#me and maegor are actually enemies

[quiddling]

Love the way u draw meager. angry looking cat who's evilly evil

i had no intention of drawing this man as much as i have but that is the curse of enjoying drawing men with big boobs 😔

[bohemian-nights]

I’m not team black or green, and I’m also only watching this show for nettles - but I have to say that the only racist comments I see are coming from team black. They are so racist it’s insane.

1. They treat the velaryons like Rhaenyra & her (white) son’s cheer squad . They can’t fathom the velaryons being their own people with their own thoughts and opinions.

2. Their treatment of vaemond. They justify his murder for daring to speak up against their fav. They gaslight anyone who supports vaemond’s right to be angry that his house is being stolen by a white kid and claim that Luke “legally” isn’t a bastard and that we are misogynistic.

3. Their treatment of laena - they either claim that she was Rhaenyra’s lesbian (?) lover or that daemon never cared about her - they refuse to acknowledge that daemon was happily in love with her.

4. Their treatment of nettles.

I’m so done. I’ve just had a conversation with one of those insane stans, and they said that I’m “playing the victim” for pointing out their racism. I’m so sick and tired of hearing that I’m “playing the victim” or that I’m being “over dramatic” for wanting actual black representation and calling out performative activism.

Team Green has its moments(I don’t love how some of them treat Nettles), but Team Black is indeed objectively worse.

I have yet to see any other sub-fanbase go on rants about how there are too many Black people on the show so it’s fine to cut the only in-canon Black character(Nettles), that they are glad the n-word died(Laena), claim that a Black woman’s Afro-hair is dirty(the leaked photo on the beach), calling people monkeys(again Laena), comparing characters to animals(Laena and Nettles), the legally biracial fiasco, denying that there is racism in the books and that their fave is one of the perpetrators, saying that Daemon sleeping with Black women is a detrimental character trait…It’s a mess.

Honestly, most of the viscerally racist stuff that has been said had been geared toward Nettles or Laena(Vaemond’s a close third) because they are perceived as a threat.

Which shows you how f*cked up these people are. They are legitimately willing to resort to racism to attack fictional characters over a fictional ship.

And the kicker is, they don’t see anything wrong with their behavior because: I’m not racist. I have no problem with good Black people(aka the ones who kiss up to my fave), ignore me saying how a white woman (who I hate cause she's a Green 🥦, but she's still white) with less plot development is somehow more relevant than the girl who shows that you are more than the blood in your veins. That's not relevant. You wouldn't like her if she wasn't Black!

Let's not get into the fact that they only like Baela, Rhaena, Corlys, and Alyn because they haven't/don't do anything. The moment we see them have a personality and it’s not solely about worshipping Missy Anne they'll turn on them.

If the show ends Rhaena’s arc marrying a Hightower they'll call her a whore and a traitor. If Baela calls out Missy Anne for not being motherly towards her and her sister they'll call her ungrateful. When Corlys puts his blood first he’ll be treated just like Ser Vaemond. Alyn will be hated not for saving the psychotic white woman(who arrested his father and tried to arrest his brother) in her hour of need.

If what they said about Rhaena taking Nettles’ place actually happened, do you know how upset they'd actually be with Daemon even putting his actual child first before Miss Maegor? She'd become enemy #1. He is not allowed to love anyone more than her.

They also love to defend their deplorable behavior by saying the characters they are attacking are fictional so it doesn’t matter.

B*tch it’s no longer just fictional when you call someone(even if it’s a fictional character) the n-word.

When you are actively trying to take away what little representation we do have and hurling slurs and stereotypes used against Black people in real life for centuries to attack characters you don’t like, you’ve gone past fiction and gone straight into a Klan rally.

There is loads of evidence of their demented behavior. Anyone with a working brain knows they aren’t right in the head and what they are saying is wrong.

Hell, they themselves know what they are saying is f*cked up, which is why they try to gaslight you into believing they are the innocent victims and you've just lost your mind. When that doesn't work and you provide them with the receipts for their bullcrap it’s crickets cause they’ve gone crying in the corner 🦗

They keep crying and bemoaning about Miss Maegor being called a whore. That isn't exactly nice, but you can't flip things around and make yourself look like the injured party when you are a f*cking racist.

For Christ's sake, these people are just all-around hypocrites. Some of them have called Nettles a whore(the worst is yet to come with her) yet they spaz out when you say Miss Maegor and start yelling about misogyny.

They are the same ones who mocked Laena dying(and her son) yet they cry when you call a dragon baby a lizard.

You can't claim that it's all fiction and then start crying when your fave who is also fictional is “attacked.”

There is a good reason she's being “attacked” considering she's an awful character with next to zero redeeming qualities(which is probably why she's attracted the worst fanbase).

You can't claim misogyny and perpetrate it yourself. You can't claim to not be a racist and then overtalk Black women when they call you out on your behavior and then call them crazy for defending themselves. You can't force Black women to overlook your faves racism for the sisterhood and then spit in our faces when we don't. That's not how this works.

I could go on, but I'm going to stop here cause it's pointless. You just have to laugh and bow out cause talking to them is like talking to a brick wall.

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

So, the atrocities Rhaenyra committed never happened because “unreliable source” but F&B is suddenly very trustworthy when it comes to the Greens, am I right ?

Most of the stuff that Rhaenyra was claimed to have done was stuff she did. Eustace primarily looked to whitewashing Aegon II with his whole “he didn’t care until his children were threatened” BS.

Most of what she did during her half-year tenure (the taxes, the murders, the lavish feasts while her people starve, refusing to offer credible surrender terms to the Greens, etc.) cannot be mistaken as anything but her doing, with the only exception of Haelana, who may have been pushed, may have committed suicide, or may even have been murdered by Larys Strong (I doubt that though). Arguing for people who doubted the Strong bastards’ paternity to have their tongues ripped out definitely happened (and as Tyrion stated, “when you tear out a man’s tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you’re only telling the world that you fear what he might say”). Rhaenyra knew about Blood & Cheese beforehand, and never punished Daemon. Maelor’s death can’t be biased history, her Knights Inquisitor were publicly charged with finding Maelor. Ordering Lord Mooton to murder Nettles and ordering Addam Velaryon to be executed without trial was also something that definitely happened, writs of execution have paperwork.

The smallfolk of KL turned on her, and that can’t be explained away as propaganda after-the-fact, they were the ones living it. Their reactions can’t be explained away as propaganda; they slaughtered the dragons: the living symbols of Targaryen power, and justified their actions as righteous action. How can that be construed as anything but legitimately held rebellion against the very aspect of her rulership ? The heads that were placed on pikes above Maegor’s Holdfast too, are physical things that can be observed and confirmed (or disproven).

See, I don't think anyone taught you how to analyze unreliable sources. An easy way to do that is if there are other sources corroborating the story or see if the idea makes sense with the person being talked about. It's also important to consider the context of the decisions, which is analysis 101 by the way. So, since apparently holding your hand and walking you through something like I'm your fucking middle school teacher is necessary, let's go through your post.

First off, the taxes. Yes, I agree with you, the taxes are something Rhaenyra actually did, we know this because in a kingdom, tax records are always kept. This is how I know that you, much like all the Nettles stans who interact with me, have never fucking read a thing I've written. I've said that the heavy tax isn't something that's a sign of Rhaenyra being incompetent or a tyrant. It's a necessary cost of war, especially since the Greens stole the treasury, she needs money. The people did hate this and eventually riot, but, by looking at the context of the riot, it was rooted in hatred of the war, not Rhaenyra. They believed that if she took the throne, the war would be over, but it wasn't because of Aegon's cowardice. If Aegon was still on the throne, the people would have still rioted, they hated the war and blamed the monarch, end of story.

As for the beheadings, I hate to break it to you, but F&B takes place in a medieval world, meaning that beheading was the method for punishing treason. Aegon's supporters committed treason then, unlike Rhaenyra's supporters, tried to hide throughout the city. Now, am I saying that beheading your enemies and putting their heads on spikes on the walls is a good thing? No, it's something that's barbaric and cruel, however, it's no less than what Aegon did to her supporters, so condemning her for something Aegon does is extremely hypocritical and sexist. Also, it wasn't a witch hunt, Rhaenyra needed to find the treasury and Aegon in order to stop the war; was it extreme, yes, but, again, context is important. I find it interesting that you condemn the taxes she levied while also condemning her attempts to end the reason for the taxes, could it be you just hate Rhaenyra and are looking for any reason to shit on her?

Now we're getting into something that requires a little critical thinking, which I know is hard for you: the feasting. The only source that says Rhaenyra held feasts while she was in KL is Septon Eustace. Let's look at Eustace really quickly; he's the man who crowned Aegon and is known by the in-universe writers of F&B to be unreliable, he also wasn't in KL when Rhaenyra was ruling. So, if the maesters who wrote the sources F&B drew from deem him to be unreliable and he wasn't present during her reign, does that make Eustace a trustworthy source? And if the many courtiers who were in KL and weren't fans of Rhaenyra didn't corroborate this rumor, is it likely to be true? The answer to both of these is no. Eustace claiming Rhaenyra feasted during her time in KL is 99% a lie, and that other 1% would refer to the fact that nobles always ate better than their people.

Now, I have another question for you anon, I do hope you'll consider it. Would you offer mercy to the man responsible for the deaths of all but two of your children, your husband, your ex mother-in-law who acted as your surrogate mother, began a war based on your gender, and wanted to kill you and your remaining children? Unless you are literally a saint, the answer is, no, you wouldn't be inclined to offer that person "credible surrender terms". I think you're just referring to when Rhaenyra refused to split the kingdom between her and Aegon as well as refused to spare his life if she caught him while she was in KL. How exactly is throwing the kingdom into a shit storm by splitting it in half, despite the fact that a majority of the lords supported Rhaenyra, "credible terms"? It's not, it's fucking entitled and ridiculous, of course Rhaenyra rejected that audacious idea. Also, Aegon refused to surrender in any way, in fact he was more determined than ever to keep the war going (even after Rhaenyra was murdered, he kept fighting), what's the point of offering peace terms if they're going to be rejected again? She already offered very merciful terms at the beginning of the war.

"As for my half-brothers and my sweet sister, Helaena," she announced, "they have been led astray by the counsel of evil men. Let them come to Dragonstone, bend the knee, and ask my forgiveness, and I shall gladly spare their lives and take them back into my heart, for they are of my own blood, and no man or woman is as accursed as the kinslayer." (Fire and Blood: The Dying of the Dragons - the Blacks and the Greens)

Keep in mind, this is an official decree by Rhaenyra, terms delivered to Aegon and his council, meaning they were recorded and had official documentation. So not only are you not using any critical thinking, you're flat out lying and making shit up to try and support your argument.

Now, moving on to Rhaenyra's sons, her wanting people who are committing treason to be punished how the king decreed isn't an outlandish or unreasonable expectation. Jace, Luke, and Joff were declared the legitimate sons of Laenor by Viserys, Corlys, and Laenor himself, making them (at the very least adopted) Velaryons. Are you saying that people who are adopted are undeserving of inheritance just because of their blood? That's not even a medieval idea, since adopted heirs has been a custom since the Ancient Romans. Moving on, Viserys was the one who declared the punishment for the treason of questioning the boys' legitimacy, not Rhaenyra. There's also the fact that no one outside of the Greens cared about whether the boys were Laenor's blood or not, they are recorded by everyone, including Eustace himself, as true Velaryons. I'm not even going to address the Tyrion quote, since you clearly don't actually care about accuracy or literally any of the messages in ASOIAF.

