#me and Necro's relationship is very complicated

[your-pal-nebula]

That moment when you cannot tell if your feelings for someone are platonic, romantic, sexual or a secret fourth thing that transcends reality but it's even worse because it's with the guy who lives inside of your head

[studentinpursuitofclouds]

Sooo i've been listening to necromancin dancing for a while and i suddenly have an idea.

How would the sdv/sve bachelors and bachelorettes react to their spouse used to being a necromancer who summons the dead by dancing around, maybe they could used to be a well known necromancer known as 'Necrodancer' who went into hiding because they had a change of heart about necromancing.

It's like someone looking through someone's else school year book picture and the person in the picture looks and acts completely different from what they are now.

Necrodancer... Haven't heard that word since back in 2016 when I played Crypt of the Necrodancer (fun rhythm game, but reeeealy hard, at least for me). Also this song is awesome btw, thanks for the recommendation!

I had fun with this ask as I couldn't decide whether to write headcanons more comical or more angsty, so it came out mixed, lol. Anyway, thank you so much for the ask! ❤️

SDV/SVE bachelors/ettes react to the fact that their spouse!Farmer is a former necrodancer

SDV/SVE bachelors:

Sam:

Sammy didn't catch the meaning of Farmer's words at first and thought they're confessing to him about their past as a member of a metal-rock band called NecroDancer. Like hey, another musician in town, that's cool, something Farmer had never told him. "Sam, I used to literally summon dead people from their graves with my dancing. Don't do that anymore, but still." Oh... Wait, is that true? Can his spouse prove it? No, Sammy changed his mind, no need to prove anything! Especially, he doesn't want to force his spouse to do something they've disowned. He apologises for asking them to prove anything at all. Even after discovering the truth, Sam's attitude towards Farmer won't change much (and it's kinda cool).

Alex:

Nce try, dear, but Alex doesn't believe in all those scary tales. Maybe if Farmer would have told the athlete this on some other day, not on The Spirit's Eve, he would have believed it. So the only way to prove it is to summon the dead man with a dance, which Farmer is not going to do. Perhaps the conversation will remain unfinished and the young couple will move on. Until Alex discovers notes or something else that proves his spouse's words. "You're a necromancer?!" Farmer admitted that to you from the beginning, Alex, like, seriously? Lots of questions, doubts, but they'll get over it. Farmer doesn't do that sort of thing any more, right? Then everything is fine, he thinks.

Shane:

"Don't know about these modern dances, so it doesn't say much to me, hon." No, Shane, your spouse wasn't just dancing with other members of some youth subculture, this is an actual necro dance. Like, a "fucked up dark magic and summoning the dead" kind of dance. "...What the fuck, Farmer." He didn't mean to be rude to Farmer, those words just came out in a rush. It wouldn't take long for Shane to be stunned at the very concept of being able to summon the living dead from the ground by dancing. But a little later, he would simply accept the fact and with his spouse move on with their lives. They no longer practice necromancy, have repented, and it's time to move on.

Harvey:

What? Ha ha, that's funny, Harvey now thought Farmer had just confessed to him about... What was that about again? "Raising dead people from their graves with dance?" But that's just absurd, right? Right? Why is his spouse now silent and hiding their gaze from him? Please Farmer, tell the doctor that it's just a bad, tasteless joke. Oh, Yoba... How should Harvey react now? It would be a lie if he said that this confession from his spouse doesn't bother him. He loves Farmer, but damn it - a literal necromancy! Building a relationship on lies is not a good start. On the other hand, Harvey understands the reason why they're reluctant to tell. It's- Oh goodness, it's all so complicated!

Elliott:

"I... I don't know what to say, it's... I... I need a moment." Sorry, Farmer, but Elliott needs to go outside for a minute. The writer's head is spinning from the information he's received and he definitely needs a breath of fresh air to gather his thoughts. Who would have guessed - a dark magician who mastered the art of controlling the bodies of the dead in a mad dance.... Sounds like an idea for a horror novel, except this is reality. Naturally, there would be a few uncomfortable questions, but the writer made sure that his partner would in no way practice necromancy again. Farmer that Elliott knows and loves is a completely different person now, not the one who did black magic without remorse in the past. They've changed.

Sebastian:

"Creepy. But kinda cool and hardcore." Seriously, nothing surprising - the famous A.S.S. trio of the Stardew Valley are more or less dabbling with everything mystical and occult. Sebby, though, unlike his friends, reacts more calmly to his spouse's truth, and immediately picks up on the gravity of Farmer's words. Understandably, they are uneasy about talking about their necromancer past, and feel remorse. Because the very concept of raising the living dead by dancing around isn't so much cool as rather disturbing after all. He will listen to whatever Farmer tells him and will try to understand their situation. It's not clear if things will be the same, but they both can try.

Magnus Rasmodius:

"You- What!?" Magnus went through a whole storm of emotions in a couple of moments: confusion, shock, anger, denial, hurt, sadness, anger again. When they- why had his spouse never told him this? Necromancy is strictly forbidden! An immoral use of magic, the desecration of the bodies of the dead... Even he, who knew quite a few branches of dark magic, was not allowed to practice it and would never practice this anyway! He... shouldn't have shouted at Farmer but... Magnus needs to know the truth. And so does the Ministry. Yes, Rasmodius understands everything, but high mages need to know about their 'necrodancer' past, so there are no sudden... surprises later.

Lance:

Lance is shocked, to say the least, and very, very unhappy with this discovery. The pink-haired adventurer doesn't need to tell Farmer that any form of necromancy is forbidden everywhere, his spouse already knows that perfectly well. It's all... *Sigh* Lance realises they've changed, he realises that such things aren't talked about openly, and if someone got wind of their past, the chase/blackmail would begin. But lying to him is no better. He loves Farmer, but there needs to be a serious resolution to this matter. Notifying at least Magnus or Camilla as senior wizard/witch, they should help how to solve such a delicate problem. But no more hiding the truth, okay?

Victor:

"You mean..." Victor owns a whole collection of rare books, featuring about brave adventurers, different kinds of monsters, and even schools of dark magic. He remembers the topic about necromancy perfectly, as the very concept, goals, and description of the spells in general made his blood freeze in his veins while reading it. "I dance, and the dead rise from their graves." Ah, phew, so Victor's spouse a "necrodancer". Well, it's not as bad as those who kill people and then resurrect them. Victor is still confused and worried, because... what if the Ministry starts chasing them if they find out the truth? What will happen to his spouse then?

SDV/SVE bachelorettes:

Abigail:

"That's metal as fuck!" Well, that's... not exactly the reaction Farmer expected from his wife Abigail after telling her truth. Though on the other hand, the purple-haired young woman is crazy about all sorts of occult stuff and magic, so necromancy is also something automatically cool to her, so there's nothing to be particularly surprised about. If her spouse starts dancing in a special way, the dead will start following them, right? Coooool! Oh... she noticed Farmer's sadness and immediately stopped. Abby naturally won't tell anyone or mention in conversation with her spouse if it upsets them. Still, inside her the voice will be screaming, because, holy shit, a necrodancer... is so cool!

Penny:

On Penny's face Farmer read the sheer terror, disgust and fear of them when they revealed the truth of their past to her. Considering that the young teacher already believed in magic (their farm was covered with obelisks and her spouse used a magic sceptre almost daily), she believed their words that they used to be a necrodancer right away, without any proof. It's all in the past, yes, but there's no way Penny can get it all out of her head. To the point where their entire marriage may be in question. Desecrating the bodies of the dead for your own purposes... Even after refusing to use magic again and repenting... Penny doesn't know what to do next.

