#I'm in a Villain Liker Arc

[osterby]

There's some overlap, I can definitely see why fans of one would be fans of the other. But ... everything you said, they are different kinds of characters with different motivations and goals.

If you want another FFXIV villain to compare Zoraal Ja to, it's Ilberd. Both of them are so full of passion for a specific thing (Ilberd for Ala Mhigo, Zoraal Ja for his own idealised concept of his father) that they self destruct and destroy the very thing they idolize in the proccess. Both Ilberd and Zoraal Ja are fuelled and destroyed by their own intense emotion.

the 'zoraal ja is the same as zenos' statements online ESP on twitter... i disagree with this notion LMAO 😋 zoraal ja actually desires conquest and destruction for his right to be ruler and is fueled by pent-up hatred and internalized pride. his suppressed emotions overwhelmed and blinded him, thus his motivation is fueled BY emotion! whereas zenos doesn't care in the slightest about his right to the throne, nor does he care about...much else. he is motivated for the desire TO feel emotion due to the ritualistic monotony of his stunted experimental upbringing. they hit slightly similar narrative beats surface-level wise but simply put...? not the same character. not even the same character archetypes, i would even say.

[leosabi]

what are some plot threads/things you'd have wanted to see happen in BH6:TS that didn't?

—gelatinous-globster

@gelatinous-globster

karmi finding out their identities. sorry for being based (a karmi liker) skjdfhskjdfh

a full momakase redemption arc, except i would still want her to be a petty thief—but more like a playful rival than a true villain, and helping them out against a big bad.

characters besides hiro dealing with their grief

i would've liked if city of monsters could've been a full season, with the fugitives arc somehow integrated. i personally think the way they did it was a little strange and the second big threat came up as a surprise at the end of the season, so having a clearer threat besides just the cops the whole time may have helped the fugitives arc with its stakes. but they probably also realized they might not be able to get the trina stuff done after season 2 so i can't blame them for doing it this way

the fujitas. i know you all agree with me

we can leave the bonzai bombers in the concept art book though i doooooon't think we need them (x_x)

and obviously, more wasabi content. and more gogo content too. i had counted at one point and i'm pretty sure they tied for least focus episodes. and on that note, less fred focus episodes?? i think he has almost as many as hiro??? like man i love ya but seriously?? completely uneven distribution on the writers' parts.

[princess-of-the-corner]

https://www.tumblr.com/princess-of-the-corner/781630647287660544/dont-you-hate-when-you-try-to-find-crossover?source=share

As a Batman liker (both fanfic and actual comics) I do think it's pretty unfair that ML is the only cast getting salted here. Like. Imagine it in reverse.

There's a trend of woobifying Tim thanks to some misunderstood fandom-telephone garbled events in the Red Robin arc, so a reverse ML-Bat saltfic would probably involve Tim fucking off to Paris for something. If we wanna get really salty and have the equivalent of "Bustier lost a student in Gotham," then Tim is hunting assassins/being hunted with no supervision and without telling anyone, so he has no backup. If we're being a little more tame, he just followed a lead there.

He swoops in and saves the ML crew from something terrible, but his overexaggerated self-destructive borderline suicidal tendencies means he gets seriously injured in the process. Ladybug didn't have time to summon a lucky charm to fix it, so now the ML cast adopts him and puts him on bedrest.

They learn about all the Oh-So-Concerning things he's been through where we learn that Damian is a unredeemable hellspawn bent on murder, Stephanie is an abusive and uncaring ex, Dick is a bitch who doesn't appreciate or understand Tim, Jason is. . .still regular pre-flashpoint Jason, meaning he's actually a full-scale villain, and Bruce was dead but now he isn't but he doesn't care about Tim and only treats him as a tool.

The crew offers Tim a miraculous (probably a bat one, but maybe a robin one) and does the thing that usually happens to Jason in fanfic where they latch onto him as "cool older brother mentor who we have to bully into self care" so hard that Tim improves for their sake if not for his.

Bruce and co. show up at some point to be all "We need you Tim, how could you just abandon your responsibility Tim, we can't believe your being so selfish Tim," and there's a speech about how awful they all are and how Tim has truly Found His Place in Paris and that he has a new calling training these guys and that he was never appreciated anyway yadda yadda yadda. Then the Miraculous people kick them out of France.