Continuing your trend of blatantly making shit up, there's no evidence that Rhaenyra knew about B&C. All we have is Daemon's letter to her, which only said that Luke would be avenged, something which could be accomplished through taking her throne and executing Aemond. In fact, that's the most likely conclusion to be drawn from such a vague letter.

As for Maelor, Rhaenyra did order her knights to find him, as having Aegon's last child could motivate him to surrender. However, she didn't order him to be executed, that was clearly an example of how war twists people and drives them to atrocities. Rhaenyra offered a reward for his return, meaning she wanted him alive, it's not her fault that a mob tore him to pieces. Her people came to break up the mob, but they were too late, so they executed the people responsible. Rhaenyra gave Maelor's remains a Targaryen funeral, something Aegon and Aemond didn't bother giving to her children.

Rhaenyra ordering Nettles' and Addam's executions are actions that I don't defend and never have. Those are signs of how Rhaenyra is another gray character, a woman driven to intense paranoia and making unjust and harmful decisions. This makes her a gray protagonist, not an unredeemable villain, as you and her other antis seem to believe. If you guys want all good protagonists, maybe read a differen book series.

As I said earlier, the revolt of the KL smallfolk weren't against Rhaenyra herself, it was against the war. They killed the dragons because they were being led by a man who took their discontent and used it to support his religious fanaticism. The Shepherd wasn't preaching against Rhaenyra, he was preaching against the Targaryens, including Aegon. That's why they killed all the dragons they could, not just Rhaenyra's, they killed Jaehaera and Helaena's dragons, how is that an act just against Rhaenyra?

TG stans and Rhaenyra antis' arguments are driven solely by a lack of critical thinking, willful ignorance, and twisting of passages. You either have issues that aren't actually supported by the narrative or simply apply double standards to Rhaenyra while supporting other characters who do the same or worse. You seem to think that this ask was a "gotcha" moment, however, you have simply shown how even the Rhaenyra antis who have read the book lack critical thinking and don't understand how unreliable sources work. Have a good day/night anon, I do hope you'll eventually learn how to use logic and your critical thinking, I'm sure you can do it.

[atopvisenyashill]

the fandom interpretation of j0nerys is honestly so fucking boring, avuncular marriages are not uncommon in westeros so it doesn’t work as a forbidden romance either, what’s the point if there isn’t any hate-sex? 🙄😒 same with jonsa tbh, if jon doesn’t feel like he’s betraying ned and catelyn and GOD i don’t want it!

This ask is four days old and I can't believe I never saw it because that's EXACTLY my thoughts. If it's incest, it needs to be full of toxicity and guilt and weird consenst dynamics or I REBUKE IT!!

I actually have meta on whether avuncular marriages are considered incest or not in Westeros that's like 90% written (the answer is: it's kinda complicated and may even vary geographically?) but the fandom interpretation of like, Jonerys being the one good relationship either ever has before dying, the "sweet smelling" rose is sooooooo boring. Where is the Maegor-Rhaena "I love you because I believe you are owed to me and I'll show you by murdering your shitty weak husband and making you queen and making your daughter my heir" dysfunction?? Where is the Daemyra "My war mongering older relative grooms me into believing that the only way my enemies don't brutally slaughter my children is if I marry him and let him fight a bloody war in my name while also abandoning me because he can't deal with the cost of that war so the children he was meant to be protecting die anyway and then I'm eaten by a dragon" toxic sludge of a ship??

And as for Jonsa, I think I've mentioned it before a few times, but there's generally two camps for that ship, one that thinks its going to end happily and one that thinks its going to end tragically and I am firmly in the tragedy camp. I need Jon to think something along the lines that he's wound up being the exact sort of monster Catelyn always worried he'd be by ~seducing~ Sansa. I need him to cry in the godswood and beg Ned for forgiveness. I need him in the crypts touching the stone face of his mother and wondering if she'd hate him. I need religious worry from Sansa that she's damned in the eyes of her mother's gods. I need Sansa choosing between whether outing Jon's real parentage (and putting his life on the line as a Targaryen bastard) is worth the risk so they can marry legally, and decide it's not worth it and choose his life and freedom over being known as a Targaryen. If she's not weeping and telling him that his life is worth more to her GEORGE CAN KEEP IT. If it's not sad traumabonding while Bran and Arya are side eyeing because we all got trauma but seven hells you two fucking freaks, I would literally rather it just not be canon and them both to end single or Jon to end up with Aegon/Arianne and Sansa with Brienne LET ME LIVE.

[navree]

I love all of your brilliant analyses through the answers!

There’s not much information about the historical Targaryens, so could you please give us a check up for the Conquerors? Can you describe each of them in a few sentences? Especially Rhaenys, because she died young and beautiful per Lana del Rey, and didn’t have much time to show her personality. I would really love that because the book did all of them dirty

You're too kind, thank you so much!!!

How to describe my precious most beloved Conquerors (especially Rhaenys, my fave who, as you said wonderfully put it, did get Lana del Rey'd and did die young and beautiful)? Toughie, because there really isn't a whole lot of information about them that hasn't been warped via mythologization, either in a positive and negative direction, and also because it seems like they were particularly tight lipped about their personal lives in both words and actions. But I will endeavor to do my best because I love them. I also have a lot to say about their interpersonal relationships with each other and with other people, especially once the children start getting thrown into the mix, but for now, simple personality descriptions of Aegon, Visenya, and Rhaenys for me are as follows:

Aegon - Aegon, first and foremost, appeared to be an introverted and deeply private person. Likely not someone who relished solitude, but didn't necessarily have a need or want for a lot of people around him, choosing instead to intensely value the few that he had, like his siblings and his children or, well, at least Aenys. For all the talk of the dragon's temper and all that, Aegon also didn't appear to be someone with that tempestuous a personality, and certainly no fits of fury, as exhibited by the way he waged a very methodical conquest and the way he was willing to deal with the North peaceably, as well as his willingness to sit down and end the conflict with Dornish even after Rhaenys's death (really, the two years of the Dragon's Wroth appears to have been the exception to the rule, motivated by very understandable extenuating circumstances to allow for such a breach in character). And in spite of what appears to have been pretty consistent neglect of Maegor, Aegon also seems to have been a devoted family man, never proving unfaithful to either of his sisters, deeply loving towards his eldest son, and an almost constant babysitter to his grandchildren, all the signs of someone who valued family and, if my own theories about how he got around to conceiving Maegor are to be taken as fact, valued duty even in the face of his own wants. And lastly, between being willing to negotiate with Dorne and accepting peaceable Northern surrender and the fact that the dragondreaming thing was a piece of lore that came from GRRM himself, Aegon seems to be someone who always did what was best for the greater good of the people, things like ending wars he might not have personally wanted to end for the realm

Visenya - Some of the more pervasive perceptions of Visenya are actually right, in my view; she was a stern and unforgiving person who could be as implacable as a wall when she wanted someone to suffer, and never willing to take anyone's shit, whether it was an enemy defying her or a little sibling (most likely Aegon) being irritating when they were children. But Visenya was also a dragon, and she did have that classic dragon temperament, we know that she had a temper given how involved she was in the Dragon's Wroth, and her determination to continue the war even after it was clear it was exacting a heavy cost and the more pragmatic move, the one that Aegon saw, was to try to come to a peace. Visenya was passionate, clearly, not just from those examples but from the way she was willing to keep on keeping on through the force of her feelings alone, like pushing through injuries to keep on fighting, like at the Field of Fire. She also had a bit of a cruel/sadistic streak, though that didn't really come too much into play when things were serious, more like it was an outlet for some of her darker thoughts. Then, there's this part, which is vital to understand: like Aegon, Visenya was family oriented, but not in the way Aegon was. While Aegon was a family man who valued time with them and only showed his true self to those loved ones, Visenya's devotion to family was exhibited in the way that there was nothing she wouldn't do for her family. There was nothing she wouldn't entertain, no line she wouldn't cross; she would usurp rightful leaders, go to war happily, burn a country to the ground in revenge, engage in dark arts in order to keep her family secure, everything she did she would say was in the service of her family, without compunction. Also, Visenya was a lesbian.

Rhaenys - Most important thing to know is that Rhaenys was absolutely perfect, so jot that down quick. I do subscribe to the way that Rhaenys's personality is described in the book, that she was kind and curious and occasionally impulsive and had a wide imagination, the last of which is what helped inform her love of poetry and music. But I also firmly believe that she was quick witted, not just witty but genuinely fiercely intelligent , and because she was so personable and able to make people love her as quickly as she did (because I will always subscribe to the belief that Rhaenys was very well loved by most people), Rhaenys was also incredibly gifted at not just reading situations and finding out the best outcomes, but also at just reading people, at understanding them and their motivations even at just a glance. Rhaenys was also a fascinating political mind, she knew exactly what she was doing with the propaganda she was creating through singers and minstrels, and though I don't think she ever consummated any relationships outside of her marriage, she absolutely flirted in order to get more people fond of her and her family by extension and spread the Targaryen agenda throughout the land, an early precursor to what her grandson Jaehaerys would do with the Doctrine of Exceptionalism. Rhaenys, while kindhearted, was also both capable of holding long grudges, and absolutely not a pushover; she had a spine of steel and sometimes could just continue on a course out of sheer stubbornness, nothing else. But she was kind, and extraordinarily loving, and the most openly affectionate out of all her siblings, capable of bringing a smile to Visenya's face and getting Aegon out of his shell, and she was an attentive and loving mother to Aenys for the three years that he had her. And this emotional openness is what allowed her to also be more "spiritual" than her siblings, but not in a way that we typically see it, as ascribed to religion, but in the way she was able to bond so fiercely with Meraxes, to really love her and spend so much time with her and want to be free with her, to be the only one out of her siblings to really forge that "one heart, one mind" kind of dragon bond that they never did with Balerion or Vhagar.

I'm sticking to just what I extrapolated based on the book that I use to then flesh out some of the stuff that's pure speculation on my part (like Visenya's romantic feelings towards Rhaenys specifically, Rhaenys's dynastic ambitions when it came to her family with Aegon, or what I believe to be passive suicidal ideation from Aegon following Rhaenys's death) but these are basically the core personality traits of the three Conquerors as I've interpreted them.

