grumpy-old-fandommom

[grumpy-old-fandommom]

yes I know part of proship culture is calling out the harm that antis are doing and whatnot but my god at this point I should just scroll through the anti tags instead because guess what guys screenshotting someone saying that I’m a worthless piece of scum and calling that person a moron idiot doesn’t really make me feel much better because at the end of the day that person still thinks I’m a worthless piece of scum and I only know that because YOU told me

I swear I’m gonna make a side that’s solely for spreading proship positivity and joy like we need it so bad. We need more like @/proshipblackoutpoetry and @/proship-culture-is please I’m begging you guys. Our entire ordeal is not caring and having fun and the proship tags just aren’t very fun sometimes for some reason

I get the point you're trying to make, but this is an extremely funny ask to send to an account that's based almost solely on the controversy. With that being said, since the proship stance was spawned of ship wars, and while it would be nice to have a chill place, it's not that surprising that the tags are mostly full of posts talking about the drama. And frankly, I wouldn't be shocked if anti tags are extremely similar.

That unfortunately tends to be the case with drama-centric stances.

[grumpy-old-fandommom]

hi. former anti here. recently changed my ways and accept proshipping now. what can i expect from being a proshipper?

Well. If you do publicly label yourself as a proshipper, you can expect death threats from antis.

Past that, though, anticipate a peaceful life of simply blocking what disgusts you and moving on with your day, rather than stressing about what others write, draw, or interact with.

[grumpy-old-fandommom]

Bloody hell, that's absolutely mad behaviour

Glad you made it out

What she says: I hate antis

What she really means: I don’t mind people disliking a ship for their own reason but the anti-shipping movement is driven by hate and bandwagon bullying to police what people are “allowed” to enjoy. They use fundamentally abusive and manipulative tactics on real people in the name of protecting survivors from speculative things in fiction. Antis want to act morally superior over ship wars and claim that to ship something problematic you must be a survivor. By doing this antis force survivors who may be uncomfortable with coming out with their status to out themselves and then hold them to impossible standards. Except when it does come to survivors who ship anti-deemed problematic things we are attacked, harassed, and then pushed under the bus anyway. Antis trivialize terms such as abuse, rape, and pedophilia by using them so often and out of place against a group made up of many survivors and minors– the people they claim to be protecting. They have bullied and suicide baited artists and other content creators they dislike in the name of “policing the bad ships uwu.” All antis are at fault for this, even if an anti claims not to send hate themselves they are still influencing this bad behavior because they are part of this hate group. The entire anti-shipper movement is a toxic cesspool that makes me feel sick.

[grumpy-old-fandommom]

As one of the two people who managed to get otw-archive running on the open internet who is not OTW, I'd like you -- the public, the number of people recently saying 'make your own using their software' -- to sit down and try it.

While I strongly appreciate that message, being a firm believer in independent archives and a decentralized fandom umbrella, I can guarantee the people typing that as a 'gotcha' to the antis -- who are reprehensible at the best of times -- are not one of the people who got otw-archive running on a server with actual humans using it because there are only two of us. And again, I'm one of them. @squidgiepdx is the other.

There are only two of us because it's a viciously badly optimized disaster of software involving so many running processes in so many different languages that it took me fifty hours of work just to get it marginally functional and many more dedicated hours since then maintaining it. It constantly runs at 95% RAM usage on our server. I have a beautiful single-fandom archive for the effort, but by god, I am so, so tired of people who know jack shit of what they're talking about pretending like it's as easy as unzipping a package and making it run.

SquidgeWorld took so fucking much work. Walter did that. Ad Astra took so fucking much work. I did that. And we are both willing to help other people do that! We are both incredibly happy to offer our time and expertise to anyone else who wants to help us become more than TWO PEOPLE OUT OF SEVERAL BILLION to make that software run for archives that don't belong to OTW.

But stop pretending it's easy. That casual dismissal diminishes the amount of time, effort, frustration, tears and dedication that Walter and I gave to make our archives happen. I can't stand antis either, but boy, the amount of entitlement in fandom isn't gonna get better by ignoring how hard it is to make and build and maintain communities, especially in this world where you can't even get people go type 'Extra kudos' into a fucking comment box.

[grumpy-old-fandommom]

OP posted Oct 2016 and the needle feels like it's barely moved on any of this

What she says: I hate antis

What she really means: I don’t mind people disliking a ship for their own reason but the anti-shipping movement is driven by hate and bandwagon bullying to police what people are “allowed” to enjoy. They use fundamentally abusive and manipulative tactics on real people in the name of protecting survivors from speculative things in fiction. Antis want to act morally superior over ship wars and claim that to ship something problematic you must be a survivor. By doing this antis force survivors who may be uncomfortable with coming out with their status to out themselves and then hold them to impossible standards. Except when it does come to survivors who ship anti-deemed problematic things we are attacked, harassed, and then pushed under the bus anyway. Antis trivialize terms such as abuse, rape, and pedophilia by using them so often and out of place against a group made up of many survivors and minors– the people they claim to be protecting. They have bullied and suicide baited artists and other content creators they dislike in the name of “policing the bad ships uwu.” All antis are at fault for this, even if an anti claims not to send hate themselves they are still influencing this bad behavior because they are part of this hate group. The entire anti-shipper movement is a toxic cesspool that makes me feel sick.

