#bts army discourse

[alrightiguesstheblameisonme]

If shippers had an ounce of decorum and shame in them, they wouldn’t jeopardize the people they claim to stan for a gotcha moment. But guess what? that’s too much to expect from any subset of the fandom. People have spread the location of their hotel, the streets they walked, their casual conversations have been recorded, now they are putting videos out there about which country they have landed in. And unlike Europe, SEA countries don’t give them as much anonymity. Now with freaks leaking their locations left right and center, I am sure it’s gonna be smooth sailing. Shippers who can’t even respect basic boundaries need to disappear, they are real people in the real world, this isn’t wattpad.

[indigoboifics]

im a taekook author BUT i hate jikook/taekook beef...its ABSURD!! so here are some cute maknae line fanarts 🥺 💜 🐯🐰🐥

credits: pic1, pic2, pic3, pic4, pic5, pic6, pic7, pic8

[beautifulpersonpeach]

A few days ago I responded to an ask, explaining that Korean K-pop stans overall are the more intense version of whatever you see on the international side, and that one way k-fans perceive international fans is that international k-pop stans are easier to manipulate and rile up.

For anyone who is aware of the subway scare and the supposed link to ARMY and BTS, pay very close attention to what’s happening right now as a case study demonstrating what I wrote, happening in real time.

As a quick overview:

1 - This happened about an hour before Yoongi’s live where he showed his tattoo

*

2 - About an hour after this happened, an ARMY coming back from Yoongi’s concert, watching his livestream on their way home, reacts to his tattoo by screaming while in the subway. They record themselves and post the video on Twitter. The tweet itself is deleted now so I can’t link it, but I’ll link the OG video in point 5.

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3 - After that ARMY posted their reaction to Yoongi’s tattoo, this Korean k-pop stan claims a fan screamed next to them on the train and caused panic and a stampede. This account’s most recent activity is from 2022, but the first thing they tweet in 2023 is that an ARMY caused a stampede because of Yoongi. Okay.

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4 - One of the followers of that account then retweets that account to post an edited version of the ARMY reaction video, blurring out the reaction on the train, and further linking the two events (1) an ARMY screaming about Yoongi, (2) a resulting stampede that needed police intervention. This video is then used as the basis for user posts and articles written on k-blogs which then get translated as user posts on Allkpop and Pannchoa.

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5 - For reference, this is the OG video from that ARMY showing what actually happened on the train. Note how there’s no panic in the train.

***

Basically, two events separated by about an hour are conflated on purpose by linked anonymous accounts on the Korean side, quickly translated into English and spread on the international side through k-pop gossip blogs like Allkpop, which Korean soft media (blogs etc) then picks up and takes as further credit to the underlying claims, though those claims are false.

And voila, a scandal is born.

Now, this isn’t to say BTS, ARMY, and people affiliated with them never do anything wrong and can never have a legit scandal. For example, I think anybody screaming for no good reason in a packed subway train is an idiot and should face some kind of consequence if harm is caused. But that’s not what happened here. What that ARMY did was stupid but harm wasn’t caused and Korean antis instead used it as an opportunity to link BTS with an incident that happened an hour earlier.

Occasionally, some of you might’ve seen me write about ‘manufactured controversy’ before, usually in passing when discussing something else. I remember I’ve mentioned it a few times such as during Jimin’s missed insurance payments scandal, during Jungkook’s Itaewon scandal, and also Min Heejin re: NewJeans (after just 5 minutes of looking at the original claims in Korean. The only thing holding the majority of the claims against MHJ together is sheer willpower and vibes atp). Someone has also asked me about hate ‘slave rooms’ before (context was Twice attacked by slave room hate) and I responded that hate in Korea towards people in the k-pop industry, is incredibly organized and insidious. And the bigger the target, the bigger the fall and the bigger the payout.

Please keep that in mind when you read shit online. Keep your eyes open and your wits about you. Become more media literate and learn how to think for yourself. Seriously. Because in this machine called k-pop, nearly everything about it is designed to suck you in till you have no idea which way is up. Pay attention, please.

2026 is still a long way off and we’ll have many incidents like this before then.

Good luck everyone.

[reflections-in-a-critical-eye]

Since when is Bada Lee dance for "real men" and contemporary for "wannabe women".

Sometimes I wish the tweets would also show me the age and country of the person tweeting. Coz stan twitter is getting ridiculous with their bs.

Well, that's incredibly offensive and I think a lot of us know very well the category of people who would say this. Unfortunately, large sections of some kpop fandoms and in this case, a specific group of shippers within army are known for their internalized misogyny and homophobic views and they have no issue in expressing that because there is no such thing as a consequence anymore. Not only that, it is more rampant and more rewarding on X ever since likes are private.

[goldenalbum]

can we please collectively realize how fucking ludicrous comments like these are?

hybe is not 'feeding' delulus. they're literally just putting out bts content as usual. it's the same sort of content that has always been released, the same dynamics between the members that army have grown to love. let jungkook interact with jimin and taehyung, for gods sake, and appreciate those moments just like you would appreciate them for any other bts dynamic.

how can you call yourself ot7 when you refuse to let yourself enjoy certain bts duos and claim that their interactions are put out to feed shippers? should they just never show us footage of jk with vmin ever again? would that satisfy you? wtf do you want from hybe and bts at this point? 🙄 get a grip.

