#and the “puppets” of the iterators are either

[calllynx]

Ancients and Iterators

Text (if you can't read it):

Panel 1: "Not that anyone has asked, but..." Panel 2: "If you were wondering about the scale of iterators in comparison to us ancients," Panel 3: "We call them "puppets"" "As in-" Panel 4: "Hand Puppets."

[unproduciblesmackdown]

Full Tech Day One pic today from kiko laureano (denizen of skid row / ensemble) & video (that's four seconds of "ya never know" playing over the static image) from & ft. marcia milgrom dodge (director / choreographer) double captioning "there might be puppets in this musical ;)" & "Well Shake my hand! Come see LITTLE SHOP OF HORRORS @guthrietheater featuring @actually_will_roland's hand!"

[mewguca]

do you ever think about how moon is one of the few Iterators to ever be "born"? (having her umbilical severed)

I wonder if that was intentional symbolism; Moon has a renewed perspective that gives her (ironically) more hope and vitality for life itself, despite almost dying.

of course, as death and birth are connected like a ring (or maybe a spiral?) I suppose it makes a ton of sense, actually. Something really fun to think about.

God I love rain world.

I wanted to make this some Full Ramble tm but I'm honestly too exhausted / busy from Job rn so this is just a twitter crosspost. but I hope this can spark some meaningful rumination / discussion. ^^

and in case anyone is confused — the umbilical refers to the puppet's wires, not the armature that supports it. I think it was very purposeful that it was called an umbilical specifically.

This symbolizes iterators as unborn, a trait they seem to share with Echoes, who often assume a somewhat fetal position. Echoes also exist in the Interstice instead of as living beings within the material plane who experience death and rebirth. Iterators do not die easily, and so they are not born easily, either. There are some notable differences of course — Echoes are partway towards ascension; if they can let go of what keeps them from moving on, they can experience the final "death" and final "rebirth" — Ascension. The ultimate change and the culmination of one's thread. Iterators, meanwhile, are designed not to ascend (without finding the Solution first). Of course, entropy shall inevitably claim them, and the Void Sea shall inevitably claim their structures as it eats away at the world beneath them.

So, in the end... everything moves on. but there's plenty to talk about before that end, and I do find the imagery of Iterators as unborn to be quite fascinating. I don't think it's mere coincidence that Moon seems to be accepting and at peace with her place in the world while ALSO having her umbilical severed. Again there's a lot to ramble on about with moon being changed so drastically it is a sort of rebirth in itself but I am. tired. Apologies for any poor / confusing wording.

[redfirefox-55]

Alright instead of doing my homework I will attempt to put my thoughts in a coherent order and explain my off the strings AU (which I’ve given the super long name the Picking up the Pieces AU)

Uhhh just wanna warn you that it’s not super well thought out and it’s purely for self indulgent fun and for me to play with character dynamics and personalities and relationships and such- try not to take it too seriously lol

The main story happens decently post Rivulet campaign and well before Saint’s campaign, but the AU really starts wayyy back right before Hunter’s campaign.

Basically No Significant Harassment had just sent Hunter off to deliver his care package to whatever is left of Moon, and he’s left losing his mind since after Pebbles closed access to his and Moon’s area NSH can’t send an overseer to make sure his messenger even arrives at all (feat some stupid doodles I did to go along with it lol)

And in his desperation, a frankly stupid idea pops into his head.

Obviously the very idea of removing a crucial piece of an iterator’s body and expecting it to be able to continue to function and even travel long distances is logistically shaky at best, and even if it did work would essentially lobotomies their intellectual capacity.. but as things were, if NSH had to choose between living out his days as he was, but without Moon, or live as a fractured version of himself with his best friend.. he had to at least see if it was possible.

If it was possible though, it would no doubt take ages to figure out and make all the necessary preparations, ages which NSH was worried Moon didn’t have.. so he decided he needed help. And who better to help him than the person who has already shown they would research radical and dangerous theories about iterator body alterations :)

I do plan on making a little comic of this conversation, but I’m too lazy right now-

At first Suns is absolutely NOT on board with this idea. They already feel like they’ve basically caused the death of two iterators already, they don’t want NSH of all people to be added to that, but NSH is not dissuaded by their words at all and basically tells them that they can either continue to mope about their previous mistakes or continue to work on fixing it, and if they don’t help him he’s still going to do it anyways. So eventually they fold and agree to help. Besides, it would give them a chance to right their wrong and apologize to Pebbles.

A very long time skip later, turns out even with help this project would take years.

(Also if anyone was hoping I would go into detail about how they even make it possible, I am currently not gonna do that. I feel like I’m not clever enough to really come up with a convincing way for an iterator to literally detach a vital part of themselves without triggering a taboo.. and it’s just a self indulgent little fix it story, not meant to be taken too seriously :P)

By the time Suns and Sig finally have everything prepared for their plan, the iterator population is in pretty bad disarray. The equipment to communicate with one another is eroding, and by this point many iterators are completely radio silent, and a few of the older unluckier ones have even begun collapsing.