[grumpy-old-fandommom]

Coming to the violent realization that pro-shippers are not in fact what I thought they were, and that I am in fact a proshipper.

I thought it meant like supporting “problematic” ships to the point that you thought they were okay in real life.

Turns out it’s just saying “let people make fiction of whatever they want” and I fully agree with that. So I guess I’m a proshipper then

[grumpy-old-fandommom]

The "if you don't want to get harassed, don't post your weird shit online" take has to be among the ones I hate the most. You're telling me I have to post "normal" stuff (whatever that means) or else the harassment is justified? That the one in the right is the person sending threats? That I can't even have a space for myself online? For fuck's sake.

[grumpy-old-fandommom]

"Proship" does not and has never meant "problematic ship"

The "pro" in "proship" is a prefix to mean "in favor of"

"Proship" was a label created after anti-[ship] was created

It has never meant "problematic ship"

If someone tells you that "proship" means "problematic ship" they are lying. Whether intentionally or not, they are perpetuating a lie spread by antishippers

[grumpy-old-fandommom]

casual reminder that you don’t need to try and sink all other ships in order to keep yours floating. this is not fucking battleship.

[grumpy-old-fandommom]

Sorry, it was unfair of me to send that to you without proper context since you might not be aware of these issues. Irredeemable media refers to any thing with a creator or content  that is harmful and/or bigoted. Of course every piece of media has problems, but irredeemable media is when those problems cannot be ignored and are an indicator of someone's beliefs. 

For example, Harry Potter is irredeemable media because every one knows that JK Rowling is a transphobe, but some other piece of media like Twilight would not be considered irredeemable because even though Stephanie Meyer has done some bad things, they are not as widely talked about, so someone who posts about Twilight on here isn't completely likely to be a bigot, but a Harry Potter blogger would. Also, I know the "to be cringe is to be free" people like your blog, but a lot of the time, what is considered cringey on here is actually based on what is irredeemable. No progressive person or reputable blogger genuinely makes fun of My Little Pony fans any more, however plenty make fun of Hazbin Hotel fans and the such because that content is irredeemable and shows someone's beliefs. So usually, a piece of media being considered embarassing to like on here usually indicates that it is irredeemable.

As for why the other pieces of media are irredeemable, Hazbin Hotel is made by a woman who has many well-documented accusations of bigotry against her and has drawn zoophilia art, not to mention how her work leans into stereotypes about gay people (having a gay man character be a sex addict, a lesbian be named after the female body part Vagina, etc.) or at least that's what I've heard. Attack on Titan is created by a known fascist and many illusions are made to nazi imagery and nationalism in the anime. Captive Prince has a racist premise that sexualizes slavery and non-con. 

People can tell you that liking irredeemable media doesn't say something about who they are, but that's fundamentally false. If someone is uncaring enough to still post openly about these types of media, it's clear they don't care enough about not supporting bigotry. Yes, even if they don't give money to the creators, because they are still willingly exposing themselves to bigoted or harmful content and enjoying it.

The previous ask was not meant to be accusatory. Rather it was meant as a concerned question. Believe it or not, there are still some users on here who indulge in these pieces of content, a few of which hide behind the excuse of being part of a minority (Black, trans, whatever) or simply deny how bad their media consumption is to escape accountability. I wouldn't want you associating with those types of people and have that ruin your reliability on this website.

Hopefully this ask has educated you more on these issues and you'll be able to spot irredeemable media in the future and block it out.

incredible essay, you get a C for Creativity

[grumpy-old-fandommom]

I have never read a more excellent article

[grumpy-old-fandommom]

Antis are a cult. Why? Argue. You have 4 hours. #antisrdumb

I wouldn't say antis are dumb, just really misguided since a lot of the antis I've seen are kids. The more I read into how Antis think and operate the more I think they could really use some counselling. And maybe their computers and phones taken off them if they're minors.

I'll start with my most recent concern: Shunning friends and family for not agreeing with them. In my pinned post you can see two such examples, and in one, the anti is told by their peer that their own mother is dangerous. This has happened in cults such as the Jehovah's Witnesses, in which they will shun their own family and friends for going against what the congregation is taught.

