hazedxg0

[hazedxg0]

So, when you say you're anti-endo, do you mean you don't believe in endos but support them existing if they stay separate from CDD community, or do you not support them at all? I don't really believe in endos but i support them having their community, so i just want to know if i'm breaking any boundaries by interacting :)

(you don't have to answer tho if you don't want to!)

Generally, I don't really care who interacts with me, so long as they don't try to change my mind on my stances (including about endos). Outside of that, if you want to interact with me, you can. I make my stances public so people can just block if they're uncomfortable, and so I don't have to debate people on these things because it can be very exhausting.

On endos specifically, I have developed my beliefs after years of living with DID, reading the actual scientific literature, and witnessing the discourse in online system communities. I have heard every pro-endo argument under the sun and none of them have even come close to convincing me.

I'm anti-endo because the science has proven completely that alters and systemhood are a trauma-based phenomenon and are inextricably linked to PTSD on a psychological, neurobiological and behavioural level. No "evidence" to the contrary has ever come close to the decades of research we have proving this fact, and as time goes on we find more and more evidence that proves this.

In my opinion, "endos" are either just paying closer attention to the different integrated parts that naturally make up a person's self and choosing to view those parts as separate when they aren't, or are mislabelling symptoms from another disorder (psychosis, BPD, OCD, maladaptive daydreaming, etc) as alters.

As to whether I support them having their own community, I'm undecided. Generally, if someone is choosing to label themself in an unscientific way, but they aren't openly spreading misinformation or inserting themselves into DID/OSDD spaces, I take a live and let live approach, even if I disagree with them. However, there are so many severely harmful issues that permeate endogenic communities and are interwoven with their history that I don't think I can ever support them. I don't hold any ill will towards individuals who label themselves that way, but I absolutely do hold resentment towards the endogenic community as a whole.

Below the cut I'm going to list and briefly elaborate on all of my gripes (that I can think of at this moment) with "endogenic systems". Do not try to change my mind on any of these, you will not succeed and if you try I will block you. Again, I've heard it all. I'm putting this here so people can know my stance and block me if they so wish, and so I can speak my piece and then hopefully never have to address this issue again.

Complete and utter scientific illiteracy

Endogenics and their supporters routinely prove that they have no idea how scientific research actually works and do not understand even just the fundamentals of the things they argue about. Not having scientific literacy doesn't make you a bad person, but you should not be participating in scientific debates if you cannot understand the basics of scientific research and theory.

An example of this: there are a few studies that endos say prove their existence. But when you read the studies, all the researchers did is interview a few people who claim to be "non-disordered plurals" and found that they seemed to be functioning well enough that a psychiatric diagnosis is probably not necessary. That does not prove that endos exist. If a study does not outline an actual psychological/neurobiological process in which alters and systemhood can form without trauma, accompanied by actual hard proof with a large sample size, it does not prove the existence of "endogenic systems".

You can believe something that isn't true without that belief being caused by a mental illness, but that doesn't mean that belief is correct. The idea that someone who believes something that is scientifically untrue must be delusional or mentally ill in some way is ableist and inaccurate.

Again, this is extremely basic knowledge of how research works. A couple studies where a researcher interviewed "non disordered plurals" and found they were mostly functioning okay does not prove anything, and it certainly doesn't trump decades of scientific research proving that systemhood is purely post-traumatic in nature.

Same thing as when endos say "that source is about DID so it doesn't count!" Dissociative identity disorder is the scientific name for the presence of a system, any creditable research about systemhood will use the term DID. They're not studying the label, they're studying systemhood. Under that logic, research about DID wouldn't apply to OSDD or P-DID either. Making that argument just proves you have no idea how any of this works.

So many other examples are coming to mind but I'll just stick with those two so I don't ramble forever.

Endos just fucking lie all the time

Endos will very often say things that are so blatantly untrue, they're either intentionally lying or just making things up without checking anything.

Examples: when endos claim that non-disordered plurals coined "system" in the 90s when Pierre Janet was writing about dissociative personality systems in fucking 1907, when endos claim that the theory of structural dissociation was made by intentionally abusing children into developing DID, when endos claim that the DSM supports endogenic systems, etc.

Endos promote the fantasy and sociocognitive models of DID which are not scientifically valid and are literally anti-DID propaganda

It's common for endos to cite the fantasy and sociocognitive models of DID when trying to prove their claims. This also ties into scientific illiteracy, because those sources aren't claiming systems can form without trauma, they're claiming systems don't exist at all. These models were created by professionals who were making an organized effort to get DID removed from the DSM, and who also supported demonstrably false ideas designed to silence trauma survivors, such as false memory syndrome. Not only are these sources not scientifically valid, they are part of a disgusting movement against trauma survivors and they should never be treated as actual evidence.

