#it's such a weird overlap to have with ASPD

[aspd-culture]

Aspd culture is being friends with the shittiest people ever for so many years just because they were fun and didn’t question any of my shitty behaviour until they pissed me off. Like why should i care that she lied about someone having a miscarriage (because she had already fabricated that she was pregnant in the first place lmaoo) if it doesn’t affect me? Its a little funny imo. Why should i care if he uses slurs and hates people like me? He’s fun to be around. Why should i give a fuck that he’s a “horrible, disgusting addict”? He gives me free drugs. Why should i care that he’s a bully? Some people are too sensitive and need to be put down a little. Who gives a shit if he threatened to shoot up a school and is a juvenile delinquent? This is the most fun i’ve had with anyone else. Idk man, “problematic” people are usually the only ones i can stand being around. Its much more fun being around people who set shit on fire and steal stuff with you than people who constantly need attention from authority and can’t handle jokes.

aspd-culture-is

[sepiasys]

Internally, mentally, we're... a mess, I guess

Externally, most in front, I think 🪶 is out ^^;

I speak knowing idk who I am <:3 but. Have your third person pov narrator /pf (I'm sure thst on some level it's 🌼 speaking…)

But

1) it's kinda funny how our hair changes based on who's out, which is 100% because of the way we stand and move and stuff

2) 🦊... definitely displays the most aspd traits out of us ^^; (not a bad thing. Just. Weird to acknowledge?)

3) I'm pretty sure if we focused hard enough, we'd find a collection of PDs (of which we. Don't know all of em ^^;)(love comorbidity and overlapping symptoms…)

4) I know that it probably is 🪶 because. Interest, hobby, poetry ^^;

We can somewhat tell who is interested in what; we can somewhat tell what we would actually kinda wanna do, even if it's idealized in our mind ^^;

Associations...

[radical-sainthood]

Alright!!! It's past midnight here, happy ween, trick or treat, I hope you all feel somewhat better. :3 I'm finally responding to the last long ask before I attempt to go to bed. Will we have success? I don't know.

Anyway: Regarding the showering, that's rough and I hope he gets better, really. (Even though he likes to show up in my dreams randomly because I have to be the most haunted bastard in the world apparently. Anyway dreams are a whole other thing I could get into, though I'm not sure they have much meaning.)

I don't think we collectively have ASPD, but I do have autism, and while not the same it can also make emotions and empathy weird to deal with. I always felt it was an interesting overlap. I just wish it was easier to talk to others about having low or fluctuating empathy without them automatically assuming the worst. Like, no, it doesn't mean I want others to hurt it just means I won't really know what the hells going on.

And!!!! I'd gladly ramble about my partner but I may need slight prompting at times on what specifically to talk about otherwise I'll draw a blank. (Another trait of mine I'm now side eyeing lol). Especially if it'll help you or you'll enjoy it!

As a final. I see you, other anons who like me. I'm glad to be favored. Eehhhhh (/gen)

With this, I go to bed. When I wake up I might ask some more questions, but you don't need to go in depth with the answers. (/gen) (it's pretty general stuff anyway.) Goodnight everyone!!!!

-🦌👁

HIII Good morning! I hope you slept well! (I'm sure you'll get back to us when you can!)

And we're working with him as best we can, I feel really bad for him, it's really not his fault that he's like this and we all wish there was more we could do to help him, we're trying certainly.

And we also have autism! So it's really just a nightmare of misunderstandings. I agree with you on that point, that I wish people could learn about low empathy individuals without assuming that they WANT people to hurt or be in pain. That is such an oversimplification of it all.

We view you in many ways, as our friend, and hearing about things that make our friends happy is important to us, hence especially why we want to hear about you and your partner!

That is most of what I have to say on those topics, I'm also glad that the anons are enjoying our conversations! You are welcome to ask any questions you want, and we will answer to the best of our ability, even if that answer is just that we don't have an answer.

[veliseraptor]

i've just started CQL (spoiled to hell and back but having a grand old time) and i wanted to know what you thought of Xue Yang and ASPD? (not trying to call him an ableist slur in a roundabout way, i potentially have a big scary PD myself [though likely not ASPD] and i just think he's neat)

I think I've answered a question like this before (and it's also come up for other characters) and my general policy is like...when it comes to fictional characters I generally don't want to put specific modern diagnoses on them, for a number of reasons I'm just averse to doing so as a rule.

I think some of this has to do with how...culturally determined specific diagnoses can be - not saying that diagnoses aren't real or helpful, just saying that there's so much overlap and intersection and the specific way people get their stuff named and identified can have a lot to do with where they are, when they are, and who they are.

so basically...sure! maybe! certainly if it resonates with someone who is carrying around a specific diagnoses of one kind or another and that is somehow helpful or meaningful to them, I'm not going to say they shouldn't roll with the headcanon; more power to them. but for myself specifically I just tend to leave it at "Xue Yang's got some weird brainstuff going on that impacts how he relates to other people" and write/analyze that in the ways it manifests in his behavior, rather than putting a specific diagnosis name on it and claiming that as my definitive headcanon.

