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don't mind me I'm just listening to my byler playlist and crying

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Finn saying the monologue was Mike “professing his love” is still my fav byler proof to date

For anyone confused professing means to claim that one has a quality or feeling, especially when this is NOT the case

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There’s not enough destiel edits to angel baby by troye sivan and personally I consider that a hate crime

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power bottom phil lester confirmation is up there with hailey bieber saying her and justin's favorite position is doggy style... shit I wish I could unknow

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what if my friend who just started watching spn doesn't end up seeing/shipping destiel... I cannot do that like I'm actually scared... is our friendship strong enough to survive that?

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my delulu byler brain is telling me the scene of mike and el in the teaser is el comforting mike that she is going to save will

she’s clearly getting into that thing behind her (tank, bath, why does it have a door? It’s filled with water though because we see a hose) to use her powers

Anyways byler nation how are we feeling?

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I love reading and listening to byler analyses but whenever someone says "there's no other explantion that would make sense" I always think babes I agree with you but have we considered the writers are stupid...

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If byler doesn't go canon I'd consider it to be destiel level queerbait which I cannot go through that shit twice

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I love seeing shippers on here go "byler doubt, I don't know her" like damn that sounds so nice, that's not me though... I've been through the queerbaiting hell of spn, marvel, x-men, voltron, bnha, etc you name it. I have no faith in any writers, nvm two straight men

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The reason I can't take people seriously when they tell me I'm being delusional and something isn't gay, is because well—it’s too gay for my homophobic family...

Destiel ain't gay? Too gay to watch in front of my family... Byler ain’t going canon? My homophobic family clocked them... Chinese censored bls aren’t gay, they’re bromance? But yet again, I cannot watch that around my family because “oh god they’re gay, aren't they”

So, personally I judge if a show is gay enough by how offended my homophobic family is.

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Things I need Mike Wheeler to apologise for:

Going to list all the ways in which Mike has hurt Will. I'd personally love to see mike wheeler crying, begging for forgiveness, apologising on knees for some of these, but on a more serious note, I'd just like for some of these things to get adressed in season 5.

"It's not my fault you don't like girls" I personally still want to slap him for this one...

I'd love to see the rain fight get brought up again, since I don't think Mike knows that Will destroyed castle byers, opposed to the storm that day. I'd love to see Mike find out about that and the picture ripping...

2. joining another d&d party

Does Will know about this? Did Dustin tell him? It wasn't brought up at all in season 4. I would've loved Will's reaction to the fact they went back to playing d&d after he left.

3. didn't write to and barely called Will after he moved to california (the line was busy ok but he wrote to el)

I need phonegate/lettergate to be real and have it adressed in season 5 because why wouldn't mike call? They already talked about it in season 4 but I'd just like to see it be further elaborated on.

4. dodging Will's hug at the airport, proceeded to be weird and awkward towards him (again if I could reach through my screen here, oh Mike you would've been cooked)

I'd love to see Mike explain why he acted the way he did towards Will and apologise in season 5, something along the lines of "I couldn't even hug you at the airport when I saw you again because of...). And most importantly I need them to hug in season 5, I need MIKE to hug Will specifically.

5. forgot Will's birthday (but you know everyone did)

birthdaygate has to be adressed in s5, i refuse to believe the duffers forgot Will's birthday

6. didn't notice Will sobbing next to him in the van after the painting speech

Excuse my language here but HOW THE FUCK did he not notice that? I'd love a word with Duffers here. But I'd love to see Jonathan bring it up... something along the lines of Mike needs to stop making his little brother cry.

7. "my life started the day I met you (el) in the woods" (and lastly the worst crime of them all I was ready to kill him)

His life started when Will went missing? RUDE! I NEEED this adressed in season 5, it's imperative to me being able to enjoy the series and i'm not even kidding. Noah let the scene you had to fight for be a scene where Mike and Will talk about this🙏 No matter what happens in s5, if this is not adressed in some way, shape or form I'll be unhappy.

And if any byler shippers on here have fanfiction recommendations based on any of these scenarios please send them my way.

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The two byler parallels that cured my byler doubt:

First of all, the fact nancy couldn't say ily to steve because she really liked jonathan, mirrored by mike not being able to say ily to el. Especially since Nancy could tell other people she loved steve but she couldn't say it to his face when asked, sound familiar?