Haley:

Farmer decided that confessing their past sins to Haley wasn't a good idea, since their dearest wife still wouldn't stop screaming, running across the room and throwing magazines at them. "It's not like I was killing people for my necrodancing! I was just raising them up from their graves with my dancing..." As if that makes a complete difference! Haley will calm down after all, but will still be very angry and... afraid of them. Which will make Farmer's heart crack, but they know they deserve it. Doing damn thing with corpses and lying to Haley all this time. Whether they will be able to live their lives the way they used to is unclear to either of them.

Maru:

Maru was shocked and horrified, though the picture after her spouse's words was quite different in her mind. After all, she believes in science, not magic (even living in the Valley with a literal wizard nearby, yes) and doesn't believe in the existence of "necromancy", regardless of what forms. So for the young inventor, saying "I was a necrodancer earlier" = "I dug up corpses and danced around them, believing I was doing dark magic". Farmer can, of course, prove to their wife that they do indeed possess such magic, but honestly, it doesn't get any better - there's corpse desecration involved here and there. Maru and Farmer need to have a serious talk about, well, everything, before making decisions.

Emily:

"Oh, some special dance that 'even the dead will dance'? Darling, you should definitely teach me, we can perform together at the Luau in a week!" Merciful Yoba... Emily, bless your heart... Farmer doesn't know whether to explain to Emily that this isn't what they meant, or to leave his wife in the dark, lest she be disappointed by the mistakes of her chosen partner. If Farmer chooses the truth, Emily will remain silent for about ten minutes, after which she will talk to her spouse about their past as necrodancer. The blue-haired young woman will forgive Farmer for not telling her the truth, and they will move on together. She believes they are truly repentant.

Leah:

"Farmer, what the heck do you mean you were a necrodancer?" Leah is angry, and to be honest, has every right to be - Farmer would be angry too, if their partner had only now claimed to have done this sort of thing in the past. But the artist would just as quickly calm down, and wait for the story to continue. If the revelations have already begun, she wants Farmer to tell her everything. Leah can understand them: even after their refusal to practice necromancy and remorse, there remains a fear of persecution and paranoia. But they had to tell her everything in the beginning of their relationship, no matter how difficult it was to talk about.

Claire:

Huh, Claire thought she was sleep-deprived and tired and couldn't perceive the real world, because the cashier heard her beloved spouse just confess to necromancy in the past. How strange. Well, Farmer was right earlier, she definitely should take a vacation, they could relax for a couple of weeks on Ginger Island, and- "Claire, you heard it right. It's true... I'm sorry." "......." Yup, holiday plans are cancelled. Is that... even possible? A special dance that makes an army of the walking dead follow Farmer around? It's a pretty creepy picture, and the cashier can't understand why Farmer was even involved in such a shady thing. She's scared and anxious, what should she do next? Who should she even ask for advice from?

Olivia:

Surprisingly, Olivia believes in magic (having communicated with Magnus earlier, but that another story...), so she doesn't doubt her spouse's words, whereas the other person in her place thought Farmer was crazy. She doesn't understand... Was Farmer forced to do such immoral actions to corpses, or was it of their own free will? What purpose did they have as a necrodancer? And why- What, inconvenient questions? Well, her spouse will have to answer, because the future of their marriage depends on their answers! They've already lied for a long time ("Didn't lie, just didn't say anything..." "Don't interrupt, Farmer."), it's time to tell the whole truth, and then... then they'll decide what to do next.

Sophia:

"Wait a minute, you're NecroDancer555! So you're the famous cosplayer who hides their face behind incredible video game/anime costumes and comes to Comicon?!" Um, no... Especially since Farmer and Sophia were together at the last comicon where that cosplayer was. "Awww... Wait, hold on-" Yeeeeeeep! Poor Sophia would squeal from the realisation of who her spouse really was, so much so that all the glass in the house would crack from the high notes. Well, at least she didn't pass out, that's good. But the thought of walking corpses and that Farmer had previously controlled them with their dance made the pink-haired girl very much afraid of her spouse.

Scarlett:

"Wow, so you really are-" No, Scarlett, Farmer is not the famous cosplayer NecroDancer555 who hides their identity behind masks and costumes on comicons. ".... Firstly, it wasn't necessary to be rude to me, Farmer, and secondly, again - what the actual heck." This... it's all a little too much for her. Well, not a little - too much for Scarlett to handle. Her spouse desecrated the corpses of the dead with some obscure magic, and now they've realised their mistakes, are genuinely remorseful, and are now just trying to live normally with her. Whether she forgives them or not - depends on the details that Farmer is about to tell her.

[katakaluptastrophy]

An aspect of the queer coding of Abigail and Magnus' relationship that I've not really seen people discuss is how Harrow's response to them manifests as a sort of internalised homophobia (for lack of a better word).

The idea that there's an explicit taboo against romantic or sexual relationships between necromancers and cavaliers is introduced in A Sermon on Necromancers and Cavaliers at the end of GTN (a text that for the most part reskins Ephesians 5 to be about necromantic aptitude instead of patriarchy...).

It says in no uncertain terms that "the love of the cavalier for the necromancer, and the necromancer for the cavalier, is not the love of a spouse. It cannot be libidinous", that "after a myriad of thought about the matter, marrying your cavalier remains taboo at best", and that "there have been those who have argued eloquently that [necro/cav marriages are] traitorous to the ideals of the Necrolord Prime."

It then specifically addresses Fifth House practice, saying "There is still a precedent in the Fifth for spouses to become a cavalier at particular times, but this is regarded as a stubborn holdover that is characteristically Fifth to not remove from their practise." (Fifth House necro/cav marriages seem to use the same logic as married Orthodox clergy - the marriage can precede the ordination/cavalier vows, but the other way around would be unacceptable.)

In HTN, the taboo against necro/cav relationships is mentioned twice. When Harrow is interviewing Augustine, he describes his cavalier as having been "my other half" and Harrow has a visceral reaction:

You were momentarily revolted by the apparent Fifth House tradition. “You and your cavalier were—wedded?”

This, of course, is the same Harrow who, prior to a spot of DIY lobotomy, exchanged what seemed very like wedding vows with her cavalier (who is now narrating that feeling of revulsion from inside her head).

When Harrow awakes in her River bubble, she immediately repeats part of those maybe-vows and says "Griddle". Shortly thereafter, while helping the gang prepare to banish the Sleeper, we find her very pointedly observing Abigail and Magnus:

"She watched Abigail and Magnus cross on tiptoe, nimbly dodging any line that their shoes might scuff, and in passing turn and kiss each other gravely. She was not embarrassed to see this intimacy; in fact, she found that it was vaguely interesting to see a marriage play out in front of her. There were many strictures against a necromancer marrying their own cavalier, and whatever road Abigail and Magnus had chosen to walk had been a difficult one: she knew that the marriage had preceded the cavaliership, which perhaps had made it less grotesque for both. They kissed as chastely and briefly as children; Magnus touched her cheek and said quietly, “Godspeed, my darling,” and she said, “You too.” That was all. No more, and no less."

We've not been party to any internal monologue Harrow may have had observing the Fifth before, but here she's clearly working through a number of complicated feelings: her interest in a relationship like this, an acknowledgement of the difficulty these kinds of relationships face in light of social and religious taboos against them, and then an odd swing back round to the language of revulsion, as if she's reigning herself back in before she can let herself think about it too much.

Part of the taboo that is causing Harrow to have such visceral reactions is the idea that a necro/cav marriage somehow sullies the spiritual beauty and purity of cavaliership with its unacceptable introduction of the erotic. There's something terribly poignant about Harrow having this reaction even watching Abigail and Magnus' chaste kiss, and what a deeply internalised sense of shame she must have about her own feelings.

