional attachment to these rabbit buns specifically: while other bakers also make rabbit-shaped buns, the taste is different and somehow they are not as cute. thus, even when lan xichen tells lan wangji that the baker who made these rabbit buns only releases them twice a year, lan wangji still is not deterred - instead, surviving and recovering well enough to eat those same rabbit buns half a year later becomes a source of motivation for lan wangji in his journey to recovery. 

because lan wangji is an exceptionally strong cultivator, he actually ends up recovering physically from the damage dealt by the 33 lashings after only 2 years, after which he signals he is ready to exit seclusion. however, lan wangji then finds out just where lan xichen has been getting those rabbit buns for the past two years. this information is so horrifying to him that it sends him right back into seclusion for another year. 

so the rabbit buns were made by the loathsome jiang wanyin. truly one can rely on him to ruin all that was pure and good. well, lan wangji supposes, then he will simply have to give up on the rabbit buns, because he refuses under all circumstances to even touch anything created by jiang wanyin. 

.....except he can't do it. the rabbit buns are too good. they are too cute, soft and white and fluffy just like a real rabbit. and they taste divine, perfectly balancing a subtle yet unique sweetness in a way that no other baker can quite match. when yunmeng jiang announces the return of their bake sale, before lan wangji even realizes what he's doing, he's aleady filled out the preorder form. 

thus, for the next 10 years, lan wangji continues to be the number 1 patron of the yunmeng jiang biannual bake sale. lan wangji soon becomes paranoid about jiang cheng figuring out that it's him ordering the rabbit buns, so he quickly devises some system by which other lan disciples order the buns on his behalf. this way, lan wangji reassures himself as he guiltily nibbles on a rabbit bun, at least jiang wanyin won't know that the orders are coming from him. 

and then wei ying returns, everything hits the fan, and then there's the debacle at the lotus pier ancestral hall. and then there's the other debacle at the guanyin temple. and then wei ying starts living with lan wangji at the cloud recesses, and refuses to mention jiang wanyin's name at all.

but this is all well and good, because jiang wanyin is terrible and wei ying is good and so wei ying must be protected. jiang wanyin will only hurt wei ying, so lan wangji is correct in encouraging wei ying to stay away. and if wei ying seems to shine a bit less brightly than he did before.....well, nothing in life is perfect. 

and then comes the time for the yunmeng jiang biannual bake sale. lan wangji fills out his preorder form as per usual, only to receive a notice afterwards that he has been banned. 

[elistarrk]

Yes!! Also adding @via-likes-noodles 's tags to this thread bc I really don't see any other viable options for him here!

#Jin Guangshan lit has the only family Jiang Cheng has left on his hands#What the f is Jiang Cheng supposed to do#For all he knows Wei WuXian has 100% lost control and very easily can the other clans blame him for not stopping him#This man lit only has three options#one - join WWX and be destroyed by the rest of the cultivation world and leave his newborn nephew alone in a nest of vipers#two - choose neither side and allow his brother to be murdered by others and his sect scorned while also losing access to his nephew#three - begrudgingly accept that his brother is too far gone and try to confront him before any other sects reach him#I pity Jiang Cheng so goddamn much cus this man just keeps trying to put out fires that he can see from afar are gonna ruin everything#while Wei WuXian’s moral compass keeps going “fuck the political implications this is wrong and I won’t stand it” but has no long term plan

I know it’s probably been more than beaten to death by this point but it’s interesting that any time the first siege comes up, Jiāng Cheng is given the lion’s share of the blame. Yes, I’m aware he brought the most man power and he’s the one the cultivation world points to as having killed Wei Wuxian. But on the opposite end he’s the youngest sect leader in this hell mob, one who has literally lost all his family in a very short amount of years. Who has been shown to be manipulated by Jin Guangshan before. Jin Guangshan who uses everyone, especially his own sons, as a weapon against the rest of the cultivation world to gain power without getting his own hands dirty. Who would love to take a grief stricken, maddened young man and tell him this is his fault and he has to clean up the mess he allowed to happen. It really makes one wonder what happened during those three months between Nightless and the Siege.

I’m not excusing Jiang Cheng’s involvement to be clear, but I do wonder how much Jin Guangshan influenced the events since he’s a driving force through a lot of Wei Wuxian’s downfall in one way or the other.

[elistarrk]

Yes! He is very much Jiang Yanli's brother!

The thing with Jiang Cheng is that you have to look beyond the way he says things to really understand him. Something Wei Wuxian used to be good at and something Jin Ling understands implicitly.

And what you find is... shockingly not nearly as angry as you'd expect given his shitshow of a life.

Yes, he hit Wei Wuxian with Zidian upon suspecting him at Dafan Mountain, but considering that as cultivators their job is eliminating resentful spirits and Zidian is a weapon that casts out possessing resentful spirits... honestly understandable. The logic is there. Especially given that from the information Jiang Cheng had, (Wei Wuxian went crazy and killed a lot of people after murdering Jin Zixuan for an unknown reason when the man had been kind enough to invite Wei Wuxian to his son's 100 day celebration) the idea of him being a resentful evil spirit isn't all that big of a jump to make.

And then when he finally corners him in Qinghe, the alarm bells of "protagonist in danger oh no" start going off, but the dude just throws a fresh cup of tea on the floor, shows him a well-trained dog (yeah objectively dick move on that one but nearly infallible way to confirm this is in fact Wei Wuxian), and demands an explanation and for Wei Wuxian to apologize to his parents and his sister. And ofc (deservedly) chews Wei Wuxian out for insulting a kid who his actions made an orphan.

Removing all the "oh scary angry man" from his tone, what he's asking for... isn't all that unreasonable actually? In fact, it's honestly the absolute minimum. He deserves to know what the fuck happened and why Wei Wuxian lied about having things under control until their sister paid the price. He just wants to understand, wants to see Wei Wuxian take responsibility and regret it.

Jiang Cheng had Wei Wuxian alone, at his mercy. The man who he hates that he can't hate. Who promised to stick by his side but then left for the sake of people from the family that massacred theirs. Who killed his brother in law. Whose corpses he claimed he could control attacked his sister. Who Jiang Cheng had trusted beyond measure but had been made to pay for that trust in the worst way imaginable at every turn.

And he just ties him up and scolds him.

If Jiang Cheng was any less forgiving, if he really was as resentful as the fandom likes to believe, he had every opportunity to carry out whatever revenge he wanted on the man right then. Who's gonna stop him? The Jiang sect is the "fuck around and find out" sect after the 13-year skip. Even Lan Wangji doesn't exactly have a leg to stand on attacking Jiang Cheng at that moment. As far as anyone knows, Mo Xuanyu was practicing demonic cultivation, and Lan Wangji had just met him. No one's acted against the rumor of Jiang Cheng "killing and torturing demonic cultivators" over the years, so why would they choose to now? What's Lan Wangji gonna say? "Don't kill him, that's Wei Wuxian"? If anything, that'd make the cultivation world at that point support Jiang Cheng's actions even more! They set up stone guardians to prevent him from coming back! And as powerful as Lan Wangji is, he can't go against the whole cultivation world.

But Jiang Cheng is as much Jiang Yanli's brother as he is Yu Ziyuan's son. And he just wants to know why. He wants to know that Wei Wuxian regrets what he has done. That he recognizes how much he has hurt him and actually cares about that.

And I think, some part of him in the back of his mind, wants to know that he hadn't been wrong to trust him, to give his life for him. That, of all the people he had ever known and loved until Jin Ling's birth, it wasn't his fault that he was the only one left standing.

Did anyone else also think that perhaps part of the reason Jiang Cheng’s so angry at Wei Wuxian (post-death and resurrection)—that is, beyond the multitude of reasons that were very much valid—is because of misplaced anger at Jiang Yanli?

