#both hannibal and lestat are abusers

[variksel]

me when im in a "misunderstanding explicitly stated text of the source material" -contest and my opponent is a 'murder husbands family is nbc hannibals good ending' -er or a 'lestat was his happiest during the vampire family era' -er

[for-hunger]

The differences between Hannibal and Lestat have been bothering me ever since I binged Interview with the Vampire, and I got frustrated enough to scribble 3 pages in my notebook. My conclusions are:

Institutional power. First and foremost, Lestat is connected to institutional power. In the context of IWTV, Lestat and Louis do not begin as equals, and are not able to meet each other as equals until the end of S2. (Edit: I am literally talking about him being white in the Jim Crow South) Lestat is always associated with ultimate institutional/group authority, both in New Orleans and in Paris- whether Lestat came to Paris with the intention to see Claudia (and/or Louis) die or not, he is the literal co-founder of the coven, and Claudia and Louis are being persecuted for fighting back against him. He even invokes the "Great Laws" when defending Claudia's murder.

In contrast, in Hannibal, Will is the one associated with this institutional power, even being the mentee of our ultimate lawful authority, Jack. The only time he is without this power is the brief first period of S2. Hannibal and Will begin the show as equals, and for the most part, are playing their back and forth cat-and-mouse game as equals (at least post-S1).

Betrayal. Although Louis shuts down in the face of Lestat's abuse, he never really stops being hurt by Lestat's continued betrayals. Will is hurt by Hannibal's betrayal (especially end of S1), but he knows who Hannibal is. He expects and is, in many ways, satisfied by and interested in Hannibal's continued insanity.

Daughters. Louis is the driving force behind the adoption of Claudia, and Lestat resists emotional involvement with her, is cruel to her, and, arguably, wants her dead regardless of Louis. Hannibal gives Abigail to Will himself, and has his own relationship with her. His murder of Abigail is in revenge for Will's shattering of their relationship, not about anything he hates in Abigail.

God. Hannibal is more directly godlike in comparison to the others in his narrative. Other people are vampires, but no one else can kill like Hannibal does in his world (in his absurd Bugs Bunny way). He even breaks the fourth wall (in S3) to directly invite us into his narrative. The motivation for most of what he does is curiosity rather than any central seduction (sometimes to his dismay), and his attitude is always tongue in cheek. This is also why it's important that he's not associated with institutional power- he rivals the power of God, he doesn't hide from God, he's the Devil, he is smoke, he is not bound by gender, law, time, space, the limits of the body, etc.

Ultimately, there are tons of similarities in these narratives: toxic ass murder husbands, dead daughters who are created and then sacrificed for the love of the husbands, consummation in blood, breakup in blood, European sojourn, temporary other marriages, murder as ascension, et al et al

and I'm certainly not saying that Hannibal is a good husband!!!

[glitterbiss]

Dude I’m so tired of seeing this shit about the remmick thirst and fanfic…be so for real, ITS A VAMPIRE. HE HAS LAYERS. HES INTERESTING. Outside of being a handsome ass man and an alluring vampire, he is a character that we don’t know much about. We just know that he’s a bad guy, the villian who thinks he’s the hero. I am a black woman. Yes, the mf ain’t shit. He recked havoc and tried to force submission. Yes he used manipulation; when hasn’t a vampire done so to get what they want? Other vampires use compulsion….yall okay with that? I never seen any complaints with them making someone do something against their will….No, it wasn’t okay. However, as Ryan has stated, HE DID SO BECAUSE HE FELT HE RESONATED WITH THEM. Once again, his actions are not justified, but it shows that he wasn’t doing what he was doing with ill intention. He thought he was helping more than hurting, in his own twisted way. That’s what makes him a complex character. That’s what make ppl want to know more about him. His past, his struggle. I’m not saying he’s more important than other characters but it does make you want to dive deeper. We know nothing about him…dangerous, intriguing…just like a vampire is supposed to be. Yall act like this the first time ppl have romanticized the villian. Hannibal was a cannibal, ppl thirst over him. Joe Goldberg, no different. Lestat, abuser, yall let ppl thirst over him. Like can we please understand that we have two sides of our brains and we can use both. We see what the movie is conveying!!!! WE ALSO SEE A NEW HOT VILLAIN THATS LITERALLY A FANTASY! NOT REAL!!! Irl, I wouldn’t even waste my time on a mf like remmick, but baby this ain’t real. He can get it!

