#Haymitch is just there for the vibes

[arthdoesart]

drawing my top three faves at 4 am

[solar-halos]

haymitch in the trilogy: i call you sweetheart because fuck you. and fuck your bum ass boyfriend too

haymitch in sotr: i know love is real bc i exist and i am full of it 🩷🩷

[incomingalbatross]

listen

Maysilee Donner victor AU

[sanjarka]

wish i were smart enough to write a time travel sotr x dark au where haymitch tries to save lenore dove only to realize that is has to happen for everything else to fall into place.

[iamasaddie]

can’t wait to read ‘sunrise of the reaping’

(i haven’t read a single hunger games book)

[dreamsy990]

murderbot fandom is gonna hate to hear it but im so sorry. i dont like the gurathin approach from the trailer

[spideyhexx]

i’ve also seen some people say walker scobell for a young haymitch and i can’t tell if i fuck with that or not

maybe it’s cause i still see him as so young in my head

yeah he is young so it would probably be more age accurate, but nah i don’t like that casting, I get it on looks and age but I don’t think Walker has the right energy for that like at all fbdbfb

[railmerosalie]

I find it so funny when ppl say that Katniss has no personality, she's so cute and funny! Like do you not remember when she...

1. Thought Finnick was making out with Peetas corpse and was like "damn didn't know he was fruity like that"

2. When Gale confessed his love for her and she was STRIAGHT up like "yeah I know" 💀

3. Saw Peeta had been crying after the first reaping and immediately thinks "damn he's good, playing the weak sympathy card". Like girl he thinks he's gonna die! He's gonna die!

4. Katniss and Finnick wearing the green face cream in CF and scaring the fuck outta Peeta on the beach

5. Just her and Haymitch, especially the first book

6. "I decided to go ahead and like Boggs" - thanks for letting us know queen 👑

7. In MJ when they're trying to film the propos, and she's just horrible at it

8. In the first book when she's trying to drain the pus out of Peetas leg and she just so goddmaned grossed out

9. Saw the cupcakes at the Capitol party and immediately thought that Peeta would love the frosting details

10. In MJ when Gale and Peeta are talking about Katniss choosing one of them, she's just like "gonna leave you two bums here, don't need this shit"

11. Everytime she was unaware of people flirting with her or just being nice. She always think there's some hidden motive... like girl they're your family and friends, they just like you as a person

12. "Nobody needs me" "I do, I need you". Katniss finally admitting her love for Peeta and realises that she can't live without him!! It's such an important part of her growth towards Peeta and no one talks about it!! The girl how has survived everything finally needs not just something, but SOMEONE. And it's HIM (I'm so normal about this I swear)

13. Sassying buttercup at every turn

14. She has the same vibe as goop from Meet The Robinsons (especially with Madge). "Hey Katniss, wanna eat lunch together?" "Hey Katniss, wanna go for a walk into town later"

She's there like:

[hotcheetohatredwastaken]

Hello everyone! A group of friends and I got into a discussion that spanned multiple weeks about the true definition of a "babygirl" in media. It started as a discussion of "babygirls" in Linked Universe fanfiction but soon expanded to mainstream media, and as such most examples are from this mainstream media for a wider audience (aside from War Crimes Warriors from Call Them Brothers by @wutheringmights, whose fabulous work sparked this debate). Please note that the definition is still under construction, and that all examples may not fit within it 100%, but I believe still generally match the vibes of babygirl. Now, without further ado:

Babygirl Definition

Committing/has committed war crimes (*)

Has Emotions TM about the war crimes, often doubles down

Usually male?

Is, at some point in his life, a sad wet cat (**)

Has experienced the Horrors (***)

Make the Horrors everybody else's problem

Attractive (????)

To fans: endearing but also frustrating, misunderstood

To non-fans: hateable

(Used to) have an ego/pride/"reputation" (which may lead to the aforementioned war crimes)

Has a vulnerability they're stupid about, are aware they're being stupid about it, and yet continue to be stupid about it (passion project, child, etc).

Babygirl examples: War Crime Warriors from Call Them Brothers, Jayce Arcane, Hohenheim FMAB, Zuko ATLA, Boromir LOTR, Elphaba Wicked, Anakin Star Wars, Odysseus, Bill Nye, Stanley and Stanford Pines Gravity Falls, Jamie Lannister, Obama, Howl Moving Castle, Katniss and Haymitch The Hunger Games, The 9th Doctor, Dean Winchester, Bucky Barnes.