[lemonhemlock]

i saw that you are a dark!dany believer. i'm not really a fan of daenerys but i don't think she'll go mad or whatever. but i'm interested to hear your points about why do you support this theory...

listen so i haven't read the books in a while because i have an academic paper i actually need to be finishing so i don't have exact quotes on hand but

you will find in dany's pov that sometimes she will start spewing mad shit like I AM DAENERYS STORMBORN DESCENDANT OF MAEGOR THE CRUEL BLOOD OF THE DRAGON I WILL RAZE CITIES TO THE GROUND AND MY ENEMIES WILL DIE SCREAMING

i was reading AGOT like a normal person and just, you know, found it strange she's having these intrusive violent thoughts ever since the first book (and i quite sympathized with daenerys in the first book)

but she never quit it with this unhinged shit and it just got worse as the series progressed. her entire shtick is having dragons and using them to burn stuff to the ground, conquering places, not knowing how to rule them, inadvertently making things worse and then leaving, only her ultimate plan is to do the same to westeros

and she is so delusional when talking abt westeros, too, no critical thinking abt rhaegar or aerys or how the rebellion was justified, robert is always "the usurper" (it's never "aerys was a tyrant and deserved to be deposed"), the starks and the lannisters are exactly the same, the people will welcome her with open arms.....

like i genuinely don't understand how people are so convinced and fanatical about this girl being a hero and about targ restoration being a good thing. you don't need a phd or to make up a complicated house-of-cards theory to see how she's a ticking bomb waiting to go off 🤷‍♀️

and i say this as a cersei stan bc it can be mad entertaining to root for a sassy bonkers queen but it's absolutely wild to me how people hate cersei so much for being a ~villain yet fall for dany's pov trap every time

i'm not even getting into her white saviour complex and how her quest for violent revolution is repeatedly thwarted by the realities that people cannot live in your glorious utopia if you do not properly envisage a system to replace the one you just tore down & make space for them in that brave new world where they can actually thrive, instead of being worse off than before

dany is basically an incompetent politician, a terrible visionary and an awful queen. and, worst off all, she is blinded by her own delusions that she is a Good, Moral Person so when she will inevitably be faced with the reality that the people of westeros do not want her or she is not the rightful queen (bc of either jon or fAegon - take ur pick, whichever theory you like best)..... i think she's gonna snap

i have no idea how that will go down, though, since it's only natural that she be involved in the fight against the others, too, somehow

[meanqueens]

Saw that ask about Targ stans being gleeful over the fact that Alicent's "line" died out and Rhaenyra's got the throne - and I really find that odd. I mean, there seems to be this perception among them that Alicent's kids are not "Targaryens" but Hightowers. For me, aside from the obvious suffering of the realm and small-folk, the actual tragedy of the dance is that it tore a family apart. Everyone knows the, "A Targaryen alone in the world" line, implying the importance of family. In the very first episode of hotd Daemon talks about how their blood is thick, and Viserys himself talks about the importance of sticking together as a unit. The opening lines of the show were literally that the only thing capable of destroying the Targaryens were they themselves. We see it throughout their history: if they had kept tight as a family, they wouldn't have fallen apart the way they did (Aenys and Maegor, the Blackfyres&Bittersteel, Aerys not being etc...).

Besides, I honestly don't get feeling gleeful over a mother's grief, no matter what. I felt awful for Rhaenyra when her sons died (honestly, I don't know how much she would've enjoyed Aegon and Viserys ruling when she lost Jacaerys, Lucerys and Joffrey). I felt awful for Alicent when she outlived her children and grandchildren (that line about how she wanted to see her sons and Helaena was one of the saddest in the book). And I felt awful for the kids themselves (at least, those who were pulled into the conflict not out of their own volition but because of responsibility toward/association with their family; most of them were so young).

thank you for your ask!!

anon, i think that's an excellent insight on stans implying that alicent and her children are not truly "part of the family", and thusly perceived as outsiders and enemies coming to tear the targs down.

and, frankly, that's objectionably simplifying the situation. that's part of the point, that all of these people were supposed to have some sense of loyalty to each other due to the notion of "family", and yet the chaos of choices drove them apart. this is not to say that just because one is "family" one must unconditionally support them, no no. but there were decisions made by people in power that weren't thought through well enough to consider how it would affect descendants down the line (looking at you, jae/haerys and vi/serys). these decisions laid the pieces in place for everything to go wrong, for people to turn on each other and feel like they had to choose a side (or were too young to fully understand what that meant).

i'm just gonna say it: to boil it down to "alicent started the war/dance" is clearing every other player of responsibility, because no, no it wasn't only her (debatably it wasn't her at all). aegon ii would not have gotten as far as he did if his claim was not arguably legitimate, which it was because he was, undeniably, the son of the former king. he was targ/aryen, as were his siblings, as was his mother a targ/aryen queen. they were valid members of the dynasty, whether they wanted to be or not. "othering" them does such a disservice to the story and removes so many layers.

and even if one doesn't like certain characters over others, it still gives off a sour energy to celebrate the suffering of mothers who were neither good nor bad, just people, and mourn children that didn't deserve what happened to them. it's just horrible and sad, and i can't help but contemplate how different things could have been if it weren't for, bluntly, the patriarchy and the men it empowered.

[warsofasoiaf]

Is it just me or does GRRM seem to have a bit more of a positive bias toward House Blackwood in comparison to House Bracken simply in the way they’ve been written / their roles in his stories & histories

Oh very much so, to the point it's a little off-putting given that House Frey has some pretty decent members of their own family (not surprising given how massive it is) or the Boltons where Domeric seemed decent enough.

When we're introduced to the Blackwood-Bracken feud, we see that the conflict is old to the point where Tytos and Jonos knee-jerk oppose any measure the other supports. This plot beat serves it's purpose in the conclusion, where Tytos and Jonos are actually agreeing in regards to matters at the end of the first novel - including the acclamation of Robb as the King of the Trident - and it's shown as incredibly remarkable.

But when we're given the new dimensions to the conflict between Tytos and Jonos, it's clear that GRRM is favoring one over the other in every possible way. Tytos maintains a romantic last stand in dedication to his king fallen by treachery, Jonos jumps ship to the Lannister camp and is introduced with a common woman in his bed. Tytos treats with Jaime honestly and speaks with him man-to-man, Jonos is trying to wheedle and scheme for a land grab against his hatred rivals. Tytos is also just cool - he has the swanky bird-feather cloak and a Caesarian nose, and he holds Riverrun and leads a successful postern sortie, Jonos gets wounded in the retaking of Stone Hedge. Moreover, Tytos wins, insofar as much as he can. He loses some land but not very much. Jaime purposefully takes a hostage that doesn't twist the knife and brings the hammer down on Jonos. Good character work for Jaime in his part of the story, but it does the Blackwood-Bracken feud no favors.

Now, if this was a one-off, there's no real problem, not every rivalry needs to be a duality and it's okay for some characters to be just kind of shitty. But throughout the history of the Brackens, they always seem to be the jackass family. House Blackwood may have relied on the Storm Kings to restore themselves to overlordship amongst the Riverlands, but the Brackens sided with the brutal ironborn, clearly a greater degree of selling out to a worse enemy. Lyle Bracken dies like a chump against Maegor, Olyvar Bracken defects to Jaehaerys, gets exiled, and rebels against the Night's Watch, adding oathbreaking to the list of shameful Bracken deeds. Amos Bracken gets punked and outmaneuvered, losing his home castle and getting killed by Alysanne Blackwood, and they jump ship to the blacks. Otho Bracken is called "The Brute of Bracken," not a name that connotes anything positive, suggesting physical prowess but dim wits, and he denies to hear the justice of Dunk's claim. The rivalry even extends to Aegon's harem of favorites, where Missy Blackwood is kind and permitted to remain while Barba and her baby are sent away because of Lord Bracken's grasping. Each and every time the Brackens show up, a reminder of their apparent inherited shittiness is not far off.

Then of course, the final insult: half-Bracken Bittersteel dies in exile, the architect of failed rebellion after failed rebellion, while half-Blackwood Bloodraven becomes Hand - enacting his failed police state, ignoring the land to the reavings of Dagon Greyjoy when he isn't just brutalizing them outright, culminating in an outright murder under the auspices of the crown. While the Blackwoods could be capable of venality, cruelty, or just simple mistakes, they also have a few gold stars as well, but the Brackens seem to only be capable of the worst.

Here was a few ideas I had to improve House Bracken, either by making good and honorable, or failing that, more interesting and distinct.

Thanks for the question, Anon.

SomethingLikeALawyer, Hand of the King

[hchollym]

Aerion x Viserys - We Finally Got Our Dragons

I couldn’t help myself. I will go down with this crack ship  🤣

Warnings: Afterlife, Angst, Hurt/Comfort, Sexual Content, Explicit Language, Age Difference

Read it on AO3. 

____________

Most people think that a person finds peace after they die. Aerion would tell you differently.

The Targaryens have their own “exclusive” afterlife, stuck for eternity with only one another for company. While he's glad that they all appear as they were right before they died and not as they died (for then he would have a hole in his throat and be unable to talk), it still does not change the fact that he’s stuck with these shits forever. Most of his relatives find enjoyment (or at least contentment) here (seeing as half of them are married to each other), but for others – like Aerion – this place is a special kind of hell.

He died drinking wildfire. It certainly wasn’t his finest moment, nor was it something that he wants to remember, given the resulting pain. And yet, his family will never let him forget it. They torment him about it daily, as if he hadn’t already suffered enough.

“Oh look, it’s the Prince Who Thought He Was A Dragon,” they sneer at him whenever he walks by. It’s not as if he’s the first Targaryen to think of himself as a dragon and die because of it. What about all the other fools who got themselves killed trying to hatch a dragon egg? Why aren’t they mocked as he is?

Even his own father sighs disapprovingly when he sees him, as if Aerion brought him embarrassment. It makes Aerion scoff. His older brother was literally known as “Daeron the Drunken” and yet Aerion is somehow the stain on their family name? It’s absolutely ridiculous. His brothers ignore him (he hears their comments about Aerion the Monstrous, and really, when are they going to get over it?).

His own son, Maegor – who joined them when he got into a fight with the wrong person at a tavern – won’t talk to Aerion, because he blames Aerion’s “madness” as the reason he never got the throne. How ungrateful can you be? Maegor wouldn’t even be alive without Aerion.

His bitch of a wife isn’t much better. She refuses to allow him into her bed, and her brother and father are more than happy to guard her chamber door. To be honest, it’s not a huge loss though; she was annoying anyway, always crying and whimpering and screaming while he was trying to enjoy himself. Still, it’s the audacity that angers him.

You would think that the ancestors would grow tired of insulting him after so many years, but it appears that there is not nearly enough exciting news to go around here, so the taunts and insults go on year after year. Even the “Mad King” doesn’t get scorned as much, because people seem to either fear him or feel pity for his insanity.

Aerion tries to ignore most of the ridicule by keeping to himself, which is thankfully easy to do in this endless hallway with infinite corridors and chambers, but that doesn’t completely stop the talk from reaching his ears. He’d been humiliated, angry, and defensive for the first decade or so of these disrespectful comments, but after more than 60 years, he’s just sick and tired of it.

So when the others stop talking about him and begin insulting another, one they mockingly call "the last dragon" and "the beggar king,” Aerion is initially relieved, and then intrigued. He questions his father, who will at least answer him (albeit grudgingly). When he hears the tale of this Viserys, he feels an instant kinship that takes him by surprise.

He’s never felt like he could relate to someone else before, but the fact is, Viserys thought himself a dragon and he too died for it in an excruciating way. The other man was treated like shit in life and now again in death by his own family (Aerion knows the feeling), and his own sister had him killed in a cruel twist of irony.

Aerion’s glad that the attention on him has finally stopped, but he finds himself unexpectedly feeling sympathy for Viserys – an emotion so foreign to him that it took him a while to identify what it was. Perhaps it's because they share similar deaths (though by vastly different means), or that Aerion knows what it's like to be humiliated by the hypocritical ancestors, or because he knows what it’s like for your own family to turn on you.

