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singingcicadas · 2 years ago

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IDW Rodimus and Optimus’ relationship in a nutshell: Rodimus chose a leader. Not “Optimus chose a protege.” Rodimus has the dominant position here.

IDW Rodimus and Optimus have such a deliciously messy relationship that contains equal measures of positive support and fucking each other up in the most spectacular ways. They respect each other, there’s friendship and admiration and fondness born out of long acquaintance, but once you dig underneath there’s also this current of internalized resentment: Optimus sees in Rodimus the reflection of his own flaws, as well as things he simultaneously dislikes and envies; Rodimus wants to emulate Optimus in terms of accomplishments/veneration but is frustrated by the sheer height of Optimus’ ideals and moral standards. They inconvenience his life, makes Optimus impossible to live up to, which in turn makes him feel morally inadequate because deep down he knows Optimus has the right values and doesn’t like what that says about himself.

The default impression that most people have of their relationship is usually Rodimus hero-worshipping Optimus as the eager-but-naive mentee and the stereotypical “Rodimus Wants Approval, Optimus Frowns in Disappointment”. It’s more complicated than that. To the point where I’d even argue that Rodimus is altogether more comfortable in a leadership role than Optimus is, and more often than not his headstrong personality puts him in the dominant position during their interactions rather then the other way around.

Looking at the major points of their interactions, whenever conflicts occur, it’s usually Rodimus who takes the hard aggressive stance and Optimus ends up backing off. He's not an inexperienced rookie in need of guidance, he's part of the Autobot high command, equal rank to Prowl, outranked only by the Prime. (Screencaps for those panels here) Not that rank is ever a deterrent for Rodimus for anything. He gives advice to Optimus as much as he receives them from him, to which Optimus listens. He also bosses Optimus around sometimes and Optimus never says anything just acts all submissive about it

Long post, so read under cut:

Optimus is someone who, though filled with desire to improve the world, has always looked to others to bring about change. He placed his hopes on Megatron, Shockwave, Zeta, and is betrayed each time, all the while stuck in an unfulfilling career where the lines between right and wrong becomes increasingly blurry until he isn’t even sure if he’s the hero or villain anymore. His heart is good but his stance isn’t firm; he ignores Roller’s warning about Shockwave’s suspicious activities and lets himself be pushed around by Zeta. He’s constantly in action, but it’s always reaction, to either ideas or threats initiated by others. It took Megatron backstabbing him down a hole and the Matrix literally shoving itself into his chest for him to finally step up and lift his own torch.

In contrast, Rodimus took over leadership of the weak and starving of Nyon and was planting bombs to defy the government by himself as a young bot. He’s the one who sought out Orion because he believed him to be different, forced him to look at what the government is doing to its people, and gave him an ultimatum: you either side with us or them.

The dawn of their meeting. After so many years of wavering uncertainty, Rodimus is the one who finally forces him to choose a side. Rodimus is the catalyst for Orion's denouncement of the old government, though Zeta's insanity nailed the coffin.

When Zeta came, Orion told him to find a way to get everyone out, that he’d buy them time, but Rodimus knew that they were in no condition to evacuate and there was no time, so he didn’t even try. He blew everyone up.

He made the decision to bomb the entire city of Nyon to thwart Zeta’s vamparc ribbon. He decided that the citizens were better off dead at his hands than Zeta’s, so he killed them himself.

And it wasn't even a spontaneous decision like the usual kind he's famous for making. The bombs around the city were pre-wired as a contingency plan. He'd premeditated this.

Like this guy would have aced the trolley problem. A weaker-willed person - a more self-doubting person - would have quailed at the prospect of taking responsibility for so many deaths. Even if the citizens would have died either way, what right did he have to decide which side they would die for? Who was he to decide the necessity of such a sacrifice? Was there absolutely no other way? Could he not have taken the opportunity to evacuate even a few lives to safety?

—These are questions that Optimus would have asked himself if he'd been in Rodimus’ place. He would have hesitated over the moral dilemma. These questions and moral hang-ups are what forms the essence of his leadership, as both the source of his strength and weakness. He's the kind of person whose response to the trolley problem would be to find some kind of insane (and often self-sacrificial) third option like jumping in front of the trolley. (Not that Rodimus wouldn't have jumped in front of the trolley in a heartbeat if he could, but he's also logical enough to realize when that wouldn't work.) If it had been up to Optimus, he would absolutely not have pressed the detonator.