Tim probably gets adopted by the Dupain-Chengs, but depending on the fic writers and how sympathetic they wanna make Gabriel, he might go there instead.

Now imagine there are like. Enough of these that "Tim Drake & Marinette Dupain-Cheng" is a more popular tag than people Tim actually talks to, like Young Justice or his civilian friends (I'd say Huntress but I think Tim and Marinette already outnumbers her because Helena's criminally underrated).

The TBAB version of this is Tim, Steph, and Cass (and maybe Duke) all take a little crime fighting field trip to Paris and learn about the shitsack situation there.

Steph, Adrien, and Chloe bond so hard that everyone's lives are in danger. They were last seen with as many chocolate bars as the combined credit cards of Bruce, Audrey, Andre, and Gabe can buy, handing them out for free in exchange for standing in this very specific spot for a few hours (By the time they are done, there will be a blockade surrounding agreste manor and the hotel and it will not be moved until some shitty parents give into demands).

Tim solves the Hawkmoth crisis in 2 minutes and yoinks Lila (and maybe Felix) for his "morally questionable competent individuals that I'm blackmailing/bribing/threatening into working for me" crowd, and Alya and Nino force Tim and Steph to have A Conversation about their emotionally fraught relationship.

Kagami and Cass get in a one-on-one fight (that Cass wins of course but she's impressed by Kagami's skills and takes her on as a protege). Cass also offhandedly beat Nora in 2 seconds and spends the rest of the fic getting pestered by Nora, who wants Cass to join her wrestling team.

Duke finally gets to talk about obscure pop-culture shit that none of the buck-wild-backstory bat crowd ever got to understand, and he and Nino bond over their shared hatred of brainwashed clowns. He insists on helping the cast start a We Are Robin Paris chapter.

As is on-brand for these 4, by the time they think to call anyone about where they are and what they're doing, they've got a brand new international team of 20+ magical girls for the ever extending Titans roster and have also put at least 3 shitty adults behind bars, probably more. Bruce is crying in a corner about his inability to control his horde of children, Dick and Babs are too busy laughing at Bruce to be worried, and Jason and Damian are offended about not getting invited.

Honestly I feel like my favorite options are no salt. Yes character flaws, but not salt.

[callizinc]

Hiiii hello calli... sorry to come into your askbox to ramble again, ily and im Sorry. Ignore this if want. I just.. you mentioned murder dr0nes, right? And said it wasn't that good? Well, I got curious, cause I've seen a lot of people liking it n stuff, so I was like.... now what's the deal here?

So I watched the pilot. (Only the pilot!! These are first impressions). And ummm.. hardcore murder dr0ne likers look away please 🙈 genuinely sorry to shit on your #Thing.

I think the main thing that bothered me was.. that the dialogue was kinda. Painful for me?

Like the rest was fine. The animation was beautiful. The story is pretty simple so far but it's nothing bad. Some elements are intriguing, particularly the themes of complacency vs fighting back, and N's character. The character designs could be better (you have so much you can do with robots. Why did you make them all look the same. Cmon...) but the dialogue....

Like. I get who this is catering to. And I know I'm probably not in that audience and that's fine. Others will enjoy exactly what I don't

But it's just so?? Personally grating to me? Like all the therapy speak and meta jokes? Speech made up of quips and stuff? Like I get it they're trying to be quirky and all but it just feels like. Too quirky, for me. Quirkiness overload. And it wouldn't be as bad if All characters didn't talk this more or less exact same way. Like: Why are these real characters in their real world talking about redemption arcs and sad backstories and accounts of murder like they're aware that they're characters. I just don't get it.

Unless it ties into the lore, it's just so strange to me

It makes them feel flatter. Not as real. With the villains also - they do their best to make them these evil murderous girl bosses, and all the power to them, #ilovemurderousgirlbosses, but the way they're written, they don't really have the space to be? Anything else? They're just evil and #crazy. And like, of course, maybe they're developed further later on, but just speaking my first impressions here

Also againnn with the daddy issues.. it feels even worse cause like. I'm struggling to feel any real connection between uzi and her dad. Which is probably the point. But idk, the way they both turned so fast on each other... do they care for each other at all? I'm aching for some parent+child relationships with actual depth and sentimentality here

Also while I enjoy the themes of complacency vs fighting back, I kinda... didn't like how the 'complacent' side was portrayed. As just bumbling nerds who hang out all day and can't face the reality of the real world. Idk. It just seems kind of weird to me, when drawing real world parallels? Like. People who choose to not risk it when it comes to getting hate crimed and downright murdered just for who they are aren't cowards. They aren't stupid. We even see, they must have been really smart to build those doors! But why are they portraying them as such wimps and like they're idiots!! Real world people in that position would be a lot more nuanced!!!