Then there's the behaviour control tactics. I've heard testimony from a former anti that they were encouraged to spy on their peers and report back on any problematic behaviour. There's also the classic example of Antis saying that, if you suffered abuse and you indulge in material containing abuse, you deserved it or you're as bad as your abuser. And much like I've seen cults and certain arms of Christianity do, Antis will deliberately ignore the scientific findings that prove otherwise simply because it doesn't fit the narrative.

Then there's the harassment campaigns. This is the sort of shit I've only seen from Scientology, and these campaigns have resulted in suicides or suicide attempts. There are actual victims, and as far as I know, US law says that suicide baiting resulting in death is still murder. (I'm not sure about Australian law or laws in the UK). These harassment campaigns have outed people who live in places where being LGBT will get you stoned to death, with these victims never heard from again, ruined careers and ruined lives. For instance, the Handsome Hugs incident, and the Zamii070 incident. Thankfully Zamii (or Paige) has managed to rebuild her life, though Ang isn't as lucky and is still struggling to this day. (Please donate to their GoFundMe so they can get back on their feet.) There's also the continued harassment of artists like IAmLunaSol, with someone encouraging one of the minors who accosted her at a convention to sneak in a gun. LunaSol has been handling the situation well enough, though that still doesn't make it okay. There's also the case of an anti telling a CSA survivor that they have the CSA material their abuser used the victim to make. I hope that was untrue, possession of CSEM is a crime that will put you on a registry and possibly in jail too.

While lacking any religious organisation that acts as the ultimate authority, Antis have exhibited too many cultlike behaviours that are extremely worrying. I blame this partially on the post 9/11 thinking of safety over freedom that has caused the younger generation to be fearful of their own shadows because it could be someone coming to hurt them. I encourage education on the topic, I'm happy to provide sources on psychological studies that have proved Antis wrong. Above all, don't sink to their level.

[grumpy-old-fandommom]

Oh, you're THAT Jhonny

FYI to my followers who aren't on Twitter, they're a right obnoxious wanker who has been on record for discrediting rape victims, don't even engage with them, just block them outright

Stop misappropriating the abuse and trauma cults use through purity culture for your stupid fucking shipping discourse? Holy fuck no wonder everyone hates this whole discourse.

Since when is "priests getting shuffled around after raping kids and kids being told they're sinful because they had bodily reactions to being SAd" comparable to "Bobo the clown said my ship was cringe"

I'm not gonna answer this with The Aristocrats, as a I threatened, because I want to make a very serious point to this anon:

Purity culture isn't just religious abuse. It is most widely connected to religious abuse. Including actions in the Catholic Church and all fundamentalist Christianity. It's entire existence is about terrifying and indoctrinating people into being fearful of their own actions and bodies so that they feel certain that moving out from the "umbrella of safety" (to use a fundamentalist term) will result in them being harmed in ways they can't imagine. This is generally happening at the same time as they are being harmed by those who are supposed to be keeping them safe from all those terrible, worldly evils. Like speaking up when you're being abused. Believing you are not responsible for the actions of a rapist, and many, many other things that any person with an ounce of self-worth and good sense (two things not allowed in fundamentalist circles) knows are true in abuse situations.

But the point of the purity culture as identity in the above-mentioned circles is to teach people from birth that they aren't to have their own feelings, ideas, or instincts. They are only to follow the feelings, ideas, and instincts on the approved list in order to stay within the structures they know and feel safe in even as they feel very unsafe.

That being said:

Purity culture can also exist WITHOUT a religious structure while still being about controlling the thoughts, feelings, and actions of everyone within it. In terms of fandom, purity culture is groups of people stating that if you write something uncomfortable or gross or immoral, then YOU must be uncomfortable or gross or immoral and therefore, not worthy of the safety and moral superiority of the group.

Purity culture without religion teaches black and white thinking, encourages thought policing, and shames anyone who steps outside of a very narrow definition of good and bad by turning an entire group of people against them for being "bad".

Just like in religious circles.

Just like in the cult of fundamentalism.

Purity culture is a term taken by fundamentalists and turned into a whole way of life because the goal of fundamentalism is to make people too scared to leave. Purity culture in fandom does the same thing. It uses fear and threats of abandonment/harassment to control the way people act because a group of people decided they didn't like something, so they must try and wipe it out rather than simply ignore it.

I am not mis-using the term because "Bobo the clown said my ship was cringe." My use of the term is intentional and precise because what is happening in fandom spaces now is non-religious purity culture cult thinking. My use of the term does not invalidate or water down the use of it in conversations about religious abuse and trauma. With or without religion, purity culture is a dangerous cult of "us vs them" that is built to demoralize and eradicate those deemed unworthy.

[grumpy-old-fandommom]

Stop misappropriating the abuse and trauma cults use through purity culture for your stupid fucking shipping discourse? Holy fuck no wonder everyone hates this whole discourse.