But he defends Rodimus to Bumblebee, and acknowledges him as a worthy candidate for the Matrix, because he recognizes the necessity of the action, even if he might not agree with it. He tells Rodimus that leadership is making hard choices, that the price is to carry the guilt and loneliness and self-doubt.

And thus is the heart of their divergence: Optimus views leadership as something to be suffered over, as a burden he is forced to carry because there is no one else to do it. This makes him reluctant, always questioning his own worthiness, second-guessing his decisions, whether his actions are preventing destruction or causing more of it, whether it's right to decide the lives and fates of other people.

Rodimus, on the other hand, is self-absorbed. He actually enjoys being in charge. Not the responsibility or the mundane management part of it, but the "everyone do what I want and what I say goes" part. He has no problems whatsoever with wielding authority over other people. His self-doubt is the kind that's mostly repressed and god forbid other people from criticizing his actions - Ratchet's assessment of his character is spot-on:

He views leadership as a path to freedom, to steer everyone towards a future that he wants, and while he also feels the guilt deeply when someone dies on his watch, it's always as an aftereffect; it never stops him from taking risks or making the necessary sacrifices without hesitation nor heed to counsel.

His guilt over the loss of his team on his first time as mission leader does not lead him to caution in future missions. Nor does it prevent him from continuously putting his crew members' lives on the Lost Light in danger.

The Nyon situation is not a one-time occurrence. In Chaos Theory, Rodimus wants to destroy the Kimia facility when it got turned by Galvatron into a weapon, Optimus refuses because there might still be Autobots in there. But Rodimus insists, with the argument that there are also Autobots out here; the sacrifice of a few is needed to ensure the survival of the many.

And Optimus gives acquiescence. Note that Rodimus also didn't wait for him to agree before taking action.

It's clear that Optimus doesn't like what Rodimus is doing, but allowed it anyway because 1. Rodimus has the initiative, 2. there didn't seem to be a way to save both ends as they have no way of knowing what's happening inside the Kimia facility. Yet it isn't a decision that Optimus makes voluntarily. Again it's Rodimus who makes that call, Rodimus who makes the hard choice, while Optimus, the undisputed leader of the Autobots and the high commander of an army for four million years in war, is dithering over innocent Autobots and lost lives and morality issues and what ifs. The same source of compassion that makes him hesitate probably looks down upon Rodimus in judgement, but the leader part of Optimus, the logical part that ultimately allows Kimia to be destroyed because he knows it to be necessary, probably also envies him for his ruthless resolution.

(Also he's extremely competent in this issue, like this scene here)

In part Optimus' judgement is true; Rodimus is able to make these sorts of decisions because he does have less moral scruples than Optimus. Which is normal, as Optimus sets a ridiculously high bar. But when that high bar gets too inconveniencing, past Rodimus’ ability to understand or tolerate, he doesn't hesitate to put his foot down and lash out in accusation:

He literally bullies Optimus into letting him lead a rescue mission into what's obviously a trap (hence why Optimus was reluctant to send the mission in the first place). Optimus gives in to his demands without saying anything to defend himself. Then Rodimus proceeds to ignore every single word of warning from Optimus about keeping the mission clandestine, overrides Ironhide who Optimus sent to watch over him - "It's my mission, I'm in charge," barges in the front door straight into the trap, and gets Ironhide killed.

More detailed post about the event here.

By this point Optimus is already grieved by the toll of destruction the war took on both the Autobot forces and Earth, hiding from the humans and unable to help. Ironhide's death is the last straw.

The red text box is Optimus. He takes full responsibility for Ironhide's death, thinks he failed in his leadership, and resigns as prime to surrender himself to the humans.

Rodimus, who's the one actually responsible for the whole catastrophe, doesn't say a peep during Optimus' resignation speech. Then this 🔽 is his reaction:

Like wow. Cold much? Someone just died because of you. Someone else just took the fall for your mistake. They were your friends. But all Rodimus cares about is now we can finally get out of here no one's gonna stop me.

Optimus' surrender is a culmination of events, but this is still the breaking point. Of which again Rodimus is the catalyst. All the Autobots were dismayed by Optimus' decision, but Rodimus was the only one who had solid reason to talk him out if it, if he so chose. He only needed to step up and take responsibility for his own actions. Even if Optimus' mind had been made up, he could still have alleviated his guilt, or at least shared the burden of it. But he stays silent and scoffs at Optimus afterwards for freaking out.