Idk. Its a cartoon, so. Whatever.

Just some thoughts

Again, this is only about the pilot, and maybe the show massively improves from here on and I'll be eating my words, and I'm very sorry again to yuck on someone's yum, but. Yeah!! Just my personal first thoughts ;^^

We interrupt my enaposting to bring you: Me dogging on some random show that no one here gaf about but ME!!!!!!!!! and you know what this is MY HOUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So mg i hope you know i was reading this ask going YES... HA HA HA... YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Because on the inside i have been DYING to talk about this with someone This is such a fucking beautiful day. BUCKLE UP

FIRST OF ALL: I AGREE. 100 THOUSAND FUCKING PERCENT. ON ALL OF THIS. I do have some other things to add, and obviously a few small things to disagree with cause you've only seen one episode LOL, but nevertheless. No yeah abso fucking lutely

A fun fact i didn't share before is that i actually tried to start watching murder drones months ago, but gave up on it halfway through episode 1 because i. Couldn't. do the dialogue. I couldn't it was fucking killing me god i could not fucking stand it 😭

And if my decision to pick it back up had Anything to do with the fact that one of the characters, V, has the same voice actress as meanie Ena. N. No it didn't. Why would you even say that No it. didn't. Smiles. No that had nothing to do with it, nothing. Nothing! Nothing at all these things were totally unconnectdd These things have nothing to do wirth each other Guys it's ok Guys believe me please Guys please YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE ME GUYS. GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok anyway. The thing about the dialogue is that i KIND of understand why it's like that. Especially having seen the whole series, I can confidently say that, well, murder drones Loves stories—it especially loves the type of edgy stories, the "baby's first DeviantArt oc" stories that people have long made fun of. And i genuinely love this, i Love that murder drones embraces the type of character and story writing that cringe culture has mocked, and I'm truly very glad the show exists. .........Doesn't make this dialogue any less bad though LIKE I THINK YOU COULD'VE GOTTEN THIS IDEA ACROSS IN. LIKE. ANY DIFFERENT WAY 😭😭

The dialogue in this regard also does genuinely get better on in the later episodes, but it's still There every now and then. 😭 (The show also becomes so intensely plot focused on a bizarrely written confusing mystery that there's... um... less. dialogue 😭 In general. to be honest. So)

It's weird cause i see some people justify it as "Well they're robots so of course they're not gonna talk like humans, they're talking like imitations of humans!" And like. If this idea was ever brought up in the show at all i'd maybe be fine with that, But the bots are literally just. People. They're just people made of chrome with glowy eyes, almost nothing about them being bots affects anything in the story, which honestly. Is fine. That's just a really dumb justification imo 😭

And anyway, for the rest of your ask: Yeah. Yeah. Uzi's dad is a really weirdly written character for the whole show, I do not like him 😭 We do see later that they genuinely care for each other, but his handling is still very strange, i'm not a fan. It's like he's a main character, but is written with the depth of a comedic relief side character, and just, Why?????/ Why????????????????

It ties into your other complaint, that all the drones besides Uzi and the Murderers are written as like. Really stupid? Especially given almost all of them are intentionally stereotypes, ie: dumb jock, there's one later that's just Mean Girl, etc. I understand it's supposed to be another meta thing, A commentary but also celebration of stories and tropes: But that's Literally all these characters are???

😭 Especially given later on, SO many of the worker drones die and. No one cares. They're almost all just dumb and flat and die and nobody gaf. Like ???? WHY??????? WHAT IS HAPPENING?????????????

Plus. No yeah they all look The Same. I think i misidentified literally every single character at least one time except for uzi and N. which is. ....Unfortunate....