But it also makes me wonder how often Abigail and Magnus had to police their behaviour. Because even if their relationship is tolerated, it will always be interpreted less charitably. There's just something very sad about imagining high protocol situations with Magnus silently walking half a step behind Abigail, both very aware of the need to make sure that they embody one relationship and not the other.

It all happens rather in passing in the middle of the plot picking up, but it's a poignant little moment of Harrow grappling with the implications of her and Gideon, what their relationship has been and has become, and what it perhaps will be.

[seawardboundsammy]

anybody else ever think about dizzy and her complicated relationship to gender... anybody else ever think about metatextual transfem aria via justice and how often gender is a "human" thing and dizzy is not human, is a gear, but still has to function within human ideas of gender and this impacts how she thinks she should act because she wants people to be kind to her and not see her as a monster and she is afraid of necro's aggressiveness (monstrous and masculine) and is shielded by undine (very feminine and protective) but now in strive she is more confident and comfortable in herself and she is no longer afraid of necro and that side of herself and accepts and understands them both equally and she isn't hiding anymore and she has made a place safe for her family, for people like her, and the dawn is RADIANT CAN ANYONE HEAR ME

[ahollowgrave]

Hiiiii Pigeon!!!! I saw you comment that you like the Locked Tomb series so I had a couple questions to ask...

Are Odette's little skele friends inspired by the vibe of the series?

Does Odette herself have an inspirations that come from the Locked Tomb as well?

What's your favorite character interaction in the series so far? (Mine is the Harrow Bone Soup)

Who is your favorite of the main protags? (I've got a soft spot for Nona, but its barely above the other two.)

That's all for now, hope your day is going well! ^.^

Oh my gosh hello!! The Locked Tomb has been my favorite series since I read the first book a few years ago! I was obsessed I was full in I hadn’t been that into reading since high school when I would read in the back of every class. Never has a book made me ugly cry so hard.

The second book is the main reason I write in 2nd person POV for Odette most of the time (‘:

I’m gonna slap the rest of this under a readmore just in case people don’t want to hear about the books or don’t want things spoiled on accident !! But also this kind of turned into a long explanation of Odette’s whole deal, sorry (mwah).

But! To answer your questions!

1&2:) Yes. Pretty heavily but maybe not obviously? Like. Harrow and Odette would not get a long and Odette as she is does not fit the Necromancer vibes of the ninth house. But I was so enamored by these goth nuns being so out of place and so devoted and Harrow being so!!!!! Ready to ruin her life for her faith because she needed her faith so badly to cope with the grief.

And then the way it just all!!!! gestures.

Odette was always going to be a nun, as a result, and the psychopomp stuff felt right after I’d been playing her for a while. We run into Ashkin/undead several times in the MSQ, side quests, and fates and the like; someone being able to aid these ‘souls’ and return them to the lifestream feels like a role for Odette.

She would maybe make more sense being a nun of Nald’thal but I headcanon that each of the 12 have their own funeral rites. Nald’thal is the judge of all dead, that is his role! But each of the 12 get a say in how their faithful are laid to rest. A psycopomp’s role, traditionally, is not judgement but guidance and love knows no judgement, but she does know guidance.

The moths in her screenshots are souls themselves, flocking to Odette for aid in whatever form that means. Sometimes it means slaying their body so they can rest, sometimes it means cleaning their resting place or returning items stolen by graverobbers, sometimes it means finishing anything unfinished they have left, or solving their death or just finding them and laying them to rest. Each soul needs something different.

The skeletons originally were a metaphor and a call back to that root influence of the Ninth house. With encouragement from friends, though, they’ve become much more ‘real’ in her canon. Serving as her trust and guardians on more dangerous searches. (When None can’t join her but also sometimes with None!)

So you can see it’s a very loose influence, but the 1st book is 100% the reason Odette exists. Death nuns??? Please… What a gift.

I have a Locked Tomb AU with my friend, peep, in which Odette is the Ninth house Cav and Avidia the Third House Reject turned Ninth House Necromancer. The Cav/Necromancer relationship is sooo intense and I love reading into to them too much, as does peep, so it’s very fun for us. Would third house ever send one of their necro to the ninth house? No! Probably not! But Avidia must always be a reluctant ex-pat, and so! (It’s a complicated story but we really like it LMAO takes place far before the first book)

Ahem!

3:) The soup scene is SO good, I reread it a few times because it was just so!!! Amazing. This is such a hard question because so many of the scenes are so good.

Three-Way with God is good. Ianthe’s Arm Scene (SCREAMS!!!) The pool scene from book one is ofc a fav but ugh.

The one I think about the most is from book three and it’s a tie, I think, between tree moments at the very end of the book.

Paul’s (re?)birth and “You can’t take loved away.” and “Why are you not appeased? That is how meat loves meat.”

I can’t wait for Alecto the Ninth, truthfully !!

4:) GOSH! This is hard also!!! Nona is also a favorite of mine and I know she has influenced Odette heavily. She’s just so!!! Nona loves you!!! I hope we get to see some of her again, just glimpses, now that she’s been returned. Sobs into my hands for four days straight.

I think Camilla Hect is one of my favorites and Sex Pal, of course. Which means Paul… Paul… my love I can’t wait to know you.

You didn’t ask this question, but I do think there is a lot of Hect in my alt Prudence. That quiet competence and skill, that devotion, that dry wit.

Thank you so much for this ask and also your patience while I replied to it! I love these books very, very much and I always love to talk about them. Are any of your characters influenced by them @eorzeanflowers?

[disregardcanon]

additional thoughts about a yellowjackets tlt OG lyctors au

okay so our pairs are in necro then cav order

lottie as john and laura lee as alecto

natalie and misty

travis and javi

shauna and jackie

tai and akilah

van and crystal

mari and gen

okay so: thought process on these. i already did lottie and laura lee in another post. before lottie Does The Thing, they're a ragtag group of people trying to save the world.

lottie, shauna, and travis are the science team. they're a weird bunch but like. it's A Thing. shauna was always bound for big things and travis is a nerd, and it just kinda Works TM. there's a level of resentment from lottie towards both of their hangers-on, jackie the "best friend" who works in finances and somehow makes shauna (SHAUNA!) feel inadequate and javi, the younger brother who's an artist.

tai's is shauna's friend who's a lawyer that she brings on, and then her partner van comes on with her and since she's a mid-level youtuber she gets the word out. akilah is tai's dedicated mentee and a promising young lawyer, and it's really good to have all of them.

nat is lottie's childhood friend, a former "burnout" and current musician and climate change activist. misty is a research doctor, a citizen detective, and nat's BIGGEST FAN! nat tries her best to not encourage her, but when she gets word from lottie that they're working on this project that's related to climate change and trying to stop it, she comes on board with the project IMMEDIATELY and she can't beat misty off of it with a stick. most people don't like misty much, but she's a skilled asset and they're not gonna throw that away either.

mari is a big time mlm girlie and gets in touch with these people to try to do marketing and then ends up SUPER into the cult. gen and crystal are the first members of her downline and they come too

post-resurrection

nat, tai, jackie, and shauna are the ones who are the most... skeptical about the circumstances surrounding this rebirth. lottie is very much Charlotte the Benevolent Compound Priestess, but something feels... off to them, where it doesn't quite as much to the others.

shauna and jackie's circumstances are carefully crafted to invert the ways that their relationship made her feel small and jealous and project that onto jackie instead. and they both feel like something is kind of... off. but they don't know exactly what or how.

misty is The Most Sacrificial Cav to Ever Sacrificial Cav. like this is misty. she's going full cristabel. are you KIDDING ME!?!?! she figures out the secret to getting nat to ascend to lyctorhood and then drags crystal and javi into it. so we get... nat, travis, and van who've all ascended and are different levels of messed up about it.