This does make the choice of detaching your puppet from your structure easier, because it’s clear that only a matter of time and every iterator will just collapse and be left completely alone in the silence of their structure.

NSH decided that he would detach himself first, and walk all the way over to Suns’ structure, then they could both make the trek to Moon.

Before he does that, NSH broadcasted all the files of the project out, just in case anyone is still around to use them..

The journey doesn’t go as smoothly as he would have preferred.. traveling isn’t very easy it turns out since their puppets aren’t meant for standing let alone walking or running (they definitely end up making and using tools to make getting around easier. I plan on explaining their equipment and outfit changes and stuff later-) but he survived and then they both set off to Moon and Pebbles’ area.

Thankfully there aren’t many animals outside of the iterator areas due to how freezing cold the world is, so all they really need to worry about is the terrain and the weather.

Meanwhile the siblings are not doing very well. This is post Rivulet (rip Ruffles though.. unfortunately there are no slugcat companions in this au…), and Pebbles’ structure had just collapsed very recently by the time Suns and Sig make it to their area. The siblings had already made up by this point and were keeping in contact before the collapse.

Moon was planning on sending her overseers out to see what was left of him once the rubble settled a bit, but she was currently mourning her brother and didn’t notice the two rouge iterator puppets making their way through their facility grounds until they reached her chamber

I plan on making a little comic for this too but here’s a cute little thing I made-

(Iterators can’t actually cry but shhh it’s for dramatic effect let me do what I want-)

I just know their reunion is precious. NSH is so thankful that Moon is actually still functional, and working better than he expected even thanks to the rarefaction cell! Best friends reunited after years apart.. She probably thought she was going crazy at first though because how are these two just standing in her chamber-

So at this point NSH’s plan has worked almost perfectly and he has done everything he set out to do. He’s definitely not pointedly ignoring the existence of someone he has been slowly building resentment for over the past however many years. (They have a complicated dynamic which I will definitely get into later..)

Yeah anyway there’s no way Moon and Suns are leaving without Pebbles.

So whether NSH wanted to or not, as soon as Moon got the hang of walking around the three of them headed off to what remained of Pebbles’ structure. Probably the worst place anyone could go honestly, especially with the walking skill level of a toddler.

Somehow miraculously they survived the trip there, they got lucky idk but yay reunion time!

At that point Pebbles had already resigned himself to his fate, sitting in a pile of rubble with his broken chamber around him for eternity. He definitely thought he was losing his mind when the other three suddenly show up..

Anywayy this is the point where I don’t really have too much of a story planned out! The four of them will probably end up traveling a little before setting up a base somewhere as they get used to this new state of existence. I guess a lot of post apocalyptic slice of life stuff? lol if you wanna call it that maybe. Idk! Just a lot of getting used to living together, and getting over past issues. Lots of fix it stuff

It’s a WIP obviously- but this is at least the beginning main plot beats ^ ^

[mumms-the-word]

I can’t get Maelle’s ending out of my head

I know it’s already been discussed to death but like…first off that final image of her is burned into my brain cause it legit freaked me out, that whole ending was so eerie to me

so it surprised me a little see others here and elsewhere online saying they prefer the Maelle ending because everyone has come back to life. But they haven’t. Or, well, not in the way you’d think

Perhaps Lune and Sciel are the same as they were when Maelle first brought them back. Maybe they’re still the original Lune and Sciel, more or less.

But it’s clear Verso isn’t. Gustave and Sophie aren’t. Pierre isn’t. No one else that died or were gommaged are the same, because none of them are her original creations—they’re all recreations of Aline’s creations. They’re all a copy, and imperfect ones at that

Monoco warns us about this when he explains how gestrals return. They can come back to life, but they’re never the same. They lack all the memories of before, they lack all the experience. When Noco comes back, he’s a different Noco. As he grows, he won’t gradually become like the old Noco, he will continue to be a different Noco who is becoming his own unique version

(Granted Noco and Monoco are allegorical fo the family dogs, this idea that when one Noco-the-dog dies you can get another dog and name him Noco but it won’t be the same Noco. But still, narratively, we see this happen with Monoco, and I think it’s meant to be a sign or a hint that it would be the same for others inside the canvas)

Gestrals are used to this, and Monoco finds something beautiful in the fact that the original Noco, who was his mentor, could be reincarnated and have a fresh new beginning and become his ward (the second iteration of Noco, if you will). But he’s clear he mourns both his mentor Noco and his ward Noco when Noco is killed in Old Lumiere, and even after Noco is reincarnated again he mourns.

It isn’t the same Noco.