(*) War crimes do not refer specifically to acts that violate the Geneva Conventions, but rather to any general act that would be considered inexcusable or otherwise extremely unsavory by the in-universe population. Ex: Jayce accidentally killing a Zaunite child.

(**) For definition of sad wet cat, just imagine a sopping wet cat caught in a sudden, unexpected rainstorm and you're there. A full definition list, like the one above, has not been made: but this term, generally defined, is a period of time in which one feels self-loathing, disgust, hatred, and powerlessness towards oneself, others, and/or the current situation at hand. Often at least partially self created. Ex: Zuko's banishment arc

(***) A traumatic experience (sometimes more than one) that changes them irrevocably. It propels the character forwards into the plot in a way that they do not anticipate, enjoy, and/or completely understand, but have no choice but to adapt to anyways. Ex: Katniss' reaping Thank you to @bittirsweeteer @not-freyja @life-in-winter @elle-rosewater @hytiaa @cinis0 @anime-obsessed @whatvioletdoes-blog @lunaopus @glowingmin @gia-d and @undertheopensky for contributing to the discussion, that was a fun few conversation (if I've forgotten anyone, please let me know). This is mostly being posted for my own amusement, but I hope that anyone else who stumbles across this post finds it mildly amusing! You're welcome to reblog with your own babygirls, lol

[unnamednarrator]

i find people’s sotr criticism about the implicit submission being too explicitly explained very valid. however, i hate to tell you that it is completely congruous with plutarch’s character. he literally explains war theory and roman history to katniss in mockingjay (more than once, when they’re on hovercrafts mostly) but she mostly just ignores him bc she’s an autistic queen. also plutarch grew up in a highly intellectual family (which is unusual in the capitol and can be seen in his family’s extensive library in sotr) and if you don’t have academic people in your life, just know they will monologue to you about niche academia that you do not care about at length with no ability to register your disinterest. plutarch very much gives me that vibe

now i will accept the criticism that it does not seem like something haymitch (or even lenore dove) would say in such textbook terms BUT something you’ve gotta understand about philosophy (as someone who minored in philosophy at uni) is if you hear a philosophical principle, you repeat it verbatim to death until you’ve lived with it and find your own language with which to furnish that principle. plutarch just gave haymitch textbook language and he repeated that bc that’s a normal way to react to that information. lenore dove i’m not so sure about but i think the answer lies in her main adult role models being clerk carmine and tam amber, although i haven’t interrogated that enough

i’ve been seeing a lot of sotr criticism going around and a lot of it is valid but this bothered me bc i have many lived experiences of intellectual/academic family members whose behaviour i really recognised in the book so this is my take!

[girlrandomstuff]

What if I say that Haymitch's "I'm content where she's content, like geese, we mated for life" gives me the same vibes that Lucy Gray's "you're mine, I'm yours, it's written in the stars" and Katniss' "Gale is mine, I am his, everything else is unthinkable".

"You just hate romanticism" no, actually, in fantasy I really like this "fated mates" "soulmates" "destined to be" couples "only loving a person for life" stuff, BUT, this ones feels a bit not only cringy but also feels off, wrong and then we, the audience, the readers know for a fact, these statements are/become FALSE.

So, in this little assay I try to explain what's wrong, or at least- what my problem is with this quotes.

“Gale is mine, I am his. Everything else is unthinkable”

Like I have say it before, there's a whole video on this topic from content creator Rachel A Ramras, in her video she explains how Katniss' statement comes from a place of guilt because she feels like doing all this is betraying Gale and their relationship and what they had lived together is what she should stick with, because he was her first love, or at least the first person outside her family to built a deep conection with, a person who she met during one of the most vulnerable moments in her life. And maybe I'll get a bit personal and reflecting but talking as someone who's going through her first relationship and have been struggling with it for the last couple months, I don't want to feel like I have to stay in a relationship that is not making me feel confortable enough just because he was my many firsts, or worst, because I feel like I won't find anything better for me. I think that's a really unhealthy point of this relationship, of this mindset. Then in Mockingjay, we got an entire paragraph of Katniss telling us why she choose Peeta over Gale and I think that's beautiful, because she describes exactly what does she needs.