(I do have headcanons about how in a modern AU I think Xue Yang has been thoroughly pathologized throughout his life in a way that is very ableist, but also nobody can really agree on what, exactly, is pathological about him, and certainly there's not a lot of interest in helping. it's basically a lot of "people just trying to pick a specific name for what's "wrong" with him" and it stopping there.)

[sharpth1ng]

Different anon but I’ve been curious about what you think about BPD stu/billy?

Alright get ready for another long one.

Same disclaimers as before, diagnosing both BPD and autism/adhd is complicated, but it is more common to co-diagnose than ASPD as there’s less overlap and autistic and ADHD folks appear to be somewhat more vulnerable to the kind of trauma associated with the development of BPD.

Same as before it takes a long time to diagnose a personality disorder and it should.

But here are our criteria:

1. This is complicated. We don’t see this behaviour from Billy but his response to his mom leaving is to kill someone, I think we can tick this box for him☑️

For Stu we have less movie evidence but if I’m going from my own characterization this is complicated. His behaviour in Ch9 could count as this but also I legit believe he would let Billy go if he wanted to. Would he be a fucking mess? Yeah 100% but the fact that I think he would let him leave makes me think this is a no ✖️

2. This is a no for both of them. ✖️

They do both have patterns of unstable relationships but the idealization/devaluation cycle is important here. Billy idealizes his mom but he doesn’t cycle, and Stu idealizes Billy but doesn’t cycle. I would say they have patterns of unstable relationships but not in the way that is characteristic of BPD

3. Complicated for Billy. I would say based on my characterization he does have this, but I would almost say it’s more a result of Autism (lots of weird sense of self stuff there let me tell you) and his own internalized homophobia. Stu I think has a pretty stable sense of self, so this is a no for both of them imo ✖️

4. I don’t think we can say Billy qualifies for this, he does risky things but they’re planned, not reckless. I think we can say Stu probaly qualifies. He’s 100% a reckless driver IMO, steals constantly, and also would take random pills offered to him at a party. That said this could be debated as a result of ADHD so take this with a grain of salt.

Billy: ✖️

Stu: ☑️

5. Complicated. I’d say no for Billy, I don’t think he’s particularly suicidal although with the right set of stressors he could be passively suicidal (eg getting yourself killed by someone else on purpose). I��d say he has some self-injurious stims, but that’s not the same thing so I’m going to say no for him.

Stu isn’t suicidal and doesn’t self-injure, but he does happily allow an incredible amount of injury to be done to him. Again, because he’s doing it for pleasure I think I may have to say no for this because generally the self-injurious behaviour in BPD is coming from a place of depression.

This is probably more a paraphillia for Stu (a diagnostic label I usually feel very complicated about generally given that it comes from a very puritanical scientific tradition but also Stu’s behaviour is pretty damn extreme.)

So Billy: ✖️

Stu: ✖️

6. Billy ticks this box no question ☑️. Stu does not ✖️

7. I don’t think either of them feel this way because they have each other, but I think if they suddenly lost the other for whatever reason this would kick in big time so I’ll give them a ☑️

8. Billy ticks this ☑️ again, could be argued to be a result of emotional regulation issues from autism and trauma though, take this with a grain of salt.

Stu’s anger is generally disproportionate to the situation and rarer/less easily triggered than Billy but not particularly well controlled so I’ll give him a check on this too ☑️

9. Again, not something we have movie evidence for but I do think Billy dissociates. I would call it an autistic shutdown though so this one is a no ✖️ and its a no for Stu as well ✖️

Final tally:

Billy-☑️✖️✖️✖️✖️☑️☑️☑️✖️

Stu-✖️✖️✖️☑️✖️✖️☑️☑️✖️

So yeah, Billy is much closer to a BPD diagnosis (you need 5/9) and I think could be diagnosed that way depending on how you read some of his behaviour.

Stu is not as close, and I think could even be a 2/9 year if you count impulsivity and trouble with emotional regulation as a result of ADHD.

As usual, this is just for fun and I’m not a clinician. I study this stuff but I don’t practice it so take all of what I say with a grain of salt.

[adhbabey]

Psychopathy is a thing tho. It is separate from ASPD and psychosis. It is not technically a diagnosis, it is currently considered a "personality construct". Sociopath is less an official term these days than psychopath, which is whatever but while there is significant overlap between ASPD and psychopathy, they are not necessarily the same thing. Someone could have one or both but they have different criteria. And psychosis is another thing entirely. There are also two types of psychopathy, factor 1 and factor 2. Factor 2 tends to line up more with ASPD or what some would call a sociopath. There's also a thing called pseudopsychopathy, typically associated with damage to the ventromedial prefrontal cortex.