Secondly, one of my personal favourites that made me lose my mind when I rewatched, namely this jancy scene "what happened?" "what do you mean?" "to us?"(s2 hotel scene) paralleling the byler "what about us?" "what?" rinkomania scene in s4. It shows how romantically tinted that rinkomania fight really is, plus the fact that jancy scene also turned into a fight... couples fighting about not being together, yet.

No, but really, comparing the scenes even deeper and how the jancy scene feels similiar, to me.

nancy: "what happened?"

jonathan: "what do you mean?"

nancy: "to us? After everything you just disappeared.

jonathan: "Will needed me, (you had) Steve"

nancy: "I waited"

jonathan: "like only a month"

This conflict jancy had in s2 feels so very very similar to the byler conflict in s4. Both Will and Mike feel like the other just disappeared from their lives after everything, because of Will moving and them not staying in contact. Mike even says it directly "maybe I feel like I lost you or something. Does that make sense?"

Now, onto the next part, Jonathan talking about how Will needed him at the time and pointing out Nancy had steve. This leads me to the full version of my previous referenced quote "It's Hawkins. It's not the same without you. And I feel like maybe I was worrying too much about El, and I don't know,"maybe I feel like I lost you or something. Does that make sense?".

So, both Will and Mike's perspectives here relate to Jonathan, because on one side Jonathan pulled back from Nancy because of worrying about Will, similarly to Mike worrying about El. While Will pulled back because Mike had El, comparably to Jonathan pulling back from Nancy because of Steve.

We know Will pulled back from Mike because of El through the rinkomania fight. So, exploring that a bit further, taking into consideration the last part of that jancy scene.

Will: “Well, what about us?”

Mike: “What?”

Will: “You're mad that I didn't talk to you? You made it super clear that you're not interested in anything I have to say.”

Mike: “That's just not true.”

Will: “You've called maybe a couple times. It's been a year, Mike. Meanwhile, El has a book of letters from you.”

Aka Will didn't call (pulled back) because Mike send El letters but didn't send him any.

Mike: “That's because she's my girlfriend, Will.”

Will: “And us?”

Mike: “We're friends. We're friends.”

Will: “We used to be best friends.”

Mike: “Then maybe you should've reached out more. I don't know. But why is this on me? Why... Why am I the bad guy?”

Going back here to the jancy scene, where nancy says she waited and jonathan said 'like only for a month', it's jonathan's version of saying 'why is this on me? why am I the bad guy', when you moved on?'

Nancy in this scene is asking Jonathan why he didn't reach out to her, similarly to how Will was doing in the rinkomania fight. The scene ends with jonathan turning it around on her, wondering how he is to blame when nancy moved on that 'quickly', meanwhile in the byler fight Mike also turns it around on Will, not understanding how he's 'the bad guy' when Will could've reached out more too.

Now, taking phonegate into consideration when analysing this scene. If Mike has been calling Will to no avail, see Dustin:"I told you, Joyce has this new telemarketer job. She's always on the phone, Mike won't stop whining about it." it adds another layer to why Mike feels this is unfair, as he felt equally abandoned as Will did.

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Whenever someone tells me that byler won’t happen because Mike isn’t gay, since he’s in a relationship with Eleven, it makes me think about when I told my grandma about a kpop concert I went to and when I showed her videos she immediately went “he’s gay” and I told her “grandma, he (the kpop idol) is married (to a woman) with two kids” and you know what my grandma said? “Wouldn’t be the first”

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Thinking about the show through this specific pov has been very interesting. I’d never considered this before. Taking the rain fight as an example, I’ve always viewed it as either homophobic or internalised homophobia but never as both.

“It’s not my fault you don’t like girls”

I’ve always thought of it as mike projecting but considering this pov it’d be more of a “It’s not my fault you (and I) don’t like girls” aka “I’m just trying to be, act normal here, why are you making it so difficult, we both have to do this, we both have to “grow out of this” and be normal”

Followed by will’s refusal, telling mike that, no, I never wanted to be normal, I thought things would stay like this forever, and the absolute look of devastation on Mike’s face there upon hearing that. Upon hearing “yeah, I guess I did, I really did”. Will telling him he thought things would stay the same and they wouldn’t have to change in response to Mike telling him they’d eventually have to get girlfriends and become normal, conform anyways.

“I mean, what did you think, really? That we were never gonna get girlfriends? We were just gonna sit in my basement all day and play games for the rest of our lives?”