van didn't know crystal very well and is able to conceptualize this as A Good Thing Actually TM? in a way that's a lot less complicated than nat and travis and she tries to help them process it, but like. it is VERY different for her. nat and travis are both experiencing very complicated grieving processes about people that were important to them. like javi is travis's baby brother his responsibility HIS person that he was supposed to protect but this is where they are now... and he can't help blaming misty (because of course it was misty who convinced him to do it). and nat feels responsible for JAVI'S death because she should have realized what misty was doing. she should have talked her out of this, somehow. she should have made her feel valued beyond a power boost and a sacrifice. (but misty is misty! and that makes things really hard!) and nat and travis get this in a way that van Does Not and they're awful on-and-off again immortal lovers about it.

after nat travis and van become lyctors, the others try to find Literally Any Other Way. but they can't. as things heat up, jackie and shauna start having some awful fights. like, absolutely atrocious fights. jackie's really not been doing any of the cav stuff because she's just bad at it and she's angry that this is the role she got assigned and something feels WRONG about all of this. and then they have a really awful nasty fight and jackie kills herself spitefully, like oh, you don't need me? then take my death. either use it or let it be for nothing. your move, shipman

and it is very, very ugly.

mari kills gen. she feels kinda bad about it, but it doesn't stop her. that leaves tai and akilah.

tai and akilah, for one, are the only pair left. and that makes the rest of the survivors... pretty petty towards them. it's mainly just because of their own grief, but oh boy. it is hard. van's just like tai. everyone else is getting very upset about this. i think you two should just go through with it. and tai's like oh my god NO! this is akilah. this is my friend. it's not my fault that you weren't friends with your cav. and that gets them into an ugly fight

tai and akilah almost crack perfect lyctorhood, and lottie.. has to stop them. make it happen the way it was "supposed to". but tai still feels how close she came, and years and years later when a new generation of lyctors come up and there's one that's not quite Normal. well. she's got a suspicion why

[thanergetic-hyperlinks]

But also… there isn't a current BoE “society”. They an insurgent group who doesn't have a single planet under their control, and they seemingly never have.

Most of the info we have on BoE and their relationship with the billionaire ships is fragmented across HtN, AYU and especially NtN, and I think there's many aspects that fans miss, or which are hard to piece together into a coherent picture. I'll try here:

The people in the billionaire ships haven't been co-existing in the universe for 10,000 years. We don't know when the first ships emerged from hyperspace, but BoE started existing 4,000-5,000 years into the Empire's founding (whether initially started by ship descendants, or by shepherd planet subjects, or by Cassiopeia, etc. is yet to be determined). We only know they do exist because of the mix of cultures in New Rho and because Wake seems to be related to them. And John seems to be waiting for the last few ships to emerge, so he can finish his revenge quest and restart the world. They have never established a society as such—all the inhabited planets in the known universe are under Empire control.

We have no idea whether the billionaires themselves continued being powerful once they popped into the present—it is perfectly possible that the workers they brought with them staged uprisings, or that they demanded modern democratic structures in their ships once un-cryo'd. Looking at BoE, this seems likely to me. They haven't spend hundreds or thousands of years perpetuating Silicon Valley neoliberal culture. Still, they either got eraddicated by John once they manifested in current spacetime, or absorbed into the shepherd planets, or they're somewhere in deep space and we know little about them.

Commander Wake mentions her “long lost natal sun”, hinting at her having been born on Earth. She has been operative in the TLT universe for about 30 years as part of BoE, so she might have been from a ship that popped into space recently, 30-50 years go, or her body might have been in cryo until recently.

That quote by Wake could be misleading, as perhaps she refers to a different natal sun that was killed when her planet was evacuated. Still, usually they don't mess with stars so I think she meant Earth and we're meant to think that in HtN, especially given she seems to know about the Earth and John's actions. If she was cryo'd as a child or teen, she might have even experienced the original end of the world, and might even remember John from the media.

So… yeah. There isn't really a BoE society per se. They're just a small faction operative mostly in exocolonies, trying to agitate and use the discontent along mistreated Empire subjects, who make up most of their members—many of them presumably descendants of captured billionaire ship crews. It's unclear how much they remember or misconstrue about Earth society—there's the Angel, attending secret archeology lessons. They might only get to be joined by original Earthlings with actual memories of Earth every few thousand years at best, if a new ship shows up and they manage to make contact at all. Commander Wake showing up 30 years ago and getting BoE nukes and several important military victories might be thanks to her being from a recent ship and not having lost certain Earth knowledge.

(As for the ethics of Blood of Eden… I think it's very clear in Nona that their political aims and their methods are complicated and sometimes downright ghastly, from Unjust Hope burning people alive as part of mass hysteria to Wake saying shooting necros in the head is 10% superstition and 90% personal pleasure. I think TLT is doing something much richer and more interesting than “bad empire where everyone is evil vs. hot sexy guerrilla fighters who are always right and whose violence is always justified”.)

on the subject of boe it's bizarre when people act like blood of eden being potentially descended from trillionaires has some relation to the structure of their current society. like that was ten thousand years ago. if your mesopotamian ancestor patented domesticating cows and was absolutely swimming in copper that has literally no bearing on your life today

[hafula]

Thoughts on paul? Both as a reader and. From a system perspective

forgive me for how long this is in advance. i didnt realize when i started it so its going under readmore.

okay. god. paul made me EMOTIONAL like idk it was so everything with them sprinkling hints to whatever the fuck they got going on and all theyre doing to keep in contact when they cant be present in the same time, and when palamedes finally possessed naberius and kicked out ianthe and they had a Moment and they kept having Moments and it made so much sense for them to merge their souls completely. a new type of lyctorship. like it wasnt two bodies independent and it wasnt the adept absorbing their cav, it was just completely melding to become one person and i like how they highlighted that they Were camilla and palamedes, now theyre literally camilla-and-palamedes while not being specifically either of them but the sum of both in a new person you can still recognize. pure and utter 2 way street sort of devotion shit. this is what lyctorship should have been to me. it really should have been combining two separate souls into one, instead of a power imbalance or being split apart in such a way. idet john and alectos lyctorhood would be achievable for Literally Anyone Else though just bc of how it was described... i digress. i really do think it all goes back to devotion and the deep and unspoken bond between a necro and their cav... it all goes back.. it all goes back

anyway that also ties in with the system aspect for me though bc im an alter whose gone under fusion with another part before and its like.. yes we used to be two different parts but we were at a point where integration was safe and now instead of being either part were both in very complicated and nuanced ways. new person while also not at all. and bouncing back to before the merge it is quite a stereotypical thing for parts to interact through recordings and letters, but like... its a stereotype for a reason. i find notes from my alters usually in our discord server. when the dissociations too bad its like the only way we can communicate unless we go through connor or take to journalling. but it never felt impressed upon as weird or anything to really truly note upon in the sensationalized way other did allegories in medias tend to do, and theyre Literally sharing the same body since palamedes is a spooky ghost. also i said it before but the smooth transitions between pal and cam were my favorite part of it all because you really couldnt tell until pal stepped out of line with what other Extremely Fucking Observant Weirdos expected of cam. the one time they visibly switched was when the jig was up anyway which like! it works then! it didnt feel cheap! i loved paul!! every second!! i never found myself worrying where itd go because it didnt go anywhere—tmuir stayed in her lane even if she was unaware of it, displayed an incredibly complicated character relationship well, and didnt make any jabs that could have been ableist. i dont think it could have ended up any other way to me, paul is like one of my fav ntn characters i think.

tl;dr pauls my best friend and tmuir still stays winning in my book. no real objections from me from my first readthru, though if i pick it up again ill update to see if that changes.

[camgoloud]

inside problems + 11?

11: What do you like best about this fic?

