#Meta Monday

[fanlore-wiki]

Meta Monday: Your favorite fic author is probably over 30.

In 2017, Tumblr user Xochiquetzl posted an essay in response to discourse about adults in fandom, discussing ageism in fandom and explaining why “your favourite fic author is probably over 30”.

The essay seemed to strike a chord with fans and inspired many to share their own positive stories about their experiences with older fans and the fanworks they created.

Are you curious about this essay? Read more on Fanlore!

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We value every contribution to our shared fandom history. If you’re new to editing Fanlore or wikis in general, visit our New Visitor Portal to get started or ask us questions here!

[justadram]

what would be the difference between modern American purity culture and medievalism culture in asoiaf?

GRRM writes Westeros as a harsher place in some regards than his supposed inspiration. My Meta Monday posts were almost exclusively dedicated to that. Which probably reflects his own American assumptions about past societies or the lens through which he views them. My students make these assumptions. They say it's always been that way, when really, they're describing middle-class Victorian culture and its legacy. And considering the Victorians were the first to be fixated on the Middle Ages and reframed it to reflect their own beliefs, it's no wonder GRRM has distorted ideas.

But medieval society is worlds away from American purity culture. One is medieval Catholic, and one is profoundly shaped by puritanical values currently tied to Evangelicalism. Courtly love is a product of medieval Catholicism (clerics invented it!). Whereas, purity balls are a product of American purity culture (barf).

Demography demonstrates that medieval young adults were not pure. Secular records show lenience toward premarital sex. If you study marriage and birth records, you'll find that it was very common for the first birth to occur less than 9 months after the marriage. People were conceiving before marriage.

Purity culture is also uncomfortable with sexuality and with young people having knowledge of sexuality. That's a concept that doesn't emerge until the 19th c. Previously, including in the Middle Ages, people were no more uncomfortable with sex than they were with defecation. All bodily functions were public. Young people were intimately familiar with sex before having it. And if they were getting pregnant before marriage, it was happening right under people's noses. There were no cars, no widely spread out suburbs, no parents off at work, no privacy, as people typically all slept in the same room or even bed. They lived and worked together as a unit in pretty limited circles. People had to know hanky panky was going on! Even more so than a modern parent might have suspicions about their teen.

Theologians were concerned with the right kind of sex. They were a bunch of celibate men, so it's not shocking that they're preoccupied with when you were allowed to have sex. Those writers aren't the best barometer for what people were truly worried about.

Medieval sermon writers, however, can be a better gauge. They preached about problems they perceived in the community and had a better sense of how to pitch a message to that community. While I haven't made a formal study of it, you'll find a lot of emphasis on internal rather than external purity in sermons. And there was no more emphasis on lust than there was on greed (a real medieval no-no, which runs counter to the prosperity gospel) and anger.

In a world where regularly performing penance is a key feature in defining who is Christian, the goal isn't to be perfect--that's impossible. The goal is to do penance to atone. You need the Church, you need the priest, as the intercessor, so you can achieve spiritual salvation, and those priests are expected to know more and do better than you, a mere layman.

You could sin, including the sin of fornication, and repent and be clean. What does repent mean? In my experience with penance books, anyone with wealth could be asked to give alms. Those without could fast or say a set number of prayers. Really substantial sins committed by someone who should have known better could require a local pilgrimage. Not the Puritanical Hester Prynne treatment.

But being obsessed with premarital kissing or men and women being alone together or whatever it is that keeps Mike Pence up at night, is more of a modern obsession than medieval.

[greenthena]

Why then was this forbid? Why but to keep ye low and ignorant

(If evil, why tasty?)

In the Garden (the one in Eden, not in Tadfield or Berkeley Square), Aziraphale is tasked with protecting the Tree of Knowledge. He is, as he says, "On apple tree duty," that day when Crawly suggests to Eve that the fruit might be extra delicious, and worth a rather significant gamble.

And about that fruit...what was it that was so corrupting to humanity that they had to be cast from paradise after consuming it? Aha! You just fell victim to one of the classic blunders. You thought I was here to argue theology. Even I'm not that much of a masochist. What I will say is this, the fruit gave them knowledge--specifically, the knowledge of Good and Evil--which made them like God. In Paradise Lost, where (let's be honest) Western Christians get most of their context for the Fall of Man, Milton describes humankind's experience prior to that Original Sin as being fully Good. Good (as defined by the Almighty) is available to Adam and Eve from their conception. But Evil can only be known by disobeying God...by eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge. And, oh, does does that Wily Old Serpent entice Eve to eat the fruit. The Serpent's temptation is a hefty stanza, but my most particular favorite part is this,

Why then was this forbid? Why but to awe, Why but to keep ye low and ignorant, His worshippers; he knows that in the day Ye Eate thereof, your Eyes that seem so cleere, Yet are but dim, shall perfetly be then Op'nd and cleerd, and ye shall be as Gods, Knowing both Good and Evil as they know.