Which is especially interesting to me looking at the start of season 4 where Mike has returned to playing dnd and proclaims “Has it ever occurred to you that we don't want to be popular” to lucas. He’s no longer trying to be normal, until he touches foot in lenora.

My previous theory here is that Mike obviously feels this need to perform around El and I also really like the theory of him being jealous of Will potentially having a crush on a girl (el’s letter) and that’s why he behaves the way he does.

However analysing this scene through my previously established pov, it would imply mike feeling this need to perform and trying to act “normal”, extra straight around Will, rejecting Will’s hug to set boundaries for how they can behave, thinking Will is trying to be “normal”, straight too (the presumed crush on a girl).

Taking into consideration here how Mike said he felt like he lost Will, and some interpretations. He felt like lot Will as a friend, a bestfriend, since they didn’t talk, will didn’t contact him. Now viewing it from the earlier pov, he feels like he lost Will, who has moved on from him, who is now ready to conform (likes a girl), who is no longer giving Mike any hope: “I guess I did” and saying he wouldn’t join another party. And that’s what Mike thought he wanted (for him and Will to move on), except he absolutely doesn’t want that, at all.

Queue the rinkomania fight “what about us” “we’re friends, we’re friends”

So, we’re going off of the premise that Mike didn’t write Will letters or atleast didn’t send them because he views it as something romantic, which is why he writes El a bunch of letters, however not doing a fantastic job conforming with the ‘from mike’ fiasco.

Therefore, Mike gets defensive about Will asking why he didn’t write him because “we’re friends, that’s all we can be, I thought we were on the same page” but then Will hits him with “we used to be bestfriends” and Mike realises that in trying to force himself (and Will) to act “normal” HE is actually ruining their friendship and he might lose Will completely. And that’s absolutely not what Mike wants. He wants to keep Will in his life, he wants both of them to live happy, safe, “normal” lives.

So, after this, Mike reels in his internalised homophobia. Deciding that his own self-pitying is to blame and that in his pursuit to make their relationship as normal as possible, he was actually pushing Will too far away, to the point where he already lost his bestfriend. As will said “we used to be bestfriends” and Mike talks about how he feels like he lost Will. It’s a wake up call for Mike.

Mike realises his mistake and decides he has taken the trying to act normal act too far. He wants and needs Will in his life and he deep down doesn’t actually want Will to move on from him, considering his jealousy about the painting. So, Mike starts acting more like himself again around Will, and it’s a lot more comfortable than the fake persona he was putting on before.

Then we arrive at the van scene and the painting was actually for Mike, all his jealousy was for nothing and Mike looks overjoyed. Maybe Will isn’t trying to move on, maybe Will still feels the same as he did during the rain fight. There is hope. (And that’s scary and maybe he’d try to self sabotage later down the line but he’s still happy in this moment)

However then Will hits him with the lie of El commissioning the painting and Mike’s face falls. Assuming Mike knows about Will’s feelings and immediately clocks that he is lying here, it’s like oh yeah fuck we’re still doing this… Will is also still trying to act “normal”, he wants me to be with El. But also taking in all the other parts of the speech, Mike making Will feel like he isn’t a mistake, for example, making Mike doubt his choices. Because for as much as he tries to surpress it, and is scared. He really wants to be with Will, he thinks he can’t, he believes he shouldn’t, but god does he want that too.

Now, looking at the scene of when they find El, Mike looking back and forward between El and Will with a troubled, confused, tormented look on his face before he brings El over to Will for their reunion. Again from the pov I’m exploring here, it could be viewed as Mike realising he has to start “performing” again and he is conflicted as he doesn’t want to. However, he does as we then see in the pizza bar, he tries to go back to how he was acting until he sees Will looking sad (after his talk with jonathan).

Moving on to the confession scene, where as many have pointed out (joked), will had to rub his back and call him petnames to get mike to confess his love to his gf, we see Mike is struggling to say what he thinks he needs to say. Maybe, especially, after the van scene, after will’s disguised confession, and after will looking sad upon seeing him and El together. Mike looks back at Will in that scene, looking quite lost, looking like ‘is this really what you want will? You really want to push me to El?” and in that moment Will gives him the push he needs to do what he believes he has to do, both for El and for Will.