Maelle only really knew Lune, Sciel, and Gustave well. She also knew Emma, several orphans, and perhaps Sophie semi-well. But well enough to paint them back into existence exactly as they were? I just don’t see it.

And Verso is the clue. While Lune, Sciel, Gustave, Sophie, all of them look happy, there’s a sense of…suspension in her ending while everyone is waiting for Verso to play the piano. The silence is deafening. Verso, now looking a little older, may or may not have all the memories of his 67+ years in the canvas—perhaps he’s an entirely new Verso—but it’s clear he seems all too aware of his circumstances. He hesitates. He seems unwilling to perform, literally and figuratively. It’s not nervousness that stays his hand.

It looks like he’s weighing his options. Play (perform) for Maelle, put on a show…or get up and leave. But does he really have a choice?

Maelle’s smile in that scene seems strained, almost faked, performative. In some shots it almost seems like she’s crying, despite her smile, cause of the sheen on her cheeks. And then we snap to that one shot of her, with the paint dripping down her face, and we know she’s spent too long in the canvas already.

It’s hard to say what that moment means, if it’s just to warn us that Maelle is spending too much time painting everyone back into existence and trying to shape Lumiere into this world that she wants to live in with the others, or if it’s a suggestion that she’s exerting some kind of control over Verso. I don’t think it’s the latter. I don’t think everyone is a mindless puppet around her. But I do think it’s a hint that she might become another obsessed Paintress…and since she’s in the habit of repainting anyone who has been lost…

I don’t know. Maelle doesn’t seem to be in the business of painting original things. She can only copy. If she’s stuck in a cycle where she can only copy things, where she doesn’t go out to explore new places or meet new people or find new inspiration, then she and Lumiere will stagnate inside the canvas.

Either way, it’s a haunting ending. It’s a facade of happiness that is thinly painted over a darker, more desolate reality. You get this very real sense that Maelle will never leave the canvas. And I’ll say it—that’s tragic.

And what about the soul of real Verso? That’s what bothers me the most. He is so tired. He’s the soul fragment of a child who is plagued with nightmares from the Nevrons, who is trying to make sense of this fragmented world of his creation that no longer looks like his creation, and he’s tired.

But Maelle forces him to stay painting anyway. Because without him, there is no canvas. And without a canvas, she can’t have the fabricated world of her own making, where she can hide for what seems like forever.

Yeah. This ending will haunt me for a bit

[yanderes-galore]

Hi!!! May I request Yandere X-Tale!Chara and Yandere X-Tale Frisk sharing a darling?

Thanks!!!

　- 🪷🪼

It may be short but I'll write down some thoughts. I couldn't figure out what to do as the pairing wasn't specified :(

Yandere! X-Tale! Chara + Frisk Sharing a Darling

Pairing: Platonic/Romantic - Sharing

Possible Trigger Warnings: Gender-Neutral Darling, Obsession, Manipulation, Possessive/Protective behavior, Blood, Violence, Fear of loss, Trauma, Dubious companionship/relationship.

I can actually see these two sharing, especially as 'X-Event'.

In fact, these two are more likely to share than fight unless influenced.

Personally, I can see these two continuously getting attached to someone a part of their universe.

The two grow used to you each timeline, despite Gaster's need for perfection.

I imagine they'd get rather attached due to the fact you keep being reset or rewritten.

You could take multiple different roles for them.

A sibling... a friend... something else entirely....

Either way, the two have always remembered you as being close to them.

You're often a source of happiness for them.

The first timeline was obviously the best for everyone involved.

They both met you and were able to live a nice life of their own with you.

In that timeline, you grew up beside the two, all the way to adulthood.

This version of you was favored by them simply because it contained the first you.

They loved you... Still do...

Even when Gaster decided to pull the plug on that particular story.

Each overwrite that's done to their universe... Each timeline... creates a different you.

Both boys can tell each iteration still has your personality except for some changes.

You still feel like you... Even when Gaster manipulates you to hate them.

Frisk is often the more positive one, trying to stay optimistic, even when he knows you'll be torn from him again.

Chara is the more aggressive one.

Chara is the one who acts out the most when he is forced to watch you be overwritten.

You're nothing more than a puppet, a copy of you from another universe no doubt.

The two still view you as theirs... Even if Gaster is simply altering a being who exists somewhere else.

The two clearly feel they aren't meant to be happy.

Their happiness doesn't matter to Gaster, their supposed parent.

Perfection is all that matters... and you are viewed as imperfect.

They try their best to adapt to each timeline, but each time they look at you...

It's painful that you never seem to remember them or all the time you spent together.

Chara no doubt covets the overwrite ability, wanting to make you remember.

Then you can continue being theirs.

The two no doubt still miss and yearn for the companionship they had with you when their Souls are merged.

It's upsetting that you'll no longer remember them as their two separate forms...