I keep seeing ppl claiming “no one let the film digest before they started with the remmick fics.” Yall do realize, when writers get an idea, that shit needs to be written out as soon as they can because it eats away at their thoughts or it get so bad to the point they can’t concentrate on anything? Like damn just let ppl be. If yall don’t feel the same about him, let it be and ignore it. It wasn’t for your consumption clearly. I respect those opinions and I definitely understand them. But it’s tumblr bro, let it be. 🥱

[most-screwed-by-writers-tourney]

Propaganda:

Harrow and Gideon; the power imbalance and pining and inability to communicate and understand each other and oh god the pining they just want to be loved and they're so bad at it

Juri and Shiori: They both love eachother right but shiori is insecure and has comphet and hates juri for being better than her!! It was confirmed in the original dialogue and by the series creator that Shiori does return Juri's feelings, but was antagonistic towards to her because she held Juri in such high regard that when she found out that Juri loved her it made Shiori feel powerful and on more equal ground with Juri than she initially thought, so she tried to maintain that power in the hopes of having Juri to herself

Louis and Lestat: In the original book Lestat literally turns a 5 year old little girl into a vampire to trap Louis in their loveless, abusive relationship, because he knows Louis will worry about Lestat (whom Louis now recognizes as a remorseless monster who sees humans as nothing but food) using this child (Claudia) as a tool and creating the most evil and messed up surrogate child of all time. (He was right, btw, bc she grows into a woman trapped forever in a child's body and hates them both for it. but this isn't about Claudia.)

In the TV series, Lestat is a white devil offering aid, sympathy, and love to a gay, closeted black man in the 1900s. He offers him company, capital, a friend who sees him as an 'equal' Once he turns him into a vampire, his desire to possess and control Louis becomes apparent. He displays TEXTBOOK narcissistic and abusive partner behaviors, apologies for how awful he was, promises to change, makes romantic gestures to try and smooth things over. They start having an 'open relationship' where Lestat loses it over Louis taking advantage of being able to see other people. Lestat writes a love song for him and sends Louis a recording sung by the woman he's having an affair with; Louis confronts him at the singer's apartment and they have angry sex in her bed.

Late in the TV series, they get in another fight, and Lestat literally drops Louis out of the sky and leaves him paralyzed, with Claudia (in this adaptation, a young woman who is more like a sister/mother to Louis) to nurse him back to health and re-teach him how to walk. Louis still takes him back.

In both the book and the TV series, Claudia convinces Louis that the only way they can be free is to kill Lestat. In both, they poison him, slit his throat, and dump his body in a swamp. In the TV version, Louis sobs over Lestat's dead body, refusing to allow Claudia to burn him and ensure he can't come back from it. (Spoilers: he gets better. and he's pissed about it! He follows them to Europe.) Their gay divorce drama eventually results in the destruction of an entire enclave of over 400 vampires in Paris and the death of their surrogate daughter.

[magnuspanoptes]

i have no idea who gwendolyn bouchard is but i support all those posts about her being a jonelias child of divorce or whatever because in honour of hannigram and loustat i think jon and elias should have a teenage daughter (adopted, she came to the institute to give a statement and it turned into a whole thing. and yes, she gets nightmares about the archivist) - with whom one of them has an incomprehensible subtextually incestuous, abusive relationship (hannibal with abigail and lestat with claudia in amc iwtv, so yea okay it's elias who's going to be Weird with the daughter for taking up jon's time) and who tragically ends up dead sometime around her 19th birthday directly due to their actions and this causes a temporary rift between the two of them but not enough for permanent seperation because they're both fundamentally selfish people and for elias at least the daughter was always going to be second to jon because she wasn't going to give him his apocalypse, was she. also before (or directly after) she dies it's slowly revealed that she had unconscious ties to the web and this breaks jon's heart because he really thought there was this one thing of joy in his life that was not marked by the fears.

[redflagtag01]

finalboybyers is heart_byers on Twitter (tw: rape, pedophilia, and abuse).

When they post about Henry and Will, likening them to Father and Mother, Hades and Persephone, Hannibal and Will, Lestat and Louis, Villanelle and Eve, and other romantic fated pairs, they're trying to semi-subtly get more people on the Henwill train.

Don't believe me? Take it from Yarrow themselves (Tweet's date is May 20 and their first Tumblr post is soon after on June 5):

They don't censor their tweets in any fashion and they have a public account, which makes them easy to find when conducting a regular content search about either character, the cast, or simply looking in the Quotes of popular tweets. You don't have to be a proshipper or devils sacrament attendee to find them—they're out there in the open.

They're a proshipper that enjoys child/adult relationships, uses pictures of Noah where he is as young as eleven in their fantasies, ships Henry and Will romantically, and habitually posts explicit sexual and romantic content about them, all of which feature both Will and Noah as minors.

The ages listed on both accounts and their general speech patterns are the same. They post about the same parallels, same ideas, and same desires for the pair. They react to the same things and share their same findings at similar times. Their Tumblr is practically the exact same as their Twitter, just with more sugarcoating, denial of this behavior, and less explicitly romanticized rape.

I found that they tend to post first on Twitter and then refine it into a more elaborate post on Tumblr, but not always. Here are some examples:

It's the same user. If you can stomach that content and decide to see for yourself, then you'll note the similarities listed above and many more (assuming they don't go private or change usernames). Seriously, you will find every parallel and complaint on both accounts, as well as the same typing style and manner of speaking.

Using pictures or the likeness of real minors should never accompany such fantasies. They don't use drawings with no resemblance to real children; that is a real child plastered all over their account(s), and his name is Noah Schnapp. They're using his likeness from when he was a minor, anywhere from eleven to sixteen, when picturing Will and Henry as a couple, as one can see based on their Tweets. Here are some examples (Likes, Retweets, and one of their own) to get the point across swiftly (though they do have their own similar Tweets too):

If you wouldn't feel comfortable with someone thinking of any random non-famous child that way, why would it be okay in this instance?