I will say, the later show goes actually like... Into surprisingly LITTLE detail on the complacency vs. fighting back theme. I honestly don't even think they intentionally made that a theme at all. Do i wish they did things differently and actually tried to do that? Absolutely. I'm the guy who interprets every story to be about how Society Is Bad after all. But instead that's not there and we just have this which. #Okay

Plus, about how the worker drones are just written to be so Dumb and so Nothing, They're all just kind of okay with the fact that the people who spent years killing all of them are just like. Here, now. 😭 Which is an entirely different thing i can't get into now LOL

OK. EXHALES DEEPLY. Despite the insane amount of bullshit i just said, I will say. I do still like murder drones. The animation is beautiful and the fight scenes especially are insanely good. I also, despite my Many Gripes, really like the characters. At least the like, main 3 who are actually written with an Attempt at depth. wipes a tear from my eye. I care them and i like them very much....

But. everything else.... It's something. Some of it's really really cool, other parts of it Isn't. If you wanna watch some genuinely really awesome fight scenes, and look at cute robots, With the connective tissue between these scenes being bizarrely written and immensely confusing. Well you've come to the right place ig 😭

[apopcornkernel]

i hate that the word "ship" has grown to mean "i see this romantic/sexual relationship as healthy and happy and want them to be together" bc no. like when i say i "ship" mae and lex that is absolutely not true because all mae likers want lex to be run over by a bus. when i say i "ship" them i mean their dynamic fascinates me and I'm very interested in the antagonistic hero villain relationship that could have ensued in the aftermath of their breakup arc

[fallingtowers]

look i'm a season 6 liker but definitely its biggest flaw is the trio. like, on paper they're great, for a few different reasons. the fact that they're just some guys aligns well with the feelings of meaninglessness buffy is battling this season, and they're clearly intended to make a wider point about misogyny. the way their arc is set up is really interesting too, with them beginning as comic relief villains before taking a hard tonal turn with katrina's death. unfortunately it doesn't land, because the trio don't work as comic relief, because they're not funny

[personalzombie-tv]

A Year predicted in Music via shuffling the Liked playlist

JAN - Zombie covered by Stary Olsa - Everything is going to shit (this is expected). We will persevere via reconnection to our roots and the inherent escapism of medieval fantasy

FEB - The Search by NF - A crisis of self and importance. Search for hope no matter how much it feels hopeless.

MAR - Show Your Style by Miracle of Sound - FUCK IT WE BALL. IF THEY HURT YOU, BITE THEM (theme of birthday boy :D)

APR - Dance Upon Your Grave by The Brothers Comatose - vengeance is sweet, and there is no sweeter vengeance is outliving those who hurt you and living well.

MAY - Turn out the Lights by The Crane Wives - Ah. return of the crisis. This is not unexpected but we'll simply take a breath and chill.

JUN - "Listen to Your Heart." "No." by Cheekface - A fusion of the manic energy of March and April and the rage at society that's been simmering since 2016 but with the vibes of "you can't fire me i quit". We are once again biting people.

JULY - I'm the Bad Guy covered by Caleb Hyles - Oh... Oh good time for a villain arc in earnest

AUG - Feed the Machine by Poor Man's Poison - the trend continues

SEPT - meltdown by iroha(sasaki) - oh Rin Kagamine we're really in it now.

OCT - Daft Meme (Technologic) by Cyranek. Either a full mental breakdown or more fuck it we ball. It's October so both are very likely

NOV - Gasoline by I Prevail - BURN THEM DOWN FIGHT THE SYSTEM I AM UNKILLABLE AND ALSO VERY MANIC

DEC - Moon Waltz by Cojum Dip - I may have fucked around too hard and am finding out. Oh god oh fuck. I'll see you on the moon :')

saw other people doing this and i'm nothing if not a divination liker and music enjoyer so i thought i'd hop on the trend. this is also a very nice sampling of my likes playlist

[zvahl]

hi hi!! 2, 13, and 24 for the ask game?

02. favorite main character, side-character, ship, and villain?

Unsurprising, but Laurance is probably my fave main. Garroth is also up there. Fave supporting characters are def Dante and Vylad.

I'm not super dedicated to shipping, but I like most -mau ships atleast a little. Garrance also has a place in my heart, just for old times sake if nothing else. But I'm gonna go with with Vylance on this, because I think the ship name being violence is kind of funny and I like Vylad and Laurance's dynamic a lot.