Where would that leave us for s5? Mike’s resolve crumbling as he decides he’s can’t do it anymore,he can’t keep pretending. He’s going to crack. “Will, when are we going to stop lying to eachother and ourselves”

Now, real talk. I’m not saying I believe this theory. It’s just another angle, another perspective, another possibility to consider that I wanted to explore for a bit. There are other theories that I personally subscribe to more, find more believable, I do still think Mike isn’t aware of Will’s feelings but I just found this pov compelling to think about, maybe it could be further explored in a fanfiction down the line.

I saw this post a while ago, where someone pointed out to me, that mike interprets every fight he has with will romantically.

So, I was thinking about this, and yes! He always pushes back harshly “We’re friends. We’re friends!” “It’s not my fault you don’t like girls!” which to me, either means that he knows Will is in love with him, which his reaction would then just be cruel OR there's some feelings there from his side too, and because of his internalised homophobia he deals with it in this way.

Viewing it from the perspective of a closeted gay/bi guy, he feels the need to enforce and emphasize a heteronormative perspective on his relationship with will, while actually he is the one viewing it from a homosexual lens. He feels this need to point out not only his own "straightness" but also Will's presumed straightness. He views and experiences every fight he has with Will romantically, similar to a fight you'd have with a significant other.

This is why the rinkomania fight remains the best byler proof to date because “We’re friends. We’re friends!” didn't make any sense! Because yes mike, obviously... Will was talking about y'alls relationship as friends... This could mean Mike is aware of his feelings for Will but is actively surpressing them. Which can be interpreted in one of two ways to me personally, namely Mike thinks Will is straight and his feelings are unrequited, or maybe Mike is scared of Will reciprocating?

I feel like that's an overlooked perspective, especially considering the time in which the story takes place, the 80s, during the aids crisis. Most bylers tend to assume that Mike isn't aware of Will's feelings, but what if he is? What if he has known this whole time, or maybe since some time before the rain fight? Or atleast prior to season 4?

In this case scenario, what if Mike is scared of his own and Will's feelings. Not only having the fear of whether Will would reciprocate, but also what if Will reciprocates. Maybe, both could be equally scary... Doubts about what if Will is actually straight and he misread the situation, but also being scared that maybe he is gay and they do indeed both like eachother, and where does that leave them...

Mike having grown up in a homophobic small town, growning up hearing and reading about gay people dying, in the tens of thousands, to aids which was often referred to as the "gay plague", the government doing very little to adress the situation, no gay marriage, obviously. The idea that he wouldn't want neither himself, nor Will to be gay doesn't seem far-fetched to me.

So, yeah… the idea that his internalised homophobia (which stems from fear) extends to not only himself, but also the person he's in love with (aka 'he isn't gay because I don't want him to be gay because if he is then I have to face my own feelings) is a perspective I haven't seen many other byler shippers talk about.

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@noneedtoargue1994 you know I already knew this but well don’t mind me while I cry myself to sleep thinking of this tonight 💔

I saw this post a while ago, where someone pointed out to me, that mike interprets every fight he has with will romantically.

So, I was thinking about this, and yes! He always pushes back harshly “We’re friends. We’re friends!” “It’s not my fault you don’t like girls!” which to me, either means he knows Will is in love with him, which this reaction would then just be cruel OR there's some feelings there from his side too and because of his internalised homophobia he deals with it in this way.

Viewing it from the perspective of a closeted gay/bi guy, he feels the need to emphasise a heteronormative perspective on his relationship with will, while actually he is the one viewing it from a homosexual lens. He feels this need to point out not only his own "straightness" but also Will's presumed straightness. He views and experiences every fight he has with Will romantically, similar to a fight you'd have with a significant other.

This is why the rinkomania fight remains the best byler proof to date because “We’re friends. We’re friends!” didn't make any sense! Because, yes mike, obviously... Will was talking about y'alls relationship as friends... This could mean Mike is aware of his feelings for Will but is actively surpressing them. Which can be interpreted in one of two ways to me personally, namely Mike thinks Will is straight and his feelings are unrequited or maybe Mike is scared of Will reciprocating?

I feel like that's an overlooked perspective. Especially considering the time in which the story takes place, the 80s, during the aids crisis. Most bylers tend to assume Mike isn't aware of Will's feelings but what if he is? What if he has known this whole time, or maybe since some time before the rain fight? Or atleast prior to season 4?