The fact that they romantically ship Henry/Vecna/001 and Will is clear from the way they speak about them in their Tumblr posts and Tweets, the way that they liken them to romantic ships or dynamics while admitting to there being a romantic element (which is in line with their many Tweets, some below), but just in case you weren't already aware… now you know.

If you're turned on by minors and/or enjoy thinking of them in that way, then you need to seek help. Pedophilia can't be cured, but it can be treated with therapy. That isn't a kink—it's a paraphilia that is one act upon that desire away from being a psychiatric disorder. You wouldn't even have to interact with a child to reap criminal consequences; just producing or consuming any visual depiction of their engagement in a sexual act is a crime itself—and yes, that includes fan art and cartoon depictions.

Most people understand there's a difference between fiction and reality—ergo, enjoying the drama of a fictional abusive ship does not mean you support abuse in real life. However, things change when real minors are involved in sexually explicit materials. No child should be spoken of or viewed that way by adults that should and do know better. Noah could not have consented to have his pictures, or his likeness, used in this manner, and he likely still wouldn't. Children cannot consent and have the right to exist in the world without being sexualized by adults.

Will is fictional, but Noah is real and his underage likeness is the face of their fantasies. Artwork of Will engaged in sexually explicit conduct would be illegal and considered obscene under the federal law of the United States. Such content is illegal to produce, distribute, receive, or possess, and those convicted could be fined and imprisoned. Historically, this has even extended to textual depictions, too.

There's a reason why it's prohibited on many platforms, why these specific proshippers get suspended and have to remake accounts multiple times, and it isn't because evil conservative "antis" are "kinkshaming" the oppressed proshippers again. The material they produce and share is obscene by legal definition. They're not only picturing Noah's underage face in their mind and their works when they romanticize Will being raped and groomed, but they're proving that by always using pictures of him when he was underage, and only those underage pictures.

Yarrow admits to having interest in and consumed such prohibited materials, as noted by this Liked Tweet, and their own admission (one of many):

The fact that Will is a child and was played by someone with a baby-face is a deliberate and crucial part of the appeal to these people. The corruption of a child's innocence and naïveté, tarred by sexual exploit, sinister intentions, and his lack of consent, is all Henwill's charm (and they say this themselves in Tweets added below). It doesn't work if Will is aged up to an adult and that's why he never is in their fantasies. He has to be a child, helpless and pure and preyed upon, and he has to look like Noah's eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, and sixteen year old self.

They know that it's pedophilic and that's what they like about it. That's the entire point (again, see for yourself beneath the cut). That's why they shamelessly Tweet about it, but deny it here on this platform, where they [hopefully] are not among like-minded company.

I've included an array of tweets that show they do not view Henwill in a platonic fated enemies fashion and never have—no matter how many times they deny this now. You may notice similarities between those Tweets and their posts, how they "refined" their Tweets into something more palatable, as I mentioned earlier. Read at your own risk, but this should be available for viewing to all unless they change their Twitter handle, go private, or delete/unlike them.

There will always be people who become involved after being exposed to this content, but if you already liked to think of children that way, then there wasn't anything anyone could've done to deter you. Pedophilia is resistant to treatment—a Tumblr post wouldn't have cured you and you would've found this eventually. Still, I have blocked out usernames to prevent further exposure. With this post, I hope to inform others who don't share this paraphilia and who were unknowingly helping spread their thinly veiled pedophilic content.

If you cannot stomach explicit pedophilia or rape, then do NOT continue reading this post or visit their Twitter.

[firespawn]

Random characters I'd cast in the Interview with the Vampire TV show 😂

Just to explain this post a bit better...Last year, the IWTV fans asked Jacob and Sam who they think should play Gabrielle and both said Monica Bellucci, a legendary Italian actress. I agree with them that Monica has the beauty and talent to play Gabrielle. I would have cast her if a beautiful European guy was playing Lestat because in the books, Lestat is supposed to look EXACTLY like his mother - and Lestat is currently being played by a handsome, talented Australian actor. But Sam still has to know himself that he literally looks NOTHING like Monica Bellucci so if she plays Lestat's mother, then Monica and Sam will not even look related. 😂

𝗡𝗶𝗰𝗼𝗹𝗲 𝗞𝗶𝗱𝗺𝗮𝗻 actually looks like she could be related to Sam - she's tall, has blue eyes, a jaw line, Australian, also naturally a ginger, she dyes her hair blond too. She said during Covid she's learning Italian which means she can learn her lines in Italian also, Sam has worked with her before in 2012 for a movie called The Railway Man and Sam admires her as a legendary Australian actress so I'm sure Sam would love for Nicole Kidman to play his vampire mother. 🤭❤️

𝗝𝗮𝘀𝗼𝗻 𝗜𝘀𝗮𝗮𝗰𝘀 played Lucius Malfoy so I know he can play the aristocrat abusive father of Lestat just imagine him in a long blond wig, a French accent, and he's perfect. 😖

𝗥𝗶𝗵𝗮𝗻𝗻𝗮 could play Akasha in honor of Aaliyah. 💕

𝗗𝗼𝗻 𝗕𝗲𝗻𝗷𝗮𝗺𝗶𝗻 as Enkil because look at him! 😍

𝗝𝗲𝗿𝗲𝗺𝘆 𝗜𝗿𝗼𝗻𝘀 is who Anne Rice wanted as Lestat so it would be a lovely tribute to her if he was cast to play Magnus - who made Lestat a vampire.

𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗲 𝗛𝗮𝘁𝗵𝗮𝘄𝗮𝘆 would be a great Pandora.

𝗟𝗶𝗹𝘆 𝗝𝗮𝗺𝗲𝘀 I saw her play Cinderella she has a fairy tale beauty perfect for Bianca.

𝗠𝗮𝗱𝗲𝗹𝗮𝗶𝗻𝗲 𝗣𝗲𝘁𝘀𝗰𝗵 would fit as a female in a vampire show.

𝗔𝗻𝘁𝗵𝗼𝗻𝘆 𝗛𝗼𝗽𝗸𝗶𝗻𝘀 because I imagine Lestat wanting to be vampire buddies with Hannibal Lecter. 😂

𝗔𝘃𝗮𝗻 𝗝𝗼𝗴𝗶𝗮 is a handsome Indian actor, he can play David.

𝗝𝗮𝘀𝗼𝗻 𝗠𝗼𝗺𝗼𝗮 fits the intimidating vibe.

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗛𝗲𝗺𝘀𝘄𝗼𝗿𝘁𝗵 - IWTV fans wanted him as Lestat but I cast him as Mael. 😝

𝗗𝗮𝗸𝗼𝘁𝗮 𝗙𝗮𝗻𝗻𝗶𝗻𝗴 and 𝗘𝗹𝗹𝗲 𝗙𝗮𝗻𝗻𝗶𝗻𝗴 ain't twins but are sisters and great actresses so they can play witches.

I know AMC can not afford even half of this cast but LET ME DREAM! 😆

[arpinlusene]

AMC iwtv spoilers ig

Mentions of abuse

I thought that episode five and the reactions that people have had about the episode were really interesting. Iwtv has always been about abuse and abusive relationships but it has mostly been portrayed as emotional and verbal abuse until this point. The way Lestat mocks Louis and Claudia when they are in a vurnerable state, the way Lestat screams at Louis when he says something that annoys him, how Lestat withholds information from Louis just to keep him ignorant by his side. A recuring theme in the book is how Louis feels trapped in this relationship that is slowly sinking him but he has nowhere else to go. And a lot of the time this actions are brushed off as marriage bickering or just Lestat being a drama queen.

But now that the show portrays this abuse as physical violence it immediately makes us all uncomfortable because is something we cannot easly ignore. Seeing Louis' injuries makes it all very real and the show dosent shy away from it. Since the show premiered i have seen a lot of people comparing it to Hannibal and i love both shows but the interesting difference now is that the violence is not portrayed as an intimate moment between the characters and its just seen as cruel. Its a way to remind us that this is a horror story.

Im very excited to see Claudia murder Lestat in the next episodes and see Louis reaction, because in the book even tho living with Lestat has become living hell for him, when Lestat is finally gone he tries to hold on the nice memories that he still has of him. For example them going to the theater together. And that being said im also really excited to hopefully see tvl adapted in the future

[redfirerai]

It’s only been 5 episodes and the iwtv fandom is already a shithole.

First off, the fifth episode SHOULD have had a trigger warning; I agree on that fact. This is not to say that the writers poorly wrote this episode/ made Lestate OOC because, after having watched the episode, I honestly don’t find it surprising that show Lestat would do something like this. It makes sense; he only loved Claudia because Claudia is both loveable and an extension of Louis. Lestat has shown an incredibly large capacity for violence and cruelty. He is not a good person. He is not a hero and he only cares about being Louis’ top priority. But some of you are acting like it wasn’t jarring to watch. As much as I love Hannibal, this is an extremely different situation from the finale of season 2. Louis and Lestat were in a relationship. They were functionally MARRIED. They were never perfect, but this was never even hinted as happening. He’s not had any previous slips with harming Louis or Claudia so people have every right to be shocked.