Trying to convince someone they're an "endo system" can be extremely dangerous and the risk should never be taken

There have been so many incidents of endos trying to convince people they were an endo system when they actually just had psychosis, BPD, maladaptive daydreaming or actual DID.

Fixating on disconnecting yourself from the natural parts that make up your self, convincing yourself there are other beings inside your head that can control you, etc can be extremely dangerous and many people have suffered psychotic breaks because of this. Psychotic breaks are even common in non-endo tulpamancy communities. Believing your BPD mood swings or maladaptive daydreams are "headmates" causes further disconnection from yourself which makes those issues harder to treat, and can cause severe dissociative or psychotic episodes. And of course, interacting with your DID symptoms when you are convinced you don't have trauma leads to worsened dissociation, flooding of trauma flashbacks, and suicidal ideation.

If an online endogenic community has to exist, it should be incredibly niche and confined to a part of the internet that you are only likely to reach after you have already been evaluated for psychosis, BPD, MaDD and actual DID and found to have none of them. It is way more likely that the explanation for feeling like multiple people or hearing voices inside your head will be some kind of psychiatric disorder, and convincing yourself you're an endo system when you actually have an untreated disorder could literally get you killed.

Endos knowingly encourage dangerous psychiatric symptoms

In addition to that, there have been many instances in which a person has openly said that their experiences are caused by psychosis and endos have tried to convince them they're just plural, and even gone as far to tell people not to take antipsychotics because "they're just trying to get rid of your alters!" See above for why this is literally unforgiveable behaviour. Encouraging psychosis, especially to such an extreme degree, is incredibly dangerous and again, can literally get people killed.

Promoting misinformation

A lot of harmful misinfo in system communities (i.e. you can split alters without trauma, fusion is alter death, alters are entirely separate people) is prominently spread by endos and their supporters. Not exclusively, but very commonly.

Cultural appropriation

This has been done to death, but the amount of (mainly white) people shoving words in the mouths of people who participate in closed practices (who do not experience anything close to systemhood and it's frankly offensive to even compare those things) is disgusting. Ethnic minorities are not a fucking pawn for you to use in your stupid internet discourse.

Endos routinely erase all of these issues to avoid criticism

In addition to everything I've listed, it's worth noting that many of the 90s "plural" groups that endos cite like gospel were anti-DID hate groups who wanted the disorder removed from the DSM. Endos like to erase that history (because there's really no defending that, especially now that they've changed their tune from "DID isn't medical, we have DID and we aren't disordered!" to "haha whaaaaat, we never claimed to have DID guys!"), in addition to erasing all of the other issues I've talked about. If you're going to stand behind a community with such a horrible history, the least you can do is have to the balls to actually admit your community's problems instead of lying about it. Especially when the proof is easy to find.

The fact that this is something people with DID even have to deal with this in the first place is horrible

There's just...no equivalent to this for other mental illnesses. No-one claims to have "non-disordered schizophrenia" or "non-disordered OCD" or ""non-disordered PTSD". And like it or not, this movement started from, or at the very least was popularized by, people who romanticize DID and want to have it. It's so ridiculous that people who just want to exist with DID online are basically forced to develop and voice an opinion on something so blatantly pseudoscientific. People shouldn't have to go out of their way to use every tag imaginable telling people they don't want supporters of ableist bullshit to hijack their posts just for it to happen anyways. If you spend enough time in online system communities, you might just think of endo bullshit as normal. It's not fucking normal. And it only exists for DID because people love the fantasy of "multiple people in one body".

In conclusion

There are too many issues with endos for me to ever support them as a movement, and I'm tired of dealing with their shit. I don't want to debate and I don't want to get involved in syscourse. If you don't like my stance on this, block me. If you personally identify as some kind of "non-disordered plural", you don't participate in any of the things I've listed and you want to interact with me, go ahead. I have no issues with you even if I disagree with you.

And hopefully I can go on with my blog without having to talk about these things again. Fingers crossed.

Thanks for reading if you actually made it this far. Go have a cookie or something.

[hazedxg0]

This might be controversial, and that's fine with me, but if you are new to discovering your DID/OSDD, please be mindful of how much time you are spending in online DID/OSDD forums and groups. It is very easy for these spaces to become echo chambers, and sociogenic illness does exist.