Oh, this is the HARD question—but I think my favorite thing about it is probably what I tried to do with the Pyrrha-Pal relationship. It’s just so complicated and MESSY: how does Pyrrha handle looking at Palamedes, who is maybe the Only person in the world who understands her exact situation re: hanging out in your best friend’s body after dying on their behalf, but ALSO represents the necro half of a necro-cav dynamic, which… I mean. Pyrrha used to be the cav half of that dynamic, right? And I don’t think she necessarily resents G1deon for the Way Things Went Down 10000 years ago—we know she died willingly and it’s not like G1deon had any way of knowing that there was another path to Lyctorhood, but… still. He still did very much kill and eat her, you know? That was a thing that happened. And now here’s Palamedes, squatting in HIS cav’s head burning her life force and plugging away at Lyctorhood 2.0, which we KNOW Pyrrha doesn’t trust is actually all that meaningfully different than Lyctorhood 1.0 in terms of “do the component parts of the Lyctor (especially the cav) actually benefit from the process?” so.

One of the joke tags I slapped on this one was “who does pyrrha kin harder: cam or pal? answer NOT to be found here but the question sure is raised” and like. Yes, that was a joke, but also I kind of meant it? I just think there are a LOT of complicated feelings there. I think Pyrrha really loves Pal (and Cam, of course!) and wants what’s best for both of them because she sees so much of herself in both of them. but then, because of their whole Situation™️, it’s kind of impossible for her to see a way that either of them can actually get what’s best for them—if Pal gets ahold of the body more permanently then Cam necessarily loses it; if Pal goes for good in an attempt to spare Camilla then everyone involved knows deep-down that Cam probably won’t last much longer before she follows him anyway… so it becomes a whole issue for Pyrrha where she’s not even really sure what she WANTS as a resolution because there just aren’t any good endings. Canon-Palamedes was right when he called Paul “the best and truest and kindest thing [they] can do” given the constraints they’re facing, but… even Paul was in many ways a pretty tragic ending, in my opinion. Right for them, but that doesn’t mean it hurts any less—for the reader but also for Pyrrha herself.

The hardest scene by far to write in this was the one where Pyrrha and Pal argue with each other over the way he treats Cam’s body re: hangnails, but it’s definitely the one I’m proudest of. If anyone gets me started about What Exactly It All Means Line-By-Line I will literally never stop talking and be glad of the excuse, but I think the part that really says it all is the very end: Pyrrha essentially says “it’s not enough to necromantically heal her hangnails like that’s solving the fundamental problem of you killing her by inches just by being around” and Pal says “of course it’s not enough, but what else can I do? I didn’t actually choose to be in this situation” and Pyrrha finally replies with “Neither did I, kid”… it’s just!! aghhhh the (maybe reluctant initially, but ultimately genuine) kinship that they have is Something Else, and I hope I was able to do it justice in this moment and in the final scene where Pyrrha acknowledges Pal as a part of her family… this is way too many words in response to this ask I am well aware, but it turns out I have a lot of feelings on this dynamic! Who knew!

Thanks for asking!

[ask game here]

[ariniekat]

Yess. Kick uni's ass instead. Write those fics. The classic paranoia couple. Poor transporters car! Rb immune roles who love to drink and yap to the tavern keeper.

Hehe, many fun thoughts. For mine, In the fluffier side, Medusa/VM - My VM is blind so unaffected by the stone gaze, it kinda came as a silly idea but then just stuck with me, they have sort of Adams family vibes, so devoted to each other but so strange and a lil twisted.

Hex/Rit - Artist x Writer, Creative and muse. Hex is a somber artist and Rit is a writer with a perfectionist god complex ("If i am not perfect then I am worthless" attitude, wanted to make blood ritual backfiring a complex to rit's personality.) I just really like artist x writer tropes. Hehe. Necro/Retri - annoyed x annoying. My masc retri is an eccentric little shit who likes seeing what makes people tick and looves annoying the necromancer like a sassy little cat. Necromancer is usually reserved and stoic finds this guy often sees through and even invokes rather strong feelings (and they ain't happy about being made to feel!) Vet/Coroner - Old men actually trying to start something new after past relationships. My coroner is an old widower (who's son might be a member of the mafia but don't tell him he'll find that out when the body shows up on his work slab), while Vet's fiancé was killed by a WW. (Vet did have military skills, during the mad kings reign but was primarily a sort of beast/mage hunter.) Vet moved into the town to look after his Niece after his sister had an accident that put her in a coma, it's the only thing he actually stayed alive for, the two are neighbours and are kinda clumsily becoming friends and more. Vet is very paranoid because he blames himself for the people he's lost. He also has night terrors and insomnia.

Invest/jailor - They're mutually pinning for each other but refuse to progress it, Jailor keeps a very low profile of his identity and doesn't want to complicate their work relationship, he also doesn't want to put investigator at more risk if the wrong people find out about it. Keeping it "professional" and only getting stolen moments, as they both overwork dramatically, hypocrites when they nudge and remind the other to eat or sleep. Honourable mentions to Conj/jailor and Conj/invest (I shall make conj/jailor/invest polycule and the world can fight me, conj shall be smitten with the two people so dangerous to be close too.) , Cleric/Retri (Devotee x non believer) and Trapper/Tracker <3 (my friend offered the cutest lil thing for them so they're now stuck in my brain too. Our shared custody ship lmao.) Trickster/Vigi tickles my brain also sometimes - They both work in the theatre in my world (Trickster is a stunt/escape artist, and Vigi is basically the ticket booth runner, bro needed a basic day job to pay the bills and they don't do background checks. He also does a lot of the cleanup and prop management.) annoying x annoyed kinda, they definitely hooked up once or twice. In a different tone Marsh/soci are divorced in my world, they have sass with each other. I enjoy their sass. They're very cute and I just wanted to go for the exes that may or may not get back together.

I could throw more around, I do like multishipping and brainworms, haha :P

Kinda criminal that admirer has no real fics on Ao3, tbh. A role designed for love and shipping and where are their romances, the sentimental lovers, the toxic relationships!

Smh, town so small we gotta cook our own food. Admirer deserves kisses and now I add more to my WIP/prompts to do list.

On an additional note you guys should tell me about your favourite TOS pairings, spill those dynamics, ur blorbos, lemme see. I wanna hear about the skrunklies.

[your-pal-nebula]

Haven't come on here in a while but I have a message

Genuinely thank so much to everyone on here who's been nice to A/N. Without going into specifics he's really not having a very good time right now for a lot of reasons He even sometimes tries to avoid even talking to me anymore because it's so terrified of being a burden when it's literally my life too As he's mentioned before the two of us have a very complicated relationship and it's a long story we might explain someday but rest assured I care about A/N. I care about xem a lot So thank you to everyone on here who's so nice to my guy

-Necro

[unlikely-course]

The tl;drs of this very long post, which is about Gideon’s arc and her relationship to Harrow:

-Gideon’s arc in gtn is a corruption arc because tlt is not just goth but Gothic

-Gideon “forgives” Harrow because of Trauma and that’s definitely not the endpoint of how she feels about Harrow or their past

-The narrative knows what it’s doing

When Gideon says “For the Ninth!” as she dies, and thinks “this is the loyalty they always said I lacked, this is me making good” that’s not growth, that’s part of the tragedy of the moment. Like, the Ninth does not deserve her allegiance! It is, as Gideon was the first to remind us, rotten to the core. When she dies, it’s for Harrow, and her saying it’s for the Ninth does represent on some level that she’s come to new understanding about who Harrow is and how Harrow views herself *as* the Ninth, but like this is, I mean. Bad. Harrow herself does not deserve Gideon’s loyalty! Gideon gives it to her because it is a relief. Gideon is very good, yes, but the forgiveness is a response to trauma. The second Harrow shows even the slightest vulnerability or regard for Gideon, Gideon is eager to make amends because she has been starved for any positive association to others for her entire life, and Harrow was literally the only peer she ever had to associate with. She correctly identified that resistance to Ninth society was vital to her survival and selfhood, but also that shit is exhausting. That resistance is also partially formed by that society conveying to her: we have no place for you, we have no use for you as you are, and that makes you hateful to us.