It's not that he doesn’t feel guilty. It’s not that he doesn’t care. The first thing he does when he sees a revived Ironhide is to apologize. But right here right now, all he can think about is leaving the planet. Everything else is low priority. As for Optimus' emotional state? Other People's Feelings have always been a nonexistent point for him. (i.e his treatment of spotlight Trailbreaker and Red Alert). He can be extremely insightful at reading people and has a knack for knowing exactly the right words to say if he applies his mind to it, but callousness seems to be the default setting.

He wants to leave, so he's going to leave. He doesn't bother himself with the predicaments of those who choose to stay behind. He doesn't look back.

In essence he and Optimus does the exact same thing here. Both abandons the Autobots to do what they think is right, except their decisions are based off very different mindsets. Optimus leaves because of guilt, entrapped by his own morality. He thinks that surrendering himself to the humans is the only way to end the violence. Rodimus leaves because he wants freedom. For him, shedding responsibility is a liberation; he feels guilt but is never encumbered by it.

Rodimus and obeisance in the same sentence. This is about the only time in the whole series that Rodimus is this level of deferential to Optimus. After getting hit in the face with a combiner-sized mistake that turned everyone against him and which Optimus had to bail him out of, stealing Ultra Magnus’ shuttle, dying, an enlightening revival and bonding session with the Matrix, meeting a bunch of people who were supposed to be dead, and seeing the danger that Cybertron’s in, Hot Rod finally reaches the point of character growth where he officially graduates to Rodimus. Not that he’s any less impatient and unmoving to council as Rodimus, but still. It’s a huge step forward.

Because Rodimus’ behaviour on the Lost Light shows that he’s the type of person who’s very aware of the power of his position and has no scruples about utilizing that power to do what he wants. It’s easy to forget that he’s the top authoritative figure on the ship when you’re looking at his everyday interactions with the crew, he’s friendly, he’s down-to-earth, he’s buddy-buddy with everyone, but when he wants something done, either for ego or for the thrills or just because he thinks it’s a good idea, he will get his way and make people do things his way because he knows he has the final say. e.g. Asserting his position over Ironhide and Magnus when they try to question his orders, using Rung as sparkeater bait, ordering Swerve to shoot Fort Max, taking advantage of Chromedome’s injecting abilities, taking his team towards the Necrobot guilt attack (and thus playing into Getaway’s plans), etc. If people dies, he feels terrible, but the burdens of death only weighs on him after the fact - it doesn’t stop him from leading everyone headfirst into danger the next time it comes around.

For him to have held the power of the matrix in his hands but willingly choose to give it back is no small feat. He’d wanted that power all his life. He’d wanted to be Prime. But at this point he’d realized that it isn’t just Optimus’ power and acclaim that he wants, as he later admits in the dead universe - it’s the entirety of Optimus’ ideals, his morality, his decency. He recognizes his own inadequacy when he recognizes those values to be true, but they are things that he cannot ever live up to for himself.

(And also he’s never an actual Prime in this continuity so there’s no reason for Optimus to rename him Rodimus other than an indulgence for Rodimus’ liking of the name.)

After Megatron surrendered himself in Chaos Theory. Rodimus is the only one in the High Council to directly call Optimus out on his bias towards Megatron.

Rodimus’ account of his Matrix experience:

Rodimus’ matrix experience What Actually Happened:

Rodimus just straight-up lied lol. Maybe he did it to cover up his own insecurity about not wanting to sound as if the Matrix didn’t like him or something but can you imagine how this must have messed with Optimus’ mental state. Optimus was already upset by Megatron’s goading and had just admitted to Ironhide about his self-doubt over whether he’s being too reliant on the matrix’s wisdom affecting his judgement. Rodimus threw him in for a further loop.

And then in response Optimus does the same thing as Rodimus, aka lying about his matrix experience, presumably for the same reasons Rodimus did. The whole conversation is a lie leading to a lie.