He hears that Viserys' mother won't even give him sympathy because of how he treated his sister, but so what? The bitch killed him. Why are mothers always so quick to defend the weak? Aerion’s own mother is still angry at him for his treatment of Aegon, but he doesn’t think he has anything to apologize for. Why should he be “nice” to pathetic people? Daenerys should have been grateful that Viserys raised her after they fled King's Landing. Aerion would have sold her immediately to the highest buyer and bought himself a nice house until he raised his army to take back the throne.

He hears through the gossip that Viserys locks himself inside his chambers to avoid the others, which Aerion also understands. He's not entirely sure why he decides to go see him, but perhaps it's because he’s sick of being judged and looked down on, and Viserys seems like the one person who won’t do that.

He makes his way to Viserys’ chambers, holding his head high and ignoring the looks he gets along the way, only to find that the others have painted slurs on the door, and Aerion feels disgust at their tackiness. How old are they? Five? He opens the doors without knocking and sees a man sitting on the bed, his elbows rested on his knees and his head in his hands. When the figure looks up, his expression one of annoyance, anger, and pure exhaustion (a combination which Aerion knows well), and Aerion is struck by just how young he is.

For some reason, he pictured Viserys as close to his age, but he couldn't have been more than 25, though Aerion guesses it’s actually closer to 20. He's practically still a boy, and Aerion feels a hot wave of rage rush through him. This is who they are tormenting for making mistakes when he was exiled in Essos (by no fault of his own), trying to care for an ungrateful sister who eventually murdered him? Honestly, and they thought he was monstrous!

"I'm Aerion Brightflame," he starts before Viserys can get upset at his intrusion. He refuses to give up using that name; the ancestors can go fuck themselves. Viserys' expression clears, and he blinks in confusion before frowning warily.

"What do you want?" He asks suspiciously, and Aerion shrugs nonchalantly.

"I know how these shits can be when they decide to harass someone. Fuck them. You don’t need any of these bumbling fools. You and I, we're still dragons," he assures Viserys, not entirely understanding why he feels compelled to do so, but Aerion knows that he still is a dragon, regardless of how everything ended, and he’s willing to say that Viserys is as well out of solidarity for the mutual enemies/family. Viserys looks shocked before scowling.

"Clearly not, seeing as melted gold killed me, and fire cannot kill a dragon," he points out bitterly, not even mentioning Aerion's own failures, for which Aerion feels unexpectedly grateful for. He sits down next to Viserys, and he finds it hilarious how the other man looks alarmed and ready to flee.

"And how many others have been killed by fire when trying and failing to hatch dragon eggs? We're still Targaryens. We’re still dragons, no matter what those stupid sea cows have to say.” Viserys' expression changes from one of shock to hesitant gratitude. It's a look that Aerion is not used to having directed at him; fear, anger, and even lust are common emotions he’s used to seeing when people look at him, but never gratitude. It makes his stomach churn oddly.

After that, they form a strange bond of companionship. They spend most of their time in one of their chambers (it’s easier to avoid the others that way), but occasionally they venture out to the other rooms with alcohol or food. They don't need either, but it provides them with a distraction to the never-ending boredom. They even throw knives sometimes, though Aerion had to teach Viserys because he never learned.

Their conversations start by talking about all the people they hate and are angry at (of which there are many). Then it changes to their time in Essos (the good, the bad, and the ugly). And finally, they talk of their own failures; the feel of the gold burning through Viserys' skin and hair; the way the wildfire scorched Aerion’s throat and blinded him in pain. They talk of how humiliating it was (and still is), and of their disappointment in the way their lives turned out.

It's odd, because Aerion has never felt the urge to share his thoughts with anyone - no one was ever good enough or would truly understand (until now) - but he finds that it's actually rather nice. He quickly decides that he hates Viserys’ brother Rhaegar – he started this whole mess and yet he still looks at Viserys with disappointment, and it makes Aerion want to burn him. And Viserys quickly decides that Maegor is being selfish by hating his own father. Aerion’s found an unexpected ally in Viserys, and it’s the first time he’s felt anything other than miserable since his death.

...

Maybe it happens because of their surprisingly easy companionship, or maybe it’s because they are so isolated from everyone else (no one else seems capable of getting along with them), or maybe it's even simply because it's been years since Aerion slept with someone. Regardless of the reasons, they somehow end up in bed together. Aerion doesn’t know exactly how it happened, but he’s not complaining.

Viserys accepted being the bottom quickly enough, and Aerion found out later that it's because it wasn’t his first time; he’d been forced to sell his body in order to survive at his lowest points in exile, and Aerion’s never felt protective of anyone before, but he feels it now for Viserys. He also feels irrationally jealous that someone else dared to touch what is his, and yes, he has come to think of Viserys as his.

Viserys is wonderfully responsive, biting his shoulder, scratching his back until he bleeds, moaning and cursing loudly, urging him to go faster and harder. It makes Aerion’s blood sing, his thoughts fuzzy, and the heat envelop him all over until he’s nearly drowning in it.

But it's Viserys’ eyes that really send Aerion over the edge. The pale, lilac orbs dilate in lust, but there's also anger, determination, and hurt in them. Viserys has a vulnerability in his eyes that Aerion would have thought had been destroyed years ago, but somehow it remains, and it's both intoxicating and addicting to see.

When Aerion finally decides to try bottoming (because why the hell not? they're dead, and he’s bored and ready to do something new), he finishes embarrassingly quick. It's better than he ever imagined; fire seems to completely consume him, so hot and bright that Aerion feels like he might pass out. Viserys' cock rubs against a place inside of him that causes sparks to shoot throughout his entire body, and all he can do is pant and gasp as he clings to Viserys for dear life, thinking that if he weren't already dead, then this would definitely kill him because it's too much, but he wants it more than anything.

Viserys never mentions his premature response, and they don’t talk about the fact that Aerion starts to roll them over more and more so he can wrap his legs around Viserys' waist, urging the other man to fuck him. He's relieved by Viserys' lack of acknowledgement, because even in death, he still has his pride, and it's embarrassing how much he loves to fall apart underneath the younger man.

And when Viserys guides Aerion to ride him like a stallion for the first time, Aerion screams himself hoarse, and it suddenly reminds him too much of the wildfire burning his throat, and he starts to panic, so Viserys holds him until he calms, but they don't talk about that either.

...

When Daenerys does finally show up, Aerion becomes insanely angry. She's cold and distant, though she does try to talk to Viserys, and Aerion wants to kill her. How dare she?! He refuses to let her see Viserys until the younger man finally tells him to leave them so they can speak.

Aerion feels something hot and ugly churn in his stomach at that, and he waits by the door until Daenerys leaves, looking only barely fazed. He instantly goes inside to see Viserys' eyes shining with angry tears. He still hasn't gotten good at hiding his emotions yet, and truthfully, Aerion kind of hopes that he never does.

"She hatched the dragons. The fire didn't kill her," Viserys says angrily, but there's also jealously and pure despair there, and Aerion doesn't like it. He pulls Viserys into his arms and kisses him soundly until Viserys pulls back and leans his head on Aerion's chest, sighing heavily.

"Why her?" He asks, though the unspoken why not me? is obvious.

"Because the gods are cruel," he answers honestly, because she didn’t deserve it more than either of them.

"But it doesn't change things. She's here now, just like us, with no dragons. Fuck her, and fuck all of them. We are still dragons," Aerion continues vehemently. He feels Viserys swallow and nod, as if trying to convince himself.

"We are dragons," Viserys says shakily before gaining confidence.

"We are dragons. And while she's here alone, I have you now; my own dragon," he finishes stubbornly, and Aerion feels a rush of something that he chooses not to examine further at those words. He tightens his grip on Viserys and kisses the top of his head.

"And I have you. Looks like we both finally got our dragons."

[sunontherhoyne]

I imagine that the Targaryen and Martell marriages between Daeron/Myriah and Maron/Daenerys was as initially unpopular in Dorne as it was in the rest of Westeros.

The militarists on both sides probably saw it as giving too much for different reasons.

If you were a Dornish Lord or Lady, it probably angered you that you fought through hell, just for your Prince and Princess to marry the mortal enemy (some could have even seen it as a betrayal) It probably didn’t seem like a victory, a few tax breaks compared to them now having to formally acknowledge the invaders as their overlords.

It was definitely one of those things that would make sense in hindsight.

Fact is Dorne couldn’t keep going like that. They only won when they used underhanded tactics under a banner of peace. I doubt anyone would fall for that in the future.

How long until they were faced with a Targaryen king who had the intelligence of Jaehareys, the brutality of Maegor and Aerys, and will of Daeron? The next Dornish war could very well lead to to literal genocide.

Myriah and Maron made the right choice while they had the leverage. And it secured Dorne’s independence in all but name. I think it’s one of the best political moves we see in the entire series.

Anon, my eye started twitching when you called Jaehaerys intelligent, but that's a completely different topic and I'll leave it alone.

(Also, I'd call Daeron I breaking a peace treaty and attacking with no warning or real provocation (because if Jaehaerys didn't invade Dorne after Morion the Moron literally tried to sail and invade, I don't see why some border raids that may or may not still be happening when Daeon I took the throne would be worse) underhanded, but I've ranted about this enough already.)

But anyway, you're right that the marriages weren't popular on either side, especially on the onset. I don't think anyone mistreated Daenerys Martell, but I think it was a long time before she even slightly felt like Dorne was home. And as for Myriah... well, I don't think the treatment she got helped her bury her resentment at her father agreeing to take away her birthright as Princess of Dorne just so she could marry Daeron II.

...actually, it occurs to me that some in Dorne would have seen Myriah off the same way they would see someone off for a funeral. I mean, she was marrying a Targaryen, and one that shared the same name as the man that slaughtered their people, and how would they know that Daeron II was actually a good guy?

Anyway, history looks back on Myriah, Maron, and Daenerys and thinks they were good rulers and the marriages were amazing ideas. But in the immediate aftermath... well, you're right that people were discontented at best.

[yeniayofnymeria]

Dance of Dragons and Players

Will be happened second DoD? Short answer; yes.

-GRRM

Hi, short question. Will we find out more about the Dance of the Dragons in future books?

The first dance or the second?

The second will be the subject of a book. The first will be mentioned from time to time, I'm sure. - SSM

-Book

“ Dragons ?” said her mother. “Teora, don’t be mad." “I’m not. They’re coming.” “How could you possibly know that?” her sister asked, with a note of scorn in her voice. “One of your little dreams?” Teora gave a tiny nod, chin trembling. "They were dancing. In my dream. And everywhere the dragons danced the people died.” (TWoW, Arianne)

History repeats itself and GRRM knows it as a history lover. That's why he does the same in his books from time to time. Events can be based on the same root cause and similar points, but each has specific conditions and roles in itself.

Therefore, it will not be correct to search for one-on-one similarity while distributing the roles of the second dance that will take place(afterall GRRM will not copy and paste) but still, I want to talk to you about this.

According to you, which players of the second DoD can match the players of the first? How will the sides be separated? Greens and Blacks or something else? Hints from books? Reasons?

I'll start first. In my opinion, not all players match, but these are the ones I think match.(Some characters fit more than one person.)

Criston Cole - Jorah Mormont

Otto Hightower - Jon Conn. and Doran Martell

Corlys Velaryon - Tyrion Lannister

Dalton Greyjoy - Victarion Greyjoy

Larys Strong - Varys (Almost same name :D )

Erryk Cargyll and Arryk Cargyll: Well, these are twins Quenn/King's Guard, one was on Rae's side and the other on Aegon. In fact, they don't have a very important role, but a "tragic" sibling relationship. There are two separate rumors that they love and hate each other. These two brothers reminded me of Jaime and Tyrion; love and hate each other and i believe they will be two different sides in the first place (later, will change probably).