Talking to other people with DID/OSDD can be helpful for figuring things out, but be careful not to blindly absorb whatever people tell you.

Ultimately, figuring out your condition and the way your system works is between you and a licensed professional, not between you and people in a Discord server.

Some of us learned this lesson the hard way, and I imagine many young systems are still going to be learning it the hard way when they have to untangle real information about their symptoms from what strangers online have told them about their symptoms.

[hazedxg0]

Schizoid culture is feeling like half of a person. You see all these people acctually experiencing life, feeling things, connecting with real things/people on a deeper level, they feel like life and the things in it have meaning. All while you know your brain won't let you experience any of that. You're lacking a fundamental human experience.

[hazedxg0]

you seem to know a fair bit about DID. is it normal for different alters to have different traumatic memories that dont coencide with the trauma that occurred in reality? i feel strange for remembering my "past" because i feel like..."it didnt happen in real life, so it didnt happen at all". however, we have a very in depth inner world, and i can see my body. most alters can visualise themselves within the headspace. i can see the scars and marks and missing pieces on myself from what happened to me, but not out here. not in everyone elses reality. i always feel like a fraud for this.

So this is kind of a complex question given that it ties into decades long debates in the field about traumatic memory and dissociation, as well as some community discourse.

What I believe you're talking about has to do with substitute beliefs, specifically to do with memory. Substitute beliefs are basically always present in DID, given that alters themselves come from a kind of substitute belief (the belief that the trauma didn't happen to you and happened to someone else, i.e. the alter). Obviously I'm not a professional and I don't know what's going on in your head, but when people talk about "pseudo-memories" and such, they're referring to substitute beliefs about traumatic memories.

These memories "aren't real" in the sense that they are not true recollections of things that happened in reality, as you said, but that doesn't mean they are entirely "false memories". What is usually going on in these situations is that these recollections are being used to mask genuine trauma memories, because they reality of what actually happened is too much for the mind to handle. So the mind distorts its recollection of these events to avoid the painful truth, creating an alternate version of the memory that is easier to cope with or understand.

Thus, you will often find that with "pseudo-memories" that while the events themselves are being recalled incorrectly, the underlying emotions and messaging of the memories line up with genuine trauma memories that the person is dissociating away from. The "pseudo-memories" essentially metaphorically represent what the person's actual trauma in reality was. They may represent feelings of betrayal, violation, helplessness, intense physical or psychological pain, etc.

You can see this sort of process with other kinds of substitute beliefs in DID as well. For example with non-human alters, where a person experiences dehumanization trauma so intense that the only way they can rationalize that experience is by believing themself to be an animal. Something that is clearly not true in reality, but is a reflection of what the mind had to convince itself in order to survive that experience.

These kinds of substitute beliefs may distort trauma memories as well, for example abuser introjects may recall trauma memories from the perspective of the perpetrator. That's obviously not how the person would have experienced the initial event, the memory is just being distorted due to dissociation.

There are two reasons why this is kind of controversial. Number one is that the community's idea of "pseudo-memories" borders on if not outright being misinformation. People tend to treat "pseudo-memories" or "source memories" as 100% real things that need to be treated the same way as actual trauma memories, which just reinforces the substitute belief that the actual trauma memory isn't true and that the distorted recollection is. This prevents the person from actually processing their real trauma and instead furthers their dissociation, which is obviously not healthy.

Number two is that this ties into "false memory syndrome". FMS is a debunked idea that entirely false recollections of traumatic events that never happened can be implanted into a person by a clinician or media, and that these "false memories" are vivid enough that they cannot be told apart from genuine memories and can cause faux-PTSD symptoms. This idea has never been supported by research.

The False Memory Foundation have been trying for years not only to have FMS put into the DSM and ICD, but also to have DID and dissociative amnesia removed from these manuals. But they have failed every single time due to a lack of empirical evidence, and due to there being too much evidence that proves the existence of dissociative disorders. General studies into memory have also confirmed that "false memories" have more to do with distorted memory than memories that are genuinely completely baseless.

To top it all of, the people who started this organization had no qualifications in psychology, and only created this idea after their daughter accused them of CSA (so a very clear conflict of interest there). The idea of FMS has been used to try and discredit survivors and protect abusers, as well as deny survivors access to the care they need for their traumatic experiences.

You can probably see the connections between the community's idea of "pseudo-memories" and FMS, and also why this tends to be such a heated subject given the absolutely horrific history behind such an idea.