Yanli…fucked up. Big time. Somewhere along the way, in her attempts to keep the peace, to give her brothers the childhood she was robbed of, Jiang Yanli helped make the fractures between her brothers worse. Somewhere between lotus roots and pork rib soup and a war that destroyed their home, Jiang Yanli may have accidentally followed in her father’s footsteps when it comes to treating Wei Wuxian as more. And we can’t even blame her for that, because it never should’ve been her job to play mom to two kids barely younger than her. I certainly don’t, and neither did Jiang Cheng.

I think Jiang Cheng would’ve been perfectly happy playing second fiddle to Wei Wuxian when it came to Yanli, because Jiang Cheng was always Wei Wuxian’s favorite. And they both loved her best. Even if it meant that no one except Jiang Cheng tried to curb his recklessness, or attempted to teach him the art of subtlety. Wei Wuxian was awarded freedom for as long as Jiang Cheng could survive being constricted as the heir. There’s a whole analysis there about Wei Wuxian’s attitude being a product of JFM and YZY’s fuckupery, but we ain’t getting into that today.

Point is, these three had their own little thing going, and it worked. For as long as their childhoods lasted, that is. That relationship was robbed alongside the last vestiges of their innocence. But for all that Jiang Cheng had accepted his lot in life, I don’t think he ever expected Jiang Yanli to do what she did. Die for Wei Wuxian? Absolutely. But dying for him on a battlefield after he killed her husband and she has a newborn at home? Absolutely not.

Fact is, Jiang Yanli’s death had major repercussions. For one, it left Jiang Cheng well and truly alone, and orphaned a baby into his care. Two, it gave Jin Guangshan even more ammunition against the Yiling Patriach and the Wens, because now both his son and daughter in law were dead at Wei Wuxian’s inexplicable hand. Three, the Jiang Sect’s only major ally were the Jins, bought through Jin Zixuan, who was now dead. That alone fucked them over so badly it’s a wonder Jiang Cheng pulled enough a miracle out of his ass in only 13 years. Fourth and finally: Jiang Yanli’s death was so avoidable and caused so much grief that there is no way Jiang Cheng never resented her even a little bit.

And boy, would that have made him hate himself even more. He loves Yanli, so the fact that he would sometimes hate her—in the moments where he would have to grovel to the Jins, or care for Jin Ling all on his own—probably killed him. He can’t hate her, not when she lost herself to raise him.

So he hates Wei Wuxian instead. For being so arrogant and stupid that he killed Jin Zixuan. For putting himself in such a position their sister had to run into a battlefield to protect him. For refusing to listen ever. He’s got a mile long list of issues against Wei Wuxian; what’s one more?

Is it healthy? No. Is it right? Not really. Was anyone around to help him (like a fucking therapist)? Also no! Was Jiang Cheng ever given enough support OR taught how to work through his feelings in a remotely healthy way? …have you seen his parents?

Nobody in this series was emotionally stable, and everyone needed therapy.

[elistarrk]

this is the FUNNIEST thing ive ever read in m y entir e life lmao

[elistarrk]

i swear sometimes it really is like this fr

I sincerely wonder sometimes why any and all criticism of Jiang Fengmian’s treatment of Wei Wuxian vs Jiang Cheng is read in the vilest, cruelest way possible.

Guys. No one is saying that Jiang Fengmian should treat Wei Wuxian worse. We just think he should’ve treated Jiang Cheng (and Jiang Yanli to an extent) BETTER.

Why is the immediate interpretation to defend Jiang Fengmian’s shit parenting and extremely obvious preferencial treatment simply because you think Wei Wuxian deserves the best? Like yes, Wei Wuxian absolutely deserved a good home with loving, safe guardians! That doesn’t mean Jiang Cheng deserved to be treated as lesser than by his own damn father???