Her response to Harrow and the cavalier role then is pretty classic! It is a relief to have a place, to be able to stop fighting, to give herself over to a structure sold to her as one in which she can support and be supported, to resolve the central conflict and most complicated relationship of her life. I maintain that you the reader are also supposed to feel initially relieved and even cheered by Gideon and Harrow growing closer and then gradually unsettled when Gideon embraces cavalierhood and the increasingly invasive demands of the trials, and has her mindset adjusted in increments toward sacrifice. To feel her thoughts turn in this direction is alarming! This is purposeful, and it is purposefully mixed in with good feelings, the same good feelings that Gideon is getting, to distract from and inoculate you against what is happening just as Gideon is inoculated against it.

In addition, Canaan House is a very particular crucible. This is not only the first time that Gideon has ever been bombarded with new people and experiences, but also the first time she’s faced these unknown external threats, which pushes her to unite with the familiar (Harrow) against them. Her past and present environments have made it so that the compassion she comes to feel for Harrow gets bound up in the idea of being loyal to her house, the ‘contract’ of her new role, and the positive interaction it gives her until the idea of her offering her life to Harrow is not simply necessary in the moment but good and right. Redeeming, even, when we as readers know she has nothing she needs redemption for. 

Gideon is so very angry when she comes to in htn, and it is not merely anger at those who have wronged Harrow or anger at Harrow for endangering herself. On the First, she made a simple deal: her life for relief from the emotional state she had to live it in. Forgiveness for some kind of peace. And when she wakes up that exchange is refuted. Gideon frames Harrow’s actions as a rejection of herself out of low self-esteem but also in an attempt to deal with unresolved anger she has towards Harrow, anger that cannot fit into the cavalier role she wants to embody, anger that she attempted to trade away but in actuality can’t. Because the role she was sold, the type of relationship the cavalier and necro is supposed to be, is ultimately false. It encompasses very real and deep relationships, as we have seen, but the framework uses these real elements to its own ends, the Empire’s ends, and despite its proclamations of mutual care the relationship is always at the cavalier’s expense.

This is what it means to say Gideon’s arc in gtn is a corruption arc. It’s not that she becomes “bad,” it’s that the corrupting forces of the narrative have reached out and altered her, worn her down, seduced her even. This is Gideon’s first contact with the wider Empire, in the seat and seed of its wretched power, and it has used her goodness, her capacity for connection (and yes for forgiveness as well!) against her to further ensnare her, to draw her in line with itself. And then she dies for it, as it demands! Wow. And the we have the other side of that, which is when Gideon says “For the Ninth!” she’s signaling to Harrow that she has come to value what Harrow values, just as Harrow herself, watching in horror, has come to realize her values are very fucked up.

And Harrow has indeed realized that by that time! Harrow really does travel such a distance in gtn, but this is largely obscured from us just the same as plot details are in the book, by the limits of Gideon’s perception. And let me be clear: this is a feature, not a bug. It is not a weakness. It is vital! Integral! To the above, and all it entails for Gideon as a character and the overall themes of the series, that Gideon forgive Harrow without Harrow having “earned” it or made real amends. The fact that she does conveys to us everything I’ve just been talking about!

Furthermore, this story is in conversation with a rather particular type of Christianity, but Gideon’s Jesus parallels are even more widely applicable. Forgiveness is kind of a whole theme with that guy, and the book is also plenty interested in what it costs for a human to forgive as divinely as scripture demands (to forgive as the bond demands, as the empire demands). In some ways there are good things that may come of it, sure, but it is not a purely redemptive force for the giver or receiver. It does not necessarily resolve.

I myself can’t say that I ship Gideon and Harrow in the way people traditionally think of shipping, nor as I have traditionally shipped other characters. Still, I reject the notion that that way of relating to each other is not a central part of the questions the book is asking. Like before, when I was talking about Gideon finding something to believe in in the way the adept/cavalier bond is sold to her—although we see that bond encompass many different types of relationships it is in Gideon and Harrow’s case speaking to how romantic love (much like that forgiveness!) is not immediately and entirely redemptive. I mean, Muir does say the series is about how love can be redemptive, but I think can be is the operative phrase here, in that it’s also first demonstrating the ways it’s not, or at least not always the way we think it will be--the limits and then the power. Trying to set that aspect of the relationship aside (like a “sisters” route or something similar) is a weak and queasy side-stepping of the issue.

Remember that interview where Muir says something along the lines of like, she didn’t write it as necessarily romantic but definitely homoerotic? Yeah. 

Despite all that I do want to make it clear that I hope Gideon and Harrow work it out in the end. Just don’t assume the narrative does not understand what working it out might entail. And who knows? I might have the read all wrong. Maybe Muir doesn’t understand what she’s doing. But I feel pretty compelled by the textual evidence.

[starwarsepisodeiv]

it does occur to me. kiriona is gideon, this isn't about souls or body swapping or anything, but. kiriona is gideon with no necromancer. gideon whose entire identity isn't being a cav/battery to harrow. in a book that deals with the necro-cav relationship very directly, we see kiriona-as-herself as opposed to one half of the pair of harrowhark-gideon. and she has a father. sucks that the father is john, but someone (theoretically) loves her as their child now. and i know we're upset about gideon v. kiriona in terms of naming, because it's 'not gideon', and there is something to be said about john naming her and the parallels with alecto. but also. what was gideon nav? a borrowed name. nav is a ninth house name. we see gideon embrace it in the end, but that doesn't erase the fact that it was slapped on her for convenience's sake and she's always had a complicated relationship with it. then there's gideon. it's not even her name. it's the name of the man who murdered her mother, who could have been her father, screamed out in rage by the dredged-up, trapped soul of said mother. her other birth name is bomb. kiriona has a name of her own now, and we're sad about it. mad about it. we want her to get back with harrow - because gideon wants her back - but we also know cavs and their necros are deeply codependent in a damaging way. so we walk the fine line between wanting what may be best for kiriona (independence, self-identity) and honoring gideon's wishes (to be consumed by harrow). i don't even think there's a right answer. but i've seen lots of 'gideon got what she wanted and it sucks', and yes that's true i don't dispute it, but there's another reading where like. she is free. she is not bound to her necromancer, to live and die for her. she has her own name, as much as she can. and maybe it all falls apart, but i wanted to sit and confront my own deep-seated wish for gideon and harrow to find each other. the last time that happened, gideon died to force harrow to eat her. as far as we know, she still wants that. i want to honor her desires. i want her to be more than a meal. she was born a snack. whatever.

[ace-trainer-risu]

okay, so i’ve been meaning to ask for awhile, but i’d love to hear your official rec/review for gideon the ninth. i know i will read it eventually, but i love hearing your thoughts and would love to know why you enjoy it so much :)

ohh YES! Thank you for asking me!! Gideon the Ninth is one of my absolute favorite books right now and I just finished re-reading it, so very happy to talk about it!

