#ML Writing Salt

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

Of all the issues I've seen people bring up with The Ruler, one I'm... honestly surprised nobody's mentioned yet is that Nathaniel's mom- a Jewish woman- has an akuma form that is obviously based on the Knights Templar.

The Knights Templar from the Crusades. Who very famously sacked countless Jewish villages and massacred hundreds of Jewish people in the Good Christian Name of God. It was one of the most devastating events in European Jewish history.

So the sheer audacity and tone deafness here is, understandably, astounding to me.

I hadn't seen the akuma until I got this ask so I was surprised to hear it was knight themed. Based on the name, I assumed it was going to be royalty themed, but I guess not! For those who aren't watching the show, this is the akuma:

I know very little about this part of history, so I can't comment on it, but I can absolutely see why it would be offensive based on the summary you gave. I wonder what led them to make this choice. They rarely go for such clear inspiration even when the name invites it. For example, when Rose got akumatized into Princess Fragrance, she looked nothing like any princess I've ever seen! Same for Style Queen and Miracle Queen.

[angelshizuka]

You know another thing I find about Astruc's denial of Chloe's abuse because she isn't a good victim to be very disturbing is the fact that she's a fictional character created by Astruc like she's only a bad victim because you made her to be one let's not even add the annoying fact that one of the people who was made to be a good victim was Andre(her father) like any decent writer who didn't hate his character he created would have redeemed Chloe to show that victims can break their cycle of abuse and would have used both Chloe and Zoe together as a way of making Andre a better father.

Anyways that being said I hope Zag redeems her in the movie so that we would see another crashout from Astruc again because even though I know he's no longer the director for the show and even if they eventually redeem Chloe they will just do it that her leaving with Audrey was consequences for her actions since he doesn't think Audrey is abusive to Chloe anyways.

That's the thing about Chloe's character. Even after her intentionally ruined redemption, she can't even be a good villain/antogonist anymore, because in order to be that, the writer still needs to love the character like that, but TA doesn't.

For TA Chloe has just become a mouthpiece of how awful she is and how amazing literally every character automatically is because of that (I swear, I'm still not over how much praise Zoe got literally because she's not Chloe... like, both the audience and all the characters literally just met her, chill tf down...)

Like, I've talked before how abuse victims can definitely be villains, because being abused isn't enough to make you a good person. But the fact that TA can't even acknowledge that the "irredeemable evil villain" he wants Chloe to be isn't abused at all, says all we need to know about his fucked up mindset on abuse. Especially the way he twisted it like her father was abused by HER still gives me the ick.

I've long lost hope for a Chloe redemption in the show, at least as long as TA is still part of the crew. But if there's anywhere where I actually have hope it might happen, it's definitely the movies! I mean, even TA hated the first movie (because he's an self-absorbed asshole who thinks only things he himself worked on are good), that alone gives me hope for the movie franchise.

[motherofplatypus]

The best part of the London Special was when Ladybug said "Its London time!" and spent 99% of the special being anywhere but London.

[sophieabigail2021]

OH SHUT UP!!!!!

So you're still willing to keep secrets from your boyfriend until one day you're like ".....um.......you know what? I'm in a good mood today, better tell my boyfriend that his father is a terrorist"

That's literally one the dumbest reason to do so, in fact it will make the situation worst like imagine if Adrien is in danger and Ladybug just casually tells him "Oh hey by the way you're not actually human and you have an object that controls your autonomy"

[soundwaveprime]

Marinette is absolutely not responsible for helping Chloe improve as a person and has every right not to help. That doesn't mean however, we are not allowed to criticize her for how her "help" caused more problems and made the situation so much worse. Especially when the show itself brings up how Marinette "tried" again and agian to help and makes such a big deal about it while exaggerating about how much of a lose cause Chloe is, despite how we don't actually see Marinette do ANYTHING beyond getting Chloe to bond with her abuser, which is the exact opposite of help.

Yes Marinette comes from a good house with loving parents and entirely likely she could not fathom a parent hating their child, but that doesn't mean we can't criticize her for reuniting a victim with their abuser. Especially when Marinette witness throughout that same day Audrey belittling chloe non-stop. That's not even mentioning the fact that Marinette getting those to the bond is a LARGE contributor to why chloe backtrack on any progress she made, especially when the thing Marinette got theoss two to bond over in the first place was being MEAN TO OTHERS.

[lizmedi]

Welp guys there you have it, according to Thomas Astruc, apparently neglect isn’t abuse.

I guess by his logic, Gabriel never abused Adrien and Audrey, Andre, Gabriel, Colt, Tomoe and all the season 6 parents are all good parents.

What a great lesson to show 7 year olds you guys coming from the creator himself 😃 /Sarc !