And Jiang Fengmian was so obvious with it too! No matter how you interpret that clusterfuck of a childhood, the entire jianghu saw it as one specific thing: Jiang Fengmian loved Wei Wuxian and treated him so much better than his actual son, so therefore he must be a Jiang bastard. You know how insane and embarrassing that must’ve been for the Yus, Yu Ziyuan, Jiang Cheng, and Jiang Yanli?? That their leader/husband/father is so obvious in doting on one child over another that pretty much everyone thinks he’s the result of a sordid affair.

Good lord, we all know most parents have a favorite child. But at least they try not to make it so bloody obvious. Jiang Fengmian couldn’t even be bothered being seen making an effort; he just left it all to Jiang Yanli to fix, while he and his wife duked it out every 0.5 seconds.

Jiang Fengmian should’ve made an effort and try to show his kids equal love, not make it so obvious he preferred one over the others that even randos would’ve figured it out! His kids deserved better than that. His wife—no matter how you feel about her—deserved not to feel like the other woman in her own damn home. And no, it doesn’t matter if he thinks that his attitude and actions are not malicious, or his treatment towards Wei Wuxian vs Jiang Cheng makes sense as doting uncle vs strict Lord Father: all that matters is that those kids believe otherwise.

They know there was a difference in their upbringing. They felt the difference. They were the ones used as weapons against each other just to prove a point. They also know that Jiang Fengmian could’ve fixed it just by treating Jiang Cheng better, not treating Wei Wuxian worse. The fact that was Yu Ziyuan’s whole ass point and he kept missing it for over a decade was bloody well insane.

[elistarrk]

I will preface that Chengxian is not my top ship, so perhaps someone else can explain better, but for me a lot of the pull comes from how insane they are about each other and the lengths they are willing to go for each others' sake.

SPOILERS BELOW

Jiang Cheng is the only person Wei Wuxian has, for all intents and purposes, died for. Giving away his core was signing his life away! And Jiang Cheng tried to make the same sacrifice for him but uh of course that didn't turn out all that well (not that Wei Wuxian's did either because they're on the same cascade of events but at least the core sacrifice part was successful?)

And then there's the whole aspect of the narrative very much treating Jiang Cheng like the ex that sets the stage of wangxian. If you remove Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian's falling out/breakup from the story, there's not a lot of reason for Wei Wuxian to go with Lan Wangji, someone he hung around with for about 3 months and who constantly berated him about his cultivation.

There's also the less-deep things of the first scene describing Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian as childhood sweethearts, and Wei Wuxian's brilliant plan to convince Jiang Cheng it isn't him in Mo Xuanyu's body on Dafan Mountain is to proclaim he's not attracted to him. It's a little silly.

Also here's a few posts I've compiled that I think explain Chengxian pretty well! (organized by what I consider the most impactful phrase/sentence from them lol):

Chengxian all the way down

All-consuming obsession

Chengxian is raw

I knew from the moment I met you that I’d spend a lifetime forgiving you.

"you are mine"

Hope this helps!

Can anyone humor me- cause why do I keep seeing ppl romantically ship WWX with JC?

I haven't finished reading the comic nor novel, but as far as ik they aren't in better terms. Am I missing something? Was there a romantic thing that JC have that I didn't catch? I don't rlly have any opinion Abt this, just curious.

[elistarrk]

literally spent my walk home from work thinking about how what a masterclass in unreliable narration the first description of jiang cheng's discipline whip scars is

[elistarrk]

Yes! A lot of people fail to consider the political implications of the situation. Even without Jin Guangshan outright saying so, what does it look like if Jiang Cheng refuses to help or brings a less-than-adequate punishment on a man who seemingly turned against the cultivation world and murdered an unspecified number of people across the sects? Including a sect heir who was also Jiang Cheng's brother-in-law, and Jiang Cheng's own sister? They're the most at risk of retaliation for being seen as "not doing enough"! Especially when we've been shown what these people think of inaction in Wen Qing's case, and it could reasonably be argued that Jiang Cheng leaving the Wen remnants alone with Wei Wuxian the the Burial Mounds after his defection is a similar case of "SLJ didn't do anything to stop it when he could have, so he's just as guilty"?