Second of all, some of you people are acting like Louis and Lestat are equally abusive towards each other, and that is 100% false and reeks of racism. Every moment that Louis rejected or hurt Lestat was always in reaction to Lestat. He was recently human and his current disposition as a fledgling comes with all of his humanly attachments. He cares about his family. His brother died which permanently destroyed his relationship with his mother. His sister became alienated. He was being targeted from every angle for being a black, gay man who dared to move up the social ladder. It’s like half of you blanked out for most of episode two/three until you heard the words “this is why you’ll always be alone,” leave Louis’ mouth. At the very moment he needed humanity and support from the one person he was risking everything for, he was met with complete apathy to his struggles. Not only does Lestat completely misunderstand Louis’ core—the very foundation and set of rules that form his values—he want Louis in a way that is not possible. Louis is a monogamous man that craves family structure—louis is fundamentally a different creature. And that’s okay. That is the story and I’m fully on board to be entranced by its beauty and suffering. But getting mad on behalf of Lestat? Justifying literally any of his actions towards Louis is fucking insane. If he wasn’t conventionally attractive or white, this wouldn’t even be a topic of conversation. You can like him—I absolutely love TV show Lestat for being this unhinged, devoted, and brutal. But don’t fucking twist the canonical story of the TV show to justify the Lestat you head-cannoned in your brain. People do this; this is very real behaviour. Love-bombing and isolating is part of toxic relationships. Many abusers seem like perfectly loving people until things don’t go their way. Seeing only the sacrifices Lestat made for Louis is ignoring the time, context, and attachments Louis had to his human life. I am not saying Louis is an angel, but he definitely is not the abuser in the relationship

Lastly, Claudia’s implied SA is completely unnecessary to the story and her journey as a character. There was no need to do this to her; she could have arrived at the world being a cruel place without this.

On a side note, I don’t have qualms with her character writing but I do see what people are saying about how she didn’t need to see Louis being half beat to death to want to k*ll Lestat. That is probably the only criticism I agree with when it comes to the writing of that scene. I would have loved to see her and Lestat be at eachother’s throats because that was already implied. And Louis, as a father, is justified in choosing Claudia over Lestat, especially when there’s enough abuse already. Again, I don’t think the scene at the end of season 5 was bad/OOC per se, but I don’t think it was completely necessary.

[crazykuroneko]

Tbh I think a lot casual viewers / non book fans are probably going to not continue the show after s2 unless it diverges quite drastically on louis's storyline? iwtv is very bleak and I genuinely think they underestimated how much show viewers ended up hating lestat after s1 (and they may end up in a similar situation with armand in s2) and then you're asking the audience to watch an entire season of this guy's whole backstory. plus you're killing off one of the two likable characters by the end of s2 and shifting louis into more a side character.

a big red flag to me was the lady who hosts the podcast who doesn't have a book background saying a lot of the same stuff as show-only people. like she clearly does not like lestat or loustat at all lmao and its literally her job to promote the show.

First, I want to address the "shifting louis into more a side character" because no I don't agree with that. Contrary to fans believe, Hollywood-standard wise (from the number of episodes they are in, how integral their characters are to the story), both Jacob and Sam have been considered as lead actors/cast of IWTV. You can see industry news outlets calling them both as such. But because IWTV is about Louis' past specifically and AMC knew IWTV still has some hope in Emmys even though it's small, they put them in different categories to not split the votes between them (they even only submit one actor in each category for it). So, look at what we have now, Louis is the narrator yet we still get Lestat in all episodes, and he's leading the NOLA narrative forward together with Louis despite not existing in the Dubai narrative. I bet we'll still get Lestat in most, if not all episodes, in S2, because Rolin has said many many times, the show is about both of them. And I expect they'll do the same in TVL season(s); Lestat is telling the story while Louis is leading whatever will be going on in the modern time. (No, i don't believe they'll make Louis stuck on a couch the whole season to listen to Lestat's story even though it sounds tasty. He'd definitely have a way to know what Lestat's saying, but I don't see anything good writing-wise from sticking your well-developed character in one place for such a long time)

About whether the audience will be willing to listen to Lestat's past, I'll see how S2 goes first before judging that. A lot of people don't like him, but there are a lot of them who are like, "I will miss him if he dies, he's an interesting character".

And IWTV is a niche show, its genre is gothic horror/romance. Who the hell is doing gothic romance for a series in this decade? (Hannibal doesn't count, it's not gothic and still about will/won't they). Like, what AMC is doing with IWTV now is extremely daring. And with a niche show, it's always the same: you can't please everyone. There will always be part of the general audience who will leave because either it's simply not their cup of tea or they can't stomach it. Especially now when there's this purity sentiment going so strongly in general (apparently now we shouldn't ship fictional characters, every sex scene has to have a grand purpose, and you shouldn't watch any portrayal of abuse even though it's produced by the victim herself). God forbid IWTV would ever want to please those people yikes. So, IWTV won't ever get as "mainstream" as what, Succession, Ted Lasso, Better Call Saul. But IWTV would still appeal to people who appreciate good writing, people who are "idc how bad the characters are as long as they're exciting!", and people who really love horror (not that "comfort horror" BS) - there's this review of IWTV from an horror website who is like "I wish they gave us more gore and horror of vampires", oh these people would love S2.

So, tl;dr you could say it's a natural selection (hell yes Darwinism), it's inevitable. I'd rather have that audience leave than stay and ruin fans' experience by whining about the plot that won't ever satisfy them. And I'd always applaud writers who don't give a shit to what people say and stick to what they're meant to do. They slay!

EDIT: ah I forgot about this. but don't underestimate the number of old fans who will probably check the show again when the TVL season(s) come. Because no matter how big their hatred for AMC is, it will be the first time ever for TVL to be adapted on screen. First time in 38 years (yes no one considers QotD movie ever existed). That's too big a temptation!