Also in books, Olenna Tyrell's has twins guards, their name are Erryk and Arryk too but I can not see them a role in this war.(for now)

Addam and Alyn Valeryon - Aurane Waters

Daemon Targaryen - Euron Greyjoy

The Shepherd- High Sparrow. In fact, the current High Sparrow also looks like the Sparrow in the time of Maegor and Aenys. We can say he is the mix of all of them.

This is the role distribution for me for now. Let's come to the leading roles.

How are the sides separated? A name, a color, a coat of arms ...

In fact, before the first Dance, divisions began in the form of the Rhaenyra party and the Alicent party, but then they were divided into blacks and greens because of the clothes they wore in a tournament.

No doubt there is no tournament. For the Dance of the Dragons, it is right to look at the colors of the dragons.

Rhaegal - Green (Jon)

Drogon - Black (Dany)

Viserion- White (Aegon?)

The first dance was between two sides, so it might be thought that the second dance would be the same. Readers often assume this way. Could be true. But we have three dragons and three colors. Also three of our throne candidates; Jon, Dany, Aegon.

If the dance is between the two sides, we will wait for them to separate as blacks and greens. If it will be experienced among three sides, it will be necessary to add whites.

Even Tyrion's eyes are a sign of this; green and black. He will play both sides like Moqorro's said.

"Someone told me that the night is dark and full of terrors. What do you see in those flames?"

"Dragons," Moqorro said in the Common Tongue of Westeros. He spoke it very well, with hardly a trace of accent. No doubt that was one reason the high priest Benerro had chosen him to bring the faith of R'hllor to Daenerys Targaryen. "Dragons old and young, true and false, bright and dark. And you. A small man with a big shadow, snarling in the midst of all."

"Snarling? An amiable fellow like me?" Tyrion was almost flattered.

And also he has dream. It is a sign too for Dance 2, i believe.

That night Tyrion Lannister dreamed of a battle that turned the hills of Westeros as red as blood. He was in the midst of it, dealing death with an axe as big as he was, fighting side by side with Barristan the Bold and Bittersteel as dragons wheeled across the sky above them. In the dream he had two heads, both noseless. His father led the enemy, so he slew him once again. Then he killed his brother, Jaime, hacking at his face until it was a red ruin, laughing every time he struck a blow. Only when the fight was finished did he realize that his second head was weeping.

It should not be forgotten that Tyrion is Jon's friend, and he has relatives with Stark as he is married to Sansa. (A bitter marriage, but ultimately a marriage.)

Some readers think that Jon cannot be part of this Dance because he is not interested sit the iron throne. I think we're looking at it from the wrong place. The sole aim and sole focus of this war will not be the throne itself. There are too many variable factors in the Second Dance that are not in the first.

What are those?

Starks and Targaryens hate the Lannisters, Targanyens (Dany) hate the Starks, Lannisters and Baratheons. Dany wants revenge. Lannisters cannot easily approach anyone this time, everyone hates them. But Tyreller wants to have power. Marg's being a queen means that Tyrels have power. So for now, there is an alliance between these two households. (Lannister-Tyrell) An probably there is this Blackfyre issue. There are the Others beyond the North. The battle of Ice and Fire will take place. Jon doesn't have zero ambition, as in the show. We know that he will experience a serious change after his resurrection. He will become a darker character. Anyway, even Arya can have an influence on Jon, as she turns into a vengeful spirit. (My “the champion” theory)

This dance will most likely be in the last book. In the last book, it is not possible to commit both the Dance and the Others war at the same time. This always makes me think. So I thought GRRM could nest these two battles.

As a result, Jon will be drawn into this war, even if he doesn't want to. Some things are inevitable, especially after deciphering his true identity. So, if the parties are going to be greens and blacks ... And if the colors of the dragons decide ... Then it seems inevitable that Jon is the leader of the greens.

If Aegon is truly a Blackfyre, Jon is the prince's only child. Is it wrong to wait for Jon to ride the dragon named after his father?

( I can't imagine Jon riding Viserion even if Aegon is the real Targaryen. Viserion name? Really? Püfff If the name of the white dragon was Rhaegal, okay but not. Actually, there is this too. If GRRM would not make Jon the leader of the greens, why he did call the green dragon as Rhaegal ? The white dragon would have given this name. Or he would have given the white dragon a more appropriate name. Since the dragon is white, we would think that Jon would ride this dragon. White-headed sword, white wolf arm and white wolf. It makes sense. But the green one was called Rhaegal and the white one was called Viserion. We need to think about that. )

One of the reasons I think the dance's main sides will be Jon and Dany is this.

A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness. . . . mother of dragons, bride of fire . . .

Jonerys fans believe this is a FS for "love". No it is not. First of all, the symbol of love is red rose, not blue rose. The blue rose symbolizes Lyanna and Jon. Another name for the blue rose is the snow blue flower. This flower is the symbol of the north and Winterfell. The sweet smell was presented as a death sign in this books many times.

Example:

He never left his bed, though, and the smell of sickness clung to him day and night, a hot, moist, sickly sweet odor. (Ser Darry's moment of death.)

A foul, sweet smell rose from the wound, so thick it almost choked her. The leaves were crusted with blood and pus, Drogo's breast black and glistening with corruption. (Drogo dies)

There was a smell of death about that room; a heavy smell, sweet and foul, clinging. (Cat's father's room)

Another important detail is that Undying ones showed her important things. The things and people threatening her, her enemies ... They tell her to be careful. In summary, Jon is a "death" threat to Dany, directly or indirectly. Ever since I noticed this detail, I waited for Jon to cause her death. I don't need to tell you the result. :D Of course I was waiting in the books ...

In order for this to happen, these two have to be enemies; greens and blacks.

Well, if there is a third side? Then it is Aegon. Whites. Blackfyre. Tyrion had a relationship with all three dragons. (He will meet Dany.) Moqorro actually counted all kinds of dragons.

3 number is important for Targaryens. Aerys had 3 living children, Jon is third child. Dragon has 3 heads. There are 3 dragons. Dany's prophecies and this Moqorro's dragon prophecies: old and young, true and false, bright and dark.

Generally, we thought that every word in a sentence describes a person, but so many dragons should not be expected. Besides dragon has 3 heads :D

Old-Young is 1 person.

True- False is 1 person.

Bright-Dark is 1 person.

All dragons are fighting, and Tyrion is in the middle of this war and is stuck in between them.

The white cyvasse dragon ended up at Tyrion's feet. He scooped it off the carpet and wiped it on his sleeve, but some of the Yunkish blood had collected in the fine grooves of the carving, so the pale wood seemed veined with red... He tossed the bloody dragon in the air, caught it, grinned.

This is an interesting detail. Perhaps the white dragon (Aegon) would die first in this war. If the dance is going to die between 2 sides (greens-blacks) then Viseron will probably never come to the west. (If this is a FS for Viserion. Viserion was the dragon that was frequently seen in this pov and took action. 6th book.)

What do you think?

[trinuviel]

Why is it so significant the parallel between Queen Alysanne and Sansa?

The parallels between Queen Alysanne and Sansa Stark are significant because they may foreshadow Sansa eventually becoming Queen - and if that is so, it also hints what kind of Queen Sansa would be since Alysanne was called Good Queen Alysanne. The possibility of Sansa becoming a good queen is also highlighted in her narrative journey as she learns from her experiences at court.

Queen ship has been a continual theme in Sansa’s narrative arc, evolving in step with how her character develops - and this theme is there for a reason, especially AFTER her betrothal to Joffrey was broken.

In the first book, Sansa’s notion of queenship was a very naive one - the Disney princess dream, so to speak, of pretty dresses, having babies and living happily ever after in a world where everyone is courteous and nice.

That night Sansa dreamt of Joffrey on the throne, with herself seated beside him in a gown of woven gold. She had a crown on her head, and everyone she had ever known came before her, to bend the knee and say their courtesies. (AGoT, Sansa IV)

Later she sees it as a way to save those she loves and to protect herself:

Joffrey was the king now, she thought. Her gallant prince would never hurt her father, no matter what he might have done. If she went to him and pleaded for mercy, she was certain he’d listen. He had to listen, he loved her, even the queen said so. Joff would need to punish Father, the lords would expect it, but perhaps he could send him back to Winterfell, or exile him to one of the Free Cities across the narrow sea. It would only have to be for a few years. By then she and Joffrey would be married. Once she was queen, she could persuade Joff to bring Father back and grant him a pardon. (AGoT, Sansa IV)

He did not hate her, Sansa realized; neither did he love her. He felt nothing for her at all. She was only a … a thing to him. “No,” she said, rising. She wanted to rage, to hurt him as he’d hurt her, to warn him that when she was queen she would have him exiled if he ever dared strike her again …(AGoT, Sansa IV)

In the second book, she is subjected to Cersei’s toxic “wisdom” about how a Queen should act:

“The night’s first traitors,” the queen said, “but not the last, I fear. Have Ser Ilyn see to them, and put their heads on pikes outside the stables as a warning.” As they left, she turned to Sansa. “Another lesson you should learn, if you hope to sit beside my son. Be gentle on a night like this and you’ll have treasons popping up all about you like mushrooms after a hard rain. The only way to keep your people loyal is to make certain they fear you more than they do the enemy.”

“I will remember, Your Grace,” said Sansa, though she had always heard that love was a surer route to the people’s loyalty than fear. If I am ever a queen, I’ll make them love me. (ACoK, Sansa VI)

Here we see Sansa learn how NOT to be a Queen as she inwardly rejects Cersei’s toxic worldview. Not only does Sansa reject Cersei’s attitude, she also steps up and does Cersei’s job of calming the women when Cersei herself abdicates her queenly responsibilities as she leaves Maegor’s Holdfast during the Battle of the Blackwater.

Sansa is set aside as Joffrey’s betrothed at the end of book 2 and one would think that the theme of queenship would come to an end in her arc. However, it still pops up in the story, fx when Tyrion observes that Sansa has the abilities to have been a good Queen:

She is good at this, he thought, as he watched her tell Lord Gyles that his cough was sounding better, compliment Elinor Tyrell on her gown, and question Jalabhar Xho about wedding customs in the Summer Isles. His cousin Ser Lancel had been brought down by Ser Kevan, the first time he’d left his sickbed since the battle. He looks ghastly. Lancel’s hair had turned white and brittle, and he was thin as a stick. Without his father beside him holding him up, he would surely have collapsed. Yet when Sansa praised his valor and said how good it was to see him getting strong again, both Lancel and Ser Kevan beamed. She would have made Joffrey a good queen and a better wife if he’d had the sense to love her. (ASoS, Tyrion VIII)

The theme of queenship in relation to Sansa is even raised indirectly in the fourth book when she has been taken to the Vale by Petyr Baelish:

"You would not believe half of what is happening in King’s Landing, sweetling. Cersei stumbles from one idiocy to the next, helped along by her council of the deaf, the dim, and the blind. I always anticipated that she would beggar the realm and destroy herself, but I never expected she would do it quite so fast. It is quite vexing. I had hoped to have four or five quiet years to plant some seeds and allow some fruits to ripen, but now … it is a good thing that I thrive on chaos. What little peace and order the five kings left us will not long survive the three queens, I fear.”

