#Virgin Discourse apparently

[highinhardtown]

My biggest problem with anti Virgin Bob discourse is that y'all apparently think Adults can't be virgins and that only children can be Virgins and that being a Virgin means you're basically being treated like a toddler and that's just fucked in so many ways to me. I get that it is EXTREMELY likely he's fucked around but let people write virgin Bob without accusing them of infantilism.

[femsolid]

First of all, if you want to talk about Nuns, do so with respect, since intelligence is clearly not all there for you. Your ignorant speech clearly reflects you know nothing of Catholicism, Christ, or the Virgin Mary, yet you speak so confidently when you are so ignorant and have never been part of the religion as a whole, yet such confident statements betray ignorance of the faith, its history, and profound role Nuns have played in shaping culture and society. You have no understanding, no knowledge of its history, and consequently, no knowledge of Nun history or the way they have shaped history and culture. You lack insight into their contributions and the broader context of the religion. Keep your beliefs, but don’t pretend to know or understand something you clearly don’t, refrain from speaking on matters you don’t understand or have any knowledge of, and have some goddamn respect. I can guarantee they possess greater worth, more intelligence, impact, and have done more for this world than you will ever have or seem to grasp. Avoid the arrogance of assuming you know everything and can speak of it so freely, as this kind of arrogance — often seen in those who view the world through a narrow, self-centered lens like you stupid Americans who can only think of yourselves and your braindead, laughable example of knowledge of anything in the world — diminishes meaningful discourse. Stupid, ignorant buffoon, thinking the world revolves around her and her perpetual ignorance.

Must be that good old Christian humility, mercy and grace that motivated this stunning and divine prose.

I was complimenting the nuns I met on their dedication to celibacy and sisterhood actually. And I thought they were kind. I just said that it was meaningless in terms of feminism because they idolized male figures (real and fictional) and were agents of a patriarchal religion.

Apparently this makes me a "stupid ignorant buffon." Strange because I'm one of the few people who has actually read the Bible.

I know you lot are not the biggest fans of freedom of speech, what with all the massacres of non believers, but I'm actually going to keep speaking and writing about everything I want, whether you like it or not. It's called living in a democracy instead of a theocracy.

You act all offended like you're owed some reverence for believing in sexist nonsense and persecuting non believers for centuries. And you even have the nerves to insult me as you request respect and silence. Again. The Christian modesty and goodness.

Also, repeating that I don't know what I'm talking about without being able to point out what I said that wasn't true and offering any correction, is not a good look. If you could be more precise I'd be happy to consider your rebutal.

Finally, no I do not respect religions. I never will. Faith is credulity. It's not a respectable way to see the world. And your religion is a hateful and misogynistic death cult. I respect nuns as human beings but I don't respect their beliefs. Christians need to realise you're not above the rest of us. You can't kill us and get away with it anymore. And you can't silence us.

PS: I'm not American at all but nice try. English is not even my first language. Aren't the USA a very religious country anyway? Weird country to blame atheism on.

[chaifootsteps]

So I made the dumb choice of checking in on stan discourse today. Yeah my morbid curiosity got the better of me. Apparently it is now a trend for them to fully and unironically equate not liking Hazbin with fascism. I've see this a number of times at this point. They're doing this by drawing a specious line of reasoning that goes:

You don't like hazbin/helluva boss ---->

You don't like them because of the sex humour ----->

You don't like the sex humour because you're a sex negative virgin loser ----->

You're a sex negative virgin loser because you're a fascist

Wow, thanks for contributing to alarm fatigue and watering down the term while actual fascists are running rampant right now, guys. You're truly helping make the world a safer place with your whackjob equivocating.

Anyways, back to not paying attention to these creeps (until my curiosity gets the better of me again)

[meangan-thee-lesbian]