(Milton, Book 9, lines 703-709.)

Ah, Crawly, you did such a good job. "Get up there and make some trouble." And you certainly did.

So knowing, knowledge...theologically these are heavy themes in the Eden narrative. Once Eve and Adam partake of the fruit (oh, spoiler alert...sorry...yah, they eat the apple) their eyes are opened and they realize that they are naked and everything changes. They're exiled from paradise, never to return to the sanctuary of creation's womb.

Remember what Aziraphale was doing that day? Well, what he was supposed to be doing, anyhow... Guarding the Tree, yes? Guardian of the Eastern Gate of Eden, but also Steward of the Tree. Keeper of the Knowledge. Hold that thought; I'm going to need you to come back to it in a bit.

Crawly...well, Crowley and Aziraphale spend the next six millennia on earth addressing the assignments given by their respective Head Offices and eventually forming their Arrangement. And through this time, Crowley introduces Aziraphale to a vast array of different types of knowledge: the knowledge of what food tastes like in the definitely-not-a-temptation form of ox ribs; the knowledge of what wine does to an angel's corporation; the knowledge that he has more free will than he realizes and can lie directly to Heavens' Supreme Archangel; and, perhaps most impactfully, the knowledge that he has a friend hereditary enemy who will keep his secrets safe.

As Aziraphale experiences existence on earth, he accumulates volumes of knowledge that other angels will never have, and even begins to collect this knowledge for himself in the most human way imaginable.

He acquires books. Little storehouses of knowledge in which people express their ideas, ask questions, and perform humanity in a way that is really only possible because Eve took the apple and defied her Maker. If they'd stayed in the Garden, there would be no questions, no new ideas, no sushi restaurants, and no dusty little bookshops where angels keep their precious hoards of human knowledge.

Remember that little thought I asked you to hold onto oh, say two paragraphs ago? Here's where it fits. A.Z. Fell & Co. is the New Eden. It's a safe haven containing a vast store of knowledge guarded by the angel of the Eastern Gate. Even the physical design of the bookshop mimics the walls of the Garden.

Just as in the original Eden, where the angel gave the demon the shelter of his wing, the bookshop provides a true home for Crowley (especially in S2, when we see him consistently remove his sunglasses upon entering the shop as an act of vulnerability.)

And like God in Her Garden, Aziraphale is covetous of his Knowledge, refusing to sell his books just as the Almighty denied the breeding pair of humans access to the fruit.

(Also, I literally asked God, and She said that Aziraphale will get mad if you try to eat his books.)

[kakairu-rocks]

Hey, all! We hope you’ve had a great month! It’s that time again, where we do a Meta Monday or Naruto Poll; and this time, we’re getting Meta!

Our last one was about mundane things that Kakashi & Iruka are passionate about; and in the time that has passed since then, we also opened a new Naruto poll about who would travel the most, for leisure!

But now it’s Kakashi & Iruka discussion time; and this time, we want to know:

Who is the handiest man?

Does Kakashi’s genius mind mean he naturally finds it easier to fix the plumbing, or hook up some lighting? Or does Iruka’s history of pranks, and (assumedly) being hands on with them mean he knows more tricks to the trade? Perhaps they both have equal experience, from helping build up their fallen village, Kakashi doing countless building/handyman D Rank missions with Team Seven, and Iruka throwing together flatpacks for the academy?

Or maybe they’re both just as handy as each other, but in different ways?

What do you think? Let us know in this thread!

If you want to read other Meta Monday discussions, check out our other posts here, or make your own post if there is a certain meta topic you want to discuss!

We look forward to chatting with you on the forum!

[saintmichale]

What's happening on instagram?

So basically Meta has announced that on June 26th, they’re going to start allowing ai software to begin sweeping over their apps to begin training those programs. In European countries, instagram users were given a choice to opt out and not allow meta to use their accounts to train AI, but so far American users do not have an option to say they own the copyright of whatever content they post to instagram.

Because of this, a lot of artists specifically are very worried that their art is going to be stolen and used to train AI without their consent. Many people are trying to fight this by posting on their pages saying they own the copyright and do not consent, but there’s no guarantee that meta will honor that declaration.

On Monday there’s going to be a boycott, asking meta to discontinue this program. Many Instagram users are moving over to the anti AI app Cara in an attempt to avoid being stolen from by AI.