[taehyungfirst]

https://www.tumblr.com/taehyungfirst/746588792240193536/im-gonna-rant-sorry-but-what-the-actual-fuck-is

solos have genuinely lost their damn minds 😭 i know they've been nasty forever but it's definitely reached new heights during chapter 2. part of me is excited for the group comeback just because it means all the solos will have to engage with all the other members they hate so bad if they want to support their fav. and then they'll no longer be able to live through their favs' solo achievements so they'll have nothing to argue about 😭

it's crazy because if their favs knew the insults they were spewing towards their bandmates in their name, they'd hate them. just sad.

Especially when they start saying vile things about other members or when they push narratives in which x hates y, like WHO are you? Why do you think they would shake your hand and pat your head after you said some vile shit about a member they consider family? And this shows that they never had friends.

If only they listened to 1/4 of the things bts said through chapter 2, they would realize that trending about bts disbandment only makes them look silly and quite pathetic.

[bts-polls]

LAST CALL: Will BTS be actively pursuing a Grammy when they return as a group?

[bangtanhoesthings]

Long ask.

Forgive me, this will be all over the place.

I have noticed that over the past few years the hate for the boys has been escalating particularly for Jimin, Jungkook and Joonie.

For Joonie, among other things, because as a leader, if they break him, they might break BTS. (Gosh look at him😭. Has me my man, my man, my man-ning all over the place like a dog in heat, it's embarrassing and a little concerning). Sorry, I digressed but look at him 😭😭😭, y'all don't thirst over this man enough. Woof! 🫦

Anyways, moving on.

For Jungkook, among a plethora of other reasons, because of the unrivaled, unmitigated global success he has had and continues to have (am so proud of my funky lil popstar ✨).

He came, he saw, he conquered. Kicked ass and took names. Ate and left no crumbs. Had them by the neck. Pulled up and shut it down (Somebody stop me 😭)

The way some army attribute his success to the 🛴 guy boils my blood, and that rage is for another day.

This post is towards Jimin.

Jimin's hate is both from outside and inside the fandom ( am not talking about solos, toxic shippers, mantis and the like) but people who claim to be 0T7.

I know that Jimin has had haters for years but the shady tweets I saw during the FACE and MUSE era from so called "ARMY" said a lot. Am not here to debate who is or isn't ARMY. That's for another time.

My question is, why does Jimin's success seem to be a sore spot for some 0T7s? The one reason I have been able to come up with is that Jimin sort of messed up the hierarchy system.

Let me explain and see if I make sense. For a long time, when people thought of the maknae line, no matter the order in which they ranked Tae and Kookie, Jimin was always the third one. Too many posts relegating him to the role of cheerleader and not much else. I saw posts before solo works commenced dismissing the idea that Jimin would ever release an album but would instead fully support the others. Well, he not only released two solo albums, but was also a composer, lyricist among other things, so they can take their opinion and smoke it.

When the solo era started, people had different expectations for what every maknae members would achieve but no matter the expectations, those for Jimin were that he would be third. Bronze medalist if you will.

FACE was released, Like Crazy got to number 1 and I logged off twitter. We were in hell particularly when it went from 1 to 45 after Billboard deleted over 100k sales and changed the rules (thank you Travis Scott for freeing Jimin and finally taking that number 1 spot). The hate from outside was expected, it was when it came from within the fandom that it hurt.

Fast forward to MUSE and it got worse. Sprinkle in a dash of Are You Sure and we have

Here I have a list of things I have noticed

1. An increase in the number of people talking about how they hate PJMs and how they are making them turn against Jimin. Honey, if a solo can make you dislike one member, you aren't sh*t anyway.

2. Dislike for Jimin disguised as dislike for his solos. If you haven't seen it, consider yourself lucky.

3. How sometimes ARMY came in droves when a member didn't achieve something but Jimin did. For example Spotify US. When a new song failed to enter but Jimin's songs increased ( during both LC and Who era).

4. His long run on the hot 100 has really revealed people's true colours. It's not his fault. Blame the fandom for their clear bias.

5. The number of ARMY accounts on X low key calling AYS fanservice.

6. Discourse on Jimin's ability to sing. I don't argue with stupid people.

I could go on and on but what I am trying to say is that in a perfect world, it would be wonderful if all the members had the same support from ARMY. The discrepancy needs to be addressed (caused by a multitude of reasons) but making it a member's fault and not the fandom is asinine.

I used to be a 1D fan and my favourite member to date is the least favourite and successful, Louis Tomlinson but that doesn't mean I hate on Harry, Zayn or Niall for their success. I wouldn't even know where to begin.

What prompted this you may ask? I saw a post talking about Jimin being the company and fandom fave and having special support. Like huh?

All in all what I am trying to say is that Jimin really shook things up and some people resent him for it. That one post (article?) about Jimin bringing out either admiration or envy keeps getting proven right.

Keep supporting this angel for a long and happy life.

What do you think are some other reasons for the increase in the 0T6 agenda against Jimin?

[lostcatinthedark]

I actually liked Namjoon. I liked Indigo (not RPWP though) and thought it was a shame that it didn’t receive the support it deserved. I also felt bad for him because I knew that he received almost (emphasis on almost) the same amount of hate that Jimin got.

That IG post though, and the fact that he probably knew the entire ugly discourse that went down the weeks before the announcement of the winner and still decided to post that 💀

Some people are saying it’s probably not intentionally malicious but I don’t know man…

Needless to say, I’m disappointed in him. And I wouldn’t be surprised if Jimin was too, although he probably would never admit it.

His posts were shady. And I'm tired of people expecting us to always give some members the benefit of the doubt for their comments about Jimin. "He didn't mean that" "it's just a joke" "they're family you don't get their bond". That's bullshit. He wasn't just happy because he won, he was happy because he beat Jimin (cue article he posted) And then he added that bts reunion article to ground things again lol. I'm sorry, but how people can't see through what they do is crazy to me. And just as armys see solos as an extention of JM, the members do too. Do people seriously think that the members (especially the chronically online ones) don't know what happens in the fandom? That they don't know what people are saying about them? That they don't see some members out charting them and know that their solos are carrying the releases? And this is not me saying that he hates Jimin or something, but I don't know how long we have to pretend that the members don't see each others as rivals and are not resentful of their support as well. That "I did some lyrics" story was also weird, and we let it pass. That "I see everyone winning and I feel like I should be doing the same" right after Jimin won a Korean show. That "My album didn't get a BB entry but..." right after Who charted in BB. Like it's obvious. I've talked before about fandom narratives and that the reason why they are so strong is because the members and the company always reinforce them with their actions. This narrative that he's the leader and deserves more for that, or that JM is a selfless cheerleader who needs someone else, the members themselves also believe that. And that's why their shadiness also comes through with their comments everytime a member steps out of their assigned box. So yes, for me it was shady and bitter, it's not the first time and it won't be the last. I think he's the best rapper in the group and a good lyricist, I liked Indigo a lot even though I didn't enjoy his last album that much for some reasons. But honestly, he needs to stop being bitter about life. This is just my opinion and I always repeat it but he always seems lost and resentful about what he has. Maybe he expected something different, but he's still a very successful artist. He just needs to find his audience and stop getting jealous (his words) about what someone else gets or doesn't get. His own mind is not letting him appreciate the blessings he has. I don't like that attitude because it's fueled by ego and that will only continue to escalate if he doesn't work through it.

And about JM, I can't really speak for him in that regard. But I think he's perceptive and also empathetic enough to at least notice and understand things when he's aware of them. I think it's not a common relationship overall because they are bandmembers, but also competition now, and also friends but also business men. So his words and actions publically have to balance all that, and I don't want to victimize him because he's an adult and knows how to handle that (or will learn if he doesn't know yet). But my perception about these attitudes doesn't change even if he's fine with that. I still think these actions are shitty and no one will convince me otherwise.

[myobsessionsspace]

Thinking about their struggles, when it all would get too much, what do they do…

Travel TOGETHER

2017

It would only be during their MMA 2018 after winning the Dasaeng that Jin would reveal the depths of their troubles, that the group had been contemplating disbandment.

At the time in their career they were reaching new successful career heights, but also impossible physical and mental lows as a team and individuals. They documented this time period after the fact, in their show ‘Monuments: Beyond the Star’ and also their autobiography ‘Beyond The Story: 10 Year Record of BTS’.

BTS were reaching new heights in their career, starting to receive greater Western awareness and achievements, after already making waves in their home country of South Korea (debuting in 2013) and Japan where they debuted the following year. They were in the final stretch of their Wings World Tour, which had started in February 2017, but all was not well for the group members.

They were overwhelmed and overworked and each trying to cope in their own ways, sometimes leaning on each other or others but mostly trying to power through alone.

As a belated birthday gift for Jimin (whose birthday was Oct 13th), when the members had some downtime from their tour dates, which would end in December 2017, Jungkook paid and planned for the two of them to go to Tokyo. Somewhere Jimin had wanted to go when not working.

Jimin had expressed interest in visiting Disney and had also through the years, expressed the desire to be able to spend personal time travelling with Jungkook as well.

Jungkook brought Jimin’s desires to life in the middle of one of their most difficult times in their careers.

Jimin & Jungkook head to Tokyo 2017

2023

Another milestone period in the groups career, this time it wasn’t the looming consideration of disbandment plaguing the members but the inevitable pause of group activities, with all of them agreeing to complete their country’s mandatory military service for all able South Korean men.

Time and time again the members have let it be known their love for performing, being active members of the group and being able to connect with their fans, ARMY.

This time Jimin and Jungkook weren’t part of a group 4 years into their stardom but members of an established, globally accomplished group of 10+ years worth of fans, success and stardom.

Before enlisting in the army, something that had been the subject of national and international discourse for years. Before they would be under instruction from military superiors and surrounded by new comrades they’d never met before. Jimin and Jungkook decided to not just travel to Tokyo together like they had done in 2017, but visit several spots, to enjoy each other and the world before essentially being benched for 18 months.

Jimin & Jungkook head to Tokyo 2023

Why I Think They Share

2017

Jimin and Jungkook both documented the trip to Tokyo in their own styles and shared it online.

It was a trip for the two of them, but like anyone who goes on a trip, sometimes during it or sometimes when we return, we post on our IG, our FB etc. We share videos and photos with our friends and family, our colleagues even our neighbours. We want to revel in the memories, share the stories of the fun we had, places we saw and food we ate.

Jimin’s video is totally that vibe…whilst GCF Tokyo is something so much more.

2023

Now superstars as a group and in their own right as solo artists, more internationally known than ever before and in the middle of (more than a break from a tour) solo promotions and preparing to retreat from society to serve in the military for a year and a half Jimin & Jungkook still made it possible. They still made it possible to enjoy time with each other and travel but also to share that like before.

This time not a video by Jimin and a GCF by Jungkook but an 8 part series! Not one trip but several trips, not a video each from Jimin & Jungkook but several episodes on a globally accessible platform. Something for people to watch whilst they are out of the public eye, they enjoyed during and now we can enjoy now.

I’ve said this before with Jikook and I’ll say it again.

Some things change but some things stay the same

🖤🤍

TL;DR as third parties watch after the fact and be happy, smile and laugh at the fun times they enjoyed with each other. Witness and appreciate their sincerity and bond. Hope they have many more opportunities to do this whenever they need and want to, not just when rough times are had or coming. Be happy for them.

[starryjkoo]

tkkrs and kths are really going to bully away one of the few journalists who actively writes positive articles about BTS, and ARMYs are just going to sit back and let them because he's outwardly Jimin biased & likes (but doesn't ship) jkk... wow. I guess they don't care about how those groups are embarrassing the hell out of us rn either?

I've said it time and time again but this fandom really is it's own worst enemy...

[roo-bastmoon]

Thoughts on 3D

So Jungkook's collab with Jack Harlow is out. It is catchy; it will go viral. I have purchased it; I will add it to my new releases playlists--same as I do for all our boys.

But while the dancing was cool and JK's parts are okay (I'm not thrilled that the word "girl" is used literally 20 times, but I get what the western music industry is), I was--I need to be honest here--really taken aback and unhappy with how misogynistic Jack Harlow's rap lyrics were. As far as I'm concerned, he's absolutely unnecessary, and I'll be supporting the alternate version with a lot more enthusiasm.

A deeper look at the lyrics and more of my thoughts are under the cut if you're interested (but by clicking, you're agreeing to keep it respectful in the comments or you'll get banned.)

All my ABG's get cute for me I had one girl (One girl), too boring Two girls (Two girls), that was cool for me Three girls, damn, dude's horny Four girls, okay now you whorin' (Hey, hey, hey) Hey, I'm loose I done put these shrooms to good use

Setting young women up in a line and talking about how sleeping with just one is too boring but sleeping with four is whorish? Yeah, miss me with it.

Then there's this:

You won't regret me (You won't regret me) Champagne confetti (Champagne confetti) I wanna see it In motion In 3D (Show it to me, girl, now, why?)

I was given to understand that "ABG" stands for "Asian Baby Girl" and refers to an Asian party girl who likes clubbing, wearing excessive makeup and tattoos, and revealing clothes, etc.

I also learned from Urban Dictionary—which can be an unreliable site with outdated or incorrect information—that "champagne" has referred to underage girls in the past and "confetti" or nowadays “champagne confetti” refers to orgasm, or sometimes when a group of men or women surround someone, masturbate, and then ejaculate on them.

Not even going to get into the shrooms thing. I'm not in a hyper conservative country with harsh punishments for those type of drugs so... I was a bit taken aback about a song about being fucked right, and now there's lyrics about what amounts to harem girls.

*sigh* Do you know how much I hope I'm reading into things incorrectly? Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding the innuendo, but this is what urban dictionary says. I'm 44 and live in a cave. Maybe I'm wrong.

But in any case, the vibe of Jack's parts in the video was not coming off respectful.

I don't care how many other rap songs objectify and insult women--I won't get behind any content that does. And don't even try to gaslight me or other ARMY into saying we should like this because it's comparatively worse in other rap songs. Don't try to suppress any discourse about it, either--let women discuss how they feel about how they are represented. Don't police women. Don't silence women.

BTS' rap music got so much better once they incorporated feminist feedback, so I'm used to a higher standard and I won't be lowering those standards for anyone. I have no hang ups about sex, but please miss. me. with. misogynistic. bullshit.

Then again, it seems some of the rap hyungs were on board with this.

So I guess industry pros have a different take on stuff like this!

*shrug*

Okay, we have established that I really don't like Jack Harlow's contributions to this song. Which means I'll support the alternative. Thank goodness they had the foresight to provide an alternative!

Now I can work for JK's charts in a way that doesn't aggravate my conscience. All good. Enough said on 3D.

Personally? I really hope JJK1 showcases JK's range of genres, but also has a range of topics besides pursuing girls or being cool.

I just can't vibe with a fuckboy persona; I never liked Justin Bieber or Justin Timberlake for that very reason, even if some of their songs sound fine. Now, if Jungkook really admires their style and wants to pursue it, I'm not going to rag on him for it. Of course not. It's his choice and I can respect people's choices without making the same choices myself.

I will always try to support our members as far as I can, even if not everything is my cup of tea.

But I can't help hoping for something personal and authentic and substantive, when it's just Jungkook coming to us without a collab. (And with Scooter at the helm for an all-English EP, I guess I'm not holding my breath. But maybe this is all part of the learning and growing process. Time will tell.)

Please know that I don't expect other people to suit me and my tastes, but neither will I enthusiastically support content with my time and money when they don't suit me at all or actually really turn me off, ya feel me? It's a real and respectful relationship I have with BTS and their music; not performative. I don't follow along quietly out of obligation, but rather a sincere joy to participate.

I love Jungkook deeply. He's a sweet and intelligent and kind-hearted young man. Amazingly talented and humble. Sincere, open to being vulnerable, protective of those whom he loves. He donates to kid's hospitals, for goodness sake. Jeon Jungkook is a good egg.

I guess I'm just sort of feeling a bit whelmed by the type of music that is in vogue these days. JK worked hard, he did well on his parts. I just am hoping his album showcases some of the emotional depth and meaningful thoughts I have seen from him in the past, if I'm being purely honest. *shrug*

Those are my less-than-two cents. Of course, you may have a vastly different perspective and I appreciate that. Just please keep it respectful of all members and each other in the comments here. It's been a long day and I desperately need some real rest now. I'm trusting I can post this and not come back to a warzone.

I've got a Friday Thirst post in the queue for you guys, and then I'll be taking a bit of a break from social media for a few days to work on work deadlines. Please keep voting for Jimin and of course stream and buy for Jungkook and other new releases.

Sending you all so much love!

~Roo

[beautifulpersonpeach]

Can I ask you some questions

1. What does karmy generally think about I army ? From what we see I army especially I jkkrs always see karmy as this ultimate power which can confirm something related to boy or jkk etc

2. Is there heavy homophobia in SK like I see Jkk bloggers always warning about which will affect safety of Jkk. I'm confused as when I see street interviews many Koreans seems open minded about it.

3. Is it true that Karmy indeed knows 'tea' lol. I always see bloggers here saying they are hiding it for jkk and boys safety and only share it in their cirlces. But I'm confused, there are antis in SK too and even ex fans can turn antis. Even recently we saw some I- jkkrs turning against JK because he was pushed by company. If one of them really has tea won't it be shared online and harm them which makes me think Karny also knows infos like I army except maybe they'll be seeing boys often.

***

Speaking for myself here.

1 - Every type of fan you have in i-ARMY, you have in k-ARMY, it's just that in k-ARMY it's the more intense version. The antis are more persistent, hateful and vicious, the cosplayers are more devious, the shippers more certain, the chartmys more obsessed and calculating, the solo stans more unhinged and vile, the mantis more extreme, even the OT7s are more intense in how hard they go for every member, more than anything I've seen on the i-ARMY side. But I do think the general perception Korean fans have of international fans (in general not just k-ARMY), is that many international k-pop stans are very easy to manipulate and rile up. Manipulation happens on the Korean side too but with foreigners it's way easier. And I don't think this disadvantage to international fans is just down to language barriers. Cultural nuances between Korea and most Western countries is what drives the bigger role, in my opinion. You simply cannot afford to be thin-skinned and simple-minded as a Korean person in regular society, and in the k-pop industry this is the bare minimum requirement to succeed as an idol for a reason. I mean, have you sat down to think about the sort of brutal honesty, cynicism, and vanity that's rampant in a culture, for plastic surgery to be so common it becomes banal?

Anyway, to answer your first question, k-ARMYs see international ARMYs as somewhat easy to manipulate, but at the same time very volatile and entitled. Sometimes. That first point though means you and I are not the only people who've noticed some people gobble up anything so long as it's in Korean, and that bias can be abused.

That said though, in the jikook community at least far as I know, many k-jokers are legit ARMYs who don't want to endanger the boys by spreading reckless information. Sometimes there are cosplayers and sasaengs mixed in, who do have ulterior motives / misleading information, but the community so far has been able to keep bad actors to the minimum. Overall though, what I really think is that if you actually respect the guys, the ultimate authority/power to confirm something related to them is the boys themselves. Their own actions and words should be clear enough, and your mind capable enough of arriving at a reasoned opinion all on your own. You can test that opinion against new information such as, a Korean person who claims they are more knowledgeable on the topic - because as I've said, Korean is very nuance-dependent and cultural insight is integral to always getting the full picture. Think about what the new information means for your opinion, and move forward with the opinion that makes the most sense to you at the end. Brownie points if you can engage in fandom with people with differing viewpoints, somewhat respectfully.

**

2 - Yes, there's heavy homophobia. And yes the younger generation is more accepting of it but that doesn't ultimately matter because of how Korea works. In my perception of it at least. The hate you get being queer in Korea, never starts directly. They target your friends first. Then your family. Your dad getting a snide comment at work here, your mom getting disinvited from the women's neighborhood meet-up there, your brother getting weird looks... And then there's the state restrictions: gay/queer couples cannot adopt and there are no protections under the constitution. So yes, technically people are out and people can come out and live relatively normal lives, but the path is extremely complicated. For someone like an idol, I'd imagine even more so.

**

3 - I won't waste a lot of time on this since I already said quite a bit in point 1. The one thing I'll say is if there's one thing you need to note about this industry, it's this: k-pop is so insanely competitive, people are so ridiculously wicked and psychotic that anybody who has dirt on you won't hesitate to use it at the first opportune moment. (You in this case being an idol/group.) Like, any 'tea' that's worthwhile gets spilled before long given the churn rate in the industry. And this is true to a large extent for companies too. For example, I don't think BigHit/HYBE is all that different from other k-pop agencies in this industry, but I do think they are in many ways better because if they were just as bad or worse than other agencies, we would've seen the paperwork by now. We would've seen the lawsuits, the weeping idols, the 'disgruntled staff' blinds (SM is notorious for being so good at this one), we would've seen that mess by now. Because many people don't hesitate to walk, especially in the case of abuse. Also, there is a very real limit to what even Korean people can know if they're outside the team's inner circle. Usually what counts as 'tea' is sightings and schedules, which if not illegal isn't damning in the least. But there are other kinds of 'tea' that's clearly malicious, but oftentimes that sort of hit is contracted. For example, things like the targeted attack Jimin faced regarding his missed insurance payments, myself and a few friends believe that was 'contracted hate'. Something that's unfortunately not uncommon in the industry.

**

K-ARMYs / k-jikookers are very similar in behaviour to i-jikookers, just more intense, usually / in my experience (including myself). So weigh their words/actions accordingly.

[reflections-in-a-critical-eye]

I find myself questioning why I'm still bothered and how I let it get to me the lack of nuance in fandom discourse. Especially with K-Pop and everything I've witnessed in the last 3 years. The bigger the fandom, the less chances for it to be cohesive and attract a specific demographic able to participate in a certain high level of discourse.

I remember a few years back I was lurking in the Black Sails community here on tumblr. I was usually someone who would read the weekly reviews to tv episodes and that would be enough. In the case of that series, it didn't feel enough because to me, the reviewers were missing or ignoring the complexity of that show. And to my surprise (although it shouldn't), the fandom on tumblr was one of the best I had the chance to observe. There was dedication, yes, but more than that, smart people were writing these amazing essays and analysis worth of getting published in established journals. Well beyond a simple review. They were media literate, which is something that gets lost more and more as time passes.

Of course I don't expect that same thing in a fandom like Army. They can barely be compared. Army is way, way larger. It covers a wide demographic which is good and bad simultaneously. Theoretically, there's a place for everyone, regardless of their identity/background. So in cases like that, people tend to choose their own corner, subsection depending on where they fit and their interest. Perhaps a teenager is more likely to spend time on tiktok making edits and looking at clips, without following each and every type of content out there. Because they don't have to. Fans using weverse are also their own category that exhibit a specific type of mentality. Twitter and tumblr are places that offer the platform for a more discussion-type of engagement, with twitter taking the first place.

So, we find our community and that's supposed to allow fans to live in harmony. I know, funny. It's never like that because we like to peak and invite ourselves in other spaces. And the places can easily become echo chambers. But what is interesting to note is observing what the fandom deems as an echo chamber. A solo stan account or a shipper is an echo chamber, but an account focused on the group as a whole and only their achievements and updates is not. It doesn't matter that the user feigns ignorance when confronted with weird hashtags trending because they had no idea. They curate their experience. It's perfectly valid, but the danger of creating/becoming part of echo chambers happens to all of us, regardless of our type of engagement. The longer we sit comfortably in our corner, talking to people who are of the same opinion as ours, the greater the risk.

Nevertheless, there is still this need of showing one's superiority based on the type of subsection of the fandom we are part of. Which automatically fails because it shows our ignorance and getting to what I wanted to talk about, the incapability of engaging in a nuanced discussion. Of course this is not something that we should expect from everyone. Like I said, we need to know our "audience". I won't go to the weverse/IG pages wanting to talk about Asian fetishization in kpop fandoms. It would be pointless. But we do touch on those types of topics on twitter and tumblr. Which is why I don't find it completely absurd to have expectations.

Shipping within the fandom has once again been under fire today, more than usual. And it showed, as each and every time, that there is simply no bridge, no way of finding a common language, of willingness to have that nuanced conversation without resorting to generalized statements. The result of that usually creates more harm, divides the communities even more and sweeps under the rug the normalization of a specific type of shippers who transform mentions of sexual assault into a weapon to attack and offend. As serious as this is for people who are not online 24/7 in fandoms, it has indeed become the norm for those who are part of it. So then why we ignore it? Why do we generalize it instead of addressing the exact person or community who does it regularly? Because it's the crazy part of the fandom and those who are not part of it consider themselves to be better than others. Feeling superior is the ultimate goal. In a fandom of millions, we all try to differentiate ourselves in one way or another. And that leads to our fandom identity and automatically our position towards issues within the larger community. Being for or against, wanting to engage or not, is sending a message. It's always more about us than the people or content we talk about.

I know I haven't touched on 1% of what this topic should cover, but these are just some thoughts. We can't all be the smartest and better than everyone else when we are completely fixated in some beliefs that come to exist based on how much we want to use our intelectual abilities or simply refuse to.

[dearweirdme]

I do wonder if JK does this freely aka feeding into this ship or if the company holds something over him? This Jimin x Jungkook focus is so blatant at this point - against them not spending time away from content nor having the best friendship / chemistry. Yet it gets pushed so much. I rather would like to see the fan service being shaken up a bit tbh - give me Yoongi and Tae on the hunt for the best restaurant in Seoul or Namjoon and Jungkook reconnecting on a champing trip post military. Or any 7 content? It’s what the fans want the most tbh

Why the constant push of a two pair content that a) many believe they are dating and b) aren’t even the closest out of all the pairs and c) could never match the entertainment, depth or chemistry of 7 nor many other possible BTS duos???

I see so many extreme opinions: JK is forced and unhappy, JK isn’t a good partner to Tae when he plays into it so heavily bla bla it’s very black and white. I need a level headed opinion haha

Hi anon!

Oh, I just think he sees this as work. I don’t even think he has felt similar about each AYS part they did. Ays New York he was sick and very busy and that shone through. During Jeju he seemed in better spirits and I think in Sapporro his mind wasn’t totally at it at times. While working we have days we feel are more fun and days we dislike. It’s all work though and even the parts we don’t enjoy as much have to be taken care of.

What Jk and Jm know is that their names trended because of AYS. I doubt they go very deep into fan discussions and I don’t think they live with shipper discourse in their minds the way we do.

They’re at a vulnerable time right now. Just out of the army, probably nervous about fandom’s reaction to them. AYS is safe, they know it will do well. Perhaps they feel this is a nice way to get back into things.

[jiinjiinjarra]

[220331 Jungkook’s Instagram Stories] - Q & A

— #1

🐰: I’m so bored.

— #2

💜: Did you wake up early?Or haven’t slept yet??

🐰: I WOKE UP AT 7 A.M.

— #3

💜: Please say a word in spanish. Greetings from Argentina 🇦🇷💜

🐰: HOLA!

— #4

🐰: SHOULD I DO V LIVE TODAY?

— #5

🐰: lets play…(*written cutely) (1st Question)

— #6

💜: Hello, hey, how are you doing today/spending the day today (:

🐰[video]: this is how i’ve been doing/spending the day

— #7

💜: hmm..what’s today’s tmi??

🐰[video]: today’s tmi..uhh..it’s so hot and i’m bored and…ah is it not a tmi that i’m bored?? Ahh..

— #8

💜: what are you going to do today?

🐰[video]: today..what am i going to do?today i couldn’t think of anything i wanted to do in particular, so i came here again. Today [my] energy is a little/slightly low energy..

— #9

💜: afternoon(day) vs night

🐰[video]: for me..i like night

— #10

💜: oppa what are you doing??

🐰[video]: yeah/right. Lets do that. Lets do balance game, balance game. Please throw me some questions. I’m bored!!

— #11

🐰: Let’s play the balance game. (2nd Question)

— #12

💜: not be able to work out for 1 month vs not be able to sing for 1 month

🐰[video]:  ah still, since i’m a singer…heh..not be able to work out for 1 month

— #13

💜: sweet vs spicy

🐰[video]: sweeet

— #14

💜: soju vs beer

🐰[video]: for me, i like beer more

— #15

💜: choco(late) vs vanilla

🐰[video]: this is so hard. This..ha..i think i like vanilla more

— #16

💜: sunrise or sunset??

🐰[video]:  for sunrise..because i can’t see it even if i want to see it, i’ll go with sunset

— #17

💜: right now, fire and ice fight

🐰[video]: for me..(eng) ice! (Kor) ice!

— #18

💜: boxing vs game?

🐰[video]: these days, games aren’t that fun, so..ah, no, its not that its not fun, but i don’t do/play them a lot, so i’ll go with boxing. Boxing

— #19

💜: what do you like? Me vs me.

🐰[video]: what i like? You, you. You, you, (eng) you

— #20

💜: day or night

🐰[video]: my hair suddenly became a mess..me, night!

— #21

💜: army [helps] pull/peel off a perilla leaf for a different idol vs a different idol pulls/peels off a perilla lead for army (*it was a popular dispute/discourse i explained in the thread in qrt)

🐰[video]: lets just not eat perilla leaves eh?

— #22

💜: dance vs sing

🐰[video]: these days, honestly, dancing is more fun than singing but still..when i look at it as a whole/overall, i think its singing. (Eng) sing~

— #23

💜: blue or blsck

🐰[video]: that right now is black (*referring to typo), right? Uhh for me..hmm..these days, i like blue. Blue~

— #24

💜: if you were to be born again, live as BTS vs live as ARMY

🐰[video]: for this, the answer is already decided on. Even if i’m born again, because i have to be born as BTS to be able to see you all, i will live as BTS again.

— #25

💜: summer vs winter??

🐰[video]: winter! Even right now, its so hot. Really..sweat..just now, even though i just moved around a little, my sweat exploded/i sweated a lot, so winter!!winter is going now..i’m doomed..

— #26

💜: rain or sun

🐰[video]: i like when it rains…rain~

— #27

💜: horror movie vs romantic movie

🐰: for me, romantic movie! Romantic~

— #28

💜: pork belly vs galbi/ribs

🐰[video]: without a question/no matter what, pork belly

— #29

💜: na heedo vs ko yurim (*characters in  25 21)

🐰[video]: me?for me..uh..baek yijin

— #30

💜: kageyama or shoyo

🐰[video]: ah..it’s hard..this..for me..ah..kageyama?

— #31

💜: you can’t eat pizza vs you can’t have banana milk

🐰[video]: for me, i can live without eating pizza but because i can’t live without eating/drinking banana milk..uhh.. i will choose the one where i can’t eat pizza

— #32

💜: lights on vs lights off

🐰[video]: lights off

— #33

💜: mint choco flavor vs chocolate ramen

🐰[video]: what..the question is very weird/strange. So it’s/you’re asking if mint choco is better or if chocolate ramen is better, right? Mincho (mint choco) is better. I like mincho

— #34

💜: bright hair color vs dark hair color

🐰[video]: dark hair color

— #35

💜: i like you vs i love you

🐰[video]: 사랑해/saranghae (i love you)

— #36

💜: between being able to talk to animals and being able to speak all foreign languages, which do you like more?

🐰[video]: i will choose being able to talk to animals

— #37

💜: cherry blossoms 🌸 vs fall foliage/autumn colors🍁

🐰[video]: cherry blossoms

— #38

💜: go back to the past or go to the future😘

🐰[video]: ill go back to the past

— #39

💜: coffee or tea

🐰[video]: coffeeee

— #40

💜:  i love you vs i purple you

🐰[video]: purple you!

— #41

💜: order deliver vs go out and eat

🐰[video]: i really want to go out and eat

— #42

💜: 🏓 vs🏸

🐰[video]: badminton

— #43

💜: soda or milk

🐰[video]: milk

— #44

💜: bibimbap vs gimbap

🐰[video]: gimbap!

— #45

💜: backstage and on stage

🐰[video]: ah this is without a doubt/no matter what, on stage

— #47

💜: beach vs mountain

🐰[video]: i like the sea

— #48

💜: running vs jump rope

🐰[video]: run run run

— #49

💜: i don’t have ideas

🐰[video]: right now, the questions that are coming [in] are really, i’m not lying, really they’re all similar. Theyre almost the same. What should i do with this?could you please give me something new/novel/creative?really..something funny

— #50

💜: kombucha vs soju💜

🐰[video]: soooojuuu

— #51

💜: Texting 💬 or talking on the phone📞?(i love you!!💜)

🐰[video]: talking on the phone🎶

— #52

💜: if you were to have superpowers? Tears turn into diamonds vs urine turns into gold

🐰[video]: this is without a doubt ‘tears turn into diamond’. I just have to cry tears of joy, right? I would cry every day with this. While drinking water, I’m gonna/would cry every day

— #53

💜: pull ups vs push ups

🐰[video]: pull up

— #54

💜: BUTTER OR DYNAMITE

🐰[video]: smooth like butter

(I think he was singing this like the comedians on yt who act like older men in a hiking club; see qrt)

— #55

💜: 5 years old V or 70 years old V?

🐰: 5 years old V or 70 years old V..oh..oh..for me, 5 years old V

— #56

💜: f you were to be born again, [do you want to be born with] a face you want vs (body) figure/form you want

🐰[video]: oh..for me…(body) figure i want

— #57

💜: space travel vs undersea/underwater travel

🐰[video]: hmm..uh..i really want to try both. But still, space travel?

— #58

💜: not showering for the rest of your life vs not cleaning for the rest of your life

🐰[video]: or me, because i can’t live without showering, i’ll go with not cleaning for the rest of my life

— #60

💜: business proposal vs 25 21

🐰[video]: wow..this is really hard right? For me..business five, proposal one (*he combined the two titles to avoid giving one answer)

— #61

💜: fly vs teleport

🐰[video]: wow..i dreamt a dream and it was dream where i was flying. It was a dream where i was really, very much freely flying and i was really really happy. Uh so/that’s why i’ll go with teleport!

— #62

💜: pour (the sauce onto the food) and eat vs dip (the food into the sauce) and eat* (explained in next tweet)

🐰[video]: for me..i’m team dip and eat

— #63

💜: change or city?

🐰[video]: change or city! Woah this..hmm..so, first of all, to have the authority to change is something really good, right? Then i’ll go with change. I don’t know what it means but yeah

— #64

💜: angry hobi vs angry jimin

🐰[video]: angry hobi hyung vs angry jiminie hyung. If i were to choose which is better?Uhh….ha…..ha..

— #65

💜: long hair vs short hair

🐰[video]: for me, i’ll go with long hair

— #66

💜: aurora vs star

🐰[video]: I haven’t seen an aurora in person/in real life but uhh i want to see an aurora. Aurora!

— #67

💜: [eating] 5 keonbbangs in 1 minute possible? Impossible? [keonbbangs are biscuit like snacks and they make your mouth pretty dry so it would be hard to ear 5 in a min)

🐰[video]: impossible

— #68

💜: kimchi stew vs soybean paste stew

🐰[video]: his..for me, it doesnt matter as long as theres meat in it..soybean paste stew! No! Ah uh uhh soybean paste stew!

— #69

💜: time travel vs freeze time

🐰[video]: this..uhh..from time to time, there are times i think it would be nice if time stopped/froze. When im really tired. When i want to sleep a bit. So, i will choose freeze time

— #70

💜: tteokbokki vs oden(fishcake)

🐰[video]: uhh..i like both but tteokbokki more than fishcakes. tteokbokki! I like it more

— #71

💜: bang sihyuk pd nim vs sihyuk hyung go go go

🐰[video]: ah this…ah…sihyukie hyung!

— #72

💜: my time vs euphoria

🐰[video]: euphoria~

— #73

💜: become a ceo/president of an agency and make bang sihyuk an idol vs just stay still/as is(not do anything)

🐰[video]: i don’t know/am not sure what it is but just stay still/as is..

— #74

💜: positive or negative?

🐰[video]: positive

— #75

💜: alcohol vs milk

🐰[video]: uhh..this..i really like milk. But because i also can’t give up alcohol, i’ll go with alcohol

— #76

💜: delivery food vs cooking and eating

🐰[video]: cooking and eating!

— #77

💜: sleep for a day vs eat for a day (won’t gain weight)

🐰[video]: ah this is without a doubt ‘eat for a day’. If i won’t gain weight, for this, i have to eat no matter what. There are so many delicious things in the world [to not choose ‘eat for a day’]

— #78

💜: antique vs latest/modern

🐰[video]: as i’m a person that always pursues the modern/latest [style/things], i’ll go with modern

— #79

💜: air conditioner in Antarctica vs heater in a desert

🐰[video]: because i really don’t like it being hot/hot weather, air conditioner in Antarctica

— #80

💜: lets laugh/smile

🐰[video]: eutcha (he read ootja (lets laugh/smile) as eutcha (���챠) which is the sound people make when we lift heavy things/muster strength)

— #81

💜: this is difficult … do you want namjoons brain vs jin’s shoulders?😲

🐰[video]: i will choose namjoonie hyung’s brain (eng) namjoon’s brain!

— #82

💜: titanic vs twilight

🐰[video]: titanic

— #83

💜: answer as fast as you can/as soon as possible!!!!! You can’t eat ramen again vs you can’t eat meat?☹️☹️

🐰[video]: i…uh..i’ll give up ramen

— #84

🐰: THE END

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

BTS // Social Media // Instagram // jungkook.97 // stories // 220331 // 2022

date: 2022-03-31

Cr. jungkook.97 // Source: "trust me bro" - Jungkook has deleted his account on Instagram (Archive Cr. btsbaragi_jk) // Translation Cr. btsbaragi_jk