Gonna start my reintroduction to tumblr politics real softly with this gold star lesbian discourse: WHY IS IT ONLY EVER GOLD STAR LESBOPHOBES WHO BRING UP VIRGINITY IRT GOLD STAR LESBIANS? YOU NEVER SEE GOLD STAR LESBIANS REFERRING TO THEMSELVES AS VIRGINS, IT'S ONLY EVER THESE INSANE ANTI-GOLD STAR FREAKS WHO THINK "VIRGINITY' AND "PURITY CULTURE" IS RELEVANT TO GOLD STAR LESBIANS, BECAUSE THEY APPARENTLY HAVE THIS IDEA RUSTED INTO THEIR HEAD THAT LESBIAN SEX ISN'T REAL SEX, SO GOLD STAR LESBIANS ARE PURE VIRGINS OR WHATEVER TF IN THEIR EYES. ANYWAY I ALWAYS FOUND THAT HELLA FUNNY BECAUSE MY THREE FIGURE LESBIAN BODY COUNT IS DEFINITELY HIGHER THAN ANY OF THESE ACTUAL IRL VIRGINS MAKING POSTS ABOUT GOLD STAR LESBIANS FROM THEIR MUM'S BASEMENT. LIKE HOW MUCH LESBIAN SEX DO I GOTTA HAVE TO GET THE WORD "VIRGIN" OUT THESE LESBOPHOBES MOUTHS IRT TO MY GOLD STAR LESBIAN ASS? BECAUSE IM PREPARED TO HAVE A LOT MORE LESBIAN SEX IF IT'LL MAKE A DIFFERENCE FOR THE CAUSE.

[swallowtail-ageha]

🔥 for melina + messmer

Oooh a big thing that frustrates me is that their kindness is waaaay overplayed by the fandom

Melina is... nice, sure. But also she is aloof and distant, and doesn't really emotionally bond with you (the most she does is to make you fall asleep while she burns herself). She has never striken me as someone who was particularly kind in her dialogue, so i don't really see how "saintly melina" came to be. Also i think she is the second oldest of marika's children, otherwise her knowing how to use marika's super secret left in her birth village incantation really doesn't make sense to me (+ i find kinda boring the possibility of her having never interacted w any of her siblings nor having a bit of culpability in the rise of marika's empire)

For messmer i see people claim he is so kind and... come on. Yeah he set up an infirmary for the jarfolk. Yeah he also napalmed entire cities and wiped out almost an entire civilization children included, and had a torture fortress and literally entombed alive two of his dissident generals. That are not the acts of a very kind man.

I also think that he is the oldest <-apparently this is a thing that causes discourse and does very much resent marika instead of worshipping her every moment of his life

++ re: the both of them radagon isnt their father by virtue of him not even existing as a separate conscious identity from marika when they were born. They were p much virgin births + i find all of the crazyness of scrambling to find their father futile as the narration puts 0 focus on their paternity and their characters are centered on their relationship with *marika*

[nessest]

''Women good, man bad'', and ''Misandrist writing'' are some of the most annoying takes that have come out in the HotD discourse.

It's funny when you consider that most male characters are presented as BETTER than their book counterparts;

Viserys Targaryen, at 18 years old, started to consummate his marriage to his cousin, Aemma Arryn and she was just 13 years old, getting pregnant so young is what caused her poor health later on; Aemma died at just 23 years old, after spending 10 years getting pregnant and having dead babies and miscarriages; She gave birth to Rhaenyra at 15, HOTD's Alicent Hightower married Viserys at 15; Viserys of course, took no note of what early pregnancies did to his 1st wife, so he married his 13-year-old daughter to her brother; (in HOTD, it was Alicent who arranged the match); In Fire and Blood Viserys gave Rhaenyra no choice of husband, even threatened to disinherit her, in HOTD? a whole tour was done for her and she is the one who messed it up; So, yes Viserys is more sympathetic in HOTD than in Fire and Blood, especially when you take his sickness and regret of what he did to Aemma.

Daemon Targaryen, yes he might not have killed his wife in Fire and Blood, but in HOTD the death of Rhea Royce was downplayed and later turned into a joke. Daemon was in Rhaenyra's life since she was a young girl, especially vulnerable with her father's new marriage (she was 9-10) when he groomed her, the scandal between Viserys and Daemon did not happen when Rhaenyra was 18-19 like in HOTD, but when she was just 14 years old. In Fire and Blood, Daemon most likely asked for one of Aegon's sons, but in HOTD? He asked for Aemond, but those 2 goons.. took it upon themselves.

Criston Cole, the poor dornish knight, who meets Rhaenyra when she is 14, is pressured to sleep with her and then feels so much guilt, of course, Rhaenyra denies him, Alicent saves him from suicide and then he is by her side.... but did it happen like this in Fire and Blood? NO. Criston became Rhaenyra's sword shield when she was 8-9 years old and allegedly, before she got married she wanted to give him her virginity, but he spurned her (Mushroom), but the more reliable source here is Eustace, who claims that it was Cole, who went to Rhaenyra and urged her to run away with him and when she denied him? He turned on her.

Aegon Targaryen who in Fire and Blood was groping every maid, who fathered a bastard on his mother's maid and ''won'' a young girl's maidenhead at the Streets of SIlk is not a rapist? /In Fire and Blood, the ''rumour'' about the bastards comes from Mushroom, but in the novel ''The Rogue Prince'' it is presented as a fact); The Aegon we see in HOTD is much, much more sympathetic that the one we see in Fire and Blood.