I agree that it is problematic that police procedurals/true crime shows and movies heavily associate psychopathy and personality disorders with violent crime. However, criminal offenders, violent or otherwise, often do have (usually undiagnosed and untreated) mental disorders or are neurodivergent.

People try so hard to separate personality disorders and psychotic disorders from violence and crime that they forget that criminals are still people with their own psychopathology that may or may not impact their criminal behavior. There is no single thing that determines someones choices, but it is disingenuous to say that someone's psychopathology has no effect at all.

One thing, psychosis is not a disorder, it's a symptom of many disorders. Psychosis is when you experience delusions and hallucinations, similar to a hypnotic trance, and is often caused by triggers, such as unreality. "Psychotic" people refer to those with psychosis.

Psychopathy, however, is not in the DSM, and is not a thing, just something we made up to assign to people who are "evil". Here is a good article on it. It's not real in the case that it's a "mental disorder". Sure, it exists as something in criminal psychology, but it's not an actual thing that actually applies to anyone, just something we apply to people that we deem as bad.

People with ASPD are those who have no affective empathy, they cannot experience other people's emotions as their own, and can struggle to understand their own emotions as a part of that. There are many people who are compassionate and kind, with little to no affective empathy, that shouldn't make them villains. As well as, people who mirror others is a common human experience, even with animals, that's normal and not weird. People with ASPD need your support and kindness, trying to convince me of the goodness of criminal psychology doesn't help victims. My blog is here to support all disabled and neurodivergent and mentally ill people, those with ASPD are a part of that. They're not scary at all.

I need you to understand this is not about me discounting the work that doctors do, but the way in which this information is used. This is only used to further demonize those with mental illnesses and disorders, I hope you understand. Think about stuff like profiling or body analysis, or how mental institutions once held both criminals and those who were mentally ill. This information doesn't exist in a vacuum, it's always meant to hurt someone else.

I think that these traits and symptoms associated with criminals is a bad thing. It's like the prison industrial complex, something used to put marginalized people in prison, so they can't fight back. It's not just people of color, it's all marginalized people, disabled people are one of them. Disabled people already barely have any autonomy, so any disabled people that are deemed as dangerous are locked up, what do you think about that? It's real, these things happen all the time.

Do you know like, other disorders that are associated with "damage to the prefrontal cortex", ADHD. I don't think like,, there's much to say on the research of "psychopaths" when it's not even in the manual of mental disorders, and it's often associated with an actual disorder and a symptom of several disorders. But that one disorder isn't even the same, it's deemed as a different thing all together. I honestly think a lot of this is bullshit, and only further causes harm to those of us who are disabled.

Do you even know that most people with personality disorders cannot seek treatment because it's so demonized? That they get turned away or have their disabilities erased, because there is so much shame and hatred surrounding these disorders. Did you even know that some people have medication forced on them because they have a "dangerous" mental illness? I'm not surprised if you haven't. I'm not surprised with the amount of ableism in this world. People with stigmatized disorders are the victims, not neurotypical abled people.

I won't change your mind, clearly. But I want more people to reconsider the information that they are given to, on a silver platter, by the police. Ask yourself why is that information handed to you, so freely? Why is it so easy to believe? How easy is it to just blame someone for the world's problems, and not on the system that created such horrible things? This is not a mistake, I need you to understand that much.

[ill-be-istj-if-no-one-else-is]

Will a diagnosed sociopath always be a thinker rather than a feeler? Or at least have a thinking function as a primary or auxiliary function rather than tertiary or inferior?

I don’t know if I can answer that just because I don’t know a whole lot about Antisocial Personality Disorder and similar (diagnoses that may overlap with ‘sociopathy’ which is not an official diagnosis by some standards*), but I do think that while it’s something of a spectrum, like many disorders, it would be difficult to apply MBTI in a meaningful way to a disorder that specifically messes with cognition of morality. Fundamentally MBTI is still about neurotypical adults and while I don’t think that prevents people with a lot of disorders (ADD/ADHD, depression, anxiety, autism spectrum, to name a few) from typing themselves I think the specific nature of ASPD is such that it would be really hard to use MBTI meaningfully.

*sidebar: diagnosis of mental illnesses is weird because there’s both the DSM and the diagnosis codes. F60.2 is the ICD-10 code that encompasses sociopathy, and is officially ‘dissocial personality disorder’. DSM meanwhile uses an axis system; most mental illnesses are considered axis 1, personality disorders and intellectual disabilities are axis 2, medical diagnoses (like the flu or a broken arm) are axis 3, environmental/social considerations (like homelessness) are axis 4, and the global assessment of functioning (GAF) is axis 5. Anyway per the DSM they use the term Antisocial Personality Disorder as well, and it is axis 2.