[bthump]

wait, that makes me very curious as to your tastes. what do you look for in darker ships vs. what don't you enjoy?

Sure, I'm always happy to talk about what I'm into, thanks for asking. cutting this because it's just me navel gazing.

I think the biggest factor for me is how straightforward the power dynamic is vs whether it's subverted or weirdly convoluted. I find powerful evildoer/woob boring as hell 9 times out of 10. It's why I didn't properly ship Hannigram until season 3 when I realized that Hannibal was actually the pathetic woob of the relationship. And it's why Loustat doesn't really do anything for me, especially in the show - I really enjoy both characters, but Lestat's abusive patriarch to Louis' downtrodden depressed housewife is just not compelling to me.

The only times I can really get into straightforward evildoer/victim type dynamics is if I just want someone to torture my fave lol, and in those cases it's not about being emotionally invested in the ship, it's just about being kind of a sadist.

And like, one of the reasons I love griffguts is because Griffith is the colder, more aloof, more socially powerful one, and he's the one who ruins his own life over Guts and ends up in a torture chamber. I love the emotional vulnerability that's at odds with how he presents himself. And it's why I'm into Guts being toppy/dominant rather than Griffith, it's just more fun for me when the sexual dynamic is a reversal of the rest of the power dynamic. I want the king to get fucked by his loyal subject, rather than the king fucking his loyal subject, basically.

I'm also into like, bossy/confident/commanding sub bottoms, awkward dom tops, sub tops and dom bottoms, super powerful characters who turn into total subs in bed, etc. Yk, anything that isn't the traditional confident suave active dommy top/awkward naive passive subby bottom dynamic lol.

[monstersinthecosmos]

I thought I was the only one who thinks Loustat's romance is as dry as a desert. I don't know whether is the direction or the cinematography or writing or whatever the fuck. I see all this sex but none of the desire which is funny because it's all the way around in the books, no dicks touch butts in the novel but it is still a very sensual read. I don't think is a lack of chemistry between the actors neither because they're both clearly committed to their roles and enjoy their parts. I don't know. It's all very weird. Maybe Bryan just hit the jackpot with Hugh and Mads.

I MEAN HE DEFINITELY HIT A JACKPOT LMAO but like I don't think Jacob & Sam are bad, either, and like THEY HAVE SO MUCH CHEMISTRY IN INTERVIEWS???? WHERE IS THAT ON THE SHOW?

It's largely about the writing though and like all my complaints about the show have to do with writing. They're both doing awesome work with what they're given lmao.

I've complained about this a few times already LMAO but all of the sort of self aggrandizing that the show is doing about ~ReMoVing the SuBTExT~ is so hollow to me when you sit down and watch the show and realize the "subtext" they meant was to say THEY FUCK and not THEY ARE IN LOVE WITH EACH OTHER. It reduces love to being about sex in a way that's so just, honestly tacky and disappointing and so out of sync with what I see in the novels.

Like where's the sensuality and heat and fuck-me-eyes and steamy blood sharing and casual intimacy? Don't just show me Sam's ass in the pilot in a scene that's arguably dubcon. Don't sell your show as a romance when the most genuine interaction between them was 2 seconds from Claudia's POV.

I think there's a lot of telling and not showing going on; I spent the entire first episode not sure what Louis sees in him aside from the mind gifting & coercion, because they made the choice to montage their courtship and not show us the romance. The second episode Louis had to literally say like 5 times "He was enthralling" voiced over scenes of abuse and coercion. Third episode is infidelity drama with Louis's puppydog eyes going "Aren't I enough?" and like ?? Where does this even come from? Do they even like each other lol.

Plus with all the confusing exposition about why are we doing a second interview that scene when Daniel plays the tape at him is so ??? THEYRE THE SAME PICTURE LOL. It ruins the argument that they look worse/more frigid because of Louis's POV. They're telling us out loud that Louis is portraying Lestat as his soulmate, that's the story we're supposed to be getting? But he's still coming off like a complete asshole? This confused me so much.

Enjoy the toxic ship as much as you want but I just, don't see the horniness personally. Louis has been abused to an honestly unreasonable degree, and they used such real-world tropes to show us that it doesn't feel like fantastical vampire drama, especially when they've made such a point in anchoring his character into his race. Everyone had a problem with the violence in episode 5 but doesn't seem to care about the insincere gift-giving in episode 6, when that's JUST as realistic to real life abuse. But what I've learned from this fandom is that abuse isn't real unless someone hits you lol but that's not my business.

(Let's also not get into how the abuse in Episode 6 was also largely directed at Claudia but that's another story.)

I just don't get it like, we know from Hannibal, from Tony Soprano, from Walter White, from Dexter, that you can have fun with a bad guy, you can still enjoy when he gets what's coming to him, you can cheer for him through the badness. They had Lestat there already and oversold it, imo. He was already so petty and abusive and poorly behaved and it would've made sense that they rise up against him. They just oversold it so hard in a way that's just so uncomfortable (real world uncomfortable) outside of genre convention and just isn't all that fun to watch tbh. And they've made Louis such a sad sack it's just, so hard to watch him go through this. I think if he had a shred of agency it would feel more like it was in his own power and I'm just not really getting that from the story they're telling us and it's honestly just so fucking depressing.