Aemond Targaryen, who was a bullying victim in HOTD, who was attacked 4 vs 1 (by children in his age range), who regretted killing Luke.... who was also apparently a SA victim, now let's compare it F&B Aemond who pushed a 3-year-old Joff in dragon droppings, who beat Jace, Luke and Joffrey, who started calling them bastards and had Jace attack him WITH NO KNIFE (at only 6 years old)... and Aemond being 10 was beating him bloody, well until his brother didn't take out a knife and slash Aemond in the face; Who killed Luke intentionally and who enjoyed a feast to killing their younger nephew, but of course, it's only the women who are ''sanitized'' and men are presented as ''bad''.

Intresting.

[my-rose-tinted-glasses]

Let's getting something straight. Mew is not a good person because he is/was a virgin. Boston is not a bad person because he sleeps around. Top is not a bad person because he cheated. Ray is not a bad person because he has an addiction. Sand is not a bad person because he stole a recording and gave it to someone else. I'm not mentioning Nick, because apparently he can do no wrong, which is hilarious.

I'm so fed up with this discourse. I'm just so tired of people reducing a character to the worst thing they ever done. It diminishes them.It takes away the well contructed layers. It devalues the work. It lessens the show. The flaws are where the depth is. The richness. It's like some people never seen a complex character on screen before. Or met a complex, flawed, human being. Or been one.

[ghelgheli]

As a leading light in the constellation of “terrorism experts,” Jerrold Post has proposed that terrorists suffer from pathological personalities that emerge from negative childhood experiences and a damaged sense of self. Post argues for two terrorist personality types, depending on the specific quality of those childhood experiences. First, Post suggests, there is the “anarchic-ideologue.” This is the terrorist who has experienced serious family dysfunction and maladjustment, which lead to rebellion against parents, especially against the father. Anarchic-ideologues fight “against the society of their parents . . . an act of dissent against parents loyal to the regime.” Second, there is the terrorist personality type known as the “nationalist-secessionist”—apparently the name indicates “a sense of loyalty to authority and rebellion against external enemies.” During childhood, a terrorist of this personality type experienced a sense of compassion or loyalty toward his or her parents. According to Post, nationalist-secessionists have pathologically failed to differentiate between themselves and the other (parental object). Consequently, they rebel “against society for the hurt done to their parents . . . an act of loyalty to parents damaged by the regime.” Both the anarchic-ideologue and nationalist-secessionist find “comfort in joining a terrorist group of rebels with similar experiences.” The personality defect model views terrorists as suffering from personality defects that result from excessively negative childhood experiences, giving the individual a poor sense of self and a resentment of authority. As Ruby notes, “Its supporters differ in whether they propose one (Kaplan), two (Post and Jones & Fong), or three (Strentz) personality types.”

What all these models and theories aim to show is how an otherwise normal individual becomes a murderous terrorist, and that process time and again is tied to the failure of the normal(ized) psyche. Indeed, an implicit but foundational supposition structures this entire discourse: the very notion of the normal psyche, which is in fact part of the West’s own heterosexual family romance—a narrative space that relies on the normalized, even if perverse, domestic space of desire supposedly common in the West. Terrorism, in this discourse, is a symptom of the deviant psyche, the psyche gone awry, or the failed psyche; the terrorist enters this discourse as an absolute violation. So when Billy Collins (the 2001 poet laureate) asserted on National Public Radio immediately after September 11: “Now the U.S. has lost its virginity,” he was underscoring this fraught relationship between (hetero)sexuality, normality, the nation, and the violations of terrorism.

Not surprisingly, then, coming out of this discourse, we find that another very common way of trying to psychologize the monster-terrorist is by positing a kind of failed heterosexuality. So we hear often the idea that sexually frustrated Muslim men are promised the heavenly reward of sixty, sixty-seven, or sometimes even seventy virgins if they are martyred in jihad. But As‘ad Abu Khalil has argued, “In reality, political—not sexual—frustration constitutes the most important factor in motivating young men, or women, to engage in suicidal violence. The tendency to dwell on the sexual motives of the suicide bombers belittles these sociopolitical causes.” Now of course, that is precisely what terrorism studies intends to do: to reduce complex social, historical, and political dynamics to various psychic causes rooted in childhood family dynamics. As if the Palestinian Intifada or the long, brutal war in Afghanistan can be simply boiled down to bad mothering or sexual frustration! In short, these explanatory models and frameworks function to (1) reduce complex histories of struggle, intervention, and (non)development to Western psychic models rooted in the bourgeois heterosexual family and its dynamics; (2) systematically exclude questions of political economy and the problems of cultural translation; and (3) attempt to master the fear, anxiety, and uncertainty of a form of political dissent by resorting to the banality of a taxonomy.