In this case scenario, what if Mike is scared of is own and Will's feelings. Not only having the fear of whether Will would reciprocate but also what if will reciprocates. Maybe both could be equally scary... Doubts about what if Will is actually straight and he misread the situation but also maybe he is gay and they do indeed both like eachother and where does that leave them.

Mike having grown up in a homophobic small town, growning up hearing and reading about gay people dying in the tens of thousands to aids which was often referred to as the "gay plague", the government doing very little to adress the situation, no gay marriage obviously. The idea he wouldn't want neither himself nor Will to be gay, doesn't seem far-fetched to me.

So yeah the idea that his internalised homophobia (which stems from fear) extends to not only himself but also the person he's in love with (aka 'he isn't gay, because I don't want him to gay, because then I have to face my own feelings) is a perspective I haven't seen many other byler shippers talk about.

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I saw this post a while ago, where someone pointed out to me, that mike interprets every fight he has with will romantically.

So, I was thinking about this, and yes! He always pushes back harshly “We’re friends. We’re friends!” “It’s not my fault you don’t like girls!” which to me, either means that he knows Will is in love with him, which his reaction would then just be cruel OR there's some feelings there from his side too, and because of his internalised homophobia he deals with it in this way.

Viewing it from the perspective of a closeted gay/bi guy, he feels the need to enforce and emphasize a heteronormative perspective on his relationship with will, while actually he is the one viewing it from a homosexual lens. He feels this need to point out not only his own "straightness" but also Will's presumed straightness. He views and experiences every fight he has with Will romantically, similar to a fight you'd have with a significant other.

This is why the rinkomania fight remains the best byler proof to date because “We’re friends. We’re friends!” didn't make any sense! Because yes mike, obviously... Will was talking about y'alls relationship as friends... This could mean Mike is aware of his feelings for Will but is actively surpressing them. Which can be interpreted in one of two ways to me personally, namely Mike thinks Will is straight and his feelings are unrequited, or maybe Mike is scared of Will reciprocating?

I feel like that's an overlooked perspective, especially considering the time in which the story takes place, the 80s, during the aids crisis. Most bylers tend to assume that Mike isn't aware of Will's feelings, but what if he is? What if he has known this whole time, or maybe since some time before the rain fight? Or atleast prior to season 4?

In this case scenario, what if Mike is scared of his own and Will's feelings. Not only having the fear of whether Will would reciprocate, but also what if Will reciprocates. Maybe, both could be equally scary... Doubts about what if Will is actually straight and he misread the situation, but also being scared that maybe he is gay and they do indeed both like eachother, and where does that leave them...

Mike having grown up in a homophobic small town, growning up hearing and reading about gay people dying, in the tens of thousands, to aids which was often referred to as the "gay plague", the government doing very little to adress the situation, no gay marriage, obviously. The idea that he wouldn't want neither himself, nor Will to be gay doesn't seem far-fetched to me.

So, yeah… the idea that his internalised homophobia (which stems from fear) extends to not only himself, but also the person he's in love with (aka 'he isn't gay because I don't want him to be gay because if he is then I have to face my own feelings) is a perspective I haven't seen many other byler shippers talk about.

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@hawkinsschoolcounselor

doing it like this since I can't post a picture in the replies but yeah... she posted this on her instagram story a while back.

So, like I said it's not definite confirmation that her age will be retconned, maybe nell just doesn't know the age of her character, maybe they'll just never adress it in canon, maybe it's the age of her character at the end of the season... like you mentioned she should be 9 in 1989, maybe the epilogue doesn't end with the 1989 graduation but instead goes a bit further, maybe up to new year's eve aka 1990 which would be fitting with the final airing on new year's eve. Who knows ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ but them retconning her age is also a real possibility as of rn

ok, so, the main two things giving me byler doubt right now are the duffers retconning holly's age and the hopper mike picture leak...

So, bylers of tumblr how do we feel about this?

The holly thing gives me doubt, because it makes me doubt the duffers their skills as a whole. I'm a birthdaygate truther, I want to believe they are intentional with their writing and aren't just forgetting about things and retconning.

As for the hopper, mike picture it looks like mike is grieving there and there are multitude of possible explanations for this, for sure. For example, I know many people theorize ted and/or karen wheeler dying and these are certainly good explanations. I'm just scared of the other, obvious explanation, which is El dying. In that scenario, where the show kills El off, I do not see when byler would go canon...

So, thoughts?