Gideon the Ninth by Tamsyn Muir is the first in a series, The Locked Tomb, originally meant to be a trilogy but recently announced to now be a quartet (!). It's...so hard to summarize, but here goes:

In the sci fi fantasy empire of the Nine Houses, ten thousand years after an apocalyptic event lead to the death and resurrection of everyone living in the system, necromancy is real and swordplay is a revered art. The Ninth House, a shitty little death cult on the edge of the system with an ancient secret at its heart, lead by the Reverend Daughter Harrowhark and unhappily inhabited by our heroine, Gideon Nav, is on the verge of falling into disrepair, when Harrow receives an invitation from the Emperor/God himself. God, by the way, is named John and has a Kiwi accent. Harrow and her cavalier primary (a sword fighter sworn to protect and serve a necromancer) are invited along with all the other heirs of the Nine Houses to come to Canaan House, a decaying mansion on the long abandoned planet of the First House, to try and rediscover the ancient secrets of the Lyctors, powerful immortal(ish) necromantic saints. There's a few problems, however. For one thing, Harrow doesn't have a proper cavalier and Gideon is Harrow's next best choice...mainly because Harrow and Gideon are the only people alive on the Ninth House under the age of 50 (and frankly, neither of them should be alive either). Unfortunately, Gideon and Harrow hate each other very much. For another thing, it seems like not all of the heirs of the Nine Houses are really who they say they are. Oh and also, someone seems to be trying to kill all of them before they can uncover Lyctorhood. So that complicates things.

Like this story truly has it all. It's a love story. It's a gothic romance. It's a space opera. It's a murder mystery. There is a simply ridiculous amount of skeletons. Also it's queer AF.

UGH its just so good in every single aspect! It's incredibly suspenseful, the writing is amazing, the characters are just! *chef's kiss!* There's so many good and interesting and compelling characters. It's extremely funny and there are a ton of meme references scattered throughout the books. You Will Experience the Full Range of Human Emotion. The setting is so cool and weird and richly described. Canaan House is extremely haunted and extremely gross and I would like to go there very much. There's so many mysteries which are so fascinating to unravel. It was fascinating to re-read the books because there were so many things on the first read through that were just like. Wha? but on the second read through made sense! But also plenty of things left over that are still...Wha???

But probably the best part in my opinion is the cavalier necromancer bond! One flesh one END! Basically, all of the main necromancer characters have/had an associated cavalier primary, and this is an incredibly central, important, profound plot point. It is not an exaggeration to say that just about everything in these novels centers on the cavalier necromancer bond, and it's so fucking good, it's like Pacific Rim Drift compatibility but with swords and dead bodies (altho. I guess to be fair Pacific Rim also has swords and dead bodies? Anyway GtN can do Drift compatibility and PR can do one flesh one end). And much like Pacific Rim, there's a lot of different kinds of cavalier/necro bonds shown, which is great, there's romantic relationships, a married couple, best friends, ride-or-die, fucked-up twins, siblings, a super weird uncle and nephew, unrequited love, enemies-to-lovers...like at its heart its about trust and lovE and also SWORDS and how is that not the best thing????

Plus, there's a ton of casual canonical queer rep and a haunted-house load of interesting female characters, and yet at the same time it's very casual about it, it's not a Thing it's just like, of course these characters are queer, of course all these female characters are (literally) kick ass, duh! Like it's by no means wrong for a story to be About being queer or About being a woman, but at the same GOD its so sexy how this story is first and foremost a gothic space opera...in which the majority of the characters happen to be queer and female. To be clear, its not like the queerness is sidelined. To the contrary, a significant amount of the plot revolves around a bizarre love polygon in which all the participants are girls. It's just that it's not about the fact that they're all the same gender, its more about the fact that at any given moment, at least one member of the love polygon is uhhhh dead. Undead? Not alive. (And before you worry - It could not in any fairness be considered Bury Your Gays because the dead very much refuse to stay buried in this series, also there's barely any explicitly straight characters and they very much do also die.)

I feel like I can't even do it proper justice, but it's just such a rollicking good time. When I read GtN for the first time it was like March of 2020 (which, yes, I did read this directly before lockdown in my state so that's very weird in my head) and I read it and thought, this is going to be one of the best books I have read all year. And I got to the end of the year and I was like Hrngngng oof ouch 2020 but also I was like Yup, I was right. Read Gideon the Ninth and read Harrow the Ninth because they will be some of the best books you have read all year.

(altho also there is much potential triggers so please read with caution)

anyway uhhh TLDR: Gideon the Ninth is the first volume in the Locked Tomb which is an extremely fun, suspenseful, twisty book series featuring all the big Ss: skeletons, swords, soup, sex pal, sapphic girls, some mysteries, smemes...in SPACE. Please read it, it is good.

[intp-energy]

Why Raelle and Scylla’s relationship works

So I felt like I needed to get this off my chest because of how some people are perceiving and reacting to their relationship right now. This is a long read, so brace yourself. :)

I like their relationship and while some may feel that their story was rushed or that they don’t have chemistry, we’ll have to look at the characters in isolation from each other.

Raelle. We have to remember that Raelle’s mother died just a year ago. She is still grieving and to be able to find someone you connect with and understands what you’re going through is a rare thing for her. To find someone who can make you feel like you want to live and to live everyday is very difficult if you’re grieving so when she found Scylla, she was thrown a lifeline and was given purpose to continue on. That would develop a certain co-dependence, which I think Scylla was really banking on given her initial objective. We also need to understand where Raelle grew up and how she grew up. Her father is human and in their world, that’s something that’s frowned upon. She was most likely considered weird — so again, to find someone as weird [or as sexy weird] as you, is a rare thing and you would want to cherish and protect that relationship. So when it came to the wedding, despite Scylla crashing it (which, yes, may not be proper etiquette - but remember, their world has different rules. Who knew that you’d have to enter into a contract just to keep a man for 5 years? Scylla participated in the wedding and was beside Raelle when the binding took place, so eventually, it kind of wasn’t really a big deal anymore), Raelle was very bleh about the reactions of Abigail and Tally. She was already very angry at the beginning when she couldn’t bring Scylla, would you really think she’ll be worried about what Abigail thought?

A whole lot of people thought Raelle was very selfish and didn’t think about her unit and that her unit should always be her focus. Apart from the reasons I gave above (being so deeply inlove and connected to another person who you would LIVE for; “I like doing everything because of you.”), we have to empathize with Raelle and figure out what she’s feeling. For me, I think before she met Scylla, she’s basically just forced into the institution that killed her mother and has no choice but to comply “I hate to break it to you, beautiful, but there is NO WAY OUT.” That feeling of helplessness will destroy anybody. Heck, she even wanted to go to the front line as soon as possible, had it not been made clear to her that she will be taking Tally and Abigail down with her. She doesn’t want to be there, but she also doesn’t want to be responsible for Tally and Abigail being in danger. She is still innately a healer, so helping others is a calling — just not a strong enough calling for her to want to live for it, but enough to not make her screw things up for her unit.

We’ve also been shown her family tree and it was a very small one. Having a bloodline that short could be very lonely and could make her believe that she was simply meant to just perish like all of her other ancentors. There wasn’t really a point in continuing, 1) she’s gay and will not get pregnant unless she wanted to, 2) she sees being a witch as somewhat of a curse (remember that she has a human dad, meaning she knows what it’s like to have a “normal” life and not be doomed to answer to a call that will come when you’re 18), and 3) if I were her, why would I want my children to suffer the same fate as our family had, I would rather end the bloodline. She is grieving and if you think it’ll take a mere year to get over someone so close to you, then you have a very good coping mechanism, unfortunately, not a lot of people get that because while you may have a good support system, grieving is still a process. She has no one, she only has her father who is grieving with her. It was meant to spiral.