Monster, Terrorist, Fag: The War on Terrorism and the Production of Docile Patriots, Jasbir K. Puar & Amit Rai, 2002 [muse]

[rise-my-angel]

I just discoverd that the Jace and Jacaela fans are clinically insane. There was one user who was talking about writing a fic where Jace is betrothed to Baela but goes to a prostitute to “get laid” before he gets married so he can be good at sex for Baela. Like why not just have sex with your fellow virgin fiancee instead of cheating on her?

Apparently there's a whole discourse on whether or not Jace is a virgin or not and it's super contentious for either side. Like people get heated about that stuff when like...it really doesn't matter. I just don't know how much of this sort of thing is people engaging with Jace's actual character because a lot of what ive seen and been told about sounds nothing like his character what so ever. It feels more like projecting a completely different personality onto a face they find attractive instead of caring about his actual characterization.

Which is a shame, because he's underdeveloped in the show, fanfic should be a great place to explore that better but it seems who he is in canon doesn't interest a lot of that side of his community.

[inkrupt]

well there goes my drama virginity.

tw: drama discourse (believe me i'm tired of it just as much as you all are), mentioning of ζoophilia.

so, since no one else seems to care enough to point it out: apparently there were some allegations made against one of the author's fanfics on ao3, including one of the characters having unusual genitals. since the person who made that post is a minor and didn’t want to engage in reading smut, most of the proof was just a screenshot with tags attached to the fic, which included 'cloaca sex' and 'dead dove: do not eat' ones. i understand why these tags would make someone uncomfortable. i'm not encouraging anyone less than 18 years old to read explicit content fics, nor do i care about anyone disliking the work, people are allowed to have different opinions. however, i feel the need to clarify one thing, as someone who actually took time to read the fic very thoroughly:

not once there were animal-like genitalia mentioned in this work. not even the word 'cloaca' itself.

the problematic tags have since been removed, this work is far, far from what bestiality is, because the work itself describes a consensual sexual intercourse involving two different species, one of which is a sentient cryptid with completely fictional genitalia. again, i’m not encouraging any minor to read the fic, and if you are underage and don’t believe me (which is totally valid), you can get your adult friends to check it. why do i even bother to write this post? because i keep seeing people mentioning it every now and then and talking about something they don’t seem to fully know about, and i despise any type of possible gatekeeping. it hurts me to see the person who wrote this work suffer from it like this. i won't deny that the author should consider apologizing for adding these tags in the first place, since they kind of were in poor taste (even as jokes) to anyone who has no clue what fic is about and i can get the confusion they may've caused. but also as far as i know the author of this fic even got death threats over this situation, which is inappropriate behavior and there is no excuse for doing something like this. i do not support any type of harassment towards both sides of this conflict. i do not support any type of proshipping, non-con and zoophilia. and i genuinely believe the work doesn't have to do anything with these topics. (i also want to add that i do not give my consent to people that aren't mentioned here screenshotting this post and reposting it to other platforms in any way or form, in order to make fun of it, even as a joke. if you want to correct me or add something, my dms are open.) i probably won’t write anything more about it, i just want this discourse to stop already. i do want to add though that you shouldn’t treat any person's statements as true facts, and instead, check the situation yourself.

first try, then trust. thank you for reading.

[orthodoxydaily]

Icon, Saints&Reading: Saturday, November 4, 2023

october 22_november 4

THE KAZAN ICON OF THE MOST HOLY THEOTOKOS

In commemoration from the deliverance of the Poles ( 1612)

The Commemoration of the Deliverance of Moscow From the Poles by the Kazan Icon was established in gratitude for the deliverance of Moscow and all Russia from the incursion of the Polish in 1612. The end of the sixteenth and beginning of the seventeenth centuries is known in Russian history as “the Time of Troubles.” The country suffered the onslaught of Polish armies, which scoffed at the Orthodox Faith, plundering and burning churches, cities and villages. Through deceit they succeeded in taking Moscow. In response to the appeal of His Holiness Patriarch Hermogenes (May 12), the Russian people rose up in defense of its native land. From Kazan, the wonderworking icon of the Mother of God was sent to the army headed by Prince Demetrius Pozharsky.

Saint Demetrius of Rostov (September 21), in his Discourse on the Day of Appearance of the Icon of the Mother of God at Kazan (July 8), said:

“The Mother of God delivered from misfortune and woe not only the righteous, but also sinners, but which sinners? those who turn themselves to the Heavenly Father like the Prodigal Son, they make lamentation beating their bosom, like the Publican, they weep at the feet of Christ, like the Sinful Woman washing His feet with her tears, and they offer forth confession of Him, like the Thief upon the Cross. It is such sinners whom the All-Pure Mother of God heeds and hastens to aid, delivering them from great misfortunes and woe.”

Knowing that they suffered such misfortunes for their sins, the whole nation and the militia imposed upon themselves a three-day fast. With prayer, they turned to the Lord and His All-Pure Mother for help. The prayer was heard. Saint Sergius of Radonezh appeared to Saint Arsenius (afterwards Bishop of Suzdal) and said that if Moscow were to be saved, then people must pray to the Most Holy Virgin. Emboldened by the news, Russian forces on October 22, 1612 liberated Moscow from the Polish usurpers. A celebration in honor of the Kazan Icon of the Most Holy Theotokos was established in 1649. Even in our day this icon is especially revered by the Russian Orthodox nation.

The Kazan Icon is also commemorated on July 8.

ST MELLON BSISHOP OF ROUEN ( France_circa 310)

The twenty-second of October is the Orthodox feast-day of Saint Mellon, a Romano-Briton of the early fourth century who became the first bishop of Rouen. Little reliable information exists about the life of Saint Mellon, but his cultus is active in both Wales and in France.

According to the hagiographical legend, Mellon [also Mello or Mellonius Probus] was born a pagan in a small village near Cardiff around the year 229, and throughout his youth, he worshipped the old Roman gods. Being a youth of admirably athletic form and pleasing countenance, he was chosen to bear the tribute from his province to Rome in his twenty-eighth year. While in Rome he stopped at the Temple of Mars Ultor to make sacrifices. However, he was met by the strong-willed Pontiff of Rome, the holy martyr Saint Stephen I, as he came down from the Temple. Apparently, this holy Pope had a strong impression on the youth Mellon, because Mellon had a conversion experience and asked to be baptised in the name of the Holy Trinity. This, Saint Stephen did for him, shortly the Pope and twelve others with him were assassinated in the Temple of Mars on the orders of the wicked Emperor Valerian.

Mellon stayed some time afterward in Rome. He sold all that he had and distributed the wealth among the poor. He was then ordained a priest, but was soon sent back to his native Britain. He went on foot. As he was passing through Gaul, he attended the Divine Liturgy at a church along the road. While the Holy Gifts were being presented, he saw behind the altar an angel of the Lord standing on the right hand of the altar. This angel emerged from the altar with a staff in its hands, and held it out to Mellon, saying:

Receive this staff, by which you will govern the people of the city of Rouen. Do not worry that your way is unknown and your work will be hard, for the Lord Jesus Christ will protect you under the shadow of his wings.

Mellon used the staff on his way as a walking-stick, and his feet were much eased by its use. When at last he came to the town of Rouen, which was then called Rotomagus, he was greeted by a throng of people who thirsted to hear the word of life. The new priest began to preach to them, and among them was a young man named Præcordius, who – like Zacchæus – had clambered up a rooftop the better to see and hear Mellon. Poor Præcordius did not watch his footing, sad to say. He fell from his perch; the fall killed him at once. Mellon hastened to the dead youth’s side and prostrated himself, making the Sign of the Cross and invoking the name of the Holy Trinity. The young man revived, and by this wonder many of the people of Rouen who had been heathens hitherto came to believe.

Mellon was afterwards given the honour of a bishopric in Rouen, and he held this position for forty years until his blessed repose in his old age, in the year 311. During his bishopric he was met with wondrous success, having made firm converts of the Gallo-Roman people who lived there, as Alban Butler says:

In the primitive ages, the surprising light of the gospel breaking in at once upon minds before clouded with darkness, men were startled at such great and infinitely important truths, and at the wondrous works and dispensations of the divine mercy, and the incomprehensible mysteries of love.

Saint Mellon was succeeded as Bishop of Rouen by Saint Avitus [or Avitianus], who is numbered among the Church Fathers of the Council of Arles in 314, and his relics were purportedly removed from Rouen to Pontoise (the Cathedral of Saint Malo) in 880 to preserve them from the depredations of the Normans, but they were destroyed in the French Revolution. Holy hierarch Mellon, pray unto Christ our God for the salvation of our souls!