And all that and it's like, not even sexy idk. Like if you're having fun and it gets you off, please enjoy! I just think it's being beaten over the head, like it was already so abusive via the gaslighting and whatnot and that type of CHEMISTRY is something I really enjoy in toxic ships hahaha but it's just like, so unrelenting and it's hard to enjoy when we never get to see them just loving each other.

Like, when Lestat is inevitably murdered and Louis has to deal with the guilt and grief of it, what is he even going to be grieving? With Paul they made the point to let us see their relationship so we understand what he lost, and with Lestat? idk. It'll be more of the voiceover going "He was all I knew" without like, letting us enjoy that on screen while it's still here.

[most-screwed-by-writers-tourney]

Propaganda:

Louis and Lestat:

In the original book Lestat literally turns a 5 year old little girl into a vampire to trap Louis in their loveless, abusive relationship, because he knows Louis will worry about Lestat (whom Louis now recognizes as a remorseless monster who sees humans as nothing but food) using this child (Claudia) as a tool and creating the most evil and messed up surrogate child of all time. (He was right, btw, bc she grows into a woman trapped forever in a child's body and hates them both for it. but this isn't about Claudia.)

In the TV series, Lestat is a white devil offering aid, sympathy, and love to a gay, closeted black man in the 1900s. He offers him company, capital, a friend who sees him as an 'equal' Once he turns him into a vampire, his desire to possess and control Louis becomes apparent. He displays TEXTBOOK narcissistic and abusive partner behaviors, apologies for how awful he was, promises to change, makes romantic gestures to try and smooth things over. They start having an 'open relationship' where Lestat loses it over Louis taking advantage of being able to see other people. Lestat writes a love song for him and sends Louis a recording sung by the woman he's having an affair with; Louis confronts him at the singer's apartment and they have angry sex in her bed.

Late in the TV series, they get in another fight, and Lestat literally drops Louis out of the sky and leaves him paralyzed, with Claudia (in this adaptation, a young woman who is more like a sister/mother to Louis) to nurse him back to health and re-teach him how to walk. Louis still takes him back.

In both the book and the TV series, Claudia convinces Louis that the only way they can be free is to kill Lestat. In both, they poison him, slit his throat, and dump his body in a swamp. In the TV version, Louis sobs over Lestat's dead body, refusing to allow Claudia to burn him and ensure he can't come back from it. (Spoilers: he gets better. and he's pissed about it! He follows them to Europe.)

Their gay divorce drama eventually results in the destruction of an entire enclave of over 400 vampires in Paris and the death of their surrogate daughter.

Clarice and Hannibal: none submitted.

[annyankers]

I would love to hear more about your Angel !!

oKAY SO ANGEL

his tag on here is angel (train’s version) for reference. also my old rp blog for him is @aithrioch which has some things like headcanons and aesthetics.

Okay gonna make an effort to not repeat myself though I also can’t completely remember what I’ve already said so B)

More emphasis on his time homeless. Like it’s brought up in more when it makes sense and it becomes especially important in ATS and becomes a point of bonding and discussion between him and Gunn.

Dating Buffy is probably his biggest lapse in judgement since wandering into an alley to get laid in the 1700s and it shows. Like he walked in knowing this was a bad idea, saw every red flag and did it anyway. It’s not a reemergence of Angelus behavior it’s Peak Liam Nonsense and it’s left his relationship and feelings towards Buffy very complex and fucked. I think from like BTVS S4/ATS S1 on his primary feeling towards her isn’t really love but guilt. Guilt over how much he fucked up her life and not just as Angelus but you know, as an adult engaging romantically with a teen.

Angelus has more of a Hannibal Lector vibe.

Heavy substance abuse in BTVS as part of coping. When we see him in btvs he’s literally JUST stopped living on the streets in the Depths of Despair. So in btvs S1-2 he’s smoking and drinking heavily to try and make it through another moment on this bitch of an earth. The drinking isn’t as obvious an issue until Buffy’s with him more. Ironically angelus drinks and smokes a normal ass amount because he’s not Lamenting and angel stops doing both in s3 since you know.... fresh outta hell and all that. don’t worry he’s back to chain smoking when he gets into ATS lol. It becomes a Running Issue with him and his Very Human and Lung Dependent Staff.

He listens to the smiths, the cure and similar music. He’s that kinda person. yes. also still listens to barry mannilow. he’s a man of many facets.

He’s Very Normal about Darla. So Normal.

Angel(us) has a Complex around his visual age and how it tends mean that he isn’t given much respect. Part of what fueled his actions back in the day was clout building so he’d get some fucking respect and stop being treated like a baby faced loser.

Circling back to the Buffy thing he realizes in ATS S2 that he perpetuated the cycle of abuse/grooming with her that Darla perpetuated on him. Because Darla 10000% groomed and manipulated him.

Darla and Angel have a Louis and Lestat vibe (but like..... more the new series version of them you know????)