“You're mine, I'm yours. It's written in the stars"

I think no one needs an explanation about what's wrong with this relationship, but yeah, kind of the same thing with this one, it's also a declaration rooted in trauma. Sadly many people got Coriolanus "politeness" as human decensy, but it was just a manipulation thing to get the best of every situation for him. Besides just imagine staying with a violent and possesive partner just because you think you are meant to be, of course we then see Lucy Gray take her choice to leave Corio when she sees the first signs of his madness and cruelty.

“I'm content where she's content. Like the geese, we did mate for life"

My problem with this statement is kind of the same that with Katniss' statement, or at least with the romantization of it, the stick to first love issue, and I'm saying this as someone who loves and romantize first loves and young lovers a lot, I think it's beautiful being certain of your feelings or comitments to another person, BUT I'm also realistic or try to be, and I know first loves rarely get a "happily ever after" because of course you are young, there's a lot to get to know, what you want, and there's not scenario in which Haymitch gets reaped and his and Lenore Dove relationship would work after their teen year, even if Snow hadn't killed get their relationship would start to worn out and fracture for many many reasons (I have say it in others post so I won't get deep into it). Also we now for a fact that GEESE DO NOT MATE FOR LIFE.

So, what this three quotes have in common?

1) the meaning or implication that without the other you just can't be or have a life, 2) that they all come from a place of guilt and trauma, and 3) the same characters making this statements contradicts it.

Katniss choses Peeta over Gale.

Lucy Gray leaves Coriolanus.

Haymitch's "the walls of a person's heart are not impregnable, not if they have ever known love" + geese don't mate for life.

[t1oui]

my brain is screaming "current day sotr au!!" so um. hi

haymitch, lenore dove, wyatt, and louella are all fucking losers. yk what maysilee too actually. her "meanest girl in town" reputation gets her kicked to the curb and now she's stuck with the stoners (and that one 7th grade girl???)

lenore dove is the type of girl to drink out of a hose but refuse to drink tap water

lenore dove is generally feral and she happily corrupts maysilee

like if this pick me is joining her friend group well. she might as well be brought over to the dark side

"lenore dove and maysilee getting high and building a blanket fort to protect themselves from... who knows man they're tripping balls", my brain says

wyatt takes lenore dove to protests bc he's tall and she can sit on his shoulders. somehow she always obtains a megaphone

maysilee & wyatt are the definition of wlw/mlm solidarity

the gang playing music together (and doing it well)

the gang playing music together while high (they think they're doing it well but it's just a bunch of teenagers banging on pots and pans while lenore dove & maysilee yell)

(tam amber and clerk carmine are so done w their house being the hang out house lmao)

oh also clerk carmine gets to be w his bf openly. so.

merilee, maysilee, & lenore dove friendship (the twins hear asterid pining, lenore dove hears burdock pining, and they need a support group bc omfg just get together guys it's not that hard ;_;)

idk why but my brain reeeaaaally wants wyatt and otho mellark to kiss. like. i genuinely have no fucking clue but i follow my heart so ig theyre gonna smooch a lil

also jsyk wyatt is always the designated sober person of the friend group

photographer wyatt who loves capturing his friends' worst moments when they're tripping out <3

in middle school two of my friends had a race on all fours and i feel like that's something louella and haymitch would do

i just realized i havent mentioned lenore dove's geese. THEY'RE THERE GUYS one of them is probably named rainbow bc of lucy gray (the rainbows are not a smart breed. lenore dove has gone through about 30 of them)

haymitch and lenore dove are a power couple <3

something something haymitch makes louella and ampert hang out while he and the older kids go to a party and louella is like "this nerd is boring" and she runs off to go to the party and then ampert follows her and she's like dang nerd you're not as bad as i thought (watch the short film brothergirls and the vibes im going for make way more sense ok?? the concepts are not at all similar but the vibes are perfect)

ringina is such a compelling character to me and i want more of her friendship w haymitch so yeah that too

idk im just yapping i might make a part 2 if i have more thoughts but this is all for now. actually the whole thing is kinda inspired by the vibes of brothergirls so go watch that pleaaaaseee

[maritteknewtheenemy]

It seems like your internal misogyny is showing…

Hi bad faith anon! Super cool of you to leave this here without any sort of meaningful attempt to have a discussion or example of this so called misogyny, but okay, I’ll bite. What makes me so misogynistic? I’ll assume this is about my outspoken dislike for Lenore Dove (because it’s always about Lenore fucking Dove.)