Source: Heavy Anglo-Orthodox

PHILIPPIANS 2:5-11

5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. 9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

LUKE 1:39-49, 56

39 Now Mary arose in those days and went into the hill country with haste, to a city of Judah, 40 and entered the house of Zacharias and greeted Elizabeth. 41 And it happened, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 Then she spoke out with a loud voice and said, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43 But why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For indeed, as soon as the voice of your greeting sounded in my ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy. 45 Blessed is she who believed, for there will be a fulfillment of those things which were told her from the Lord. 46 And Mary said: "My soul magnifies the Lord, 47 And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior. 48 For He has regarded the lowly state of His maidservant; For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed. 49 For He who is mighty has done great things for me, And holy is His name. 56 And Mary remained with her about three months, and returned to her house.

[sunder-the-gold]

Was the original discourse about how "Immaculate Conception" is different from "Virgin Birth"?

Apparently, the Catholic doctrine of "Immaculate Conception" is that Mary couldn't become the mother of Christ unless she was either born without sin or had managed to live a perfectly blameless life.

Which makes no sense to me, because if original sin is something humanity has from birth, then God could just repeat what he did with Mary and have everyone be born without original sin.

And if Mary instead simply lived a perfectly blameless life despite the temptation to sin, then she had proven that humans don't need the Christ to live perfectly blameless lives.

Either interpretation of the theory contradicts the necessity of Jesus' sacrifice. "For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God," writes Paul in Romans 3:23. Not some, not most; all without exception.

All this Immaculate Conception Discourse is reminding me of the time I was talking to a Muslim student at college, and we got on the subject of the Incarnation, and eventually he just asked why God would bother becoming human and living among us anyway, given how disgusting and sinful we are.

And the only answer I had was, "Because God loves us that much."

It's the only answer I'll ever have.

[ritualslaughter]

ohhhhh I think I liked a catholic web weaving at some point, I'm getting the catholic fandom drama now too

[cecebeanie]

Absolutely, but I'm sure you know that sometimes, a creator accidentally includes details like the ones we're talking about here accidentally, because they didn't know about them in the first place, but would have agreed to make them "canon", as you say, if they had known. A famous example is Alice Oseman, who wrote an obviously asexual character before actually knowing what asexuality was, but when that was pointed out realized the character was asexual (and so was she, but that's unrelated to this discourse, I'm not saying anything about the creators). So, what I'm saying is that even if the creator didn't consider Yuuri not being allosexual, they might have developed him like that unintentionally. Since asexuality is still not a well-known topic, it's possible the author will never know about it, but it's a fact that Yuuri IS is very ace-coded.

About the anxiety, I have it too, and I know what a panic attack is, I experience them frequently. I've also studied psychiatry, and I identify the one we witness in the anime as the start of a panic attack. It might not be chronic anxiety maybe (even though I would disagree, as we've been told how Yuuri copes with it), but that's pretty clearly anxiety. So again, maybe it wasn't thought of as that, but the viewers are allowed to recognize patterns in what they're seeing. YOI has been praised repeatedly for its accurate portrayal of anxiety, even if the creator didn't consider it, this is very important.

Also, we're not talking about virginity, we're talking about asexuality.

To be honest, I'm not loving how you say "a 100% pure and innocent asexual virgin with a mental disorder", I'm sure you can see how that can be offensive for an asexual person to hear, the op of the post is clearly not claiming this, nor am I (and I would never talk like this about an asexual person, never.). And if Yuuri was, what would be wrong with that? Despite you apparently using these terms as insults, none of them are.

Anyway, as I said, the point the op is making with this post is that the exploration of the concept of Eros in the anime is not the exploration a person who experiences sexual attraction would do. Because Yuuri literally doesn't know what sexual attraction is. This is not a stretch; this is what the anime says. Yuuri has to resolve to thinking about food to explain to himself the feelings of sexual attraction, that's a very ace thing to do. This is not something someone who knows what that is would do, I'm sorry.

And again, everything you say is valid for an asexual person, because none of that has anything to do with sexual attraction. None of us here is talking about virginity, again. It's not the point of the post, it's not the point of the anime, I don't understand why you keep bringing it up.

If you're interested about it, the op wrote a super interesting post about types of attraction, I have the feeling like you might need to read it.

If you have any doubt that it's only the op and me who see this, look at the reblogs. Look at what the ace people say. We all notice this, because we know this and we recognize it. None of us ever thought about Yuuri being ace or a virgin as a way of diminishing it, and if this is not your intention in using those terms please clarify it, because your response comes off as offensive, to be honest.