“Three queens?” She did not understand.

Nor did Petyr choose to explain.(AFfC, Alayne II)

Baelish never explains his cryptic remark and fans have theorized a lot about who the three queens that Baelish refers to are. Cersei is certainly one of them but few people consider Sansa as a candidate as one of those queens. However, it is important to consider the context for this remark of his. We learn that Baelish’s plans for Sansa include a marriage between her and Harry the Heir as a means to use the Knights of the Vale to retake the North. That would put both Sansa and him in open rebellion to the Iron Throne - and it very likely that he plans to set up Sansa as Queen in the North as a step for him to realize his ambitions of power, which very likely would be him taking the Iron Throne for himself - as in the show.

The show also subtly hints at Sansa as Queen in various ways. Fx in season 3, a very subtle hint that may be foreshadowing is introduced in the very first episode - after Sansa has been set aside - when Ros tells Shae this:

This is a particularly interesting detail because it invokes an age-old tradition of announcing royal births with both a series of gun salutes as well as specially composed bell peals. It is a tradition that is still in use in the United Kingdom where the birth of Prince George in 2013 was celebrated with a special bell peal that lasted 3 hours! (x).  

Thus, Sansa’s birth was celebrated as if she were a royal princess, which is a curious detail since the Starks have not been Kings in the North for several centuries.

This is a detail that was invented for the show - and I cannot help but wonder if this apparently innocuous detail might be a piece of cleverly hidden foreshadowing of Sansa’s eventual fate. She may end up becoming Queen, which isn’t a far-fetched idea since queenship is a theme the runs through her narrative arc in the books - even after she’s no longer betrothed to Joffrey. Sansa is, in many respects, a foil to Cersei and it is through Cersei that she learns how NOT to be a Queen! Neither should we forget that in the moment of crisis during the Battle of Blackwater, it was Sansa who stepped up and performed Cersei’s role when the latter abandoned her duties. (x)

Furthermore, in season 7, the show subtly compares and contrasts Cersei, Daenerys and Sansa as rulers - even though Sansa is not a queen. This is done both through the similarities in their costuming but also through a direct comparison of their actions. Cersei’s forces seizes the food of the Reach in order to feed her allies and Daenerys burns all of these very important resources even though she cannot feed her armies. In contrast, we see Sansa collecting the foodstuffs of the North at Winterfell in order to feed both her people but also any refuges that might seek shelter there. However, she also expressly states that if there’s any surplus food (or if they don’t need it), then it is to be returned to the people who delivered it. Thus, we see Cersei stealing food to prop up her own rule, we see Daenerys destroy food even though she needs it - and in contrast we see Sansa securing food through voluntary donations and planning for it to be returned if it turns out that they won’t need it.

So even though Sansa is not technically a Queen (and we actually see her refuse the Crown of the North when it is indirectly offered), she acts like one - and she’s the one who is shown as a better leader that the two rival Queens in the South.

Thank you for the ask and sorry about the late answer.

[agirlinhell]

OKAY SO I’VE HAD A LOT OF ASOIAF / GOT RP BLOGS FOLLOWING ME LATELY AND I JUST HAVE TO LET YOU ALL KNOW THAT CLEMENTINE HAS SEVERAL VERSES, IN DIFFERENT ERAS AND IN DIFFERENT FACTIONS OF THE SERIES. I mostly follow book canon, as I’ve read all the books and I’ve watched all the seasons, but I am also show friendly, as well. I will be using Amandla Stenberg, Nyane Lebajoa and Indya Marie as her faceclaims. As this is A Song Of Ice And Fire / Game Of Thrones, there will naturally be explicit and mature content in a variety of different ways. She is bisexual, as in canon. There are six verses in all.

Although, they are not officially in my verses quite yet, allow me to elaborate them for you. Long post under the cut!

#1: Clementine is a skinchanger and a spearwife beyond the Wall whilst possessing greensight. She’s lived among the Free Folk all her life and was born near Hardhome. When she and the entire horde of the Free Folk are being driven south by the Others. she’s actually quite capable of defending herself even for a small girl, she’s taken out a few lone wights by herself. Clementine had faced the wrath of the likes of rangers of the Night’s Watch, slavers from the eastern cities, Hornfoots and Nightrunners, men and women of the Frozen Shore, men of the Ice-river clans who feasted on human flesh, snowbears, shadowcats and even other wargs. But worst of all the enemies she had fought were the wights, those moving corpses who only devoured the flesh of the living without a second thought. The girl had seen the likes of giants and mammoths, and she could see through the eyes of the beasts of the land and the birds in the skies, things that the girls of the south would hardly begin to imagine. Yet, at only age sixteen, she had managed to survive long enough to make it to The Wall. She wonders what the lands are like Beyond The Wall, survival is all she’s ever known. When the Free Folk are brought south of The Wall, Clementine is being taught how to read by Shireen Baratheon and the maesters at Castle Black. She has a shadowcat for a companion and can warg into it and take over its body as its host. The Free Folk both fear her and respect her, and several of the men of the Night’s Watch can say the same. Some think that she is descended from the Children of The Forest because of her golden eyes, but that is up to speculation. To put it very simply, this is her verse for any muses from the North or Beyond The Wall. I can easily see her being tangled up with Melisandre or the Boltons, perhaps she can possibly help Jeyne Poole escape Winterfell? She is age sixteen in this verse. This verse will be tagged as v; I MAY BE YOUR PRISONER BUT I AM A FREE WOMAN. ( A SONG OF ICE & FIRE / GAME OF THRONES. || THE FREE FOLK. )

#2: Clementine is a Princess of the Summer Isles. She serves Queen Margaery Tyrell as a lady in-waiting while serving as an intermediary between the Iron Throne and the Summer Isles as a princess of one of the isles and is one of their representatives so that trade between Westeros and the Summer Isles can continue further. Clementine is of Rhoynar, Summer Islander and Naathi descent. From a young age, she had been taught how to fight with a spear and shoot with her goldenheart bow and arrows that could pierce through even steel plate, as in the Summer Isles, women are considered equal to men. At age sixteen, she is well versed in many languages, the arts of love, music, song, dance and war. She leaves the Summer Isles on a swan ship to The Reach to broker a deal with the Hightowers at Oldtown at a young age while accompanied by an entourage of her own, and Alerie Hightower selected her to be one of ladies in waiting at Highgarden. Clem travels with Margaery and her relatives all throughout the events of The War of The Five Kings until they reach King’s Landing. When Margaery is betrothed to Joffrey Baratheon, Clementine is introduced in court, as well, and is seen as an exotic beauty by much of the court. She gets a lot of requests for marriage or simply sharing her bed from many lords of Westeros, including but not limited to Jhalabar Xho, Aurane Waters, Willam Wythers, Perros Blackmont and Daemon Sand, because many want the riches and treasures that the Summer Isles provide, and Clementine is an attractive young lady, something she will use to her advantage in court. ( **Note: this is what happens in my portrayal, if you portray any of these muses, this does not need to happen. )

She wears the feather capes that the Summer Islanders are known for and her loose silken diaphanous gowns from Naath, her hair is adorned with a myriad of butterflies and flowers in her hair and dressed in brilliantly colored feathers of exotic birds, silks, seashells and gemstones - rubies, sapphires, emeralds and pearls, along with the gowns and Myrish lace that Westeros provides when serving Queen Margaery Tyrell. Yet her heart always lies with her home. Afterward, she intends to venture to the Temples of Love in the isles and allow others to share her bed, as was expected of her and all other individuals on the isles, male or female, lowborn or highborn, as a way of worshiping her gods. She keeps to the gods of the Summer Isles and the Lord of Harmony of Naath and she’s been rumored to practice water magic, but this is debatable. She will protect her Queen with her life if need be.

Her fellow companions at court are Megga, Alla, Elinor and Leona Tyrell, Margaery’s cousins, Alyn Ambrose, Alysanne Bulwer, Meredyth Crane, Alyce Graceford, Taena Merryweather of Myr, Leonette Fossoway, Mira Forrester, Sara Durwell / Flowers and Septa Nysterica, a sister of the Faith. Through it all, even though she finds King’s Landing fascinating at first, she grows to yearn for her motherland… and learns that the capital is a pit of vipers. In A Feast For Crows, Clementine is accused of lewdness, fornication and high treason by The Faith and is arrested for crimes she did not commit. In a Dance With Dragons, Clementine’s currently awaiting her trial alongside the queen’s within the Sept of Baelor. To put it very simply, this verse is for King’s Landing and any shenanigans that may occur there, and it will be tagged as: v; YOU SHOULD SEE ME IN A CROWN. ( A SONG OF ICE & FIRE / GAME OF THRONES. || KING'S LANDING. )

#3:Clementine is a dragonrider, sorceress and noblewoman of the Valyrian Freehold, a daughter of the ancient House Targaryen, of the union of Aenar Targaryen and a princess from the Summer Isles. Keeping to the Gods of Old Valyria and the Deities of the Summer Isles, she finds herself praying to both deities, never truly having a preference of any of them over the other. One of the most striking things about her physical appearance are her violet eyes and her silver hair from her Valyrian ancestry, yet her skin tone is purely Summer Islander. It seems her lady mother won the genetics lottery. Clem has a good standing relationship with her half-siblings and most notably in Daenys Targaryen who would later to be known as Daenys the Dreamer renowned for foreseeing the Doom of Valyria twelve years prior to it’s fiery downfall. Clementine is dragonrider to the dragoness Zalliel. They practically grew up together from the time she was only an infant girl in her crib, as she’d been holding her egg to keep it warm. Zalliel, like her rider, had a thirst for adventure and freedom. Although not the warlike type, the dragoness would fight to the very bitter end to protect her rider. Her lord father, Aenar Targaryen, had paid a fine amount of gold for one of the best blacksmiths in the Freehold to make his youngest daughter a Valyrian steel sword, as Clementine had a intrigue for blades and the art of war, despite her calm and gentle exterior. Her lord father always knew that she had a fire burning in her heart. Clementine named this blade Dark Sister and so when she soared into the battlefield on dragonback, she would be seen fighting with it, as well as using one of her lady mother’s goldenheart bows and arrows. Clementine is a warrior through and through, and the blade has passed down to the future generations of House Targaryen, such as Queen Visenya Targaryen, Maegor Targaryen, Prince Daemon Targaryen and Lord Brynden Rivers, to which the sword is now lost to history.

Clementine was born - and grew up - within Valyria, and magic was at its height in the capital and in all the known world. At its apex Valyria was the greatest city in the known world, the center of civilization. Within its shining walls, twoscore rival houses vied for power and glory in court and council, rising and falling in an endless, subtle, oftsavage struggle for dominance. She enjoyed much of her childhood and adolescence there, loving to soar around the seemingly topless towers in the city, or spending time with her family in Lys. She kept monkeys, apes, panther cubs, and parrots from the Summer Isles as pets. She was taught in the arts of love and war, in many languages and was taught how in the magical arts by several sorcerers and mages hired by her lord father and lady mother. She is of Summer Islander, Naathi, Rhoynar and Valyrian descent, and was a member of the Young Dragons faction of Valyria. House Targaryen at the time was not considered a powerful house, compared to the forty other noble families of Valyria, but Clem cared little for court politics, but she was seen as a beauty amongst the dragonlords. In the Freehold, dragons were usually tamed with dragonhorns, sorcery and whips, but Clementine disliked the cruelty and thus attached herself to Zalliel in other ways, by way of kindness and companionship. After Daenys the Dreamer prophesied that Valyria would be destroyed, Aenar sold his holdings in the Valyrian Freehold and the Lands of the Long Summer, and moved with all his family, wives, wealth, slaves, and dragons, with House Velaryon and House Celtigar following behind them to Dragonstone, a bleak island citadel beneath the Dragonmont, a smoking mountain in the narrow sea. The Targaryens were far from the most powerful of the dragonlords, and their rivals in Valyria saw their flight as an act of cowardice. However, because Aenar had moved his family away from Valyria, the Targaryens were the only dragonlords to survive the Doom in 114 BC and the following Century of Blood. 