[youarestellarverse]

next gen OC dump pt 1: jercabeth

Twins, born on Valentine's Day 2024: Quincy David Karthikeya Chase-Jackson was born first, and looks strikingly like his auntie Thalia (or Doda Yaya, as they call her)— he has her dark curls and her aquiline nose, and in some lights the grey eyes he got from his Amma look just like Thalia's deep gray-blue. Bonnie Esther Bhavisha Chase-Jackson looks like her Baba (Jason/Ruby)— fine platinum blonde angel curls and huge blue doll eyes, much less able to tan than her brother.

Quincy is shy, thoughtful, quiet, sensitive, dreamy and sweet, but he also has a ferocious temper when he's pushed. Bonnie is much more gregarious and social and confident, with a much thicker skin; she's intensely protective of her brother's softness.

Melody Shoshana Medhavi Chase-Jackson is two years younger than the twins, born in October, and is one of those clone babies who looks like a carbon copy of one parent (Percy, in this case). She has Daddy's wavy black hair, charming trickster smile and sea green eyes. Both her older siblings are also intensely protective of her (especially Quincy). She tans most easily and deeply out of all her siblings, and one of Quincy's berserk buttons is when people get shitty about that or the fact that they have different biological fathers. She's named for Percy's step-grandma, Paul's mother.

Baby Charlotte is the youngest, a spring baby, and named after Charles Beckendorf. She's less developed than her siblings, other than that she was a (welcome) surprise because Ruby was unaware she was still virile after being on estrogen for 5+ years. They call her Baby Char or Chuckie. She's maybe 4 years younger than Melody, 6 years younger than the twins.

(Annabeth Anvesha Vedashree Chase, with @simha-nakshatra 's advice ilu bb bisou bisou, is Telugu on her mom's side and got all emotional about it when she learned she was going to be a mom, and since she's an INTJ what she does with feelings is try to pour them into something constructive so she can mostly ignore that indigestion feeling that makes her so anxious thus the kids are being raised multiculturally)

this is all a deep deep cut but I like it and I wanted to provide a sign of life ✨️

[consistentsquash]

5 meta recs for monday

the humanity of creators by @danpuff-ao3

A brilliant short essay on parasocial relationships/separating creator and art.

Creation is such a personal, vulnerable experience. Art, music, writing, etcetera. Creation itself is deeply personal, but so is the experience of those creations. It creates a point of connection, in a way. Connection to the creator, connection to other fans. But experiencing these works does not mean you know the creators. You know a piece of them, perhaps, but not the whole of them.

 

Must-know for Japanese fandom: the meaning of "proship" and the concept of "proshippers" in Western fandom by Maromi

Really well-written essay about Maromi's experiences with antis. Especially love the perspective of cultural differences and how folks can use literally anything to harass you if you are making some problematic art. Link is English translation of Maromi's actual essay in Japanese.

Proship-antis (hereafter referred to as "antis") began to claim that the "pro" stood for "problematic," and expanded their scope beyond a specific ship war to instead begin attacking all "proships." As the definition of the word became muddled, the number of young antis increased, especially among teenagers, who would attack people who supported any kind of problematic ship. This has sometimes escalated to bullying, to the point that one might become a target for harassment if they don't prove that they aren't a proshipper, or might be ostracized for not putting "proship DNI" in their profile. It's also used as a tool for racism―asking someone whose primary language isn't English whether or not they are a proshipper, and if they can't prove that they aren't, they may become a target for harassment. (This is what happened to me.)

  Mumbles by eldritcher

A really poignant look at fandom changes esp HP slash fandom changes. Incisive and resonates a lot.

LJ fandom was criticised often for its cult of nice that was a facade hiding all manner of nonsense. There’s truth to that, but what I’ve seen in the days after I find magnitudes more unappealing. The polemics of identities conducted so effectively and continually in modern fandom and fandom-adjacent publication genres is quite extraordinary. It's wicking out voices and stories, and it’s become an exercise in walking on eggshells. New authors, or new to English authors, or authors unfamiliar with or uninterested in Anglosphere cultural discourse, may not be able to do what I could do in the aughts, because of everything they’ll have to fear tripping on. 

  House elf plotline: A Critique of Author Choices by @ashesandhackles

HP meta in 2023??? Trust me! I really liked this meta and definitely recommend reading it even if you don't normally go for meta. It's just an incredible summary + observations of the worldbuilding. Definitely one of the most objective metas I have read in HP. You should actually think about posting it on AO3, @ashesandhackles.

With a character that had this much thought and agency in Chamber of Secrets specifically because of what it meant for house elves as a whole (and one whose presence made Hermione excited in GOF and hope that other house elves look at his example), one must ask ourselves: why?

  cringe by lierdumoa

The Revenge of the Pearl Clutchers That's what "cringing" is. It's pearl clutching. When the pearl clutchers turned cringe into an adjective, they turned a reaction into an accusation. The pearl clutchers don't want to take responsibility for their own kneejerk emotions. They want to blame YOU.