I'm only going to say this once, so listen closely (this goes to all the other bad faith anons in my inbox too, you're not each getting a response). Disliking Lenore Dove- or any other female character- is not inherently misogynistic. In fact, there's a real problem in pretending any character is above criticism just because she's female. Disliking a female character 'for no reason' or because they 'have a bad vibe' is misogyny. Disliking a female character just because she's female is misogyny. Disliking a female character just for being good looking is misogyny. Disliking a female character for 'getting in the way' of a ship or dumping your favourite character is misogyny. none of these reasons have any bearing on why I dislike Lenore Dove.

Disliking a female character because she is poorly written, two dimensional character, is not misogyny. I dislike Lenore Dove because she has no characterisation beyond being a reckless wannabe 'rebel' and being Haymitch's perfect, infallible girlfriend. Disliking a female character because the narrative refuses to acknowledge any of their flaws or give them any in the first place is not misogyny. I dislike Lenore Dove because she falls into this trap. Haymitch can't fathom her being anything but perfect, and sure you could argue then that it's just his narration that makes her this way, but it's pretty clear that Suzanne Collin's wanted Lenore Dove to be a martyred, saintlike figure who was so noble and tragic and unproblematic in any way. Which makes Lenore boring at best and insufferable at worst.

Disliking a female character for perpetuating negative stereotypes is not misogyny, especially when those stereotypes themselves are misogynistic in nature. Unfortunately, Lenore Dove manages to somehow fit the manic pixie dream girl stereotype and the dead wife trope both within the span of one book, which sucks for her but doesn't endear me to her in the slightest. Google 'manic pixie dream girl stereotype' and this is the first thing that pops up: "The Manic Pixie Dream Girl is a female character trope, often seen in stories written or directed by men, where a quirky, seemingly "different" woman serves primarily as a catalyst for the male protagonist's growth and self-discovery, rather than having her own agency or development." This definition fits Lenore Dove to the letter. She only exists to explain to Haymitch why the capitol is bad and evil, the only reason he needs to get home is to see her, the only reason he gets reaped is because he tries to save her. The epilogue would have us believe the only reason Haymitch does anything worthwhile with the rest of his life, making her the ultimate culmination for any sort of character 'growth'. Lenore Dove fulfils the 'not like other girls' part of the trope by being Covey, inherently separating herself from the rest of the district, neither a poor seam worker or a snooty merchant, but something 'special' and 'different' and 'better'. She doesn't work in the mines or town- she plays the piano! She's pretty without makeup! She wears dresses but not the way Maysile wears dresses, she's not that shallow as to care about her looks! She'd never keep a canary in a cage like evil Maysilee (wait until she finds out what they do to canaries in the coal mines). Then she dies via her untimely gumdrop demise, and because Suzanne Collins spent the whole book establishing that she's perfect and Haymitch's entire world revolves around her, her death is the reason he devolves into alcoholism but she also ultimately becomes the reason he rejoins the rebellion so he can fulfil his promise to her. This cements the two things needed for a male character suffering from the dead wife trope: an explanation for their coldness and descent into substance abuse, and a reason for their later 'redemption'. Lenore Dove robs Haymitch of his agency, but she only ever existed as a plot device to further his story and growth (if you could call Haymitch's progressive character assassination in this book 'growth').

Personally anon, I find the way Suzanne Collins wrote Lenore Dove and the choices she made with her character to be misogynistic and deserving of criticism, criticism which I have contributed to. But disliking a character who only exists to further a man's story and who is nothing but a poorly written amalgamation of various misogynistic tropes is not misogynistic, it's just part of reading critically and not putting Suzanne Collin's work on a pedestal just because she's the one who wrote it. If Lenore Dove existed in a popular fanfic, the fandom would hate her. She'd be ripped to shreds. No one would be crying 'misogyny' then, but because Suzanne Collin's wrote her and she's vaguely similar in appearance to Lucy Grey, apparently Lenore Dove criticism is an unfathomable sin.