Zane (and by extension the Jury) are my favorite villains, no doubt. Zane is classic and the Jury had so much potential I think was wasted. I always liked that rebirth was clearly setting up more Jury build up, and im so sad it never continued.

13. have your sentiments towards any characters/ships changed over time? (for instance, you didn't care for them at all but now you're obsessed with them, or you used to love them but it's faded over time.)

I was never exactly a committed Aaron Despiser but I think I've developed a new appreciation for him the older I've gotten. He's still not my favorite but MCD Aaron is chill, though I much prefer his late season 1/early season 2 portrayal. As I've matured I've also come to understand and enjoy a lot of the arcs I didn't put much thought into as a kid, like Dante who I think is probably one of the best written characters in the series. Overall though I can't think of any character who I've completely 180°'d on, opinion wise.

24. if you could design your own line of merch, assuming money or time wasn't an issue, what would that look like?

It's kind of lame, but posters probably. I dislike basically every official poster Aphmau has ever put out, I don't care for the character designs + I feel like the standard character bust/head lineup collage is kind of generic. I'd absolutely LOVE some in-universe style things, like wanted posters or recruitment flyers for the Jury/guard academies, etc. I eat that shit up Everytime I see it. Any clothing merch would have to be something that isn't Too obvious because I don't want to admit I'm an MCD liker in public 😭

[odukora-ramblez]

I always joke abt my ass being a liker of romance that hates crappily written love triangle esque tropes so lets push that out of the way for a bit and let me rant abt another lame ass trope I hate w a burning passion aka -> mfs w no pre established history for as far as the story went suddenly being revealed to go way back lol, no I'm not talking abt dropping hints that they've known each other prior to the events of the story before the reveal that details abt said bond, I'm talking abt the cliche *rando suddenly shows up and the char just somehow manages to get along w them rlly well or usually, in a romance genre setting falls for them but its only very late into the story where there's a sudden cop out that they've known each other prior to this*

And suddenly its some *oh they actually go way back* but there's just this lack of buildup that reeks of fake idk man am I biased this is also stupid cuz the trope cannnn be written well if done well (I literally use this in Swan Feather the way Dulcet is secretly Tang altered into a beast this whole time, supposedly from a reader pov they would be able to thread the connection quite early on but Heron himself doesn't figure it out until much later, thats the juicy shit, amongst many lol) like it shouldn't feel like the audience is suddenly thrown some wack info without buildup this goes in line w the twist villain trope done wrong™ aka randomly deciding that a char in the gang will betray the rest without ever throwing hints that it's a motif they've had since the beginning it just feels like a lazy cop out ..... A subcategory of this that ties in the love triangle is also usually main char falls for someone but suddenly *childhood friend that moved away a long time ago returns back and is now hot™ and now there's like a dilemma and shit* LMAO idk man the rando that returns never has a reason to... Its very plot device... Like oh it's just there to cause the dilemma ofc what else could it be...

Which is just so lameeee cuz the *we go way back and have known each other since forever* is one of my fav tropes ever I've used them over all my stories several times, most of the time said bond being a long term bond has a purpose on the narrative like oh if you took it away from their arcs its just not the same story anymore ffs, you can't have TEF without Jinglio and Oakrion going way back the same way u can't have POE without Cimble going way back the same way u can't have SF without Tangeron going way back thats like the core of the story altogether lol like if char has a bond™ make it matter man .......

[elfdragon12]

There was a post I remember from a while ago, and to paraphrase part of it:

“The reason most redemption arcs fall flat is that people aren’t writing redemption arcs, they’re writing characters they want to be forgiven.” And I think that hits a lot of nails on a lot of heads. In terms of both the other characters and the audience. Focusing more on how to make a character someone who must be liked rather than the story they’re supposedly trying to tell. Or why the redemption is there in the first place.

The sad part is the “reason” for Megatron is pretty obvious. He’s popular and Hasbro likes money. Same reason he likely became more sympathetic in the first place. I’m honestly kind of curious how that worked out for them. There are clearly plenty of people who ate it up, but also plenty who enjoy Megatron because he’s a Big Metal Bastard. And likely a lot who enjoy both.