[m3nt4llyr4v3d]

I think it’s fascinating how both the narrative and the in-universe magic system punishes only the teenagers for acting terrible and never the adults.

The universe of Miraculous has an evil transformation, for one, and that transformation only starts killing the user if they’re not an adult. If you’re an adult, the universe itself doesn’t really care

And we all know how the narrative treats its teenage antagonists compared to adult antagonists (Chloe’s treatment compared to her father’s/Gabe’s)

I don’t think I’ve seen anything like it before

[folkloristico]

year of our lord 2025 and thomas astruc is still beefing with children over a fictional character 😭😭😭 “you don’t understand chloé cannot be redeemed because she is privileged and also EVIL” bro you literally redeemed her father who is the white corrupted politician who enabled her behavior since the days she was born. i don’t know if you think your fanbase suffers from long-term memory loss but we actually remember the many times YOU wrote him as corrupted and willingly submitting to chloé’s ebery whim. “yes but that’s because she’s EVIL” and who taught her that? who enabled her? who failed to do their job? do tell us, we’re all ears!

[noone-can-kinda-draw]

lowkey obsessed with ur lilanette art at the moment esp the post break up one is SOOO GOOD the finer waving, the head placement with marinette and lila AHH get their dynamic down so well! Desperate for the lore(if their any if their not that totally fine too!) behind the art

AAAHHH TY IM FLATTERED ✨

AND OFC OFC LORE FOR EVERYONEEE (plus, art of the moment Mari realized she had a crush heheheh)

in a nutshell, im making a rewrite of miraculous, and this is part of it! The plot is mostly the same, and Lila comes in at the end of season 1 and gets akumatized, and that’s how her and Mari meet. Note that Lila still gets akumatized on purpose, but we don’t learn that until season 3 ish. Lila says she came here to escape her old school but in actuality, she came here for nefarious purposes, specifically because she’s figured out that ladybug and cat noir both live in this schools district, and hence go to this school. She wants their miraculous’s, as well as hawk moths, to overtake the role and remake it in her own image. She befriends Mari because she’s great friends with everyone, and by extensions Lila’s ticket to finding ladybug and cat noir. Eventually, Adrien starts dating Kagami, and Mari gets really depressed because she thinks she never going to be with him. She gets over it (as much as she can) and she develops a crush on Lila, and the two start dating. Lila defiantly likes Mari, but kinda in the way Bill cipher likes Stanford Pines form gravity falls. Lila sees Mari as someone relatable and as a cute trophy to have by her side after she takes over the world. Mari defiantly loves Lila more than Lila loves here though. I’ll talk about their breakup more in further posts, the fallout of the toxic yuri will be INSANE

ask some more questions too if yall want :)

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

Honestly, a lot of episodes this season are making me suspect that season five was initially going to be the final season for the series but due to more seasons being greenlit because money, the writers near the last minute rework it to the dumpster fire we got, and are currently using season 6 to throw shit at the walls in the hopes of finding something that sticks for S7 onwards.

I mean just look at some of the episode stingers, not only are a handful of them setting up different plot threads but a handful of them could easily be transformed into seasons worth of content, if they do things right.

I don't think that's a mater of speculation. I think that's just cold hard fact. Season five was originally the show's final season then it got renewed and they had to adjust the plans to accommodate new seasons. There's some strong evidence that season five was already planned out before that happened and it only got minimal edits post renewal. Whose fault that is we can't say for sure (animation takes a long time so it can be hard/impossible to do major rewrites after a certain point especially when you have to get scripts approved by third parties which also takes time) but we can reasonably assume that this renewal messed with the quality of the final product.

For example, it was originally announced that the reveal would happen in season five and that obviously didn't come to pass, but Kwami's Choice would have worked way better if it lead to a reveal. It would also explain things like Adrien worrying about telling Marinette that he's leaving while never mentioning Ladybug. There are even leaked scripts out there that show that the ending we got for season five basically matches the original planned ending, the only difference is that Emilie was alive and the lies came from her, not Ladybug which makes it super annoying that the writers are trying to act like the lies were planned as a big deal. They weren't. As best we can tell, they were originally part of a happy ending.

[angelshizuka]

I don't speak French, so can't really comment on that specifically, but TA's using his language as a reason why he doesn't consider what Chloe's parents did to her as neglect, because apparently French's definition of neglect is only failing to provide your children's basic needs (TA lists off shelter and food as examples).

But... excuse me?! Making sure your children's emotional needs are met IS an important part in providing for them, so SHOULD fall under that definition. And the fact that so many adults don't understand why it's so important, aka why they don't see it as abuse, is exactly why so many suffer from it.

So, even when using the "but in French" excuse TA's bullshit reason still doesn't make any sense and he literally just admitted he's part of the problem why emotional abuse isn't taken seriously.