Rodimus’ view of the Matrix as the ultimate source of indisputable divine-right autocratic power is more absolute than Optimus’. Here in DoOP when Optimus comes back, Rodimus’ solution to dealing with the NAILs is to have Optimus use the Matrix to assert his authority. When he’s dealing with the Galactic Council and Thunderclash, he calls himself Rodimus Prime to sound more important. Unlike Optimus, who feels guilty about exercising the Matrix’ influence on the colonists, Rodimus doesn’t have qualms about using the Matrix as a power flex.

But at the same time he also treats the Matrix as a tool, not a sacred artefact: he used the Matrix to power his ship when he bonded, and when the Matrix’ energy got depleted, he bashed and cursed at it. When the Matrix was needed to save Vector Sigma, Optimus was reluctant because he thought destroying the Matrix would mean destroying the last of Cybertron’s culture, Rodimus said don’t worry about it. He shattered the Matrix to stop Tyrest and recounted it to Optimus as no big deal.

Yet he believes in the Knights of Cybertron and insists on going looking for them to restore Cybertron’s culture and the Golden Age as soon as he learned of the Matrix map, despite it being pretty clear to everyone that there was no Golden Age, all at a convenient time when everything’s a mess on Cybertron. He takes 200 Autobots on his ship, a lot of them part of the elite, when they are outnumbered 100 to one.

This whole interaction made me crack up so hard, I can't even tell whether OP is being sarcastic or not.

Roddy's internally fuming, but Roddy can't say anything, because "incredible progress" lmao.

Like this is probably the closest we'd get to the "Optimus is Disappointed" thing the fandom loves. Optimus obviously doesn’t believe in the Knights of Cyberton and all the religious crap surrounding it, he probably thinks the Lost Light is on a fool's quest, the whole thing is a waste of time and resources, Rodimus is merely using this as an excuse to get out of the mess on Cybertron (Yeah Hardhead, stop JUDGING), he’d given up his life and name for Cybertron and entrusted Rodimus and Bumblebee to take care of things after he's gone, but Rodimus just went nope and gallivanted off without a backward look, leaving the remaining Autobots at a even more severe disadvantage than they were in before and let Starscream get the chance to oust them as leader.

I guess if you're really into the Disappointed!Optimus thing then this disappointment could be read as stretching all the way back to the Autocracy trilogy, when Optimus admired him as a worthy successor candidate for the Matrix, but as time went on it would have become more and more clear that Rodimus did not match his idea on how the burden of leadership should be borne. They were constantly at odds on Earth, then the whole bad judgement with Swindle happened, then Rodimus decided to redeem bad judgement with more bad judgement by stealing a ship and going solo into Megatron's lair to steal the Matrix back. The Matrix bonding, when it happened, also didn't magically change Rodimus into a more responsible leader. And leaving when Cybertron is in most need of leadership in pursuit of a dream just further cements that disappointment.

But here again they are making the same choice, just for different reasons. They both leave Cybertron in pursuit of their own ideals, they both abandon the Autobots in their hour of need. Optimus says in the end of DoOP that his self-exile is a uniquely selfish choice, that by leaving the mantle of Prime behind he is finally free. Responsible for no one. Beholden to no one. Except that it's still a decision forced by circumstances, flavoured by betrayal and guilt and his own perceived failings. Yet Rodimus is able to make the same decision with no emotional burdens - leaving's what he wanted, he feels no attachment or responsibility to those he left behind, he's just happy with his choice in general.

People hate on Optimus so much for this scene but does anyone notice, like, how flippantly Rodimus confesses his Overlord fuckup? Oh I smuggled a Decepticon prisoner on board, he escaped, people died, I let my best friend take the blame, I felt guilty about that later so I fessed up and apologized, and now 89/101 of my crew wants me gone. But that's all right because note to self: you gotta win them back, Rodders!

And he even leaves out a good half of it, such as how the Overlord incident is only the last one in a long list of bad decisions and abuse of power and poor treatment of his crew that made them lose faith in him, how the Decepticon prisoner is actually Overlord and they were trying to recreate phase-sixers for Prowl, and how he didn't fess up because he felt bad about Drift, he fessed because Magnus got so fed up with his bullshit that he tried to go to Tyrest to remove his captaincy.

Like it's pretty clear that the 89/101 vote got him hard because it was a blow to his ego. That the vote happened at all is still a big step of personal growth - but the main note he takes from that incident is to win the 89 naysayers back, thus making the failings of his leadership into a completely personal issue, instead of, say, taking a more introspective reflection upon his behaviour regarding concepts such as transparency, responsibility, and accountability. Or taking actual measures to amend his mistake by, idk, sending a message to Drift.