But Frisk allows Chara to interact with you through their shared body.

Remember the timelines where they were allowed to create their own worlds? I think it's timeline VIII onwards?

Imagine the two desperate to try and recreate you, despite everything that's happened...

They yearn for the companionship you gave them.

They may even be a bit of a perfectionist themselves when they're known as 'X-Event.'

You need to be like how they remember you... written to be by their side again.

They know this world will be judged too, Gaster is probably either irritated or amused that they're desperate to make you again to keep themselves happy.

Not like he'd understand such a bond.

Any story I write for Xtale ends up tragic, especially if you're from their timeline.

Their bond they have/had with you doesn't matter in the end.

It doesn't matter if you were lovers, friends, or family....

No matter how much Frisk tries to find a peaceful solution... or Chara fights...

You're forever changed, just a puppet to be molded for whoever holds the Overwrite button.

They can create a life with you... even as the X-Event... yet it's all fabricated.

As much as they try to make you real, it won't happen.

No kiss, hug, or cuddle is going to change that.

It's pointless... yet they can't stop being attached to you.

You're the best thing that's happened to them.

Imagine the devastation when Frisk is removed and Chara merges with Sans?

They're alone, with not even your comfort.

However... Chara may still have a chance to have you.

After all... He learns how to get to other universes with help from other beings.

Perhaps in another universe... they'll just take a variation of you...

Maybe even the prime version of you... just to have a connection that feels real.

[spotsupstuff]

What do you think about iterators canonically being Rat sized now? Lil guys.

I mean technically... a.) it's not really The Iterators, it's just their puppets. (we all know that, though, yeah yeah. nerd emoji and all that. i like nerding.) b.) we have canonical Rain World patented rats now, too, and they are smaller than a slugcat (edible too), so rats are smaller than puppets still. c.) it isn't really a new information, either, it's just more clearer and certain (well the height scaling doesn't seem very consistent to me according to the backgrounds. e.g. the fountain in Outer Rim is strangely small, so are the stairs at the murals in Ancient Urban, compared with the table and shelf in the workshop, the pottery and the bed). Outside of the game it has been said before that slugcats are around 3 feet and arguments existed before that these kind of things-

-are ladders and for them to be proportionable to the Ancients, the Ancients would have to be quite a bit bigger than the Iterator puppets. (Alongside the fact that Echoes are probably exactly how big them pals were when they were alive.)

I was aware of that for a few years now. I didn't draw it as such purely 'cuz I just didn't wanna ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯ And about all my drawing stuff has been in an AU that was originally refered to as ,,the Serotonin Take", so..

But genuine thoughts on small puppets: I think it's both funny and makes a lot of sense. I'm pretty sure canonically the only reason for the existence of the puppets is so the Iterators can look good and ,,human" to their citizens through a camera and nobody actually ever visited the puppet chambers except maybe technicians once in a hundred years or something. Essentially biorobo mascots.

They don't need to be big or overly complicated outside of emotative capability (eyes + antennas, shoulders, maybe hands and head movement) to serve their purpose.

My only issue with them is that I'm a transformers fan and I like big robots.

Genuine thought going thru my head while in Ancient Urban 'cuz I was actively thinking about slugcats = puppet sizes:

[failed-inspection]

Another Spearmaster detail I wished was talked about or explored more because In all honesty, it makes feel So Normal /pos, is the fact in some of their sleep screens, they draw an iterator with a frown or themself with a smile

While these are both very small details, it does open up some very interesting implications

1: The fact that Spearmaster is intelligent enough to understand that frowning/smiling could represent different emotions, and draws themself/the iterators frowning/smiling despite neither of them having a mouth, alongside most likely never seeing a creature with an ability to smile/frown

2: The fact this heavily implies that they knew at least one of the iterators they were familiar with was unhappy, the iterator drawn here is most likely either Suns or Pebbles as well since those would the the iterators they were most familiar with... (I'm personally leaning on the former, since Suns is the iterator who's puppet they would have most likely seen the most, since they only did visit Pebbles once before their second mission... I wonder if that means they noticed how upset/distraught Suns was before they sent them out on their second delivery...)

That's not even mentioning some of the other drawings they do, which have different, but in all honesty equally interesting implications, such as how they draw a rot cyst in one of their sleep screens

This is probably me overthinking things, but, the best way I can explain how I feel about it knowing what rot is... It makes me sad in the same way a bird imitating the sound of a chainsaw would, they don't know that this thing, this monster, was brought into existence by the first message they delivered, the message they were made to deliver

[kelocitta]

i have this piece as my wallpaper and lookin at it i noticed some graffiti in the bg, one of which seems to be the arm of an iterator puppet. i wonder if this is another thing like your msc piece where the bg is also a cool lil drawing

Its a bit of a graffiti of a (very stylized) salamander! You can actually see it unobstructed in the inner sleeve of the vinyl, but it wasn't really originally planned to be its own thing so the graffiti isnt very fancy/clean and was more made to give the wall a little bit of decor rather than just being plain. That call was actually made pretty last minute, so I probably would have made it a little bit nicer if I had known sooner! I just wanted a bit of wall decor and thought the salamander would be a cool pick since they aren't 'true' lizards. I don't have the version used (hence why its not on the wiki either) but the salamander is stylized more like an eelizard, funnily enough

In the case of the second vinyl, we knew we were gonna use the background from the final, so it was planned for it.