Falls back into Catholicism after his time in hell for the comfort of it. he was born in 1700s Ireland where church was the center of life and Catholicism is like, the most ritualistic version of Christianity. It’s the familiarity and ritual/schedule of it that are comforting/helpful for him, less so the religious stuff. Even so ats needed more catholic stuff in it. Catholic ideology is a staple of angel’s thinking, the bedrock of it really. Literally all this shit about sin and redemption and shit is so aggressively catholic. He’s literally out here looking for a priest who can tell him how many Hail Marys he needs to say to atone for the Atrocities.

Is actually very jealous of Spike later into BTVS/ATS. When Spike’s hanging out with the Scoobies n shit just fine because Spike’s capable of that kind of interaction without a soul while Angel has one and still struggles with it. It’s one of the few things in which he gets jealous of Spike over, how easy it is for him to straddle the soul/morality/dark impulse control chasm. Like it’s very unlikely he’d ever say it out loud or tell the Scoobies but Angel knows just how difficult chip or no chip some vampires would find it to be even remotely civil let alone actually work with them. it frustrates him endlessly that Spike has it so easy.

Yes even as Angel he DOES have an EGO.

Angel(us) is just a metric ton of complexes in a trenchcoat. ATS is just a guided tour through them.

In my brain he’s a mix of Marcus from Deadly Class, Stefan from The Vampire Diaries and Hannibal Lector from the Movies and Shows. Along with some Columbo and Stock Lovecraft Protagonist for flavor.

He’s so pretentious, so lifeless and pallid. He’s like a drive thru attendant with an MFA in fine arts during a graveyard shift.

okay this is all I’m doing on this for now as opposed to the fucking NOVEL for Xander because I don’t have the energy/brain power for it now and if I waited for that to happen to write another novel it could be another 80 years lol

[supernatural-ruined-my-life]

Don't try to justify the shit that happened with loustat at the end of episode 5 with my beloved Hannigram!!

This is something different, it's unbalanced. Will and Hannibal have a power over each other and they're aware of that. At the end of S2 Will knows that he changed Hannibal, but it goes both ways. What Will and Hannibal had is like a mental game. They're trying to catch each other. It's like a mouse and cat game. Is manipulative? yes, Is psychologically abusive? Yes! Is Toxic? Yes as hell. But loustat can't never be them.

Will had a mind of a serial killer even before Hannibal appear in his life. He just needed a push. And while Hannibal tried to kill him twice (or more), did he really want to kill him? I don't think so. He never succeeded. Hannibal's attempts of killing Will are more poetic and related with situations in the past... Like when Hannibal cuts Will's stomach... The scene plays in a romantic way (which of course it's fucked up but hey they're serial killers and cannibals). Hannibal is hurt but treats Will very gently. He puts his hand in will's cheek and then he embrace him. And after that (yes, he survived), Will says that he wanted to run away with him!!! And he say shits like "I have never known myself as well as I do when I am with him".

Will eventually learns to play Hannibal's game. He's so strong in S3. He can be manipulative as well. He fantasized about killing Hannibal. He confesses that to Hannibal. He says he fantasies killing him with his hands. In that scene they're only talking, but there's so much sexual tension. And keep in mind that they were enemies in the beginning, they went to friends to enemies to (almost) lovers.

Now see the problem? Rolin Jones tried to copycat Bryan Fuller but it didn't work because Louis and Lestat are not equals in any moment of the series. Lestat is rich, old, white, powerful and with so much vampire knowledge. Furthermore, Louis doesn't embrace his killer side. What they have in common??? 💀 They're so far from being just a gothic toxic couple.

Fuller understood the "I can make him worse" trope very well. ❤️🤌

So, yes both couples had some similarities but one is just simple abusive and the other is a great toxic love story.

[knifelesbianjo]

I have seen some takes about how this feels different than hannigram bc will had power in the relationship and here louis just does not (as it's shown on episode 5) and i agree that that is why it feels different but I think that's kind of the point. Here me out:

Obviously they have a power imbalance in the present that's what they made clear with that beating, but they already told us this in the past, especially in episode 2, but that's not gonna be the case forever.

I see that the question now is how they are gonna fix them or how they are gonna make the audience root for them again and I think is literally that: Louis is gonna reclaim his power in the relationship (probably by killing him and god knows what else)

He literally says it in episode 2 when he keeps repeating that he was under lestat's power and that he 'had a way about him', they have never been balance, even if louis did abuse lestat in his own way (as he literally says in episode 5).

This scene is not the hannibal s2 stabbing, this is the s1 'framing you for murder' plot, which does feel devastating like this, bc it is the proof of the imbalance and will has to recover for that, they have to get to a point were they are equals again, and this is what they've been trying to say to us the whole season.

So I tell you that by the end of the season we are all gonna be rooting for them again bc louis is gonna stand up and set the balance equal again and then fuck off for a few decades, it's literally will sending a killer after hannibal or letting him rot in prision for a few years, both things that set their balance again and make the audience root for the fucked up toxic romance instead of being horrified at the domestic abuse.

tldr: wait till the end of the season bc I don't think they're planning on portraying louis as a victim, he just needs to find his footing.