But the point stands that what happens with "pseudo-memories" is that they are genuine trauma memories that are partially misremembered due to substitute beliefs that stem from trauma-based dissociation. They are not "false memories", they are true memories that have been distorted. The treatment for such memories involves processing the actual trauma behind the distorted recollection, not deciding that the whole thing must be a lie and ignoring it like proponents of FMS would argue.

Experiencing these things doesn't make you "a fraud" or anything like that. This is just one of the many ways that the mind tries to protect from severe trauma that it cannot cope with. While these experiences may not be "real" in the sense that the recollection is not accurate, they are very real in the sense that they are based in legitimate trauma memories that need to be healed from and processed.

Hope this clarified some things. Wishing you luck with your recovery

[hazedxg0]

@mosaic-system

Here's the main three I normally recommend to people:

“I Am Not I”: The Neuroscience of Dissociative Identity Disorder

Abnormal hippocampal morphology in dissociative identity disorder and post‐traumatic stress disorder correlates with childhood trauma and dissociative symptoms

Aiding the diagnosis of dissociative identity disorder: pattern recognition study of brain biomarkers (this one isn't public access so you can't see the full thing without either buying it or using university/college credentials, but you can still see the methods and results on the abstract).

I feel like I'm progressively losing my mind logging on to Tumblr and seeing people say things like "wow, I wish we knew how splitting and switching worked, too bad DID is so under researched :("

My friend. Respectfully. We know both of those things.

We know way more about DID than the internet would lead you to believe. We know how DID forms initially, how alters split afterwards, what happens on a psychological and neurobiological level when switching, we know what kinds of trauma will cause DID and what kind of trauma cause specific alter types, we know what leads to specific presentations of DID, we know how DID presents across the lifespan, so on and so forth.

Basically all of this stuff is covered in the theory of structural dissociation. You know, that scientific theory everyone loves to name drop but no-one actually reads? You should read it. Find a PDF of The Haunted Self or Coping With Trauma-Related Dissociation. You will find basically everything you want to know.

DID was first added to the DSM-III in 1980 (although under a different name). But we've been studying dissociative personality systems since the early 1900s, and even that was based on earlier work in related areas. The theory of structural dissociation is essentially a compilation of all the research on trauma and dissociation from the past century, and it has been continuously expanded upon and validated by modern day research involving things like neuroimaging techniques. The references section of The Haunted Self alone is 48 pages long.

There is so much research out there. There is so much information publicly shared by credible professionals that can educate you on this disorder. Don't just assume we don't know the answers to your questions if you haven't even checked if the answers are out there.

Of course we don't know everything. But DID is certainly not this completely mystical disorder that no-one understands.

[hazedxg0]

While I do understand what people are trying to say, I hate when people make posts about how "DID isn't just alter disorder, there are other symptoms that are actually disabling!"

Because, at least in my experience, alters themselves are 100% a debilitating symptom.

It's disabling only being able to remember about 10% of your life due to constant switching. It's disabling having trauma memories and emotions bleed through from other alters in co-consciousness. It's disabling having persecutors that re-enact trauma and attempt to take your life. It's disabling having alters that do not understand the trauma has ended.

It's disabling hearing constant chatter in your head at all times. It's disabling hearing screaming or crying in your head when you're trying to complete everyday tasks. It's disabled having alters switch into to situations that require skills they do not remember how to do. It's disabling having alters that constantly argue because of differing opinions on your relationships and life path. It's disabling having abuser introjects, non-human alters and child parts.

I could go on. But the dysfunction in DID doesn't come exclusively (or even mainly) from the symptoms other than alters.

But in addition to that, those other "actually disabling" symptoms are the reason that alters exist in the first place. DID is on the tertiary level of structural dissociation, and structural dissociation is cumulative. Alters can only form when there is high amounts of other dissociative symptoms typically associated with less complex disorders, like depersonalization/derealization, dissociative amnesia and PTSD symptoms.

It's not like alters are just a random by-product that happens to develop alongside the dissociative and post-traumatic symptoms. The alters only exist because of the those symptoms and they are debilitating in and of themselves, because they are the result of extreme dissociation and PTSD.

There's nothing fun or easy about having a complex trauma disorder.

[hazedxg0]

I feel like I'm progressively losing my mind logging on to Tumblr and seeing people say things like "wow, I wish we knew how splitting and switching worked, too bad DID is so under researched :("

My friend. Respectfully. We know both of those things.