[monbons]

Stitches and Sentences Roundup 2024

Thanks for the tags on your writing round ups @run-for-chamo-miles, @drowninginships, and @emeryhall! I just got back from a weeklong trip and instead of doing laundry, I'm joining in on the roundup fun.

FIC I moved from lurker to active fandom participant this year with a bang. I posted my first fic ever for EGF and have basically been writing or posting non-stop since then. I wrote/co-wrote 5 fics this year and clocked in at 101, 725 words.

Kill Em With Kindness - rated T, 6.5k, Watford-Era, getting together fic

When no one seems to care that Baz is sad, Simon steps in to help. The only reasonable explanation for all Simon's kindness is that he's trying to kill Baz, right? (My most popular fic as measured by kudos.)

Knock Your Socks Off - rated T, 4k, Watford-Era, 7th year fic

Baz steals Simon's socks. Simon blames the sock monster. Chaos ensues.

The Eternal Life of Baz Pitch - rated M, 42k, Addie LaRue AU, a truly epic romance

Told in two alternating timelines that span from 1700s Hampshire all the way to early 2000's Washington, DC, this fic follows Baz as he spends centuries searching for the love of all his lives. (This was the fic that convinced me I could write long and holds a very special place in my heart. Is it angsty? Yes. Is it some of the most beautiful prose I've ever written? Also yes.)

The Boy Next Door - rated M, 47k, and they were neighbors AU, a coming of age romance

When Simon moves in with his gran, he decides to befriend the mysterious boy next door. He changes both their lives in the process. (My most popular fic by literally every other measure.)

The Reason for The Season - rated T, 1.6k, text fic, co-written with @thewholelemon

Dev and Niall make a list. Holiday hijinks abound. (A bday gift for @mooncello)

ART I do not currently have a great way to track my dolls and searched my Instagram to do the math, only to realize I hadn't posted every doll I made either! (If anyone has a good art tracking system, I'm open to ideas.) If my count is correct, I clocked in at a grand total of 35 dolls this year, including:

10 Simons

15 Bazzes

2 Pennys

2 Nialls

2 Devs

1 Mage

1 Fiona

1 Agatha

1 Shep

The picture below shows my earliest dolls, where I was still experimenting with style and form. As you can see, many of them are quite flat. (Fun fact: All of these dolls--including their clothing--were made before I owned a sewing machine.)

Going 3D was actually an accident, but we have the Watford Baz and Simon below to thank for it! After committing to 3D dolls, I kept evolving my pattern---improving joints, proportions, and adding details like ears!---until we reached my most current iterations.

Now every doll has their own special pattern that takes into account their canon proportions, where available. Notice Baz is tall and slender where Simon is extra fluffy!

I did not include any of the dolls I created for COC 2024 since I assume everyone has seen them already, but I linked the master post in case you missed a day.

Finally, in addition to dolls, I also created 2 plushies (a merwolf and a bunbaz) plus 12 finger puppets this year.

It's hard to quantify dolls like fics, especially since almost every doll before COC did not have a dedicated tumblr post. However, here are some fun art stats:

Most Popular Art Post: The Watford Map

Most Popular Doll: FIONA!

Second Most Popular Doll: Felt Smut (Look @emeryhall! Dragonboy Simon is indeed the sexiest given that this is my duplicate of your doll!)

I also had three art collaborations this year:

Baz and The Prophecy - Doll and Tapestry, a COTTA collaboration with @iamamythologicalcreature

Ballet Baz and Disco Simon - a CORB collaboration with @melodysmash (Read the fic she wrote--Body Language. It is as adorable as these dolls!)

Watford Advent Map - a tapestry made for COC 2024 with help from @rimeswithpurple

While it has definitely been a fabulously productive year, I think my greatest achievement has been all the new friendships I've fostered because of fandom. Y'all bring me so much joy, and I am so happy I found this little corner of the internet.

I am currently drained of all creative energy (I can't imagine why!), so you may not hear from me for a while. However, I promise I am still around---likely catching up on all the fic and art I've missed while being a literal word and doll factory. With all that said, if you have an idea and wanna collab in the new year, I'm all ears and tons of fun!