On not getting eros

I’ve discussed Yuuri not getting eros multiple times, but I never explained what it actually means because this subject seems to be a sensitive and controversial one either way. Yet, it's also an important one for quite a number of reasons I will come back to later.

And that's why we need to discuss it.

First: What is eros? - a very short trip back in time

YOI explains eros as “sexual love”, matching the Ancient Greek definition as “sensual or passionate love” from which the term “erotic” is derived. Classical philosophers described it as a “madness from the gods” that befalls people at the sight of another person with disastrous results (e.g. the story of Paris and Helena). In YOI, this “madness” equates to “what causes you to lose the ability to make normal decisions”.

(The definition of eros varied a lot over the centuries. Plato defined eros as a general concept of passion that excludes physical attraction and argued that it can be utilised to pursue intellectual interests. Freud insisted that eros is not to be confused with libido, and the Catholic Church’s definition had a huge influence on more modern definitions and not for the better.)

What the ancient Greeks called eros is nowadays known as sexual attraction. Classical philosophers probably didn’t make the distinction towards romantic attraction since the two are often conflated. However, describing eros as a “madness from the gods” points towards a primal instinct that the majority of humans experiences starting from when the body begins to produce sex hormones during puberty.

What this implies for Yuuri

As an adult male of 23, Yuuri is long past puberty. Thus, one would expect him to understand eros on an intuitive level. However, what makes him lose the ability to make normal decisions is not the sight of another human being, not even his celebrity crush parading in front of him like a Greek god—no, it's his favourite food. And there’s only one explanation why that is:

So far, Yuuri has not experienced sexual attraction.

No anxiety disorder, no feelings of inadequacy, no lack of self-esteem, and certainly not an alleged ability to restrain himself can explain this absolute cluelessness about a basic human instinct. It cannot explain why Yuuri is immune to the sight of naked Viktor, i.e. why that doesn't make him want to bent Viktor over the edge of the hot spring and do unspeakable things to him. And this brings us to the critical part of the discussion:

Yuuri is on the asexual spectrum.

Where on that spectrum he could be, I'm going to discuss in a minute.

Yuuri is well aware that at his age the general populace is able to express eros and that by extension, he is excpected to and should be able to express it, too. In his first attempt at tackling eros, he uses his favourite food as a workaround, but if he had no particular food cravings, literally anything he’s passionate about would work, too (it took me ages to figure that out because, personally, I rather roll with Plato than food metaphors). Yuuri keenly feels that katsudon isn’t it, though. He thus changes the protagonist of the story he made up for his SP because he relates to the woman’s situation more than to the playboy, which works fairly well because it reflects his fears about Viktor leaving and his desire to keep Viktor for himself (see also this meta). However, it takes him until episode 6 to find his eros, and this eros is a very possessive and commanding one (see also this this meta). Essentially, episode 6 is about Yuuri learning that he is indeed capable of seducing Viktor with his skating and this ability comes with a certain power that is reflected in his scores. He doesn't magically experience sexual attraction now—what happens here has all the qualities of a kink with dominance/possessiveness, which Viktor seem to like a lot.

That Yuuri is asexual is essential for the plot of Yuri!!! on Ice to work.

Which asexual microlabels are compatible with canon Yuuri?

Aside from a few subtle hints, this is pretty much open to interpretation. The tie-grab in episode 8 and the strong sexual tension in that scene narrows the list down to demisexual, greysexual, or sex-favourable ace.

A demisexual Yuuri would experience sexual attraction once he has formed a close bond with another person or got to know them intimately enough. Before Viktor, Yuuri struggled to form close relationships of any kind; Viktor is the first he wants to form a bond with and whom he lets into his heart. In this context, episode 6 could be interpreted as the very first time Yuuri experiences sexual attraction.

A greysexual Yuuri would be capable of experiencing sexual attraction sometimes and in certain situations, but again, the point when Yuuri perfects eros defines the earliest instant at which he would experience sexual attraction for the first time.

The likeliest interpretation that I found, however, is that Yuuri is a sex-favourable ace. It’s not only the tie-grab in episode 8 that besides its obvious kinkiness oozes a sexual tension that implies that he and Viktor did it (and liked it), but also the lyrics of Stammi Vicino describing viktuuri on a meta level:

Le tue mani, le tue gambe, le mie mani, le mie gambe, i battiti del cuore si fondono tra loro. Your hands, your legs, my hands, my legs and the heartbeats are fusing together.

This line expresses a unification on a physical and on a mental level. It implies a strong physical intimacy that can't be explained by Yuuri and Viktor being together and skating together in the gala alone.