We know way more about DID than the internet would lead you to believe. We know how DID forms initially, how alters split afterwards, what happens on a psychological and neurobiological level when switching, we know what kinds of trauma will cause DID and what kind of trauma cause specific alter types, we know what leads to specific presentations of DID, we know how DID presents across the lifespan, so on and so forth.

Basically all of this stuff is covered in the theory of structural dissociation. You know, that scientific theory everyone loves to name drop but no-one actually reads? You should read it. Find a PDF of The Haunted Self or Coping With Trauma-Related Dissociation. You will find basically everything you want to know.

DID was first added to the DSM-III in 1980 (although under a different name). But we've been studying dissociative personality systems since the early 1900s, and even that was based on earlier work in related areas. The theory of structural dissociation is essentially a compilation of all the research on trauma and dissociation from the past century, and it has been continuously expanded upon and validated by modern day research involving things like neuroimaging techniques. The references section of The Haunted Self alone is 48 pages long.

There is so much research out there. There is so much information publicly shared by credible professionals that can educate you on this disorder. Don't just assume we don't know the answers to your questions if you haven't even checked if the answers are out there.

Of course we don't know everything. But DID is certainly not this completely mystical disorder that no-one understands.

[hazedxg0]

I don't know how to phrase this in a different way so before you come at me I'm gunna need y'all to read the post.

If fake claiming will be detrimentally damaging to your mental health, you shouldn't post about your disorder.

STICK WITH ME STICK WITH ME I'M NOT BLAMING PEOPLE FOR BEING FAKECLAIMED

Genuinely as advice, don't post publicly about information that could be used against you in a way that will damage you. It's similar to why you shouldn't post about your insecurities or triggers. People will use it against you. This includes things like disorders. If you make it known that fake claiming causes you distress, there's going to be someone out there who just does it for fun.

It's okay to be bothered by fake claiming. I'm not blaming you for being fake claimed if you have been on social media before. Something more people need to understand is that the internet will never be a safe space, and that's not your fault but it's important to remember that when you're posting information that could be used to hurt you.

If someone saying you're lying about your disorder will cause you to spiral into denial, then keep that as a close friends only subject. If it just mildly upsets you then don't post about the fact it upsets you. If it doesn't bother you at all then awesome.

Put your safety and wellbeing before the internet. Stay safe y'all.

[hazedxg0]

why is the best DID representation in media always accidental. the moment they try to do it on purpose its just the evil alter trope again but the moment theyre not trying its like wow. how did you manage to get that accurate accidentally?

[hazedxg0]

how’s that house that raised you?

[hazedxg0]

Not everything that makes you uncomfortable is actually causing you harm

[hazedxg0]

Sorry for being a hater but can we please stop saying we "came out" as systems? How about you just told someone you're a system? Using the terminology of "coming out" doesn't help our case of not wanting people to think of systems as an identity or something similar to being trans or queer.

- ❔ (it/he)

[hazedxg0]

I want yall to know smth. Your partner shouldn’t HAVE to stay with you just because you’re mentally ill.

A lot of yall throw around the word “ableist” just because your partner doesn’t want to stay with you, but then go around talking abt how you treat them like shit. Of fucking course they don’t want to stay with you.

Your disorder isn’t an excuse to treat your partner like garbage. That’s on you to make sure you don’t hurt them.

They have the right to find someone that treats them better.

[hazedxg0]

“Oh boy, oh boy! I sure can’t wait to watch this video from my favourite commentary channel!”

I then preceded to watch in horror as she repeatedly used narcissist as an insult.

[hazedxg0]

They hate me for my redundancies. And also for my tendency to say the same thing but in slightly different ways. And for my repetition of phrases. And for my redundancies.

[hazedxg0]

In bed. Straight up losing it. And by "it," well. Haha. Let's just say. My memories

[hazedxg0]

I never really see anyone talking about how difficult it can be building system communication and co-operation when you have low or no empathy, which is odd considering how highly comorbid DID and personality disorders are.

Often times your therapist will tell you that you need to learn to appreciate what your parts do for you. That you need to be empathetic towards the trauma they have experienced and the suffering they're going through. That you need to learn to let yourself feel their emotions instead of dissociating away from them.

But I cannot do that kind of thing in general. Not for people externally, not for myself as the part I am, and not for the other parts in my system. I can't feel other people's feelings and I can't care about other people's experiences on a deep emotional level. It's not just a matter of me dissociating from the experiences of my parts, it's a matter of me not having empathy.

I suppose building relationships with alters will be hard if you struggle with interpersonal skills in general, but I rarely see this kind of thing discussed, surprisingly.