That said I also think it’s telling that “redemption arcs” tend to only happen to villains who are viewed as “deserving” it. More sympathetic backstories, more tragic reasons, etc. Whether real or imagined. Despite the fact it theoretically could happen to anyone. I think part of this is the trend of looking at characters as people, which is fun for fandom stuff and connecting to the material, rather than narrative tools, which is helpful for actual critique or writing.

In a more general sense when you can figure out which character is the writer’s favourite the quality of things… tends to go down. Which isn’t entirely relevant to the discussion but I’ve personally noticed it happening more with villains.

Yes, I agree with this.

Megatron redemption arcs do not work for me because of this. It's like prozd's Vegetalo sketches. Sure, Megatron did terrible things in past, but look! He writes poetry and helps Minimus set up holiday decorations/has a human friend now! Clearly, if anyone who hasn't let go of his (extremely recent) atrocities, they're the bad guy!

Also the question of which antagonists are more "deserving" of redemption arcs are a big part of why I didn't want anything to do with the Krakoa arc in the X-Men comics. Watching Hellfire Club members and MR. SINISTER sentence Sabretooth is extremely frustrating!

A big part of this, at least in these franchises, is that there are a lot of fanboys becoming writers now, though it's sometimes longtime writers who develop an ego. (coughFurmancough) It's really obvious in Marvel and DC with Batman and Wolverine. It's a big toss up on how well this turns out. Interestingly, Beast Wars is the best written Transformers show (my sister will argue for Rescue Bots) and, although Bob Forward and Larry DiTillio became more interested as time went on, neither were Transformers fans when the series started.

As a villain liker myself, I do think favoritism is very relevant because of villain apologists. However, good writers can have favorites and still be objective. You can tell that Dinobot is Bob Forward's favorite, but I would argue that Forward's favoritism doesn't get in the way of the overall story. Rattrap criticizes him freely, Dinobot is still wrong when he's wrong, and his flaws aren't hidden or glossed over. Larry DiTillio's favorite was Tarantulas and that didn't keep Tarantulas from getting what he deserved nor was he overpowered.

I like antagonists who are pure villains. However, I'm not against redemption arcs. They just have to be actual redemption arcs and not just the writer trying to make it "okay" to root for them now.

[charmixpower]

Darcy would always be the first to redeem herself. She's smart enough to know half the plans don't work out. It's good AU of her staying and not following her sisters. But I think if they were real biological sisters, Darcy would always be with them. I love the idea of Riven visiting her, this made my mind fly and I ship. I imagine Riven defending her from everyone because he knows she has changed.

It's a shame Rainbow didn't build a redemption arc for the Trix when they helped out in Season 2. It is true, they did not do it to help Winx and Specialists, but for them, but they acted. Something could have been built from that.

I am going to start this response off by restating that I am not a villain liker, I do not mesh well with villains sadly 😔😔

Also I'm really happy you like my little au!!! I've been obessed with Darcy's negative reaction to Darkar for a while now, and making it into a full au was really fun!!!

It's half Darcy being paying enough attention to see the plans won't work (unlike Icy who is blinded by hubris, and Stormy who doesn't pay attention) and half that Icy would never abandon her ambitions and Stormy is incredibly loyal. So Darcy would be the first to think about leaving and these two would refuse to budge

I don't think Darcy would ever leave both her sisters in canon. This is just for the Au. She cares more, so the remorse is powerful enough to quit

Looking back, if you choose to redeem Darcy in this Au it's perfect for Driven because she refused to go on with her sisters because she felt so bad about what happened to him. Did not notice that while writing fnsjksksm. I'm so glad your having fun with that!!

I don't know how you'd make a redemption arc out of the Mega Trix moment. As you said, they didn't act out of a redeeming quality, they were doing the same exact thing they always did but pointed at a new person. Tho, in your defense, I don't think the canon Trix are redeemable? So I'm just not gonna see it lol.

They're only redeemable in this au because they're constantly being influenced by the ancestral witches and choose to fight against them, while I've always seen the Trix as completely in control of their actions. That's probably just a difference in perspective.

I really like charismatic villains who know what their doing is wrong and keep doing it anyways, especially when the third act break down comes and they just completely crumble. So I find irredeemable Trix more personally compelling so I interpret the Trix to fit that skdjsjsjw