Hellos and high-fives for the last time in 2024! @alexalexinii, @argumentativeantitheticalg, @aristocratic-otter, @arthurkko, @artsyunderstudy

@best--dress, @blackberrysummerblog, @brilla-brilla-estrellita, @bookish-bogwitch, @confused-bi-queer

@cutestkilla, @emeryhall, @facewithoutheart, @harrie-leithillustration, @hushed-chorus

@ic3que3n, @ileadacharmedlife, @katatsumuli, @larkral, @letraspal

@martsonmars, @messofthejess, @mooncello, @noblecorgi, @orange-peony

@raenestee, @rbkzz, @roomwithanopenfire, @shrekgogurt, @skeedelvee

@stitchyqueer, @supercutedinosaurs, @talentpiper11, @twinkle-twinkle-up-above, @theimpossibledemon

@valeffelees, @whatevertheweather, @you-remind-me-of-the-babe, @youarenevertooold

[eclipsedcrystalstar]

SOTM SPOILERS

Trans Roxy is kinda real (in some sense)

The earliest iteration of Roxy is called by he/him pronouns by Edwin

We can tell this is Roxy because the puppet is used and speaks in the Foxy puppet show

Yet in the same game Roxy is shown in a different form, Deadeye Roxy

This Roxy looks nearly exactly like the SB Roxy (aside from the clothing and lack of makeup) and has prominent lips that doesn’t seem to be seen on male characters (though I can’t find any rips of other cutouts yet)

So the timeline seems to be: Roxy is made as a man in Foxy’s crew Roxy’s character is split off into Deadeye Roxy (Gender unknown, likely a woman) Deadeye Roxy’s design is mixed with Puppet Roxy’s design to create SB Roxy (woman)

So either Edwin or Faz Ent transed her gender

[flickering-nightfall]

Hey, I was just wondering, how would the iterators' puppets leave their cans if they discovered a way? I'm asking because I wanted to maybe have the iterators' puppet leave their can sometimes.

Love your art.

Thank you!

I think that depends on how you interpret the iterators. Some people see them as mostly or totally contained within their puppet, while others see them as the entire superstructure. Rain World has a lot of inconsistencies and a lot is open to interpretation. So either way could work.

If you see the iterators as their puppets, there's a lot of options. A couple of them are:

You can straight up sever their umbilical (wires and arm). But then you have to make sure they don't die in the same cycle. How physically suited are your puppets to walking? How dangerous are their surroundings? Do they need to eat and drink, and if they do, how do they do it? How dependent on their neurons are they, if they need them at all? What are the short term and long term consequences of the severance? Is the severance permanent?

You can make the puppet detachable. Pop 'em right off like a lego piece. The rest of the superstructure could run passively while they're gone. That'd probably work better for you if you just wanted to them to leave the can sometimes.

I see iterators as their entire superstructures, which makes the puppet problem a bit harder. You could:

Make a mobile or detachable puppet with a wireless connection (this could also apply to "iterator-is-puppet" but in the opposite direction). The range is up to you. Could be limited to short range or made longer range through... communication arrays, I guess? Could be pretty funny if the signal gets cut too. Five Pebbles loses connection and ragdolls mid-conversation.

Somehow stuff a being that is several cubic miles large into its finger puppet (what I did, but it comes with several drawbacks, and most of them didn't have a choice)

That last one might be more or less believable depending how much you say the iterator's consciousness is dependent on its superstructure. Can they be contained within the puppet? Human brains are three pounds of flesh. Can you cram a whole superstructure's worth of processing in there? No, but if our personalities can be contained within that, an iterator's probably could too.

So what are the costs? An iterator in a puppet is still a walking calculator person, but it isn't a god anymore, you know? What kind of sacrifices do they have to make? Imperfect and limited memory, vulnerable body, nutrient requirements, slower processing, loss of their powers, dissonance of moving between vastly different bodies… lots of stuff to play with!

[atamascolily]

I was trying to write out my thoughts about Homura and Walpurgisnacht's relationship, but I think what best encapsulates them at the moment is actually an image: the M.C. Escher lithograph Drawing Hands (1948).

Drawing Hands is first and foremost a paradox, with each hand rising out of a two-dimensional world to create the other and no beginning or end. In his book Godel, Escher, Bach: An Essential Golden Braid, Douglas Hofsteader uses it to represent the concept of a strange loop: a system (like consciousness or a musical fugue) that moves through multiple iterations, only to finally return to its starting point.

I first encounter this image juxtaposed with the Jorge Luis Borges micro-story, "Borges and I", which is--among many other things--a doppelganger story dealing with questions of identity and the boundaries between one person and another. The story ends with a confession: "I do not know which of us has written this page." The question that I ask now is, does it even matter? Is it truly either/or, or both/and?