Also, people seriously need to learn the difference between the "is Chloe redeemable" and "was Chloe abused" debates, they aren't the same topic. Even a "worse than a literal terrorist evil Chloe" (sure TA) would still be an abuse victim from what we've literally seen on screen.

I just really need people to understand both good and bad people can be victims of abuse, so anyone's dislike of Chloe and how "evil" she is holds no value in this conversation.

[notmarimbles]

in preparation for s6 dropping soon where are my people. i.e. those who genuinely love ml and the characters and have not historically been salters but who are disappointed/frustrated with the current writing direction and are going sort of crazy about it. the ones who feel salty bc they can’t summon their usual sugar for a story they no longer recognize. the ones who gave all their benefits of the doubt until they ran out. The haters with the hearts of gold!!!! I need u babes 🙏 hold my hand pls

[motherofplatypus]

No Closure For Abuse Victim?

It comes to my attention that all the abuse victims in the show never really got a closure with their abuser. In fact, most of them even had it worse.

Adrien never got to confront his dad as himself and call him out for his mistreatment. He lived his final days with his father seeing him as a monster that he is, and when Gabe died, he sees him as a hero.

Chloe never got to confront her mom either for neglecting her for YEARS, and when she met her, Audrey attacked her with verbal abuse. In the end, she had to live with her own abuser for some fucked up reasons.

Felix is a hard case bcs we never see if he confronted Colt or not, but from that avant-garde play, apparently he didn't. Colt just died, and that's about it.

The only one who gets to have a closure with their abuser, based on how TA and the writers see it, is Andre, by sending his daughter he never raised off with her abuser and kidnap someone else's daughter bcs she's better than your own.

Im not sure to put Marinette here or not with Chloe.

It's really messed up that the writers created these abused characters and never gave them a chance to heal from their mistreatment even after the first arc finale.

Well, that's just my opinion. Im most likely wrong about some of those points, so share your thoughts.

And speaking of mistreatment, please spare your time to sign this petition to kick israel from the UN and ban them from Nobel Ceremony for illegally colonizing and committing genocide upon the Palestinians. Over 17.000 children have been murdered by them in less than a year, children like Marinette and Adrien, and even younger than them. They put civilians inside a concentration camp like the Nazi did during WW2.

All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing. No more silence, no more ignorance. End the occupation now!

[newhyperfixationhereicome]

How MLB Season 5 Finale completely obliterates Marinette and Adrien's character arcs and their relationship:

My biggest problem with Miraculous Ladybug is the Love Square. It is the heart and soul of this show and the one thing it absolutely cannot get wrong.

The writers apparently wanted the dynamic between Marinette and Adrien to be gender swapped Knight and Princess (Dame and Prince if you will), but the problem is... that's not their dynamic?

Ladynoir is the LS ship with the biggest screen time and it does not have that dynamic. Because Chat Noir is the one protecting Ladybug with his body. Chat Noir is the one willing to sacrifice himself for Ladybug. Chat Noir is the one that reassures Ladybug, Chat Noir is the one that sticks with Ladybug through thick and thin, no matter how she treats him. As a result, Chat Noir is the one that feels like Ladybug's protector and knight instead of the other way around.

Adrienette also doesn't fit the bill and the fact that show pretends that it does is frankly laughable. Pray tell, how on earth is a 14 year old baker girl supposed to defend Adrien from his powerful, rich father?

Marichat obviously doesn't work either.

Ladrien however, does provide us with genderbent Knight x Princess dynamic. And it's also the one side of love square were feelings are mutual. Despite this, Ladrien is the least explored LS ship in the show. We don't even get a Ladrien kiss even though all 3 other sides of LS do kiss.

Which is weird. If this show is supposed to be reverse fairytale, why not go with Ladrien? Also, if Gabriel is going to flip the lid over any LS ship it should be Ladrien. The show making Gabriel Adrienette anti and Adrigami stan is really stupid, hilarious and out of left field when he clearly liked Marinette in earlier seasons and had no idea Adrien and Kagami even dated.

And as someone who likes fairytales and Love Square (at least what it could've been, not the travesty we ended up in the show with) I actually like the idea of Marinette being Adrien's knight in shining armour. It actually balances out Adrien constantly sacrificing himself as Chat Noir.