Since when is "priests getting shuffled around after raping kids and kids being told they're sinful because they had bodily reactions to being SAd" comparable to "Bobo the clown said my ship was cringe"

I'm not gonna answer this with The Aristocrats, as a I threatened, because I want to make a very serious point to this anon:

Purity culture isn't just religious abuse. It is most widely connected to religious abuse. Including actions in the Catholic Church and all fundamentalist Christianity. It's entire existence is about terrifying and indoctrinating people into being fearful of their own actions and bodies so that they feel certain that moving out from the "umbrella of safety" (to use a fundamentalist term) will result in them being harmed in ways they can't imagine. This is generally happening at the same time as they are being harmed by those who are supposed to be keeping them safe from all those terrible, worldly evils. Like speaking up when you're being abused. Believing you are not responsible for the actions of a rapist, and many, many other things that any person with an ounce of self-worth and good sense (two things not allowed in fundamentalist circles) knows are true in abuse situations.

But the point of the purity culture as identity in the above-mentioned circles is to teach people from birth that they aren't to have their own feelings, ideas, or instincts. They are only to follow the feelings, ideas, and instincts on the approved list in order to stay within the structures they know and feel safe in even as they feel very unsafe.

That being said:

Purity culture can also exist WITHOUT a religious structure while still being about controlling the thoughts, feelings, and actions of everyone within it. In terms of fandom, purity culture is groups of people stating that if you write something uncomfortable or gross or immoral, then YOU must be uncomfortable or gross or immoral and therefore, not worthy of the safety and moral superiority of the group.

Purity culture without religion teaches black and white thinking, encourages thought policing, and shames anyone who steps outside of a very narrow definition of good and bad by turning an entire group of people against them for being "bad".

Just like in religious circles.

Just like in the cult of fundamentalism.

Purity culture is a term taken by fundamentalists and turned into a whole way of life because the goal of fundamentalism is to make people too scared to leave. Purity culture in fandom does the same thing. It uses fear and threats of abandonment/harassment to control the way people act because a group of people decided they didn't like something, so they must try and wipe it out rather than simply ignore it.

I am not mis-using the term because "Bobo the clown said my ship was cringe." My use of the term is intentional and precise because what is happening in fandom spaces now is non-religious purity culture cult thinking. My use of the term does not invalidate or water down the use of it in conversations about religious abuse and trauma. With or without religion, purity culture is a dangerous cult of "us vs them" that is built to demoralize and eradicate those deemed unworthy.

[grumpy-old-fandommom]

What a glorious ratio, great jobs mates

Took off the person's Twitter screenshot since they want me to, but they strongly believe it is not common for minors to be negatively affected by fandom content of kids shipped with adults, at least not enough that adults should feel any responsibility at all about where they post it.

So feel free to add all the thoughts you want in notes, and if you'd rather be anonymous here's a poll (if you've never seen any such thing happening just skip it)

[grumpy-old-fandommom]

Pedophile working at Cartoon Network

Hey guys. I recently discovered (to the surprise of no one,) that a former storyboard artist/revisionist at Cartoon Network is a pedophile who gets off on rape art. 

Her name is Ang / Angela Vondra, tumblr handle @handsomehugs. 

https://pastebin.com/UP93F9x5

https://web.archive.org/web/20191211031744/twitter.com/defectivepaks She has a hidden Twitter account where she repeatedly posts artwork of Dib raping Zim. 

https://twitter.com/Jeraspat/status/1210989521870954496

______

CW:Rape CW:Pedophilia 

i feel i oughta put that trigger warning up there. I have work so but I’ll have to look into it, I saw their tumblr as well as they mope about how they’re being Bullied so I’mma like legit look into this when I find the time but i did see the ZADR shit so I’mma just:

[grumpy-old-fandommom]

Today is the rare instance I'm glad that a Tumblr post cannot be permanently deleted if it's already been reblogged

Pedophile working at Cartoon Network

Hey guys. I recently discovered (to the surprise of no one,) that a former storyboard artist/revisionist at Cartoon Network is a pedophile who gets off on rape art. 

Her name is Ang / Angela Vondra, tumblr handle @handsomehugs. 

https://pastebin.com/UP93F9x5

https://web.archive.org/web/20191211031744/twitter.com/defectivepaks She has a hidden Twitter account where she repeatedly posts artwork of Dib raping Zim. 

https://twitter.com/Jeraspat/status/1210989521870954496

______

CW:Rape CW:Pedophilia 

i feel i oughta put that trigger warning up there. I have work so but I’ll have to look into it, I saw their tumblr as well as they mope about how they’re being Bullied so I’mma like legit look into this when I find the time but i did see the ZADR shit so I’mma just: