#btw this is in regards to endgame and infinity war

[agentoffangirling]

"Biggest Marvel crossover" and they don't even include the TV characters 😔

[quinnhayden]

man i’m lucky not all my story playlists on spotify aren’t public yet because y’all would be getting some serious spoilers otherwise

[uhthor]

are you anti tony stark (i'm pretty neutral on him)i just wanted to know your opinion??

i like your content btw <3

hello, i’m sorry i forgot to answer this!

i am indeed anti tony stark. i’ve answered an ask about this before which goes into more detail so you can see my full opinions here but overall.... i cannot stand that man. he’s arrogant, rude and constantly harms other characters at his own expense (see peter parker MULTIPLE times). he’s the source of almost half the villains in the mcu (does that not tell you something alarming?) and i just think his character became irredeemable after civil war (his treatment of bucky, sam, peter, wanda (even though i don’t like her anyway) and steve is just..... so fucked). he’s got no regard for anyone else’s feelings — specifically, something that you can imagine is very close to my heart, bruce, who he treats like shit (see infinity war when bruce re-enters earth. for stans who constantly talk about how tony has suffered and deserves rest and is traumatised etc. theyre real quiet when he’s ignoring all of that in other characters for his own gain or at the expense of a joke. it will NEVER sit right with me.).

something i didn’t mention in my og post is one of my biggest peeves with him is in endgame when he literally considers NOT bringing back half of the universe because it inconveniences him. pepper has to convince him? like come on dude how are we supposed to root for this character? the avengers have always been about trying to make things right and this mf just gives up for five years. it just don’t sit right with me.

i used to tolerate him but i’m just so actively against him now and i’m sorry to any of my followers that like him. i’ll just never be able to root for a character who is inferred (and explicitly) to be so villainous.

also, thank you for saying you like my content, that means a lot! <3

[soyouareandrewdobson]

Marvel’s Dobson: Infinity PTSD

In case you wonder why I personally think Dobson is an idiot, here is one (of many) reason(s): Dobson takes the wrong things way more serious than he should.

 On one hand, he will belittle people e.g. to think about the new Pokemon starters more than about current events in real life…

But then he will also throw fits at something like a silly add slogan by Burger King, calling it sexist crap and that the company should be ashamed of it.

 Belittle lesbian teenagers for not taking “KorraSami” as something serious and progressive as he does…

Or in case of Marvels “Infinity War”, believe that the movies ending would be ptsd inducing.

I am not kidding. What you see here is a tumblr post Dobson made up shortly after he watched Infinity War in May of 2018, making it known that he is scared that the movie could be traumatic for people on a global scale.

Which was laughable back then and is even more so in the year 2021, when we actually go through a global trauma in form of Covid-19. Making me also believe, that Dobson, despite claims of suffering from depression and his own form of PTSD, has absolutely no idea what a trauma really is and that despite all his whining over the years, he must have one of the most privileged and easiest lives on the planet, if he thinks a superhero movie is going to be as traumatizing as certain real world events. At least the way the post is worded implies, that Dobson seriously believes seeing Spiderman and other Marvel heroes bite the dust (so to speak) has the same effect as e.g. witnessing 9/11 play out live or being involved in an actual war.

Don’t get me wrong, I know of the reactions people had at Infinity War and the infamous Snap scene. I myself was in a theater where a bunch of kids started to cry when Starlord died. And I do understand that reaction. Because unlike Dobson, I am not just using my brain to whine about things not pandering to my fetishes.

I know, that the MCU and its characters have grown on people over the years, myself included. So when we as an audience watch the world and characters we care about get destroyed as Thanos does to Knowhere, Gamora and so many more, we have an emotional reaction to it. I myself was not distraught, but genuinely surprised that when Thanos snapped his fingers, as many heroes died as we saw on screen. Sure, knowing the comics and that Infinity War was just part one of a two part Avengers Finale of phase 3, I knew the snap would happen. In fact, I even hoped for it to happen, cause I love badass villain moments and Thanos was a favorite of mine long before the movie. Not because I am a space fascist, but because I enjoy threatening villains and stakes in my stories, unlike certain people.

I just didn’t expect that after all the hype Marvel created for certain heroes over phase 2 and 3, especially Black Panther, they would do something as “radical” and kill as good as 95% of all heroes introduced in phase 2 and 3 off. Wakanda forever? Not according to this movie.

But I digress. Point is, I will give Dobson the following: Yes, the movie’s ending has obviously caused people to have a sad emotional reaction to it, because at the end of the day, we will react with sadness when we see someone we care about die. But guess what: So have many other movies over the course of cinematic history.

 Do I really need to remind people (and by people I mean braindead idiots) of stuff like Jack dying at the end of Titanic and watching the ship sink, Mufasa being thrown off a cliff, that one horse from Never Ending Story in the swamp, certain scenes of “Who framed Roger Rabbit”, that scene of the dog put down in “Marley and &Me” and so on? You know, stuff most of us remember as having watched in our childhood only for us as adults to joke how this shit traumatized us?

Okay, it may have at least to some degree in so far as that we remember those movies in parts because of those scenes. I think there have been a few kids not wanting to go into the water to swim for quite some time after watching Jaws. But guess what: Most people get over stuff like that, because somewhere down the line they realize it is just a movie or that those sad/scary parts are actually in their own way “fun”/good and helped us appreciate the story we watched even more. And all Infinity War is, is just another movie in a long line of such flics, while also being the culmination of a decade long multipart movie project by Disney to get the most profits out of superhero movies possible.

Furthermore, I doubt there is or ever was going to be everlasting damage, seeing how “Endgame” was going to happen anyway and has been out for almost two years. Meaning all the “drama” of Infinity War in 2018? Dealt with. All the people that turned into dust are alive again and well thanks to the Dragon Balls- I mean Infinity Stones, which is more than can e.g. be said about Bambi’s mom. So if your kid starts crying because Thanos won when you let them watch Infinity War? Make sure to put Endgame in almost immediately to show them their heroes are not dead. Just hope the kid is not a fan of Iron Man or Black Widow, cause they are the only superheroes of the bunch who are going to join Old Yeller and Co in the everlasting realm of fictional character deaths to “fuck up” your kids.

Which btw is the other thing worth pointing out: See, I can imagine kids having the most negative reaction to watching the Snap play out. Because most kids will not know as many media as adults and are on average not exposed to as much violence or “traumatic” events in the stuff they watch/consume or in real life (hopefully). And lets face it, Infinity War has some “brutal” scenes in it. Thanos choking Loki, Thanos getting stabbed, Thanos getting an axe in his torso, Thanos throwing Gamora of the cliff, everyone getting blown with the wind etc.

But the way Dobson words it, he believes that adults too will react to it negatively, to the point they may need therapy. To which I say, no. If most children can deal with Infinity War, so will even more adults. Personally I think the only person “traumatized” by Infinity War was Dobson himself, because if his history in regard of movies and media he consumes is any indication, he is a pantsy who likely pisses his knickers at animated Halloween specials despite being now almost 40.

Even others called him out on it, but Dobson, the manchild that he is can’t acknowledge that he may have overreacted to it and still believes this movie is a horrifically traumatic experience, based on some youtubers overreacting for the sake of clicks.

Last but not least, where was that kind of reaction by Dobson when Man of Steel came out? You know, the movie where the fight scenes in Metropolis were actually called out by many people in the media of being triggering for people who experienced 9/11.

Seriously though, if Dobson thinks Infinity War’s ending is traumatizing, I just have to ask the following things:

a) how many mainstream western comics has he actually ever bothered to read, cause on average even worse shit can happen in them to heroes than seen in Infinity War (just ask people who read “Cry for Justice”)

b) if Infinity War is already that traumatizing for you, how did you expect to ever be a decent story creator yourself, cause obviously you can’t see characters actually suffer? Except of course when they are straight males abused by redhead pirates.

c) Just as a personal opinion: Better turn into dust than to be inflated and popped, Catty!

[ishouldreallybeelsewhere]

okay so that loki video essay thing was going well, and then like a day into writing it i lost the hyperfixation so it's never gonna be finished. i still think it's alright, completely unedited, entirely a train of thought, i hope you like commas and pacific rim, it's only 2.8k

btw if something doesn't make sense, i was writing this while watching some video essays, and also haven't read it

Introduction

Loki is a show, well you know that, but a show that does everything right, until it doesn’t (crazy, I know). If you’re here, I assume you’ll already know a fair bit about it, but if you don’t, here’s a quick refresher. Spoilers for everything MCU.

Loki begins in 2012, technically, just after the Avengers go back through time from Endgame to meet themselves and grab the infinity stones. Unfortunately, the plan goes awri, and Loki ends up in possession of the Tesseract, the mind stone. With this, he teleports to a desert in [a place] and is quickly arrested and apprehended by the Time Keepers for ‘Crimes Against the Sacred Timeline.’ Sounds a bit cult-y if you ask me, and given that you’re stuck here, you will ask me. Essentially, his actions (taking the tesseract) were not supposed to happen. They created a branch, a new timeline, and, according to the TVA, if left unchecked, the timeline could cause a multiversal war that would result in the end of time. This is, to put it simply, a very interesting premise, and the first two episodes do a wonderful job of exploring the TVA and searching for the mysterious Loki variant who causes chaos and mischief, all while evading the time cops.

What is the TVA? Well, it’s the Time Variance Authority, which clears up nothing to those who haven’t seen the show. I would let a clip explaining it play, but I think I’d get a copyright strike, even though I’m fairly sure it’s within fair use. Regardless, the TVA is an organisation supposedly created by the Time Keepers, space lizards who brought together all of time into a singular sacred timeline. Had they not done this, time itself would have ended, how they did this is unexplained, and likely either impossible, or they are greater than gods in their power. Loki is immediately doubtful, but can’t deny that they must hold some power, because not only does his magic not work in the TVA, but infinity stones are useless too. Time is also stranger there too, more an idea as opposed to a set part of their reality. Many theorise that they reside within the quantum realm, which makes sense, as that is how one travels through time, at least in the marvel universe, but we can’t be sure until we get an explanation. Of course, I’m writing this long before I’ll see the finale, so who knows, perhaps I’ll have to rewrite it.

Now I’ve said all that without explaining what the TVA actually does. It’s pretty simple, similar to Stephen Hawking’s (???) ideas of the multiverse, every decision you make has the ability to make another timeline, one that is not part of the sacred way of time, and therefore must be pruned by the TVA before it grows enough to cause another multiversal war, despite multiverses being well-established in the MCU, but I know that’s different. Or perhaps the Time Keepers are lying (spoiler, they are, just not exactly in that way). Anyway, when someone makes a decision or takes an action that creates a new timeline, the TVA arrives. Minutemen arrest the ‘Variant’ responsible, despite their lack of intentional crime, and prune the new timeline, which we are told destroys it. Then Variants must stand trial for their crimes, in which they can either plead guilty or not, but really, that doesn’t make much difference, as they’re unable to make a case, let alone get away as innocent. Before they reach the court, however, Variants are dressed in TVA jumpsuits, have to sign off every word they’ve ever said, and a snapshot of their temporal aura is taken, for some reason. Yeah, it’s not really ever explained why they have to go through all that, like, why don’t they just prune them all, or just send them straight to court. It seems like they’re putting on a big show for nothing. Of course, if you have to go through all that, you probably won’t have time to think about the whys of your situation, which I’m sure the TVA uses to their advantage.

Now, we’re heading into real spoiler-y stuff, just in case anyone here hasn't watched episode three. If you haven’t, why are you here? Go, finish the whole series, and then come back. Alrighty. Now that everyone’s seen it all (apart from me at this point) we can continue.

Everyone working at the TVA is a Variant, and they don’t know it. The Time Keepers are said to have created everything within the TVA, every analyst, Minuteman, and whatever the other roles are. But that’s not true. They’re all variants who’ve been taken from their own timelines and had their memories wiped. This gives an explanation for the courtrooms, and the process to get into them. Robots will be melted from the inside out if they go through the temporal aura machine thingy, and I have a feeling it’s harder to reset a robot’s memories. Living beings are let through, and their actions in the courtroom could give a good overview of their strengths and intelligence, so it can be decided whether they’ll be pruned or ‘reset’ which we are told is killed, but with the information of them all being variants now available, is more likely having all their memories hidden, replaced with the idea that they’ve been at the TVA their whole lives, and that they were created by the timekeepers. Though why would space lizards create workers in the image of humans instead of like their own lizard-y selves. The TVA as a whole, as we are introduced to it, feels very cult-y. Things such as the videos Variants are shown upon being arrested, the whole ‘Sacred Timeline’ thing, the Time Keepers being viewed as almost gods, and that when one of the TVA’s own minutemen is told the truth (C-20) she is, well, removed. The TVA views Variants as criminals of the highest order. How dare they violate the sacred timeline?!!? Only, no variant knew that what they were doing was wrong, or that it even mattered, but if you’re late to work on a day where you weren’t supposed to be, then you’re removed from your timeline and charged. The sentence? Essentially death, or removal of all your memories and being lied to about everything, which might be worse depending on your stance on that kind of thing.

Anyway, the minutemen themselves are another issue that the TVA has. They respond with violence at every available opportunity, like when a young french child from the 1500s walks into a church, the first thing a minuteman does is reach for his weapon. This is also the scene where we’re introduced to my favourite character, Mobius, but more on him later. For now, I need to stay on track and keep in mind this part of the view has to remain consistent. All I can think of are the nerds I split. It seems I have an inability to stay on topic, however, I’m gonna try so you have fun keeping up with that.

Loki stood trial for crimes against the Sacred Timeline and, like any logical person may in that situation, relentlessly questions the validity of his conviction. The answers he’s provided with he just,, kind of,, disagrees with, which is fair. The concept of the TVA and the sacred timeline as a whole is absurd to him, as who would a god serve?

Part one: Glorious Purpose

Loki, in his own words, it ‘Burdened With Glorious Purpose.’ I’m so glad no one but me is gonna read this draft cuz I managed to spell many of those words wrong. His glorious purpose, in his eyes, is becoming the ruler of all, removing free will and choice from those beneath him, in a twisted attempt to make it easy for all living things. He believes in free will, at least, the free will of himself, and also believes that, out of everyone in the universe, he is the one who is right, the one who can make the world better, that is his burden. Now, you may look at that and think, ‘hey, for a god of mischief, that doesn’t seem very mischievous,’ and you’d be right. It isn’t. He’s evil, like, without a doubt, an evil person in his ideals and views of the universe, however, the change from mischief to villainy was rapid, as it’s shown that he was D.B. Cooper, and, when asked, said it was because he was ‘young and lost a bet to Thor’, which, like, okay, but that was the 60s or something. 50 years aren’t a lot in the face of 1,500, but a lot can happen then

Part something: ethics

So, as you’ve probably gathered by now, I’m a pretentious asshole, and with that comes three years of philosophy classes and a superiority complex, though perhaps that comes from the whole leftist thing. Anyway, as per usual, I got sidetracked. I’m watching a really good video atm, so lots of things are happening in my head right now. Back to being pretentious, I’m going to be talking about ethics, fun, and how that relates to the TVA, the sacred timeline, Kang, sorry, he who remains. Regarding the whole Kang thing, I haven’t read a single Marvel comic since I was a member of the comic book club 4(???) years ago. Gods, I’m so old. Yup Percy Jackson took up too much of my childhood. Sidetracked again! I apologise, anyway, everything I know about Kang the Conqueror comes from Tumblr, so I’m not going to spend any time talking about any parts of the character that aren’t shown in the show. I really want to be writing about Doctor Who right now but I have my notes up so I’m gonna do this. Okay, right. Ethics. I hope I don’t go into free will right now because I will never stop going on about that. Anyway, let's look at the TVA, ignoring Kang, not for simplicity, but to see if the ends do in fact justify the means as Mobius said. And by that I mean, if what employees of the TVA think is true, are their actions justified? Finally got to the point, after how many words? Too many, anyway, let’s start from the start (kinda).

In an actual, proper, organised essay, I think that whole last paragraph was supposed to be 1 (one) sentence long, maybe. I have been writing year nine level essays for many years, despite not being in year nine for many, many years, so, be glad you’re reading something I’m interested in. Back to the topic at hand, please. Sorry I just got distracted again. I shouldn’t have Tumblr open atm. Anyway, what are the TVA’s means? So, I’ve already explained what the TVA is, and what it does, but let’s use a fun example to show what they really do. Imagine you’re a kid (or maybe you are a kid, so imagine you’re a younger one) and you just got home from school. You just made an awesome new friend who believes in you and loves your art. This sparks your interest in art, leading to countless pieces, days and days spent drawing and painting and having a great time. Your art begins to take hold on the world, speaking to people, letting them believe in themselves, thousands upon thousands of people inspired to start their own art, to rebel against the system of capitalism and teach people that there’s more to life than a job. This begins the global radicalisation of the working class, and with that, rebellion and the downfall of capitalism. I’m in a good mood rn, feeling optimistic, so don’t worry about what’s happening. Anyway, with the downfall of human exploitation and eradication of poverty comes a branch in the Sacred Timeline, and as the root of it is you as a child making a friend, your 5-year-old self just committed a crime that, according to the TVA, is worthy of what they believe to be actual death, like, being pruned.

Now, this was a very umm, off-the-top-of-my-head example, and entirely makes no sense, but give me two seconds and I’ll remember my original point. Right. The risk of allowing the downfall of capitalism is the end of all time. Always. Maybe? But, in the eyes of the TVA, kidnapping a 5-year-old, putting them through a dehumanising process to be shoved in a courtroom and being accused of crimes against the sacred timeline, and what was the crime? Making a goddamn friend. As a child. Being supported in art. Doing what you enjoy, destroying oppressive systems that will eventually be the downfall of us all and so entwined with all the problems in the world that any chance of saving it revolves around its deconstruction. I’ve been hunched over too long and my back is really starting to hurt, but the essay must go on. And remember, the domino effect of that friendship never actually happened. The timeline was pruned before it could happen, so the crime is literally making a friend. Very extreme example sorry, but shock makes your point go across faster, and also sparks outrage, which I don’t want to happen, but with doing literally anything comes backlash, like stepping on the wrong leaf, or a butterfly. I hope you guys know that this is unplanned and probably unedited. Okay I need to watch Pacific Rim again. Okay imagine now they kill the child. Right. That’s likely what would happen. Children are weak (usually, Sylvie is just on another level of awesome) [author’s note, Crimson Peak is a horror movie and I’m very upset by that cuz now I won’t be able to watch it]. Alright, so, kill a child, or destroy all of time. Always. Maybe. The way we see the TVA in the first two episodes is through Loki’s eyes, as a cult-like lie with a cool retro/futuristic aesthetic (like Doctor Who, but more on that later). I have been sitting here for 4 hours and I can confidently say my cat is an asshole whose sole purpose in life is to want to come in right when I’m in the middle of a point only to not want to come in but allow me to lose exactly what I was about to say, meaning I’ve gotten next to nothing done. Hi, I'm back. I got distracted by My Little Pony and Pacific Rim. And checkers. Issues with pacing? I don’t know what you’re talking about.

Okay, so, I’m going to say something possibly controversial. When the stakes are the endings of the entirety of time, it’s okay to let a child die, and technically they might not die they’d just be sent to be either devoured the void or saved by a ragtag team of loki variants. Which is not great. That might sound like I agree with the TVA, but trust me, I do not. Not in the slightest. I hate the slimy bastards. (I do love every single character though, like all of them are awesome) The prickly pricks will bury us all!!! I don’t agree with them because I think there is a better way to handle the multiversal problem and the issue that arises regarding the particular cause of the multiversal war. That made no sense. You’re really just gonna have to guess at this point, however, for the solution, we must look into the finale and the reasoning behind He Who Remains’ plan. I said I wasn’t going to talk about him, but I lied (rule number one). Basically, from what I understood of his plan (which wasn’t much, I’m pretty stupid) was that there were two options; option number one was to leave him there, looking over all of time, preventing free will, so that the infinite variants of him that would come from timelines wouldn’t once again attempt to conquer all of the timelines (though if there are infinite ones, how would that work? Just kidding, you’re not allowed to question this). He dictates all. There’s no such thing as free will, and if you dare veer off the path, you will be pruned, and your timeline destroyed. His plan is to hand that power over to Loki and Sylvie, because he’s getting old and has lived long enough. The other option (and the one that’s taken in the show) is to allow Sylvie to kill He Who Remains and let the multiverse unfold, allow free will and chaos to reign, with the possibility and established likelihood of the destruction of time itself. Now, just putting this out here, what if there was a third option? My proposition is based of knowing next to nothing and not having seen Loki in a while, and that is,

[hellzyeahthewebwieldingavenger]

Oooooookay a bit to unpack here.

First of all let’s get something crystal clear. This is not truly confirmed beyond doubt just yet and sources are conflicted over what this stand off is even about. From what I’ve encountered it’s about Disney and Sony going in 50/50 which was not the arrangement in earlier films (I think Sony got all or the lion’s share, at least on the solo Spidey movies). Other sources say it was just a credit issue.

I’m inclined towards the former.

IF it is true this would mean there will be another unresolved MCU movie subplot, like with Incredible Hulk, but much more substantial. Now the good news about that is that it isn’t something that the MCU in general hinged on. Like the cliffhanger affected Spider-Man and his cast and no one else. I mean arguably Happy and Pepper, but the former was essentially absorbed into the Spider-Man cast and the latter was more than likely retired after Endgame. It will be the SECOND iteration of Spidey on film though to end with an unresolved plotline (Spidey media has a habit of this, remember the end of Spider-Man 1994 or Spec Spidey?).

Allegedly according to this article 2 more Spidey movies were in development with Watts involved with at least one of those. Speculating here but possibly they might’ve been pulling an Infinity War/Endgame thing. That would actually have been a storywise good way to have given weight to the ramifications of Peter’s identity being exposed before it (very likely) would’ve gone back into the bag, and it would’ve allowed a lot of space for a potential Sinister Six storyline. After all if you go by the MCU technically there are 6 Spidey villains around already (Vulture, Scorpion, Shocker, Tinkerer, Mysterio and Chameleon). But you’d need to give Scorpion and Chameleon powers, reintroduce the other guys and let’s be honest they would never use Tinkerer seriously, they’d sub him for another more formidable foe like Doc Ock or Kraven or someone like that.

We do not know the specifics of the original Disney/Sony deal nor what was on the cards for this one, so it’s not impossible (but I’d guess highly likely) that the ending of their relationship also means Marvel wouldn’t get to use other Spider-Man characters in other movies. So that Norman Osborn showing up in a Dark Avengers movie that was very likely on the cards? That’s very unlikely to happen now if the break up is real.

As for my own views...I regard this as at worst a lesser evil.

I’m no fan of the Marc Webb movies and they dealt damage to the brand and to the character on film in general. But the worst thing they did was lead to the Marvel/Sony deal which, whilst technically helping out public opinion on Spider-Man, damaged the integrity of the character and mythos yet more.

I don’t need to go into details for you (just read my Homecoming and Far From Home reviews) but suffice it to say that the MCU adapted Spider-Man in the most insultingly superficial of ways.

MCU Spider-Man looked like comic book Peter Parker, had a costume heavily resembling his, had his powers, lived in Queens, went to a school with ‘Midtown’ in it’s name, had an aunt named May, a love interest called Liz Allan, another love interest nicknamed ‘MJ’, was a member of the Avengers and had a father-son relationship with Iron Man/Tony Stark who gave him a high tech suit.

And with absolutely 0 hyperbole, that is where the similarities end. Even then the similarities are very much in the letter not the spirit. The nature of Peter’s Avengers membership, what it meant to him, how he got it and so on was fundamentally different. The nature of his relationship with Iron Man (which was idiotic in the comics too btw) was fundamentally different. I could go on but you get the picture.

It is a version of Spider-Man is utterly devoid of the substance that defines the character, so utterly missing the point  in fact that he literally could be an original character if you changed those superficial details and lose next to nothing storywise.

I give the Webb movies a lot of shit, and it is not unearned, but although they were problematic Spider-Man movies...at least they WERE Spider-Man movies. Not movies effectively pretending  to be about Spider-Man rather than Iron Man Junior.

Of course this opens up a debate about what is more important, being a respectful adaptation or a just a generally good movie regardless of fealty to the source material.

Frankly that’s a talk for another day.

But what’s most important to my personal enjoyment  of these movies is most definitely the former over the latter.

Don’t get it twisted, I want BOTH. I’ve seen Spider-Man 2002 and Spider-Man 2 too many times to count, whilst I’ve seen Spider-Man 3 maybe 4 times, ASM 2012 maybe 3 times and ASM2 like twice, I wouldn’t even bother to watch it on Netflix.

And I’m not calling any of them perfect adaptations, but Jesus Christ they got more right than the MCU films ever did. At least Raimi and Webb were presenting interpretations of Peter Parker rather than an hybrid abomination of Miles Morales/Robin/Ultimate cartoon Peter Parker/Ultimate Comics Peter Parker/616Peter Parker (in that order).

For the record I REJECT the notion that making a respectful adaptation or a good movie are mutually exclusive. Spider-Man 2002 and Spider-Man 2 were both. Batman Mask of the Phantasm, Batman Begins and the Dark Knight were both. Superman 1978 and Superman II were both. Captain America the First Avenger, Winter Soldier, Civil War and Avengers 2012 were both.

I has been done and it can be done.

My high ball hopes for this is that Sony will look to Lord and Miller’s fine work and take notes.

Low ball hopes, more movies of at least Webb’s quality.

P.S. The fact that Watts was involved with MCU Spidey 3 fills me with dread. If that movie is dead then thank God.

P.P.S. 

[redspiderling]

Just like Endgame had to deal with Gamora’s sacrifice at least to a certain degree, the Black Widow film has to deal with Natasha’s.

Let’s cut to the chase. Directors/Writers comments aside (which, btw, are not canon in any way, shape, or form, they’ve taken things back multiple times), Endgame didn’t deal with Natasha’s death. At all. I’m not going to go off on how her sacrifice made sense, or if it was a good decision (it wasn’t), because we’ll be here all day, the point is, a main character has died and her arc hasn’t been completed, and her death hasn’t been addressed.

Given that as far as MCU canon is concerned, there is at least 1 reference to a dimension regarding the Soul Stone (when Thanos visited Gamora after the end of Infinity War), it’s only logical to assume Natasha is there. Why else would the Stone ask for a soul, if not to keep it?

As such, the Black Widow film can’t just ignore THAT. It will be addressed. I don’t know, if they’ll have Natasha deal with her past while in the Soul Dimension, or if she will travel to alt timelines, but the film will address 2023 Natasha’s state for at least 2 obvious reasons:

1) Because it’s the only way to conclude her arc.

2) Because this is Natasha’s story and as such, Natasha needs to be the one that tells it. And not just any Natasha, canon Natasha.

Having said that, I’m not saying Natasha will just be brought back to life no harm, no foul. I’m saying she won’t be conventionally “dead” for the film.

P.S. There are many ways she can keep on living without actually having to be an active MCU hero.

[calzonekestis]

My Endgame thoughts in 3,160 words and 17,025 characters. Under a cut. Spoilers, obviously.

Really. Truly. The whole thing.

Well. I texted a friend as soon as I got out, and I told him “that was a very good movie peppered with lots of shit that I didn’t care for at all.”

I don’t know what I think about it. If it was good or bad. If I like it or not.

If you read spoilers but didn’t see it, and we’re mad, I get that. I was mad too. I wrote most of this last night, and I’ve had to go back and amend it.

Also, please check your Tony vs Steve bs at the door. I like them both to varying degrees. That said I take issue with Steve’s choices and characterization at the end. We’ll get to that.

The Tony fans at least can say their boy saved the universe. They’re going to be mad still, but at least he went out in the best way possible if he had to die. Which he didn’t, but... we’ll get to that too.

The people who will be mad the most? Cap fans. Sharon Carter fans. Black Widow fans. Thor fans. Iron Man fans, probably, won’t be mad so much as sad. Actually, no, mad, because they probably wanted a happy ending for him.

So yeah. Is it “bad” if it makes so many people mad? Or are they just choices they didn’t like? For me, there was a lot of that. There was also a bit of characterization I didn’t like.

I’ll say this though, because the Steve thing that has everyone mad? I’m mad too, but per their time travel rules?

Steve didn’t erase Peggy’s family. They still exist in our timeline. Steve created a new timeline for himself to go live in. We don’t know if he stopped HYDRA and saved Bucky in that one, but I mean, we can assume.

So everyone complaining that he let all that shit happen? No he didn’t. This is an alternate reality he’s living in now.

If we go by what they established about changing the past not affecting the present.

But then we have Joe Biden Steve at the end, so... unless that’s a Joe Biden Steve who went from his timeline back to ours once he grew old. Not a Steve that existed and lived in the past of our current timeline. Then it actually works without contradicting their own time travel rules.

IMO... they ignored/ruined his character arc... but due to their aforementioned time travel rules, Steve going to the past wouldn’t affect that the present that he’s leaving.

So he COULD stop HYDRA, find Bucky, prevent Howard’s death, warn Hank and Janet about the missile.

That would all be an alternate timeline though, and our Bucky would still be the Winter Soldier.

So yeah, they contradict themselves... and completely fuck over Sharon Carter in the process. You know Steve didn’t tell Sam who his wife was, because he didn’t want him to tell Sharon that after kissing her he went back to marry her Aunt thus creating an alternate timeline to live in.

That’s the present being affected by him going back in time. Your time travel rules suck, Marvel.

So the children and family Peggy had? They still exist in our timeline, but not the timeline Steve created. The reality Steve created.

Okay so they don’t explain it, so this is just me trying to make sense of it myself. They say changing the past doesn’t change the present you left from, so unless Bruce was wrong and they’re contradicting their own rules Old Steve can’t have been actually out there all this time.

So I guess even though he didn’t show up in the gear and with the time machine when we see him, he did earlier, and just went to wait by the lake with the shield to be all dramatic? He probably waited to return until his Peggy died, and then he returned at some random point maybe like a day before they planned to send him back. He knew they would be there, so he just waited in his old man clothes.

That’s all I can think of.

So retroactively?

They had Steve kiss his wife’s alternate reality niece. I like Sharon Carter in the comics, I like what little they did with her on film.

They did her so dirty in the MCU, in the comics Peggy is almost a footnote and just part of his backstory. Sharon is Steve’s true love. Whether you ship them or not, they made Peggy out to be a bigger deal than she is in the source material.

I’m not here for pitting women against each other, but... God, the only woman the MCU has done dirtier is Betty Ross. Who should have been there with her dad at the funeral. Acknowledge her existence, Marvel. Yes they’re estranged, but maybe say having her die made Ross stop being such a dickhead and realize what really mattered.

Calling Peggy the love of his life is bullshit. Yeah, he had a date. Had. He never made it, due to being frozen. I don’t agree that they loved each other, tbh. I saw someone say they each had an idealistic, at times unhealthy attachment... but not love. Frankly? That’s not wrong. They liked each other. It never developed into love. Not in the timeline/reality we followed for the past ten years.

If this was their plan all along, then why did they introduce Sharon as a potential love interest?

Peggy is his past, Sharon is his future. The Lana Lang and the Lois Lane, respectively.

They didn’t plan this. It’s clear by how sloppy it is. It’s just so haphazard and insulting to all the characters involved, and yet Evans seems to be on board with it which disappoints but doesn’t surprise me.

Sharon didn’t have much screentime in the MCU, but every moment she had was important to the plot. She was one of the only agents that questioned Pierce’s orders. She held Rumlow at gunpoint even though the odds were against her. She let Steve know where Bucky was. She gave he and Sam back their gear. A lot of her scenes in Civil War got cut, and she got screwed by making it an Avengers movie instead of a proper Cap film.

She also got screwed by fandom. People acted like known like fucking toddlers, all because she was getting in the way of popular ships. Emily Van Camp was terribly harassed online, people calling her Steve’s beard or that it was icky and gross. Evans even said it was icky, which wasn’t that supportive of him... and then...

I liked Peggy in The First Avenger, but Hayley Atwell’s lowkey/high key narcissism is known within fandom circles, how she turned on Emily Van Camp and Sharon as a whole and threw shade at cons and on twitter and such. That left a bad taste in my mouth where I no longer care for the character at this point.

And they complete ignore/regress Cap’s arc of moving on. The fact he’s not the same man who went into the ice which is something even Whedon realized and addressed when he had him snap himself out of his Scarlet Witch!Vision.

The line from TWS they sampled for the trailer about the world changing and none of them can go back?

That was a lie. What’s ridiculous is that is the same exact directors, same exact screenwriters?

“Some people move on, but not us?” Well in that regard he had, so fuck that.

Speaking of regression, Thor’s?

I’m of two minds. He had depression and PTSD, but in my opinion, that’s end result wasn’t what Thor’s end result would be. He probably felt like he failed his people, but Jesus Christ, turning him into the Big Lebowski... fat jokes...

He becomes king, half his people are slaughtered and then and then he just... abandons the rest? To drink and watch his friends play video games? That’s sad. I think Thor would have felt like he failed and be hurting, but still try to do his best for the people who were left and still needed him? Instead of letting Valkyrie do it and the at the end to officially giving her the burden of ruling and fucking off into space?

And then at the end, he *officially* throws the burden of ruling in Valkyrie’s hands. Not that she isn’t capable, but it isn’t and shouldn’t be her responsibility.

“He’s being who he is, not who he’s supposed to be.”

That would be nice if it didn’t invalidate his arc. He didn’t want to be king at the end of Thor: The Dark World either, but at the end of Ragnarok he accepted it and was at peace with it.

Also, he didn’t need the hammer. Ragnarok made that clear. I’m glad Steve took it back with the stones, and I know it was more Thor needing to know if he was still worthy after becoming Big Lebowski... but it wasn’t needed. They just wanted Cap to wield it, and for them to have something else blunt to hit Thanos with.

This is the easiest money Natalie Portman made in her life. I feel bad for my friend who is a big Jane fan, as it’s literally maybe 15 seconds.

Nice to see Pierce, Sitwell, and Rumlow/Crossbones back, even if it’s only for a flashback and they’re all still dead in our reality. Or it would be, if it didn’t make the latter two out to be dumb. I mean, Rumlow isn’t a genius but he’s not just a dumb meathead. He wouldn’t just hand over the tesseract, he’d bring Cap to his superiors to ask “yeah hey what the fuck?”

Also, having Cap say Hail HYDRA is just... gross.

...Alternate timeline/reality Loki has the tesseract. I guess he’s the one the Disney+ series is going to follow. He’s wiped of all his development, though.

Vision is still dead. I guess maybe Shuri will rebuild him? Or it will take place between Civil War and Infinity War

So Guardians 3 is going to be about finding the alternate timeline Gamora who is now stuck in this one, huh? And I guess Thor is now a Guardian, or he’ll leave them between movies?

The alternate Nebula, I’m torn on. I think they could have gotten through to her, and she would be willing to team up with him. and would be willing to team up with them to kill Thanos. She never told him where the Soul Stone was. I mean, that’s why she aligned herself with Ronan. To kill Thanos. She hates Thanos.

Her wanting to make him proud and earn his favor despite what he did to her is heartbreaking on one hand, but the loyalty, when it’s been shown she’ll be disloyal and desert him if someone promises to kill him... idk. Btw.

Nebula should have gotten to kill Thanos. I don’t care that Iron Man started and is their poster boy. I’m sorry Tony fans. She deserved it more than he did.

Something else I’m curious about... was Peter Parker’s entire class killed? Not just Ned, the whole class. MJ, Flash, etc.? Because his entire supporting cast doesn’t seem to have aged at all in the Far From Home previews.

Also you’re telling me that in those five years, May never confronted Tony? Or if she did, we never saw it? Boo.

Oh, another dumb thing. Banner. Hulk. Professor Hulk. We don’t see how Banner made peace with the Hulk and became Professor Hulk, that all happens offscreen which is so cheap. He’s also just annoying throughout the whole film, and treated as comic relief? Also, the uncanny valley was deep this time around.

I’d honestly rather Cap had died as well, rather than the ending he got. Rather, if old man Steve didn’t show up, and there was just a cliffhanger of him being lost in time? Which has precedent in the comics? That would have been great. Instead of the bad characterization.

I’m indifferent to Tony’s death, honestly. He could have retired and raised his daughter. He could have died. I guess it’s cheaper to just kill him off and not worry about paying Downey for cameos they wouldn’t be able to resist.

Okay, the other death. Nat’s. I don’t care for it, but it worked. When I say it worked, I mean her motivations and the fact she at least had some autonomy. It was still fridging. It’s gross. It sucks.. but at least it wasn’t exactly like Gamora’s where she was a victim. I mean, she is a victim. A victim of gross writing, but... I like the character, you’re killing the only female OG Avenger for angst and drama... I would have preferred it was Renner, but her reasons worked even if I didn’t like it. I do think it would have been even just as heartbreaking/tragic though, it Clint had to give up his life for the hope of getting his family back. A devil’s bargain, they’ll be alive, but you won’t be and won’t see them again.

I question the hell is the point of a Black Widow movie now. Why should we care? Don’t get me wrong I like Nat. I have nothing against self contained, one-off adventures... but... it will be a prequel that doesn’t develop the character at all or see her grow and it’ll be inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. It may be enjoyable, but do we need to see it? It’s the Solo situation.

Do we need to see how the character became the character? What purpose does telling her backstory now serve, aside from just making people sad? Do we see how she started so we can appreciate how far she came, though? I can already appreciate that. You don’t need to twist the knife by making her origin her swan song. They can’t bring back our Nat, but who knows. Maybe the next villain will be Kang, and we aren’t done with time travel. Maybe we can have an alternate timeline Nat come into our universe like we did with Gamora.

A timeline where Clint was the one to die. I can deal with that, if they give ScarJo the money. I guess.

SCOTT LANG SAVED THE UNIVERSE. Well, actually. Also, a rat. A rat is responsible for saving the universe. I mean I laughed, but we couldn’t see Scott get himself out? He’s still my boy.

He’s probably my favorite character in the film. Seeing him and Hope reunite in the end battle was nice and made me happy, the way they didn’t miss a beat and got to working together. Him trying to keep it together when he talked about losing her. The end scene with them and Cassie. The fact she called Cap “Cap” and they shared a glance. Sucks for Scott to have missed five years of his daughter’s life, through.

Also, it kinda sucks that along with the people brought back, they couldn’t bring them the likes of Frigga and Quicksilver. Yes, they died, but you can still revive them in the present. You don’t have to make it so they never died. Maybe Quicksilver will Maybe in the WandaVision show, especially now that they won’t have to worry about a competing Fox version. Introduce her ability to warp reality. He was rumored to have been on set, and so I was expecting to see him in a flashback at least. Alas.

SPEAKING OF REVIVING DEAD CHARACTERS THOUGH. Why couldn’t like, Carol, use the gauntlet to revive Tony before they sent the stones back? She could take it. He didn’t need to stay dead, except for the fact... you know... Downey is expensive.

Something I find hilarious?

The kid from Iron Man 3 is at the funeral.

That kid knew nothing about the film whatsoever, except for the biggest spoiler? Cause if they invite HIM back to be at a funeral scene... whose funeral would it be, that he would attend, aside from Tony’s?

Oh, and SamCap. People, calm down.

I like Sam, Sam is worthy of the shield, Bucky’s not quite in a place where he’s ready for it anyway. In the comics Bucky becomes Cap, and then Sam becomes Cap after him. They can reverse the order. Bucky can still become Cap after him. Sebastian still has four movies left in his nine movie deal.

I’m curious about the Disney+ show now though. If it will be retitled, if they announced a fake title ala Serpent Society for Civil War. Although. I have a fear.

I don’t trust Marvel and I can see them killing Sam by the end of the Falcon & Winter Soldier series.

And then Bucky will take up the shield. Mackie’s 40. Idk how much longer he’ll want to be doing this, and he’s said in interviews he had no interest in bringing Cap and would like to see Sebastian take a crack at it, that he likes Falcon being Falcon.

Maybe age isn’t a factor. Bettany’s in his 40’s. Cheadle’s in his fifties. Paul Rudd is an ageless immortal who claims to be fifty. None of those are physically demanding roles though, not to the scale of Cap. The closest would be Chadwick Boseman, who is a year older at 41.

Age aside, I can see them doing it. That’s kinda the shit Marvel would do.

“Yay! We’re so progressive! We’re making Sam Captain America to placate his fans before we kill him! We won’t do that *just* yet in Endgame, we’ll wait to kill the black guy until he’s done helping out this other white guy figure out his place in the world!”

Now I’m gonna be anxious about that for the next year or two.

But so I think the shows are for characters on the shelf movie wise. Idk if when the show is over, we’ll see Mackie as Captain America in Avengers 5. It would be cool, but idk.

I don’t know if they’re even thinking of Avengers 5 at this point, or plotting out things like Guardians and Black Panther and Captain Marvel. And Eternals. And all their new Fox characters.

I guess the new Avengers line up will be Captain Marvel, Black Panther, Ant-Man, Wasp, SamCap, and Spider-Man? Maybe Doctor Strange?

Wanda retires to TV. As does Clint maybe, to train Kate Bishop and/or his daughter. Rhodey and Banner are just around.

Also. Banner and Thunderbolt Ross, at the end. Ross and the Hulk. Both in the same scene. Neither acknowledging each other or having any interaction whatsoever. Odd.

I keep hearing rumors about a Thunderbolts movie tho, from someone who was accurate with all of their Endgame leaks. I wonder if they want Ross to be the Fury of that which is why they’ve kept him around.

Bucky recently led the Thunderbolts but also Zemo is so ingrained in their history and I don’t see them working together at all.

I guess you could bring in Bernthal’s Punisher by that point if you want. Elektra. They won’t do it but they could.

Ghost would be a good fit, tho I don’t wanna see her be forced to kill people again. I can see them forcing her to work of a sentence. If she’s still alive, cause God if she was snapped and went 5 years without the Quantum energy... but yeah.

Bring back The Leader as a villain finally. Crap, I’m plotting a fanfiction.

https://twitter.com/rogerwardell/status/1070465411387404289?s=21

Idk. I just. Am disappointed but not surprised tbh.

Everyone knows I don’t like MCU Clint, but the callback interaction between he and T’Challa with the latter remembering his name was nice I guess. The final battle as a whole was nice I guess.

OH. And the exchange between Dr. Strange and Wong about if he brought everyone, and if he anted more? Probably not the intent, but to me it just seemed like a big “shut up” to everyone wanting the Netflix and Agents of SHIELD characters to cross over.

Also, a final critique?

The whole fake scripts, not giving actors a script thing. I hate it. I know like Mark Ruffalo and Tom Holland are notorious for letting spoilers slip, but I legit believe that a reason why A LOT of the actors got fake scripts was not to prevent spoilers but to prevent any of them going full Ed Norton and throwing a fit about the quality of said script.

Not letting the actors know the context of the scene they are performing is not only disrespectful but it’s broken and what can you expect but performances where they’re legitimately incapable of giving it their all?

That’s all I got for now. I guess.

I know it’s a joke, “I loved everything except for the stuff I didn’t” but seriously? I enjoyed everything except for the stuff I hated. Does that stuff ruin the movie? Do I not like it because I’m petty, or because it’s bad? You can not like something, it doesn’t mean it’s bad... but I think certain choices... were bad. Were very bad.

Was it shit sandwiched with awesome, or awesome sandwiched with shit? Do they balance each other out? Your mileage may vary. I haven’t decided yet.

EDITED: I replied to this in another post, a point by @chujo-hime, but I’ll copy/paste it on here since more people are likely to see this than our conversation.

“There’s no point in doing BuckyCap now that they’ve fridged Natasha”

I can’t fault you for feeling that way, and I don’t entirely disagree. have a theory on how Natasha could return despite them saying it couldn’t be undone.

Do what they did with Gamora. Take a version from an alternate universe/timeline. Maybe one where everything is the same, except that Clint died instead of her.

Whether or not they do this? Doubtful. Unless with the money they’re saving by letting another actor go (ahem) they give it to ScarJo to lure her back.

I mean, they have Kang back now. Next to Ultron, he’s one of The Avengers’ biggest villains. He’s also a time traveler, so there are ways… idk.

I’ve still not fully processed it. Whether Marvel is smart enough or cares to take advantage of their out, they have it. If nothing else, fans can exploit it in Fix-It fics.

ANOTHER EDIT:

Oh, what was the point of Ronin? I don’t mean sad Clint, I mean Ronin, aside from selling more action figures? He wasn’t even Ronin, they made him into The Punisher Lite. Ronin wasn’t Ronin, but I mean Clint hasn’t been Clint imo so...