The differences between these microlabels are hidden in the nuances, the rest is up to personal preference/experience. If you want your Yuuri to be canon-compliant, you can't go wrong with either flavour of aceness, including those I didn't discuss because they seem less likely to me. If you came to the conclusion that a sex-repulsed kinky Yuuri would work just as well, my answer to you would be that canon Viktor would be happy with everything his Yuuri is willing to give. If there's a fictional couple who would make a relationship in which one partner in sex-repulsed and the other is allosexual work, it would be viktuuri.

Next some questions I wish someone had explained to me in this context:

Q&A: But why does Yuuri...?

dry-hump Viktor at the Sochi banquet: If the amount of clothes Yuuri wears gives away the timeline of the event, he danced with Viktor before he went off to the pole with Chris. Some of this dancing was quite physically and that can be totally enough to make a sensitive person horny (and Yuuri is very sensitive to touch). Add an unholy amount of alcohol to this and you have Yuuri rubbing his genitals at his idol. (note that libido ≠ sexual attraction)

say that Viktor could impregnate everyone, including him: Being asexual doesn’t deprive you of the ability to identify sexiness in other people and understanding the meaning of “hot”. Viktor demonstrating Eros right in front of Yuuri would instantly put Yuuri into a massive swoon, and while it wouldn't make him horny and want to fuck Viktor, he would be be swept away because of how cool and amazing Viktor is.

hastily turns away when Viktor stretches in front of him in the bath: Well, that's an obvious reaction of discomfort. Not everyone would be happy to stare right at someone else's dick (unless you love dicks, obviously).

On a side note, I find it quite ironic that Morooka calls Yuuri “Japan’s ace skater” in the Blu-ray subs, but aside from the fact that things one character says about another should always be taken with a grain of salt, deriving a character’s sexuality from such wording is as far-fetched as deriving it from colour schemes or characters blushing at one another (and in YOI, they blush like all. the. time.). I have no idea if the YOI creators intended an asexual reading of Yuuri. However, the result is an unambiguously ace-coded Yuuri that is needed for the story of Yuri!!! on Ice to work.

Why this discussion is overdue

Good ace representation: Although it's not officially confirmed, Yuuri is a realistic representation of a queer label that is often overlooked and underrepresented in media.

Educational purposes: There are many harmful misconceptopns surrounding asexuality, and while this post doesn't aim at dispelling them, I hope it will make a little difference.

Spreading awareness: Because there is so little awareness about what it means to be asexual—even inside the queer community—the ace-coding is only obvious for people who have educated themselves on the subject. Unfortunately, this makes Yuuri being prone to mischaracterisation.

Helping people figure themselves out: Asexuality is a concept that is very hard to make sense of when you don't even know that you experience things differently. I've seen posts discussing ace-coded characters and they only confused the hell out of me. I hope that this post will be helpful to other people being unaware of or questioning their aceness.

Last but not least: Not being sexually attracted to people doesn't impact or contradict Yuuri's romantic orientation. I will discuss Yuuri's "top-secret" love life in my next meta.

For further reading about Yuuri and his endeavours to tackle eros, please check out these metas:

How skating to eros despite not getting it showcases Yuuri's extreme bravery (episode 3) [X]:

Yuuri finally finding the definition of eros that works for him (episode 6) [X]

The development of On Love: Eros throughout the series, including the a discussion of the workarounds Yuuri uses: [X]

My special thanks goes to cecebeanie for our countless discussions on the subject and patiently answering even my stupidest questions, for proofreading, and for encouraging me to write this post in the first place 💜💙

If you like my metas, please check out my works on AO3.

[janiedean]

Oh noo, does this mean i, a 22 yr old virgin, can't read smutty jb fanfics? :( damn it tumblr, first i can't read gay fics cuz I'm a straight woman, then i can't ship jb cuz I'm projecting my hot guy desires onto lesbian brienne and thinking she's straight, now i can't read smut? Because virgins don't think about sex? :((( xD

sorry bro we’re basically banned from any fanfic sex quick go check out anais nin and henry miller from the library before the evil librarians find out and take it away from you and ALL THE OTHER VIRGINS IN THE WORLD WHO ONLY THINK ABOUT 100% PURE HANDOLDING-ONLY RELATIONSHIPS AND CANNOT AND ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT TALK ABOUT SEX EVERRRRRRR ;)

[guillermogirl]

i <3 not engaging with fandom and seeing posts that are like “[obviously bad take] is wrong!!!” like. people were saying that? lmao