And it could've worked in the show. In the final battle. Without taking away Adrien's agency. Have Adrien show up as Chat Noir in the final battle to help Ladybug (the fact that he doesn't is frankly character assassination. You're telling me that Chat Noir, who has always been by Ladybug's side abandons his partner, his lady, when they're about to face against their number one enemy?! This makes no sense unless you're writing a negative character arc/regression for Adrien.) and have him take a blow meant for her from Hawk Moth, which incapacitates him. Then have Ladybug take his ring, transform into Bug Noire and finish the job by defeating Gabriel. (And No, Gabriel doesn't get to make a wish because that would be him winning. And no, he isn't redeemed either because the show has made it clear that he can't be redeemed at this point)

This actually solves all of show's problems. It makes Bug Noire mean something other than Marinette's cool power up. Now Bug Noire is a symbol of Marinette and Adrien's love, it's Ladybug protecting her partner from their shared enemy by combining both of their powers. It makes Marinette the hero in Adrien's story. It answers the question of: Why is Marinette the main character in Agreste arc? Answer: She's here to rescue Adrien from his abuser. This actually has Marinette and Adrien's love save the day. "The power of love always so strong" indeed.

But the canon instead has Adrien locked in a padded cell and any and all agency taken away while Marinette gets defeated by Gabriel due to her lowering her guard and trusting him when she shouldn't. Finale has Gabriel defeat Marinette and Adrien in the most humiliating way possible, at their lowest. I legitimately can't come up with a more depressing way to write Marinette and Adrien's character arcs. How does making Adrien a spineless doormat and Marinette borderline villain help anything? Season 5 finale can only work as a tragedy, because it has Ladybug and Chat Noir utterly fail as heroes, but the show pretends that nothing's wrong.

And then the show has Marinette/Ladybug straight up betraying both alter egos of Adrichat: Adrien by lying to him, by painting his abuser as a hero, by making him live with his abuser's accomplice without his full knowledge, by not telling him that he's not human but a sentimonster; Chat Noir by also lying to him about their common enemy, the man he killed, even though season 4 finale was supposed to teach her to trust and rely on her partner.

Marinette didn't rescue Adrien. She sided with his abusers. Can you imagine a fairytale knight siding with a wicked witch about the princess?

Writers could've written LS as a healthy ship where Maribug and Adrichat support and uplift each other, instead they accidentally wrote a story about a broken 14 year boy, used, abused and discarded, constantly having his autonomy, agency, freedom taken away, constantly deceived by people who are supposed to love and care for him, only to have his partner, his girlfriend, the love of his life, his other half act like his abusive father and enact said abusive father's will over him instead of freeing him, but she's all he's got, so he clings to her.

Only satisfying way to resolve this conflict is to have Adrichat confront Maribug But I seriously doubt that show would do a good job of it. Plus the fact that we even need to root for Adrien to go against Marinette instead of rooting for them to stay together means that the show already messed up. Marinette and Adrien's relationship is the foundation of MLB, if that's broken, then nothing else matters.

MLB writers have accidentally written LS as a messed up dark romance. Marinette is a stalker, Adrien can't take no for an answer, they're both incredibly possessive, Maribug acts as a control freak over both of Adrichat's identities, she expects him to cater to her every need, to be perfect for her, to validate her whenever necessary. She is his owner, Adrien is hers, Chat Noir is also hers. Meanwhile Adrichat acts as a perfect boyfriend/partner, fawning over her, who knows not to question her. The show has already shown that Chat Noir will mold himself into anything Ladybug wants. Chat Noir also has some... questionable qualities... mainly his murderous and self-harming tendencies. The show has also told us that Adrien can't find out the truth or else he'll get akumatized and blow up the entire world, including Marinette. And this is not even mentioning all the uncomfortable Gabriel x Emilie parallels.

The thing is, I do find Marinette and Adrien's messed up dynamic interesting to explore, I'll even admit that even when they're this toxic they still have amazing chemistry together, but this does not change the fact that this kind of relationship is absolutely not appropriate to depict in a kid's show of all places.

[sophieabigail2021]

Why are we still keeping secrets from Adrien when his dad is doing THIS SHIT???? 🙃🙃🙃

[pythagoras180]

I think the fan reaction to "Werepapas", specifically that scene with the broken rings, proves that Adrien's fans don't actually see him as a person, just an object or Marinette's accessory.

I don't like Adrien at all. I've made that very clear. But when I saw that scene, I was still overcome with sympathy for him. I found it so utterly disgusting that his romantic partner was willing to kill him to defeat an enemy. She didn't call for backup, she didn't try every other option first, and she wasn't even sure she could bring him back (see "Ladybug"), but she gambled with his life anyway. This scene made me feel so bad for Adrien that I temporarily forgot how much I dislike him, and I just wanted to see him get as far away from Marinette as possible.

Yet it seems like all the actual fans of the show, even of Adrien specifically, didn't feel that same way. They didn't think there was anything wrong with what Ladybug did. And maybe this is because some of them blindly accept whatever the show feeds them, and since the show doesn't portray what she did as wrong, they don't see it as wrong. But I also think the fact that they weren't disgusted on Adrien's behalf proves that they simply don't care about Adrien as a person, just as an accessory to Marinette.