The story of Madoka Magica is ultimately circular in nature. This is true of individual installments (here taking the anime episodes collectively as a unit), and I suspect it will ultimately be true on a collective level as well. I fully expect that the last shot of the final installment--whether Walpurgis no Kaiten or some other sequel--to end with the same imagery we saw in the "Prologue in Heaven" that opens the first episode of the anime. The end is the beginning is the end is the beginning--except that everything has changed as a result of the story that has been told; we now have the fully context to appreciate it for what it was all along.

In the anime, Walpurgisnacht created Homura by showing up in that first timeline and killing Madoka, thus inspiring Homura to make a contract and become a magical girl to save her. Thus it would be narratively fitting if Homura's actions--whether directly or indirectly, intentional or unintentional--lead to the creation of Walpurgisnacht, each of them giving rise to the other in turn.

After all, this is the same relationship between magical girls and witches in general--one creates the other in a never-ending loop, at least until Madoka wishes to change the cycle. Even here, the cycle remains a cycle--as evidenced by the name "Law of Cycles": the nature of the loop changes but not its structure.

The shape created by the hands in Drawing Hands is eerily reminiscent of the twofold tomoe, a Shinto symbol composed of two looping swirls, which itself is similar to the Chinese ying and yang symbol. A similar design appears in both Walpurgisnacht's mandala and Homura's shield--just as they are united in their shared motifs of cogs and gears, they are also linked by their connections to the cycle of creation and destruction.

Drawing Hands is also a good metaphor for Madoka Magica in that it involves transcending two dimensions, just as Madoka Magica's animation incorporates three-dimensional objects on a regular basis. It also suggests at the possibility of a world outside of the narrative presented in the story, that everything we've witnessed on screen is in fact a tale unfolding in-universe as well. It's also an excellent metaphor for Rebellion in particular, which explicitly incorporates Homura's floating hands ("blue-screened" to indicate they are visible only to the audience) actively puppeting the Nightmares and building the "stage" in her labyrinth upon which the entire psychodrama takes place.

Oh, and I'd be lying if Drawing Hands didn't make me think of this shot from the original series, too, although both the position and the underlying symbolism are different:

(something something Madoka's wish to save all magical girls with her own hands something something--look, there's a lot of hand imagery in this show, okay?)

That said, given Homura's salamander/lizard motif, perhaps a different M.C. Escher drawing, Reptiles (1943) will prove to be an equally fitting representation of her journey in the end.

We've already seen the salamander representing the "Dark Orb" move from two to three dimensions (and become a phone!) in the trailer for Walpurgis no Kaiten, so who knows what the movie has in store for us?

[aluminia]

I've wanted to make a post about all the references I put in the Metaxenia comic, since most of them aren't things the average non-Greek would know, so buckle up 'cause I'm doing it now 🧳.

(The comic can be found here in english and here in greek)

First of all, Metaxenia is pretty much what we call all worms-a-string here. My inspo for the comic was this ad, pretty much every Greek person is able to quote it verbatim so I'd go so far as to call it a modern cultural moment lol. The phrase "Metaxenia come out" ("Μεταξένια βγες έξω") is what the entire comic revolves around.

In newer iterations of the commercial (like the above one), Metaxenia has a son called Metaxoulis. That was the only one I straight up changed for the english version, I used the literal translation of the name and ended up with "Silky". Menios' name came because I was like: Metaxenios (Metaxenia masculine version)-> Me-taxe-nios-> Me-nios. Harry just sounds like the word Χέρι (Hand)(it also looks like the word "hand" so that worked out really well lol).

"Fino Bar" is a reference to "Finos Film", a film production company responsible for a lot of iconic movies from 1943 to 1977.

"Melina Theatre", named after the real life "Melina Merkouri Theatre"

I really wanted the comic to feel like a classic black-and-white greek movie, I just thought it would be fun. Hence, I placed it somewhere in post-WW2 Athens and referenced architectural styles and tropes you could spot in those movies. Like the down-on-their-luck main character falling in love with a charming woman (sometimes a musician) way above their league (only the mc is a woman instead of Veggos).

In this scene Sol is singing a part from Erotokritos (I don't know if the whole story is available in english but here's the translated song)(it's not the translation used for the comic though)

Lastly, about the character designs, I limited myself to things that can be found in the actual commercial to base the characters around. Hence, everyone is either a worm, bird puppet, Literally Just A Hand and a bracelet. It's really interesting trying to figure out how to make fuzzy worms look distinct with each other.

Genuinely I had a blast making this comic and I thank everyone who enjoyed it/ was there to listen to my rambles as I worked on it. Peace out ✌

[internetskiff]

I always found this room of Metropolis very interesting because it doesn't have a very discernable function, yet its placement in here feels very deliberate. It seems to have a more direct connection to the Can compared to the rest of the city, since it shares a similar "ecosystem".