Of course, we don't get much from Jiang Cheng's perspective (or really any narration of the siege at all) in the novel, but Jiang Cheng has consistently been shown to be one of the most politically-aware characters in the story. He's almost scarily good at predicting the consequences of actions, to the point where I've seen him referred to as Cassandra-like (see: threatening Wen Chao in Xuanwu Mountain and Jiang Cheng confronting Wei Wuxian at the Burial Mounds in particular).

If he doesn't attend the siege, it tells the world that he excuses or maybe even sanctioned Wei Wuxian's actions. And Yunmeng Jiang is still recovering from a massacre and won't survive if it's decided they must be held accountable for what his previous right hand man has just done. He needs a stronger way to show Yunmeng Jiang has condemned the Yiling Laozu.

Also keep in mind, Jiang Cheng doesn't know what the reader does about what really happened behind the scenes. Wei Wuxian doesn't tell him, and even confirms that he can't control it right before Jiang Yanli takes the sword for him. That was the one moment he actually outright told Jiang Cheng that everything was not fine, and by then it was too late to fix anything. The damage was already done, and most of the cultivation world was ready to hunt him down even if the battle at Nightless City hadn't happened.

And that's not even getting into what it looks like from Jiang Cheng's POV. He's getting such limited information this entire time, but he never fully turned against Wei Wuxian until the death of Jiang Yanli. That was the point of no return for him, and honestly, for good reason. With how close they all were growing up, the Wei Wuxian that Jiang Cheng knows would never even dream of hurting Jiang Yanli. A Wei Wuxian who had lost control enough to hurt her is no longer the almost-brother he knew. It's no longer the person he could trust so blindly. If he's capable of hurting Jiang Yanli, there's no telling what else he might do. The Wei Wuxian he knew is already dead.

I know it’s probably been more than beaten to death by this point but it’s interesting that any time the first siege comes up, Jiāng Cheng is given the lion’s share of the blame. Yes, I’m aware he brought the most man power and he’s the one the cultivation world points to as having killed Wei Wuxian. But on the opposite end he’s the youngest sect leader in this hell mob, one who has literally lost all his family in a very short amount of years. Who has been shown to be manipulated by Jin Guangshan before. Jin Guangshan who uses everyone, especially his own sons, as a weapon against the rest of the cultivation world to gain power without getting his own hands dirty. Who would love to take a grief stricken, maddened young man and tell him this is his fault and he has to clean up the mess he allowed to happen. It really makes one wonder what happened during those three months between Nightless and the Siege.

I’m not excusing Jiang Cheng’s involvement to be clear, but I do wonder how much Jin Guangshan influenced the events since he’s a driving force through a lot of Wei Wuxian’s downfall in one way or the other.

[elistarrk]

God yes on all of these points.

Particularly the Jin Ling being adopted by wangxian fanon because I just don't see the kid having any positive feelings about Lan Wangji at all post-canon! The dude put a silencing spell on him for badmouthing him just because he's related (and bears resemblance) to the man he hates! It's pretty obvious that it's not just because Jin Ling was being snarky that he got silenced, because Jingyi is just as bad and gets free rein. Jin Ling is a sect heir of a sect that LWJ has no jurisdiction in! And on top of that, he had reason to believe Lan Wangji might hurt an injured Jiang Cheng in the Guanyin temple, so much that the 13 year old kid threw himself between them. And in The Iron Hook extra, the fact that Wei Wuxian hears about how Jin Ling is doing from gossip proves they're not really keeping up with each other all that much. And then he threatens to get Lan Wangji to help beat him up? Jin Ling is 13! The idea of anyone in his family hitting him was a laughable concept before Wei Wuxian's resurrection!