I would have LOVED Lenore Dove if she was written better. She had great potential, but the execution of her character was straight up horrendous and she ended up being insufferable to read and impossible to care about.

Misogyny is a huge issue in society and in media, including in fandom spaces. It's dangerous and in the real world it kills people. This is a pretty loaded thing to leave in someones inbox just because they don't like a character that you do. Maybe think about that. It's free to keep your mouth shut, just like it's free to block tags and keep scrolling if you're not mature enough to have an adult conversation about a piece of media or a character you enjoy and be able to disagree constructively. But don't drop into a strangers inbox, hiding behind the anonymous button, and leave bad faith comments like this. Either be open to a conversation, willing to explain your side and your viewpoints without resorting to insults or callouts, or just move on. Like I said, I'm only saying all this once and will not respond to any other anons like this, so don't waste your time typing them out.

For a story that tells you straight up on the first page that it's about the dangers of propaganda and groupthink a lot of this fandom takes one idea or one interpretation of a character and treats it like gospel that must be defended at all costs. Crying misogyny to anyone who dislikes Lenore Dove seems to like seems to be the weapon of choice of her defenders, and I'm begging y'all to not do that. There's a difference between disliking Lenore Dove because of how she's written and disliking Lenore Dove because she's a girl, and it's dangerous to conflate the two. Words mean things. Misogyny is a huge problem. If you're calling out misogyny, make sure you're actually calling out misogyny, otherwise the word is going to lose all meaning and it will be a lot harder to call out real misogyny when you see it.

Yes, I dislike Lenore Dove and always will. No, this does not make me a misogynist. Learn what misogyny actually is before you start saying stuff like this to strangers on the internet who just happened to dislike a character you enjoy.

[biichama]

Okay, so, admittedly it's been a good few years since I actually read the Hunger Games books, but am I like the only person in the world who sees all these sapphic undercurrents between Madge Undersee and Katniss? That cheek kiss? Just the fact that she gives Katniss her pin, which was an heirloom of her dead aunt who also got reaped? Those little scenes between them in Catching Fire? I'm not the only one who picked up on a vibe, am I?

Like yes, I know, there's this whole thing after Madge brings over the morphling where Katniss thinks Haymitch is implying that Madge secretly likes Gale because of the strawberries but like Katniss also delivered those strawberries. And when the only scene I remember them sharing has Gale trying to shame Madge for not having to take out tesserae... I don't know, it feels like it makes more sense to me that Madge was in love with Katniss and brought her the medicine because Gale is important to Katniss.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this. There's just these vibes.

[di-daynamic]

Haymitch trying so hard to undermine and outsmart the Capitol because he thinks his loved ones will be safe from the consequences thanks to his dying vs Katniss just trying to keep her loved ones safe and unknowingly rebelling. . . With Haymitch's help in both because he is (part of) the army he would've needed back in the day to succeed, to be as 'lucky' as Katniss giving Haymitch having the flint striker but not able to find quartz vibes oh I am going to be sick, they are just the same.

[mariigoldzz]

Victors of 12 HCS:

・Lucy Gray would looooove snorkeling or exploring the ocean! All of the wildlife would be really fascinating to her. She'd love eels

・Peeta once tripped on a banana and went flying. Mario Kart style. Haymitch laughed at him for 10 minutes.

・After the war, Haymitch's alcoholism became an off and on thing. He'd try to make efforts but would always end up crawling back to his addiction. Just one nightmare or flashback would send him right back to the bottle. (I see a lot of people hc that haymitch would eventually get sober, but I just don't see it.)

・LUCY GRAY IS A WINTER BABY!! She was born in February I don't make the rules (idk anything about zodiac signs she just gives February vibes to me)

・ Peeta was born in late September

・Katniss 100% believes in ghosts and spirits. Peeta does not, but he thinks it's cute.

・Haymitch and Katniss are cat people. Peeta likes bunnies and draws them often.

・ Lucy Gray would catch cicadas w muade ivory.

・Peeta and Katniss did NOT pull a jk Rowling and name their kids "rue prim everdeen." or "Finnick cinna everdeen." their kids have nature names

・Haymitch is really good at card games. Like, scarily good.

・Haymitch would listen to angsty rock music. He'd like Green Day, grunge in general, linkin park, etc.

・Lucy Gray would love Dolly Parton.