Maybe this room's purpose is explained in the Dev Commentary or something, but I've yet to check that out. Personal interpretation though? The fact that it has a Puppet Chamber (either a singular wall from one or an entire chamber with one wall taken out so the inside can be observed) makes me think rooms like these are how Benefactors would interface with the Puppet. I doubt they would go down into a canal just to get directly into the Puppet chamber for a brief consultation, so I think rooms like these would project the Puppet into an imitation of its environment while the townsfolk gathered outside to consult with it. I also have a guess as to what these may look like from the outside. My interpretation is that these spherical constructions are where these types of rooms are kept. These spheres feel very different from city infrastructure and the pole connecting to the ground makes me think they have a direct connection with the Can. I think these might be the buildings where such setups are housed with the Iterator's internal biome being funneled in and out through the bottom cylinder.

Wouldn't be the first time Iterator Cans had spherical extensions for the express purpose of access by other organisms.

I would imagine 5P's Metropolis also contains similar spheres, but they're simply buried under all of the city blocks as a result of the city's rapid expansion. My other guess is that those spheres housed some sort of purposed organism that was specifically designed to be utilized in cities, but that train of thought isn't as fleshed out. Either way, definitely think those spheres were up there even before the cities got built up.

[lopposting]

So, I noticed that people tend to notice P is not human, not from the way he looks, but from the way he sounds.

I can hear your springs even if you try to hide them. We musicians have a keen ear, you know. (White lady)

I hear the sound of springs inside you... You're a puppet too! (The Survivor)

[btw I'm going to be paraphrasing quotes and details from memory so I can get this out rather rapidly, so my apologies if they're somewhat incorrect]

Claudia and Lucio give no indication that they know about P not being human. Up until mid-game, they only really treat him as another stalker to con. The black rabbit brotherhood seem to know, but mainly because they know we're specifically "Geppetto's puppet."

I think that Claudia and Lucio find out because they either hear the brotherhood during the fight or Simon tells them as much, because Lucio calls us a "goddamn talking rag-doll" before he attacks us if you choose to fight.

The Black Rabbit Brotherhood and their connection to Carlo

And speaking of which - the brotherhood seems to know immediately that we are "Geppetto's puppet". Which makes me wonder... they seem to have known Carlo or known of Carlo while he was alive, which is probably how they put two and two together and guessed the obvious conclusion of how we came to be, which is the case with Antonia:

Oh, I knew you were Geppetto's puppet the moment I saw you (Antonia)

Is that Tenma's boy? > It can't be Tenma's boy. Holy cow, Tenma must have lost his mind (From Astro Boy 2009)

They also have Carlo's painting and the gravesite which is guessed to perhaps contain Carlo's empty grave has the mark of the black rabbit brotherhood on it. Geppetto also says he had no idea the BRB had stolen the painting.

A child who was a blessing to their family lies here. May he rest in peace. (Malum grave)

[Also I'm wildin now but korean pronouns are usually non-gender specific, so maybe it wasn't a "he" originally? this throws a whole bunch of other things into question though which I actually really don't like]

So, I thought of ways that ALL of these things could be true: That this IS carlo's grave in the malum district (which is strange because why would an aristocratic son be buried in Malum), the grave is empty because Carlo's body is still in the suitcase, the brb mark on his grave makes sense, AND the BRB having the painting is more than just a coincidence.

I have the most bizarre headcanon now. The BRB are a bunch of awful thugs for issuing "protection fees", but still, what IF:

They seem very hostile to us, particularly because we are a puppet, but maybe also because of our resemblance to Carlo - not because they resented him, but because Carlo was dear to them somehow. And the empty grave in the district was set up by them privately to commemorate his death when they heard what happened, (and the "family" they are referring to are themselves!). It's also worth noting that in the original story, The rabbits are aligned with the blue fairy (which would be Sophia in this iteration). [They're also associated with coffins and graves.]

I had no idea the black rabbit brotherhood had stolen it. (Geppetto on the painting)

The black rabbit brotherhood! I hate these guys. <- Gemini immediately remembers them. [They also appear very early on in the game, I guess to show they were watching us?]

So maybe their resentment and disgust for P comes from the fact that they know Geppetto has made an artificial replica of someone they knew into something they hated (puppets!), which they would see as repulsive. Perhaps there's an actual reason why the BRB has the painting. What exactly went down at the monad charity house?

...

extra notes

[The BRB knowing about Carlo doesn't mean they personally knew Carlo (since Geppetto must've been famous), but it's something. The thing is, both Eugenie and Venigni don't seem to recognize who we're "supposed" to be at all, even Venigni who is said to have been a close colleague to Geppetto. Maybe Eugenie and Venigni are just super polite and don't want to mention Carlo at all to us, but I kinda get the feeling that the public never really knew Carlo existed, Geppetto did dump him off at a boarding school early on after all]

[also also!! the golden stargazer next to the grave for DLC, Carlo being associated with ships, and the DLC showing a nautical theme?]