Optimus’s response is definitely not very supportive and is likely projecting his own discouraged mental state more than a little bit - after all, he resigned his position, never mind if it's not actually the wisest choice - but it definitely did strike the truth right where it hurt, as Rodimus practically admits that he made the confession with the expectation of getting a pep talk. He didn’t confess because he feels ashamed or obligated, he confessed because he wanted Optimus to say things that will make him feel better, not actually criticize his actions. He isn't looking for approval, he's looking for validation and absolution. Optimus saw through it and didn't spare any feelings.

This is the second of the two only times Optimus reacts harshly to Rodimus. The first time is when Rodimus called him out as being "too cozy" with Megatron, but Optimus' anger then hadn't been directed at Rodimus, specifically, he was angry at both everyone and himself.

Optimus was perfectly respectful of Rodimus' captaincy when he thought Rodimus was doing a good job at it when he first came aboard the Lost Light.

Orion reclaimed his identity as Optimus Prime because of Rodimus' words. Rodimus addressed Optimus' fears and insecurities while also acknowledging his own.

This is the exact opposite of the "Rodimus wants approval" stereotype. Rodimus is the one that gave Optimus the will to rise above his uncertainty. It's Rodimus' faith that brought back Optimus Prime. It's seeing Rodimus hurt that gave him the strength to defeat Nova.

Just like how all those years ago, it's Rodimus' faith that led him to finally defy Zeta.

Rodimus yells at Optimus again lmfao. Optimus gets cut off mid-sentence and sits through a whole rant before going uhhhh no I just wanted to say. It's as if he's the subordinate.

"Perhaps you could give me a brief update on your progress." This is a perfectly reasonable question, right? Phrased in the most courteous way possible. But Rodimus' response is all passive-aggressive. In the most un-informative way possible. Oh I broke the matrix why are you so hung up about that honestly it wasn't very sturdy to begin with anyway. Like your Chief Justice just tried to commit genocide, maybe that's worth elaborating a bit to your faction leader?

Optimus didn't not tell Rodimus about Megatron's co-captaincy himself on purpose. He couldn't tell Rodimus because Rodimus wasn't answering his calls.

And also Optimus is fully within his right to arrange captain assignments on the Lost Light however he wants, it's been said in the MTMTE that the Lost Light is an Autobot ship, according to Ultra Magnus he has the right to take command, and in the end it's qualifiable for requisition. Yeah Drift did buy it with his own money but it's like, donating a ship to the Navy.

Rodimus knows exactly why Optimus put Megatron on the ship. This panel, along with the "cozy" comment and his motivation speech to Optimus in the dead universe, and also to a certain degree the accusations he made before the mission that got Ironhide killed, all shows that Rodimus understands Optimus very well. He knows how Optimus' mind works, his ideals and fears and shortcomings.

But here in the last panel it show that Optimus does not understand Rodimus at all, and likely never did. He's cautious in their interactions because he cannot be sure of Rodimus' reaction, even after four million years of familiarity.

This is the last time they see each other before Optimus dies in Unicron, when Optimus is asking the Lost Light to return to Cybertron for Caminus' integration ceremony. As the leader of the Autobots it is well within his right to issue commands. But his whole attitude here is careful, phrasing everything as requests and placations. Not to mention that he barely manages to get in a word edgewise over Rodimus' many (albeit understandable) complaints. And it's Rodimus who cuts off the call.

The thing to keep in mind when looking at these two is that it's almost always Rodimus who holds the reins in their interactions, from their first meeting in Nyon to their last conversation in the Lost Light facetime call. During their first meeting it was Rodimus who lured Optimus to the Acropolex and chose him as the leader to follow despite Optimus and Megatron both trying to recruit him with more or less the same words. And the last time they spoke it was also Rodimus who hung up the phone on Optimus.

It's worth mentioning that from the moment Optimus put Megatron on the Lost Light, he and Rodimus stopped exerting influence on each other's lives. From that point on, the changes and growth to Rodimus' character no longer has anything to do with him. His role in Rodimus' life is replaced by Megatron.

The last thing Rodimus said to Optimus in that call was “Megs says hi.”

#transformers #idw transformers #rodimus #optimus prime #maccadam #mtmte #hot rod

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