Clementine, however, was unhappy with the whole ordeal, feeling as if her entire future was being torn away to rot and sit at the very westernmost precipice of the Valyrian Freehold - Dragonstone, especially near a place as foreign and strange as Westeros. She helped her family with their affairs in Essos, most predominantly in the wars of the Free Cities. After staying for a few years at Dragonstone, deciding to rebel against her father and refusing to stay any longer in the bleak citadel before she withered away, took all of her things and her dragon and soared away from Dragonstone to travel the known world. What happens to her afterward is still debated by the maesters of the Citadel to this day, and her adventures vary depending on the tale. Some say she had affairs with several Westerosi lords - and even ladies, others say she eventually united the Summer Isles under her rule - something that was uncommon amongst the islanders, while alternate sources claim she was a consort of a YiTish god-emperor. What is known, however, is that she’s had many lovers - both men and women - and several adventures in her life and eventually returned to Dragonstone by way of a ship and brought Dark Sister back to the ancestral home it belonged to, and that she lived a very long and natural life. To put it very simply, this verse is for any pre-ASOIAF / GOT characters before Aegon’s Conquest. The tag for this verse is:  v; I AM THE DRAGON'S DAUGHTER. ( A SONG OF ICE & FIRE / GAME OF THRONES. || THE VALYRIAN FREEHOLD. )

( Note: Slavery, incest and polygamy are all a part of Valyrian culture, especially amongst the nobles. Her father had many wives and Clementine\s half siblings, as was common in Valyria, married and had children together. Incest is common among the noble families of Valyria and even then they’re often political with no romance involved and Clementine is a noblewoman, so it’s entirely possible she may have been betrothed. Slavery exists in this time period and Valyria profited off of slavery. Please keep in mind that I tolerate NONE of these things as a mun, but it is something that does happen and I will not be sugarcoating it in my portrayal, but I will always tag it when mentioned. )

#4: Clementine is a lady of Dornish, Summer Islander, Naathi and Rhoynar descent and owes her allegiance to House Martell.  Although mostly underdeveloped in comparison to the rest of her verses, Clementine was born and grew up in the Summer Isles before being sent to Dorne as an older child as a negotiation agreement for trade, and she grows fond of Dorne while staying there. Eventually, she works together with Arianne Martell, the Sand Snakes and Arianne’s entourage to crown Myrcella Baratheon as true Queen of the Seven Kingdoms by Dornish law. In A Storm of Swords, she attends Ellaria Sand and Oberyn Martell and saw the consequences of the trial by combat go horribly wrong, with the Red Viper’s death having a critical blow on the Dornish. During the later parts of the books, she stays back in Dorne and attends Doran Martell with anything he might need, all while taking care of Princess Myrcella. To put it simply, this verse is mostly for interacting with characters from Dorne and mostly southern Westeros. The tag for this verse is v; SHE WHISPERS INTO THE EARS OF MEN. ( A SONG OF ICE & FIRE / GAME OF THRONES. || DORNE. )

#5: Clementine is a Princess of the Summer Isles, and was born and grew up in the isles. She was sent by her lord father to negotiate with the Free Cities on matters of trade... only to be kidnapped by Basilisk Isles raiders and to be sold as a slave in Meereen, first as a female fighter in the fighting pits, before being noticed by some of the Masters and being taken to the Temple of the Graces to be trained as a Red Grace - all of this against her will. When Daenerys Targaryen enters the scene, however, Clementine is one of the first women to raise the sword for the Dragon Queen. Daenerys frees her from her bondage as a slave and a Red Grace and Clementine has been loyal to her - and her entourage - since. This verse is used to interact with any muses of Slaver’s Bay or any individuals who are aligned with House Targaryen in the present time. It will be tagged as v; I'D RATHER DIE ON MY FEET THAN LIVE ON MY KNEES. ( A SONG OF ICE & FIRE / GAME OF THRONES. || SLAVER'S BAY. )

#6: Clementine is a young lady trained to become the next Black Pearl of Braavos, one of the most proeminent courtesans of the city.  From a very young age, she was educated and trained in various cultural pursuits such as art, music, poetry, calligraphy, song, dance, history, literature and flower and fan language. She’s an educated girl of good social standing, who is oft present at festivals and entertainments, and is hired as a mourner at funerals. She, like her lady mother, enjoys high status and is famous worldwide. She, like every other courtesan, has her own barge and servants to work them, as slavery does not exist in Braavos. Her beauty has inspired many a song and she is showered with gifts from goldsmiths and craftsmen beg for her custom. Nobility and rich merchants pay her large amounts of money to appear alongside them at events, merchant princes pay royal ransom to have her on their arms at balls, feasts and mummer shows and bravos are known to kill each other in her name.

She is famous, respected and wealthy and enjoy a kind of celebrity status as well as a certain kind of mystique, and she is cultured and beautiful. She sleeps on rose petals and wears silken skirts that rustle when she walks, and great lords beggar themselves for her maiden’s blood. She can trace her descent through the female line to the daughter of Bellegere Otherys, a pirate queen who was the first Black Pearl, and King Aegon IV Targaryen, and thus the earlier generations of the Targaryen Dynasty as a whole, as well as having other bloodlines such as having royal descent of both a Princess of the Summer Isles and a Sealord of Braavos. She dresses in charcoal grey, purple, blues so dark that are almost black, and blacks as dark as moonlight. Clementine is age sixteen and is still in the process of following her mother’s footsteps. This verse is used for muses of Western Essos, moreso the Free Cities and particularly Braavos, but Clementine can easily travel elsewhere. This verse is tagged as v; THE BLACK PEARL. ( A SONG OF ICE & FIRE / GAME OF THRONES. || BRAAVOS. )

[howlandreads]

A Queen For Crisis

While re-reading Sansa’s Blackwater chapters, I’m reminded of just how suited for leadership she really is.  Her aptitude for the responsibilities of ruling can be seen throughout the books - her time acting as functioning Lady of the Eyrie especially, but I think the Battle of the Blackwater is the first time we really see it.

What I really love about these chapters is how they show what an instinct it is for Sansa to care for others.  She owes nothing to these people who have beheaded her father, waged war on her family, and are now holding her as a political prisoner, but still she finds herself doing her best to make the most of the situation, helping others and easing their anxieties about the battle outside.

As the chapter unfolds, Sansa becomes more and more aware of Cersei’s preoccupation with concern for Joffrey and inability to handle the situation, while also becoming more and more aware that at some point someone is going to have to take charge and do something to calm the chaos creeping into the hold from the battle.  Each mistake Cersei makes, Sansa is there to observe and think to herself that she would do things differently if she were Queen.  I love the contrast GRRM brings between these two.  Cersei views herself as a prisoner of the patriarchy, and has allowed this fact to turn her cruel and bitter.  Sansa, on the other hand, has taken the gender expectations forced upon her by society and used them for the best.  She’s aware of what is expected of her, and embraces it, constantly reminding herself that courtesy is a Lady’s armor.  She was taught that a Lady should be kind and gentle, courteous above all else, and instead of letting this hold her back, she uses it as her strength.  While Cersei has left an awful impression with most of the highborn ladies, Sansa has left the impression that she is capable and competent. Though Cersei thinks this makes Sansa soft and weak, she’ll come to regret this when all she has is enemies while Sansa seems to make allies wherever she goes.  This quote from Sansa VI really emphasizes her deliberate decision to be a more respectable ruler than Cersei:

"’I will remember, Your Grace,’ said Sansa, though she had always heard that love was a surer route to the people's loyalty than fear. If I am ever a queen, I'll make them love me.”

- Sansa VI, A Clash of Kings

The next things I love about Sansa’s Blackwater chapters is how they emphasize her natural composure in stressful situations.  Though she has more to be concerned about than any of the other guests in Maegor’s Holdfast (her brother has declared war on those holding her captive, she knows Ilyn Payne will kill her if Stannis succeeds, she has a drunk Cersei berating her) she’s still the most composed of anyone there.  Not only is she holding herself together, she’s helping others as well.   Even when it’s literally Sansa’s life on the line, she chooses to take charge and comfort others instead of pleading for herself:

“Should she stay here, or run after the queen and plead for her life? She never knew why she got to her feet, but she did. 

‘Don't be afraid,’ she told them loudly.”

- Sansa VII, A Clash of Kings

The last character trait that GRRM chose to focus in on during Sansa’s Blackwater arc is her unrelenting kindness.  Though the other ASOIAF have interesting character traits, Sansa is one of the few that has simple kindness as a consistent staple of her character.  

The first moment where her kindness is clearly seen is when she helps Lancel, despite having no reason to:

“Lancel was one of them, yet somehow she still could not bring herself to wish him dead.”

- Sansa VII, A Clash of Kings

There is no other reason to help Lancel other than Sansa’s good nature.  This is the type of nature Westeros needs in a ruler.  After years and years of selfish Kings and Queens, the people of Westeros really need someone who will for once put their well being above personal ambition.

The next moment where Sansa’s kindness is really seen is the close of her Blackwater chapters when she says goodbye to the Hound.  She always treats the people around her with empathy, even when they’re behaving horribly towards her.  Despite the fact that the Hound is acting physically threatening, she’s still concerned with how afraid he must be because of the fires burning just outside:

“Some instinct made her lift her hand and cup his cheek with her fingers.”

- Sansa VII, A Clash of Kings

I especially love GRRM’s use of instinct in this quote.  For Sansa, kindness really is an instinct.  After all the selfish kings and queens Westeros has had, the people need a Queen who’s willing to put their well-being above her own personal ambition.  Sansa’s natural good nature mixed with her time spent in King’s Landing and with Littlefinger learning political savvy, makes it seem like GRRM has been crafting Sansa an arc of slowly becoming capable of leading the North or even Westeros.

The last thing I love about these chapters is how clear GRRM makes it that Sansa’s kindness does not make her soft or weak.  Throughout these chapters Sansa constantly views her compassion as making her stupid, since that’s what Cersei and Joffrey constantly tell her, but it’s actually a brave and moral choice she’s made to stay true to her good character even in the face of her captors’ cruelty.  Her kindness also stands in opposition to what Cersei and Joffrey wish she would turn into, which makes it not only moral but also an act of defiance against the will of the Lannisters.  I think GRRM is trying to make the point to readers that it’s the villains who keep telling Sansa she’s stupid and weak, and that this couldn’t be further from the truth:

“I am soft and weak and stupid, just as Joffrey says.”

- Sansa VII, A Clash of Kings

Sansa is at her best in a crisis, and this is exactly the type of ruler Westeros needs.