I feel like there's a lot of folks who are trying to reclaim cringe. But some newer folks are kind of missing the history context behind a lot of fandom vocabulary like this.

[melancholic-pigeon]

man, it's rough when you love a character and you love the arc they have but virtually everyone else you've come across who loves the same character hates their arc with a seething passion

and I get why people hate it but like... I like it. I think it's a good choice. I think it follows with his character development, it makes sense within the greater narrative, and it fulfills his potential in a beautiful, aching, poignant way. It hurts, but it feels like it's supposed to. I like it and I think it's good and it made me love Blorbo more. Honestly, since rereading...I see hints to how this arc would end from the very beginning of his introduction.

Just feels bad when everyone is harshly, viciously criticizing one of your favorite arcs because they hate the parts you liked best.

[sparkirby514]

What?! You’ve never heard of the glorious META NIGHT MONDAY?!

[slippinmickeys]

I still think about how in Monday, the day kept resetting because Scully is immortal. As soon as she didn’t die, the world kept moving.

[fanlore-wiki]

Meta Monday: Some of Us Really Do Watch for the Plot

This Meta Monday we are taking a look at the anthology Some of Us Really Do Watch for the Plot. This is a collection from 2007 of meta essays about the show Supernatural that span 333 pages and more than 40 essays.

It explores the dynamics of the Winchester family, with insights into Sam and Dean's psychology and emotional lives, as well as some of the supporting characters. Some essays also examine the show’s themes of free will and faith.

If you’re a fan or just curious to learn more about the fandom, this anthology is worth checking out!

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We value every contribution to our shared fandom history. If you’re new to editing Fanlore or wikis in general, visit our New Visitor Portal to get started or ask us questions here!

[ladystoneboobs]

obviously yes, the only hypothetical chance for a truly faithful asoiaf adaptation would be animated, but there is at least one scenario where live-action could achieve something animated asoiaf media could not. see, in my fantasy of a fuller, faithful live action adaptation, all 3 kettleblack knights would be played by the same actor using a fake beard, fake mustache, and fake facial scars as needed, which would feel different to one voice actor doing all 3 as that kind of multi-casting is common enough in cartoons. and i don't even mean using the parent trap/buffay sisters on friends-style camera trickery for one actor playing twins, i mean just never having more than one kettleblack in a scene at the same time as one small deviation from the text. eventually the audience starts to wonder if there's even more than 1 guy in-universe either or if oz kettleblack is not only doubling his pay by accepting coin from both cersei and tyrion but actually sextupling it by getting paid triple from both lannisters just for one dude's incompetentcy. then when cersei confesses to the high sparrow that she bedded all 3 it could be due to her own confusion over which was which making her unable to tell who had sex with her when he had fake scars and remains of a fake beard once after a quick switch. and we the audience would know it really is best to name all 3 bc it is one guy answering to osfryd, osmund, and osney so that it's impossible to know which first name (if any) is the true name.

[kakairu-rocks]

Hey, all! We hope you’ve had a great month! It’s that time again, where we do a Meta Monday or Naruto Poll; and this time, we’re getting Meta!

Our last one was about whether Kakashi or Iruka believe in ghosts; and in the time that has passed since then, we also opened a new Naruto poll about who would camp out or stay up for an amazing Black Friday deal!

But now it’s Kakashi & Iruka discussion time; and we want to know:

How would Kakashi & Iruka spend Thanksgiving?

Would Kakashi & Iruka have a private celebration together? Do they host a gathering, and go all out on the food? Or would they accept an invitation to a friend’s place, and go to a potluck? Maybe they choose not to celebrate at all?

What do you think? Tell us in this thread!

[girlbogg]

I find it interesting that Ganondorf is this kind of campy, hyper-masculine figure whose gender identity could only have formed in the context of being raised entirely by women. It lends a "drag" sensibility to traits that would be unremarkable in any other evil overlord type guy.

Like... You're told from birth that you are The One Man, The King. You are Special, and Different from everyone around you in ways that don't make much sense at first. But over time you learn what it means to be Man and King (at least in the eyes of your fellow Gerudo), and you learn the gendered signifiers that announce it to the world. And because you are Ganondorf and you have to be the best at everything, you dedicate yourself to being the Most Man and Most King That Anyone Ever Was. Whether or not this is authentic to who you are as a person... Who cares! Gender's a game and you're winning, baby!

[submersero]

just saw someone on twt to point this out the shelves fall down because of the shockwave, from the blow against the wall that's going on the other side guys i can't do this

Daniel is not being attacked, there's a fight/assault happening in the other room, and it's not necessarily loumand though

[galacticnovie]

i wonder why