Scylla. I think I’ve made my point about grief and like Raelle, Scylla is grieving. Her parents were killed and unlike Raelle who used depression as a coping mechanism, she used anger. She may very well have joined the Spree because of anger and because she wants to destroy the institution that took her family. If you have no one, yes, it feels lonely, but it also feels like nothing else matters. It feels like this blind hatred and revenge will somehow compensate for the grief and loneliness that you’re feeling. Maybe it’s also meant to dampen that sadness and convert that into something greater, something worth fighting for. She believes, as a dodger (always remember that she’s a dodger, she grew up with different ideals), that witches should have a choice and that choice is taken away because of the accord made hundreds of years ago. She believes that by joining the Spree, she could save the lives of the witches who were killed and hunted (like her family) because they wanted to be free. At this point, I don’t even want to comment on her redemption arc because we don’t even know which deaths she was directly responsible for. And again, I’m not making up excuses for her, but she truly believes in the cause and may believe that she’s saving more lives in the long run than the number of lives the Spree is taking. When I think about Scylla and the bad things she did, I think about Regina Mills, who took how many seasons to get the redemption she deserves. I don’t see why we can’t give Scylla the same. I don’t even want to go into the rabbit hole that is Villanelle and Eve. If you want to define toxic, that’s the pair, but it’s oh so delicious to watch, isn’t it?

I would like to point out that as dodgers, we know that Scylla would have been a social pariah. That was a very lonely way of living and was very self-deprecating; add the loss of her parents and she’s just a mess. As Helen Graves, she told Raelle that she’s weird, spooky, and generally separated from others because of her being a necro. She was very hopeful though because she wanted Raelle to be patient with her as she opens up. And to find someone who is very much willing to do that, that must’ve felt like she struck gold, but here lies the complication. She has a mission and she starts to question this because she’s developed feelings for Raelle. I couldn’t imagine how it must’ve felt for Raelle to include her and make her feel like SHE BELONGS - first, by introducing her to everybody (even at the wedding), and second, by fighting for her. So her reactions to save Raelle from the Spree is very authentic and it horrifies her because by saying I love you (and I choose you), she basically signed her own death sentence or she’s basically accepting the fact that she’ll be living her life running and not belonging. AGAIN. She was prepared to do it, though, so her decision to save Raelle wasn’t rash. She already developed the connection using the spell she did. When she said that it was so that she could say hi wherever Raelle was, she was essentially saying, so that I can keep the connection even while I’m running or being tortured, whichever the case. That must have been really hard on her - saying her last I love you, knowing she might not see Raelle anymore. So we really couldn’t deny that these two love each other deeply.

Their relationship. Okay, yes, it started as a mission for Scylla and desire (or at least an effort to feel alive) for Raelle, but because of the deep connection they have based on the stuff I wrote above, it makes perfect sense how they’re portrayed right now. Scylla is terrified that loving Raelle may harm Raelle in any way or may mean her own death and Raelle is terrified of losing yet another person she loves. These are two very closed off, very scarred, very deeply emotional, grieving people who found each other despite the circumstances. Of course, they’ll be awkward or sometimes it’ll feel like they have no chemistry; well, they’re protecting themselves from getting burned - they’re closed off and being careful. They are, individually, people who’ve been shunned by the world because of their circumstances. They have very different, mostly difficult, situations and upbringing and their priorities weren’t really supposed to be about love. They weren’t expecting it, they don’t know how to deal with it or act around someone who is getting very close to them - it was NEVER in their plans. Of course, it’ll look rushed, we don’t have a lot of episodes in this season. Of course it’s weird because we’re so used to the dynamic of one bubbly person paired with a broody person. It just so happened that they paired two very complex, very introverted (most likely INTP - check out MBTI if you want to know more) characters - and we’re not used to watching that. We’re used to the chase, we’re used to the giddiness, but the reality is that these people went through hell and are both still going through a lot. And the fact that they’re depending on each other in unconventional ways is something that people see as unusual or even boring. If you step back, it’s actually very beautiful and complex. Even the exchange of gifts was seen as creepy and weird, that’s exactly the point, they ARE weird, they ARE people who other people usually misunderstand. And that’s besides the point that, again, this is a different world. Their customs are different, some of the things they’re used to is different. We’ll have to look at their world in their lens to understand it better. So I do hope that before judging the relationship, fans of the show would sit down and really think about what the characters are going through. This isn’t the feel-good movie you want to watch and just not think about. It is very well-thought of in terms of complexity and world building. This is the type of series that will take you away from your current world and your biases and show you a different perspective and an angle you may not have considered before. Give it a chance, open your mind, and take the journey with the characters.

[terezis]

What would a taz gideon the ninth au look like?

(MAJOR SPOILERS FOR HARROW THE NINTH AHEAD)

>:3!!!

okay but this is so hard because on the one hand: lup as the necromancer and taako as her cavalier, for the obvious parallels you can draw between lichdom and lyctorhood.

but then also? taako as the necromancer, and lup as his cavalier. 

one, because i think this suits their personalities better (lup has always struck me as the more 'hands-on' twin, whereas taako is more content to fall back and let his magic do the work for him.)

two, because lup has no sense of self-preservation, so she'd totally sacrifice herself to save taako without a second thought by letting him consume her soul to become a lyctor.

and three, because of those juicy, juicy parallels between harrowhark willingly forgetting gideon and taako forgetting lup, but this time he has nobody to blame for that but himself :o)

... although, i think maybe in this situation, lucretia-as-the-director would play the role of the emperor? the empress undying? so it’s possible taako would blame her, especially after the truth about lyctorhood gets out. she lied to them. she let him consume lup, and for what?

i don't know who the body would be in this case, but let's not think about it that hard. mostly i'm interested in taako and lup going to caanan house as the last heirs of the ninth, hoping that if they can please the emperor she'll renew their house and preserve their auntie's legacy. i think their aunt died when they were twelve and taako's been piloting her body around ever since, just like harrow. 

fuck, maybe they're both necromancers in this au? sort of opposite to ianthe and coronabeth’s whole deal. when they got the empress’s missive they drew straws to see who'd play the role of cavalier. so then when lup sacrifices herself it sucks extra hard for taako because he can't stop thinking that their places should have been reversed. after all, he’s selfish. lup was always the better twin. it should have been him. she deserved to live more. 

(nah, she just thought of it first!!! but try telling that to taako.)

there aren't enough characters to make this a one-to-one au, but i want barry and kravitz to be a necro-cav pairing... i think they'd be taako and lup's allies (and romantic interests) in the first "book," in a similar role to the sixth house's, but then barry eats kravitz and becomes a lyctor, so in the second "book" he's closer to ianthe.

barry and taako have a very complicated relationship in this au. they were friends. taako probably even gave barry the same pep talk about lup as he did in canon... something about how, if they achieve lyctorhood, he and lup will have all the time in the world... little did they know!!! :o)

after they both become lyctors things are a little more strained. like they ate each other's significant others, so that's kind of rough. 

before taako forgets lup, he is just a mess. he feels so guilty! he shouldn't be here and he knows it, and he thinks barry does, too... but barry doesn't even seem mad? so taako lashes out a lot at first. 

barry mostly lets it slide, because he's barry, and also because he feels bad about kravitz. i do not know why barry would have willingly eaten kravitz. please do not ask me about it. regardless, it’s kind of hard to look at him now. his eyes had been blue before... and now...

 well, you know :>

i do think barry might help taako forget lup, mostly because he’s also feeling really guilty. probably he tries harder to talk taako out of it, though.

they have an uneasy truce after that, for the most part, but sometimes, the way barry looks at him... sometimes taako comes 'round a corner at the mithraeum (the bureau?) and barry looks up with bright eyes like he's so excited to see him... and then his face falls, like taako wasn't who he was expecting. it's weird! taako tries not to think about it much.

taako passes out whenever he sees his own reflection. nosebleeds, hemorrhages from the eyes and ears, the works. this never gets any better. he smashes all of the mirrors in his bedroom.