That's not even going into how much Jin Ling and Jiang Cheng clearly care for each other. They are each other's support and understand each other like no one else, even more so post-canon! Jin Ling is the youngest sect leader now! And he's so protective of his Jiujiu that he tries to keep him from getting flak by getting involved in Jin sect matters.

Tl;dr, yes. Jin Ling should be allowed to have not-completely-positive feelings about wangxian.

9&10 for the violence ask game :3

Hello!! I assume this is for MDZS.

9. Worst part of canon

I say this with all the love in my heart but. Ms. MXTX. STOP KILLING ALL MY LADIES!! WHY IS MIANMIAN THE ONLY SURVIVOR. JUSTICE 4 QIN SU AND WEN QING.

Obviously, I think Jiang Yanli should have also survived but I understand not wanting to have to deal with the profoundly changed relationship between her and Wei Wuxian post-husband killing. Like, she wanted to write a romance and not have to deal with 300 extra pages of Wei Wuxian coming to terms with Shijie having negative feelings about him, I get it. But what, you couldn't stash Wen Qing with Wen Ning? Only room for one zombie in the Jin dungeons? What's up with that?

10. Worst part of fanon

The Jiang family bashing drives me nuts (although I admit to sometimes bullying Jiang Fengmian on this blog sometimes...for his milquetoast crimes...) Obviously the stuff around Jiang Cheng is the most noticeable because the antis are rabid about him, but the shijie haters perplex me the most. Like Jiang Cheng is at least kind of a bitch, but what did Jiang Yanli do?? Don't get me started on Madame Yu.

Alternately, anything that refers to Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji as the "parents" or parental figures of the juniors, particularly Jin Ling. Hanguang-jun hates that orphan. I mean, I'm joking, but... like, please think about Jin Ling's perspective. He has reasons to not like Lan Wangji very much! Lan Wangji can be a good mentor to Lan Sizhui and shitty to Jin Ling, and their respective relationships with him should reflect their canon interactions.

[elistarrk]

I couldn't get past the new official art..... my two Roman empires met

[elistarrk]

Thoughts about jl and jc relationship? I love them but their relationship is criticized a lot, I would love to hear your thoughts

Hi, anon! Very belatedly, here is an answer!

They love each other and Jin Ling is very secure in that love. It is very evident to me—and to Jin Ling himself—that Jiang Cheng loves Jin Ling and would die for him. Jin Ling trusts and relies on Jiang Cheng, and scoffs at the idea that his uncle has ever hit him, in a cultural context where corporal punishment is not unusual. Jin Ling goes to Jiang Cheng when he's crying. Jin Ling pushes back at Jiang Cheng, goes around him, and talks back to him fearlessly, with a sort of bratty entitlement rather than fearful defiance. This is not something a kid who is afraid of their guardian does. This is not something Jiang Cheng would have done with his own parents!

Jiang Cheng did a better job than his parents did with him. You might not personally want Jiang Cheng as a parent, but contrast him against his own soft-spoken father: I don't think Jin Ling would ever say that Jiang Cheng just didn't like him, or think to himself that Jiang Cheng wouldn't show up to save him. Jin Ling is way more secure in Jiang Cheng's affection for him than Jiang Cheng ever was when it came to Jiang Fengmian, and I don't think that's by accident. I think that's something that Jiang Cheng probably worked hard for. It is notable that Jiang Cheng, Jin Ling's maternal uncle, showed up for Jin Ling so consistently that Jin Ling has more trust in him than Jiang Cheng had in his own parents, despite being, like, twenty and running a sect by himself.