[iwanttostayanonymoustoo]

Thank you for the detailed reply! This is Anon here - the ask wordlimit is too short so I'm replying via reblogging (I'm fairly new to tumblr so please let me know if it does not follow tumblr/ the fandoms' etiquette :))

For aegon, I think it's reasonable for him to hate Rhaenyra at that point, as you mentioned there's already so much bloodshed between the two houses and Aegon lost a large part of his family to the Blacks. I would definitely execute Rhaenyra too if I were in his position. However, feeding your enemy to dragon is another level of cruelty, which I don't think is justified. In the books Rhaenyra showed no sign of wanting to feed her enemy to the dragon - to be fair, Daemon might, perhaps; but not Rhaenyra. One clear evidence is she kept Alicent alive after all these time - which to me shows she might not even want to be a kinslayer, let alone perform such cruel executions. Because if Aegon can blame Rhaenyra for Blood and Cheese (of course without a reader's perspective he has no way of knowing it's actually Daemon), then Rhaenyra is also in every right to blame Alicent for all her family member's murder. And even if she did want to execute Aegon, for political reasons if not for revenge, I wouldn't think she would do it in the same way as were done to her.

Also for him recognizing Aegon the younger as heir, if I remember correctly it was a term set out by the Sea Snake - Alicent were "outraged" and had to be persuaded by Larys to concede. In fact, on the same day "King Aegon II preparing once again to behead his cousin Baela", very much showing the choice of heir is not a sign of him putting the past behind him, but only a reluctant political concession in exchange for the support of the Velaryons

For the iron throne. Yes I agree Rhaenyra is by no means a good leader during her time in king's landing - I would have stood by the people to oust her too. But I doubt the other way around also stand - the throne cut both Maegor (who is a terrible leader) and Viserys (who is a mediocre leader), can we then deduce Aegon II is a good leader? The F&B itself decreed it to be a "sad" reign.

For aemond, the ask had a word limit, so I didn't manage to mention the beheading of the house of strong, and the burning of the riverlands. But yeah, there's that…

For Lucerys's death, I do agree F&B's narration is sometimes unreliable, but this is all we've got (and true to both Team Black and Team Green) and everything else tbh is up to us to interprete. Don't get me wrong, I do think people are free to have their own interpretations and "both sides lost control of their dragon" were definitely a popular one, but then we lose any common ground of discussion as anyone is free to interprete everything in every way possible.

What we do have in common, however, are what is presented by the books. And in the books the only thing we know is Aegon killed his sister in a cruel manner; Aemond killed his nephew in a cruel manner. All the rest are interpretations.

Nonetheless, I'm not trying to defend Book!Team Black by criticizing Team Green. Rhaenyra, Daemon, all have their own faults (I can never forgive Daemon for Blood and Cheese, for example; and I don't support what Rhaenyra did in Kings landing at all). But I do think the Blacks not being great people (in the books) does not absolve the Greens of any wrongs on their part.

Hope I did not sound too defensive (if yes I do apologize! English is not my first language so I might sound rather blunt). I'm not trying to argue, but I do want to discuss Book!Team Greens with someone who likes them, and understand my own biasness if their is any :) As a book reader I generally support Rhaenyra's claims to the throne (from a feminist perspective, although I know she probably only wanted to bend the rules for her alone and not fighting for women's rights), but don't really root for any side as I think they all have done terrible things in the name of war.

Thank you again for the great story of stormbreak tho - everyone is a darling and had so much depth. This is definitely one of my favourite version of "interpretation" of GRRM's history <3

Hi hi! (Before I begin I wanted to say I really love Stormbreak <3 Your writing is so powerful!) I have read your reply for anon on why you are a Book!Alicent apologist - as a book reader I'm not fond of her but I do concede to some of your points. However, wondering how you find Book!Aegon or Aemond? Aegon didn't rape, which is a good thing, but he also fed his sister alive to his dragon. And Aemond chose to pursue and kill Lucerys out of his free will (and not because he can't control Vhagar)

oh yeah i very much have thoughts about book aemond and aegon! let me say a few things here:

for aegon, there are still some allegations of him touching young girls inappropriately, though it's ofc always hard to tell with f&b what is meant to count as the accurate version, but i don't wanna ignore that since a commenter pointed it out.

as far as him feeding rhaenyra to his dragon, think of it this way: by this point in time, rhaenyra has had his six-year-old son slaughtered, has driven his wife insane to the point of suicide, was the reason his brother (aemond) was killed, and STILL poses a threat to his remaining family's lives. i would've fed her to sunfyre too at this point. if the roles were reversed, rhaenyra would have also done the same, and i would've also defended it.

i think aegon's willingness to keep aegon the younger alive and even to install him as his heir points to how willing he was to let bygones be bygones at the end of it all. he didn't want to punish baby aegon for who his mother was, and i think that's fairly honorable.

there's also the fact that the iron throne never cut aegon, which i think is so interesting. grrm makes a point of showing how when people are bad leaders (think viserys, think maegor towards the end of his life, and think rhaenyra towards the end of her life) the throne will reject them by cutting them. as a side note, i think rhaenyra would've been fine if she hadn't been so traumatized and twisted by the dance, i don't think she's inherently a bad ruler.

as for aemond, the book actually leaves it up to interpretation! as the accounts point out: no one knows exactly what happened up there. we know that both dragons took flight, and only vhagar and aemond returned, and that he did have lucerys's eyes. even the details we have, remember, can't be taken as actual fact, since the entire point of f&b is that history remembers things incorrectly. but still if you take them at face value, we don't know what actually happened up there, which is part of why the show didn't actually contradict the book with the season one finale. it simply added details the book did not show.

of course i'll always be the first to admit that i have a habit of trying to view characters from both sides in better lights than they are possibly meant to be perceived. but i still hold myself to using critical thinking and crafting actual, defensible arguments. i think part of why the unreliability of f&b is so interesting to me is because in many ways it doesn't rule out the possibilities of characters being actually not that evil, even while trying to make you think they are 100% evil (again this is true for members of team black as well imo and especially the women, not just for aegon and aemond). it has very clear agendas but doesn't always have evidence to back them up.

[dachi-chan25]

Aemon would have totally been the best Targ name for Jon. For one thing, there's his connection to Maester Aemon (his great-uncle) and his love for Aemon the Dragonknight. Secondly, Aemon is obviously a fantasy play on Eamonn which means "wealthy protector." Much cooler-sounding than Aegon, which was the name of some of the WORST Targ Kings in Westeros history.

Annony you are so right, but let’s see what Egg Kings ever did cuz recipts:

–Aegon V: Aka Egg, He was actually very Good with the smallfolk, but Highlords did not like this at all (cuz they were assholes) oh and also he was against Targ incest! thus planned to marry his children with the heirs of houses of Westeros, very good Job Eggy! Oh but wait his children pulled all a Rhaegar on him and decided none of them would marry their intended: Prince Duncan married Jenny of Oldstones offending Lord Lyonnel Baratheon, Prince Jahaerys and Princess Shaera ran away together and got married in secret offending Houses Tyrell and Tully and Prince Daeron broke his bethrotal with Olenna Redwayne (yup the Queen of Thorns herself) cuz he was hella gay. Egg dealt with all this stuff as best as he could but later he got obssesed with bringing dragons back so the lords would accept the reforms he wanted to make (reforms? good! scaring/threatening people with dragons to do what you want? Bad) and in his dumbassery he burned Summerhall in an experiment to hatch dragon eggs and died.

“ All three of the sons of the fifth Aegon had wed for love in defiance of their father’s wishes. And because that unlikely monarch had followed his heart when he chose his queen, he allowed his sons to have their way, making bitter enemies when he might have made fast friends. Treason and turmoil followed, as night follows day, ending at Summerhall in sorcery, fire and grief.”

–Aegon IV: Aka Supreme Fuckboy, supposedly he was super hot when he was young and married Princess Naerys (yeah this is the dude Aemon the Dragonknight hated for humilliating Naerys) but being a fuckboy he had lots of mistresses, not only that but instead of filling his court with good advisors he brought people who amused or flattered him and ladies that let him had his way with them. Dude was super gross and corrupted, ended up being morbidly obese for his excess in everything. His final act ro see the world burn was to legitimize his many bastards (going as far as to give the legendary valaryan steel sword Blackfyre to his bastard son Daeron, which was considered súper offensive) provoking the Blckfyre rebellion.

“ He is generally considered to be one of the worst kings in the history of Westeros, and is dubbed “Aegon the Unworthy” in the face of his excess and misrule.”

–Aegon III: aka Emo boy. He was the son of Rhaenyra, yes the one from Dance of Dragons. The events of said Targ Civil War let him completely depressed. Since Aegon came to the Iron Throne aged eleven, several regents and Hands ruled in his name at the beginning of his reign. Numerous political schemes, plots, and assassinations happened in those five years as the regents fought one another for political power. Basically the only thing that made dude happy was his brother and Hand Viserys return (he thought him dead) but still Egg the third could not be assed to rule, and Viserys gave very stupid advice like bringing mages from Essos in am attempt to hatch dragon eggs to stop people from calling him the Dragonbane, basically did nothing.

“He was regarded as a broken king who ruled over a broken reign. His brother Viserys did the majority of the ruling as his Hand. Aegon was melancholy to the end of his days, found pleasure in almost nothing, and locked himself in his room to brood for days on end. He likewise came to dislike being touched.”

–Aegon II: aka worst Uncle ever. So daddy Viserys had appointed big sis Rhaenyra his heir and future Queen of Westeros, but Egg the second’s momma did not like it, much less cuz Rhaenyra named her son Aegon (would you look at that a conflict caused cuz two Princes fit to inherit the throne had the same name? Who would have believed it?) and took it as a slight, yeah so as soon as daddy died he refused to accept his sister as Queen and took up arms with support from the Hightowers mainly and other people, Dance of Dragons was an awful bloody war that ended up with the extintion of Dragons and the deaths of both Aegon and Rhaenyra. Also he made his dragon eat his sister (he was rather fond to feed people to his dragon) in front of his nephew and kept him captive (“there can only be one Aegon”- Aegon II probably at some point).

“ Despite being considered as part of the Targaryen dynasty, unlike Rhaenyra who would be remembered as a usurper, history would not be kind on Aegon (though history is equally unkind to his half sister, Rhaenyra). In the tome Lives of Four Kings, Grandmaestar Kaeth would describe Aegon II as “grasping”, and comparing him with some of the worst Targaryen kings: the weakling Aenys and the tyrannical Maegor the Cruel.”

–Aegon I: Aka Original Trashcan. Came from Valarya to rain fire and blood to people who wished not to subject to him and give him all the power of a land he did not knew, his idea of mercy was not burning you if you kneeled, but he did not like violence and did not participate in tourneys OwO (fuck him) basically trash, the worst, nobody wanted him to unite the seven kingdoms, they were fine before you asshole. Bullying people to give you their homes and calling it a mercy just cuz he had dragons. Really a punk ass bitch.

“Although his reign had largely been peaceful, many of his subjects desired to go back to the days of old, when there were still seven Kingdoms. Others wanted vengeance for the deaths of their loved ones in wars, and yet others saw the Targaryens as abominations.Because of this, the reigns of both Aenys and Maegor were tumulus, and filled with battles and chaos.”

Bonus:

Rhaegar (to Elia) : Aegon. What better name for a king?

Me: *looks at the camera like I’m in the office*