Jin Ling looks up to Jiang Cheng. Jin Ling, I think, patterns his behaviour after a couple of ideals. One of them I think, is an image of his father as a young and adventurous hero— young war hero Jin Zixuan, one of the best archers in his generation. (Also initially kind of a twerp with bad social skills, but Jin Ling doesn't know that.) And the other, I think, is Jiang Cheng. (He also very obviously cares for and admires Jin Guangyao, but I don't think he takes him as a model in the same way?) So Jiang Cheng is also important to Jin Ling as a role model. And why wouldn't he be? He's really good at a very hard job. (He's also, like, emotionally damaged from the war and its fallout, but realistically, a lot of the adults around Jin Ling would also be like that to some degree, especially in the Jiang sect.)

Jin Ling expresses care the way Jiang Cheng does, and that helps them understand and trust each other. Jin Ling also expresses his love in the same way that Jiang Cheng expresses his love: through defending the people he cares about. We see him do it when Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji want to enter Jin Guangyao's rooms, and again when Jiang Cheng is exhausted at the second siege of the Burial Mounds (Jin Ling just fucking scooping up Jiujiu and carrying him to safety remains hilarious to me). The scene where he thinks he hears Lan Sizhui say something about a ghost and he pops out and offers to kill the ghost for him also comes to mind. That's how you express affection if you're Jin Ling! He's going to put his foot in his mouth but if somebody threatens you, he's ready to go! Does this remind you of... anyone... like maybe Jiang Cheng, Mr. "Knife Mouth, Tofu Heart."

Jin Ling is definitely a little jerk sometimes, but I don't think it's fair to totally blame that on Jiang Cheng. Jin Ling's bad behaviour is often chalked up to Jiang Cheng being a bad guardian, but he's not the only influence at play: Jin Ling is at a terrible age. He's trying to individuate. He's at the centre of a lot of scrutiny because of his position, and potentially also danger. He's isolated and bullied in his home sect because he's an orphan, which, like, what the fuck. He splits time between two sects with wildly different philosophies and priorities, and probably gets a lot of conflicting messages about what's important and how he should act. His guardians have different parenting styles and priorities, and are themselves under a lot of scrutiny. People gossip about him, his dead parents, his live uncles—really viciously about Jin Guangyao— and probably his dead cousin, too. I would also probably be a very confused and angry teenager in those circumstances! Him acting out is not very surprising!

Jin Ling and Jiang Cheng are under a lot of stress during MDZS, and the way they relate to each other reflects that. Part of growing up is finding out your parents are people with, like, human frailties and their own trauma. Jin Ling's guardians have a LOT of human frailties and a LOT of trauma, and he finds out about it in detail during MDZS, in some pretty ugly ways. (We're shown that Jiang Cheng loves Jin Ling enough to shield him with his own body and that Jin Ling is comforted by Jiang Cheng's presence when he cries, but we also see Jiang Cheng give Jin Ling a pretty hard smack while he's freaking out in Guanyin Temple! Not good, although—based on what Jin Ling previously stated—not a usual behaviour from Jiang Cheng.) Despite this, I do think both Jiang Cheng and Jin Guangyao sincerely loved and tried to raise Jin Ling well. And they didn't do so bad! He's a snobby little brat with a mean mouth but he's also courageous, protective, empathetic, and willing to re-evaluate his beliefs when he's presented with new information!

Basically, I just think that you can be a flawed and harsh person and still love your kid enough that they turn out OK. Jin Ling's not perfect, by any means. But I think he's going to grow up into a pretty impressive adult, and I think no small part of that is because Jiang Cheng loves him, so, so much. (I also think that not all parental figures are great matches for every kid, but, like, these two just really get each other. Scorpio2scorpio communication.)

TL;DR I love them, they love each other, it's definitely not a perfect relationship and I understand why people react in a negative way to the thought of Jiang Cheng in a parental role (although I also think it's a mistake to assume that he parents like he was parented).

[elistarrk]

TianchengAU "There is a Demon Lord in my room but I can't take care of him because I have a job?!" Thank you again bestie @neurodivernon.... I wanted to make something similar as a true webcomic for the vibe haha Hope you will like it!